Coverages Against Beckham

[Mojouw]

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/12/film-room-how-the-steelers-took-away-odell-beckham-jr/

I really enjoyed this one. Interesting thoughts that in addition to MF solidifying the secondary, the insertion of Sutton into the Dime package has allowed the pass coverages to be more complex and involve more disguise.

Gotta figure swapping out Nelson for Burns/Sensabaugh, Sutton for Kelly/Bostic/Burnett/Whoever, and MF/Davis just allows the defense to do more. All those players are physically more talented and mentally superior to the guys they replaced.

Now, I do have one interesting (at least to me) thought problem...is Sean Davis a better SS than Terrell Edmunds? If so, do you attempt to resign him to a team friendly 3 year deal and shuffle Edmunds down to a 3rd safety/moneybacker role since he is on a cheap rookie deal? It would solve the depth at safety issue...but could represent throwing in the towel on a 1st round pick...

[Fire Goodell]

yawn

[steelreserve]

Now, I do have one interesting (at least to me) thought problem...is Sean Davis a better SS than Terrell Edmunds? If so, do you attempt to resign him to a team friendly 3 year deal and shuffle Edmunds down to a 3rd safety/moneybacker role since he is on a cheap rookie deal? It would solve the depth at safety issue...but could represent throwing in the towel on a 1st round pick...

To hell with Davis. When he was no longer on the field, the defense improved by leaps and bounds. Edmunds is doing fine now. Why fuck with it? All signs point toward Davis being a problem, not a solution.

Honestly, Davis has not been very successful anywhere he's been tried in college or the pros. Just prized for his athleticism and "upside."

I have a feeling that if we moved him to SS, he'd have the same problems. Wrong first instinct. Half a step out of position to make a play. We're chasing down guys from behind on another 40-yard blown coverage. Why take that risk when you already have another guy doing well? It's a huge gamble with no payoff. Forget about it.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

To hell with Davis. When he was no longer on the field, the defense improved by leaps and bounds. Edmunds is doing fine now. Why fuck with it? All signs point toward Davis being a problem, not a solution.

Honestly, Davis has not been very successful anywhere he's been tried in college or the pros. Just prized for his athleticism and "upside."

I have a feeling that if we moved him to SS, he'd have the same problems. Wrong first instinct. Half a step out of position to make a play. We're chasing down guys from behind on another 40-yard blown coverage. Why take that risk when you already have another guy doing well? It's a huge gamble with no payoff. Forget about it. Agreed and though I think Emdunds is proving not to be worth the 1st rd pick. He's decent at times and think Davis is not very good all and don't fix what ain't broke.

[Shoes]

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/12/film-room-how-the-steelers-took-away-odell-beckham-jr/

I really enjoyed this one. Interesting thoughts that in addition to MF solidifying the secondary, the insertion of Sutton into the Dime package has allowed the pass coverages to be more complex and involve more disguise.

Gotta figure swapping out Nelson for Burns/Sensabaugh, Sutton for Kelly/Bostic/Burnett/Whoever, and MF/Davis just allows the defense to do more. All those players are physically more talented and mentally superior to the guys they replaced.

Now, I do have one interesting (at least to me) thought problem...is Sean Davis a better SS than Terrell Edmunds? If so, do you attempt to resign him to a team friendly 3 year deal and shuffle Edmunds down to a 3rd safety/moneybacker role since he is on a cheap rookie deal? It would solve the depth at safety issue...but could represent throwing in the towel on a 1st round pick...


I don't know if Davis is better overall but I do think he tackles better. I do like your idea though.

[teegre]

I like the idea of Terrell Edmunds playing in Mark Barron’s role. First of all, no Mark Barron. Secondly, Edmunds seems to have little “ball awareness”; he’s in good position, but rarely looks back for the ball... which brings on PI penalties. Thirdly, at VaTech, I heard that he was recruited as an ILB, but switched to SS (as in: he might be a better ILB/SS).

That said, I have seen improvement. As steelreserve stated, Edmunds is no longer compensating for the shitshow at CB. And, his coach at VaTech said Edmunds was his “best player” (and, that was on a team with his younger brother: Tremaine).

I understand the idea of moving Sean Davis to SS. I do. But, that is actually where he started his NFL career, and he wasn’t very good in that role; switching to FS actually improved his play.

Davis would be an outstanding backup... if he were to take a smaller contract. He can/has played every position in the secondary; so, the Steelers would be able to carry one less DB on game day (and keep an extra player at another “needed” position).

SUMMATION:
Hope that Davis signs a team-friendly contract.

[Shoes]

I like the idea of Terrell Edmunds playing in Mark Barron’s role. First of all, no Mark Barron. Secondly, Edmunds seems to have little “ball awareness”; he’s in good position, but rarely looks back for the ball... which brings on PI penalties. Thirdly, at VaTech, I heard that he was recruited as an ILB, but switched to SS (as in: he might be a better ILB/SS).

That said, I have seen improvement. As steelreserve stated, Edmunds is no longer compensating for the shitshow at CB. And, his coach at VaTech said Edmunds was his “best player” (and, that was on a team with his younger brother: Tremaine).

I understand the idea of moving Sean Davis to SS. I do. But, that is actually where he started his NFL career, and he wasn’t very good in that role; switching to FS actually improved his play.

Davis would be an outstanding backup... if he were to take a smaller contract. He can/has played every position in the secondary; so, the Steelers would be able to carry one less DB on game day (and keep an extra player at another “needed” position).

SUMMATION:
Hope that Davis signs a team-friendly contract.

I like this.

[HollywoodSteel]

I like the idea of Terrell Edmunds playing in Mark Barron’s role. First of all, no Mark Barron. Secondly, Edmunds seems to have little “ball awareness”; he’s in good position, but rarely looks back for the ball... which brings on PI penalties. Thirdly, at VaTech, I heard that he was recruited as an ILB, but switched to SS (as in: he might be a better ILB/SS).

That said, I have seen improvement. As steelreserve stated, Edmunds is no longer compensating for the shitshow at CB. And, his coach at VaTech said Edmunds was his “best player” (and, that was on a team with his younger brother: Tremaine).

I understand the idea of moving Sean Davis to SS. I do. But, that is actually where he started his NFL career, and he wasn’t very good in that role; switching to FS actually improved his play.

Davis would be an outstanding backup... if he were to take a smaller contract. He can/has played every position in the secondary; so, the Steelers would be able to carry one less DB on game day (and keep an extra player at another “needed” position).

SUMMATION:
Hope that Davis signs a team-friendly contract.

I don’t know if Edmunds will ever be a super star, but because he’s such a gifted athlete, with a very good work ethic, I believe he’ll continue to improve. I can’t say the same about Davis.

But I do agree that Davis is excellent for depth. He isn’t a stud, but is versatile and pretty good if the pieces around him are good.

[steelreserve]

I like the idea of Terrell Edmunds playing in Mark Barron’s role. First of all, no Mark Barron. Secondly, Edmunds seems to have little “ball awareness”; he’s in good position, but rarely looks back for the ball... which brings on PI penalties. Thirdly, at VaTech, I heard that he was recruited as an ILB, but switched to SS (as in: he might be a better ILB/SS).

That said, I have seen improvement. As steelreserve stated, Edmunds is no longer compensating for the shitshow at CB. And, his coach at VaTech said Edmunds was his “best player” (and, that was on a team with his younger brother: Tremaine).

I understand the idea of moving Sean Davis to SS. I do. But, that is actually where he started his NFL career, and he wasn’t very good in that role; switching to FS actually improved his play.

Davis would be an outstanding backup... if he were to take a smaller contract. He can/has played every position in the secondary; so, the Steelers would be able to carry one less DB on game day (and keep an extra player at another “needed” position).

SUMMATION:
Hope that Davis signs a team-friendly contract.

You might think I'm a hater for saying this, but - I do not want Davis back at any price. Not even as a backup on a backup's salary.

Every role we have tried him in, he has been a liability. Not only that, but he makes other players around him worse too. Even in a backup, you don't want that. He is just a guy that you do not want on the field. And that does not help your team at all.

Rarely has there ever been a single roster move that was such an "A-HA!" moment - like, "Oh man, THAT was the problem all along, and we just fixed it all at once!"

You don't get those kinds of changes by replacing one ok player with a star player - you just get an incremental improvement. You only get these kinds of transformational shifts when the new star player also replaces someone who was causing a fatal problem that was dragging the whole unit down.

[teegre]

I don’t know if Edmunds will ever be a super star, but because he’s such a gifted athlete, with a very good work ethic, I believe he’ll continue to improve.

Terrell Edmunds has progressed each season.

Season 1: out of position

Season 2: in position, but does not locate the ball/does not turn around (gets called for PI)

Season 3: in position, turns head (no PI), passes fall incomplete

Season 4: in position, turns head, knocks ball away (a lot)

Season 5: in position, turns head, knocks ball away (a lot), gets an INT or two

et cetera

[HollywoodSteel]

Terrell Edmunds has progressed each season.

Season 1: out of position

Season 2: in position, but does not locate the ball/does not turn around (gets called for PI)

Season 3: in position, turns head (no PI), passes fall incomplete

Season 4: in position, turns head, knocks ball away (a lot)

Season 5: in position, turns head, knocks ball away (a lot), gets an INT or two

et cetera

Holy shit! He’s played 5 seasons already? I must have been in a coma for the last 3.

But seriously, I like your optimism and I tend to share it. It’s kind of why I was on the Bud Dupree optimism train as well.

Then again, I actually was thinking Artie Burns would take a leap forward this year as well, but the optimism train takes many stops, and occasionally players get off.

But Edmunds has a good pedigree and I believe a very strong will to improve. I’d certainly bet on his steady improvement as time goes on. Especially next to Minkah.

[HollywoodSteel]

You might think I'm a hater for saying this, but - I do not want Davis back at any price. Not even as a backup on a backup's salary.

Every role we have tried him in, he has been a liability. Not only that, but he makes other players around him worse too. Even in a backup, you don't want that. He is just a guy that you do not want on the field. And that does not help your team at all.

Rarely has there ever been a single roster move that was such an "A-HA!" moment - like, "Oh man, THAT was the problem all along, and we just fixed it all at once!"

You don't get those kinds of changes by replacing one ok player with a star player - you just get an incremental improvement. You only get these kinds of transformational shifts when the new star player also replaces someone who was causing a fatal problem that was dragging the whole unit down.

Minkah replacing anyone would probably make the previous player look bad by comparison, but I do see your point.

At the same time, the one thing we haven’t seen Davis do is play next to Minkah. Don’t get me wrong, I would not want Davis starting over Edmunds, but I don’t think I’d mind him as Edmunds’s primary back up. If Edmunds were to go down I think Davis could probably step in for awhile without the defense falling apart. Or at least I wouldn’t mind taking that chance at a very reasonable price.

It really will be interesting to see what happens this off season. I can’t see him commanding much in free agency. But you never know in this league.

I can see Tomlin wanting to keep him, but only on a very team friendly deal. It might be better to go with cheap young guys as back ups, and throw any extra money to Dupree or Hargrave.

[steelreserve]

Minkah replacing anyone would probably make the previous player look bad by comparison, but I do see your point.

At the same time, the one thing we haven’t seen Davis do is play next to Minkah. Don’t get me wrong, I would not want Davis starting over Edmunds, but I don’t think I’d mind him as Edmunds’s primary back up. If Edmunds were to go down I think Davis could probably step in for awhile without the defense falling apart. Or at least I wouldn’t mind taking that chance at a very reasonable price.

It really will be interesting to see what happens this off season. I can’t see him commanding much in free agency. But you never know in this league.

I can see Tomlin wanting to keep him, but only on a very team friendly deal. It might be better to go with cheap young guys as back ups, and throw any extra money to Dupree or Hargrave.

Davis is not the absolute worst DB out there (our #1 draft pick from the same year earns that distinction), but he is still not good enough to want him on the field. At this point, I think we're better off trying out some new faces and see if maybe we find someone who can play well enough to be a backup. We are fortunate that our starting 4 look to be in no danger of going anywhere for the next 2-3 years, so the urgency is less.