TE is a QB's Best Friend??

[DesertSteel]

Whatever happened to the TE being the QB's best friend? This team has 312 yards to TEs all season -- 26 yards a game. If any offense/QB needed some help from the TE, this one does? Vannet and McD are serviceable and capable of more. What would really be nice is an elite pass catching TE in the draft next year. But would we even utilize him effectively?

Why isn't this team, with backup QBs, utilizing the safety blanket of the TE?

[Mojouw]

I suspect it is because the first back-up QB to get some run this season never made it through his reads to the TE and if he did, declined to throw it into coverage to the TE.

Hodges already looked McDonald's way more in one game than Rudolph did in any 2 games prior.

[steelreserve]

Rudolph would glance at the #1 receiver and then immediately panic and dump it to the running back, skipping all the other reads including the TE.

Or, if he didn't immediately dump it, he would progress S-L-O-W-L-Y through the other WRs and rarely make it to the tight end. Overall just a bad situation for them, having to do more with the QB than anything else.

[Shoes]

That ended when Miller retired. Top QB & top TE will always be money in the bank.

[DesertSteel]

I suspect it is because the first back-up QB to get some run this season never made it through his reads to the TE and if he did, declined to throw it into coverage to the TE.

Hodges already looked McDonald's way more in one game than Rudolph did in any 2 games prior.
4 targets for 28 yards?

[Mojouw]

4 targets for 28 yards?
I thought it was more than that.

Believe it or not, he has been targeted on almost 12% of passes attempted by Steelers QBs in 2019 - -https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2019.htm

Which is actually MORE than last season (around 10%) -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2018.htm

[DesertSteel]

I thought it was more than that.

Believe it or not, he has been targeted on almost 12% of passes attempted by Steelers QBs in 2019 - -https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2019.htm

Which is actually MORE than last season (around 10%) -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2018.htm
Watching Rudolph for the Vikings last night made me realize how much we're missing in this offense without a playmaking TE.

[Fire Goodell]

Jay Samuels is a TE :wink02:

[DesertSteel]

Jay Samuels is a TE :wink02:
I’d actually love it if they put 25 pounds on him and moved him to TE.

[43Hitman]

Tight ends against Arizona are catching like 75% of balls being thrown their way, 13 tds so far this year and have almost 1000 yards. Interestingly enough the Seahawks are the second worst at defending TE's and Vance caught two TD's that day with MR throwing it. So expect Vance to have a good day on Sunday.

We still need to draft a good one though. Poor Shoes. :chuckle:

[DesertSteel]

Tight ends against Arizona are catching like 75% of balls being thrown their way, 13 tds so far this year and have almost 1000 yards. Interestingly enough the Seahawks are the second worst at defending TE's and Vance caught two TD's that day with MR throwing it. So expect Vance to have a good day on Sunday.

We still need to draft a good one though. Poor Shoes. :chuckle:
I think you might need to send this memo to Fichtner so he’s aware of the trend.

[teegre]

The Taperiots are in the same boat: they have the fewest targets, completions, etc. to a TE in the entire league. In turn, the Texans could focus on doubling Edelman and putting a CB in White.

Luckily for the Steelers, McDonald is actually a very good TE (much better than anyone on the Taperiots roster). It’s just a matter of getting the ball to him... and, I do not mean via bubble screens.

[Dwinsgames]

I’d actually love it if they put 25 pounds on him and moved him to TE.


certainly has the hands but doesnt have the height to add 25 pounds and you want that LONG target at TE he just isnt gonna grow any taller ..

but man he has some nice hands and speed along with nifty moves for a TE

[Squeegee Thompson]

I think it's more of a quarterback issue than a TE issue. McDonald didn't just go from Mike Ditka 2.0 last year, steamrolling and stiff-arming defenders into a guy stealing a paycheck overnight. What changed? He doesn't have a HOF QB feeding him the ball on time, in space when he can do all of his YAC magic.

If Vance was pedestrian with Ben under center, then I'd be really concerned. It sucks, because the one year this guy finally stays healthy - Ben goes on the shelf. TE#2 or #3 can be upgraded, but that can be done on day 2 or even day 3. This team has much more pressing needs than TE, IMO. WR, RB, LG, ILB all seem like bigger holes to fill than TE in the offseason.

[DesertSteel]

certainly has the hands but doesnt have the height to add 25 pounds and you want that LONG target at TE he just isnt gonna grow any taller ..

but man he has some nice hands and speed along with nifty moves for a TE
I tend to think we create the rigid job requirements for positions that need to be re-evaluated. Just like the belief that QBs had to be at least 6’2”. The bottom line is that talent wins the day.

[Six Rings]

Whatever happened to the TE being the QB's best friend? This team has 312 yards to TEs all season -- 26 yards a game. If any offense/QB needed some help from the TE, this one does? Vannet and McD are serviceable and capable of more. What would really be nice is an elite pass catching TE in the draft next year. But would we even utilize him effectively?

Why isn't this team, with backup QBs, utilizing the safety blanket of the TE?

Our TE's are blocking, and because we aren't using play action are often left out of the passing game. Samules or a back who can catch is the QB's best friend.

[Rotorhead]

. . . If Vance was pedestrian with Ben under center, then I'd be really concerned. It sucks, because the one year this guy finally stays healthy - Ben goes on the shelf. TE#2 or #3 can be upgraded, but that can be done on day 2 or even day 3. This team has much more pressing needs than TE, IMO. WR, RB, LG, ILB all seem like bigger holes to fill than TE in the offseason.

I think we are fine at ILB and RB. We will need to start retooling our OL soon, but honestly if we keep this core intact with a couple replacements/upgrades, next year could be our year with Ben back and this defense improving on this year.
I think we beat Seattle, the 49ers and the Ravens with Ben under center this season and this defense.

[hawaiiansteeler]

no team had fewer receiving yards from the tight end position than the Steelers this past season...

[Mojouw]

no team had fewer receiving yards from the tight end position than the Steelers this past season...

I'm gonna go ahead and guess they had the fewest receiving yards at a number of positions.

An interesting note about the draft and TEs for the Steelers. So far, since 2016 there are two TEs that the Steelers were in a realistic position to draft that have demonstrated offense changing abilities; Mark Andrews and George Kittle.

In both cases, they took a QB instead.

Take a look at this: http://pfref.com/tiny/F6kG6

There are not many TEs floating around the NFL that have the all around skill set to dominate an offense the way Kelce and Kittle do. Based on that draft list (2014-19) NFL teams are AWFUL at projecting TEs.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess they had the fewest receiving yards at a number of positions.

An interesting note about the draft and TEs for the Steelers. So far, since 2016 there are two TEs that the Steelers were in a realistic position to draft that have demonstrated offense changing abilities; Mark Andrews and George Kittle.

In both cases, they took a QB instead.

Take a look at this: http://pfref.com/tiny/F6kG6

There are not many TEs floating around the NFL that have the all around skill set to dominate an offense the way Kelce and Kittle do. Based on that draft list (2014-19) NFL teams are AWFUL at projecting TEs.

With Andrews there were thoughts that he was just a receiving TE, because he rarely blocked in his college offense. There were also concerns about his drop rate and his knee injury in his draft year. But he put up good speed and movement numbers at the combine, so it was apparent he was back from the injury.

Still, a TE that doesn't block and drops the football kind of could make you weary, so its not a shock that he ended up in the 3rd round.

[Mojouw]

With Andrews there were thoughts that he was just a receiving TE, because he rarely blocked in his college offense. There were also concerns about his drop rate and his knee injury in his draft year. But he put up good speed and movement numbers at the combine, so it was apparent he was back from the injury.

Still, a TE that doesn't block and drops the football kind of could make you weary, so its not a shock that he ended up in the 3rd round.

I seem to remember that now that point it out. In fact, Baltimore seems to have agreed, since they took Hayden Hurst in the first round that year also.

I think that across the league, no one knows how to accurately project TE prospects. Too many either only block in college or don't block at all - so you only get half the picture. Plus, maybe 1 in 10 has an impactful rookie year, so the real evaluation is 2-3 seasons out.

Honestly, I don't think that there are really that many good TEs across the league right now. So I am not certain that I can really call the Steelers to task for not having one...dunno...just a half-formed thought. It does seem that the position is not high on their roster building priorities. They try to get one every other year or so, but not until later in the draft...

[GBMelBlount]

(Samuels) certainly has the hands but doesnt have the height to add 25 pounds and you want that LONG target at TE he just isnt gonna grow any taller ..

but man he has some nice hands and speed along with nifty moves for a TE

Since he has nice hands, speed and nifty moves why don't they put him at receiver?

He is the same size and speed as JuJu.

[Shoes]

"Tight end George Kittle (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/12276/george-kittle), a key cog in the San Francisco rushing attack, embraced the opportunities to block. Told that the team ran the ball 42 times, he said, “That’s awesome. I could have gone for 50.”


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/20/49ers-pass-catchers-have-no-qualms-about-blocking/


It's a crime that this guy isn't a Steeler. :chuckle:

[Shoes]

I seem to remember that now that point it out. In fact, Baltimore seems to have agreed, since they took Hayden Hurst in the first round that year also.

I think that across the league, no one knows how to accurately project TE prospects. Too many either only block in college or don't block at all - so you only get half the picture. Plus, maybe 1 in 10 has an impactful rookie year, so the real evaluation is 2-3 seasons out.

Honestly, I don't think that there are really that many good TEs across the league right now. So I am not certain that I can really call the Steelers to task for not having one...dunno...just a half-formed thought. It does seem that the position is not high on their roster building priorities. They try to get one every other year or so, but not until later in the draft...


It really wouldn't matter if there were. The Steelers seem to have lost their bearings on this position.

[Steeler-in-west]

I suspect it is because the first back-up QB to get some run this season never made it through his reads to the TE and if he did, declined to throw it into coverage to the TE.

Hodges already looked McDonald's way more in one game than Rudolph did in any 2 games prior.

why wasn’t he able to get through his reads or make passes to the TE? Was he incapable or was he not properly coached? Hard to say isn’t it? Maybe we’ll know more next year with a QB coach in place.

we do know that Dupree was pretty useless as a pass rusher until porter was replaced. So coaching does matter in that instance - maybe it matters with QB coaching as well

i’m also guessing (from just a fan’s perspective) that Fichtner was too busy drawing up his brilliant game plans and couldn’t pay enough attention to his young QB’s

Fichtner: I’m too busy with the game plan, i just can’t spend enough time with these guys

Rooney; ok, we’re getting a QB coach

i wouldn’t give too much credit to Hodges making a few more passes to the TE either, seems the opposing teams had him pretty figured out by the end of the season, there’s a reason why the team named Rudolph the first backup to Ben already for next season

[Mojouw]

why wasn’t he able to get through his reads or make passes to the TE? Was he incapable or was he not properly coached? Hard to say isn’t it? Maybe we’ll know more next year with a QB coach in place.

we do know that Dupree was pretty useless as a pass rusher until porter was replaced. So coaching does matter in that instance - maybe it matters with QB coaching as well

i’m also guessing (from just a fan’s perspective) that Fichtner was too busy drawing up his brilliant game plans and couldn’t pay enough attention to his young QB’s

Fichtner: I’m too busy with the game plan, i just can’t spend enough time with these guys

Rooney; ok, we’re getting a QB coach

i wouldn’t give too much credit to Hodges making a few more passes to the TE either, seems the opposing teams had him pretty figured out by the end of the season, there’s a reason why the team named Rudolph the first backup to Ben already for next season

Maybe? I don't think there is any amount of coaching that is going to make Rudolph better. His problem is squarely between his ears. He plays scared. Scared of making mistakes and scared of challenging DBs.

[Born2Steel]

What would Kittle have looked like in last season's offense? I don't think that was the issue.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Maybe? I don't think there is any amount of coaching that is going to make Rudolph better. His problem is squarely between his ears. He plays scared. Scared of making mistakes and scared of challenging DBs.

This is the kind of post from you that I just honestly don't understand. You are so open minded about new coaches, new ideas and the belief that there has to be innovation in football, that your posts don't normally carry such pessimism. Have you considered that there might be an issue that is something other than fear? Why did Rudolph throw into tight windows when returning from his being benched?

Have you looked at the Matt Canada video in the thread Shoes started? Its a great video to learn about the mechanics of QB play and a good starting point to use it and analyze Rudolph's weaknesses that lead to lack of production. I'm not attacking you, but honestly just bit confused of how you can be so optimistic of college coaches and college schemes being productive in the NFL, but so assertive of how a QB with such little experience can't improve.

[Mojouw]

This is the kind of post from you that I just honestly don't understand. You are so open minded about new coaches, new ideas and the belief that there has to be innovation in football, that your posts don't normally carry such pessimism. Have you considered that there might be an issue that is something other than fear? Why did Rudolph throw into tight windows when returning from his being benched?

Have you looked at the Matt Canada video in the thread Shoes started? Its a great video to learn about the mechanics of QB play and a good starting point to use it and analyze Rudolph's weaknesses that lead to lack of production. I'm not attacking you, but honestly just bit confused of how you can be so optimistic of college coaches and college schemes being productive in the NFL, but so assertive of how a QB with such little experience can't improve.

Because my source of optimism about coaches is centered around scheme and innovation that put players in positions to succeed. Say something along the lines of what we saw in both championship games on offense this past weekend.

My source of pessimism on Rudolph is that it doesn't matter what schematic position or scenario he is put in until he gets over the mental hurdles in his own head. It isn't that I don't think he can improve; it is that I think the first steps for improvement is totally psychological and on Rudolph to accomplish. Maybe that Jets game was the first glimmer of that. I don't know and, honestly, no one does.

I realize that Rudolph and Hodges have technique issues, as I am sure Ben does as well. You can always get better at your craft. So good for the team in getting them a coach/counselor. But I am remain convinced that Rudolph's biggest problems are not technique, understanding the offense, or even raw ability -- they stem from his fear of making mistakes. If the QB that flashed in the Jets game is what Rudolph's mentality looks like going forward, then there is something that a coach can work with.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I realize that Rudolph and Hodges have technique issues, as I am sure Ben does as well. You can always get better at your craft. So good for the team in getting them a coach/counselor. But I am remain convinced that Rudolph's biggest problems are not technique, understanding the offense, or even raw ability -- they stem from his fear of making mistakes. If the QB that flashed in the Jets game is what Rudolph's mentality looks like going forward, then there is something that a coach can work with.

Do you think that fear of making mistakes comes from pressure of the situation? Just the nature of competing in a results based environment and when he makes one mistake, he feels the pressure not to make another?

[Mojouw]

Do you think that fear of making mistakes comes from pressure of the situation? Just the nature of competing in a results based environment and when he makes one mistake, he feels the pressure not to make another?

I honestly don't know. It is just a feeling I have and I can't point to anything. Other than the fact that at college, he typically had no problem just airing the ball out and being aggressive. His first preseason, he seemed to be similar. This preseason and into the season, he seemed to be overly conscious of doing something "safe" with the ball. Maybe the coaching got in his head and he turned "It is okay to punt and trust your defense." into "If you turn the ball over your terrible and letting everyone down."? I got no idea, but for a handful of downs against the Jets he looked like a totally different guy. Decisive. Aggressive. And willing to challenge defenders. That version of Mason Rudolph is intriguing moving forward. The version from the other parts of the season, not very interesting as a current NFL prospect/player or a QB that makes me think positively about his development.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I honestly don't know. It is just a feeling I have and I can't point to anything. Other than the fact that at college, he typically had no problem just airing the ball out and being aggressive. His first preseason, he seemed to be similar. This preseason and into the season, he seemed to be overly conscious of doing something "safe" with the ball. Maybe the coaching got in his head and he turned "It is okay to punt and trust your defense." into "If you turn the ball over your terrible and letting everyone down."? I got no idea, but for a handful of downs against the Jets he looked like a totally different guy. Decisive. Aggressive. And willing to challenge defenders. That version of Mason Rudolph is intriguing moving forward. The version from the other parts of the season, not very interesting as a current NFL prospect/player or a QB that makes me think positively about his development.

I think that he has poor footwork and that causes inaccurate throws. I posted a Matt Canada video in another thread that shows at approx. 1:45 mark what happens when you don't have your feet and shoulders pointing in the right direction and you either open up and throw with all arm and no leg drive, or step too wide and become inaccurate. I am optimistic that a full time QB coach like Canada will help his development.

I think a pass catching TE is good to have, but if your footwork is bad, then what good is it if a TE is open and you cant throw an accurate football to him? We have to hope that Ben comes back healthy and can finish off a good year or 2 of his career and a TE like Vannett can help IMO. I also think we will see a bunch of decent TE's at the Senior Bowl who are 2nd -4th round prospects.

As for Rudolph, this week 9 performance was decent. He threw footballs into some tight windows, but I still see him throwing off his back foot too much and finishing on his tiptoes of the left foot. Not a good position of balance and weight transfer. I think whoever the Steelers have as young QB's, Matt Canada is going to help a lot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7iGAaA6nMo

[Steeler-in-west]

Based on his college highlights, preseason and few flashes during the regular season, I’m hopeful a QB coach can help him get better.. Sometimes a QB coach can help a young QB develop some poise and confidence through improved technique- it’s certainly worth a try as the Steelers seem to think so. It’ll be interesting to see if the Steelers still pickup a vet QB, I think they will as Tomlin might have alluded to.

[Shoes]

I think that he has poor footwork and that causes inaccurate throws. I posted a Matt Canada video in another thread that shows at approx. 1:45 mark what happens when you don't have your feet and shoulders pointing in the right direction and you either open up and throw with all arm and no leg drive, or step too wide and become inaccurate. I am optimistic that a full time QB coach like Canada will help his development.

I think a pass catching TE is good to have, but if your footwork is bad, then what good is it if a TE is open and you cant throw an accurate football to him? We have to hope that Ben comes back healthy and can finish off a good year or 2 of his career and a TE like Vannett can help IMO. I also think we will see a bunch of decent TE's at the Senior Bowl who are 2nd -4th round prospects.

As for Rudolph, this week 9 performance was decent. He threw footballs into some tight windows, but I still see him throwing off his back foot too much and finishing on his tiptoes of the left foot. Not a good position of balance and weight transfer. I think whoever the Steelers have as young QB's, Matt Canada is going to help a lot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7iGAaA6nMo

Agreed, but too bad just about everyone here ran Mason out of town. :chuckle:

[FrancoLambert]

Can we please give the kid a chance to improve before writing him off completely. Like another season.

I still contend that because of his makeup, “who he is,” and that’s not meant as a knock, the Cleveland fiasco sabotaged his progress and set him back big time.

He seems to be a “wholesome” kid, again not meant as a knock, and he just wasn’t mentally ready to deal with the explosive aftermath/media attention.

Let’s see how he responds.

[Shoes]

Can we please give the kid a chance to improve before writing him off completely. Like another season.

I still contend that because of his makeup, “who he is,” and that’s not meant as a knock, the Cleveland fiasco sabotaged his progress and set him back big time.

He seems to be a “wholesome” kid, again not meant as a knock, and he just wasn’t mentally ready to deal with the explosive aftermath/media attention.

Let’s see how he responds.

That's problem everyone expected Mason Mahomes results instantly out of a R3 QB. I don't think Colbert should have been flapping his jaws about having a R1grade on Mason either which gave the torch and pitchfork crew more ammo.

[DesertSteel]

Can we please give the kid a chance to improve before writing him off completely. Like another season.

I still contend that because of his makeup, “who he is,” and that’s not meant as a knock, the Cleveland fiasco sabotaged his progress and set him back big time.

He seems to be a “wholesome” kid, again not meant as a knock, and he just wasn’t mentally ready to deal with the explosive aftermath/media attention.

Let’s see how he responds.
Well.... his 4 picks came BEFORE his bash in the head...

[Born2Steel]

No. Actually a consistent run game and a stingy defense are a QB's best friends.

The reason top tier NFL TEs are hard to find is because of how much a true NFL TE has to know how to do and do well.
Run blocking schemes - TEs need to know the playbook from the OL point of view, when to pull, when to engage and release, when to maintain a block inside or outside.
Pass blocking schemes - Same as run blocking schemes only from pass protection stance.
Pass catching - TEs need to know 'route trees' from lining up INLINE, OUTSIDE as a WR, from in the BACKFIELD as a RB/blocking back set.

You find a TE that does one of these things or maybe 2 of these things at an NFL elite level and you have your #1 TE. If the TE can do 3 of these at an NFL elite level he's most likely an all-pro. TEs that master 4 or more of these traits are HoF TEs.

[Mojouw]

I think that he has poor footwork and that causes inaccurate throws. I posted a Matt Canada video in another thread that shows at approx. 1:45 mark what happens when you don't have your feet and shoulders pointing in the right direction and you either open up and throw with all arm and no leg drive, or step too wide and become inaccurate. I am optimistic that a full time QB coach like Canada will help his development.

I think a pass catching TE is good to have, but if your footwork is bad, then what good is it if a TE is open and you cant throw an accurate football to him? We have to hope that Ben comes back healthy and can finish off a good year or 2 of his career and a TE like Vannett can help IMO. I also think we will see a bunch of decent TE's at the Senior Bowl who are 2nd -4th round prospects.

As for Rudolph, this week 9 performance was decent. He threw footballs into some tight windows, but I still see him throwing off his back foot too much and finishing on his tiptoes of the left foot. Not a good position of balance and weight transfer. I think whoever the Steelers have as young QB's, Matt Canada is going to help a lot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7iGAaA6nMo

You will get no pushback from me on the mechanics stuff. I seem to remember a long pre-draft discussion you led where even my untrained eye could see some mechanical issues with Rudolph. And some of those same things are still present. So there is absolutely no version where a coach to work on those things is a bad idea.

I guess, and this is just me, I don't see a whole lot of "upside" even with a mechanically sound Mason Rudolph. I think the guy seems to be an excellent leader, it really seemed like the team believed in him and the other players were solidly on his side. But I just don't see where he ever ends up as "playoff winning QB". I seriously wonder if he is on the Sam Bradford career track. Racked up big time states in college and then was just never able to translate it to the pros.

But I do allow that it is entirely possible that Rudolph emerges from this off-season under increased tutelage as a different and vastly improved QB. I just do not think it is probable.

[Six Rings]

Whatever happened to the TE being the QB's best friend? This team has 312 yards to TEs all season -- 26 yards a game. If any offense/QB needed some help from the TE, this one does? Vannet and McD are serviceable and capable of more. What would really be nice is an elite pass catching TE in the draft next year. But would we even utilize him effectively?

Why isn't this team, with backup QBs, utilizing the safety blanket of the TE?

Yes and No. We have not had a good Tight End since Heath Miller. These days a dynamic back who can run and catch is the QB's best friend. We had neither last season.

Having said that I'm okay with a TE in rounds 2-4 IF he's worth it.

[Fire Goodell]

Yes and No. We have not had a good Tight End since Heath Miller. These days a dynamic back who can run and catch is the QB's best friend. We had neither last season.

Having said that I'm okay with a TE in rounds 2-4 IF he's worth it.

James Conner, but yeah the dude can't stay healthy. Would like to see them use Whyte in the passing game. 4.3 speed in the open field can be useful and all, not to mention he runs pretty hard for a smaller back.

[teegre]

I like Jared Pinkney.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I like Jared Pinkney.

TE Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt

Jared Pinkney is in the mold of a traditional tight end. He can play inline and is a capable and willing blocker. Pinkney measured in at 6’4” and weighed 254 pounds. His 10 5/8” hands topped the group of tight ends at the Senior Bowl this year.

Pinkney didn’t see a lot of production throughout his four-year career at Vanderbilt. In his senior season, he managed just 20 catches, 233 yards, and 2 touchdowns in 8 games. However, Pinkney possesses a solid set of hands as a receiver, and is an established run blocker.

With an aging Vance McDonald and Nick Vannett no longer under contract, the Steelers need some help at tight end, and Pinkney fits the bill of what they typically look for in the position.

https://stillcurtain.com/2020/01/22/5-senior-bowl-steelers-2020-nfl-draft/

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

TE Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt

Jared Pinkney is in the mold of a traditional tight end. He can play inline and is a capable and willing blocker. Pinkney measured in at 6’4” and weighed 254 pounds. His 10 5/8” hands topped the group of tight ends at the Senior Bowl this year.

Pinkney didn’t see a lot of production throughout his four-year career at Vanderbilt. In his senior season, he managed just 20 catches, 233 yards, and 2 touchdowns in 8 games. However, Pinkney possesses a solid set of hands as a receiver, and is an established run blocker.

With an aging Vance McDonald and Nick Vannett no longer under contract, the Steelers need some help at tight end, and Pinkney fits the bill of what they typically look for in the position.

https://stillcurtain.com/2020/01/22/5-senior-bowl-steelers-2020-nfl-draft/

Pinkney looked a bit heavier of foot than a lot of the TE's at the Senior Bowl this week. Pinkney skillset reminds me of Jerame Tuman...good blocker, good in the passing game, but not separating himself from defenders.

Brycen Hopkins from Purdue came in at 6'3.5" 241lbs and is a better receiver than Pinkney and a willing blocker. (his father is former O lineman Brad Hopkins). I'd rather Hopkins over Pinkney. I think Dennis Pitta as a comp.

Adam Trautman of Dayton was the big TE winner this past week IMO. 6'5", 251lbs, ran routes like Zach Ertz but better blocker. Crashed down on a DT on a bootleg option play that Shea Patterson ran into the endzone on 11-11.

Harrison Bryant of Florida Atlantic looks like a thinner version of Greg Olsen. At 6'4.5" 242lbs he is a bit lighter of frame than Trautman, Pinkney, but showed to be a willing blocker. He may be the best route runner and have the best hands of the TE in the class. He caught a slant at the goal line from Jaylen Hurts in between 2 defenders and it was all hands catch like a WR.

[Shoes]

Pinkney looked a bit heavier of foot than a lot of the TE's at the Senior Bowl this week. Pinkney skillset reminds me of Jerame Tuman...good blocker, good in the passing game, but not separating himself from defenders.

Brycen Hopkins from Purdue came in at 6'3.5" 241lbs and is a better receiver than Pinkney and a willing blocker. (his father is former O lineman Brad Hopkins). I'd rather Hopkins over Pinkney. I think Dennis Pitta as a comp.

Adam Trautman of Dayton was the big TE winner this past week IMO. 6'5", 251lbs, ran routes like Zach Ertz but better blocker. Crashed down on a DT on a bootleg option play that Shea Patterson ran into the endzone on 11-11.

Harrison Bryant of Florida Atlantic looks like a thinner version of Greg Olsen. At 6'4.5" 242lbs he is a bit lighter of frame than Trautman, Pinkney, but showed to be a willing blocker. He may be the best route runner and have the best hands of the TE in the class. He caught a slant at the goal line from Jaylen Hurts in between 2 defenders and it was all hands catch like a WR.

Thanks for the report El. I'll have to give Trautman a closer look.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Thanks for the report El. I'll have to give Trautman a closer look.

why, do you like tight ends? :wink02:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Thanks for the report El. I'll have to give Trautman a closer look. No problem. I think one could make a case that Pinkney is a big TE and can be productive like Ben Watson, but I don't know if a young Ben Watson is productive in 2020 NFL.

I guess it comes down to "what do you want from a TE"?

-If its a better receiver than blocker, then I think its Harrison Bryant and Thaddeus Moss...and to some extent Brycen Hopkins.
-If you want an all around TE that can block and is a good receiver, but not necessarily elite hands like Bryant, then I think its Adam Trautman
-If you want a big blocker and sacrifice some speed to get down the seams, but is good in hook/curl, then its Pinkney
-If you want a big guy to get down the seam, but is not as quick off the line, then Michael Okwubugnam from Mizzou. ( But some concerns that he has bigger plans in life like being a Dr. than playing football and doesn't exactly love the game)

I'm not downgrading Trautman's hands. He has a basketball background and was recruited as a QB to Dayton, but he just doesn't look as natural a pass catcher as Bryant or Stephen Sullivan from LSU. Hopkins might be Vance McDonald maddening, as he makes some fantastic catches, but had a drop rate of 10% in college.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mel Kiper’s Inaugural 2020 Tight End Draft Rankings:

1. Cole Kmet, Notre Dame
2. Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt
3. Harrison Bryant, Florida Atlantic
4. Thaddeus Moss, LSU
5. Brycen Hopkins, Purdue
6. Hunter Bryant, Washington
7. Albert Okwuegbunam, Missouri
8. Adam Trautman, Dayton
9. Colby Parkinson, Stanford
10. Jacob Breeland, Oregon

[st33lersguy]

When you don't have a legit no. 1 receiving threat (wr or te), when the o-line is terrible, and when you have the worst OC in the NFL, honestly any QB that isn't elite is screwed. Everyone wants to put the blame entirely on the QB expecting the QB to do it all on his own. How about helping the QB. Hiring a QBs coach instead of having the guy who can't run an offense pull double duty as QBs coach and OC is a start, now they need to rebuild the o-line and add some receiving threats

[Born2Steel]

When you don't have a legit no. 1 receiving threat (wr or te), when the o-line is terrible, and when you have the worst OC in the NFL, honestly any QB that isn't elite is screwed. Everyone wants to put the blame entirely on the QB expecting the QB to do it all on his own. How about helping the QB. Hiring a QBs coach instead of having the guy who can't run an offense pull double duty as QBs coach and OC is a start, now they need to rebuild the o-line and add some receiving threats

Wrong thread for your same stuff.

[Shoes]

Mel Kiper’s Inaugural 2020 Tight End Draft Rankings:

1. Cole Kmet, Notre Dame
2. Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt
3. Harrison Bryant, Florida Atlantic
4. Thaddeus Moss, LSU
5. Brycen Hopkins, Purdue
6. Hunter Bryant, Washington
7. Albert Okwuegbunam, Missouri
8. Adam Trautman, Dayton
9. Colby Parkinson, Stanford
10. Jacob Breeland, Oregon

Kmet is also interesting. I believe he decided to join in the draft about a week or two ago and from what I've read he's about the best all-around TE in the draft at this time. I'd be surprised if a TE is picked in R1.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Kmet is also interesting. I believe he decided to join in the draft about a week or two ago and from what I've read he's about the best all-around TE in the draft at this time. I'd be surprised if a TE is picked in R1.

most mocks I've seen have the first TE being selected by the LA Chargers at #37 in the 2nd round because they will most likely not re-sign Hunter Henry due to his injury concerns.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers Mock Draft: Pittsburgh adds their future starting tight end

by Tommy Jaggi

The Steelers have several needs to fill this offseason. Here’s why I have Pittsburgh going with a tight end in the second round of the NFL Draft:

https://stillcurtain.com/2020/01/22/steelers-mock-draft-adds-tight-end/

[HollywoodSteel]

Kmet is also interesting. I believe he decided to join in the draft about a week or two ago and from what I've read he's about the best all-around TE in the draft at this time. I'd be surprised if a TE is picked in R1.

What do you think about the Panthers parting ways with Olson? Do you think there’s any way we even think about this with our cap situation? Would we have to cut Mcdonald to find the money... assuming keeping Dupree is our priority?

Or do we think that the Steelers don’t make any moves until after the draft? And by then will Olson be gone?

[Shoes]

What do you think about the Panthers parting ways with Olson? Do you think there’s any way we even think about this with our cap situation? Would we have to cut Mcdonald to find the money... assuming keeping Dupree is our priority?

Or do we think that the Steelers don’t make any moves until after the draft? And by then will Olson be gone?

I don't know about the money but I wouldn't waste time or money on Olson. I think Jason Witten will be available also but I can't see the Steelers picking up another high dollar geezer. It's not a super great TE class but I think the Steelers can get the best of this class in R2. That is what I'm hoping for.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I don't know about the money but I wouldn't waste time or money on Olson. I think Jason Witten will be available also but I can't see the Steelers picking up another high dollar geezer. It's not a super great TE class but I think the Steelers can get the best of this class in R2. That is what I'm hoping for.

who would you pick in Round 2 assuming all the TEs were still available?

[86WARD]

What do you think about the Panthers parting ways with Olson? Do you think there’s any way we even think about this with our cap situation? Would we have to cut Mcdonald to find the money... assuming keeping Dupree is our priority?

Or do we think that the Steelers don’t make any moves until after the draft? And by then will Olson be gone?

Olsen is washed up. Witten, Olsen, McDonald...they’re all basically in the same category. I’d actually put McDonald above the other two at this stage.

[Born2Steel]

If the overall feeling is this is not a great TE class, that there is no 1 player that clearly rises above the pack at the TE position...why should the Steelers spend a 2nd round pick on a not great player on purpose? Just because there is a position of need does not mean an automatic jump on the best player available at that position if he's still a project. This is a very comparable TE class. I don't think any of these guys are going to WOW the scouts. I would take the most dynamic pass catcher and who cares if he can block at all. And that guy can probably be had in the rounds 4-6.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Olsen is washed up. Witten, Olsen, McDonald...they’re all basically in the same category. I’d actually put McDonald above the other two at this stage.

-Witten is a "has been".
-McDonald is a "never was".
-Olsen is definitely declined, but at 34 years old I think still has good skills to play.

I would try and get a deal done with either Vannett or Olsen. I still think that even at 34 years old Olsen is a better receiver than Vannett. I would then draft a young TE so that he doesn't have to carry the load as a rookie and can learn from one of the great TE's from the past decade. 2 year $8million might be Olsen price tag.

[Shoes]

who would you pick in Round 2 assuming all the TEs were still available?

I would be really surprised if the Steelers go for a TE in R2, but my picks would be #1 Cole Kmet #2 Adam Trautman #3 Harrison Bryant. If we get any of them I'll be happy.

[Shoes]

-Witten is a "has been".
-McDonald is a "never was".
-Olsen is definitely declined, but at 34 years old I think still has good skills to play.

I would try and get a deal done with either Vannett or Olsen. I still think that even at 34 years old Olsen is a better receiver than Vannett. I would then draft a young TE so that he doesn't have to carry the load as a rookie and can learn from one of the great TE's from the past decade. 2 year $8million might be Olsen price tag.

Agreed, I think Vannett or picking up Olsen at a bargain price AND drafting a TE would be ideal.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Agreed, I think Vannett or picking up Olsen at a bargain price AND drafting a TE would be ideal.

I don't think the Steelers can lowball Olsen and expect to sign him. He has been making $8million the past 2 seasons, but his production hasn't been worth that. But he is 34, not 39 like Antonio Gates and Ben Watson were last season, so I think he still is gonna get somebody offering him 4-5 million a season for a couple years.

Also, this notion that the current TE crop isn't that good is false IMO. I think the depth of it is much better than last year draft, but there just isn't the hype of guys like Hockenson, Fant and Irv Smith. Guys like Josh Oliver and Jace Sternberger went in the 3rd last year. There are probably 6 or 7 TE in this years draft that I would rather have than Oliver or Sternberger. I also think the top 4 prospects are as good or better than Irv Smith.

[Shoes]

I don't think the Steelers can lowball Olsen and expect to sign him. He has been making $8million the past 2 seasons, but his production hasn't been worth that. But he is 34, not 39 like Antonio Gates and Ben Watson were last season, so I think he still is gonna get somebody offering him 4-5 million a season for a couple years.

Also, this notion that the current TE crop isn't that good is false IMO. I think the depth of it is much better than last year draft, but there just isn't the hype of guys like Hockenson, Fant and Irv Smith. Guys like Josh Oliver and Jace Sternberger went in the 3rd last year. There are probably 6 or 7 TE in this years draft that I would rather have than Oliver or Sternberger. I also think the top 4 prospects are as good or better than Irv Smith.

There sure isn't the hype but there are good players within the Steelers reach.

[st33lersguy]

I'd like to see them draft a TE and I think it warrants a round 2 selection. Vannett wasn't worth the 5th round pick to get him and McDonald is not a reliable TE

[Born2Steel]

I don't think the Steelers can lowball Olsen and expect to sign him. He has been making $8million the past 2 seasons, but his production hasn't been worth that. But he is 34, not 39 like Antonio Gates and Ben Watson were last season, so I think he still is gonna get somebody offering him 4-5 million a season for a couple years.

Also, this notion that the current TE crop isn't that good is false IMO. I think the depth of it is much better than last year draft, but there just isn't the hype of guys like Hockenson, Fant and Irv Smith. Guys like Josh Oliver and Jace Sternberger went in the 3rd last year. There are probably 6 or 7 TE in this years draft that I would rather have than Oliver or Sternberger. I also think the top 4 prospects are as good or better than Irv Smith.

To clarify on the notion that this TE class is not "that good". This TE class has plenty of receiving TEs that are good. None that are great or warrant the Steelers' 2nd round pick, IMO. Hopkins, the 2 Bryants, Kmet, Trautman, and Pinkney all have the same downside, and that is their inability or unwillingness to be a consistent in-line blocker. Strangely Randy Moss' son seems to be the best blocker of the class but has very limited skills as a receiver. Not saying any of these guys are 'bad' TEs, just that I would look at other position groups at round 2 and 3. That's only my personal opinion. Later round guys such as Parkinson, Deguara, and Magnifico have at least played both the receiver and blocker roles regularly and consistently even if not at an elite level. Breeland just doesn't have enough games under his belt to risk a day 2 pick on either, IMO. I'm definitely not saying don't draft a TE, just that none of these TEs look like enough upgrade to take in the 2nd or 3rd(depending where this comp pick falls) this draft. I agree there are more 2nd level talent TEs in this class than in recent drafts. Makes it an interesting class to watch.

[43Hitman]

To clarify on the notion that this TE class is not "that good". This TE class has plenty of receiving TEs that are good. None that are great or warrant the Steelers' 2nd round pick, IMO. Hopkins, the 2 Bryants, Kmet, Trautman, and Pinkney all have the same downside, and that is their inability or unwillingness to be a consistent in-line blocker. Strangely Randy Moss' son seems to be the best blocker of the class but has very limited skills as a receiver. Not saying any of these guys are 'bad' TEs, just that I would look at other position groups at round 2 and 3. That's only my personal opinion. Later round guys such as Parkinson, Deguara, and Magnifico have at least played both the receiver and blocker roles regularly and consistently even if not at an elite level. Breeland just doesn't have enough games under his belt to risk a day 2 pick on either, IMO. I'm definitely not saying don't draft a TE, just that none of these TEs look like enough upgrade to take in the 2nd or 3rd(depending where this comp pick falls) this draft. I agree there are more 2nd level talent TEs in this class than in recent drafts. Makes it an interesting class to watch.

I wonder if Moss' perceived lack of hand talent has anything to do with LSU's abundance of great wideouts? I watched 3 or 4 LSU games(small sample size I know) and Moss just didn't seem to be targeted much, and when he was he pretty much caught everything that came his way. Personally I wouldn't mind having him. We know he has good genetics, and he's a willing blocker which is to me is a little more important than being just a receiving threat.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

To clarify on the notion that this TE class is not "that good". This TE class has plenty of receiving TEs that are good. None that are great or warrant the Steelers' 2nd round pick, IMO. Hopkins, the 2 Bryants, Kmet, Trautman, and Pinkney all have the same downside, and that is their inability or unwillingness to be a consistent in-line blocker. Strangely Randy Moss' son seems to be the best blocker of the class but has very limited skills as a receiver. Not saying any of these guys are 'bad' TEs, just that I would look at other position groups at round 2 and 3. That's only my personal opinion. Later round guys such as Parkinson, Deguara, and Magnifico have at least played both the receiver and blocker roles regularly and consistently even if not at an elite level. Breeland just doesn't have enough games under his belt to risk a day 2 pick on either, IMO. I'm definitely not saying don't draft a TE, just that none of these TEs look like enough upgrade to take in the 2nd or 3rd(depending where this comp pick falls) this draft. I agree there are more 2nd level talent TEs in this class than in recent drafts. Makes it an interesting class to watch.

Have you seen Trautman block?
Here is a link to a twitter video of him blocking Wisconsin OLB Zach Baun at the Senior Bowl. https://www.bleachernation.com/bears/2020/01/24/dont-be-scared-off-by-adam-trautmans-small-school-past-because-of-adam-shaheen/
-In the same practice he also down blocked on the D tackle so that Shea Patterson could bootleg run into the end zone and it drew praise from NFL Network announcer Charles Davis.

Harrison Bryant also drew praise in Mobile for his blocking. I saw one report from Tony Pauline touting it, and another story here.
Harrison Bryant (https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/players/279496/harrison-bryant?_ga=2.30924159.1584868396.1580499094-385176724.1580499094), TE, FAU
: It was a great week for the tight ends down in Mobile, and Bryant really stood out today in the ground game. Whether it was from an inline position or as an H-back in an offset formation, Bryant showcased great blocking, which surely caught the eyes of evaluators. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/25/21081715/nfl-draft-2020-senior-bowl-prospects-bengals-news

Sure, a lot of college TE's may not be asked to block as much, but it doesn't mean they aren't able to or cant improve quickly with some coaching. Pinkney has the size and power to block.

Brycen Hopkins has already been working on his blocking, with the help of his 2x Pro Bowl Offensive lineman and father Brad Hopkins.

I will disagree that Randy Moss kid is the best blocker in the draft at the TE position and that none of these TE's warrant a 2nd round pick. I will go as far as saying I think at least 3 TE's will be off the board in the first 2 rounds. I think there are at least 6 TE in the draft that are better than last years 3rd round pick of the Packers, Jace Sternberger.

[Born2Steel]

Have you seen Trautman block?
Here is a link to a twitter video of him blocking Wisconsin OLB Zach Baun at the Senior Bowl. https://www.bleachernation.com/bears/2020/01/24/dont-be-scared-off-by-adam-trautmans-small-school-past-because-of-adam-shaheen/
-In the same practice he also down blocked on the D tackle so that Shea Patterson could bootleg run into the end zone and it drew praise from NFL Network announcer Charles Davis.

Harrison Bryant also drew praise in Mobile for his blocking. I saw one report from Tony Pauline touting it, and another story here.
Harrison Bryant (https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/players/279496/harrison-bryant?_ga=2.30924159.1584868396.1580499094-385176724.1580499094), TE, FAU
: It was a great week for the tight ends down in Mobile, and Bryant really stood out today in the ground game. Whether it was from an inline position or as an H-back in an offset formation, Bryant showcased great blocking, which surely caught the eyes of evaluators. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/25/21081715/nfl-draft-2020-senior-bowl-prospects-bengals-news

Sure, a lot of college TE's may not be asked to block as much, but it doesn't mean they aren't able to or cant improve quickly with some coaching. Pinkney has the size and power to block.

Brycen Hopkins has already been working on his blocking, with the help of his 2x Pro Bowl Offensive lineman and father Brad Hopkins.

I will disagree that Randy Moss kid is the best blocker in the draft at the TE position and that none of these TE's warrant a 2nd round pick. I will go as far as saying I think at least 3 TE's will be off the board in the first 2 rounds. I think there are at least 6 TE in the draft that are better than last years 3rd round pick of the Packers, Jace Sternberger.

You may very well be correct on all of this. My response was just to clarify why I posted that I don't see a round 2 TE for the Steelers needs. I see a position group of about a dozen(I mentioned 11 by name)TEs that all appear to be about the same guy on the football field. No need to jump on one in the 2nd when there IS top talent at other positions at #49 available. If the Steelers actually see one of these guys as the one they need at #49, I'm not going to go sit in the corner and pout about it either. Lots of upside potential here but that's all I see at this point moving to an NFL roster. Not a 'bad crop' but not a 'must have' crop either. Just my opinion. Go Steelers!

[NCSteeler]

Possibly the best two TEs in the league will line up today. Not to say a great TE leases to winning but it helps

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[HollywoodSteel]

Possibly the best two TEs in the league will line up today. Not to say a great TE leases to winning but it helps

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Good thing we drafted a back up QB when Kittle was on the board.

That one still hurts.

[NCSteeler]

Good thing we drafted a back up QB when Kittle was on the board.

That one still hurts.Yep

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

You may very well be correct on all of this. My response was just to clarify why I posted that I don't see a round 2 TE for the Steelers needs. I see a position group of about a dozen(I mentioned 11 by name)TEs that all appear to be about the same guy on the football field. No need to jump on one in the 2nd when there IS top talent at other positions at #49 available. If the Steelers actually see one of these guys as the one they need at #49, I'm not going to go sit in the corner and pout about it either. Lots of upside potential here but that's all I see at this point moving to an NFL roster. Not a 'bad crop' but not a 'must have' crop either. Just my opinion. Go Steelers!

I agree that there isn't a "must have" player at all at #49. Will be lots of potential ways to go like O line, D line, WR, QB. I do however see multiple TE's that have 2nd round value and would vastly improve the Steelers receiving options and create mismatches vs ILB's and Safeties. I also see those guys as being willing enough blockers to be good in the run game.

I honestly see Trautman as having the skills of Zach Ertz, but being a better blocker. Ertz was drafted at #35. Hopkins is kind of the receiving threat that Jordan Reed was IMO and Pinkney IMO compares to the skillset of Benjamin Watson, but I don't know that Watson was ever the receiving threat that is desired in todays NFL.

[teegre]

Here’s the thing...

We talk about missing out on Kittle. True, we did not draft him. But, neither did 31 other teams... for FOUR rounds.

No one was clamoring to draft Kittle in R1 or even R2. Those who did want him suggested R3 (at the earliest) and most thought of Kittle as a R4 pick.

My point:
This upcoming draft’s group of TEs could be a crazy handful of nothin’ (one of my favorite Breaking Bad episodes)... or... there might be a “Kittle” drafted in R5.

[Born2Steel]

Here’s the thing...

We talk about missing out on Kittle. True, we did not draft him. But, neither did 31 other teams... for FOUR rounds.

No one was clamoring to draft Kittle in R1 or even R2. Those who did want him suggested R3 (at the earliest) and most thought of Kittle as a R4 pick.

My point:
This upcoming draft’s group of TEs could be a crazy handful of nothin’ (one of my favorite Breaking Bad episodes)... or... there might be a “Kittle” drafted in R5.

This is pretty much my point as well. All or none of these guys can end up good/great. They all sort of seem like the same player at this point. Get the SS, OLB, or OL that we KNOW is going to be good/great rather than risk it at pick 49. I would consider WRs Pittman or Mims over one of the TEs at 49 too. It's not that I see the TE class as bad or good it's that I see it as a class of who knows. None of them are complete TEs. They are ALL NFL level projects.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ray Fittipaldo has us breaking Shoes' heart and only drafting a TE in the 7th round:

7. TE Joey Magnifico, Memphis (6-4, 240)

The Steelers have some big decisions to make at tight end. Vance McDonald likely returns as the starter despite his $7.1 cap hit. Do they bring back Nick Vannett, who is an unrestricted free agent, as the top backup? Or do they sign one in free agency? The tight end crop in the draft is top-heavy and there are more pass-catchers than complete tight ends that offer value as blockers. For that reason, the Steelers are likely to address the position in free agency. This is a depth pick to push Zach Gentry, last year’s fifth-round pick. Magnifico is a better receiver than a blocker, but he has the frame to add more weight and strength. He had 71 career catches and 12 touchdowns for the Tigers. He can compete with Gentry for the third tight end spot, or develop on the practice squad if he’s not ready for a spot on the active roster.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2020/02/03/Ray-Fittipaldo-steelers-mock-draft-2020-Isaiah-Wilson-Lynn-Bowden-Logan-Stenberg/stories/202002030008

[teegre]

This is pretty much my point as well. All or none of these guys can end up good/great. They all sort of seem like the same player at this point. Get the SS, OLB, or OL that we KNOW is going to be good/great rather than risk it at pick 49. I would consider WRs Pittman or Mims over one of the TEs at 49 too. It's not that I see the TE class as bad or good it's that I see it as a class of who knows. None of them are complete TEs. They are ALL NFL level projects.

Bingo

Imagine if I told Steelers fans that Colbert & Tomlin had “ignored” the tight end position until R5. People would be up in arms... until they saw George Kittle play. Mind you: most years, a tight end drafted on Day 3 is nothing more than camp fodder. But, occasionally, you can find a gem.

In a similar vein, the Ravens drafted a TE in R1... instead of drafting Lamar Jackson. In turn, they then had to trade away a high pick in order to jump back up to get Jackson. After that... they drafted Mark Andrews (who is really good). How good? Well, I can’t even remember that first tight end’s name.

SUMMATION:
Tight end appears to be a position that is tough to evaluate.

[Shoes]

Here’s the thing...

We talk about missing out on Kittle. True, we did not draft him. But, neither did 31 other teams... for FOUR rounds.

No one was clamoring to draft Kittle in R1 or even R2. Those who did want him suggested R3 (at the earliest) and most thought of Kittle as a R4 pick.

My point:
This upcoming draft’s group of TEs could be a crazy handful of nothin’ (one of my favorite Breaking Bad episodes)... or... there might be a “Kittle” drafted in R5.


Well there were were plenty of fans on this forum and others who knew he was special. I mean did the Steeler really believe Josh Dobbs was the "best player available"? If they did, they must have been drunk. But point taken! :chuckle:

[teegre]

Well there were were plenty of fans on this forum and others who knew he was special. I mean did the Steeler really believe Josh Dobbs was the "best player available"? If they did, they must have been drunk. But point taken! :chuckle:

No doubt that Dobbs was the wrong choice.

But, as I stated earlier in this thread, no one was clamoring for Kittle in R2, let alone in R1. A very few thought maaaybe we take him in R3, but most thought that Day 3 was a good value.

It reminds me of when Mike Shannahan was asked how he knew to wait to draft Terrell Davis in R6. Shannahan replied, "Knew???... if I had known how good Terrell was going to be, I would have drafted him in R1." :lol:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

No doubt that Dobbs was the wrong choice.

But, as I stated earlier in this thread, no one was clamoring for Kittle in R2, let alone in R1. A very few thought maaaybe we take him in R3, but most thought that Day 3 was a good value.

It reminds me of when Mike Shannahan was asked how he knew to wait to draft Terrell Davis in R6. Shannahan replied, "Knew???... if I had known how good Terrell was going to be, I would have drafted him in R1." :lol:

Full disclosure, when they picked Dobbs I was thinking they should have picked Jake Butt(if medical checked out), TE Jordan Leggett from Clemson or Desmond King S from Iowa. I missed the boat on Kittle, but to me King was a steal in the late 4th and a TE otherwise was a position of need.

But, Dobbs looked like the 5th best QB at the Senior Bowl, which usually means he is a 6th round or later value.

Some may think the Senior Bowl is too short of a week to evaluate, but my thoughts are that a QB can complete a lot of passes to WR's during the season, that are open by 5 yards, because the defenders covering them are going to be working at Enterprise Rent a Car or UPS. But, at the Senior Bowl, the defenders are going to be in the NFL and the WR's they are throwing to are open by 1 yard, so the mediocre QB can look good in a college season, but their weaknesses are exposed when the level of competition is good in Mobile.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Even If Vance McDonald Bounces Back, Steelers Need Serious Help At TE

By Alex Kozora
Posted on February 3, 2020

Let’s cut right to the chase.

The Pittsburgh Steelers need to invest heavily in a tight end. They’re long overdue.

to read rest of article:

https://steelersdepot.com/2020/02/even-if-vance-mcdonald-bounces-back-steelers-need-serious-help-at-te/

[teegre]

Full disclosure, when they picked Dobbs I was thinking they should have picked Jake Butt(if medical checked out), TE Jordan Leggett from Clemson or Desmond King S from Iowa. I missed the boat on Kittle, but to me King was a steal in the late 4th and a TE otherwise was a position of need.

But, Dobbs looked like the 5th best QB at the Senior Bowl, which usually means he is a 6th round or later value.

Some may think the Senior Bowl is too short of a week to evaluate, but my thoughts are that a QB can complete a lot of passes to WR's during the season, that are open by 5 yards, because the defenders covering them are going to be working at Enterprise Rent a Car or UPS. But, at the Senior Bowl, the defenders are going to be in the NFL and the WR's they are throwing to are open by 1 yard, so the mediocre QB can look good in a college season, but their weaknesses are exposed when the level of competition is good in Mobile.

Watt & JuJu: it would have been hard to argue with drafting Kittle instead of them.

Sutton: my favorite pick in this draft (value-wise). I loved the pick then, and I love it now.

Conner: even at the time, this was a questionable pick; lots of debating about this pick. Bell was still here, but one could argue for the need since we rarely had Bell fir the playoffs (and had to rely on garbage-pile signings late in the season). I remember this being a controversial pick. This is where (I’m guessing) that people were lobbying for Kittle.

Dobbs: this is where I know that some wanted Kittle. Others wanted Butt. Regardless of the name, Friday night was spent lining for a TE. (Dwins was lobbying for Desmond King.) Then, it was Dobbs.

SIDE-NOTE:
Speaking of Butts... when they were showing the “NFL 100 players” list on the sidelines, and they announced “Dick Butkis” my son LOST IT!!! :rofl2:

butt... kiss... :lol:
butt... kiss... :chuckle:
butt... kiss... :toofunny:

[LloydWoodson]

Will McDonald be back next year?

[Buckinnuts]

What about olsen for a year?..

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Will McDonald be back next year?

I hope not. He really hasn't done anything in his career but get overpaid based upon "potential", but then done minimal in the way of "production".

And fans will complain about guys like Dupree, Woodley or Lawrence Timmons, but all of those guys have done more with their time in the NFL that McDonald has done with his. IMO, time to move on and stop throwing good money at mediocre TE.

[teegre]

Rumor out of sunny San Diego...

Hunter Henry to be franchise tagged.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers 2020 Free Agent Market Watch: The Tight Ends

BTSC takes a look at the top free agents at each position whether or not they are in the Steelers price range. Here are the Tight Ends.

By Bryan Anthony Davis
Feb 14, 2020

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2020/2/14/21135007/steelers-2020-free-agent-market-watch-the-tight-ends-hunter-henry-austin-hooper-eric-ebron-nfl-news