Minkah Fitzpatrick

[Fire Goodell]

I jokingly said before this guy is the next E-D Reed but at the halfway point of this season, it looks like this dude is on his way to an all-pro season. You could say that without his pick 6 (a 10-14 point shift), last Sunday would be an L. The trade is already proving to be a difference maker.

From NFL.com - Prior to Fitzpatrick's Week 3 arrival, Pittsburgh's opposing QBs had a 131.3 passer rating. That figure has plummeted to 74.6 with Fitzpatrick roaming the secondary. You want a star when you give up a first-round pick ... the Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT) got one

[DesertSteel]

Even if he is all-pro, I still think we should have kept the draft pick! Said me never.

[FrancoLambert]

4 picks in 6 games...yeah, I’ll take it...a top tier safety.

[steelreserve]

He sure beats the dogshit out of any other DB we've taken with a first-round pick since that one dude with the long hair, which was about 20 years ago now ...

[tube517]

4 picks in 6 games...yeah, I’ll take it...a top tier safety.

He makes a great team with Bush. They are both always around the ball or close to it.

Even on completions for the other side, MFF is always close by and you don't see those long YAC gains as much as before (as opposed to Mike Mitchell celebrating 10 yard gains by the opposing RB)

[Fire Goodell]

He makes a great team with Bush. They are both always around the ball or close to it.

Even on completions for the other side, MFF is always close by and you don't see those long YAC gains as much as before (as opposed to Mike Mitchell celebrating 10 yard gains by the opposing RB)

His tackling is definitely not flashy (doesn't go for the big hit, but with today's rules I'm totally OK with that), but gets it done. I notice if he's not there in time to make a play on the ball he chops the ballcarrier down for no additional gain. He's a great player.

[ALLD]

Steelers know how to draft WRs, but miss on lots of DBs. A trade does not guarantee a known quantity will perform either, but the Steelers did the right thing with Fitz.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

He makes a great team with Bush. They are both always around the ball or close to it.

Even on completions for the other side, MFF is always close by and you don't see those long YAC gains as much as before (as opposed to Mike Mitchell celebrating 10 yard gains by the opposing RB)

Exactly! Fitzpatrick is the BPA with the Steelers 2020 #1 pick. Anybody complaining about Fitzpatrick only needs to think of Mike Mitchell coming in to be the 2nd guy in on a tackle for 20 yard reception and celebrating like he won the Super Bowl.

Some will bitch about having a secondary of Mike Mitchell, Will Allen, Antowan Blake, Brandon Boykin, Will Gay.....yet bitch worse the Steelers gave up a draft pick to add Fitzpatrick to a secondary of Haden, Nelson, Sutton, Hilton, Edmunds. :crazy:

[st33lersguy]

After 6 games this looks like a really good trade, and he's been a difference maker. He has helped improve the defense and they don't win on Sunday without his play. I don't think it's a stretch to call him the team's 2nd best player after Watt

[86WARD]

No brainer.

[Craic]

Exactly! Fitzpatrick is the BPA with the Steelers 2020 #1 pick. Anybody complaining about Fitzpatrick only needs to think of Mike Mitchell coming in to be the 2nd guy in on a tackle for 20 yard reception and celebrating like he won the Super Bowl.

Some will bitch about having a secondary of Mike Mitchell, Will Allen, Antowan Blake, Brandon Boykin, Will Gay.....yet bitch worse the Steelers gave up a draft pick to add Fitzpatrick to a secondary of Haden, Nelson, Sutton, Hilton, Edmunds. :crazy:

For me, the only problem in the trade is Ben R. Had this been three years ago, I would have been completely for it without any hesitation when it happened. Had it been a year or two in the future and we have our QB or at least the guy we're committed to for 2-3 years? I'd have been completely for it at the time of the trade. But, giving away our first pick when it looks like that pick will be a top 10 if not top 5 pick at the very time when we are going to need to find a franchise QB just did not seem a wise choice to me. It still doesn't. I don't go for the hindsight game. Now, am I glad we made the trade? With hindsight, absolutely. We're in striking distance of first place in our division with need of help from just one team. Any team that plays the Ravens. We're also in striking distance of the playoffs. So the traded pick now has a lot less value than it looked to have in week 3. But that doesn't erase the facts at the time the trade was made.

Why do I say that? Because a team with a secondary you mentioned above without Fitzpatrick but with a franchise QB is still a playoff viable team year in and year out. That same team with Fitzpatrick and without a franchise QB is not. They're looking for help most years, or outright can't get in. (Again, this is all predicated on being a few minutes from choosing to make the trade and not knowing the future).

[BlackAndGold]

The 2020 draft is already an A+.

This team has 3 young cornerstones on defense in Watt/Bush/Fitzpatrick and that is exciting to know.

[steelreserve]

Why do I say that? Because a team with a secondary you mentioned above without Fitzpatrick but with a franchise QB is still a playoff viable team year in and year out. That same team with Fitzpatrick and without a franchise QB is not. They're looking for help most years, or outright can't get in. (Again, this is all predicated on being a few minutes from choosing to make the trade and not knowing the future).

When it comes down to it, what were we going to do with the 2020 R1 pick? This year's QB class is looking like it's going to s-u-u-u-u-u-c-k.

We probably weren't going to have a top-3 pick even without Fitzpatrick on the team, so our choices would be shitty. Trade into the top 3 for one of the "name" (but still REALLY uncertain) prospects, thereby giving up two draft picks anyway for a QB prospect who is about as shaky as can be for that investment ... Don't move and make an extreme reach for a really really big long shot from like the #10-15 pick ... Draft a non-QB because our options suck.

There's also the added complication that if you make a big bet on a blue-chip QB in high R1, you are committing to have BOTH Ben and Rudolph out the door in about two years, and I don't really see anything out there that presents a compelling case to make that move.

If Rudolph turns out to suck, then we have one more year of Ben to give us breathing room to make a move. If Rudolph sucks AND Ben is done, then we're just extremely unlucky and there's only so much you can do in those circumstances.

[GoSlash27]

This year's QB class is looking like it's going to s-u-u-u-u-u-c-k.

For real. Nate Stanley is far and away the most productive QB in the Big 10, and he's not terribly impressive IMO. Even compared to professional no- names who preceded him (CJ Beathard, Ricky Stanzi) he's just 'meh'. This is a weak QB class.

And for those who say we can make it with a franchise QB and weak secondary, I'd like to cite the Pittsburgh Steelers for about the last 5 years.

[Craic]

When it comes down to it, what were we going to do with the 2020 R1 pick? This year's QB class is looking like it's going to s-u-u-u-u-u-c-k.

We probably weren't going to have a top-3 pick even without Fitzpatrick on the team, so our choices would be shitty. Trade into the top 3 for one of the "name" (but still REALLY uncertain) prospects, thereby giving up two draft picks anyway for a QB prospect who is about as shaky as can be for that investment ... Don't move and make an extreme reach for a really really big long shot from like the #10-15 pick ... Draft a non-QB because our options suck.

There's also the added complication that if you make a big bet on a blue-chip QB in high R1, you are committing to have BOTH Ben and Rudolph out the door in about two years, and I don't really see anything out there that presents a compelling case to make that move.

If Rudolph turns out to suck, then we have one more year of Ben to give us breathing room to make a move. If Rudolph sucks AND Ben is done, then we're just extremely unlucky and there's only so much you can do in those circumstances.

I only had to get through your first sentence. There is a very easy answer.

Trade. Down. Pick up some mediocre team's first and third. Then next year, bundle them with your first to go get the guy you want. It's not a one-draft scenario here.

[Butch]

I was always ok with this pick. Ben is coming back next year and I expect he will be back to leading the offense as he has in previous seasons. I think it was a no brainer that Minkah would make the D better not only this year but for a few years to come. It keeps our Super Bowl window open when Ben comes back.

As for his backup I think we will go with Rudolph for a while. He is not where he needs to be just yet but the time he is getting this year is invaluable. How many years did it take Bradshaw to develop? Hopefully Mason can do the same thing and we will be set when ever Ben hangs it up.

[Craic]

I was always ok with this pick. Ben is coming back next year and I expect he will be back to leading the offense as he has in previous seasons. I think it was a no brainer that Minkah would make the D better not only this year but for a few years to come. It keeps our Super Bowl window open when Ben comes back.

As for his backup I think we will go with Rudolph for a while. He is not where he needs to be just yet but the time he is getting this year is invaluable. How many years did it take Bradshaw to develop? Hopefully Mason can do the same thing and we will be set when ever Ben hangs it up.

See, that's not what I'm so sure about. I hope it is true. But, the reality is that Ben is thirty-seven years old. Not only will his body have to heal properly but he'll have to overcome any atrophy to the arm as well not to mention the rest of his body. I know he wants to return, but at some point, we're staring father time in the face and he has never lost.

[steelreserve]

I only had to get through your first sentence. There is a very easy answer.

Trade. Down. Pick up some mediocre team's first and third. Then next year, bundle them with your first to go get the guy you want. It's not a one-draft scenario here.

That still means you're not getting a QB in 2020. Might as well make the same move in 2021 and use future picks to make the deal instead. And in the meantime, you got a badass safety in 2019 instead of the privilege of gambling a high draft pick on it later.

Like, I get the point you were making, but the entire premise depended on needing to take a QB in 2020. If we wait until 2021, the urgency of keeping that particular pick goes away and you use other stuff (if you even need to). More than one way to skin a cat.

[Craic]

The problem with your scenario is that it isn't that easy to move up high enough for a pick in the top of the first round. But to have two first round picks alters that. It is much, much easier to get someone to deal for two first round picks and jump into the top five or eight. 2 mid first round picks that average to two 18th overall picks will net you will net you a 4th overall pick. By comparison, You'd have to bundle your entire 2021 class of picks to move up to the 5th overall pick. Seems to me the better choice is picking up a second 2021 pick in 2020. It'd cost a lot less.

[steelreserve]

The problem with your scenario is that it isn't that easy to move up high enough for a pick in the top of the first round. But to have two first round picks alters that. It is much, much easier to get someone to deal for two first round picks and jump into the top five or eight. 2 mid first round picks that average to two 18th overall picks will net you will net you a 4th overall pick. By comparison, You'd have to bundle your entire 2021 class of picks to move up to the 5th overall pick. Seems to me the better choice is picking up a second 2021 pick in 2020. It'd cost a lot less.

Well yeah, IF we need a QB in the top 5. We've got a good chance we won't, or won't yet.

Also, if you are in a draft with better QBs, maybe you don't have to move all the way up that high. If you're lucky, you could snag one at like 10-15 from those 3+ QB classes or even lower, and that's a lot less expensive. Being patient pays off big time there if you ask me.

[GoSlash27]

That still means you're not getting a QB in 2020. Might as well make the same move in 2021 and use future picks to make the deal instead.
Or simply wait until you suck and get better picks for free. And then continue to suck until a good QB actually comes along. And then hope that he's not a bust.

Personally, I'd rather field the best team we can in any given year.

[Edman]

If the Steelers reach the playoffs with Rudolph in 2019, Ben’s days are numbered in Pittsburgh. Regardless of what you think of his play, Rudy has been delivering winning football. He is the reason the Steelers even have a pulse and possibly dreams of a division title after a disastrous 0-3 start. It hasn’t been totally pretty so far, but neither was Ben in 2004. He was very pedestrian that year, but 15-1 speaks for itself. Rudy has the team believing again, even if he isn’t totally “the guy” just yet.

Rudolph isn’t Charlie Batch or Case Keenum. He is a young quarterback making his sixth start and Tomlin’s baby. His own personal project. One he hasn’t had since he was hired. Tomlin inherited a franchise quarterback, now he has a quarterback he can call his own. It will take Rudolph completely going off a cliff, and the 2019 season to crash and burn for Ben to just be handed the starting keys back in 2020. These next eight weeks will be telling.

[86WARD]

For me, the only problem in the trade is Ben R. Had this been three years ago, I would have been completely for it without any hesitation when it happened. Had it been a year or two in the future and we have our QB or at least the guy we're committed to for 2-3 years? I'd have been completely for it at the time of the trade. But, giving away our first pick when it looks like that pick will be a top 10 if not top 5 pick at the very time when we are going to need to find a franchise QB just did not seem a wise choice to me. It still doesn't. I don't go for the hindsight game. Now, am I glad we made the trade? With hindsight, absolutely. We're in striking distance of first place in our division with need of help from just one team. Any team that plays the Ravens. We're also in striking distance of the playoffs. So the traded pick now has a lot less value than it looked to have in week 3. But that doesn't erase the facts at the time the trade was made.

Why do I say that? Because a team with a secondary you mentioned above without Fitzpatrick but with a franchise QB is still a playoff viable team year in and year out. That same team with Fitzpatrick and without a franchise QB is not. They're looking for help most years, or outright can't get in. (Again, this is all predicated on being a few minutes from choosing to make the trade and not knowing the future).

None of these QBs coming out are sure things...not even close. It’s nothing they can’t make he same gamble next season or the year after that. A QB doesn’t have to be drafted in the Top-5 to be a franchise QB. Without looking, I’m not sure what point in the draft most of your franchise QBs come, but you can name a whole lot that aren’t in the Top-5 to Top-10...just off the top of my head...Brady, Wilson and Brees weren’t even first round picks. I think people over value the first round pick. Fitzpatrick was a sure thing. You take the sure thing 100 out of 100 times over the unknown. Before/in hindsight...either way, that trade is the right move.

[teegre]

As I stated on the day of the trade (and in the many threads since then):

Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > 2020QB + Davis

[Devil's D]

I hated the trade. It has been what 20 years since the Steelers had a top 10 draft pick? And, they waste that opportunity on a safety?

Then…….he started playing…….He is every bit worth even a top 5 pick in 2020 to this team, and his impact has vastly decreased the value the Dolphins will get on draft day. Unlike me, the Steelers knew that Fitzpatrick was a sure thing, and the trade was an absolute steal. It probably will not rival the Bettis trade, but it is in the same neighborhood.

The trade up for Bush, and the Fitzpatrick trade look like two savvy moves by a smart organization that wants to maximize its chance of winning while they still have a HOF QB on the roster.

[tube517]

One of the reasons that I liked the trade: MFF is still on his rookie contract. We have him for 3 years and I think a possible 4th (I may be wrong, can't remember contract). You can't get this quality type of player for that kind of bargain. No brainer.

[43Hitman]

All that needs to be said for Minkah is that we have 22 take aways at the half way point of the season. We had 15 all of last year. Stellar move by the FO and Tomlin.

[steel striker]

To me well worth the trade and, he has made a big difference to this team.

[steelreserve]

Or simply wait until you suck and get better picks for free. And then continue to suck until a good QB actually comes along. And then hope that he's not a bust.

Personally, I'd rather field the best team we can in any given year.

In the long term, teams that suck and think the high draft picks will fix it, end up sucking after the high draft picks too.

Maybe it helps them for a season or two, but then they always blow it, because the way you get top-10 draft picks is by making more bad decisions than good ones in general.

It's no coincidence that the same 8 or 10 teams are always the ones coming back to the bottom of the pile. Roughly the Browns, Cardinals, Jets, Dolphins, Bills, Raiders, Bengals, Redskins, and Bucs. They're like the lifelong Democrat voters of the NFL. "But those draft picks are free!"

[EzraTank]

The trade will be tied to Ben's immediate future. If Mason isn't the answer (which I'm leaning towards) and Ben can play another 1-3 years (allowing us to draft a QB) then the trade is a win. If Mason shits the bed and Ben turns into Bradshaw 2.0 (elbow ending career) then the trade is a wash since Fitz can play.

[pczach]

Exactly! Fitzpatrick is the BPA with the Steelers 2020 #1 pick. Anybody complaining about Fitzpatrick only needs to think of Mike Mitchell coming in to be the 2nd guy in on a tackle for 20 yard reception and celebrating like he won the Super Bowl.

Some will bitch about having a secondary of Mike Mitchell, Will Allen, Antowan Blake, Brandon Boykin, Will Gay.....yet bitch worse the Steelers gave up a draft pick to add Fitzpatrick to a secondary of Haden, Nelson, Sutton, Hilton, Edmunds. :crazy:


I agree.

I have a hard time understanding how anyone can think it was not a great trade.

[SteelMember]

Totally worth it... even before he played a snap here, imo. His play to date just helps folks recognize the value they got for the hole they had to inevitably fill eventually.

I don't think they would have looked at 1st round QB anyway. It would have been defense again. So, as others have said, we just got our pick early and don't have to pay the bonus.

MFF was picked 11th overall, and worth that. If we can maintain at least middle of the road by season's end, we'd have been looking at 16th or 17th. As of today, that's where we sit... A grade and good value, imo.

[steelreserve]

The trade will be tied to Ben's immediate future. If Mason isn't the answer (which I'm leaning towards) and Ben can play another 1-3 years (allowing us to draft a QB) then the trade is a win. If Mason shits the bed and Ben turns into Bradshaw 2.0 (elbow ending career) then the trade is a wash since Fitz can play.

Even in the worst case (Ben can't play anymore, Rudolph sucks), all this turns into is "We waited a year to draft a quarterback, in a year when there weren't any quarterbacks." Fitzpatrick is probably better than whoever we would've gotten with the 18th-20th pick, which is about where we will end up if it's a borderline wild-card season, which is about what it's looking like.

[HollywoodSteel]

I only had to get through your first sentence. There is a very easy answer.

Trade. Down. Pick up some mediocre team's first and third. Then next year, bundle them with your first to go get the guy you want. It's not a one-draft scenario here.

I think if your nightmare scenario happens, where Rudolph sucks and Ben sucks next year, we’ll have that high draft pick in 2021 anyway. And we’ll still have a great piece of the puzzle in Minkah.

I understand what you’re saying. I don’t think you’re nuts, but I do not think we were going to use our 2020 pick, or bundle picks, to get the third or fourth best QB in 2020 when Ben is coming back. It’s just not going to happen. And they also weren’t going to use the 2020 pick to get a better pick in 2021. Only tanking teams do something like that, and again Ben is coming back so the Steelers won’t assume he’ll suck and that they’ll need to implement your plan.

Any way you slice it, our 2020 first round pick would have been used in 2020 and not on a QB. So that being the case, Minkah is a reasonable pick as the BPA. Without having to pay his bonus.

So even if in theory there’s a situation where they COULD do what you’re saying, it would involve having no faith in Ben BEFORE they see him play in 2020. There’s no way they would make that assumption.

Tomlin is already on a “warm” seat. He isn’t thinking the way you are. He’s gonna give himself the best chance at the best possible record in 2020. That means counting on a QB he already has on the team to do the job. That’s either Ben, or the unlikely scenario where Rudolph is so good he takes Ben’s job.

[Fire Goodell]

Even in the worst case (Ben can't play anymore, Rudolph sucks), all this turns into is "We waited a year to draft a quarterback, in a year when there weren't any quarterbacks." Fitzpatrick is probably better than whoever we would've gotten with the 18th-20th pick, which is about where we will end up if it's a borderline wild-card season, which is about what it's looking like.

Yep Mid-late first round is where you're more likely to get a Bud Dupree or Jarvis Jones than a player like Minkah

[st33lersguy]

So far he's proven his value, he's been a key factor in multiple wins this season and in turn it's lowered the value of the round 1 pick. At the time it was risky and could have backfired, but I am glad the best-case scenario has occurred the first 6 games

[Craic]

I think if your nightmare scenario happens, where Rudolph sucks and Ben sucks next year, we’ll have that high draft pick in 2021 anyway. And we’ll still have a great piece of the puzzle in Minkah.

I understand what you’re saying. I don’t think you’re nuts, but I do not think we were going to use our 2020 pick, or bundle picks, to get the third or fourth best QB in 2020 when Ben is coming back. It’s just not going to happen. And they also weren’t going to use the 2020 pick to get a better pick in 2021. Only tanking teams do something like that, and again Ben is coming back so the Steelers won’t assume he’ll suck and that they’ll need to implement your plan.

Any way you slice it, our 2020 first round pick would have been used in 2020 and not on a QB. So that being the case, Minkah is a reasonable pick as the BPA. Without having to pay his bonus.

So even if in theory there’s a situation where they COULD do what you’re saying, it would involve having no faith in Ben BEFORE they see him play in 2020. There’s no way they would make that assumption.

Tomlin is already on a “warm” seat. He isn’t thinking the way you are. He’s gonna give himself the best chance at the best possible record in 2020. That means counting on a QB he already has on the team to do the job. That’s either Ben, or the unlikely scenario where Rudolph is so good he takes Ben’s job.

And, that may be very true as well. For me, it was more along the lines of, "Do I want to gamble having a few years with no true QB or gamble a few years with the defense as is." In that scenario, I choose the QB. But, as St33ler has said, and others, Minkah is working out very well. And, it looks like we're not getting that high pick anyway. So, in hindsight, they made the right choice.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

[Craic]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

True. Very true. And, that's what keep drawing back to that choice. But on the other side, while Mason isn't lighting anything yup, He's still giving the team a chance each week with Minkah helping on the defense. All in all, it really is one of those choices that has a lot of risk on both ends. Glad it worked out as it has.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

Steelers were never gonna suck as bad as the Dolphins, Bengals or Jets were. There isn't going to be a QB worthy of the 6th to 10th pick in the draft that is a franchise QB, so the trade was a no brainer.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Steelers were never gonna suck as bad as the Dolphins, Bengals or Jets were. There isn't going to be a QB worthy of the 6th to 10th pick in the draft that is a franchise QB, so the trade was a no brainer. I would do the trade 10 times over and the right call.

[steelreserve]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

This year it would be more like get a shitty QB in the first 5 picks in the draft.

[teegre]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

True... but...

Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > QB20 + Davis


(subtext: The ‘20 draft class for QBs is good, but not great.)

[tube517]

True... but...

Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > QB20 + Davis


(subtext: The ‘20 draft class for QBs is good, but not great.)

And Davis is likely gone in 2020 (even before MFF was traded here) so then you would have to draft a meh QB and get another safety in free agency or draft. MFF is the 2020 pick and is a starter at a CHEAP price.

[Six Rings]

He's playing like an ALL PRO. We got him very young and cheap for a few years. His character is excellent as noted by Nick Saban and Tomlin.

IMO Fitzpatrick is worth a top 3 draft pick because he's a sure thing and will be more valuable than any player taken in 2020 unless he's turnouts to be a franchise QB, or stud pass rusher...long odd on picking either in the top ten of the draft.

[teegre]

And Davis is likely gone in 2020 (even before MFF was traded here) so then you would have to draft a meh QB and get another safety in free agency or draft. MFF is the 2020 pick and is a starter at a CHEAP price.

Points #2 and #3 (of why it’s a good trade). :nod:

- - - Updated - - -


He's playing like an ALL PRO. We got him very young and cheap for a few years. His character is excellent as noted by Nick Saban and Tomlin.

IMO Fitzpatrick is worth a top 3 draft pick because he's a sure thing and will be more valuable than any player taken in 2020 unless he's turnouts to be a franchise QB, or stud pass rusher...long odd on picking either in the top ten of the draft.

:nod:

The only player in the 2020 draft that I’d take over Minkah Fitzpatrick is Chase Young.

But, the Steelers are not getting the #1 overall pick (so, it’s a moot point).

[Six Rings]

The only player in the 2020 draft that I’d take over Minkah Fitzpatrick is Chase Young.

Chase Young is impressive, but let's pause for a moment, he could have character issues.


The NFL might eventually go to a lottery system to prevent tanking, and I'd for it...its the only way the Steelers have a chance for the #1 overall pick in my lifetime besides trading for it.

[teegre]

Chase Young is impressive, but let's pause for a moment, he could have character issues.


The NFL might eventually go to a lottery system to prevent tanking, and I'd for it...its the only way the Steelers have a chance for the #1 overall pick in my lifetime besides trading for it.

If by “character issues” you mean that he took money... so does everyone else.

If by “character issues” you mean abuse/violence... then, I stay away.

(I haven’t read. Which is it with him?)

LOTTERY:
It’d make the top 10 more interesting.

[Edman]

Ben is aging poorly, coming off an elbow injury, and the B’s are gone.

Even if Ben returns in 2020, there is no sure thing he and the Offense will even return to the level of where it once was. He may even regress to Rudolph/Hodges level, which is worse because his cost is much greater. Not to mention the O Line May lose some key pieces.

The Steelers did the right thing trading for Minkah. A good Defense at least gives them a chance while they search for their next QB or Develop Rudolph.

[pczach]

If by “character issues” you mean that he took money... so does everyone else.

If by “character issues” you mean abuse/violence... then, I stay away.

(I haven’t read. Which is it with him?)

LOTTERY:
It’d make the top 10 more interesting.



He borrowed money from a family friend to fly his girlfriend to the Rose Bowl last year. He claims he paid the family friend back.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy.

They have players spend hours and hours every week on football.

They want them to spend time in the classroom and study to be real students.

They won't allow these kids to work to earn any money because they are worried about them being paid for not actually working.

How the hell do they expect these kids to be able to live regular lives and do the things that every other kid can do if they won't let them work for a living and they come from a family that doesn't have the money to support them away from home?

I truly don't know if he paid the friend back or not, but something has to change. These kids are put in a no-win situation.

This is not a character issue.

[teegre]

If by “character issues” you mean that he took money... so does everyone else.

If by “character issues” you mean abuse/violence... then, I stay away.

(I haven’t read. Which is it with him?)

LOTTERY:
It’d make the top 10 more interesting.

I just read about it.

Chase borrowed money to fly his girlfriend out to watch him play in the Rose Bowl. He paid it back. Ergo... uh... WTF!?!

- - - Updated - - -


He borrowed money from a family friend to fly his girlfriend to the Rose Bowl last year. He claims he paid the family friend back.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy.

They have players spend hours and hours every week on football.

They want them to spend time in the classroom and study to be real students.

They won't allow these kids to work to earn any money because they are worried about them being paid for not actually working.

How the hell do they expect these kids to be able to live regular lives and do the things that every other kid can do if they won't let them work for a living and they come from a family that doesn't have the money to support them away from home?

I truly don't know if he paid the friend back or not, but something has to change. These kids are put in a no-win situation.

This is not a character issue.

Yep :nod:

[Six Rings]

If by “character issues” you mean that he took money... so does everyone else.

If by “character issues” you mean abuse/violence... then, I stay away.

(I haven’t read. Which is it with him?)

LOTTERY:
It’d make the top 10 more interesting.

What's know is he's suspended for 4 games by taking a " loan " partly used to fly his girlfriend around.

Not everyone takes money, but I think the ones who do and get caught are more likely to be character risks. This was not wise. If your going to be a top 10 pick, don't break any rules, it can only hurt you.

On the thought of an NFL lottery, its might actually help bad teams like the Jets and Browns if they lose their #1 overall pick in the lottery as guy who they picked #1 or #2 overall usually turns out to be a bust might be off the board allowing them to make the better choice on say the 3rd or 4th pick overall pick. Ha!

Yes to the NFL lottery with NBA like odds and rules. Draw the lottery after the Super Bowl, but before the combine and free agency starts...the dark period for teams. It would be a very interesting! If they did it during the pro bowl half time people might actually go back to caring about that " Game "

[Born2Steel]

Differing opinions on what should or should not be termed 'paying players'. I see nothing wrong with a player taking a loan as long as he does pay it back. Maybe he should be charged interest so it doesn't show favoritism? Bottom line is the NCAA is corrupt beyond words and trying to fix it seems impossible. College football and basketball is a HUGE business that rivals everything else you can think of. The playing field is not level and if institutions are allowed to legally pay their players it will only get worse, IMO. Needs to be a completely separate body that governs player payment if it ever happens. You CANNOT trust the NCAA. It would be a conflict of interest as well as a business monopoly.

Chase Young(insert player name) could take that loan from said loan company and pay back on payments with interest like everyone else in the world. No NCAA infraction or question. Done.

[pczach]

Differing opinions on what should or should not be termed 'paying players'. I see nothing wrong with a player taking a loan as long as he does pay it back. Maybe he should be charged interest so it doesn't show favoritism? Bottom line is the NCAA is corrupt beyond words and trying to fix it seems impossible. College football and basketball is a HUGE business that rivals everything else you can think of. The playing field is not level and if institutions are allowed to legally pay their players it will only get worse, IMO. Needs to be a completely separate body that governs player payment if it ever happens. You CANNOT trust the NCAA. It would be a conflict of interest as well as a business monopoly.

Chase Young(insert player name) could take that loan from said loan company and pay back on payments with interest like everyone else in the world. No NCAA infraction or question. Done.


He can't get a loan from anybody or any lending institution because he has zero income. He isn't allowed to work by the NCAA.

Any other student can get a job and borrow money from a family friend or a lending institution, and nobody would think twice about it. They can't deny players a chance to earn money, yet not allow them to take money from anybody. It's stupid beyond belief.

[86WARD]

True... but...

Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > QB20 + Davis




All that needs to be said...

[Butch]

Chase Young is impressive, but let's pause for a moment, he could have character issues.


The NFL might eventually go to a lottery system to prevent tanking, and I'd for it...its the only way the Steelers have a chance for the #1 overall pick in my lifetime besides trading for it.

1st off when has any good NFL team tanked a season to get a higher draft pick? The Steelers could have easily tanked the season when Ben went down in week 2 and gotten a great pick, but why??? This is a chance to see what kind of backup QB you have and what kind of character the team has when the franchise QB goes down. A chance to see who steps up and who you are going to pay to keep.

I am not liking what I am hearing yinz say about a lottery. I don't like it and it doesn't need to be inserted into the NFL there is no reason for it. If you want to make the probowl better get rid of the current format and make it some sort of skills competition and then go back to having it after the SB. IMHO the fairest system is the one that is currently in place. It allows teams that suck to either make a great draft or they can trade out to get more picks. Hopefully it helps those teams get better. I would argue that a team in the NFL has the best chance of going from worst to 1st than any other sport.

I am and always have been happy with the Minkah trade. I believe that Ben will be back for the next couple years and I like that we have put faith in Rudolph to lead this team and get some much needed experience. There is no guarantee that the next QB brought in will fair any better. Those QBs are diamonds in the rough and even getting a high draft pick does not mean they will be successful.

[Craic]

He borrowed money from a family friend to fly his girlfriend to the Rose Bowl last year. He claims he paid the family friend back.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy.

They have players spend hours and hours every week on football.

They want them to spend time in the classroom and study to be real students.

They won't allow these kids to work to earn any money because they are worried about them being paid for not actually working.

How the hell do they expect these kids to be able to live regular lives and do the things that every other kid can do if they won't let them work for a living and they come from a family that doesn't have the money to support them away from home?

I truly don't know if he paid the friend back or not, but something has to change. These kids are put in a no-win situation.

This is not a character issue.
Some context, here.

Most (up to 85 student on each team) of these players are on full-ride scholarships. That means tuition, room and board, books, and so on. Other students get help getting Pell Grants so they don't add up under the scholarship rule. They're also in the sports program which is basically free health care as well. So, in fact, they are getting paid. In fact, average out-of-state tuition at a 4 year public university is 25k. Room and board is around 10k a year right now (or more depending on where you go). Books are around $1250 a year. The healthcare they get is probably worth around $6000 a year (just figuring how much individual policies are). So, in reality, scholarship player are making $43,500 a year. Starting at 18 years old. Let's put that in perspective. The average starting salary for a graduate out of college is right around fifty thousand dollars. But, they have to pay taxes, medicare, SSI, health insurance, and so on. None of which a college athlete pays for that $43,500.

Are there still legitimate needs not covered? Yes. Clothes. Perhaps a computer if it is not mandatory for the school (which then could be covered by the scholarship). But this notion that NCAA players are being paid is far from the truth.

[pczach]

Some context, here.

Most of these players are on full-ride scholarships. That means tuition, room and board, books, and so on. They're also in the sports program which is basically free health care as well. So, in fact, they are getting paid. In fact, average out-of-state tuition at a 4 year public university is 25k. Room and board is around 10k a year right now (or more depending on where you go). Books are around $1250 a year. The healthcare they get is probably worth around $6000 a year (just figuring how much individual policies are). So, in reality, scholarship player are making $43,500 a year. Starting at 18 years old usually. Moreover, they can get money for transportation home and back under NCAA guidelines.

Are there still legitimate needs not covered? Yes. Clothes. Perhaps a computer if it is not mandatory for the school (which then could be covered by the scholarship). But this notion that NCAA players are being paid is far from the truth.


We are talking about money towards anything that isn't related to football. I know that they get compensation in the form of education and everything you mention above.

So you're saying a kid shouldn't be able to go to a movie, take a girl on a date, or go for something to eat on free time while out with friends? If a kid isn't allowed a way to earn any money, they have to be allowed a way to be able to live as something other than a football player like every other kid gets to do.....period.

[Born2Steel]

He can't get a loan from anybody or any lending institution because he has zero income. He isn't allowed to work by the NCAA.

Any other student can get a job and borrow money from a family friend or a lending institution, and nobody would think twice about it. They can't deny players a chance to earn money, yet not allow them to take money from anybody. It's stupid beyond belief.

Correct. Which is why I offered one possible solution.

[Craic]

We are talking about money towards anything that isn't related to football. I know that they get compensation in the form of education and everything you mention above.

So you're saying a kid shouldn't be able to go to a movie, take a girl on a date, or go for something to eat on free time while out with friends? If a kid isn't allowed a way to earn any money, they have to be allowed a way to be able to live as something other than a football player like every other kid gets to do.....period.

You missed something in my post.
Are there still legitimate needs not covered? Yes. My argument isn't that the system now is perfect or complete. Only that the idea of them not being "paid" is far off the mark. They're getting paid a great deal. What we're talking about now is freeing up some of those funds for other areas.

Honestly, I'd have no problem with the full-ride scholarships providing players with a $250-$300 a month stipend. On the other hand, there are a whole lot of kids in college who can't afford to go to movies, eat out with friends, and so on, and they play no sports at all. Heck, I went to the theater, I think, one time when I was in college. That is, until I found a dollar theater (and I was in my last year with a smaller load so I could work). Eating out: you do realize that today, the "board" part of room and board includes restaurants and fast food all over campus, right? At the college I'm working at now, we have a nice restaurant a few blocks off the main campus (ran by business students so they can get experience. It is attached to a hotel also ran by students as part of their college training). We have 12-15 different restaurants and fast food chains on campus. And, we even have a small grocery/school items store (not a book store). EVERY ONE of those places will accept the credits students get as part of their "board" in room and board.

[pczach]

You missed something in my post. My argument isn't that the system now is perfect or complete. Only that the idea of them not being "paid" is far off the mark. They're getting paid a great deal. What we're talking about now is freeing up some of those funds for other areas.

Honestly, I'd have no problem with the full-ride scholarships providing players with a $250-$300 a month stipend. On the other hand, there are a whole lot of kids in college who can't afford to go to movies, eat out with friends, and so on, and they play no sports at all. Heck, I went to the theater, I think, one time when I was in college. That is, until I found a dollar theater (and I was in my last year with a smaller load so I could work). Eating out: you do realize that today, the "board" part of room and board includes restaurants and fast food all over campus, right? At the college I'm working at now, we have a nice restaurant a few blocks off the main campus (ran by business students so they can get experience. It is attached to a hotel also ran by students as part of their college training). We have 12-15 different restaurants and fast food chains on campus. And, we even have a small grocery/school items store (not a book store). EVERY ONE of those places will accept the credits students get as part of their "board" in room and board.




I never said anything about them not getting compensated with education, health care, etc... Yet you posted as if I had. I never said they don't get paid. I said they aren't allowed to earn any money while in school to pay for other things.

Now I respond to your post listing everything that comes with a scholarship, and I'm not supposed to do that because you say "Are there still legitimate needs not covered? Yes."? I didn't miss anything in your post. It's just that those eight words are a small fraction of your post that didn't really address the issue I was talking about in any way.

You are correct, the college covers a lot. There are also kids whose parents pay for their education in full. They don't have to work. They show up in BMW's, Mercedes, etc.. They get sent all the money they need to buy whatever they want and go wherever they want.

The point is that the players don't have the freedom to do any of that, even if they want to. Even if they are smart enough to do their schoolwork easily and want to be able to work to earn money. They can't do it and are forced to live under a set of rules that don't apply to anyone else. They can't afford to go on a date or go off campus for anything if it involves money. Not unless their parents can pay for it.

I feel sorry for anybody that has to work their way through college and pay for their own education. I'm not trying to diminish how hard that is to do. Then when they get out of college, they are paying down their college loans for years and sometimes decades. It sucks.

For the record, I always argue with people that say the poor athletes don't get anything for playing football. I'm with you that they get an education paid for along with the room and board, books, food, health care, etc.. I understand that. It's just time for a monthly stipend to allow football players the ability to enjoy everything that every other student can. It's time for these young men to try to learn how to manage money and how to budget for things. Then if they take any money from anybody other than their parents....it should be a major violation with no exceptions.

[Craic]

I never said anything about them not getting compensated with education, health care, etc... Yet you posted as if I had. I never said they don't get paid. I said they aren't allowed to earn any money while in school to pay for other things.

Now I respond to your post listing everything that comes with a scholarship, and I'm not supposed to do that because you say "Are there still legitimate needs not covered? Yes."? I didn't miss anything in your post. It's just that those eight words are a small fraction of your post that didn't really address the issue I was talking about in any way.

You are correct, the college covers a lot. There are also kids whose parents pay for their education in full. They don't have to work. They show up in BMW's, Mercedes, etc.. They get sent all the money they need to buy whatever they want and go wherever they want.

The point is that the players don't have the freedom to do any of that, even if they want to. Even if they are smart enough to do their schoolwork easily and want to be able to work to earn money. They can't do it and are forced to live under a set of rules that don't apply to anyone else. They can't afford to go on a date or go off campus for anything if it involves money. Not unless their parents can pay for it.

I feel sorry for anybody that has to work their way through college and pay for their own education. I'm not trying to diminish how hard that is to do. Then when they get out of college, they are paying down their college loans for years and sometimes decades. It sucks.

For the record, I always argue with people that say the poor athletes don't get anything for playing football. I'm with you that they get an education paid for along with the room and board, books, food, health care, etc.. I understand that. It's just time for a monthly stipend to allow football players the ability to enjoy everything that every other student can. It's time for these young men to try to learn how to manage money and how to budget for things. Then if they take any money from anybody other than their parents....it should be a major violation with no exceptions.

Perhaps we were missing each other, so let's let that part go. The bold part of your response, I think, might be one of the strongest arguments if people actually cared about preparing these athletes for their future careers. I mean, let's face it, very few if any middle-class, working-class or lower class/poverty level kids are going to known enough about investments, or have someone in their life that knows enough about investments and banking and budgeting large amounts of money. So, design the program for that very thing.

I've wondered for quite some time now why these schools do not simply create a degree called Professional Sports. So, you get a BA in Professional Sports. Make them take a year of statistics, a couple years of biology, a couple years of economics/business classes, two classes in personal asset management, some classes in public relations, so on and so forth. That'd be very beneficial and if you don't make it as a professional, it's still applicable in a number of areas. More so than English or Political Science or History, even. Within the major you can specialize in your sport as well.

Heck, if you do that, then you can also make it so anyone in that particular program gets a school stipend much as they do with Graduate students. Only here, they're getting the stipend for sports rather than for research or teaching.

EDIT: Of course, California went completely ass backwards on this and passed the Fair Pay to Play Act. Now, students can get paid for the use of their avatars, pictures, paid to sponsor summer camps, sign endorsement deals, and so on. The school can't pay them, but the school or NCAA can't force them not to be paid by others. This is a train-wreck waiting to happen. What are they thinking is going to happen when a 19-year old gets a $50,000 endorsement deal? Let alone it being a basketball player who was the start of his team in the tournament. Much smaller team, much higher name recognition because of it. That would be six or maybe seven figures. College sports is about to into the crapper (and, many other states are following up with their own legislation).

[pczach]

Perhaps we were missing each other, so let's let that part go. The bold part of your response, I think, might be one of the strongest arguments if people actually cared about preparing these athletes for their future careers. I mean, let's face it, very few if any middle-class, working-class or lower class/poverty level kids are going to known enough about investments, or have someone in their life that knows enough about investments and banking and budgeting large amounts of money. So, design the program for that very thing.

I've wondered for quite some time now why these schools do not simply create a degree called Professional Sports. So, you get a BA in Professional Sports. Make them take a year of statistics, a couple years of biology, a couple years of economics/business classes, two classes in personal asset management, some classes in public relations, so on and so forth. That'd be very beneficial and if you don't make it as a professional, it's still applicable in a number of areas. More so than English or Political Science or History, even. Within the major you can specialize in your sport as well.

Heck, if you do that, then you can also make it so anyone in that particular program gets a school stipend much as they do with Graduate students. Only here, they're getting the stipend for sports rather than for research or teaching.

EDIT: Of course, California went completely ass backwards on this and passed the Fair Pay to Play Act. Now, students can get paid for the use of their avatars, pictures, paid to sponsor summer camps, sign endorsement deals, and so on. The school can't pay them, but the school or NCAA can't force them not to be paid by others. This is a train-wreck waiting to happen. What are they thinking is going to happen when a 19-year old gets a $50,000 endorsement deal? Let alone it being a basketball player who was the start of his team in the tournament. Much smaller team, much higher name recognition because of it. That would be six or maybe seven figures. College sports is about to into the crapper (and, many other states are following up with their own legislation).



I agree with pretty much everything you state here.

The whole point of college is to prepare young men and women for real life after college. What started as a comment about a single player and a violation has obviously turned into a much deeper conversation about the state of the college athlete, and how political intervention is going to change the face of college athletics forever....and most likely not in a good way.

I also agree with you about the Fair Pay to Play Act. I don't believe that is going to benefit athletes as a whole, as much as it will the most elite athletes. It will create a divide between the athletes themselves, while simultaneously failing to prepare these athletes with the approach and the way this Act is written.

The last part of your post may be the worst. I still contend that California is basically using this legislation as a recruiting tool to make athletes want to come to California to play. It's the very reason that governments shouldn't have gotten involved in legislating a college and NCAA issue, and taken all the control away from the colleges and the NCAA. This now opens the door for all states to come up with some form of this, and college athletics becomes a complete shit show.

Wow....what a depressing way to end this talk.

Anyway, we are on the same page.:drink:

[Mojouw]

Student athletes at the elite level is a joke. These guys and girls are not students. They are professional athletes with a crappy pay and benefits package. NCAA sports that funnel logically into a pro program (football, basketball, hockey, baseball, etc) are already divided into two groups. Those that have a shot at the next level and those that know they wont be playing after college.

The NCAA and the schools are making a great deal of money of these kids. I think there is nothing wrong with putting a portion of that money directly in the kids pockets as cash. They are the ones taking all the risk and putting their bodies on the line.

None of this is about education or concern for the student-athletes. It is the schools worried about cash flow at a time when university budgets are being slashed everywhere.

[AtlantaDan]

Student athletes at the elite level is a joke. These guys and girls are not students. They are professional athletes with a crappy pay and benefits package. NCAA sports that funnel logically into a pro program (football, basketball, hockey, baseball, etc) are already divided into two groups. Those that have a shot at the next level and those that know they wont be playing after college.

The NCAA and the schools are making a great deal of money of these kids. I think there is nothing wrong with putting a portion of that money directly in the kids pockets as cash. They are the ones taking all the risk and putting their bodies on the line.

None of this is about education or concern for the student-athletes. It is the schools worried about cash flow at a time when university budgets are being slashed everywhere.

Agreed -Florida State is going to pay over $20 million in buyouts for a bad head coaching hiring decision that looked horrible from the first game and did not get through the second year of the contract. Meanwhile Arkansas is on the hook for $10 million to buyout its botched head coaching hire who also lasted less than two years when he was dispatched today while fighting to avoid paying another $11 million for firing the previous coach in 2017.

But it is all about preserving the “college experience” for the players by not paying them.

That ship sailed when the TV money to the Power 5 conferences caused programs to embark on an insane arms race by throwing money at coaches and facilities

Fun fact - nobody seems to be asking (certainly not the broadcasters for yesterday’s game) why Tua should not shut it down for the draft but instead have a surgical procedure to put his ankle back together so he could play on one good leg for the LSU game yesterday and risk his future for the “college experience.” Roll Tide!

[SteelMember]

Um, enough derailing... this is the Minkah F'n Fitzpatrick thread..... most Int's since Polamalu.

Wave your towels for this 2020 draft pick! :tt03:

[Edman]

I don't care what it takes. However it takes.

This Steelers Defense must be kept together as much as possible.

[Fire Goodell]

ALL PRO

[pczach]

ALL PRO


I think he is officially a DPOY candidate.

Think about that for a minute. Before Tuitt got hurt, this defense had three players playing at an elite level. Tuitt, Watt, and Fitzpatrick. Scary good.

[86WARD]

NFL.com is reporting that the Steelers are sending Miami their 2021 first round pick for Minkah as an undisclosed draft pick and out of good faith.

[BlackAndGold]

NFL.com is reporting that the Steelers are sending Miami their 2021 first round pick for Minkah as an undisclosed draft pick and out of good faith.

Lolz.

[EzraTank]

Imagine if this defense had great coaches as well.

[86WARD]

DPOY?

[Craic]

I was thinking about this earlier today. While we've seen Minkah make INTs in coverage, a lot of what he's getting is DONG Ints. Tips. :chuckle:

In all honesty, he is getting a few tips, but that's him being aware of the play and swarming to where the ball's going. He has a nose for the ball. But, we also need to take a moment and give props to the other DBs who are getting hands on the ball or pressure on the receivers that are popping those balls up. Fantastic job to everyone.

[Hawkman]

I was thinking about this earlier today. While we've seen Minkah make INTs in coverage, a lot of what he's getting is DONG Ints. Tips. :chuckle:

In all honesty, he is getting a few tips, but that's him being aware of the play and swarming to where the ball's going. He has a nose for the ball. But, we also need to take a moment and give props to the other DBs who are getting hands on the ball or pressure on the receivers that are popping those balls up. Fantastic job to everyone.

Agreed. A lot more ball awareness by almost everyone on the defense, including lineman.

[teegre]

I think he is officially a DPOY candidate.

Rodney Harrison certainly thinks so.

[st33lersguy]

Thank you Miami for horribly mismanaging him and making him want to leave. I refuse to compare him to Troy for at least another few years, but I will say I haven't seen safety play this good since Troy was in his prime

[teegre]

Thank you Miami for horribly mismanaging him and making him want to leave. I refuse to compare him to Troy for at least another few years, but I will say I haven't seen safety play this good since Troy was in his prime

He’s not Troy... and never will be. Sorry.

He’s Ed Reed. :wink02:

[Steelerchad]

Based on our ability to draft secondary players, I'll take the player vs. the pick.
Fitz and Hayden are our best 2 players in the secondary by far and neither was drafted by us.
We can draft receivers, but not safeties or corners.

[teegre]

Based on our ability to draft secondary players, I'll take the player vs. the pick.
Fitz and Hayden are our best 2 players in the secondary by far and neither was drafted by us.
We can draft receivers, but not safeties or corners.

^^THIS^^

[st33lersguy]

All I can say is that Miami HORRIBLY mismanaged him.

[Craic]

He’s not Troy... and never will be. Sorry.

He’s Ed Reed. :wink02:

Yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing. He really does have that center-field ball-hawking skill set that we've been missing for years.

- - - Updated - - -


All I can say is that Miami HORRIBLY mismanaged him.

Yep. That's what happens when you try to make a player fit a scheme rather than fitting the scheme to the player. We're seeing it this year with Bud Dupree as well.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Imagine if this defense had great coaches as well.

Everywhere Teryl Austin goes, his defenses create turnovers. I think he has had a behind the scenes impact on this defense.

[Fire Goodell]

Without Minkah it's debateable but we could easily be 3-6 instead. The dude made 2 huge defensive scores 2 weeks in a row

[Mojouw]

Everywhere Teryl Austin goes, his defenses create turnovers. I think he has had a behind the scenes impact on this defense.
I think you predicted just that early this off season. Great call.

[stillers4me]

1193786579312988161

[cubanstogie]

Agreed. A lot more ball awareness by almost everyone on the defense, including lineman.
Barron made some nice plays yesterday, I missed last 2 games so maybe it wasnt an aberration but I was shocked. The only guy who hasn't improved with addition of MF is Artie. Artie and Switzer are like tits on a bull.

[tube517]

Barron made some nice plays yesterday, I missed last 2 games so maybe it wasnt an aberration but I was shocked. The only guy who hasn't improved with addition of MF is Artie. Artie and Switzer are like tits on a bull.

Barron led the team with 10 tackles. I had to clean my contact lenses to make sure I wasn't seeing things.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think you predicted just that early this off season. Great call.

It could be a bit of coincidence that Minkah and Bush have 7 of the 14 INT's, but the amount of fumbles recovered as well makes me think its coaching. You can coach forcing turnovers and it creates a mindset of getting them, but its kind of the cherry on the top of the sundae and I think coaches have a lot of other priorities in coaching skill and scheme in a defense before they get to turnovers. Either way, its fun to see and reminds me of some of those Steeler defenses from the 90's with Lake, Woodson, Lloyd, Kirkland, etc.

[Mojouw]

It could be a bit of coincidence that Minkah and Bush have 7 of the 14 INT's, but the amount of fumbles recovered as well makes me think its coaching. You can coach forcing turnovers and it creates a mindset of getting them, but its kind of the cherry on the top of the sundae and I think coaches have a lot of other priorities in coaching skill and scheme in a defense before they get to turnovers. Either way, its fun to see and reminds me of some of those Steeler defenses from the 90's with Lake, Woodson, Lloyd, Kirkland, etc.

Agreed on all points. The onlydrawback to it is that several people have made convincing arguments that forcing fumbles is a skill, but recovering is all luck. But that is a problem for a future Steelers team. I'm just going to enjoy having a ballhawking defense for a few more weeks.

The one thing I have noticed is that, and maybe this is where Austin comes in, every single defender is going for the punch or rip on the ball every single time, but they are also tackling. It isn't an either or thing like it has been in the past. Nelson is really good at it. He seems to be able to punch the ball and wrap up his man.

[BlackAndGold]

1193852046287540224

Likely to be the future GM.

[tube517]

1193852046287540224

Likely to be the future GM.

I read or heard somewhere that Minkah already was telling his teammates where to be in certain formations in the first or second game he played w/the Steelers.

Also, notice there are no "communication breakdowns" in the secondary like we've seen the past few years.

[BlackAndGold]

I read or heard somewhere that Minkah already was telling his teammates where to be in certain formations in the first or second game he played w/the Steelers.

Also, notice there are no "communication breakdowns" in the secondary like we've seen the past few years.


Not a good look for Sean Davis.

[teegre]

I read or heard somewhere that Minkah already was telling his teammates where to be in certain formations in the first or second game he played w/the Steelers.

Also, notice there are no "communication breakdowns" in the secondary like we've seen the past few years.

THAT was why Ryan Clark was so amazing. He got everyone on the same page. We had something like 6 deep passes total against us during Ryan Clark's entire career with the Steelers.

Minkah has that... plus, the ability to make the splash play.

[teegre]

Agreed on all points. The onlydrawback to it is that several people have made convincing arguments that forcing fumbles is a skill, but recovering is all luck. But that is a problem for a future Steelers team. I'm just going to enjoy having a ballhawking defense for a few more weeks.

The one thing I have noticed is that, and maybe this is where Austin comes in, every single defender is going for the punch or rip on the ball every single time, but they are also tackling. It isn't an either or thing like it has been in the past. Nelson is really good at it. He seems to be able to punch the ball and wrap up his man.

Yep. In the past, I've seen them go for the strip, but then allow the offensive player to break free. This season, they are wrapping... and then stripping the ball.

Nelson wrapping his arms around the TE's legs not allowing the TE to get a first down was a huge play. It seemed like a simple thing, but a 200 pound guy stopping a 265 pound guy for no gain was an amazing play. Had a second player been close by, I'm sure that there would have been a strip... because, the TE was so focused on trying to get out of Nelson's grasp.

[Mojouw]

Yep. In the past, I've seen them go for the strip, but then allow the offensive player to break free. This season, they are wrapping... and then stripping the ball.

Nelson wrapping his arms around the TE's legs not allowing the TE to get a first down was a huge play. It seemed like a simple thing, but a 200 pound guy stopping a 265 pound guy for no gain was an amazing play. Had a second player been close by, I'm sure that there would have been a strip... because, the TE was so focused on trying to get out of Nelson's grasp.

While not as important as the additions of Bush and MF to the defense, Nelson should get more credit/talk.

Simply not being Burns of Sensabaugh would be an improvement and allow the team to do more things schematically but on top of that he has been really really good.

[teegre]

While not as important as the additions of Bush and MF to the defense, Nelson should get more credit/talk.

Simply not being Burns of Sensabaugh would be an improvement and allow the team to do more things schematically but on top of that he has been really really good.

Nelson is heady... and talented.

Much like Minkah.

[86WARD]

Minkah is always around the ball. There was one play yesterday that, I think, was incomplete and while everyone was standing there, Minkah ran in and picked the ball up...it didn’t look like the play was dead but he was one of the only people to react. It’s not all luck when this guy catches a tipped pass or recovers a fumble. He’s putting himself around the ball for the opportunity at that “luck”.

And yes...Nelson, who is often forgotten, is playing solid!!

[Shoes]

Minkah is always around the ball. There was one play yesterday that, I think, was incomplete and while everyone was standing there, Minkah ran in and picked the ball up...it didn’t look like the play was dead but he was one of the only people to react. It’s not all luck when this guy catches a tipped pass or recovers a fumble. He’s putting himself around the ball for the opportunity at that “luck”.

And yes...Nelson, who is often forgotten, is playing solid!!

I saw that also, Barron looked like he was standing on the corner picking his nose.

[tube517]

Minkah has more TDs than OBJ.

And, of course, Minkah doesn't need any endorsement from Tomlin. :tomlinism: :chuckle:

[Hawkman]

Minkah has more TDs than OBJ.

And, of course, Minkah doesn't need any endorsement from Tomlin. :tomlinism: :chuckle:

I’m almost certain that Minkah “doesn’t live in his fears”!:heh:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yep. In the past, I've seen them go for the strip, but then allow the offensive player to break free. This season, they are wrapping... and then stripping the ball.

Nelson wrapping his arms around the TE's legs not allowing the TE to get a first down was a huge play. It seemed like a simple thing, but a 200 pound guy stopping a 265 pound guy for no gain was an amazing play. Had a second player been close by, I'm sure that there would have been a strip... because, the TE was so focused on trying to get out of Nelson's grasp.

There is a great 2 man ball strip drill in this video and dozens more that can be done. I don't know what is different from this season and seasons past in the way of this kind of practice and JUGS machine use with the defense, but if you practice them enough, they become habit forming and IMO they result in turnovers. All the secondary has a nose for the football, but if they practice scheme and tackling, but don't do as much in the way of turnover drills, I believe you lose that edge. Hope they keep up the takeways.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcDS2HglShw

[ALLD]

THAT was why Ryan Clark was so amazing. He got everyone on the same page. We had something like 6 deep passes total against us during Ryan Clark's entire career with the Steelers.

Minkah has that... plus, the ability to make the splash play.


Ryan Clark, with all due respect to Mean Joe and Dracula, was also the hardest hitting Steeler of all time.

[Fire Goodell]

Ryan Clark, with all due respect to Mean Joe and Dracula, was also the hardest hitting Steeler of all time.

Great player, honestly the evolving NFL rules starting making him a liability later in his career. In an earlier era he would have been a star player

[tube517]

Ryan Clark, with all due respect to Mean Joe and Dracula, was also the hardest hitting Steeler of all time.

Donnie Shell was no slouch. He broke Earl Campbell's ribs and "Skoal Bruthah" was no small man.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Donnie Shell was no slouch. He broke Earl Campbell's ribs and "Skoal Bruthah" was no small man.

Very true, but I think guys like Ronnie Lott, Ken Easley, Jack Tatum, Steve Atwater were all bigger hitters than Shell. I also think Ryan Clark is kind of in that Rodney Harrison, Brian Dawkins class of S that were hitters, although I think those 2 guys were bigger than him.

[AtlantaDan]

Also, notice there are no "communication breakdowns" in the secondary like we've seen the past few years.

Another factor for that of course might be swapping out Burns for Nelson

But in terms of swapping out Sean Davis (who the Steelers apparently never made a serious effort to sign going into the last year of his rookie contract) for Minkah the upgrade by any measure is astonishingly great

[tube517]

Very true, but I think guys like Ronnie Lott, Ken Easley, Jack Tatum, Steve Atwater were all bigger hitters than Shell. I also think Ryan Clark is kind of in that Rodney Harrison, Brian Dawkins class of S that were hitters, although I think those 2 guys were bigger than him.

Ken Easley is from my area so I'm a homer for him. Loved Lott. Tatum (w/Atkinson) were assassins on the field. If they played today, they'd be thrown in jail and their fines would pay for a new stadium in Oakland and a haircut for Mark Davis

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

So true, the safety play of the 1980's and 90's would get guys kicked out of the league today. For fun, look up Brandon DeWilde from the movie Shane. I think that is who Mark Davis models his haircut after.

[tube517]

So true, the safety play of the 1980's and 90's would get guys kicked out of the league today. For fun, look up Brandon DeWilde from the movie Shane. I think that is who Mark Davis models his haircut after.

Man, it's been years since I saw Shane. Had to google an image of the kid. Ironically he has the haircut of Davis but could pass for a little Chucky lol

[Squeegee Thompson]

Thank you Miami for horribly mismanaging him and making him want to leave. I refuse to compare him to Troy for at least another few years, but I will say I haven't seen safety play this good since Troy was in his prime

Apples and oranges. Minkah's a FS while Troy played SS. The comparison to Ed Reed is a good one as a ball-hawking center fielder. That was never what Troy did or was asked to do. He was the guy to put your lights out when the ball arrived like Ronnie Lott used to do.

[Fire Goodell]

Apples and oranges. Minkah's a FS while Troy played SS. The comparison to Ed Reed is a good one as a ball-hawking center fielder. That was never what Troy did or was asked to do. He was the guy to put your lights out when the ball arrived like Ronnie Lott used to do.

I'll take an Ed Reed any day of the week, or any year of the century for that matter :chuckle:

They do have a striking similarity in the sense that they just seem to be in the right place at the right time. A lot of it seemed lucky, but honestly, when it happens with that frequency it can't be luck.

[st33lersguy]

Apples and oranges. Minkah's a FS while Troy played SS. The comparison to Ed Reed is a good one as a ball-hawking center fielder. That was never what Troy did or was asked to do. He was the guy to put your lights out when the ball arrived like Ronnie Lott used to do.

Not comparing role, I'm just comparing impact regardless of free or strong safety. The last time a safety elevated the defense like this was Troy's prime

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The kid is playing at a pro bowl level right now. Great trade. I'd say that Earl Thomas is getting old and Fitzpatrick is playing as good or better as Eric Weddle ever did. He and Adams in New York might be the best young safeties in the game. Put Malik Hooker in the conversation too.

[Mojouw]

The kid is playing at a pro bowl level right now. Great trade. I'd say that Earl Thomas is getting old and Fitzpatrick is playing as good or better as Eric Weddle ever did. He and Adams in New York might be the best young safeties in the game. Put Malik Hooker in the conversation too.
Spot on. I would throw Derwin James in there as well if he can get back from injury with no lingering impact.

[HollywoodSteel]

Not comparing role, I'm just comparing impact regardless of free or strong safety. The last time a safety elevated the defense like this was Troy's prime

Absolutely right. Yes, Troy played strong safety, but he defined what that actually meant. He was not simply a tackler. He often led the team in interceptions. And generally his interceptions were game changers.

But regardless of specifics, your point is that we haven’t a game changer in the secondary to this degree since we had Troy. And that’s absolutely true.

I’m not about to put Minkah in the HOF just yet, but if he keeps playing like this for an entire career, that’s exactly where he’s going.

I heard an interesting thing about Minkah from the Dolphins GM who scouted and drafted him. He said that, given Minkah’s football IQ and work ethic, he simply could NOT be a bust. No chance. By that he wasn’t talking about Minkah’s ceiling... which was the only unknown variable... but he absolutely KNEW that Minkah had a very high floor.

He said that the day that they first signed him to his rookie contract, they knew he was in the building somewhere, and they ended up finding him on the treadmill. That’s where he signed the biggest life changing contract of his life. It was his first time in NFL facility so his priority was using it to work out.

I’m sure the Steelers had already known all of this about Minkah as well, as they had heavily scouted him coming out of college. This trade was absolute no brainer.

The rest of us are now finally getting to see what the pro scouts already knew. Minkah was basically a no risk, high reward player. What we’re witnessing isn’t flukey success. Barring injury, this is what we’re gonna see from Minkah, week in and week out, for his entire career.

We absolutely scored a gem.

[tube517]

MFF is only 22

TJ is 25

Devin Bush is 14 (21)

Steven Nelson is 26

Terrell Edmunds is 22

Tuitt is 26

Cam Sutton is 24

Mike Hilton is 25

Javon Hargrave is 26

Bud Dupree is 26

This is a fast young defense with the old guys (Haden and Heyward) sprinkled in.

[GoSlash27]

Ryan Clark, with all due respect to Mean Joe and Dracula, was also the hardest hitting Steeler of all time.

Sir, a Mr. Hines Ward on line one. He says he'd like a word with you. Also a few gentlemen in the lobby. Several linebackers as well as a Mister McNally. Shall I ask them to hold?

[DesertSteel]

The kid is playing at a pro bowl level right now. Great trade. I'd say that Earl Thomas is getting old and Fitzpatrick is playing as good or better as Eric Weddle ever did. He and Adams in New York might be the best young safeties in the game. Put Malik Hooker in the conversation too.
I’d go All-Pro instead of just Pro Bowl.

[Squeegee Thompson]

I heard an interesting thing about Minkah from the Dolphins GM who scouted and drafted him. He said that, given Minkah’s football IQ and work ethic, he simply could NOT be a bust. No chance. By that he wasn’t talking about Minkah’s ceiling... which was the only unknown variable... but he absolutely KNEW that Minkah had a very high floor.

He said that the day that they first signed him to his rookie contract, they knew he was in the building somewhere, and they ended up finding him on the treadmill. That’s where he signed the biggest life changing contract of his life. It was his first time in NFL facility so his priority was using it to work out.


If this is true, then why in the world did Miami let him walk? You'd think they'd do everything they could to keep him around and make him the cornerstone of a roster rebuild.

Maybe it looked like the 0-2 Steelers without Roethlisberger would be sending them a top 5 pick, but now at 5-4 that pick is looking like a 1.18 or lower. It's unbelievable. If you have a high caliber, high character, high work-ethic young talent, why oh why would you give that up for the unknown of a future draft pick?

Whatever - their loss is our gain. This may be Colbert's best and boldest move since he's been the GM. It's certainly looking like the best trade they've made since acquiring some fat tailback from the Rams in the 90's.

[tube517]

Word is the Dolphins were trying to trade Reshad Jones to the Steelers initially.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dolphins-originally-tried-to-send-reshad-jones-to-steelers-before-agreeing-to-minkah-fitzpatrick-trade/

[Squeegee Thompson]

Word is the Dolphins were trying to trade Reshad Jones to the Steelers initially.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dolphins-originally-tried-to-send-reshad-jones-to-steelers-before-agreeing-to-minkah-fitzpatrick-trade/

Damn - a 31-year-old JAG vs a 22-year-old difference maker. I think we got the better end of that deal.

[Mojouw]

If this is true, then why in the world did Miami let him walk? You'd think they'd do everything they could to keep him around and make him the cornerstone of a roster rebuild.

Maybe it looked like the 0-2 Steelers without Roethlisberger would be sending them a top 5 pick, but now at 5-4 that pick is looking like a 1.18 or lower. It's unbelievable. If you have a high caliber, high character, high work-ethic young talent, why oh why would you give that up for the unknown of a future draft pick?

Whatever - their loss is our gain. This may be Colbert's best and boldest move since he's been the GM. It's certainly looking like the best trade they've made since acquiring some fat tailback from the Rams in the 90's.

Another example of how these Belichick-lite acolytes managed to learn the totally wrong lessons while in NE. Flores insisted that he needed another Patrick Chung to run a Patriots style defense. He was bound and determined to force MF to play that role - despite the player's desire and belief that he would be better suited for another role.

What Flores (and Patricia and Vrabel and all these other Patriots clown shows that get head coaching jobs) fail to understand is that Billy B has not been dominating the league because he played a certain style or he had a certain player in a certain role. It is that he Bruce Lee'd this stuff for a decade or so. He got smart (high football IQ) players that could assimilate and recognize stuff rapidly then he deployed them in ways that best suited their skill sets. He had the style of no one style, but adapted to the realities of his roster and the opponent.

In contrast, Flores goes slavish copier on it and forces MF to be Patrick Chung. MF doesn't want to be Patrick Chung and is likely football smart enough to have a pretty detailed debate with the coaches about it. So the Dolphins see a chance to grab a top 10 pick for a player that is going to be a pain in their arse because he is smarter about football than they are?

This is shaping up to go down as a straight up heist. Dont forget:

Miami will reportedly receive a first-round pick and a fifth-round pick in 2020 as well as a 2021 sixth rounder, per the NFL Network's Ian Rapoport (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1173795370121551873). Pittsburgh will reportedly receive a fourth-round pick in 2020 and a seventh-round pick in 2021 in addition to Fitzpatrick.

Look at that mess from the Steelers side:
So MF is a pretty darn good 2020 1st rounder (big win). Steelers swapped a 2020 5th for the 'Phins 2020 4th (win). Steelers send out a 2021 6th and get back a 7th. Anyone want to guess what the gap between those picks will be? Like 10-15? (Maybe not a big win, but if moving back 15 picks in the last stage of the draft gets you MF...).

OR to put this another way -- Minkah Fitzpatrick came to the Steelers so he could just go super saiyan!

https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2Fhypebeast.com%2Fimage%2F2018%2F03%2F dragon-ball-z-super-blonde-super-saiyan-hair-explanation-1.jpg?quality=95&w=1170&cbr=1&q=90&fit=max

[HollywoodSteel]

If this is true, then why in the world did Miami let him walk? You'd think they'd do everything they could to keep him around and make him the cornerstone of a roster rebuild.

Maybe it looked like the 0-2 Steelers without Roethlisberger would be sending them a top 5 pick, but now at 5-4 that pick is looking like a 1.18 or lower. It's unbelievable. If you have a high caliber, high character, high work-ethic young talent, why oh why would you give that up for the unknown of a future draft pick?

Whatever - their loss is our gain. This may be Colbert's best and boldest move since he's been the GM. It's certainly looking like the best trade they've made since acquiring some fat tailback from the Rams in the 90's.

The basic answer to your question is that trading Minkah was NOT in the Dolphins’ plans. You are absolutely correct that he was supposed to be the cornerstone to their defense, and a key building block for their future plans.

Their mistake was using him badly. Minkah is a great kid and a team player, but he’s smarter than they are about how he should be used. He wasn’t happy there and made it clear that he wanted a trade. They tried to talk him out of it, but Minkah knew that he could never maximize his potential in that system. So the Dolphins figured they’d make the best of it and possibly get an even higher pick than they spent on him from the lowly Steelers, who had lost their starting QB for the year.

So it’s not like the Dolphins were total idiots. They never wanted to trade him. But since Minkah really wanted out, they took what looked like the best deal they could possibly get.

And like you said, their loss is our gain.

Mojouw, in his response to you, breaks down how the Dolphins WERE total idiots. Not that they wanted to trade Minkah, but what they did to make him want out.

We can criticize our coaching staff for many things, but in this way Tomlin was very smart. Not just to acquire Minkah, but to LISTEN to him and use him in the way Minkah sees himself being most effective.

I believe the results speak for themselves.

A trade like this doesn’t come along often. It was the perfect storm of opportunity and circumstances. If the Dolphins could have it back maybe they try harder to keep him, and promise that they’ll use him how he wants to be used. But some coaches are too arrogant to ever do that. And Minkah was probably never going to be as happy and productive there as he is with us.

It’s the perfect storm for him too. He got to come to a really talented defense, where he really was the one missing puzzle piece to bring everything together.

So if I give Tomlin and Butler credit for nothing else, I’ll credit them with NOT screwing this up and letting Minkah shine.

[HollywoodSteel]

Another example of how these Belichick-lite acolytes managed to learn the totally wrong lessons while in NE. Flores insisted that he needed another Patrick Chung to run a Patriots style defense. He was bound and determined to force MF to play that role - despite the player's desire and belief that he would be better suited for another role.

What Flores (and Patricia and Vrabel and all these other Patriots clown shows that get head coaching jobs) fail to understand is that Billy B has not been dominating the league because he played a certain style or he had a certain player in a certain role. It is that he Bruce Lee'd this stuff for a decade or so. He got smart (high football IQ) players that could assimilate and recognize stuff rapidly then he deployed them in ways that best suited their skill sets. He had the style of no one style, but adapted to the realities of his roster and the opponent.

In contrast, Flores goes slavish copier on it and forces MF to be Patrick Chung. MF doesn't want to be Patrick Chung and is likely football smart enough to have a pretty detailed debate with the coaches about it. So the Dolphins see a chance to grab a top 10 pick for a player that is going to be a pain in their arse because he is smarter about football than they are?

This is shaping up to go down as a straight up heist. Dont forget:

Miami will reportedly receive a first-round pick and a fifth-round pick in 2020 as well as a 2021 sixth rounder, per the NFL Network's Ian Rapoport (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1173795370121551873). Pittsburgh will reportedly receive a fourth-round pick in 2020 and a seventh-round pick in 2021 in addition to Fitzpatrick.

Look at that mess from the Steelers side:
So MF is a pretty darn good 2020 1st rounder (big win). Steelers swapped a 2020 5th for the 'Phins 2020 4th (win). Steelers send out a 2021 6th and get back a 7th. Anyone want to guess what the gap between those picks will be? Like 10-15? (Maybe not a big win, but if moving back 15 picks in the last stage of the draft gets you MF...).

OR to put this another way -- Minkah Fitzpatrick came to the Steelers so he could just go super saiyan!

https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2Fhypebeast.com%2Fimage%2F2018%2F03%2F dragon-ball-z-super-blonde-super-saiyan-hair-explanation-1.jpg?quality=95&w=1170&cbr=1&q=90&fit=max

^^^ this ^^^

Mojouw does a great job of analyzing the Dolphins’ flawed arrogance that lit the match to enable us to make the best trade in modern Steelers history.

I find this stuff really interesting. On the surface the trade looks like a head scratcher from the Dolphins point of view, but they really weren’t so stupid as to want to trade Minkah. They were stupid in creating a situation where he’d want to leave.

As fans, we usually side with the team over a player in situations where a conflict forces a trade. But this is clearly an example where the player was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. And in my mind, Minkah getting his way was not only good for Minkah and the Steelers, it was a good lesson to be learned. Sometimes the player IS right, and it wouldn’t hurt to listen rather than ALWAYS arrogantly stick to your guns.

Maybe the Dolphins learned the right lesson from this. Probably not. But maybe.

[Mojouw]

^^^ this ^^^

Mojouw does a great job of analyzing the Dolphins’ flawed arrogance that lit the match to enable us to make the best trade in modern Steelers history.

I find this stuff really interesting. On the surface the trade looks like a head scratcher from the Dolphins point of view, but they really weren’t so stupid as to want to trade Minkah. They were stupid in creating a situation where he’d want to leave.

As fans, we usually side with the team over a player in situations where a conflict forces a trade. But this is clearly an example where the player was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. And in my mind, Minkah getting his way was not only good for Minkah and the Steelers, it was a good lesson to be learned. Sometimes the player IS right, and it wouldn’t hurt to listen rather than ALWAYS arrogantly stick to your guns.

Maybe the Dolphins learned the right lesson from this. Probably not. But maybe.

Thanks for the kind words. Not listening to players and making good players into problems seems to be a trend with these crappy Belichick wannabes.

Flores creates the situation that gets MF shipped out.
Patricia creates the situation that gets Diggs shipped out.

I am sure there are others. I just don't understand how these guys were in the building for so long and just come away with "Be tough! Be in rigid control!" and none of the useful stuff.

Anyway, this is not wholly an original thought on my part: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/5/20850798/patriots-bill-belichick-brady-super-bowl-lessons


Hopefully, MF can become the catalyst for a sustained run of success that a certain out of favor big RB was all those years ago...

[Shoes]

Another example of how these Belichick-lite acolytes managed to learn the totally wrong lessons while in NE. Flores insisted that he needed another Patrick Chung to run a Patriots style defense. He was bound and determined to force MF to play that role - despite the player's desire and belief that he would be better suited for another role.

What Flores (and Patricia and Vrabel and all these other Patriots clown shows that get head coaching jobs) fail to understand is that Billy B has not been dominating the league because he played a certain style or he had a certain player in a certain role. It is that he Bruce Lee'd this stuff for a decade or so. He got smart (high football IQ) players that could assimilate and recognize stuff rapidly then he deployed them in ways that best suited their skill sets. He had the style of no one style, but adapted to the realities of his roster and the opponent.

In contrast, Flores goes slavish copier on it and forces MF to be Patrick Chung. MF doesn't want to be Patrick Chung and is likely football smart enough to have a pretty detailed debate with the coaches about it. So the Dolphins see a chance to grab a top 10 pick for a player that is going to be a pain in their arse because he is smarter about football than they are?

This is shaping up to go down as a straight up heist. Dont forget:

Miami will reportedly receive a first-round pick and a fifth-round pick in 2020 as well as a 2021 sixth rounder, per the NFL Network's Ian Rapoport (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1173795370121551873). Pittsburgh will reportedly receive a fourth-round pick in 2020 and a seventh-round pick in 2021 in addition to Fitzpatrick.

Look at that mess from the Steelers side:
So MF is a pretty darn good 2020 1st rounder (big win). Steelers swapped a 2020 5th for the 'Phins 2020 4th (win). Steelers send out a 2021 6th and get back a 7th. Anyone want to guess what the gap between those picks will be? Like 10-15? (Maybe not a big win, but if moving back 15 picks in the last stage of the draft gets you MF...).

OR to put this another way -- Minkah Fitzpatrick came to the Steelers so he could just go super saiyan!

https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2Fhypebeast.com%2Fimage%2F2018%2F03%2F dragon-ball-z-super-blonde-super-saiyan-hair-explanation-1.jpg?quality=95&w=1170&cbr=1&q=90&fit=max


Yes, a R7 SB TE pick!!!!! :chuckle:

[HollywoodSteel]

Yes, a R7 SB TE pick!!!!! :chuckle:

You’re willing to wait for a 2021 7th round pick for our SB winning TE?

I figured you’d have your eye on the 2020 early 4th rounder we’re getting from the Dolphins.

I want to win the Super Bowl next year, damn it! We can’t wait until 2021 for our TE savior!
:)

[Shoes]

You’re willing to wait for a 2021 7th round pick for our SB winning TE?

I figured you’d have your eye on the 2020 early 4th rounder we’re getting from the Dolphins.

I want to win the Super Bowl next year, damn it! We can’t wait until 2021 for our TE savior!
:)

No, R4 won't work, at R4 they can either block or catch but can't do both.... R7 is where it's at they can't catch or block! It doesn't look like a strong TE class in 2020
:lol:

[teegre]

Fitzpatrick could have had one more INT (probably a pick-six) in the Rams game. When Heyward batted the pass down, if the pass had not been broken up, Fitzpatrick had a clean break on the ball and would have likely waltzed into the end zone.

Fitzpatrick jokingly gave Heyward crap about it. To which Heyward joked back: “I don’t have eyes in the back of my head.” :lol:

Clarification: I do not blame Heyward for batting down the pass; that is his job. There’s no way he could have predicted anything going on behind him. And, as they say: “A bird in the hand...”

My point is/was to compliment Fitzpatrick’s instincts (as in: he is often in position to make a splash play).

[86WARD]

Fitzpatrick could have had one more INT (probably a pick-six) in the Rams game. When Heyward batted the pass down, if the pass had not been broken up, Fitzpatrick had a clean break on the ball and would have likely waltzed into the end zone.

Fitzpatrick jokingly gave Heyward crap about it. To which Heyward joked back: “I don’t have eyes in the back of my head.” :lol:

Clarification: I do not blame Heyward for batting down the pass; that is his job. There’s no way he could have predicted anything going on behind him. And, as they say: “A bird in the hand...”

My point is/was to compliment Fitzpatrick’s instincts (as in: he is often in position to make a splash play).

I noticed that during the game and saw an article on it somewhere too...maybe steelersdepot?

[tube517]

No, R4 won't work, at R4 they can either block or catch but can't do both.... R7 is where it's at they can't catch or block! It doesn't look like a strong TE class in 2020
:lol:

We need our dong snapper in R7. Your SB winning franchise TE will have to wait!!! :lol:

[86WARD]

We need our dong snapper in R7. Your SB winning franchise TE will have to wait!!! :lol:

Don’t snappers come round 5...TE is and MUST BE round 7. As a matter of fact, I can tell you now that they will be drafting Carl Tucker out of UNC.

[pczach]

Fitzpatrick could have had one more INT (probably a pick-six) in the Rams game. When Heyward batted the pass down, if the pass had not been broken up, Fitzpatrick had a clean break on the ball and would have likely waltzed into the end zone.

Fitzpatrick jokingly gave Heyward crap about it. To which Heyward joked back: “I don’t have eyes in the back of my head.” :lol:

Clarification: I do not blame Heyward for batting down the pass; that is his job. There’s no way he could have predicted anything going on behind him. And, as they say: “A bird in the hand...”

My point is/was to compliment Fitzpatrick’s instincts (as in: he is often in position to make a splash play).


I saw that too. When they showed the replay from behind the QB, you could see Minkah breaking in front of the receiver to intercept the ball if it wasn't batted down.

Dude is all over it right now!

[Fire Goodell]

I saw that too. When they showed the replay from behind the QB, you could see Minkah breaking in front of the receiver to intercept the ball if it weren't batted down.

Dude is all over it right now!

Tellin you man, the next E-D Reed boyeeee! :chuckle:

[HollywoodSteel]

Tellin you man, the next E-D Reed boyeeee! :chuckle:

We’ve already had the best strong safety in the NFL. I’m fine with having the best free safety now.

If Minkah becomes the next Ed Reed, this might turn out to be the best trade in Steelers history.

I mean, think about this. Minkah is only 23. And he’s a serious student of the game. He’s only going to get BETTER from here.