This team just isn’t good enough

[Fire Goodell]

Not a knock, they overachieved this season for what they had, just the lack of playmakers is not gonna get it done against playoff caliber teams

[fansince'76]

I've been saying for a couple years they need an upgrade at punter. That should be a simple enough fix, but for this team, it hasn't been. For every one Berry booms, he completely shanks another, usually at the worst times.

[st33lersguy]

When Fichtner is your OC, your o-line has regressed to late 00s form and your QB isn't Ben's caliber you are going to fail on offense

[tube517]

Meh, We all knew it would be a shit show if Ben got hurt. Can't rely on a rookie UDFA QB and a crap OC with a bunch of injuries.

[Rotorhead]

Yeah, they gave it a hell of a run, maybe the Rats will lock up home field next week and we can get a dong W against them. We just have too many injuries, good development by Washington and DJ, getting Juju back will round out the WR core, our defense is definitely championship quality, hopefully Ben will be back 100% next season and better with a year of rest and ready for a run.

[vader29]

1206430152797892608

[st33lersguy]

Jets is a must win game, unfortunately not only do the Jets suck, I'm sure Smokey will view this as a revenge game and give his best effort

[fansince'76]

Jets is a must win game, unfortunately not only do the Jets suck, I'm sure Smokey will view this as a revenge game and give his best effort

Bell is past it. Not worried about him at all.

[BlackAndGold]

Not sure anyone would disagree. This team is winning due to the defense. If they get in the postseason, they'll likely be out very quickly but I'm still rooting for them to make it.

[Rotorhead]

Jets is a must win game, unfortunately not only do the Jets suck, I'm sure Smokey will view this as a revenge game and give his best effort

This was a must win game . . .

[BlackAndGold]

Just beat the Jets next week and hope Titans lose to the Saints they clinch.

[Fire Goodell]

This was a must win game . . .

It wasn't a must win, but it was a chance to make a statement game. They failed at that. If they clinch they'd basically be limping into the playoffs, which is not a good way to go in.

But what the hell. They don't have a rd 1 pick anyway so go for it. I just wish they'd stop fucking around with the run run pass shit they do in the first half. I rather them play like a team that has nothing to lose, cause really they don't.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

It wasn't a must win, but it was a chance to make a statement game. They failed at that. If they clinch they'd basically be limping into the playoffs, which is not a good way to go in.

But what the hell. They don't have a rd 1 pick anyway so go for it. I just wish they'd stop fucking around with the run run pass shit they do in the first half. I rather them play like a team that has nothing to lose, cause really they don't. The run, run pass just shows how stupid Fitchtner is. Please fire that fat ass after the season! Worthless!

[Mojouw]

I am no fan of Fichtner. I’ve stated previously that he’s average at best. But what does anyone want him to do? His quarterbacks are consistently unable to reliably execute fundamental aspects of an NFL caliber offense. It’s not like he’s got a lot he can call. He’s got to mask slow progress and decision making by inexperienced QBs and a lack of arm strength to challenge top DBs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steeler-in-west]

1206430152797892608

yeah, Ben’s been enjoying the holidays - but for sure this team lacks a QB. Washington was open in the end zone on that int to Cain. Duck was off, even that pick by white was a bad throw by Hodges.

[teegre]

Just beat the Jets next week and hope Titans lose to the Saints they clinch.

Scenario 1:
win, win, in

Scenario 2:
win, Titans lose, in

[Fire Goodell]

Well at least we can say "At least we're not the Browns", lol. Talk about a talented squad that can't do shit right

[Craic]

Not a knock, they overachieved this season for what they had, just the lack of playmakers is not gonna get it done against playoff caliber teams

Not quite sure I completely agree with you. I think there's a few things that they can clean up before the playoffs if the Steelers make it. But overall, it's a fair assessment. I'd say they're good enough to go in and maybe surprise a wild card team. But, they most likely will not get past the Ravens or Cheats in the divisional round if they make it there.

[pczach]

I am no fan of Fichtner. I’ve stated previously that he’s average at best. But what does anyone want him to do? His quarterbacks are consistently unable to reliably execute fundamental aspects of an NFL caliber offense. It’s not like he’s got a lot he can call. He’s got to mask slow progress and decision making by inexperienced QBs and a lack of arm strength to challenge top DBs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I've been saying this all year. Fichtner is never going to get credit when Duck or Rudolph does well, but when they fail...it's his fault!

Don't get me wrong, I wish he would just take that wildcat section out of the playbook and burn it...but they came out of the gate looking good, running the ball pretty well, and Duck just kept missing guys. After that, you could feel the Bills start to strangle the offense. They made a couple big plays, and then would implode.

I think we are watching parts of this OL get old quickly. Foster can barely move anymore, and Pouncey seems to have a half dozen bad snaps a game at horrible times and he can't move people anymore.

This is why I always caution people about getting excited too quickly about a young player, particularly a quarterback. Duck saw some things last night that he hadn't seen before. He struggled against a really good NFL defense. His accuracy was off and he threw the ball into the teeth of the defense several times. Now, we get to see how he responds. That's the game with quarterbacks.

[Crow-Magnon]

IMO, the Steelers D is playoff-ready without a doubt. No concerns there. But the offense does not have what it takes to win in the post-season. At least not what I saw last night. Granted, anything can happen in the post-season, but Duck looked rattled in the 4th quarter and those two picks were hideous. Probably the best playoff match-up would be against the Pats, as I think that defense would have an effect on Brady this year more than in most years. Probably two INT’s.

[EzraTank]

Not a knock, they overachieved this season for what they had, just the lack of playmakers is not gonna get it done against playoff caliber teams

The sad thing is had Juju & Ben stayed healthy and AB not gone full douche bag we would be a top seed in the AFC this year. Of course Fichtner is f'n clueless so this might not even be true.

[Mojouw]

I've been saying this all year. Fichtner is never going to get credit when Duck or Rudolph does well, but when they fail...it's his fault!

Don't get me wrong, I wish he would just take that wildcat section out of the playbook and burn it...but they came out of the gate looking good, running the ball pretty well, and Duck just kept missing guys. After that, you could feel the Bills start to strangle the offense. They made a couple big plays, and then would implode.

I think we are watching parts of this OL get old quickly. Foster can barely move anymore, and Pouncey seems to have a half dozen bad snaps a game at horrible times and he can't move people anymore.

This is why I always caution people about getting excited too quickly about a young player, particularly a quarterback. Duck saw some things last night that he hadn't seen before. He struggled against a really good NFL defense. His accuracy was off and he threw the ball into the teeth of the defense several times. Now, we get to see how he responds. That's the game with quarterbacks.

I'm not totally convinced the offensive line is really all that different than even last year's version. They haven't been really good run blockers aside from pulling plays for several seasons now, so that is a wash. In pass protection, I am seeing far more sacks coming from a combination of poor coordination between RBs and offensive lineman and the QBs having almost no sense of how to avoid pressure/being in the wrong place than the line just getting flat out beat on an individual basis consistently.

But it sounds like we are singing the same tune on Fichtner.

[steel striker]

The bottom line the offense can't score enough points and, the defense is doing all they can to keep it close. I'm tired of seeing that blasted wildcat.

[Iron Steeler]

Scenario 1:
win, win, in

Scenario 2:
win, Titans lose, in

Hey teegre, I'm not sure if the 100% accurate.

According to ESPN's playoff calculator...

Steelers beat jets and lose to ravens were 9-7
Titsne lose to Saints and beat Texand they are 9-7.

According to this calculator thing, Titans would get 6th seed .

Although, per the calculators logic, if we win any of the next two games and Titand lose to the Texans. We hold the tiebreaker.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Hey teegre, I'm not sure if the 100% accurate.

According to ESPN's playoff calculator...

Steelers beat jets and lose to ravens were 9-7
Titsne lose to Saints and beat Texand they are 9-7.

According to this calculator thing, Titans would get 6th seed .

Although, per the calculators logic, if we win any of the next two games and Titand lose to the Texans. We hold the tiebreaker.That ESPN thing is flawed and right now we are the 6 seed. If we tie with the Titans we are in.

[EzraTank]

That ESPN thing is flawed and right now we are the 6 seed. If we tie with the Titans we are in.

If the Titans lose to the Saints and win against the Texans (assuming we beat the Jets/lose to Ravens) we would what have the same records and tie breakers so I have no idea who gets that. The Saints game is out of conference so if the Titans beat the Saints but lose to the Texans we would hold the head to head tie-breaker if we finish with the same record.

It's a mess that's for sure, and like I said in other threads missing the playoffs would give us a better pick and I'd lean that way but since Miami owns our pick I'd rather make the playoffs.


Tiebreaker Rules The six postseason participants from each conference will be seeded as follows:


The division champion with the best record.
The division champion with the second-best record.
The division champion with the third-best record.
The division champion with the fourth-best record.
The Wild Card club with the best record.
The Wild Card club with the second-best record.

The following procedures will be used to break standings ties for postseason playoffs and to determine regular-season schedules.
NOTE: Tie games count as one-half win and one-half loss for both clubs.
TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION:
If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with the best won-lost-tied percentage, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.
Two Clubs:


Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
Strength of victory.
Strength of schedule.
Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best net points in common games.
Best net points in all games.
Best net touchdowns in all games.
Coin toss.

Three or More Clubs:
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after one or more clubs are eliminated during any step, tie-breaker re-starts at Step One of two-club format. If three clubs remain tied after a fourth club is eliminated during any step, tie-breaker re-starts at Step One of three-club format.)



Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs).
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
Strength of victory.
Strength of schedule.
Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best net points in common games.
Best net points in all games.
Best net touchdowns in all games.
Coin toss.

TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM OR AMONG DIVISION WINNERS:
If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.


If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.
If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

Two Clubs:


Head-to-head, if applicable.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
Strength of victory.
Strength of schedule.
Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best net points in conference games.
Best net points in all games.
Best net touchdowns in all games.
Coin toss.

Three or More Clubs:
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after one or more clubs are eliminated during any step, tie-breaker re-starts at Step One of two-club format. If three clubs remain tied after a fourth club is eliminated during any step, tie-breaker re-starts at Step One of three-club format.)


Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.
Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
Strength of victory.
Strength of schedule.
Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best net points in conference games.
Best net points in all games.
Best net touchdowns in all games.
Coin toss

When the first Wild-Card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second Wild-Card, i.e., eliminate all but the highest-ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. In situations where three or more teams from the same division are involved in the procedure, the original seeding of the teams remains the same for subsequent applications of the tie breaker if the top-ranked team in that division qualifies for a Wild-Card berth.
OTHER TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES


Only one club advances to the playoffs in any tie-breaking step. Remaining tied clubs revert to the first step of the applicable division or Wild-Card tie breakers. As an example, if two clubs remain tied in any tie-breaker step after all other clubs have been eliminated, the procedure reverts to step one of the two-club format to determine the winner. When one club wins the tie breaker, all other clubs revert to step 1 of the applicable two-club or three-club format.
In comparing division and conference records or records against common opponents among tied teams, the best won-lost-tied percentage is the deciding factor since teams may have played an unequal number of games.
To determine home-field priority among division titlists, apply Wild-Card tie breakers.
To determine home-field priority for Wild-Card qualifiers, apply division tie breakers (if teams are from the same division) or Wild-Card tie breakers (if teams are from different divisions).

Tie Breaking Procedure for Draft:


Clubs not participating in the playoffs shall select in the first through 20th positions in reverse standings order.
The Super Bowl winner is last and Super Bowl loser is next-to-last.
The losers of the Conference Championship games shall select 29th and 30th based on won-lost-tied percentage.
The losers of the Divisional playoff games shall select 25th through 28th based on won-lost-tied percentage.
The losers of the Wild Card games shall select 21st through 24th based on won-lost-tied percentage.

If ties exist in any grouping except (2) above, such ties shall be broken by strength-of-schedule. If any ties cannot be broken by strength-of-schedule, the divisional or conference tie-breakers, if applicable, shall be applied. Any ties that still exist shall be broken by a coin flip.

[Iron Steeler]

That ESPN thing is flawed and right now we are the 6 seed. If we tie with the Titans we are in.

I'm not sure.

If we beat jets and lose to ravens we end up 9-7 overall. 7-6 vs the confrence and 3-3 against our division.

If the titans lose to the saints and beat the Texans their overall record would be 9-7. They would be 7-5 against the confrence and 3-3 against their division.

So they would get the tiebreaker. We can not clinch next week according to this logic.

7-5 confrence record would be better than our 7-6 in this scenario.

[Moose]

I like Duck, I think he's doing great for us for being 3rd/4th string QB...without alot of help on offense (alot of injuries). Buffalo could've easily been a win game for us....minus the 20 yrd punt by Berry which enabled the Bills a 40 yrd field ( 7pts), and some of the stupid passes and missed tackles . Bills had 3rd and long many times and picked up the 1st down.....i.e. 3rd and 10 and they picked up 19 yrds !! We just couldn't stop the run game. And did we even BLITZ any last night ? I think our Steeler's did good this year for what we had to work with, we got to see alot of the younger player's come around, such as Washington, with potential for the future. I'm still not a big Conner fan, sorry. I really don't see us in the play-offs since, let's face it, this just isn't a play-off team. Tomlin did wonder's for what he had to work with, hopefully he knows who to work with and who to unload....coaches included. Let's just hope that we don't have any major injuries in the remaining games and get ready for a hell of a run next year, and that the damn cheater's are out of it also !!!

[vasteeler]

So do you guys think we should start Lynch the last two games

[Fire Goodell]

So do you guys think we should start Lynch the last two games

No

[Mojouw]

So do you guys think we should start Lynch the last two games

If I was part of the Steelers brain trust, I would spend a significant portion of today's meetings discussing when I do and/or why I do not run Lynch out there and see what I have. I am not sure, after last night confirmed the worst fears about Hodges, what do the Steelers have to lose?

[EzraTank]

I'm not sure.

If we beat jets and lose to ravens we end up 9-7 overall. 7-6 vs the confrence and 3-3 against our division.

If the titans lose to the saints and beat the Texans their overall record would be 9-7. They would be 7-5 against the confrence and 3-3 against their division.

So they would get the tiebreaker. We can not clinch next week according to this logic.

7-5 confrence record would be better than our 7-6 in this scenario.

You are incorrect. If we beat the Jets and lose to the Ravens we would be 7-5 against the conference the same as the Titans in your scenario. I had to check because I didn't think it was possible to have 13 (7-6) games in conference when we play 4 teams from the NFC every year that would mean we played 17 games.

If we ended up the same as the Titans here are the tie breakers:


TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM OR AMONG DIVISION WINNERS:
If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.



If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.
If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

Two Clubs:


Head-to-head, if applicable.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
Strength of victory.
Strength of schedule.
Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
Best net points in conference games.
Best net points in all games.
Best net touchdowns in all games.
Coin toss.



So #1 head to head is out since we didn't play, #2 would be the same record, #3 would be the first tie breaker that applied.

We split with Cleveland, they beat them once. They split with Indy we beat them once. We both beat the Chargers so in the end #3 is a tie.

#4 Strength of victory & #5 Strength of schedule. I have no clue how to calculate these so I Googled them:


Computation. The strength of schedule can be calculated in many ways. ... In the National Football League (NFL),
the strength of schedule (SOS) is the combined record of all teams in a schedule, and the strength of victory
(SOV) is the combined record of all teams that were beaten in that schedule.

Okay then ... so this is where it starts to lean towards the Titans. Going off of #4 SOV we have beaten teams with very few wins and they beat Kansas City which really helps them. They have beaten teams with a total of 49 wins and we have beaten teams with a total of 34 wins. Not even close, they win hands down.

So based on #4 Strength of Victory if they beat the Texans and we end with the same record they get the tie breaker. Last nights lose was HUGE.

[HollywoodSteel]

You are incorrect. If we beat the Jets and lose to the Ravens we would be 7-5 against the conference the same as the Titans in your scenario. I had to check because I didn't think it was possible to have 13 (7-6) games in conference when we play 4 teams from the NFC every year that would mean we played 17 games.

If we ended up the same as the Titans here are the tie breakers:

Okay, that makes more sense. I was scratching my head wondering how we could possibly play 13 conference games. Especially with the Titans only playing 12. Lol

[86WARD]

You are incorrect. If we beat the Jets and lose to the Ravens we would be 7-5 against the conference the same as the Titans in your scenario. I had to check because I didn't think it was possible to have 13 (7-6) games in conference when we play 4 teams from the NFC every year that would mean we played 17 games.

If we ended up the same as the Titans here are the tie breakers:



So #1 head to head is out since we didn't play, #2 would be the same record, #3 would be the first tie breaker that applied.

We split with Cleveland, they beat them once. They split with Indy we beat them once. We both beat the Chargers so in the end #3 is a tie.

#4 Strength of victory & #5 Strength of schedule. I have no clue how to calculate these so I Googled them:



Okay then ... so this is where it starts to lean towards the Titans. Going off of #4 SOV we have beaten teams with very few wins and they beat Kansas City which really helps them. They have beaten teams with a total of 49 wins and we have beaten teams with a total of 34 wins. Not even close, they win hands down.

So based on #4 Strength of Victory if they beat the Texans and we end with the same record they get the tie breaker. Last nights lose was HUGE.

Makes much more sense then the beat the Jets and Titans lose to Saints and it’s over scenario...

[EzraTank]

Makes much more sense then the beat the Jets and Titans lose to Saints and it’s over scenario...

Yes, unfortunately a win next week guarantees us nothing but it would eliminate the Browns, Raiders and possibly the Colts (based on what they do tonight). If would mean we would need a Titans loss to the Texans the last week or a win at Baltimore with hopefully the Ravens resting players.

[vasteeler]

No

Because you don't like Lynch or you want so see more from Hodges?

[AtlantaDan]

So do you guys think we should start Lynch the last two games

When Mason returns at the half of the Jets game the heat generated on this board will be enough to warm a small city:couch: :chuckle:

[Fire Goodell]

When Mason returns at the half of the Jets game the heat generated on this board will be enough to warm a small city:couch: :chuckle:

Rudolph is supposed to be a hero right before Christmas, right? :chuckle:

[DesertSteel]

Rudolph is supposed to be a hero right before Christmas, right? :chuckle:
Honestly, for all intents and purposes, they're the same guy. The book is that Rudy has more arm talent but he doesn't process things quick enough. I'd go with whoever turns it over the least. Seems a toss up right now. I'm extremely disappointed in Duck's decision making on those final two drives. Horrible. The difference between his 4 INTs and Rudy's is that Rudy's was on the road in a hostile environment and Duck's was against a better defense. Both of them can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd be all in favor of giving Lynch a try. Both Rudy and Duck seem more at ease coming in to try and save the day if Lynch turns it over. None of them can move the offense.

[86WARD]

Rudolph has the feet of Dan Marino...he’s a statue out there. Hodges can at least extend the play a couple seconds...

[teegre]

I'm not sure.

If we beat jets and lose to ravens we end up 9-7 overall. 7-6 vs the confrence and 3-3 against our division.

If the titans lose to the saints and beat the Texans their overall record would be 9-7. They would be 7-5 against the confrence and 3-3 against their division.

So they would get the tiebreaker. We can not clinch next week according to this logic.

7-5 confrence record would be better than our 7-6 in this scenario.

In the event of a tie with the Titans, the Titans’ loss has to be to the Texans.

[pczach]

I'm not totally convinced the offensive line is really all that different than even last year's version. They haven't been really good run blockers aside from pulling plays for several seasons now, so that is a wash. In pass protection, I am seeing far more sacks coming from a combination of poor coordination between RBs and offensive lineman and the QBs having almost no sense of how to avoid pressure/being in the wrong place than the line just getting flat out beat on an individual basis consistently.

But it sounds like we are singing the same tune on Fichtner.



I'm not trying to necessarily blame the OL for everything. However, IMO they are a contributing factor.

I've been noticing how Foster isn't able to get to his assignments when pulling. Pouncey has been a disaster this year with bad snaps. Pouncey has caused almost as many turnovers as the quarterbacks with some of his bad snaps. He is also not the same factor he used to be in the run game. I know that they are still a good pass protection OL, but they haven't been able to run block well enough and consistently enough to take pressure off of the young QBs. The OL was not the reason they lost this game. Hodges completely shit the bed. What we saw was a systematic breakdown as the game went on. The interceptions at the end of the game were just awful. They were simply panic throws as he became more and more confused and shell shocked as the game went on.

You are correct about Duck getting himself sacked when he leaves a solid pocket and moves right into the pressure. He still does that more than we would like.

This is similar to what happened to Rudolph, but it happened against a really good defense and we can't forget that Duck is a rookie with four starts under his belt. This game matters, but what matters more is how he responds to this game and how well he plays in the next game.

Quarterbacking is like taking an exam every week. Defenses are going to try to give you questions you haven't answered before. The quarterback then either answers those questions, or gets them wrong. Defenses will continue to ask a quarterback that same question until he shows he has an answer for it. If he does, it's on to the next question. If he doesn't, he will always be limited and never become a fully competent quarterback. The quarterbacks that have the most answers to what defenses are trying to do to them are the best and most complete quarterbacks.

Defensive coordinators systematically attack quarterbacks to find out what they can or can't do. Once the blueprint is out there, defenses try to game plan to make QBs play to their weaknesses, while offenses try to design plays to make QBs play to their strengths.

Of course, everything I say above that defenses do is contingent upon the quality of the personnel on each defense, and how well they disguise what they are trying to do.

Let's hope Duck has a handle on more things this week. He will get tested. I don't know that the Jets have the personnel to do what the Bills did, but they will try.

Let's also hope that Duck has a short memory, and can overcome any demons that remain.

[AtlantaDan]

I'm not trying to necessarily blame the OL for everything. However, IMO they are a contributing factor.

I've been noticing how Foster isn't able to get to his assignments when pulling.

Foster is done. I was surprised the Steelers did not let him walk at the end of 2018 after a mediocre season and sign Finney to a long term deal. Maybe with the locker room in flames a year ago Tomlin & Colbert wanted to retain some of the adult supervision (aka "veteran leadership").

Now they probably need to find a left guard off the free agent scrap heap in 2020.

From the Post-Gazette chat today (I think this is Ray Fittipaldo but the P-G writers are on a byline strike in a doomed attempt to stop the publisher from letting the P-G wither away).

Are we likely to lose B.J. Finney to FA? Why has he not been signed since Foster is not as good a run blocker?

Steelers insider: Finney will be an unrestricted free agent so he'll have a chance to be a starter and make starter-like money somewhere next season. I doubt it's with the Steelers. Like you said, they had a chance to sign him last offseason and decided to re-sign Foster. I think they'll cut Foster because he's clearly at the end of the line, but I'm not sure Finney is their next starter.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/12/17/Post-Gazette-Steelers-chat-12-17-19/stories/201912170128

[pczach]

Foster is done. I was surprised the Steelers did not let him walk at the end of 2018 after a mediocre season and sign Finney to a long term deal. Maybe with the locker room in flames a year ago Tomlin & Colbert wanted to retain some of the adult supervision (aka "veteran leadership").

Now they probably need to find a left guard off the free agent scrap heap in 2020.

From the Post-Gazette chat today (I think this is Ray Fittipaldo but the P-G writers are on a byline strike in a doomed attempt to stop the publisher from letting the P-G wither away).

Are we likely to lose B.J. Finney to FA? Why has he not been signed since Foster is not as good a run blocker?

Steelers insider: Finney will be an unrestricted free agent so he'll have a chance to be a starter and make starter-like money somewhere next season. I doubt it's with the Steelers. Like you said, they had a chance to sign him last offseason and decided to re-sign Foster. I think they'll cut Foster because he's clearly at the end of the line, but I'm not sure Finney is their next starter.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/12/17/Post-Gazette-Steelers-chat-12-17-19/stories/201912170128




Thanks for the link.

[Mojouw]

Foster is done. I was surprised the Steelers did not let him walk at the end of 2018 after a mediocre season and sign Finney to a long term deal. Maybe with the locker room in flames a year ago Tomlin & Colbert wanted to retain some of the adult supervision (aka "veteran leadership").

Now they probably need to find a left guard off the free agent scrap heap in 2020.

From the Post-Gazette chat today (I think this is Ray Fittipaldo but the P-G writers are on a byline strike in a doomed attempt to stop the publisher from letting the P-G wither away).

Are we likely to lose B.J. Finney to FA? Why has he not been signed since Foster is not as good a run blocker?

Steelers insider: Finney will be an unrestricted free agent so he'll have a chance to be a starter and make starter-like money somewhere next season. I doubt it's with the Steelers. Like you said, they had a chance to sign him last offseason and decided to re-sign Foster. I think they'll cut Foster because he's clearly at the end of the line, but I'm not sure Finney is their next starter.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/12/17/Post-Gazette-Steelers-chat-12-17-19/stories/201912170128


Even if they lose them both, there is a potential smooth transition available. Fieler to LG and Banner to RT with Chuks stepping up as the swing tackle. No about that depth...

- - - Updated - - -


I'm not trying to necessarily blame the OL for everything. However, IMO they are a contributing factor.

I've been noticing how Foster isn't able to get to his assignments when pulling. Pouncey has been a disaster this year with bad snaps. Pouncey has caused almost as many turnovers as the quarterbacks with some of his bad snaps. He is also not the same factor he used to be in the run game. I know that they are still a good pass protection OL, but they haven't been able to run block well enough and consistently enough to take pressure off of the young QBs. The OL was not the reason they lost this game. Hodges completely shit the bed. What we saw was a systematic breakdown as the game went on. The interceptions at the end of the game were just awful. They were simply panic throws as he became more and more confused and shell shocked as the game went on.

You are correct about Duck getting himself sacked when he leaves a solid pocket and moves right into the pressure. He still does that more than we would like.

This is similar to what happened to Rudolph, but it happened against a really good defense and we can't forget that Duck is a rookie with four starts under his belt. This game matters, but what matters more is how he responds to this game and how well he plays in the next game.

Quarterbacking is like taking an exam every week. Defenses are going to try to give you questions you haven't answered before. The quarterback then either answers those questions, or gets them wrong. Defenses will continue to ask a quarterback that same question until he shows he has an answer for it. If he does, it's on to the next question. If he doesn't, he will always be limited and never become a fully competent quarterback. The quarterbacks that have the most answers to what defenses are trying to do to them are the best and most complete quarterbacks.

Defensive coordinators systematically attack quarterbacks to find out what they can or can't do. Once the blueprint is out there, defenses try to game plan to make QBs play to their weaknesses, while offenses try to design plays to make QBs play to their strengths.

Of course, everything I say above that defenses do is contingent upon the quality of the personnel on each defense, and how well they disguise what they are trying to do.

Let's hope Duck has a handle on more things this week. He will get tested. I don't know that the Jets have the personnel to do what the Bills did, but they will try.

Let's also hope that Duck has a short memory, and can overcome any demons that remain.

Foster and Pouncey have both struggled in the run game against higher end defenses or individual players for a season or so now.

Agree with everything you said about QB play. I just think that with better QB play, let alone Ben R prime level QB play, no one really notices the line.

Although I will say that they had their share of brain cramps last night. For instance, Feiler leaving a DE/LB for Conner so he can slide out and take the DB does not seem to be a good process...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Even if they lose them both, there is a potential smooth transition available. Fieler to LG and Banner to RT with Chuks stepping up as the swing tackle.

- - - Updated - - -



..
I think Feiler is better at guard.

[Mojouw]

I think Feiler is better at guard.

Do you think that Banner or Chuks can handle RT? Or IF Feiler kicks inside, do they have to go outside the organization for a RT?

[HollywoodSteel]

Do you think Pouncey has some kind of hand or arm injury that we don’t know about? How does someone get worse at snapping the ball?

This might sound totally ridiculous, but do different QBs stand in slightly different spots or hold their hands at different heights? I’m just wondering if there’s anything to it not being Ben that he’s snapping it to.

[Mojouw]

Do you think Pouncey has some kind of hand or arm injury that we don’t know about? How does someone get worse at snapping the ball?

This might sound totally ridiculous, but do different QBs stand in slightly different spots or hold their hands at different heights? I’m just wondering if there’s anything to it not being Ben that he’s snapping it to.

That's a good point. I don't know, but I imagine doing the same thing for 15 years with one person and then trying to do it with another has to have an impact, right?

Maybe it is like Tomlin says, Pouncey knows Ben will cover for his less than ideal snaps at times and it allows him to get onto his blocks a beat earlier?

[teegre]

Foster has never been a good run-blocker. He’s been a very good pass-blocker (which is great when Ben is your QB).

My current mock draft:
R2: Jacob Eason, QB, Washington
R3 (comp): O-line
R4: O-line
R4: O-line

Re-sign Dupree
Hope to re-sign Hargrave*

*(Considering how the Steelers have been using a 2-man D-line, Tuitt returning might not make this as much of a priority as it seemed a few months ago.)

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Do you think that Banner or Chuks can handle RT? Or IF Feiler kicks inside, do they have to go outside the organization for a RT? Yes, I am actually a bit disappointed that Chukks didn't take the swing tackle position in the preseason, but Banner looked good enough in pass pro in the preseason, that I think he can be a solid RT.

I am actually curious at how Derwin Gray will progress at guard over the offseason. He showed better feet than what I thought he had coming out of college and I think sliding inside to G is his best move. Hopefully his O line coach can teach him the technique well enough to make the transition.

[Fire Goodell]

Yes, I am actually a bit disappointed that Chukks didn't take the swing tackle position in the preseason, but Banner looked good enough in pass pro in the preseason, that I think he can be a solid RT.

I am actually curious at how Derwin Gray will progress at guard over the offseason. He showed better feet than what I thought he had coming out of college and I think sliding inside to G is his best move. Hopefully his O line coach can teach him the technique well enough to make the transition.

Derwin Gray has the look of a road grader, the dude looks like a monster

[Mojouw]

Yes, I am actually a bit disappointed that Chukks didn't take the swing tackle position in the preseason, but Banner looked good enough in pass pro in the preseason, that I think he can be a solid RT.

I am actually curious at how Derwin Gray will progress at guard over the offseason. He showed better feet than what I thought he had coming out of college and I think sliding inside to G is his best move. Hopefully his O line coach can teach him the technique well enough to make the transition.

I think if Gray could become the top back-up at G, Chuks the top OT back-up -- that would only leave them short a C even if Finney and Foster had to be allowed to leave in the off-season. Honestly, the more I think about it (and I mean like 2 minutes) finances may dictate that the OL group looks like this next year:

AV/Feiler/Pouncey/DeCastro/Banner with Chuks and Gray the top back-ups. Meaning two more depth spots are needed. Maybe they circle back around to Fred Johnson (is that the dude?) and hope he comes free at the end of the year and wants to play center...?

Anyways, that group of linemen is fairly cheap and allows cap $$$ to be directed towards Dupree and (hopefully) Hargrave.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Derwin Gray has the look of a road grader, the dude looks like a monster

He is a big guy with long arms that actually came into the combine and showed decent movement skills, where he could be a RT IMO. One knock on him was that he needs to improve in run blocking. Has the OT frame. I think he can develop into a backup next season.

- - - Updated - - -


I think if Gray could become the top back-up at G, Chuks the top OT back-up -- that would only leave them short a C even if Finney and Foster had to be allowed to leave in the off-season. Honestly, the more I think about it (and I mean like 2 minutes) finances may dictate that the OL group looks like this next year:

AV/Feiler/Pouncey/DeCastro/Banner with Chuks and Gray the top back-ups. Meaning two more depth spots are needed. Maybe they circle back around to Fred Johnson (is that the dude?) and hope he comes free at the end of the year and wants to play center...?

Anyways, that group of linemen is fairly cheap and allows cap $$$ to be directed towards Dupree and (hopefully) Hargrave.

Yeah, will have to see if Steelers can use the $4million in cap space by cutting Foster in the offseason? If they can handle it, I think Foster stays another season. Othewise your lineup looks decent and I think Patrick Morris is the short term answer as reserve G/C. Although if Fred Johnson comes available, he becomes the top reserve and I think they tried him at Center a bit in camp.

Tomlin gives his coaches too long of a leash IMO and if history tells us anything, I think Sarrett is still around next season, so I hope he can coach up young linemen.

[Steeldude]

Not a knock, they overachieved this season for what they had, just the lack of playmakers is not gonna get it done against playoff caliber teams

Lack of coaching is the big problem.

[Mojouw]

Lack of coaching is the big problem.

If you are just going to complain, at least take the time to make your complaint interesting. Like some colorful language, or a bizarre series of metaphors, or like, even one specific other than "bad coaching". This was the perfect week to breakout the old chestnut of "lazy players". You could have really gone after Pouncey and Feiler with that one, maybe eve Foster. I mean you could have even went after Dupree on a night where he didn't do as much as he could have against a lower tier OT. Or even Nelson as an overpaid FA waste after he let Brown get loose for the game altering catch.

You are slipping. We can't just hand you the position of starting board grump. You have to earn it. Hopefully you can sharpen your skills this week, actually get some good coaching (apparently really important), and justify the high draft pick that was used to select you in the "Grumpy Message Board" draft.

[Steeldude]

If you are just going to complain, at least take the time to make your complaint interesting. Like some colorful language, or a bizarre series of metaphors, or like, even one specific other than "bad coaching". This was the perfect week to breakout the old chestnut of "lazy players". You could have really gone after Pouncey and Feiler with that one, maybe eve Foster. I mean you could have even went after Dupree on a night where he didn't do as much as he could have against a lower tier OT. Or even Nelson as an overpaid FA waste after he let Brown get loose for the game altering catch.

You are slipping. We can't just hand you the position of starting board grump. You have to earn it. Hopefully you can sharpen your skills this week, actually get some good coaching (apparently really important), and justify the high draft pick that was used to select you in the "Grumpy Message Board" draft.

Stop your whining, liberal. Not everyone is go along with your narrative. Why are liberals such authoritarians?

If you don't like my posts then block me. Whining like a typical liberal only gets you worked up. Haha.

[Mojouw]

Stop your whining, liberal. Not everyone is go along with your narrative. Why are liberals such authoritarians?

If you don't like my posts then block me. Whining like a typical liberal only gets you worked up. Haha.
Now you're rounding into form! I knew you could do it! Was afraid we would have to use a high draft pick on another message board grump. Looks like you pulled it together. Now maybe we can finally get Shoes that TE...

Make Acerbic Gripes Again!

[fansince'76]

Rudolph has the feet of Dan Marino...he’s a statue out there.

Without the lightning-quick release and accuracy...

[DesertSteel]

Without the lightning-quick release and accuracy...
Very astute observation.

[Steeldude]

Now you're rounding into form! I knew you could do it! Was afraid we would have to use a high draft pick on another message board grump. Looks like you pulled it together. Now maybe we can finally get Shoes that TE...

Make Acerbic Gripes Again!

There you go. Thanks for proving my point about liberals. Your trolling needs a lot of work. Haha

[AtlantaDan]

If you are just going to complain, at least take the time to make your complaint interesting. Like some colorful language, or a bizarre series of metaphors, or like, even one specific other than "bad coaching". This was the perfect week to breakout the old chestnut of "lazy players". You could have really gone after Pouncey and Feiler with that one, maybe eve Foster.

FWIW I thought Feiler made one of the hustle plays of the year in not giving up and preventing a pick six by knocking White out of bounds inside the 15 after Duck threw the killer INT.

[pczach]

Lack of coaching is the big problem.


So you think this current group of players that have been on the field for the majority of this season should dominate the NFL and would win the Super Bowl if not for bad coaching?

I think that the injuries have diminished the talent so much that they are struggling to get things done on the offensive side. I think the coaching has been stellar this year to have them where they currently are record wise.

There have been legitimate gripes about coaching in other years, but I just don't see how coaching can be knocked for much this year.

[Shoes]

Now you're rounding into form! I knew you could do it! Was afraid we would have to use a high draft pick on another message board grump. Looks like you pulled it together. Now maybe we can finally get Shoes that TE...

Make Acerbic Gripes Again!


Well, this seems like a stinky TE class in 2020, so might as well wait until Heath Miller sons grow up. :chuckle:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Well, this seems like a stinky TE class in 2020, so might as well wait until Heath Miller sons grow up. :chuckle:

Curious to see what Adam Trautman looks like at the Senior Bowl.

[Shoes]

Curious to see what Adam Trautman looks like at the Senior Bowl.

Wasn't he a QB at one time?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Wasn't he a QB at one time? Right you are.

Brycen Hopkins from Purdue, Jared Pinkney Vanderbilt, Josiah Deguara from Cincy and Stephen Sullivan from LSU are all attending. Should be a good week to see some TE's and maybe find a gem.

[Shoes]

Right you are.

Brycen Hopkins from Purdue, Jared Pinkney Vanderbilt, Josiah Deguara from Cincy and Stephen Sullivan from LSU are all attending. Should be a good week to see some TE's and maybe find a gem.

I've watched a little film on Deguara. He seems to have a blocking body but catches the ball better than he blocks. :lol:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI56DoECROw

[Steeler-in-west]

So you think this current group of players that have been on the field for the majority of this season should dominate the NFL and would win the Super Bowl if not for bad coaching?

I think that the injuries have diminished the talent so much that they are struggling to get things done on the offensive side. I think the coaching has been stellar this year to have them where they currently are record wise.

There have been legitimate gripes about coaching in other years, but I just don't see how coaching can be knocked for much this year.

I’m convinced the one significant injury was to Ben. The lack of good backup play has brought us to this point. If we had a qb that could hit the open receivers consistently we’d be 10-4 easily right now. Wr’s and rb’s haven been stepping up, it’s just the qb play that has made this season a struggle. This team is really good otherwise

[pczach]

I’m convinced the one significant injury was to Ben. The lack of good backup play has brought us to this point. If we had a qb that could hit the open receivers consistently we’d be 10-4 easily right now. Wr’s and rb’s haven been stepping up, it’s just the qb play that has made this season a struggle. This team is really good otherwise



I agree. I'm just trying to understand how Steeldude sees it.

If Ben were healthy with this current group, I believe they would have more wins and be in a better position to make a deep playoff run.

It's hard for me to grasp how a coach that is on his fourth-string QB with a ton of other injuries on the offensive side of the ball and in contention to make the playoffs is the problem this year. Most teams would be closer to contending for the #1 pick in the upcoming draft if they were dealt that hand IMO.

[86WARD]

Foster has never been a good run-blocker. He’s been a very good pass-blocker (which is great when Ben is your QB).

My current mock draft:
R2: Jacob Eason, QB, Washington
R3 (comp): O-line
R4: O-line
R4: O-line

Re-sign Dupree
Hope to re-sign Hargrave*

*(Considering how the Steelers have been using a 2-man D-line, Tuitt returning might not make this as much of a priority as it seemed a few months ago.)

Are they using 2 man D-Line because Tuitt is out where they normally would use more 3 man?

[86WARD]

I agree. I'm just trying to understand how Steeldude sees it.

If Ben were healthy with this current group, I believe they would have more wins and be in a better position to make a deep playoff run.

It's hard for me to grasp how a coach that is on his fourth-string QB with a ton of other injuries on the offensive side of the ball and in contention to make the playoffs is the problem this year. Most teams would be closer to contending for the #1 pick in the upcoming draft if they were dealt that hand IMO.

Special Teams, for the most part is still a disaster. Coaching in that aspect of the game still suffers. Play calling IMO has been questionable on offense. Butler seems to finally have the personnel to run the defense he wants or he has made adjustments from last year to this year. He’s done a great job. Tomlin is coach of the year IMO. He’s absolutely faced the most adversity of any head coach and has this team in the playoffs. If they make the playoffs, it’s shouldn’t be close as to who the coach of the year is.

[teegre]

Are they using 2 man D-Line because Tuitt is out where they normally would use more 3 man?

Good question. IMO, they had been using a 3-man front, but necessity is the mother of invention: Tuitt goes down and they’re forced to use a 2-man front... and it has worked better.

[Mojouw]

Well, this seems like a stinky TE class in 2020, so might as well wait until Heath Miller sons grow up. :chuckle:

Maybe the Rooneys can invest some money on the dark web and get a Heath Miller clone spun up?

[Fire Goodell]

Andrew Brister, the new franchise QB in 4 years? :chuckle:

https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/sports/high-school/2019/11/27/brister-blazes-his-own-path-nevilles-qb/4282162002/

In all seriousness he's already 6'4 and runs the 40 in 4.78, might be more talented than his dad

[EzraTank]

This team really doesn't belong in the playoffs. Their offense is really pathetic.

[NCSteeler]

I agree. I'm just trying to understand how Steeldude sees it.

If Ben were healthy with this current group, I believe they would have more wins and be in a better position to make a deep playoff run.

It's hard for me to grasp how a coach that is on his fourth-string QB with a ton of other injuries on the offensive side of the ball and in contention to make the playoffs is the problem this year. Most teams would be closer to contending for the #1 pick in the upcoming draft if they were dealt that hand IMO.I think it's easy to agree that fitchners in game okay calls are atrocious. But coaching let's see were starting one second year and a undrafted rookie and yet we don't even have a QB coach on staff. How's that supposed to work? How can we develop the next QB without a coach to help them along?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[Neversatisfied]

The offensive struggles were unfolding last season. The Steelers organization knew Bell was gone but believed Conner could replace him. They knew AB was leaving but thought JuJu would fill his shoes. They had no question Rudolph was good enough to not only be a good backup but be the answer for the future. They allowed Jesse James to walk and didn't blink. Ben in or out this season tells you the Steelers were totally sold on the "talent" positions they have on offense. They were wrong.

[86WARD]

The offensive struggles were unfolding last season. The Steelers organization knew Bell was gone but believed Conner could replace him. They knew AB was leaving but thought JuJu would fill his shoes. They had no question Rudolph was good enough to not only be a good backup but be the answer for the future. They allowed Jesse James to walk and didn't blink. Ben in or out this season tells you the Steelers were totally sold on the "talent" positions they have on offense. They were wrong.

Jesse James Walker for the money. Triple the cash, half the stats...lol