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Born2Steel
10-29-2019, 12:35 PM
4 starts in who are some legitimate QB comparisons for Mason Rudolph? Not so much looking at glimpses of what he could be, what current/past NFL QBs does his game compare to today? Curious to see where this starts and how much it changes if at all by the end of the season.

AtlantaDan
10-29-2019, 12:37 PM
4 starts in who are some legitimate QB comparisons for Mason Rudolph? Not so much looking at glimpses of what he could be, what current/past NFL QBs does his game compare to today? Curious to see where this starts and how much it changes if at all by the end of the season.

AJ McCarron? (Bama then Bengals backup who played QB in the Burfict/AB playoff game)

Big numbers in college against non-NFL level defenders, no cannon for an arm, not particularly mobile or a running threat

Hope that assessment changes over the next two months for me

Squeegee Thompson
10-29-2019, 12:38 PM
Chad Pennington

Mojouw
10-29-2019, 12:44 PM
Pennington
Dalton
less mobile Neil Odonnell.
found this one on the internet -- Elvis Grbac

tube517
10-29-2019, 12:58 PM
Jon Kitna

FrancoLambert
10-29-2019, 01:19 PM
I’m going to give him a full season before I start looking for comparisons that have some meaning.

4 games, missing time after he got his brain scrambled...definitely didn’t look good at all at the start, but he rebounded pretty well.

As others have mentioned, the #1 goal this season is to find out if he’s a QB you’re committed to going forward post-Ben.

DesertSteel
10-29-2019, 01:22 PM
I'm looking to see how he self-corrects his mistakes last night. Based on what I've read, he'll do just that. I like the Chad P. comparison. And I'd take a healthy "Chad" for the decade of the 20's.

Shoes
10-29-2019, 01:23 PM
I’m going to give him a full season before I start looking for comparisons that have some meaning.

4 games, missing time after he got his brain scrambled...definitely didn’t look good at all at the start, but he rebounded pretty well.

As others have mentioned, the #1 goal this season is to find out if he’s a QB you’re committed to going forward post-Ben.

Agreed, We will see at seasons end.

Fire Goodell
10-29-2019, 01:25 PM
Neil O'Donnell. More of a short-yardage passer / game manager who doesn't make many mistakes. (that was my assessment before this game, I still think it's accurate)

With that said, I hope he's not a choker in big games like O'Donnell was.

Shoes
10-29-2019, 01:27 PM
I'm looking to see how he self-corrects his mistakes last night. Based on what I've read, he'll do just that. I like the Chad P. comparison. And I'd take a healthy "Chad" for the decade of the 20's.

I agree with this also. I think Mason is a perfectionist, which isn't bad, he just needs to get some of Ben in his game. :chuckle:

Squeegee Thompson
10-29-2019, 01:38 PM
I'm looking to see how he self-corrects his mistakes last night. Based on what I've read, he'll do just that. I like the Chad P. comparison. And I'd take a healthy "Chad" for the decade of the 20's.

What shetsh him apart is hish miiiiinnnnddd. (Slurred in my best drunk-Joe-Namath voice ...)

tube517
10-29-2019, 03:03 PM
What shetsh him apart is hish miiiiinnnnddd. (Slurred in my best drunk-Joe-Namath voice ...)

Say hi to Suzy Kolber! :chuckle:

Steeler-in-west
10-29-2019, 04:29 PM
Pennington
Dalton
less mobile Neil Odonnell.
found this one on the internet -- Elvis Grbac

less mobile O’Donnell? I think Rudolph has already shown he can move around better than NO.

Mojouw
10-29-2019, 05:11 PM
Kirk Cousins?

43Hitman
10-29-2019, 05:15 PM
Kirk Cousins?

That's probably pretty close. Me personally, I think Mason is going to develop just fine. A LOT of QB's struggle in their first year under center in the NFL. Peyton Manning comes to mind right away. Now, Im not saying that Mason is going to be Peyton, but damn, its only been four games for the kid. Let's exercise some patience with him.

Mojouw
10-29-2019, 05:17 PM
If it goes bad,maybe Sam Bradford?

Mojouw
10-29-2019, 05:17 PM
That's probably pretty close. Me personally, I think Mason is going to develop just fine. A LOT of QB's struggle in their first year under center in the NFL. Peyton Manning comes to mind right away. Now, Im not saying that Mason is going to be Peyton, but damn, its only been four games for the kid. Let's exercise some patience with him.

I'll try. Not my strong suit.

43Hitman
10-29-2019, 05:21 PM
I'll try. Not my strong suit.

:chuckle: I can tell.

So I don't mean to sound preachy, but do you exercise patience with students new to college? There is an adjustment period for all major changes in our lives, some adjust quicker than others. Some never adjust and you get Ryan Leaf.

Mojouw
10-29-2019, 06:10 PM
Absolutely, I do. I'm far far more patient in real life. Especially in non football realms!

AtlantaDan
10-29-2019, 06:19 PM
It obviously is a totally different business and media setup now, but wonder how Bradshaw not really getting it together until December of his fifth year during the first Super Bowl run would have played out in today’s environment :chuckle:

86WARD
10-29-2019, 06:33 PM
Kirk Cousins?

I may be able to live with that.

Steeler-in-west
10-29-2019, 08:17 PM
Just coming full circle and saying Tommy Maddox

PalmerSteel
10-30-2019, 06:53 AM
How about Ben Roethlesburger?!

First 4 starts
ben - 761 yds - 5TD - 2INT
Mason-785yds -7TD - 2INT

Ben had a hall of fame RB, All pro Line, and a veteran laden amazing defense to lead the way. Way too early to compare him to anything less. R-E-L-A-X

Shoes
10-30-2019, 07:36 AM
How about Ben Roethlesburger?!

First 4 starts
ben - 761 yds - 5TD - 2INT
Mason-785yds -7TD - 2INT

Ben had a hall of fame RB, All pro Line, and a veteran laden amazing defense to lead the way. Way too early to compare him to anything less. R-E-L-A-X


Yep!

SteelersNorth
10-30-2019, 07:52 AM
How about Ben Roethlesburger?!

First 4 starts
ben - 761 yds - 5TD - 2INT
Mason-785yds -7TD - 2INT

Ben had a hall of fame RB, All pro Line, and a veteran laden amazing defense to lead the way. Way too early to compare him to anything less. R-E-L-A-X

The difference between the two is that you knew Ben instantly would be THE GUY. I was convinced watching Ben that by his 3rd game the Steelers couldn't go back and by the 4th start at Dallas it was iced, and after the bye week when he torched the Pats it was WOW!
Ruldolph I'm not sold on. In saying that when he got lit up that play he made was Benesque so that impressed me. But that's been it so far.
I don't see that 'zip' on his passes like a Marino (not saying he has to be that way) but maybe he's more of a touch guy and that's fine just when he puts the ball up it looks soft to me.

Steelers D is looking pretty solid, not legendary, but super solid and it can get the ball back something that has been missing for about 5 years lol

EzraTank
10-30-2019, 09:51 AM
I posted this in the HERO/GOAT thread and I still believe it. With some more experience he could be a good Neil O'Donnell. So unless we build a championship caliber defense around him I'm not expecting him to be Ben's replacement.

His receivers really bailed him out in the second half on some really bad throws. He played "good enough" against a really bad team to win, but IMHO he is not the man and here is why:

- His deep balls lack zip and accuracy.
- He under throws guys horribly (again lack of zip).
- He misses wide open guys.
- He has no mobility whatsoever (I'm not asking him to be Lamar Jackson, just not a statue).

Yes I know it's only this 4th NFL start but compare and contrast him to Ben at that point of his career. Ben took the reigns and ran with it. Yes Ben had a great defense to back him up but that 2004 season Ben played lights out without fear.

Rotorhead
10-30-2019, 10:43 AM
I posted this in the HERO/GOAT thread and I still believe it. With some more experience he could be a good Neil O'Donnell. So unless we build a championship caliber defense around him I'm not expecting him to be Ben's replacement.

His receivers really bailed him out in the second half on some really bad throws. He played "good enough" against a really bad team to win, but IMHO he is not the man and here is why:

- His deep balls lack zip and accuracy.
- He under throws guys horribly (again lack of zip).
- He misses wide open guys.
- He has no mobility whatsoever (I'm not asking him to be Lamar Jackson, just not a statue).

Yes I know it's only this 4th NFL start but compare and contrast him to Ben at that point of his career. Ben took the reigns and ran with it. Yes Ben had a great defense to back him up but that 2004 season Ben played lights out without fear.

Ben also has the best rushing attack in the league that year. The only thing I question is the throwing behind WRs, he didn’t do that pre-concussion and in the preseason, I think that might have been the rust/fog. In fact I recall in the pre-season he was far more accurate and that is why I liked him. I will wait till after Indy to see if that was just this games rust/fog or if it is a thing going forward.

SteelersNorth
10-30-2019, 11:33 AM
Ben also has the best rushing attack in the league that year. The only thing I question is the throwing behind WRs, he didn’t do that pre-concussion and in the preseason, I think that might have been the rust/fog. In fact I recall in the pre-season he was far more accurate and that is why I liked him. I will wait till after Indy to see if that was just this games rust/fog or if it is a thing going forward.

if he's still 'foggy' as you say why was he even playing to begin with?
because he played there's no excuse he was a dumpster fire in the first half and got bailed out in the 2nd half by JuJu et al.
So far Mason has only made that one play that impressed me circa Ben 2004-maybe 09ish when he scrambled and got popped.
aside from that pedestrian at best but 9 more to go to see what he's got...

Rotorhead
10-30-2019, 11:52 AM
He was still off the first half, the second half he was much better, I expect him to be better this week also. He will hit the crossing routes just fine as he did before this game.

Fire Goodell
10-30-2019, 12:16 PM
He was still off the first half, the second half he was much better, I expect him to be better this week also. He will hit the crossing routes just fine as he did before this game.

Yeah one thing I liked was that he showed mental toughness and bounced back. 22 days of not playing a snap will have some rust involved, hopefully that's all shaken off since the next test will be a tough one.

Born2Steel
10-30-2019, 12:32 PM
I’m still waiting for his “WOW!” moment. He hasn’t done anything that poorly just hasn’t been special either.

ETL
11-06-2019, 08:51 AM
I keep seeing Sidney Crosby wit a football helmet.

Six Rings
11-09-2019, 12:20 PM
less mobile O’Donnell? I think Rudolph has already shown he can move around better than NO.

Yes, but his arm isn't as good, and he's not as good as a passer. O'Donnell actually became a quality passer and never really had a Good backs or WR's to work with for the most part.

Who does Rudolph compare to? Any pocket passer back up. Sometimes the guys start a bit due to injury, and are replaced the next season. As soon as the turnovers stop coming, and we play good teams, he's going to show us who is is. IE, A semi accurate and turnover prone QB.

To put in a Steeler context he's not on O'Donnell's or Maddox level's. I'll take Stewart over him too.

Rudolph looks a bit better than Kent Graham, Jim Miller...those guys who started games for us.

86WARD
11-09-2019, 01:23 PM
Steve Bono? Elvis Grbac?

pczach
11-09-2019, 01:29 PM
Steve Bono? Elvis Grbac?

It' a little early to really know, but Alex Smith?

Butch
11-09-2019, 02:19 PM
I keep seeing Sidney Crosby wit a football helmet.

This was what I was thinking too

Craic
11-09-2019, 02:27 PM
Yes, but his arm isn't as good, and he's not as good as a passer. O'Donnell actually became a quality passer and never really had a Good backs or WR's to work with for the most part.

Who does Rudolph compare to? Any pocket passer back up. Sometimes the guys start a bit due to injury, and are replaced the next season. As soon as the turnovers stop coming, and we play good teams, he's going to show us who is is. IE, A semi accurate and turnover prone QB.

To put in a Steeler context he's not on O'Donnell's or Maddox level's. I'll take Stewart over him too.

Rudolph looks a bit better than Kent Graham, Jim Miller...those guys who started games for us.

I disagree with you completely about Maddox. It was exciting while he was playing, but that's because we didn't have a receiver who could consistently throw the ball decently. Maddox did that, but he was also pretty scary with that ball at times. And, that was in his comeback when he had a lot of maturity and several years of NFL experience under his belt.

pczach
11-09-2019, 02:47 PM
Yes, but his arm isn't as good, and he's not as good as a passer. O'Donnell actually became a quality passer and never really had a Good backs or WR's to work with for the most part.

Who does Rudolph compare to? Any pocket passer back up. Sometimes the guys start a bit due to injury, and are replaced the next season. As soon as the turnovers stop coming, and we play good teams, he's going to show us who is is. IE, A semi accurate and turnover prone QB.

To put in a Steeler context he's not on O'Donnell's or Maddox level's. I'll take Stewart over him too.

Rudolph looks a bit better than Kent Graham, Jim Miller...those guys who started games for us.


You're talking pretty definitively for only watching him play a handful of games. I know he hasn't been making unbelievable plays and he looks tentative, but there is still room for him to get better.

I don't think anybody knows what the finished product will look like. He doesn't wow you with his physical skills, but he is still figuring out how to adapt his game to the NFL. I want to see him make more throws down the field to NFL-open receivers, and I think he will in time. I think he now has a solid base of work under him, and it's time for him to take a step forward in how he attacks defenses in the next few games.

I'm not going to throw in the towel on him. I want to see him continue to work on getting better and let time reveal who he really is as a quarterback.

fansince'76
11-09-2019, 02:59 PM
Maddox and Stewart? Umm, OK.

Just let me know when Rudolph starts repeatedly having 11-28, 115-yard, 3 INT-type stinkers and posting QB ratings in the low 70s.

And O'Donnell was an at-best average journeyman QB in every sense of the word.

Am I the only one who remembers just how mediocre-to-bad those guys were? Or is my memory just that faulty?

Craic
11-09-2019, 03:38 PM
Maddox and Stewart? Umm, OK.

Just let me know when Rudolph starts repeatedly having 11-28, 115-yard, 3 INT-type stinkers and posting QB ratings in the low 70s.

And O'Donnell was an at-best average journeyman QB in every sense of the word.

Am I the only one who remembers just how mediocre-to-bad those guys were? Or is my memory just that faulty?

I'd disagree with you on Stewart only because, if he was having a bad day passing, he could still positive affect the game with his legs. Not that I necessarily want a running QB, but it is a bonus. If Rudolph is having a bad game passing. That's it. He's one dimensional (as are about 70-80 percent of NFL QBs and probably 95 percent of the better QBs).

For O'Donnell, yeah, he was definitely a journeyman. But, I'd take that right now. He was probably 90 percent of what Fitzgerald could do at QB (speaking of journeyman). I do not think Rudolph, at the moment, is playing at that same level.

Six Rings
11-10-2019, 07:03 AM
I disagree with you completely about Maddox. It was exciting while he was playing, but that's because we didn't have a receiver who could consistently throw the ball decently. Maddox did that, but he was also pretty scary with that ball at times. And, that was in his comeback when he had a lot of maturity and several years of NFL experience under his belt.



Maddox took over after it was apparent that Stewart wasn't the answer...a few years too late. The team wasn't very good in 2002 or 2003, ( we were 6-10 in 2003 ) but Maddox had a 13-13 record in these years as a 2-1 record in 2004 as the starter For a fair comparison, the Offensive line back then was pretty poor, and the defense wasn't as good.


If Rudolph didn't have a defense producing +11 in turnovers or a good offensive line, you'd see the same type of mistakes too.


As a passer, Maddox is better than Rudolph.

Six Rings
11-10-2019, 07:28 AM
You're talking pretty definitively for only watching him play a handful of games. I know he hasn't been making unbelievable plays and he looks tentative, but there is still room for him to get better.

I don't think anybody knows what the finished product will look like. He doesn't wow you with his physical skills, but he is still figuring out how to adapt his game to the NFL. I want to see him make more throws down the field to NFL-open receivers, and I think he will in time. I think he now has a solid base of work under him, and it's time for him to take a step forward in how he attacks defenses in the next few games.

I'm not going to throw in the towel on him. I want to see him continue to work on getting better and let time reveal who he really is as a quarterback.


I've seen him play two full pre-seasons, and start 6 NFL games. This is enough to judge what he has and what he doesn't have physically speaking. In 6 games Rudolph played, the offense has only scored more than 20 points just once and that was vs the Cincinnati Bengals, who are the worst team in the NFL.


In that game the defense produced two turnovers, and the Bengals had 8 penalties in comparison to our four, which greatly aided the offense and put them in position to score points.


What in particular does he have that impresses you? Its an honest an open question to the board. His accuracy beyond 6 yards is about 42%. He does not have a good arm, in fact I think his lack of arm makes certain routes less likely to be completed as the ball lacks velocity for sideline throws and the deep ball floats a second too much, allowing DB's to get in position to make plays. His ability to hit a moving target on the slant is not good, the ball is high, behind his man or low too often. After a snap he holds the ball too long, I say because he doesn't trust his arm....guys are open. His pocket mobility is just okay, but it's clear he's not a mobile type of QB that can run for yardage. He's also a bit fumble prone.


When I watch the rookie QB's play, or the seconds year QB players, they all impress me more physically speaking. While its true he can get better with more experience, I'm questioning his NFL upside. I am not questioning his work ethic at all, its great and that sheds light on the problem as he's just not a starting quarterback by design.


Rudolph beat two worst teams in the NFL ( Cincinnati and Miami ) and to be brutally honest lucked out to be the winning quarterback vs the Colts thanks to a defensive score, and bone head penalty at the end of the half which moved Boswell in to range to kick a field goal, and the Colts kicker missing the game winner, that most other kickers would have nailed.


We play the Rams today. If Rudolph can win a game where his team isn't on the plus side of turnovers, he'll show me something. Sorry Steeler fans, he's not the future. He's a back up who if he has to throw to score will be turnover prone. Anyone catch the LSU vs Alabama game? I wish we could draft Joe Burrow, he's very impressive.

Six Rings
11-10-2019, 07:56 AM
I'd disagree with you on Stewart only because, if he was having a bad day passing, he could still positive affect the game with his legs. Not that I necessarily want a running QB, but it is a bonus. If Rudolph is having a bad game passing. That's it. He's one dimensional (as are about 70-80 percent of NFL QBs and probably 95 percent of the better QBs).

For O'Donnell, yeah, he was definitely a journeyman. But, I'd take that right now. He was probably 90 percent of what Fitzgerald could do at QB (speaking of journeyman). I do not think Rudolph, at the moment, is playing at that same level.

I agree with Craic. With O'Donnell this team can win a playoff game. Same thing with Stewart, though his problems with turnovers could sink us quick.

The NFL.com has their own QB ranking poll. While I disagree with Jackson's spot, they put Rudolph 29th of 32. He's ahead of a rookie hasn't take a snap ( Finley ) , another rookie who's playing really bad ( Haskins ) and an NFL bust ( Trubisky ) who probably won't be starting for much longer. Doesn't that speak to what I'm saying? And I'd point out both rookies are on bad NFL teams. Rudolph is not.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001074192/article/qb-index-week-10-lamar-jackson-vaults-aaron-rodgers

teegre
11-10-2019, 08:21 AM
Yes, but his arm isn't as good, and he's not as good as a passer. O'Donnell actually became a quality passer and never really had a Good backs or WR's to work with for the most part.

I disagree.

Barry Bananas Foster was really, really good. And, Bam Morris was as good as any of our current RBs.

Yancey Thigpen was great during those years. Andre Hastings had moments of brilliance (he ate Deion Sanders’ lunch in the Super Bowl). And, Ernie Mills was dependable.

Eric Greene was pretty darn good, as well.

I know that you didn’t mention it, but Dermontti Dawson and Duvall Love created monster-sized holes. Plus, John Jackson and Leon Searcy were dependable against the pass-rush. (As in: that O-lone was exceptional.)

pczach
11-10-2019, 09:58 AM
I've seen him play two full pre-seasons, and start 6 NFL games. This is enough to judge what he has and what he doesn't have physically speaking. In 6 games Rudolph played, the offense has only scored more than 20 points just once and that was vs the Cincinnati Bengals, who are the worst team in the NFL.


In that game the defense produced two turnovers, and the Bengals had 8 penalties in comparison to our four, which greatly aided the offense and put them in position to score points.


What in particular does he have that impresses you? Its an honest an open question to the board. His accuracy beyond 6 yards is about 42%. He does not have a good arm, in fact I think his lack of arm makes certain routes less likely to be completed as the ball lacks velocity for sideline throws and the deep ball floats a second too much, allowing DB's to get in position to make plays. His ability to hit a moving target on the slant is not good, the ball is high, behind his man or low too often. After a snap he holds the ball too long, I say because he doesn't trust his arm....guys are open. His pocket mobility is just okay, but it's clear he's not a mobile type of QB that can run for yardage. He's also a bit fumble prone.


When I watch the rookie QB's play, or the seconds year QB players, they all impress me more physically speaking. While its true he can get better with more experience, I'm questioning his NFL upside. I am not questioning his work ethic at all, its great and that sheds light on the problem as he's just not a starting quarterback by design.


Rudolph beat two worst teams in the NFL ( Cincinnati and Miami ) and to be brutally honest lucked out to be the winning quarterback vs the Colts thanks to a defensive score, and bone head penalty at the end of the half which moved Boswell in to range to kick a field goal, and the Colts kicker missing the game winner, that most other kickers would have nailed.


We play the Rams today. If Rudolph can win a game where his team isn't on the plus side of turnovers, he'll show me something. Sorry Steeler fans, he's not the future. He's a back up who if he has to throw to score will be turnover prone. Anyone catch the LSU vs Alabama game? I wish we could draft Joe Burrow, he's very impressive.


Here is his career stat line. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RudoMa00.htm

I don't know that he can ever carry a team. I don't believe he has that type of talent that he can just put the team on his shoulders and make play after play after play. I don't think he has enough physical skill to be able to be that guy. That doesn't mean he can't be a very good NFL quarterback by just being the point guard out there that distributes the ball and puts the offense in a position to succeed with his mind and with execution on the field. Tom Brady is proof that you don't need elite physical talent to be a great quarterback.

His early stats say he is more of a game manager than an elite talent. It also says that he knows how to take care of the ball, and doesn't make a lot of stupid mistakes or panic throws. His 10 touchdowns to 4 interceptions shows that. Some of those interceptions are passes that have gone through the hands of receivers. For me, I believe his limitations right now come from a confidence standpoint. I am not close enough to the situation to know all of it. We don't know if his mind is understanding what he's seeing on the field, and he just chooses to take all those checkdowns...or if he isn't seeing things on the field, and that is why he is checking the ball down. Until we know that, it is hard to make a determination.

I believe he is capable of more than he is showing. I believe it is a confidence thing and a mechanics thing. His footwork is suspect at times, and his mechanics break down when he holds the ball. I believe that better footwork will lead to stronger throws and more ball speed. He needs to be able to anticipate and make more throws in rhythm. I like that he is careful with the ball to a certain extent, but it can also be his greatest limitation if he isn't willing to challenge teams down the field. I believe his arm is good enough. It's the anticipation and recognition of defenses that overcome any of those perceived deficiencies, and trusting his arm and his receivers to make plays. If he doesn't take that next step, he will probably be a lifetime backup and spot starter. If he makes that leap, I believe he has a chance to be a very good starter in the mold of an Alex Smith or a Kirk Cousins. But that's if everything we hear about being a football junkie are accurate and he has the football mind that we seem to be hearing from the team.

cubanstogie
11-10-2019, 12:06 PM
I think being called a game manager has a negative connotation but shouldn't. A QB's job is to get ball to skilled positions. If AB and LB were around who knows what Mason could do. I know one thing he hasn't been giving games away like Baker, Darnold and Rosen. A couple of his pics were due to receivers and were big reason for losses. Good riddance Montcrief. So far he has been worth the 3rd round pick and could be the QB of future, jury is still out. IF not no biggie, theres a draft every year. I do agree this offense has to open up to beat good teams though, the game will dictate when that is needed. I would love to see Vance get ball but of course its a matter of time that he gets hurt with touches. I could care less if he cant carry a team, very few can but as long as he's a winner and has talent around him I do think he can be QB of future. Atleast until a franchise QB comes along. Which face it doesn't happen that often. What would Montana have done without best WR ever, along with 2 solid ones, a great TE in Brent Jones and Rathman and Roger Craig. Or Aikman with Great WR's,TE and Emmit smith with one of the best Olines ever. Even though both those two QB's hall of famers its not like they could "carry team". I think our skilled positions are below league average at this point and thats a big part of problem. With Steelers D and offensive line the strengths coaches have been bringing Mason along with training wheels, I don't think its that bad of strategy so far. I do hope the offense does progress and open up at some point though.

Mojouw
11-10-2019, 12:17 PM
The excuses and “yeah but with more of X” something good will happen is what bad teams with bad quarterbacks say all the time. Borttles, Trubisky, George, Tannehill, Marriotta, Gabbert, etc etc.

Even Cousins and Smith, the too best case comps for Rudolph at this point, showed more in their fist starts than Rudolph has. I don’t think that Rudolph has made one play that has made anyone sit up and be like, “wow. Would you look at that?”

After Donald, Matthews, Ramsey, and Weddle eat him for a late afternoon snack, I will be interested to see if there is anything positive to take away from the horrific experience.

People ask why the lack of patience with Rudolph and not with other infamous Steelers lightning rods? Well, just like Jones, Sweed, Burns, and Dupree - I like the Rudolph pick post draft. Totally talked myself into being on board with it. With Sweed, Burns, and Dupree, you could see NFL skills or physical traits. THey may not have translated to the field, but you could see them and imagine the player they could be. It looked pretty good. Didn’t work out, but there was something intriguing there.

The best I can see for Rudolph is he has oodles of leadership and the team plays hard for him and they believe in him. By all accounts everyone like Jarvis Jones as well. I am afraid that is what Rudolph will be revealed to be this season. A guy with all the want to, football IQ, and effort in the world, but just a fundamental lack of NFL ability.

pczach
11-10-2019, 12:47 PM
I think being called a game manager has a negative connotation but shouldn't. A QB's job is to get ball to skilled positions. If AB and LB were around who knows what Mason could do. I know one thing he hasn't been giving games away like Baker, Darnold and Rosen. A couple of his pics were due to receivers and were big reason for losses. Good riddance Montcrief. So far he has been worth the 3rd round pick and could be the QB of future, jury is still out. IF not no biggie, theres a draft every year. I do agree this offense has to open up to beat good teams though, the game will dictate when that is needed. I would love to see Vance get ball but of course its a matter of time that he gets hurt with touches. I could care less if he cant carry a team, very few can but as long as he's a winner and has talent around him I do think he can be QB of future. Atleast until a franchise QB comes along. Which face it doesn't happen that often. What would Montana have done without best WR ever, along with 2 solid ones, a great TE in Brent Jones and Rathman and Roger Craig. Or Aikman with Great WR's,TE and Emmit smith with one of the best Olines ever. Even though both those two QB's hall of famers its not like they could "carry team". I think our skilled positions are below league average at this point and thats a big part of problem. With Steelers D and offensive line the strengths coaches have been bringing Mason along with training wheels, I don't think its that bad of strategy so far. I do hope the offense does progress and open up at some point though.


I wasn't trying to use game manager as a negative. All quarterbacks manage the game.

You are correct. Elite franchise quarterbacks don't come around that often. If you can get a good quarterback that can get the ball to the weapons around him and has a good enough team around him, he's going to win a lot of games.

Edman
11-10-2019, 01:00 PM
We play the Rams today. If Rudolph can win a game where his team isn't on the plus side of turnovers, he'll show me something. Sorry Steeler fans, he's not the future. He's a back up who if he has to throw to score will be turnover prone.

Keep moving those goal posts.

Wasn't the big narrative going around Steelers Nation these past few years that the team couldn't win because the Defense just wasn't good enough making stops and turning the ball over? Now that the Steelers have a playmaking Defense, you want to hold that against Mason? So is Ben an elite talent, or is he just a game manager who needs a defense to win? After all, according to you, any Quarterback who has a playmaking Defense isn't a legitimate franchise QB.

Name me one quarterback who has won anything of note without a Defense or any supporting pieces of any kind.

Even after Fitzpatrick's Pick 6, the Defense surrendered a long touchdown drive (to Brian Hoyer) put the team back in the hole. Mason brought the Steelers back from the deficit and gave the Steelers the lead in the third. Then the Safety and Samuels fumble happened, and the Colts turned it into another 6. Mason came back and got the lead again. But wait, none of that counts because the Defense turned the ball over twice.


With Sweed, Burns, and Dupree, you could see NFL skills or physical traits. THey may not have translated to the field, but you could see them and imagine the player they could be. It looked pretty good. Didn’t work out, but there was something intriguing there.

Sweed, Burns, and Dupree didn't have NFL skills. They were athletes. "NFL Skill" and "Athletic skill" are two different things. Just because you're extemely athletic doesn't make you an NFL player. Dupree was extremely raw coming out of college, and it took him five years for him to show anything substantial, and even then, it comes with the caveat of a contract year and playing opposite of an elite pass rusher in Watt. Upside and "Intrigue" doesn't mean anything. If it's not there, it's not there. The Steelers can't win on "Upside". Martavis Bryant had tremendous upside, but it never materialized. He was cut as soon as his rookie contract was done. He wasn't any good for anything.

Artie Burns makes the Defense instantly worse the moment he steps out onto the field. That's not "intiguing" at all. That's terrible. When a player makes the unit worse by his mere presence, what does it matter?

So far the biggest knock you have on Mason isn't anything substantial like his body of work or the results, it's the "Upside" he doesn't have. I'll take it if helps the team win.

Edman
11-10-2019, 01:08 PM
I’m still waiting for his “WOW!” moment. He hasn’t done anything that poorly just hasn’t been special either.

There is no "WOW" moments with Mason. He is what he is. A brainiac, not a jock.

What will make him special at the end of the road is winning. Nobody will care about his lack of skill or "wow" should the Steelers pull it off today and somehow make it to January. 4-4 after an 0-3 Start. That is what "wows" me.

Sometimes I wish we go back to the days of Kordell, so Steeler fans can gaze in awe at his "wow" as he can't hit anything worth a shit and tosses three picks in a blowout loss.

cubanstogie
11-10-2019, 01:09 PM
Keep moving those goal posts.

Wasn't the big narrative going around Steelers Nation these past few years that the team couldn't win because the Defense just wasn't good enough making stops and turning the ball over? Now that the Steelers have a playmaking Defense, you want to hold that against Mason? So is Ben an elite talent, or is he just a game manager who needs a defense to win? After all, according to you, any Quarterback who has a playmaking Defense isn't a legitimate franchise QB.

Name me one quarterback who has won anything of note without a Defense or any supporting pieces of any kind.

Even after Fitzpatrick's Pick 6, the Defense surrendered a long touchdown drive (to Brian Hoyer) put the team back in the hole. Mason brought the Steelers back from the deficit and gave the Steelers the lead in the third. Then the Safety and Samuels fumble happened, and the Colts turned it into another 6. Mason came back and got the lead again. But wait, none of that counts because the Defense turned the ball over twice.



Sweed, Burns, and Dupree didn't have NFL skills. They were athletes. "NFL Skill" and "Athletic skill" are two different things. Just because you're extemely athletic doesn't make you an NFL player. Dupree was extremely raw coming out of college, and it took him five years for him to show anything substantial, and even then, it comes with the caveat of a contract year and playing opposite of an elite pass rusher in Watt. Upside and "Intrigue" doesn't mean anything. If it's not there, it's not there.

Artie Burns makes the Defense instantly worse the moment he steps out onto the field. That's not "intiguing" at all. That's terrible. When a player makes the unit worse by his mere presence, what does it matter?

So far the biggest knock you have on Mason isn't anything substantial like his body of work or the results, it's the "Upside" he doesn't have. I'll take it.
Well said, I just watched some dude from behind steel curtain rip apart Masons second half against Colts. Had everything in slow motion and was saying he missed open receivers and stated JUJU open all day. I think some on here are watching that guy and have bought in. Sure he has made mistakes but in full speed when Samuels doesn't even touch a blitzer Mason has zero chance to do anything but dump off, or take sack. It takes time to build repoir with receivers. Ben had it with AB but when he went down Ben was far less effective. I still say give this kid time, hardly time to replace him with hodges like dude on BSC says to do. Today will be very telling.

Born2Steel
11-10-2019, 01:20 PM
IMO.....Rudolph has had some bad luck with guys fumbling the ball in key game moments or we could be looking at a completely different win-loss record. In his first season running this offense he is already doing better than Jones when he left. The big question for Rudolph IS and has ALWAYS BEEN is he the heir apparent to Big Ben. As of TODAY he is not. It doesn't matter what he may become eventually because as of right now he has shown limited vision to see guys getting open. This has been demonstrated on numerous all22 videos and podcasts. However, none of those all22s want to talk about the things Mason does right. The OL has not been playing well whether due to injury or whatever. Rudolph's checkdowns are in a large part time running out and that was the open play at that moment. YES guys were coming open but did he have the time to wait for it? Did he even see them coming open? More plays show he did not see the player coming open at all which is the alarming part of the discussion. IF Rudolph can start improving with his downfield vision and anticipation passing Samuels can be an even bigger weapon than he is for Rudolph now. Imagine Brees passing with Kamara for checkdowns. That's how good I think this offense can be. For me Mason Rudolph compares to Alex Smith or Matt Schaub at this midseason point. Could be better, could be worse.

Mojouw
11-10-2019, 01:38 PM
Keep moving those goal posts.

Wasn't the big narrative going around Steelers Nation these past few years that the team couldn't win because the Defense just wasn't good enough making stops and turning the ball over? Now that the Steelers have a playmaking Defense, you want to hold that against Mason? So is Ben an elite talent, or is he just a game manager who needs a defense to win? After all, according to you, any Quarterback who has a playmaking Defense isn't a legitimate franchise QB.

Name me one quarterback who has won anything of note without a Defense or any supporting pieces of any kind.

Even after Fitzpatrick's Pick 6, the Defense surrendered a long touchdown drive (to Brian Hoyer) put the team back in the hole. Mason brought the Steelers back from the deficit and gave the Steelers the lead in the third. Then the Safety and Samuels fumble happened, and the Colts turned it into another 6. Mason came back and got the lead again. But wait, none of that counts because the Defense turned the ball over twice.



Sweed, Burns, and Dupree didn't have NFL skills. They were athletes. "NFL Skill" and "Athletic skill" are two different things. Just because you're extemely athletic doesn't make you an NFL player. Dupree was extremely raw coming out of college, and it took him five years for him to show anything substantial, and even then, it comes with the caveat of a contract year and playing opposite of an elite pass rusher in Watt. Upside and "Intrigue" doesn't mean anything. If it's not there, it's not there. The Steelers can't win on "Upside". Martavis Bryant had tremendous upside, but it never materialized. He was cut as soon as his rookie contract was done. He wasn't any good for anything.

Artie Burns makes the Defense instantly worse the moment he steps out onto the field. That's not "intiguing" at all. That's terrible. When a player makes the unit worse by his mere presence, what does it matter?

So far the biggest knock you have on Mason isn't anything substantial like his body of work or the results, it's the "Upside" he doesn't have. I'll take it if helps the team win.

I have plenty of critiques of Mason. They are as follows:

1. Lacks the ability to process at the required speed of the NFL. Does not recognize the pre and post snap coverages soon enough.
2. Demonstrates consistently poor ball placement. Forces his receivers to make difficult catches and allows DBs a chance to get to the ball.
3. Hesitant to pull the trigger once he does make a decision. Often double clutches the pass release even on open receivers. This even happens on screens.
4. Slow to work through his progressions and when he does go through them he often either bails too quickly on a route or doesn't stick on others long enough.
5. Sloppy footwork and overall mechanics lead to balls with low velocity, often poor/fluttery trajectories. This leads to incompletions and allows the DB to close on the ball. Often guys are open, but the late arrival of the pass allows the DB to close at the top of the route and contest the catch.
6. Throws with almost zero anticipation. Ball is often not out quickly enough for the WR to turn and catch it. Guys have to slow their routes, come back to the ball, and/or simply stand there and wait for the ball to arrive. Allows for incompletions and potential INTS.
7. Demonstrates poor awareness of the pass rush. Is often "surprised" by backside pass rushers. This could lead to fumbles. And has led to sacks that he shouldn't have taken. Needs to feel the rush better and learn to throw the ball away.
8. Fails to step up into the pocket often enough. Climbing the pocket more frequently would allow Rudolph to improve his base and perhaps put more zip on some throws. Oddly, when he does step up in the pocket, he has a tendency to step into the pass rush.
9. Has shown no ability to manipulate DBs with his eyes. Locks onto one side of the field and head rarely moves. This is going to result in INTS if he ever starts throwing it into contested areas.
10. Has not yet demonstrated an ability to work well in the red zone. As the field shrinks and the windows become smaller, Mason struggles to deliver. This leads to FGs instead of TDs. Failure to consistently turn his own offensive drives AND short fields off of turnovers into touchdowns is what allows games to be close.

Do you need more? I figure 10 might be enough for you to attempt to dismiss and blame on coaches.

Mojouw
11-10-2019, 07:30 PM
I am going to stand behind the posting I made prior to today's game. But I will also take my medicine. Against the Rams, Rudolph did an amazing job of demonstrating growth and progress on every single one of my criticisms of him.

If he continues to play like that and make even incremental progress each week, Rudolph may really develop rapidly over the course of the rest of this season.

Despite my negative posts, I am rooting for the kid.

pczach
11-10-2019, 07:37 PM
I am going to stand behind the posting I made prior to today's game. But I will also take my medicine. Against the Rams, Rudolph did an amazing job of demonstrating growth and progress on every single one of my criticisms of him.

If he continues to play like that and make even incremental progress each week, Rudolph may really develop rapidly over the course of the rest of this season.

Despite my negative posts, I am rooting for the kid.


He really did look good today. He threw the ball with much more conviction today and made many accurate throws down the field. Showed some real guts and grit to go along with showing what he is capable of with more work.

There will still be steps back at times, but he certainly looked like a solid NFL starter today against a really good defense.

tube517
11-10-2019, 07:39 PM
He has no running game and still won. That conversion on 4th down was huge. Long time killing drive

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8

fansince'76
11-10-2019, 07:43 PM
There will still be steps back at times, but he certainly looked like a solid NFL starter today against a really good defense.

On that note, Donald is an absolute beast. I was forced to listen to the game on radio today and it seemed like he was the entire Rams defense for as many times as his name got called.

pczach
11-10-2019, 07:44 PM
On that note, Donald is an absolute beast. I was forced to listen to the game on radio today and it seemed like he was the entire Rams defense for as many times as his name got called.


That dude is a monster.

Iron Steeler
11-10-2019, 07:48 PM
He looks like tom brady in his 2001 season.

look up those stats.

Edman
11-10-2019, 07:56 PM
I am going to stand behind the posting I made prior to today's game. But I will also take my medicine. Against the Rams, Rudolph did an amazing job of demonstrating growth and progress on every single one of my criticisms of him.

If he continues to play like that and make even incremental progress each week, Rudolph may really develop rapidly over the course of the rest of this season.

Despite my negative posts, I am rooting for the kid.

Rudolph hasn't looked much different from what he did in prior weeks. He still looks exactly as he did. Foepaws, but showing steady improvement. It helps that he's growing more comfortable due to his preparation, and finally appears to have a target downfield he is starting rely on. That's two weeks in a row his buddy James Washington has showed up. If only the rest of the receiving core can step up. DJ, Vance and Juju had some bad drops.

Aside from the fumble, James Washington had another good game and was our best receiver.

BlackAndGold
11-10-2019, 07:58 PM
Only complaint I had with Mason today was when he threw a short 2 yard pass to the sidelines on a 3rd and long. Played way too safe. He did not get help with his receivers also, 4 drops and 1 fumble.

He helped lead a good drive late that put Boswell in position to get a FG which put them up 5. That drive took a lot of time off the clock and gave the defense some much needed rest.

Mojouw
11-10-2019, 07:58 PM
On that note, Donald is an absolute beast. I was forced to listen to the game on radio today and it seemed like he was the entire Rams defense for as many times as his name got called.

An absolute one man wrecking crew. He almost singlehandedly kept the Rams in the game.

Shoes
11-10-2019, 09:25 PM
An absolute one man wrecking crew. He almost singlehandedly kept the Rams in the game.

and Fichtner kept running on his side. :lol:

teegre
11-10-2019, 09:37 PM
On that note, Donald is an absolute beast. I was forced to listen to the game on radio today and it seemed like he was the entire Rams defense for as many times as his name got called.

Let Hargrave walk.
Trade our 2021 R1 pick for Donald.
Use the money saved on Hargrave to sign Donald.

Mojouw
11-10-2019, 09:43 PM
and Fichtner kept running on his side. :lol:
That was odd Rams did a great job of moving Donald around.

Craic
11-10-2019, 10:46 PM
Rudolph hasn't looked much different from what he did in prior weeks. He still looks exactly as he did. Foepaws, but showing steady improvement. It helps that he's growing more comfortable due to his preparation, and finally appears to have a target downfield he is starting rely on. That's two weeks in a row his buddy James Washington has showed up. If only the rest of the receiving core can step up. DJ, Vance and Juju had some bad drops.

Aside from the fumble, James Washington had another good game and was our best receiver.

I wouldn't say that. Today, I saw step into throws a lot more consistently. He hit tight windows because he anticipated passes and threw receivers open. Granted, not every time, but no one does it every time. Maybe that's the "steady improvement" you're referring to?

86WARD
11-11-2019, 05:31 AM
Only complaint I had with Mason today was when he threw a short 2 yard pass to the sidelines on a 3rd and long. Played way too safe. He did not get help with his receivers also, 4 drops and 1 fumble.

He helped lead a good drive late that put Boswell in position to get a FG which put them up 5. That drive took a lot of time off the clock and gave the defense some much needed rest.

The way that play developed, that looked like a designed play or he chose, before the snap, to throw to Samuels. Even if Samuels catches that ball clean, there’s no way he stops, turns and is able to head up field. That play was a fail from the get go.

cubanstogie
11-11-2019, 09:04 AM
I wouldn't say that. Today, I saw step into throws a lot more consistently. He hit tight windows because he anticipated passes and threw receivers open. Granted, not every time, but no one does it every time. Maybe that's the "steady improvement" you're referring to?
everyone has different perspective , I personally don't look at a QB's footwork or care if he can throw from 80 yards on his knees like kyle boller. Mason doesn't have deer in headlights look like a lot of first year starters , he looks like he has command and to this point has taken care of football fairly well. Some will argue its easy when throwing 3 yard passes. yesterday he took some chances, his arm strength looked average, definitely not Chad Pennington below average but not a detriment in my mind. Every game there has been fumble , dropped passes, and dropped passes turning into pics to overcome, and every game he's giving them chance to win despite the mistakes. It helps having a dominate D again, but if skill players can stop fumbling and dropping passes this team could beat the Ravens. I know some have said they haven't see wow factor and I agree but I haven't seen wow factor from any offensive player yet this year. Amari Cooper had atleast 2 last night alone. Kyle Rudolph as well. I really thought Vance was a top tiered TE, but dude cant catch and even when he does he's a fumble waiting to happen. There were 5-6 TE's in last nights game better than anyone on Steelers. My point is Mason could use some help, Washington is starting to, and Deontae looks like he has potential but I would like to get a TE and running game for Xmas.

BlackAndGold
11-11-2019, 11:21 AM
The way that play developed, that looked like a designed play or he chose, before the snap, to throw to Samuels. Even if Samuels catches that ball clean, there’s no way he stops, turns and is able to head up field. That play was a fail from the get go.

I rolled my eyes when that play happened. Throw the ball down field.

DesertSteel
11-11-2019, 12:33 PM
Joe Montana.

Six Rings
11-11-2019, 03:10 PM
I thought it was Rudolph's best game throwing it down the field, but his accuracy is still an issue.

DesertSteel
11-11-2019, 07:57 PM
He definitely should have completed them all.

Shoes
11-11-2019, 08:07 PM
He definitely should have completed them all.


:chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-11-2019, 11:57 PM
He definitely should have completed them all.

I bet Hodges would have. :rolleyes:

SteelersNorth
11-12-2019, 08:14 AM
I know I'm in the minority but as it stands the only reason the Steelers are 5-4 is because of that amazing defense.
Rudolph is terrible in my view and for sure not the 'heir' to the Steel Throne.
What disappointing with the way this defense is playing is that it'll ultimately be a wasted season (as it stands)
I fully realize that if everything breaks the right way and the stars align they could make a run but I won't hold my breath.
I will say I am enjoying how insane this defense is though it's fun to watch them again :)

Fire Goodell
11-12-2019, 03:05 PM
Rudolph hasn't been great, but to say he's terrible is a huge stretch. Have you remembered how bad Dobbs and Landry Jones were?

11TD and 4INT isn't lighting the world on fire, but it's far from terrible. Keep in mind 2 of his receivers have zero experience. One's a rookie and the other's a first year starter. And the #1 is still trying to adjust to being a #1

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-12-2019, 04:09 PM
Rudolph hasn't been great, but to say he's terrible is a huge stretch. Have you remembered how bad Dobbs and Landry Jones were?

11TD and 4INT isn't lighting the world on fire, but it's far from terrible. Keep in mind 2 of his receivers have zero experience. One's a rookie and the other's a first year starter. And the #1 is still trying to adjust to being a #1

Yeah, but what is his fantasy football ranking? I'm sure that is what a lot of fans look at. :ranger:

Fans are spoiled by having a franchise QB for 15 years and either they were not fans back when, or are trying to forget the days of Bubby Brister, Mark Malone, Kordell Stewart, Cliff Stoudt David Woodley, Neil O'Donnell, etc. The better option is not Devlin Hodges, so I'm just enjoying the ride, enjoying the games and hoping Rudolph continues to grow into a Kirk Cousins type player, as I think that is possibly the ceiling.

Fire Goodell
11-12-2019, 04:59 PM
Yeah, but what is his fantasy football ranking? I'm sure that is what a lot of fans look at. :ranger:

Fans are spoiled by having a franchise QB for 15 years and either they were not fans back when, or are trying to forget the days of Bubby Brister, Mark Malone, Kordell Stewart, Cliff Stoudt David Woodley, Neil O'Donnell, etc. The better option is not Devlin Hodges, so I'm just enjoying the ride, enjoying the games and hoping Rudolph continues to grow into a Kirk Cousins type player, as I think that is possibly the ceiling.

He's gonna be a Kirk Cousins that doesn't throw game losing INTs, meaning he could be pretty damn good lol.

SteelersNorth
11-13-2019, 07:28 AM
Rudolph hasn't been great, but to say he's terrible is a huge stretch. Have you remembered how bad Dobbs and Landry Jones were?

11TD and 4INT isn't lighting the world on fire, but it's far from terrible. Keep in mind 2 of his receivers have zero experience. One's a rookie and the other's a first year starter. And the #1 is still trying to adjust to being a #1


If I went with the theory of fantasy football then Aaron Rodgers is by far and away the GOAT yet i find him grossly overrated for a multitude of reasons but mainly the over hype from the NFL media outlets.
I mean perfect example his 1 singular perfect passer rating game 4 games ago was got so much talk he was almost gifted the MVP award right then and there. On top of that it was talked about or come across as the greatest game played.

NOW, not saying it was an amazing game or anything of that nature BUT point being last season Ben throws his 4th (NFL RECORD) perfect game last year against the Panthers having more TD passes than incompletions and crickets.

Ultimately fantasy football skews peoples perception. Hell, Rivers puts up great garbage stats for 80% of his career and has a fluke season last year and hes a first ballot HOFer all of a sudden?...ummmm no.

Sure Masons stat line looks good but to me he's made one play that was stellar and that was the one he got drilled on.
You're not wrong about the other back ups we've had. But for me the best they've had has been Batch during the Ben era.
So far this Steelers team looks like the 2006 Bears with an amazing defense and pedestrian QB that squeeks out wins it probably shouldn't as a whole but the D comes up clutch.
as I said previous I hated the defense with how it played but since Minkah it's been awesome and fun to watch again so I hope it continues.

Hopefully we end the Browns Super Bowl run tomorrow night haha

86WARD
11-13-2019, 07:47 AM
If I went with the theory of fantasy football then Aaron Rodgers is by far and away the GOAT yet i find him grossly overrated for a multitude of reasons but mainly the over hype from the NFL media outlets.
I mean perfect example his 1 singular perfect passer rating game 4 games ago was got so much talk he was almost gifted the MVP award right then and there. On top of that it was talked about or come across as the greatest game played.

NOW, not saying it was an amazing game or anything of that nature BUT point being last season Ben throws his 4th (NFL RECORD) perfect game last year against the Panthers having more TD passes than incompletions and crickets.

Ultimately fantasy football skews peoples perception. Hell, Rivers puts up great garbage stats for 80% of his career and has a fluke season last year and hes a first ballot HOFer all of a sudden?...ummmm no.

Sure Masons stat line looks good but to me he's made one play that was stellar and that was the one he got drilled on.
You're not wrong about the other back ups we've had. But for me the best they've had has been Batch during the Ben era.
So far this Steelers team looks like the 2006 Bears with an amazing defense and pedestrian QB that squeeks out wins it probably shouldn't as a whole but the D comes up clutch.
as I said previous I hated the defense with how it played but since Minkah it's been awesome and fun to watch again so I hope it continues.

Hopefully we end the Browns Super Bowl run tomorrow night haha

Meh. Rodgers was the flavor of the week for a couple years. Now the media loves slobbing on Mahomes.

86WARD
11-13-2019, 09:37 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/27f79bcb738d2a4294e84d368b18b297.jpg

SteelersNorth
11-13-2019, 10:20 AM
because that's relevant...5 starts vs 5 seasons WOW!

- - - Updated - - -


Meh. Rodgers was the flavor of the week for a couple years. Now the media loves slobbing on Mahomes.

Rodgers after that perfect game was the MVP based on the overkill and hype
then he shit himself against a piss poor Chargers team

Yeah, that's true about Mahomes

Fire Goodell
11-13-2019, 11:02 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/27f79bcb738d2a4294e84d368b18b297.jpg

But he doesn't bomb it on 3rd and inches enough. Dong rating

HollywoodSteel
11-15-2019, 03:20 AM
But he doesn't bomb it on 3rd and inches enough. Dong rating

Yeah, good thing we don’t have Ben stinking up the joint. :grin:

fansince'76
11-15-2019, 03:49 AM
because that's relevant...5 starts vs 5 seasons WOW!

Agreed. "Chris Adamski" needs to take a statistics class - with a particular emphasis being placed on sample sizes.

And after that crapfest last night, I'll bet his QBR ain't 95.1 no more...

SteelersNorth
11-15-2019, 06:44 AM
Agreed. "Chris Adamski" needs to take a statistics class - with a particular emphasis being placed on sample sizes.

And after that crapfest last night, I'll bet his QBR ain't 95.1 no more...

I guess Ben was right about that pick being a 'waste' :behindsofa:

The Steelers have been their own worst enemy with this continually saying they had a 1st rd grade on Mason.
He hasn't shown anything that would even give you the minute hope he could've been one.
The crazy thing is they still have a shot at the playoffs cause this defense is still otherworldly

fansince'76
11-15-2019, 07:54 AM
The Steelers have been their own worst enemy with this continually saying they had a 1st rd grade on Mason.
He hasn't shown anything that would even give you the minute hope he could've been one.


Well, after all, the Steelers did actually pick Mark Malone in the first round once upon a time, not to mention start Kordell Stewart for 5 seasons (while wasting most of Jerome Bettis' prime in the process) which was also part of the team's longer 20-year "dead zone" behind center.

So historically speaking, this is kinda par for the course.

All we can do now is hope a "light" suddenly goes on and Rudolph gets better.

SteelersNorth
11-15-2019, 08:37 AM
Well, after all, the Steelers did actually pick Mark Malone in the first round once upon a time, not to mention start Kordell Stewart for 5 seasons (while wasting most of Jerome Bettis' prime in the process) which was also part of the team's longer 20-year "dead zone" behind center.

So historically speaking, this is kinda par for the course.

All we can do now is hope a "light" suddenly goes on and Rudolph gets better.

They also said Jameis Winston would become some amazing QB because of BA being the HC/QB guru.
You either have IT or you DON'T and Mason DON'T.

For him to make me personally think otherwise of him in these last 6 games he'd better light up the board stat wise and I use that loosely because who knows maybe the D has an off game and they're getting pumped so it inflates his numbers.
anyway in general his line has to be over 300+ in the air and 3TDs

But if he plays as horrible as he has been I'm saying Ducks fly together :)

To your point on other QBs you're correct. The early 2ks defense was wasted because of Kordell and Tommy
Then the Steelers got the most UNDERRATED QB OF THIS ERA to save the team...figure that one out!
I've said it before and I'll say it again because its a FACT
any of his 500 yard games especially the 2nd against Indy with the 6 TD passes - any other QB has that stellar of a game its talked about for EONS
name me a QB that makes 'THE TACKLE'? (I'll wait but I think I'll be dead before anyone can think of one) but again IF any other QB makes that play its automatically 'legendary'
Ben has 4...4 perfect games put those on the back burner. Rodgers gets one recently and that's all you would hear about for a week its gross.

It's amazing how the media has spun things to make certain guys fake legends while a guy like Ben (not saying he's a legend" but ranks up there in the history of the game, has 2 titles, set a multitude of records and STILL doesn't get credit for any of it.

I could go on but I'll move on lol

Mojouw
11-15-2019, 09:18 AM
Gee, I wonder what it could be that made Ben not a media darling? If only I could think of something...

...this is not some vast international conspiracy. Plus, I love this thread. Somehow it manages to under-rate Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes while at the same time over-rating Mason Rudolph.

Duck Hodges - credible NFL starter -- that is just hilarious.

I don't know if I should take this seriously or what.

SteelersNorth
11-15-2019, 09:49 AM
Gee, I wonder what it could be that made Ben not a media darling? If only I could think of something...

...this is not some vast international conspiracy. Plus, I love this thread. Somehow it manages to under-rate Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes while at the same time over-rating Mason Rudolph.

Duck Hodges - credible NFL starter -- that is just hilarious.

I don't know if I should take this seriously or what.

Sure admittedly he was a a clown before Brown took that crown (lyrics in my new rap album lol)
We can go down the path of guys that have had their issues one being Ray Lewis who magically got 2 guys to take a murder rap for him yet he's beloved by one and all

I solely base things between the white lines on Sunday.
Would I like him to be Mr. Happy why not but he's entertaining to watch and one hell of a QB that put the team over the top TWICE and if not for a Mendenhall fumble probably 3 times.

Aaron Rodgers - grossly overrated and a douche yet gets a free pass. I bet the media thinks Rodgers is so awesome when he takes a shit he never has to wipe his ass he's that amazing!
Hodges - not saying he's a credible starter but at this point just run the wild cat...can it be much worse with who's behind center?
Mahomes - he was trending in the right direction after last year but got hurt. Sooooo... ... ...I dunno

Steeldude
11-15-2019, 12:57 PM
Rudolph has a weak arm and poor vision. The Steelers will have to wait for 2021 to pick a QB in the first round.

DesertSteel
11-15-2019, 01:05 PM
He’s got 6 games to undo the damage from last night. He’s now fighting for his NFL career. I’m not optimistic but I’ll reserve final judgment.

Fire Goodell
11-15-2019, 04:06 PM
I was thinking He'd be Neil O'Donnell, but after this last game I'm starting to think he's Tomczak, someone who will be a career journeyman backup. Just good enough to stay in the NFL but not starter caliber.

tube517
11-15-2019, 04:26 PM
I was thinking He'd be Neil O'Donnell, but after this last game I'm starting to think he's Tomczak, someone who will be a career journeyman backup. Just good enough to stay in the NFL but not starter caliber.

More like Kent Graham performance last night.

Craic
11-15-2019, 08:33 PM
He’s got 6 games to undo the damage from last night. He’s now fighting for his NFL career. I’m not optimistic but I’ll reserve final judgment.

This. To be honest, I also saw some things I liked last night as well. He seemed smarter about escaping and throwing the football away (at least early on). I also liked the fact he showed better arm strength a few times and his deep throws had lots of air under them (and his receivers again didn't help him). However, most of that was fleeting.

My biggest worry, and I've said this before, is that he throws hospital passes. He does not yet understand how his pass sets up a receiver for a bad collision, and he waits too late to throw it or throws it in the wrong windows. That has to stop quickly or we won't have a WR corp.

Edman
11-16-2019, 01:41 AM
Last night was the thing the team feared would happen and wish didn't happen.

Mason Rudolph finally was exposed and had his "meltdown" game as a young QB. Horrible passes all night long and four picks. I mean, he was really bad. Indefensibly bad. As bad as everything looked, I believe Tomlin was smart to not bench Mason. It wouldn't have solved anything. If you're dealing with a young QB, especially a backup, you take your good with the lumps and move on. You have to see what the guy is made of, and how he responds.

To make matters worse, the Offense lost Juju and Diontae Johnson, and will lose Pouncey for the next three games. Making a very weak offense even weaker. So where is the answer? The solution isn't Randy Fichtner. He's useless. It's on Mason. Rudy better get over it and bounce back. The team really needs him to grow up and quick, and I mean gain several years of veteran experience overnight. He has no choice. That's what he has to do.

Steeldude
11-16-2019, 02:08 AM
A lesser version of Tommy Maddox, so far.

teegre
11-16-2019, 07:11 AM
Last night was the thing the team feared would happen and wish didn't happen.

Mason Rudolph finally was exposed and had his "meltdown" game as a young QB. Horrible passes all night long and four picks. I mean, he was really bad. Indefensibly bad. As bad as everything looked, I believe Tomlin was smart to not bench Mason. It wouldn't have solved anything. If you're dealing with a young QB, especially a backup, you take your good with the lumps and move on. You have to see what the guy is made of, and how he responds.

To make matters worse, the Offense lost Juju and Diontae Johnson, and will lose Pouncey for the next three games. Making a very weak offense even weaker. So where is the answer? The solution isn't Randy Fichtner. He's useless. It's on Mason. Rudy better get over it and bounce back. The team really needs him to grow up and quick, and I mean gain several years of veteran experience overnight. He has no choice. That's what he has to do.

Until the TNF game, Mason had avoided the “costly” mistakes.

Play great defense.
Don’t turn the ball over.
Eke our a win.

As awful as last night was, I didn’t lose hope for this team. Mason essentially handed the Browns four red-zone opportunities... and, the Browns only came away with 14 points. If Mason has simply thrown the ball away/we punted, this probably ends up a 10-7 victory for the Steelers.

With Conner, JuJu, and DJ sidelined, the team put the offense in Mason’s arm. He doesn’t have it (yet?) and he certainly wasn’t being helped by the drops. Heck, Holton almost had two long TDs. If he catches even one of those (and Mason throws only 2 INTs), it’s still a very winnable game.

SUMMATION:
If Mason avoids turnovers, this defense will keep us on every game.

AtlantaDan
11-16-2019, 07:34 AM
I was thinking He'd be Neil O'Donnell, but after this last game I'm starting to think he's Tomczak, someone who will be a career journeyman backup. Just good enough to stay in the NFL but not starter caliber.

Agreed - I thought the Rams game might be when we would see whether Mason could carry the offense if the Steelers fell behind - instead it happened Thursday night. Mason got worse as the game progressed with his chuck and duck passing. Fichtner is no NFL level OC but I am past blaming this primarily on Fichtner.

When the Steelers placed a first round grade on Mason they must have used the same formula that placed a first round grade on Artie Burns

SteelersNorth
11-16-2019, 08:23 AM
Until the TNF game, Mason had avoided the “costly” mistakes.

Play great defense.
Don’t turn the ball over.
Eke our a win.

As awful as last night was, I didn’t lose hope for this team. Mason essentially handed the Browns four red-zone opportunities... and, the Browns only came away with 14 points. If Mason has simply thrown the ball away/we punted, this probably ends up a 10-7 victory for the Steelers.

With Conner, JuJu, and DJ sidelined, the team put the offense in Mason’s arm. He doesn’t have it (yet?) and he certainly wasn’t being helped by the drops. Heck, Holton almost had two long TDs. If he catches even one of those (and Mason throws only 2 INTs), it’s still a very winnable game.

SUMMATION:
If Mason avoids turnovers, this defense will keep us on every game.

your summation only get you so far. A shitty QB is still a shitty QB no matter how good your defense is.
that shit has to be able to make plays at key moments and Mason hasn’t done that once.
like a lot have said he’s got 6 games left to prove he’s a starter or a back up...and I’m going with the latter to date.

the sad thing is how good could this team be if Ben didn’t get hurt...

Bluecoat96
11-16-2019, 10:35 AM
But if Ben doesn't get hurt, do we make the trade for Minkah?

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Shoes
11-16-2019, 11:16 AM
your summation only get you so far. A shitty QB is still a shitty QB no matter how good your defense is.
that shit has to be able to make plays at key moments and Mason hasn’t done that once.
like a lot have said he’s got 6 games left to prove he’s a starter or a back up...and I’m going with the latter to date.

the sad thing is how good could this team be if Ben didn’t get hurt...

Summation: Ben would take his normal 6 games to warm up, have a few fantastic games and a few shit games. The WR's still would be dropping balls and giving up on route running, Pouncey would still be snaping the ball high, the Oline would still be missing blocks and everyone else would still be hurt. Is Ben better than Mason, absolutely! Would our record be much better than it is, not so sure about that?

Edman
11-16-2019, 11:23 AM
your summation only get you so far. A shitty QB is still a shitty QB no matter how good your defense is.
that shit has to be able to make plays at key moments and Mason hasn’t done that once.
like a lot have said he’s got 6 games left to prove he’s a starter or a back up...and I’m going with the latter to date.

the sad thing is how good could this team be if Ben didn’t get hurt...

If Ben doesn’t get hurt, he’d be a marginally better Mason Rudolph.

Ben was quite horrible without AB going back to the Week 17 game against the Bengals. The problems continued in the New England opener, and he wasn’t good against Seattle.

AtlantaDan
11-16-2019, 11:24 AM
[/B]
Summation: Ben would take his normal 6 games to warm up, have a few fantastic games and a few shit games. The WR's still would be dropping balls and giving up on route running, Pouncey would still be snaping the ball high, the Oline would still be missing blocks and everyone else would still be hurt. Is Ben better than Mason, absolutely! Would our record be much better than it is, not so sure about that?

With Ben not having seen game action for almost a year by next training camp, will be interesting to see if Tomlin & Ben decide he needs more reps in exhibition games next August above the usual max of the first quarter in preseason week three.

With Mason hopefully getting six more regular season games to show what he has (or confirm what he apparently doesn't have) will not be the same pressing need to get reps for the #2 QB

tube517
11-16-2019, 11:27 AM
With Ben not having seen game action for almost a year by next training camp, will be interesting to see if Tomlin & Ben decide he needs more reps in exhibition games next August above the usual max of the first quarter in preseason week three.

With Mason hopefully getting six more regular season games to show what he has (or confirm what he apparently doesn't have) will not be the same pressing need to get reps for the #2 QB

More Duck!!! :chuckle:

Steeler-in-west
11-16-2019, 11:27 AM
I don’t get what his problem is. He’s got the height to see the field, studies the game, has accuracy - was known for it in college, his arm strength may not be the greatest but it doesn’t necessarily have to be as long as he stays within his range - whch should be enough most of the time

im beginning to think he’s having trouble thinking on the fly and making decisions at this level

Edman
11-16-2019, 11:37 AM
I don’t get what his problem is. He’s got the height to see the field, studies the game, has accuracy - was known for it in college, his arm strength may not be the greatest but it doesn’t necessarily have to be as long as he stays within his range - whch should be enough most of the time

im beginning to think he’s having trouble thinking on the fly and making decisions at this level

Mason is a perfectionist to a fault. He needs things to go absolutely perfect on offense, or nothing happens, instead of letting things happen to him. Several players and coaches have gone on record that Mason studies and works so hard that he barely gives himself any space to unwind and relax. It takes a mental toll on him and He’s working himself out of the league.

All of his issues right now are he’s way too much in his own head and is indecisive. He’s afraid of making a mistake. Resulting in a lot of badly thrown balls and bad ball placement. Guess what? He made several hundred mistakes. He got away with it because the Steelers were winning. Now they lost because of him.

The kid has shown a propensity of bouncing back. He had his first horrible game. The only thing he can do now is respond. If he comes out these next few games and shows the same issues, yeah, then it’s likely he’ll amount to nothing more than a backup.

Steeler-in-west
11-16-2019, 11:41 AM
Mason is a perfectionist to a fault. He needs things to go absolutely perfect on offense, or nothing happens.

All of his issues right now are he’s way too much in his own head and is indecisive. He’s afraid of making a mistake. Resulting in a lot of badly thrown balls and bad ball placement. Guess what? He made several hundred mistakes. He got away with it because the Steelers were winning. Now they lost because of him.

The kid has shown a propensity of bouncing back. He had his first horrible game. The only thing he can do now is respond. If he comes out these next few games and shows the same issues, yeah, then it’s likely he’ll amount to nothing more than a backup.

agreed, he could use a good QB coach too, do we have one?

AtlantaDan
11-16-2019, 11:49 AM
I don’t get what his problem is. He’s got the height to see the field, studies the game, has accuracy - was known for it in college, his arm strength may not be the greatest but it doesn’t necessarily have to be as long as he stays within his range - whch should be enough most of the time

im beginning to think he’s having trouble thinking on the fly and making decisions at this level

Lot easier throwing against Big 12 defenses and defenders - speed of the game and what is available from NFL defenses sorts out a lot of system QBs who had the physical and mental tools to succeed at the minor league (aka "college") level

Teams can screw up with someone graded out as a top of the first round pick (hello Mr. Trubisky) but there are reasons he lasted into the third round

Interesting to look back at this PFF video profile at the time Mason was drafted - general accuracy and arm strength for intermediate routes were the big downsides, which we have seen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B86TdoYuof0

Mojouw
11-16-2019, 12:04 PM
Lot easier throwing against Big 12 defenses and defenders - speed of the game and what is available from NFL defenses sorts out a lot of system QBs who had the physical and mental tools to succeed at the minor league (aka "college") level

Teams can screw up with someone graded out as a top of the first round pick (hello Mr. Trubisky) but there are reasons he lasted into the third round

Interesting to look back at this PFF video profile at the time Mason was drafted - general accuracy and arm strength for intermediate routes were the big downsides, which we have seen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B86TdoYuof0

Colbert and others have gone on record saying that evaluation of college spread QBs is really hard. Mason looked the part in college and many draft pundits thought his game would translate. Many did not. Steelers were wrong and that sucks, but it's a third round pick and now they know.

If he has to move his feet and make 2 reads, he can't function.

tube517
11-16-2019, 12:26 PM
https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018mrudolph.php

There were a few games in 2017 with examples of Rudolph struggling to throw into tight windows. His anticipation will have to improve for the pros, or he could be taking a lot of sacks from holding onto the ball too long. Routinely, Rudolph wouldn't pull the trigger on a throw until his receiver had long since gotten wide open rather than anticipating the play to get the ball out faster. The length of time Rudolphs holds the ball in the pocket is going to be a problem in the NFL, but in the Big XII and against other college teams, he could get away with it because he had all day to throw. There were plays where he got the ball out quickly with anticipatory throws, but he was inconsistent with that and has to quicken the process for the NFL.



Rudolph will need development as a pro. He will have to work on his accuracy and field vision, plus get used to playing under center and calling plays in the huddle. Going through progressions and reading the field can be problems for Rudolph, and he has to improve there. He is going to see a big jump in competition from the Big XII defenses, which posed little challenge to Rudolph and the Cowboys. He had plenty of time to wait in a clean pocket to throw on weak defensive backs who his receivers burned regularly. Rudolph hasn't seen anything close to the pass rush or defensive back talent that will challenge him in the NFL.

Edman
11-16-2019, 02:00 PM
https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018mrudolph.php

There were a few games in 2017 with examples of Rudolph struggling to throw into tight windows. His anticipation will have to improve for the pros, or he could be taking a lot of sacks from holding onto the ball too long. Routinely, Rudolph wouldn't pull the trigger on a throw until his receiver had long since gotten wide open rather than anticipating the play to get the ball out faster. The length of time Rudolphs holds the ball in the pocket is going to be a problem in the NFL, but in the Big XII and against other college teams, he could get away with it because he had all day to throw. There were plays where he got the ball out quickly with anticipatory throws, but he was inconsistent with that and has to quicken the process for the NFL.



Rudolph will need development as a pro. He will have to work on his accuracy and field vision, plus get used to playing under center and calling plays in the huddle. Going through progressions and reading the field can be problems for Rudolph, and he has to improve there. He is going to see a big jump in competition from the Big XII defenses, which posed little challenge to Rudolph and the Cowboys. He had plenty of time to wait in a clean pocket to throw on weak defensive backs who his receivers burned regularly. Rudolph hasn't seen anything close to the pass rush or defensive back talent that will challenge him in the NFL.

Unfortunately for the Steelers right now, Mason doesn’t have the luxury of learning or developing from the bench. He has to learn and develop on his own, and quickly. In the offseason, Mason had to go out and work with a Throwing guru to work on his throwing motion.

It’s the epitome of trial by fire for the guy. As one poster succinctly put it, Mason is doing on-Job training, with all of the glaring hiccups that come with it.

Look at all the NFL coaching staffs in the league and you’ll notice that most of them have a quarterbacks coach. They also happen to have young quarterbacks. Ben benefitted mightily from having Mark Whipple back in 2004.

It’s a poor foundation, and once again it all goes back on the coaching staff for crutching on Ben and doing a poor job preparing for a life without him. They drafted two young QB’s in Dobbs and Rudolph, but didn’t figure to bring in a dedicated QB coach to help them out and work out the kinks. Now Fichtner has to do double work working with Rudy and the rest of the offense.

Mojouw
11-16-2019, 03:40 PM
No amount of coaching is fixing Rudoplph. The team still screwed the pooch on the QB coach stuff. But let's not start the myth that only because of the lack of a QB coach Mason R didn't succeed.

Steeler-in-west
11-16-2019, 04:13 PM
Pretty sure Rudolph has the rest of the season to bounce back from a bad game and show what he can do. Barring injury Steelers are not going to Hodges and pretty sure they’re not going to coax Farve out of retirement

To be fair Rudolph has looked good at times, had a bad game, but may improve against less than stellar defenses

he also doesn’t have much help from the receiving corps, I’m sure Steelers are taking that into account

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-16-2019, 04:20 PM
I seen enough of him now to know he doesn't have it. He has no pocket awareness and can't hear the foot steps so to speak or just blocks them out. Hesitates to much and holds on to the ball to long for a NFL QB. My prediction is he may have a okay game here and there if the offense line gives him all day to throw. Most games though he will take a lot of sacks and have fumbles and likely to get his bell rang again and miss another game or two.

86WARD
11-16-2019, 04:31 PM
If JuJu and DJ aren’t available next Sunday, they’ll lose to the Bengals.

86WARD
11-16-2019, 04:34 PM
The way this offense is going, the way the line is blocking, Josh Dobbs is a better fit right now. He can at least get out of the pocket and maybe scramble or get the pocket moving.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-16-2019, 06:10 PM
The way this offense is going, the way the line is blocking, Josh Dobbs is a better fit right now. He can at least get out of the pocket and maybe scramble or get the pocket moving.Duck would be even better and moves out of the pocket. Mason is a statue and the Kent Graham comparison hold water.

NCSteeler
11-16-2019, 07:43 PM
I agree with Craic. With O'Donnell this team can win a playoff game. Same thing with Stewart, though his problems with turnovers could sink us quick.

The NFL.com has their own QB ranking poll. While I disagree with Jackson's spot, they put Rudolph 29th of 32. He's ahead of a rookie hasn't take a snap ( Finley ) , another rookie who's playing really bad ( Haskins ) and an NFL bust ( Trubisky ) who probably won't be starting for much longer. Doesn't that speak to what I'm saying? And I'd point out both rookies are on bad NFL teams. Rudolph is not.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001074192/article/qb-index-week-10-lamar-jackson-vaults-aaron-rodgersI'd only counter argue that I think Rudolph is on a bad team. This offense is putrid with or without Mason

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JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-17-2019, 12:47 AM
I'd only counter argue that I think Rudolph is on a bad team. This offense is putrid with or without Mason

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk Specially now and no wr's to throw to. Doesn't matter and keep Mason in there.

Craic
11-17-2019, 12:48 AM
I'd only counter argue that I think Rudolph is on a bad team. This offense is putrid with or without Mason

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The drops aren't helping and the run game stutters. But there are two main problems right now. One is injuries. The other is the QB. Until teams respect him and stop putting so many guys in the box, you'll keep seeing a horrible run game and blitzes every other play.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-17-2019, 12:53 AM
The drops aren't helping and the run game stutters. But there are two main problems right now. One is injuries. The other is the QB. Until teams respect him and stop putting so many guys in the box, you'll keep seeing a horrible run game and blitzes every other play. True and our starting rb can never stay healthy as well. RB should be a priority early next draft!

Mojouw
11-17-2019, 12:45 PM
Watching Driskel run the Lions. Says something that I'm wishing he played for the Steelers. Sad part is that Driskel isn't any good.


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NCSteeler
11-17-2019, 01:25 PM
Watching Driskel run the Lions. Says something that I'm wishing he played for the Steelers. Sad part is that Driskel isn't any good.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLandry who? Haha. I'm a broken record but I still think he could be better with a coach. His feet and body control just don't look good. BUT he still doesn't seem to have the Wow factor you're looking for in your next starting QB

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86WARD
11-18-2019, 05:32 AM
The sad part about this is it’s buying certain coaches on the staff more years...

teegre
11-18-2019, 06:51 AM
Ben has an awful, four-interception game in 2017 (two were pick-sixes)... and that was with Bell and AB.

Everyone remembers the 2008 Eagles fiasco. The pocket collapsed around Ben... and he played like complete dog crap (4 INTs).

I am NOT comparing Rudolph to Ben. Don’t tangent that way. My point is that “4 INT” games happen to even the best QBs.

AtlantaDan
11-18-2019, 07:49 AM
Watching Driskel run the Lions. Says something that I'm wishing he played for the Steelers. Sad part is that Driskel isn't any good.


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Could be worse - imagine being a Bears fan and knowing your team traded up to grab Trubisky with Mahomes and Watson available

Of course here was the hot take on the Chiefs drafting Mahomes

Grade: C-

Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/2017-nfl-draft-grades-picks-analysis-result (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/2017-nfl-draft-grades-picks-analysis-results)

Drafting a QB is rolling dice - Steelers took a gamble by burning a third round pick and looks like they lost

SteelersNorth
11-18-2019, 08:34 AM
Ben has an awful, four-interception game in 2017 (two were pick-sixes)... and that was with Bell and AB.

Everyone remembers the 2008 Eagles fiasco. The pocket collapsed around Ben... and he played like complete dog crap (4 INTs).

I am NOT comparing Rudolph to Ben. Don’t tangent that way. My point is that “4 INT” games happen to even the best QBs.

2008 vs the Eagles he got sacked 8 times.
Only thrown 4 or more picks 3 times in a game in his career
2006 @ Oakland
2008 vs Giants (also the game where Harrison played long snapper lol)
2016 vs Jaguars (career high 5)

But agreed even the best QBs can look like A$$ on any given Sunday...

Six Rings
11-18-2019, 05:00 PM
The Rudolph experiment is over, he's a back up at best, and without an excess of turnovers, or a defensive score struggles to win games.

It might be time to start Duck.

Fire Goodell
11-18-2019, 05:09 PM
The Rudolph experiment is over, he's a back up at best, and without an excess of turnovers, or a defensive score struggles to win games.

It might be time to start Duck.

I think the coaches will allow him a chance to bounce back, but a repeat performance like last thursday and you might get your wish

86WARD
11-18-2019, 05:37 PM
Terry Bradshaw wasn’t any star when he first started...just saying...

Mojouw
11-18-2019, 05:46 PM
Could be worse - imagine being a Bears fan and knowing your team traded up to grab Trubisky with Mahomes and Watson available

Of course here was the hot take on the Chiefs drafting Mahomes

Grade: C-

Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/2017-nfl-draft-grades-picks-analysis-result (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/2017-nfl-draft-grades-picks-analysis-results)

Drafting a QB is rolling dice - Steelers took a gamble by burning a third round pick and looks like they lost

Agreed. I'm not really going to try and retroactively grade the pick. It was a good idea at the time and may still bear fruit.

He just looks so over-matched and lost on the football field. Hard to imagine a scenario where he turns this around and develops into the next great draft story. But stranger things and all that.

Also, Hodges is a cool story and all, but yeah....no. I would rather see Paxton Lynch get booted up than Hodges.

Steeler-in-west
11-18-2019, 08:03 PM
I think the coaches will allow him a chance to bounce back, but a repeat performance like last thursday and you might get your wish

but replace him with whom? Hodges? Probably more of the same,

maybe give Paxton a shot,

I suppose if Rudolph plays like crap again and they lose to the bengals there’s nothing left to lose at that point.

DesertSteel
11-18-2019, 08:06 PM
but replace him with whom? Hodges? Probably more of the same,

maybe give Paxton a shot,

I suppose if Rudolph plays like crap again and they lose to the bengals there’s nothing left to lose at that point.
In that scenario I’d rather see Paxton.

SteelersNorth
11-19-2019, 06:40 AM
Agreed. I'm not really going to try and retroactively grade the pick. It was a good idea at the time and may still bear fruit.

He just looks so over-matched and lost on the football field. Hard to imagine a scenario where he turns this around and develops into the next great draft story. But stranger things and all that.

Also, Hodges is a cool story and all, but yeah....no. I would rather see Paxton Lynch get booted up than Hodges.

I think you can grade it.
But for me the biggest issue overall (which I've said multiple times) is how the Steelers have said or tons of sources have said they had that 1st rd grade on Rudolph.
Again, I agree it's still a crap shoot with QBs, I mean look at guys coming up on renewals, Mariota & Winston...guys that have been traded like Tannehill, Rosen after being picked high.
Then not super recent but recent enough you find those diamonds in the rough but they perform right away and earn that spot like Wilson and Dak.

Sure the comparison is bad BUT no one knew what we had with Ben when he was drafted.
I've read the initial plan was for him to sit for 2 years behind BOTH Tommy and Chuck. He became the #2 because Chuck got injured in preseason.
He came in and showed some great flashes in that first game in Baltimore. Did 'okay' in Miami during the hurricane, did okay again the next 2 games against the Bengals & Browns and then did amazing against Dallas & Pats and that was when it was 'how do you ever go back to Maddox'.

Currently with Mason and this is pure observation, I've seen zero hope. Which I agree with your 2nd comment in that aspect.
To me you either have 'IT' or you don't. Doesn't matter if you're a rocket scientist like Dobbs, can you execute and show no fear on the field, so far he can't.
So for me that's what separates guys its beyond the smarts (although you do have to have it cause you can't be a dumb as a post like Vince Young lol)

Is there still time for Mason to look like a something sure.
As it stands here today in my opinion he's backup and a marginal one at that...

Fire Goodell
11-19-2019, 10:40 AM
Ben looked great but he also had teammates who could make the plays for him. Mason doesn't have that. If you compare their WRs, Mason has Juju and 2 first round starters, and some bums who should be on the practice squad. None of them have been really helping him out, Juju included. Pair that with the fact their #1 rusher is always injured.

Meanwhile Ben had: Bettis (Hall of famer), Staley, Burress, Ward, Randle El. A HoF running back and a stable of proven veteran playmakers at WR. Not to mention backed up by the #1 defense. Mason has NOTHING close to that. Ben was given the keys to a Ferrari, Mason inherited a 1971 Pinto

SteelersNorth
11-19-2019, 01:57 PM
Ben looked great but he also had teammates who could make the plays for him. Mason doesn't have that. If you compare their WRs, Mason has Juju and 2 first round starters, and some bums who should be on the practice squad. None of them have been really helping him out, Juju included. Pair that with the fact their #1 rusher is always injured.

Meanwhile Ben had: Bettis (Hall of famer), Staley, Burress, Ward, Randle El. A HoF running back and a stable of proven veteran playmakers at WR. Not to mention backed up by the #1 defense. Mason has NOTHING close to that. Ben was given the keys to a Ferrari, Mason inherited a 1971 Pinto

Staley wasn't exactly 'amazing' he was supposed to be the big acquisition that year but got hurt in 2004 and 5.
Sure Ben had those guys but none were amazing except for ward...plax stretched the field like wallace did when he came and RE was like JuJu is now the perfect slot guy
But the summation between all the receivers Ben has had with the exception of Plax is he got them all paid
RE went to the skins and got paid handsomly although I think that's because he was that dual threat with the kicking game too but still
Wallace to miami got grossly overpaid and has been through half the league since
Brown got paid 3 years early because he showed what he could do because of Ben and then got paid twice more because of Ben
JuJu will have the same fate if Ben comes back and they tear it up

As for having a solid RB1 yeah that helps. But it's not a requirement it just how you use them and a lot has to do with screens or moving them around now a days.
And calling a run at the right moment.
Right now the Steelers seem to be run, run, pass on 3rd and a country mile and hope for the best.
Does a lot have to do with the OC yeah probably, but in saying that it might also be because Rudolph is limited and they didn't expect that.

Like I've said previously certain guys have that 'IT' factor Ben has 'IT'
Mason might but 'IT' might not show up for another few years who knows....

Fire Goodell
11-19-2019, 03:52 PM
Staley wasn't exactly 'amazing' he was supposed to be the big acquisition that year but got hurt in 2004 and 5.
Sure Ben had those guys but none were amazing except for ward...plax stretched the field like wallace did when he came and RE was like JuJu is now the perfect slot guy
But the summation between all the receivers Ben has had with the exception of Plax is he got them all paid
RE went to the skins and got paid handsomly although I think that's because he was that dual threat with the kicking game too but still
Wallace to miami got grossly overpaid and has been through half the league since
Brown got paid 3 years early because he showed what he could do because of Ben and then got paid twice more because of Ben
JuJu will have the same fate if Ben comes back and they tear it up

As for having a solid RB1 yeah that helps. But it's not a requirement it just how you use them and a lot has to do with screens or moving them around now a days.
And calling a run at the right moment.
Right now the Steelers seem to be run, run, pass on 3rd and a country mile and hope for the best.
Does a lot have to do with the OC yeah probably, but in saying that it might also be because Rudolph is limited and they didn't expect that.

Like I've said previously certain guys have that 'IT' factor Ben has 'IT'
Mason might but 'IT' might not show up for another few years who knows....

Those receivers weren't 'great' with the exception of Ward and Plax was the guy who blew the top off. Which is hell of a lot more than we have now. It does help that every single one of his receivers are veterans who knew where to be and how to help their QB. Mason has no guys like this, NONE. Not even the guy who was expected to have his breakout year (Juju) has amounted to anything, and also fumbled and dropped balls in crucial situations. Ben had a legitimate WR1 WR2 and WR3. Mason has a couple of WR2's, a WR3 and a bunch of practice squad rookies who under normal circumstances would be bagging groceries instead.

Edman
11-19-2019, 04:35 PM
We've all seen how much Ben struggled without Antonio Brown this year.

Even before the injuries, Our receiving core, envy of the league for many years, is now bottom of the barrel. The veteran guy who was supposed to step in (Moncrief), was so awful hes no longer on the team.

Six Rings
11-19-2019, 06:41 PM
I'm string to wonder if Rudolph has a likable personality. Without turnovers to set the offense up with a short field or a pick six, or offense can't seem to score touchdown's with Rudolph. The season is not over yet. If Rudloph struggles again, give me Hodges.

AtlantaDan
11-19-2019, 07:31 PM
I'm string to wonder if Rudolph has a likable personality. Without turnovers to set the offense up with a short field or a pick six, or offense can't seem to score touchdown's with Rudolph. The season is not over yet. If Rudloph struggles again, give me Hodges.

By all accounts Rudolph is well liked by his teammates and studies hard - just has not been able to raise his game (at least so far) to what it takes to be a successful NFL level starting QB both physically and mentally

DesertSteel
11-19-2019, 08:29 PM
I'm string to wonder if Rudolph has a likable personality. Without turnovers to set the offense up with a short field or a pick six, or offense can't seem to score touchdown's with Rudolph. The season is not over yet. If Rudloph struggles again, give me Hodges.
What the heck does personality got to do with touchdowns?!

AtlantaDan
11-19-2019, 09:27 PM
What the heck does personality got to do with touchdowns?!

If you are good, nothing

If you are not, being difficult can get a young QB cut loose more quickly (e.g. - Josh Rosen)

SteelersNorth
11-20-2019, 06:46 AM
Those receivers weren't 'great' with the exception of Ward and Plax was the guy who blew the top off. Which is hell of a lot more than we have now. It does help that every single one of his receivers are veterans who knew where to be and how to help their QB. Mason has no guys like this, NONE. Not even the guy who was expected to have his breakout year (Juju) has amounted to anything, and also fumbled and dropped balls in crucial situations. Ben had a legitimate WR1 WR2 and WR3. Mason has a couple of WR2's, a WR3 and a bunch of practice squad rookies who under normal circumstances would be bagging groceries instead.

That made me laugh pretty hard because I think that about most athletes.

DesertSteel
11-20-2019, 02:47 PM
If you are good, nothing

If you are not, being difficult can get a young QB cut loose more quickly (e.g. - Josh Rosen)
I don’t think that had anything to do with Rosen being traded. Kingsbury wanted Kyler. It was a good pick. But I’m not sold on the coach.

Steeler-in-west
11-21-2019, 09:48 PM
If your a starting nfl qb, you should be able to find and hit an open receiver an overwhelming majority of the time. Regardless if we have AB out there or James Washington or Holton,

if mason can’t get the offense moving, we should put someone in there who can, don’t want to see the efforts of the defense wasted.