New Kid In Town

[Shoes]

The Cleveland Browns have hired their next head coach, Kevin Stefanski.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/12/browns-hire-kevin-stefanski-as-head-coach/

[Mojouw]

So Chubb on HB dives when down 3 scores in the 4th quarter? LOL.

It will be interesting to see where Stefanski takes the offense. Lots of simalarities in personnel between the Vikings and Browns.

[Fire Goodell]

Who will be their coach in 2021?

[AtlantaDan]

So Chubb on HB dives when down 3 scores in the 4th quarter? LOL.

Yep

That hiring may get renewed scrutiny, given the performance of the Vikings’ offense in that loss in San Francisco, and especially given the fourth quarter play calling, when the Vikings continued to attempt to establish the run even when they were facing a 17-point deficit.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/12/browns-hire-kevin-stefanski-as-head-coach/

But the important hiring criteria was that Stefanski actually called the plays in Minnesota, as opposed to the superior offense in KC where coordinator Eric Bieniemy does not.

So too bad for Bieniemy - must have play calling experience - unless you were Joe Judge in this hiring cycle and the clear benefits of hiring someone who "preaches old-school values" and was being pursued by the legendary Mississippi State program outweighed the less than optimal performance of his position players in his first year as receivers coach for the Pats

https://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/joe-judge-introduced-giants-1.40441772

Cannot imagine why anyone has issues with how this has turned out and would believe they "know you have no shot"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/10/black-coaches-are-losing-patience-with-nfls-hiring-process-you-know-you-have-no-shot/

[Mojouw]

Yep

That hiring may get renewed scrutiny, given the performance of the Vikings’ offense in that loss in San Francisco, and especially given the fourth quarter play calling, when the Vikings continued to attempt to establish the run even when they were facing a 17-point deficit.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/12/browns-hire-kevin-stefanski-as-head-coach/

But the important hiring criteria was that Stefanski actually called the plays in Minnesota, as opposed to the superior offense in KC where coordinator Eric Bieniemy does not.

So too bad for Bieniemy - must have play calling experience - unless you were Joe Judge in this hiring cycle and the clear benefits of hiring someone who "preaches old-school values" and was being pursued by the legendary Mississippi State program outweighed the less than optimal performance of his position players in his first year as receivers coach for the Pats

https://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/joe-judge-introduced-giants-1.40441772

Cannot imagine why anyone has issues with how this has turned out and would believe they "know you have no shot"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/10/black-coaches-are-losing-patience-with-nfls-hiring-process-you-know-you-have-no-shot/

Rooney Rule has been turned into a joke.

What is the percentage of pro players that are black or Hispanic? White? Then do the same for coaches. Seems out of whack.

I get that you can't force teams to do things, but something seems fishy here.

[teegre]

The Browns hire Negan.

The TV series ruined that character... and now, Cleveland will do the same to this coach.

[pczach]

Rooney Rule has been turned into a joke.

What is the percentage of pro players that are black or Hispanic? White? Then do the same for coaches. Seems out of whack.

I get that you can't force teams to do things, but something seems fishy here.


At some point, doesn't it make sense to hire a young, innovative, black head coach. You see how players go play insanely hard to support black quarterbacks. Black men believe they are getting screwed out of opportunities, and they need to know that they are getting a fair shake.

If I was an owner, I'd be looking for a young, inspirational leader of men that happens to be a black man. It just makes so much sense. These guys will bust their asses to advance that cause....and rightfully so.

There are so many black players involved in the highest levels of the game. It has to happen.

[AtlantaDan]

Rooney Rule has been turned into a joke.

What is the percentage of pro players that are black or Hispanic? White? Then do the same for coaches. Seems out of whack.

I get that you can't force teams to do things, but something seems fishy here.

About 75% of players are black - 4 non-white HCs out of 32 with Ron Rivera being hired again after being fired

But Joe Judge “just has a certain presence about him” according to the Giants’ co-owner

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/sports/football/rooney-rule-nfl-coach-diversity.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

[st33lersguy]

I think it is a good hire at first glance. Lack of OC experience a concern but the way Cousins had a career year with him is a good sign. Fresh new guys I think are better than retreads

[Mojouw]

At some point, doesn't it make sense to hire a young, innovative, black head coach. You see how players go play insanely hard to support black quarterbacks. Black men believe they are getting screwed out of opportunities, and they need to know that they are getting a fair shake.

If I was an owner, I'd be looking for a young, inspirational leader of men that happens to be a black man. It just makes so much sense. These guys will bust their asses to advance that cause....and rightfully so.

Seems like a fairly obvious approach. But I'm sure it's just some sort of liberal agenda.

I've always wondered why pro sports picks old primarily white dudes to attempt to lead/relate to decades younger primarily non white dudes.

I mean I know why for many many years, but I heard racism and discrimination doesn't exist anymore.

[teegre]

I think it is a good hire at first glance. Lack of OC experience a concern but the way Cousins had a career year with him is a good sign. Fresh new guys I think are better than retreads

Was that because of him?... or, because Gary Kubiak was whispering in his ear???

[pczach]

Seems like a fairly obvious approach. But I'm sure it's just some sort of liberal agenda.

I've always wondered why pro sports picks old primarily white dudes to attempt to lead/relate to decades younger primarily non white dudes.

I mean I know why for many many years, but I heard racism and discrimination doesn't exist anymore.


Mr Rooney and the Steelers talked the talk, and then walked the walk. They probably went into their search for a head coach with a list of qualified men and were hoping someone would distinguish themselves during the interview process.

They didn't care about experience. They didn't care about skin color. They were open to the idea that a man can come into that process and transcend any predetermined opinions they had about him, and they trusted the organization to support that man in any way imaginable and knew they could lean on the good football men already within the organization to maximize that man's talents and fill in any gaps that may have been there from an experience standpoint.

In other words, they hired the best man for the job, and they knew it immediately after talking to him that he had leadership qualities and a knowledge of the game that made him the man they HAD to have.

Great leaders lead.

Mr Rooney did, and he did so by example.

He also believed in his heart that Mike Tomlin would do the same.

They walked the walk, and now more teams need to do the same.

[Mojouw]

Mr Rooney and the Steelers talked the talk, and then walked the walk. They probably went into their search for a head coach with a list of qualified men and were hoping someone would distinguish themselves during the interview process.

They didn't care about experience. They didn't care about skin color. They were open to the idea that a man can come into that process and transcend any predetermined opinions they had about him, and they trusted the organization to support that man in any way imaginable and knew they could lean on the good football men already within the organization to maximize that man's talents and fill in any gaps that may have been there from an experience standpoint.

In other words, they hired the best man for the job, and they knew it immediately after talking to him that he had leadership qualities and a knowledge of the game that made him the man they HAD to have.

Great leaders lead.

Mr Rooney did, and he did so by example.

He also believed in his heart that Mike Tomlin would do the same.

They walked the walk, and now more teams need to do the same.

Remember how it was going to be Russ Grimm?

I suspect the Rooney's made the right choice.

[pczach]

Remember how it was going to be Russ Grimm?

I suspect the Rooney's made the right choice.



No doubt.

[DesertSteel]

At some point, doesn't it make sense to hire a young, innovative, black head coach. You see how players go play insanely hard to support black quarterbacks. Black men believe they are getting screwed out of opportunities, and they need to know that they are getting a fair shake.

If I was an owner, I'd be looking for a young, inspirational leader of men that happens to be a black man. It just makes so much sense. These guys will bust their asses to advance that cause....and rightfully so.

There are so many black players involved in the highest levels of the game. It has to happen.
Browns hire Byron Leftwich in 2021.

[AtlantaDan]

Browns hire Byron Leftwich in 2021.

Needs to get non-coordinator coach for the Pats on his resume first :rolleyes:

[silver & black]

Didn't see that coming. I know a lot of Browns fans. I'm sure they won't be happy.

[86WARD]

At some point, doesn't it make sense to hire a young, innovative, black head coach. You see how players go play insanely hard to support black quarterbacks. Black men believe they are getting screwed out of opportunities, and they need to know that they are getting a fair shake.

If I was an owner, I'd be looking for a young, inspirational leader of men that happens to be a black man. It just makes so much sense. These guys will bust their asses to advance that cause....and rightfully so.

There are so many black players involved in the highest levels of the game. It has to happen.

I don’t buy it. Look at all the black NFL Head Coaches that have come and went. They didn’t bust their asses for some of those guys. A head coach is a head coach...if these guys like the guy, have a good attitude towards him and buy into the system, they’ll play hard. I don’t buy that these guys will want to promote a cause by playing hard. I mean it is possible that maybe there just hasn’t been a good candidate. Very rarely do teams go waaaaaay outside the box to find a candidate.

[pczach]

I don’t buy it. Look at all the black NFL Head Coaches that have come and went. They didn’t bust their asses for some of those guys. A head coach is a head coach...if these guys like the guy, have a good attitude towards him and buy into the system, they’ll play hard. I don’t buy that these guys will want to promote a cause by playing hard. I mean it is possible that maybe there just hasn’t been a good candidate. Very rarely do teams go waaaaaay outside the box to find a candidate.


What's way outside the box about hiring a head coach that is already a coach of some kind...and he's black?

I'm not buying that there have been no good candidates.

[tom444]

...................But I'm sure it's just some sort of liberal agenda.
............................


That, and remember, blacks can't swim.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4XUbENGaiY

[silver & black]

I just read that Stefanski agreed to turn in his game plan every week to Haslam and Depodesta...lol. What could go wrong?

[Mojouw]

What's way outside the box about hiring a head coach that is already a coach of some kind...and he's black?

I'm not buying that there have been no good candidates.

I think that it is mostly that owners are super risk averse and conservative in their decision making. They want know quantities or whatever. Look at how many guys get jobs because their old man coached. Gilbride and Fossil's kids are coaches.

It creates a closed fraternity. Once you get in, you just get recycled over and over again until your in your 70's. Then some nepotism kicks in and your kids get jobs or if not your actual kids, whatever coach or coaches you serve as a rabbi for.

Throw in the fact that the people that are doing the hiring tend to be white, generationally wealthy, old AF --- and it isn't hard to see how coaching stays pretty monochromatic.

- - - Updated - - -


That, and remember, blacks can't swim.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4XUbENGaiY

Absolutely ridiculous that this was only 50 years ago. In fairness, this dude may not have been all that inentionaly racist, just really dumb.

[AtlantaDan]

I just read that Stefanski agreed to turn in his game plan every week to Haslam and Depodesta...lol. What could go wrong?

Yeah this is going to end well

[S]ome of the candidates going through Berea found the place to have more red flags than Tiananmen Square. One big one was the, yes, level of involvement of DePodesta’s analytics team. Both Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens were basically told to have senior analyst Dave Giuliani on headsets on game day over the last four years, with Guiliani serving as a sort of game management specialist....

Another was that the head coach would have twice-weekly meetings with ownership and analytics people. In the past, the Monday meetings have taken up to half a day, and proposed Friday meetings would be for reviewing game plans.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/13/bill-cowher-jimmy-johnson-nfl-hall-of-fame-kevin-stefanski-browns-nfl-news-notes

Ex-Dodgers GM wants say in Cleveland Browns’ play-calling, reports say

In 2016, the Cleveland Browns hired Paul DePodesta as chief strategy officer. DePodesta, a former general manager of the Dodgers, (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-oct-30-sp-dodgers30-story.html) was the second-in-command in the Billy Beane-run Oakland Athletics front office that inspired the book “Moneyball.”...

Stefanski “made it clear he was willing to yield to certain DePodesta standards, such as an analytics person with a head set and access to the coaching staff on game days,” the Canton (Ohio) Repository reported.
(https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20200112/steve-doerschuk-josh-mcdaniels-wouldnrsquot-back-down-browns-owner-backed-away)
Dustin Fox, an analyst on the Browns’ broadcasts, reported on Twitter that “candidates also had to agree to turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday (https://twitter.com/DustinFox37/status/1216510921947914240), and to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2020-01-13/ex-dodgers-gm-paul-depodesta-wants-say-in-cleveland-browns-play-calling-reports-say?_amp=true

In any endeavor it's just a matter of breaking down the data to exploit market inefficiencies - that's the answer for what ails the Browns

[st33lersguy]

I just read that Stefanski agreed to turn in his game plan every week to Haslam and Depodesta...lol. What could go wrong?

Nope Cleveland won't be a threat anytime soon

[silver & black]

This sucks, to be honest. I'm not a Browns fans, but they are one of the storied teams in the league. It's just a shame that a team with such tradition and great players over many years should be a doormat in the present. I just can't wrap my head around why Haslam would put so much faith/emphasis on anylitics over raw, football knowledge/experience. I was really hoping that the Browns were on their way back. I think they are on their way back to has been status with this current hiring/srategy.

Being a Raiders fan for 52 years, I can empathise with Browns fans. As F'd up as my team is.... and Mark Davis....... I still think the Browns are in way worse shape. I really feel bad for the fans.

[silver & black]

Yeah this is going to end well

[S]ome of the candidates going through Berea found the place to have more red flags than Tiananmen Square. One big one was the, yes, level of involvement of DePodesta’s analytics team. Both Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens were basically told to have senior analyst Dave Giuliani on headsets on game day over the last four years, with Guiliani serving as a sort of game management specialist....

Another was that the head coach would have twice-weekly meetings with ownership and analytics people. In the past, the Monday meetings have taken up to half a day, and proposed Friday meetings would be for reviewing game plans.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/13/bill-cowher-jimmy-johnson-nfl-hall-of-fame-kevin-stefanski-browns-nfl-news-notes

Ex-Dodgers GM wants say in Cleveland Browns’ play-calling, reports say

In 2016, the Cleveland Browns hired Paul DePodesta as chief strategy officer. DePodesta, a former general manager of the Dodgers, (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-oct-30-sp-dodgers30-story.html) was the second-in-command in the Billy Beane-run Oakland Athletics front office that inspired the book “Moneyball.”...

Stefanski “made it clear he was willing to yield to certain DePodesta standards, such as an analytics person with a head set and access to the coaching staff on game days,” the Canton (Ohio) Repository reported.
(https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20200112/steve-doerschuk-josh-mcdaniels-wouldnrsquot-back-down-browns-owner-backed-away)
Dustin Fox, an analyst on the Browns’ broadcasts, reported on Twitter that “candidates also had to agree to turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday (https://twitter.com/DustinFox37/status/1216510921947914240), and to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2020-01-13/ex-dodgers-gm-paul-depodesta-wants-say-in-cleveland-browns-play-calling-reports-say?_amp=true

In any endeavor it's just a matter of breaking down the data to exploit market inefficiencies - that's the answer for what ails the Browns

I hear ya. Doesn't every team need a baseball guy to crunch numbers for a successful FOOTBALL team?

[Mojouw]

This sucks, to be honest. I'm not a Browns fans, but they are one of the storied teams in the league. It's just a shame that a team with such tradition and great players over many years should be a doormat in the present. I just can't wrap my head around why Haslam would put so much faith/emphasis on anylitics over raw, football knowledge/experience. I was really hoping that the Browns were on their way back. I think they are on their way back to has been status with this current hiring/srategy.

Being a Raiders fan for 52 years, I can empathise with Browns fans. As F'd up as my team is.... and Mark Davis....... I still think the Browns are in way worse shape. I really feel bad for the fans.

Owners LOVE analytics because you can quantify and categorize everything just like they do with their businesses. This, then, allows them to become involved with the football side of things without having to learn all that much.

I strongly believe analytics have a productive and useful place in the NFL and teams are going to find innovative ways to use them.

This, does not sound like that. It sounds like meddling by an ego driven owner.

[silver & black]

Owners LOVE analytics because you can quantify and categorize everything just like they do with their businesses. This, then, allows them to become involved with the football side of things without having to learn all that much.

I strongly believe analytics have a productive and useful place in the NFL and teams are going to find innovative ways to use them.

This, does not sound like that. It sounds like meddling by an ego driven owner.

I agree. Who else do we know like this???? Maybe Romo could shed a little light...lol.

[GoSlash27]

I think that it is mostly that owners are super risk averse and conservative in their decision making. They want know quantities or whatever. Look at how many guys get jobs because their old man coached. Gilbride and Fossil's kids are coaches.

It creates a closed fraternity. Once you get in, you just get recycled over and over again until your in your 70's. Then some nepotism kicks in and your kids get jobs or if not your actual kids, whatever coach or coaches you serve as a rabbi for.

Throw in the fact that the people that are doing the hiring tend to be white, generationally wealthy, old AF --- and it isn't hard to see how coaching stays pretty monochromatic.

I don't buy it. I think that while a disproportionately high percentage of black youth pursue a career in football as players, far fewer pursue a career in coaching. I believe in hiring the most qualified applicant, period. I don't believe in advancing one applicant over the other due to race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

[GoSlash27]

What is the percentage of pro players that are black or Hispanic? White? Then do the same for coaches. Seems out of whack.

I get that you can't force teams to do things, but something seems fishy here.
What is the percentage of electronics assemblers that are women? Then do the same for engineers and technicians. Seems out of whack, but it's not. While men and women are hired to do assembly work in roughly equal numbers, more women tend to survive the training and weeding out process because they're better at the job than men in general. Women, OTOH, rarely get into STEM. It's not that they're excluded (colleges and companies are bending over backwards to encourage women to do it), they're just plain not interested.
It's frustrating because we're suffering an engineer shortage, but what are ya gonna do? :noidea: You can't put a gun to their heads and *force* them into STEM.

[tom444]

What is the percentage of electronics assemblers that are women? Then do the same for engineers and technicians. Seems out of whack, but it's not. While men and women are hired to do assembly work in roughly equal numbers, more women tend to survive the training and weeding out process because they're better at the job than men in general. Women, OTOH, rarely get into STEM. It's not that they're excluded (colleges and companies are bending over backwards to encourage women to do it), they're just plain not interested.
It's frustrating because we're suffering an engineer shortage, but what are ya gonna do? :noidea: You can't put a gun to their heads and *force* them into STEM.

Are they better swimmers too?

[86WARD]

It’s interesting that 3 of the new hires are from the Philadelphia area. Stefanski, Judge and Rhule.

[Mojouw]

What is the percentage of electronics assemblers that are women? Then do the same for engineers and technicians. Seems out of whack, but it's not. While men and women are hired to do assembly work in roughly equal numbers, more women tend to survive the training and weeding out process because they're better at the job than men in general. Women, OTOH, rarely get into STEM. It's not that they're excluded (colleges and companies are bending over backwards to encourage women to do it), they're just plain not interested.
It's frustrating because we're suffering an engineer shortage, but what are ya gonna do? :noidea: You can't put a gun to their heads and *force* them into STEM.

I mean I could point to the mountain of evidence about the biases, stereotypes, and flat out gender discrimination that has created and perpetuated the lack of women in STEM fields, but I suspect that you are already aware of all those datasets and have chosen to reject them. Therefore, nothing I say or link to will change your mind on the issue.

I have no idea if I am right on why there are so few minority coaches at the professional level. I only offered my opinion based on the evidence at hand. I also am not in favor of forcing anyone to do anything. The comments from former players that they view the coaching hiring process as exclusionary and biased leads me to believe that many players simply reject the notion of going into coaching after their playing days are over because they see the system as rigged against them. Again, I have no idea if it is a rigged game -- but it looks like it could be from an outside perspective. To be clear, I suspect it isn't a situation where there is a great deal of explicit racism and discrimination (owners flat out refusing to hire minority coaches) but one of implicit bias based on expectations (this candidate looks, talks, acts, and otherwise meets my assumptions of what a "great" football coach is).

[Mojouw]

Coincidentally, this article was posted today: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/1/14/21065031/rooney-rule-nfl-head-coaching-hires

"Coaches work until they can’t anymore, when the weight is too heavy to bear, when they tire of being passed over for subpar talent. For white talent. For ideas about who coaches look like."

"...it is imperative to work on improving ‘the perception of competence’ of sport business professionals of color..."

[GoSlash27]

*snort* Yeah... "datasets". What a wonderful way to shroud rhetoric with a paper-thin veil of credibility :D
I must remember that one. :heh:
You should explore outside the confines of your little dogmatic 'woke' campus and explore the real world every once in a while. Talk to real people with real life experience in these areas your "datasets" supposedly apply to. You want to talk the electronics industry for real, hit me up on PM. I'll even introduce you to a real life female engineer.
Those of us out here living this life know a lot more about it than you ever will. :ranger:

[Mojouw]

*snort* Yeah... "datasets". What a wonderful way to shroud rhetoric with a paper-thin veil of credibility :D
I must remember that one. :heh:
You should explore outside the confines of your little dogmatic 'woke' campus and explore the real world every once in a while. Talk to real people with real life experience in these areas your "datasets" supposedly apply to. You want to talk the electronics industry for real, hit me up on PM. I'll even introduce you to a real life female engineer.
Those of us out here living this life know a lot more about it than you ever will. :ranger:

You continue to make false assumptions about my lifesryle, career, and point of view. Since you know next to nothing about me, that's a bit confusing.

I could talk about how 80% of my students work full time. 10% or so are veterans. 30% or so are parents. I'll be sure to let them know how separated from real life you have determined them to be.

I could talk about in most years I work 3-6 jobs ranging from manual labor to temp work to teaching to barely make ends meet.

I could line up the women in STEM that I know who have experienced harassment and discrimination in the academic, private, and public sector from here to doomsday.

I suspect none of that would alter your opinions one iota. For some reason, any claims to the existence of discrimination, bias, or prejudiced seems to threaten you at some level.

Just so I know, because I like to learn things whenever I can, when did gender based discrimination in STEM end?

[GoSlash27]

You continue to make false assumptions about my lifesryle, career, and point of view. Since you know next to nothing about me, that's a bit confusing.
It's not confusing at all to people who actually use techno-babble terms like "datasets" for a living. ;)

I could line up the women in STEM that I know who have experienced harassment and discrimination in the academic, private, and public sector from here to doomsday.
Betcha can't. You don't know any of them outside of the academic world. That isn't real life. I know them in the real world, and the ones I know would laugh in your face.

Just so I know, because I like to learn things whenever I can, when did gender based discrimination in STEM end?
1961. That's the year when my favorite female STEM nerd hero got the job of singlehandedly inventing an entirely new discipline of engineering. That is, of course, after she earned her spurs by being the person who made SAGE behave. Margaret Hamilton. I'm sure you've heard of her. Since then, there has been *zero* institutional bias against female engineers. There isn't some mythical smoke filled room with old white dudes dedicated to oppressing females in STEM, there's just a lack of females pursuing this career path. The women who do this work are capable, respected, and appreciated... but they are very few and far between.
All of that "muh racism" and "muh patriarchy" crap you folks out there on the campus tell yourselves to justify your preconceived notions... it's horseshit. But what do the rest of us know? We're just the people out here with actual life experience. :noidea:

[GoSlash27]

And I'll tell ya something else...
When I got hired into my workplace, nobody gave a crap about my race. They had a PR problem due to a huge layoff and labor relations and thus needed qualified techs from wherever they could find them. They searched all over the country for anyone who could pass their test (the most difficult in the industry), and they found me in Pittsburgh. Zero consideration was given to the fact that I happen to be some underprivileged inner- city black dude. I'm good at electronics, and for my entire career nobody around here has given a crap about anything beyond that. All that "racism" and "sexism" garbage... out here in the real world, nobody cares. You're either good or you suck.
I'm good. The other black techs and engineers are good. The handful of female techs and engineers I know are good. *Nobody* around here has ever cared about anything beyond that, including us. The only problem is there aren't nearly enough of us.

[Mojouw]

And I'll tell ya something else...
When I got hired into my workplace, nobody gave a crap about my race. They had a PR problem due to a huge layoff and labor relations and thus needed qualified techs from wherever they could find them. They searched all over the country for anyone who could pass their test (the most difficult in the industry), and they found me in Pittsburgh. Zero consideration was given to the fact that I happen to be some underprivileged inner- city black dude. I'm good at electronics, and for my entire career nobody around here has given a crap about anything beyond that. All that "racism" and "sexism" garbage... out here in the real world, nobody cares. You're either good or you suck.
I'm good. The other black techs and engineers are good. The handful of female techs and engineers I know are good. *Nobody* around here has ever cared about anything beyond that, including us. The only problem is there aren't nearly enough of us.

That's awesome and I think it's great that you have been rewarded for your skills and capabilities. I'm sure you've earned everything through your hard work and dedication. Your posts over the years have indicated that you are highly successful in your chosen field.

As a middle class white dude, I got no idea but I would guess you've experienced things or moments in your personal and/or professional life where you've been treated differently because your black. If not, that's awesome and I'm glad you've not had to deal with that. My friends of color and my female friends have not universally reported the same experience. They've indicated that their appearance has presented roadblocks in their lives.

Again, I don't know. There's vanishingly small implicit or explicit bias against people who look, talk, and come from my background. However, folks different than me have numerous stories where there are barriers and gatekeeping for people who look, talk, or come from their backgrounds.

It's wonderful that you've had such a positive experience. But, and again, just me-Im not going to deny that there exist individuals who have had an opposite experience.

I don't think there's some cabal of people in a back room somewhere picking winners and losers. Certainly, ability and talent are the ultimate tokens of admission. But I do believe there are low level long term biases that can create and perpetuate exclusionary practices in a variety of industries.

But, at the end of the day - WTF do I know? I'm just an idiot with a keyboard and an internet connection.

[GoSlash27]

Hell, I've experienced racism in my day, just as all of the female eggheads I've known have experienced sexism. It's just that those sort of things never impeded our careers. The entire narrative of "oppressed minority is under- represented in certain fields therefore they must be victims of discrimination" simply doesn't hold true out here. There aren't a lot of poor inner city black guys or women in STEM. It's not that they're not given opportunities or are turned away, it's simply that they're not interested. They'd rather do something else.

[tom444]

There aren't a lot of poor inner city black guys or women in STEM.

Do you have any black guys in Iowa?