This is almost spooky...Hodges simply doesn't go over the middle

[Mojouw]

So here are his preseason throws: https://steelersdepot.com/2019/08/film-room-breakdown-of-qb-devlin-hodges-preseason-pass-attempts-through-two-games/

And here are his regular season throws: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/devlin-hodges/HOD363523

For comparison, Mason Rudolph: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/mason-rudolph/RUD321216/season and Ben R from 2018: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/2018

Now, I grant that the disappearance of McDonald and Juju from the 2019 offense is going to have a great impact on those pass target charts...but c'mon. I find it hard to believe there wasn't a single option available more the 5 yards past the line of scrimmage in about 6 games?

Here is a QB not known for his arm strength playing behind an awful line on a terrible offensive team: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/andy-dalton/DAL659900/2019 and another: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/ryan-fitzpatrick/FIT792915/2019

Is it the design of the offense? Is it lack of Juju and a TE? Or is Duck only comfortable throwing outside along the boundary?

[EzraTank]

I was saying that all night. The Bills knew exactly where it was going as if the Patriots had shown them their video tapes.

You have to throw 10 yards down the middle of the field to keep defenses honest.

[Edman]

Ben has struggled in this offense (minus AB) dating back to Week 17 of last year, and it carried over to the Patriots game. Three quarterbacks with the exact same issues in the exact same offense. Ben’s arm similarly looked “weak” as Hodges and Rudolph against the Patriots. His deep ball also suffered.

It could possibly be that the offense is flawed on a fundamental level and without the elite talent of Antonio Brown altering defensive game plans and simply just beating the guy across from him, the warts and weaknesses are out in the open. We don’t respect the run game particularly well, and our play design is varsity level. As we have all seen, it doesn’t take top defensive talent to stop this offense. Just blanket the receivers outside and leave a guy in coverage to stop the TE.

If you notice All of James Washington’s catches (particularly against Cleveland) were AB-esque. Never schemed open. Just Herculean athletic effort. Without that effort, nothing happens. If we need this kind of effort each and every week to do the simplest things like converting a first down, is it really farfetched to assume the offense will struggle?

It’s probably not that at all, maybe Hodges and Rudolph really do suck and the Steelers somehow managed to grab two of the absolute worst quarterbacks in the NFL.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Ben has struggled in this offense (minus AB) dating back to Week 17 of last year, and it carried over to the Patriots game. Three quarterbacks with the exact same issues in the exact same offense. Ben’s arm similarly looked “weak” as Hodges and Rudolph against the Patriots. His deep ball also suffered.

It could possibly be that the offense is flawed on a fundamental level and without the elite talent of Antonio Brown altering defensive game plans and simply just beating the guy across from him, the warts and weaknesses are out in the open. We don’t respect the run game particularly well, and our play design is varsity level. As we have all seen, it doesn’t take top defensive talent to stop this offense. Just blanket the receivers outside and leave a guy in coverage to stop the TE.

If you notice All of James Washington’s catches (particularly against Cleveland) were AB-esque. Never schemed open. Just Herculean athletic effort. Without that effort, nothing happens. If we need this kind of effort each and every week to do the simplest things like converting a first down, is it really farfetched to assume the offense will struggle?

It’s probably not that at all, maybe Hodges and Rudolph really do suck and the Steelers somehow managed to grab two of the absolute worst quarterbacks in the NFL. Great Post! Ben wouldn't be no savior of this offense like many think on here.

[Mojouw]

Ben has struggled in this offense (minus AB) dating back to Week 17 of last year, and it carried over to the Patriots game. Three quarterbacks with the exact same issues in the exact same offense. Ben’s arm similarly looked “weak” as Hodges and Rudolph against the Patriots. His deep ball also suffered.

It could possibly be that the offense is flawed on a fundamental level and without the elite talent of Antonio Brown altering defensive game plans and simply just beating the guy across from him, the warts and weaknesses are out in the open. We don’t respect the run game particularly well, and our play design is varsity level. As we have all seen, it doesn’t take top defensive talent to stop this offense. Just blanket the receivers outside and leave a guy in coverage to stop the TE.

If you notice All of James Washington’s catches (particularly against Cleveland) were AB-esque. Never schemed open. Just Herculean athletic effort. Without that effort, nothing happens. If we need this kind of effort each and every week to do the simplest things like converting a first down, is it really farfetched to assume the offense will struggle?

It’s probably not that at all, maybe Hodges and Rudolph really do suck and the Steelers somehow managed to grab two of the absolute worst quarterbacks in the NFL.

I don't know about all that. Washington was open on most of his deep passes. They often looked more difficult than they should have because the ball was put in an awful spot.

Also, look at Ben R's passing charts for 2018. He isn't going deep down the sidelines to AB.

Also, watch highlights each week. A great % of the deep passes that are completed in the NFL are the kind of herculean efforts you are speaking about.

Hodges and Rudolph are hot garbage. Fichtner does little to help them, but they are hot garbage. Only (somewhat) surprising for Rudolph. Hodges was playing with house money even being on a roster.

[DesertSteel]

Hodges and Rudolph are hot garbage. Fichtner does little to help them, but they are hot garbage. Only (somewhat) surprising for Rudolph. Hodges was playing with house money even being on a roster.
My optimism for each of them as run dry and I’d agree with this assessment.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

So here are his preseason throws: https://steelersdepot.com/2019/08/film-room-breakdown-of-qb-devlin-hodges-preseason-pass-attempts-through-two-games/

And here are his regular season throws: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/devlin-hodges/HOD363523

For comparison, Mason Rudolph: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/mason-rudolph/RUD321216/season and Ben R from 2018: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/2018

Now, I grant that the disappearance of McDonald and Juju from the 2019 offense is going to have a great impact on those pass target charts...but c'mon. I find it hard to believe there wasn't a single option available more the 5 yards past the line of scrimmage in about 6 games?

Here is a QB not known for his arm strength playing behind an awful line on a terrible offensive team: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/andy-dalton/DAL659900/2019 and another: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/ryan-fitzpatrick/FIT792915/2019

Is it the design of the offense? Is it lack of Juju and a TE? Or is Duck only comfortable throwing outside along the boundary? Ben was Hot garbage against the Pats in the first game. Then suck ass in the second game until the hurry up offense. Then his arm was done after that!

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Damn I wasted my 4,000 post to argue with someone that can't admit Ben was hot garbage in this offense as well!

[Shoes]

Damn I wasted my 4,000 post to argue with someone that can't admit Ben was hot garbage in this offense as well!


Well, Ben did stink in the two games that he did play. He set the stage for the 2019 season. :chuckle:

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Well, Ben did stink in the two games that he did play. He set the stage for the 2019 season. :chuckle: Haha Shoes and lead by example! This offense sucks no matter the QB.

[Mojouw]

Damn I wasted my 4,000 post to argue with someone that can't admit Ben was hot garbage in this offense as well!

Your missing the point. Evaluating the QB is separate (as much as possible) from the evaluation of the scheme.

Hodges and Rudolph are not good. They are really not good in this offense. Ben R is really good. Were his struggles the offense, his typical slow start, or his elbow hanging by a thread? Hard to tell.

Arguing that Hodges and Rudolph are awful and that Hodges is avoiding the middle of the field like the plague is not a defense of the offensive system.

Dissecting the system overall and game plans etc is a further point. We can have that discussion on the board, but there is no debating that Hodges refuses to go over the middle.

[Steeler-in-west]

Maybe it’s related to his aversion to stepping up into the pocket

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Your missing the point. Evaluating the QB is separate (as much as possible) from the evaluation of the scheme.

Hodges and Rudolph are not good. They are really not good in this offense. Ben R is really good. Were his struggles the offense, his typical slow start, or his elbow hanging by a thread? Hard to tell.

Arguing that Hodges and Rudolph are awful and that Hodges is avoiding the middle of the field like the plague is not a defense of the offensive system.

Dissecting the system overall and game plans etc is a further point. We can have that discussion on the board, but there is no debating that Hodges refuses to go over the middle. You are missing the point and Ben was garbage the two games he played under this offense! Bet his stats was very compatible to Mason and Hodges starts!

[Fire Goodell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryDOy3AosBw

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Okay back to topic, Hodges doesn't want to throw over the middle! Is that on him or maybe the OC as well ?

[Edman]

If Hodges and Rudolph for just “not being good”, then it probably means Ben isn’t good either. That just can’t be possible could it? No way.

As for why Hodges doesn’t go over the middle, I guess he somehow turned gun-shy overnight or something. Which is odd, because gunning it was supposedly his strongest trait and something Rudolph couldn’t do, yet he’s doing the exact same things as him. Suddenly, Hodges is a statue, Hodges has problems with ball placement. Hodges is scared to throw the ball. Hodges regressed worse than Rudolph did. Two young quarterbacks with the exact same ability issues. What are the odds?

To support my theory that this offense is predicated on amateur level, I will point out the last INT of the game. I think that was by design. Bad enough the throw wasn’t great, James Washington was in a poor position and just let his guy straight beat him to the ball. The offense is built on winning the combat ball, and that simply isn’t sustainable, especially with weaker talent.

[teegre]

For decades, the middle of the field was ignored... because, it’s a scary place. Lots of defenders, lots of movement, lots of big hits.

Then, Michael Irvin routinely went across the middle... and, Troy Aikman wasn’t afraid to throw him the ball. It changed football forever.

Right now, Duck sees a ton of opposing jerseys and lots of guys moving around. So, he’d prefer to throw it five yards outside (which is actually a farther throw) than throw it 10 yards down the middle.

Usually a TE helps ease a young QB into the process of throwing across the middle, but for whatever reason, that has not been the case this season. Is that on Duck? Is that on Fichtner? Or, is it due to a lack of talent at the TE position?

[AtlantaDan]

Usually a TE helps ease a young QB into the process of throwing across the middle, but for whatever reason, that has not been the case this season. Is that on Duck? Is that on Fichtner? Or, is it due to a lack of talent at the TE position?

McDonald is talented when healthy (a big if)

After 15 years we take for granted having a QB who has seen it all and before that always had a cannon for an arm that he thought allowed him - not always correctly :chuckle: - to make any throws anywhere

Now with Mason and Duck we have two QBs without that arm strength who are trying to read NFL defenses as opposed to what they were seeing in the Big 12 (regarded as consistently having the worst defenses in the Power 5 conferences) and at Samford. That is like going from driving on the interstate to driving Formula One - no surprise Mason and Duck prefer to drive down on the apron rather than get in the mix in the middle of the track.

Or, to use another analogy, as Sam Darnold said when the Pats were playing mind games on defense with him this season, they are seeing ghosts out there. Someone like Andy Reid might be able to scheme up a way to handle that, but Randy Fichtner is no ghostbuster.

[teegre]

McDonald is talented when healthy (a big if)

After 15 years we take for granted having a QB who has seen it all and before that always had a cannon for an arm that he thought allowed him - not always correctly :chuckle: - to make any throws anywhere

Now with Mason and Duck we have two QBs without that arm strength who are trying to read NFL defenses as opposed to what they were seeing in the Big 12 (regarded as consistently having the worst defenses in the Power 5 conferences) and Samford. That is like going from driving on the interstate to driving Formula One - no surprise Mason and Duck prefer to drive down on the apron rather than get in the mix in the middle of the track.

Or, to use another analogy, as Sam Darnold said when the Pats were playing mind games on defense with him this season, they are seeing ghosts out there. Someone like Andy Reid might be able to scheme up a way to handle that, but Randy Fichtner is no ghostbuster.

There is so much to enjoy in this post. The humor, the analogies, the logic. My favorite post in a great while. :nod:

[DesertSteel]

Oh how I long for the days of Landry Jones!

[Mojouw]

If Hodges and Rudolph for just “not being good”, then it probably means Ben isn’t good either. That just can’t be possible could it? No way.

As for why Hodges doesn’t go over the middle, I guess he somehow turned gun-shy overnight or something. Which is odd, because gunning it was supposedly his strongest trait and something Rudolph couldn’t do, yet he’s doing the exact same things as him. Suddenly, Hodges is a statue, Hodges has problems with ball placement. Hodges is scared to throw the ball. Hodges regressed worse than Rudolph did. Two young quarterbacks with the exact same ability issues. What are the odds?

To support my theory that this offense is predicated on amateur level, I will point out the last INT of the game. I think that was by design. Bad enough the throw wasn’t great, James Washington was in a poor position and just let his guy straight beat him to the ball. The offense is built on winning the combat ball, and that simply isn’t sustainable, especially with weaker talent.

When was he a gunslinger? College? Because his preseason throwing chart and his regular season throwing chart look almost exactly the same. Duck takes his shots down the sideline where he can attempt to put the ball to the outside of the WR who can then use his body to wall off the defender. Unless it was in practice, Duck has refused to go over the middle in the NFL.

As to the last INT, it would have been a really difficult throw, but a ball to the back of the endzone would have found Washington behind all 11 defenders. But a QB rolling out without his feet set is going to have a hard time getting that done.

[steel striker]

Look let's be real here Duck is undrafted free agent and, he is doing his best. There is a reason he is undrafted free agent and, Mason is not any better. That's the bottom line and, can they improve? I think they both could get better but, who knows. For those Ben haters how do you like the offense without him?? My god he is a HOF QB and, if we had a healthy Ben the Steelers would have a playoff spot already locked in.

[Six Rings]

After 3 solid games as a starter, and some impressive work as sub, suddenly some people are down on Duck.


Its just one game, vs. the best defense we played, with the Steelers minus key weapons.


With McDonald out, we worked the middle less. With Conner coming back to play, he was used sparingly. Ju-ju is an excellent slant receiver with size. He was out too.


If you limit any team's top back, and remove their #1 WR and TE, it's not going to be easy. The OL didn't play well. Mix in a terrible punt that lead to easy points and a what the F type of call near the end zone cost us points on a Fumble ( Johnson's 5th of the year ) , and which QB wouldn't have a tough time vs. the Bills defense?


I expect Duck to be better as a passer and take better care as we beat the Jets this weekend. He's 4-1 in games where he threw it 10 times or more, soon to be 5-1

[teegre]

It’s almost as if Duck hasn’t had a slot receiver. It’s almost as if the league’s best slot receiver might help with this.

IMO, with a certain someone returning to the lineup, we’re about to see a coming out party... (like 18/20 for 210 and 2 TDs).

Here’s to Mark Madden getting hit by a truck. :nod:

[86WARD]

It’s almost as if Duck hasn’t had a slot receiver. It’s almost as if the league’s best slot receiver might help with this.

IMO, with a certain someone returning to the lineup, we’re about to see a coming out party... (like 18/20 for 210 and 2 TDs).

Here’s to Mark Madden getting hit by a truck. :nod:

Lol...if only they had that slot receiver...

Maybe AB is available? Should’ve never let Bell go. Sneak Hines Ward on the field...

[pczach]

It’s almost as if Duck hasn’t had a slot receiver. It’s almost as if the league’s best slot receiver might help with this.

IMO, with a certain someone returning to the lineup, we’re about to see a coming out party... (like 18/20 for 210 and 2 TDs).

Here’s to Mark Madden getting hit by a truck. :nod:



If Switzer were playing, we would have plenty of 1 yard catches out of the slot..... :tongue1:

No AB......JuJu missing significant time.....Moncrief a complete disaster and released.....2 young, inexperienced WRs...…...Switzer gone...…..almost zero tight end impact...….the starting RB missing significant time and backups banged up all year...……...What could possibly go wrong for a second year third-string QB and an undrafted rookie FA QB?

They appear to finally be pretty healthy. Let's see what they can do from here.

Here's to Mark Madden getting hit by a truck...….and to JuJu igniting this offense too. :rofl2:

[Shoes]

If Switzer were playing, we would have plenty of 1 yard catches out of the slot..... :tongue1:

No AB......JuJu missing significant time.....Moncrief a complete disaster and released.....2 young, inexperienced WRs...…...Switzer gone...…..almost zero tight end impact...….the starting RB missing significant time and backups banged up all year...……...What could possibly go wrong for a second year third-string QB and an undrafted rookie FA QB?

They appear to finally be pretty healthy. Let's see what they can do from here.

Here's to Mark Madden getting hit by a truck...….and to JuJu igniting this offense too. :rofl2:

Ben loved Switzer and Moncrief. Maybe he should retire. :chuckle:

[pczach]

Ben loved Switzer and Moncrief. Maybe he should retire. :chuckle:



https://media.giphy.com/media/KcWHfKmCyEG5AncZ8J/giphy.gif

[Shoes]

https://media.giphy.com/media/KcWHfKmCyEG5AncZ8J/giphy.gif


:lol:

[Six Rings]

It’s almost as if Duck hasn’t had a slot receiver. It’s almost as if the league’s best slot receiver might help with this.

IMO, with a certain someone returning to the lineup, we’re about to see a coming out party... (like 18/20 for 210 and 2 TDs).

Here’s to Mark Madden getting hit by a truck. :nod:


I'd rather see, Here's to Mark Madden getting &hit on by Duck.

[teegre]

I'd rather see, Here's to Mark Madden getting &hit on by Duck.

As long as that sh!t causes Madden to scream in excruciating pain, then Yes. :nod:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I wish he went over the middle to the open Johnson on crossing pattern instead of throwing up that INT in the end zone, intended for a RB in double coverage. :doh:

[pczach]

I wish he went over the middle to the open Johnson on crossing pattern instead of throwing up that INT in the end zone, intended for a RB in double coverage. :doh:



I said exactly the same thing watching it happen. It was there and it would have been a different game if he makes that play.

[86WARD]

I wish he went over the middle to the open Johnson on crossing pattern instead of throwing up that INT in the end zone, intended for a RB in double coverage. :doh:

Said the exact same thing. My one 10 year old also said the same...