Bud Dupree No Longer Terrible

[Mojouw]

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/10/film-room-bud-dupree-turning-in-a-career-year/

I can't wait to see where this thread goes. But Dupree is on pace for 9 sacks, 12 tackles for loss and 15 QB hits. All career highs.

A similar season from Za'Darius Smith in 2018 got him all of the money this off-season.

[Fire Goodell]

He wasn't bad last year either. He's a solid player, maybe not pro bowl bound, but solid. I don't think he deserves the hate he has coming his way, though the 5th year option is a slight overpay. However, it was the right move. Chickillo isn't starter quality, and it'll take another year for Ola to be ready IMO.

[Dwinsgames]

well imagine that .... in a contract year ...

money is his motivator ....

hard pass moving forward

[Born2Steel]

Dupree’s strength has always been vs he run. Which he has been way above average at for his career IMO when seen with context. If he does indeed put up those numbers this season and continues playing the run strong too he will definitely price himself out of a 2nd contract with the Steelers. Hope Ola deserves the love he gets.

[pczach]

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/10/film-room-bud-dupree-turning-in-a-career-year/

I can't wait to see where this thread goes. But Dupree is on pace for 9 sacks, 12 tackles for loss and 15 QB hits. All career highs.

A similar season from Za'Darius Smith in 2018 got him all of the money this off-season.



https://media.giphy.com/media/joV1k1sNOT5xC/giphy.gif

[steelreserve]

I think I said about a year and a half ago, when we first made the terrible decision to pick up the option, that using the fifth-year option is stupid anyway, except as a means to extend your negotiating period with a player you know you want to keep.

If you are not sure about him yet after 4 years, there are only two things that can happen. Either he has a good season and forces a HUGE contract, but you're still not sure if his one decent season was a fluke (aka the Jason DongWorilds scenario) ... or he plays so poorly that you don't want to re-sign him, so all you did was massively overpay a shitty player for a year.

I am not surprised Dupree is putting up ok numbers. Look at how Watt and the others are doing, especially Watt. When Dong Dupree has other people drawing all the attention away from him, he dongs his way to some ok numbers. He does not create much impact on his own, he is just not a top-tier playmaker or even much of a playmaker at all, and that does not look like it's changed a bit.

[DesertSteel]

well imagine that .... in a contract year ...

money is his motivator ....

hard pass moving forward

Agree 110%

[Rotorhead]

Dupree’s strength has always been vs he run. Which he has been way above average at for his career IMO when seen with context. If he does indeed put up those numbers this season and continues playing the run strong too he will definitely price himself out of a 2nd contract with the Steelers. Hope Ola deserves the love he gets.

Wrong, he was a HUGE reason for our loss to Jax in the playoffs a few years ago. He failed to ever set the edge and Jax ran that way more times than not because of it. Not saying he isn’t improving, but he hasn’t always been good at anything honestly.

[Butch]

If I recall correctly they recently (maybe last year) moved him to the other side of the line. That move seems to have made a difference in his play. Yes he still makes a few over runs but seems he is getting things down much better. I hope he is the answer because I really don't want to have to find his replacement and hope that works out for us. I also think we have bigger needs TEs and WRs that need to be filled.

[FrancoLambert]

Correct. His inspired play this year raises his overall cumulative play to lousy.
Let him play for his big contract with another team.

[st33lersguy]

So he conveniently has a career year in a contract year and he is merely adequate. Hmm

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

If I recall correctly they recently (maybe last year) moved him to the other side of the line. That move seems to have made a difference in his play. Yes he still makes a few over runs but seems he is getting things down much better. I hope he is the answer because I really don't want to have to find his replacement and hope that works out for us. I also think we have bigger needs TEs and WRs that need to be filled. Was just going to say about moving him made a difference and even more so for Watt. Watt was a beast from the left in college.

[steelreserve]

If I recall correctly they recently (maybe last year) moved him to the other side of the line. That move seems to have made a difference in his play. Yes he still makes a few over runs but seems he is getting things down much better. I hope he is the answer because I really don't want to have to find his replacement and hope that works out for us. I also think we have bigger needs TEs and WRs that need to be filled.

What else happened when Dupree started to make his (modest) improvements?

I'll give you a hint - some other guy joined the team and people started being afraid of him instead, and leaving Dupree alone. Can't remember the guy's name ... Larry Watt, or J.J. Lott, or something like that.

But even with that guy around, Dupree is only ok. Seems like anyone who is not completely incompetent will probably do all right when all the blockers are worrying about J.J. Lott.

[Craic]

What else happened when Dupree started to make his (modest) improvements?

I'll give you a hint - some other guy joined the team and people started being afraid of him instead, and leaving Dupree alone. Can't remember the guy's name ... Larry Watt, or J.J. Lott, or something like that.

But even with that guy around, Dupree is only ok. Seems like anyone who is not completely incompetent will probably do all right when all the blockers are worrying about J.J. Lott.

Well, that and they started scheming to his strengths finally rather than trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Personally, I think Dupree's ceiling is slightly above an average NFL player. And, I don't know if he'll ever hit it. But, that being said, forcing him to play outside of his strengths is not a smart idea. (there was a big discussion about that this summer in camp, if I remember correctly, how they were rescheming his position. Several of the radio personalities around the team were saying to be ready for him this year).

[Lamberts_Lunatic]

he dongs his way to some ok numbers. .

DongSack!

Hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

[Mojouw]

Sometimes it seems that they are doing some interesting things schematically with Dupree. He plays that short hook zone against RBs and TEs fairly well. Allows them to bring other defenders on the rush. Ola and Chickillo cant provide that. He was also the “spy” defender against Jackson a few times. Again, something not every other OLB can do.

Sunday night is an interesting benchmark. Most of the guys the Chargers role out at OLB besides Ingram and if they slide Bosa out there, are the definition of “just a random guy”.

Also it will be interesting to see what happens with the Broncos opposite Von Miller. Another situation where there is a test case for anyone can come in and succeed in a good system with other good players.

Is any of this enough to resign Dupree to a massive deal? Prolly not. But 10-12 million per wouldn’t make me cry. Especially if they structured it so that it hit the books in a friendly way. The entire thing hinges on Ola proving he can play in space AND rush the passer against NFL starters. Really hope he passes Chick on the depth chart and gets enough snaps to accurately make that evaluation.

To be clear, if the team could sign either Dupree or Hargrave, all in on Hargrave with out a second glance at Dupree. I suspect Hargrave bolts.

BUT — what about a 32 year old Von Miller getting lured out of Denver with the chance for one last playoff run?

[Craic]

Sometimes it seems that they are doing some interesting things schematically with Dupree. He plays that short hook zone against RBs and TEs fairly well. Allows them to bring other defenders on the rush. Ola and Chickillo cant provide that. He was also the “spy” defender against Jackson a few times. Again, something not every other OLB can do.

Sunday night is an interesting benchmark. Most of the guys the Chargers role out at OLB besides Ingram and if they slide Bosa out there, are the definition of “just a random guy”.

Also it will be interesting to see what happens with the Broncos opposite Von Miller. Another situation where there is a test case for anyone can come in and succeed in a good system with other good players.

Is any of this enough to resign Dupree to a massive deal? Prolly not. But 10-12 million per wouldn’t make me cry. Especially if they structured it so that it hit the books in a friendly way. The entire thing hinges on Ola proving he can play in space AND rush the passer against NFL starters. Really hope he passes Chick on the depth chart and gets enough snaps to accurately make that evaluation.

I think a new deal for Dupree will depend on three things.



How he plays all season long (obviously).
His desire to remain a Steeler (obviously).
The development of our Safeties, QBs, and WRs (not so obvious).


Why the third? We have to draft replacements. If one of these QBs progresses to the point where we are comfortable with him being the starter, it'll free up a high draft pick. If our safeties step up this year and continue to play well, we won't have to worry about restocking that position. The one that concerns me right now is WR. We may have to spend a draft pick there. But, the less we have to fill holes in other places, the more expendable Dupree will be. The more we have to worry about drafting in other positions, the more likely Dupree remains a Steeler with a bit of an oversized contract.

[Born2Steel]

Wrong, he was a HUGE reason for our loss to Jax in the playoffs a few years ago. He failed to ever set the edge and Jax ran that way more times than not because of it. Not saying he isn’t improving, but he hasn’t always been good at anything honestly.

Yes he will struggle vs some players. All players do.

[Shoes]

This team needs a strong pass rusher opposite of watt and it isn’t Bud. No dong contract.He wasn’t worthy of a R1 pick and he surely doesn’t deserve a big contract like he is one.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

This team needs a strong pass rusher opposite of watt and it isn’t Bud. No dong contract.He wasn’t worthy of a R1 pick and he surely doesn’t deserve a big contract like he is one. I want a upgrade but he is decent for this season. Can't address everything and Steelers may need to use high picks on OL and even RB next season.

[Shoes]

Sometimes it seems that they are doing some interesting things schematically with Dupree. He plays that short hook zone against RBs and TEs fairly well. Allows them to bring other defenders on the rush. Ola and Chickillo cant provide that. He was also the “spy” defender against Jackson a few times. Again, something not every other OLB can do.

Sunday night is an interesting benchmark. Most of the guys the Chargers role out at OLB besides Ingram and if they slide Bosa out there, are the definition of “just a random guy”.

Also it will be interesting to see what happens with the Broncos opposite Von Miller. Another situation where there is a test case for anyone can come in and succeed in a good system with other good players.

Is any of this enough to resign Dupree to a massive deal? Prolly not. But 10-12 million per wouldn’t make me cry. Especially if they structured it so that it hit the books in a friendly way. The entire thing hinges on Ola proving he can play in space AND rush the passer against NFL starters. Really hope he passes Chick on the depth chart and gets enough snaps to accurately make that evaluation.

To be clear, if the team could sign either Dupree or Hargrave, all in on Hargrave with out a second glance at Dupree. I suspect Hargrave bolts.

BUT — what about a 32 year old Von Miller getting lured out of Denver with the chance for one last playoff run?


I would pay hargrave in a second over bud. Dupree is going to want 1st round money without 1st round results. I’d kick the tires on miller. I mean if he doesn’t have any major injury issues, why not. Watt & Miller would be sweet.

[Craic]

I want a upgrade but he is decent for this season. Can't address everything . . .

Bingo.

[teegre]

In 114 snaps (which is equivalent to starting two games), Chase Winovich has 5 sacks.

I would have gladly traded away the picks used on Justin Layne, Benny Snell, and Zach Gentry in order to have acquired Winovich.

[86WARD]

Not to mention he’s been more than solid in run support...

[teegre]

Not to mention he’s been more than solid in run support...

There was a running play against the Ravens where Marshall Yanda (no slouch) was pulling. Dupree threw Yanda aside and made the TFL.

[Fire Goodell]

Devin Bush is the new Kong of Dong.

Had a dong fumble recovery where the QB passed backwards and the receiver dripped it, and a dong INT that was the result of a deflection. And that ponytail looks like a giant dong flapping around :chuckle:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Devin Bush is the new Kong of Dong.

Had a dong fumble recovery where the QB passed backwards and the receiver dripped it, and a dong INT that was the result of a deflection. And that ponytail looks like a giant dong flapping around :chuckle:

That may be true. But, did either Vince Williams or the other veteran Steeler pick up that backward pass? Kind of looked like Bush was the 3rd guy there and his hustle and awareness lead to picking up that fumble and the TD.

Dong is OLB's beating TE's and RB's for a sack. Being opportunistic because you are always around the football like Devin Bush, doesn't rate in the dong category IMO.

[Fire Goodell]

That may be true. But, did either Vince Williams or the other veteran Steeler pick up that backward pass? Kind of looked like Bush was the 3rd guy there and his hustle and awareness lead to picking up that fumble and the TD.

Dong is OLB's beating TE's and RB's for a sack. Being opportunistic because you are always around the football like Devin Bush, doesn't rate in the dong category IMO.

I know, I'm just channeling my inner StillMill :chuckle:

In all seriousness, there's no such thing as dong plays, production is production

[Steeldude]

I know, I'm just channeling my inner StillMill :chuckle:

In all seriousness, there's no such thing as dong plays, production is production

No, there are dong plays.

[steelreserve]

That may be true. But, did either Vince Williams or the other veteran Steeler pick up that backward pass? Kind of looked like Bush was the 3rd guy there and his hustle and awareness lead to picking up that fumble and the TD.

Dong is OLB's beating TE's and RB's for a sack. Being opportunistic because you are always around the football like Devin Bush, doesn't rate in the dong category IMO.

Dong isn't even that. It's not even really beating the TE or RB, but there's pressure from other guys, and the play kind of moves toward you, and you get the sack or tackle for a loss anyway. Or maybe you "beat" the TE or the RB by the opponent miscommunicating and leaving you totally unblocked or pushing you into the play. The kind of thing that happens a few times a game, and if it's your guy, then lucky you.

[Steeldude]

Dong isn't even that. It's not even really beating the TE or RB, but there's pressure from other guys, and the play kind of moves toward you, and you get the sack or tackle for a loss anyway. Or maybe you "beat" the TE or the RB by the opponent miscommunicating and leaving you totally unblocked or pushing you into the play. The kind of thing that happens a few times a game, and if it's your guy, then lucky you.

A dong sack to me is unblocked, the blocker falls over or a coverage sack. Basically, it's a sack any average high school athlete(that includes golfers) could make. These are really the only way Dupree gets a sack. When Dupree does get a "sack" the Dupree Choir Boys jump up and down claiming he is the next LT. They will have to wait about 18 quarters to jump up and down again.

[Iron Steeler]

I say we sell high!

Trade Bud Dupree for Stefon Diggs and some picks. And upgrade Ola as a starter.

He is lackadaisical , he is finally playing with a motor because it benefits him the most in a contract year. Once he gets paid, he will go back to taking it easy. Also there is no sure thing that we will be able to afford his contract requests if he has a knock out year.

[86WARD]

I say we sell high!

Trade Bud Dupree for Stefon Diggs and some picks. And upgrade Ola as a starter.

He is lackadaisical , he is finally playing with a motor because it benefits him the most in a contract year. Once he gets paid, he will go back to taking it easy. Also there is no sure thing that we will be able to afford his contract requests if he has a knock out year.

Lol. I’d do that in a second.

[Fire Goodell]

No, there are dong plays.

I honestly think INT's should be handled like sacks. For instance if an INT was the result of a batted or deflected pass, the guy who batted the pass should be credited with half an INT. Bush might get that INT on the stat sheet, but Alualu was the one who made it happen.

[steelreserve]

I honestly think INT's should be handled like sacks. For instance if an INT was the result of a batted or deflected pass, the guy who batted the pass should be credited with half an INT. Bush might get that INT on the stat sheet, but Alualu was the one who made it happen.

If you're going to keep track of batted balls, no one in the league would come close to Tom Brady.

Oh, snap! Take that, Buttbrady!

[JayC]

well imagine that .... in a contract year ...

money is his motivator ....

hard pass moving forward

yep, thanks for trying this year but no thank you

[HollywoodSteel]

A dong sack to me is unblocked, the blocker falls over or a coverage sack. Basically, it's a sack any average high school athlete(that includes golfers) could make. These are really the only way Dupree gets a sack. When Dupree does get a "sack" the Dupree Choir Boys jump up and down claiming he is the next LT. They will have to wait about 18 quarters to jump up and down again.

I’m not putting him in the HOF, but can we just objectively call good plays, good plays? Not everything he does is “dong”

This is a great football play splash play in a crucial time that might have really affected the flow of the game.

https://youtu.be/JTJ6_wk4OZM

[Steeldude]

I’m not putting him in the HOF, but can we just objectively call good plays, good plays? Not everything he does is “dong”

This is a great football play splash play in a crucial time that might have really affected the flow of the game.

https://youtu.be/JTJ6_wk4OZM

Yes, a great play, but that's rare for Dupree. Putting forth effort is difficult for Dupree also. I do not want to see Dupree in a Steeler uniform next year.

[steelreserve]

I’m not putting him in the HOF, but can we just objectively call good plays, good plays? Not everything he does is “dong”

You know what Bud Dupree does every day? Bud Dupree dongs out of bed in the morning and dongs his teeth, then dongs down some cereal and toast.

Then he dongs TV for a while before he dongs down to the gym, then on the way home he stops at the store and dongs some groceries. Then for lunch he dongs himself a sandwich, then plays with his dong - er, dog - before he dongs over to his friend's house, where they dong a pizza to eat while they dong a movie.

Finally, he goes home and dongs a beer, and then dongs some video games for an hour or two before he dongs off to sleep. All night, he dreams about dongs.

Maybe not EVERYTHING he does is dong, but it's damn close.

[86WARD]

Lol...who has the exact definition of the dong sack?

[Blast Furnace]

It has taken him 5 years just to get to this point! His total upside isn't much higher and the Steelers should expect to do better. they need to evaluate Ola in preparation for next year (the draft and season). If Ola can handle the job just fine, then a top 2 round draft pick for OLB won't be necessary (most likely round 1).

[HollywoodSteel]

It has taken him 5 years just to get to this point! His total upside isn't much higher and the Steelers should expect to do better. they need to evaluate Ola in preparation for next year (the draft and season). If Ola can handle the job just fine, then a top 2 round draft pick for OLB won't be necessary (most likely round 1).

Well, we don’t have a first round pick next year so we’d better hope Ola is the man to replace Bud.

I think it’s interesting how polarizing Bud is around here. I’m in the camp where I think he is good and only getting better, but I understand that he’ll probably be offered more money elsewhere.

I have a feeling that if Dupree goes on to have a great career for another team, I don’t think it will upset the Bud haters one bit, because my intuition tells me that there is a strong crossover between Bud haters and Butler haters. So Dupree’s success elsewhere won’t prove that we should have kept him, it will prove that Butler just didn’t know how to coach him.
:)

[HollywoodSteel]

Lol...who has the exact definition of the dong sack?


I’ve never seen the exact definition. But in general I think it means an unearned sack, or one that anyone could have gotten by just being in the right place at the right time.

This might help:

http://www.stillers.com/Article/View/6535c01a-a718-44d1-82e8-accd9a9d75cd

[Fire Goodell]

I’ve never seen the exact definition. But in general I think it means an unearned sack, or one that anyone could have gotten by just being in the right place at the right time.

This might help:

http://www.stillers.com/Article/View/6535c01a-a718-44d1-82e8-accd9a9d75cd

http://www.stillers.com/Article/View/c8d83695-7954-41a6-9288-d298169147be

:chuckle:

[HollywoodSteel]

http://www.stillers.com/Article/View/c8d83695-7954-41a6-9288-d298169147be

:chuckle:

Yeah, as much criticism as Bud Dupree gets (most of it reasonable) it’s nothing compared to the hate Jason Gildon got from some people. Man, you’d think he was worse than Jarvis Jones.

[Mojouw]

Well, we don’t have a first round pick next year so we’d better hope Ola is the man to replace Bud.

I think it’s interesting how polarizing Bud is around here. I’m in the camp where I think he is good and only getting better, but I understand that he’ll probably be offered more money elsewhere.

I have a feeling that if Dupree goes on to have a great career for another team, I don’t think it will upset the Bud haters one bit, because my intuition tells me that there is a strong crossover between Bud haters and Butler haters. So Dupree’s success elsewhere won’t prove that we should have kept him, it will prove that Butler just didn’t know how to coach him.
:)

I love this. What if Butler leaves and coaches somewhere else and Dupree signs for the same team and gets 22 sacks?

I suspect that it is a plot by AB and Robert Kraft.

[Steeldude]

Yeah, as much criticism as Bud Dupree gets (most of it reasonable) it’s nothing compared to the hate Jason Gildon got from some people. Man, you’d think he was worse than Jarvis Jones.

Gildon was very overrated. The Steelers seriously needed to upgrade.

- - - Updated - - -


Lol...who has the exact definition of the dong sack?

Anything done by Gildon😬

[Squeegee Thompson]

Lol...who has the exact definition of the dong sack?

The Dong Sack came from another Steeler message board (still alive but hanging on by the thinnest of threads). Jason Gildon was glossed, The Gilded Dong due to being overrated by fans and the media as a pass-rusher.

The Dong Sack referred to his one and only pass rush move: Run wide of the right tackle and about 5 yards behind the QB, then hope coverage held up long enough to work your way back to the QB for a coverage sack. He owed Rod Woodson and Carnell Lake a large portion of the credit for the sacks he did accumulate throughout his career.

[Fire Goodell]

Gildong had a very explosive first step, but he was predictable. His main 'move' was the outside speed rush. He'd either get pushed around the arc or come in seemingly unblocked if the tackle wasn't ready for that speed. If he had a more complete skillset, he could have been extremely good.

He basically was the Mike Wallace of OLBs, a one trick pony, but good enough with that one trick to make a decent career, which should have been a lot better. And was overrated due to some pretty impressive looking highlights.

[NCSteeler]

Well, that and they started scheming to his strengths finally rather than trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Personally, I think Dupree's ceiling is slightly above an average NFL player. And, I don't know if he'll ever hit it. But, that being said, forcing him to play outside of his strengths is not a smart idea. (there was a big discussion about that this summer in camp, if I remember correctly, how they were rescheming his position. Several of the radio personalities around the team were saying to be ready for him this year).So lousy coaching hindering the development of young talent. Hmmm

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[DesertSteel]

I'm kinda weird, but I'll take a sack however it comes.

[Born2Steel]

I'm kinda weird, but I'll take a sack however it comes.

Agreed. The job of the defense is to create chaos and make stops not stack stats. The defense and Bud have played well this season.

[HollywoodSteel]

I honestly think INT's should be handled like sacks. For instance if an INT was the result of a batted or deflected pass, the guy who batted the pass should be credited with half an INT. Bush might get that INT on the stat sheet, but Alualu was the one who made it happen.

Given how many easy interceptions our guys have dropped over the past couple years, I can’t consider any pick a gimme.

There’s still a difference between a guy who can haul those in and someone who Ikes it.

[teegre]

The Dong Sack is the most Steelers fan thing I can think of.

A positive play... that still receives a ton of derision. :toofunny:

SUMMATION:
Hines Ward’s TD in Super Bowl XL no longer counts, because he was wide open (anyone could have made that catch). Please, tell him to return his MVP award.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The Dong Sack is the most Steelers fan thing I can think of.

A positive play... that still receives a ton of derision. :toofunny:

SUMMATION:
Hines Ward’s TD in Super Bowl XL no longer counts, because he was wide open (anyone could have made that catch). Please, tell him to return his MVP award.

True. Its like how Steeler fans discredit Bill Cowher as a coach because in his 15 year career he won 1 Super Bowl....that means he lost 14 Super Bowls to Steeler fans.

[Fire Goodell]

The Dong Sack is the most Steelers fan thing I can think of.

A positive play... that still receives a ton of derision. :toofunny:

SUMMATION:
Hines Ward’s TD in Super Bowl XL no longer counts, because he was wide open (anyone could have made that catch). Please, tell him to return his MVP award.

Exactly, Hines Ward won a Dong SBMVP trophy because his catch wasn't into triple coverage like Santonio's was.

But Super Bowl XLIII was a Dong championship because we didn't win by at least 10 points. #1 defense? Laughable! We allowed Warner and Fitzgerald to score a TD and didn't intercept Warner 3 times and sack him at least 10 times. Letting ANYBODY score even 3 points against you is just ridiculous.

Don't even get me started on the 78' season where the infamous toilet paper towel curtain allowed 31 points against the cowgirls. queen joe greene (overpaid fraud who's better off doing coke commercials for a living) would just titty-joust and pussy paw-paw with opposing defenders the entire game, and jack ham, the winged god of linebacker coverage got scorched the entire game.

[pczach]

I'm kinda weird, but I'll take a sack however it comes.


They only count if the scrappiest, undrafted or lowest drafted player gets them. :lol:

I'm with you. I'll take them any way I can and from anyone I can, and smile.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

They only count if the scrappiest, undrafted or lowest drafted player gets them. :lol:
.

Thanks for the clarification. Howard Jones, Steelers UDFA from Sheppard college could never have a dong sack then. Same with Tuzar Skipper lighting up the NFL with 0.5 sacks for the Giants. :applaudit:

[DesertSteel]

Same with Tuzar Skipper lighting up the NFL with 0.5 sacks for the Giants. :applaudit:
That's 0.5 sack that doesn't count for the Steelers!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That's 0.5 sack that doesn't count for the Steelers!

Yeah, but it bet it was a spectacular 0.5 sack, especially since he was the 2019 "Training Camp Hero" for the Steelers that got poached.

If you convert that to Steeler fan sacks, he would have had 10 by now if the Steelers kept him. Its the Jon Kuhn effect.

[Fire Goodell]

Don't get me started on John Kuhn, if we kept him, we would have won 10 super bowls by now.

[Craic]

Don't get me started on John Kuhn, if we kept him, we would have won 10 super bowls by now.

Don't get carried away. We wouldn't have won anything more than nine. :chuckle:

[teegre]

True. Its like how Steeler fans discredit Bill Cowher as a coach because in his 15 year career he won 1 Super Bowl....that means he lost 14 Super Bowls to Steeler fans.

Steelers fans in 2004:
Cowher sux. He hasn’t done anything since all of Noll’s players (Woodson, Dawson) retired. Cowherball is the stupidest thing ever.

Steelers fans in 2019:
Cowher’s tears cure cancer; unfortunately, Cowher never cries. Cowherball is the answer to everything that ails you.

[teegre]

Exactly, Hines Ward won a Dong SBMVP trophy because his catch wasn't into triple coverage like Santonio's was.

But Super Bowl XLIII was a Dong championship because we didn't win by at least 10 points. #1 defense? Laughable! We allowed Warner and Fitzgerald to score a TD and didn't intercept Warner 3 times and sack him at least 10 times. Letting ANYBODY score even 3 points against you is just ridiculous.

Don't even get me started on the 78' season where the infamous toilet paper towel curtain allowed 31 points against the cowgirls. queen joe greene (overpaid fraud who's better off doing coke commercials for a living) would just titty-joust and pussy paw-paw with opposing defenders the entire game, and jack ham, the winged god of linebacker coverage got scorched the entire game.

Speaking of the dong sack and XLIII...

I was banned from StillMill’s site right after that win. How dare I celebrate that “victory”. Apparently, I hadn’t watched closely enough, because according to StillMill, I should have been angry (instead of happy). My joy enfuriated him... and he banned me.

[86WARD]

Didn’t Hines Ward have a dong reception to get to 1000?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Steelers fans in 2004:
Cowher sux. He hasn’t done anything since all of Noll’s players (Woodson, Dawson) retired. Cowherball is the stupidest thing ever.

Steelers fans in 2019:
Cowher’s tears cure cancer; unfortunately, Cowher never cries. Cowherball is the answer to everything that ails you.

Not sure about the 2019 assessment. I get the vibe that a lot of Steeler fans blame him for not having won more Lombardi's. I honestly enjoyed the physicality of those Steeler teams and am amazed that he got to so many playoff games with the likes of Kent Graham, Kordell, O'Donnell, Tomczak, Maddox at the helm. Its the epitome of making Chicken Salad out of Chicken $hit. IMO.

[HollywoodSteel]

Not sure about the 2019 assessment. I get the vibe that a lot of Steeler fans blame him for not having won more Lombardi's. I honestly enjoyed the physicality of those Steeler teams and am amazed that he got to so many playoff games with the likes of Kent Graham, Kordell, O'Donnell, Tomczak, Maddox at the helm. Its the epitome of making Chicken Salad out of Chicken $hit. IMO.

Okay, but he bought the chicken shit ingredients before tossing that chicken salad. If you decide not to draft a good QB, are you really a hero for ALMOST having championship caliber teams with no QB?

[Fire Goodell]

Not sure about the 2019 assessment. I get the vibe that a lot of Steeler fans blame him for not having won more Lombardi's. I honestly enjoyed the physicality of those Steeler teams and am amazed that he got to so many playoff games with the likes of Kent Graham, Kordell, O'Donnell, Tomczak, Maddox at the helm. Its the epitome of making Chicken Salad out of Chicken $hit. IMO.

It might be an unpopular opinion, but I think O'Donnell was good (not great). He would have had a good career had he stayed in Pittsburgh, he ruined his career by signing with the Jets

Kordell was fun to watch, honestly should have gotten us to the SB in 2001. Special teams shit the bed vs the pats allowing 2 punt returns for TD's. Kordell was good at times, but really lacked consistency. Had some good years and some downright horrible ones. Could have been a hall of famer if he stayed at his 'slash' position, his athletic ability was world class. It's possible he could have been a better QB if there was any consistency at OC. It seemed early in his career there was a change to the offensive coordinator trying to implement a different type of offense every time.

[Edman]

It might be an unpopular opinion, but I think O'Donnell was good (not great). He would have had a good career had he stayed in Pittsburgh, he ruined his career by signing with the Jets

Kordell was fun to watch, honestly should have gotten us to the SB in 2001. Special teams shit the bed vs the pats allowing 2 punt returns for TD's. Kordell was good at times, but really lacked consistency. Had some good years and some downright horrible ones. Could have been a hall of famer if he stayed at his 'slash' position, his athletic ability was world class. It's possible he could have been a better QB if there was any consistency at OC. It seemed early in his career there was a change to the offensive coordinator trying to implement a different type of offense every time.

O'Donnell was the only Steelers QB outside of Ben and Bradshaw to advance to a Super Bowl. You can't take that away from him.

O'Donnell's greatest sin wasn't Super Bowl XXX, it was when he bolted for the money after the fact that made him the eternal pariah. If O'Donnell took his lumps to stay with the team after the Super Bowl, he would've been much more beloved, instead of becoming a dirty curse word.

Kordell had talent but was very unpolished, and he needed a steady and stable offense around him so he could grow. Letting Yancy Thigpen walk after 1997 was a critical mistake. Chan Gailey leaving was another death blow. The Ray Sherman disaster was even worse. I don't care how good you are, when you have a roulette wheel of coordinators each and every year, you're not going to succeed. Ask Marcus Mariota about having a new offense to learn every year did for him. Kordell should've stayed "Slash", but he could've been Slash and a lot more.

As much as we hated Bruce Arians, He did a great job making Ben comfortable and helping him develop after Whisenhunt.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Okay, but he bought the chicken shit ingredients before tossing that chicken salad. If you decide not to draft a good QB, are you really a hero for ALMOST having championship caliber teams with no QB?

OK, who was making the decisions to draft or not draft a good QB? Was Tom Donahoe the GM during most of Cowher's tenure and was he just a figurehead, or did Donahoe handle player personnel?

Regardless of whether Donahoe was leading the draft process or not. Who were the great QB's the Steelers were going to select in the drafts when they were drafting in the #20-30 range? Some of the best names that were available on the board when the Steeler card was up to pick were:

-Billy Jo Hobert
-Todd Collins
-Tony Banks
-Jim Druckenmiller
-Charlie Batch
-Shaun King
-Chad Pennington
-Drew Brees
-Patrick Ramsey

So, with the exception of Drew Brees, there were not a lot of great QB's in the top 20 available when they drafted. Yes, they missed on the Quincy Carters, Heath Schuler, Trent Dilfer, Rick Mirer, Drew Bledsoe, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Andre Ware's because they didn't draft high enough. Short of scouring the Hyvee looking for Kurt Warner and drafting Tom Brady in the 6th round. I don't think there were many good QB's to be found when they drafted.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

It might be an unpopular opinion, but I think O'Donnell was good (not great). He would have had a good career had he stayed in Pittsburgh, he ruined his career by signing with the Jets

.

O Donnell benefitted from what in Pittsburgh? A strong Defense and a run game behind a solid O line. And that is what lots of fans like to complain about. Franchise QB's don't grow on trees, so they build contending teams out of 2nd tier QBs' and when the Jets needed a QB in Free Agency, they offered O'Donnell franchise QB money to be their franchise QB, but they didn't have the supporting Defense and Linemen around him in order to be successful.

Lots of fans like to complain that the Steelers management and coaching didn't go get a franchise QB, but they never offer any solutions of who the QB's were they were supposed to get. Other than some grand plan of trading up to the #1 pick to take a QB, when without the benefit of hindsight, that QB was gonna be Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch, Akili Smith or Heath Schuler. :doh:

[Edman]

O Donnell benefitted from what in Pittsburgh? A strong Defense and a run game behind a solid O line. And that is what lots of fans like to complain about. Franchise QB's don't grow on trees, so they build contending teams out of 2nd tier QBs' and when the Jets needed a QB in Free Agency, they offered O'Donnell franchise QB money to be their franchise QB, but they didn't have the supporting Defense and Linemen around him in order to be successful.

Lots of fans like to complain that the Steelers management and coaching didn't go get a franchise QB, but they never offer any solutions of who the QB's were they were supposed to get. Other than some grand plan of trading up to the #1 pick to take a QB, when without the benefit of hindsight, that QB was gonna be Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch, Akili Smith or Heath Schuler. :doh:

Like I said, The 90's were a total crapshoot in regards to QB talent. Especially in the Draft. Only Drew Bledsoe and Peyton Manning were the only "Franchise" guys who turned out to be anything worthwhile, and the former ended up a journeyman. Brett Favre wasn't even a first round QB, and was exiled to Green Bay before becoming anything. The majority of upper echelon of QB talent back then were mostly holdovers from the 80's (Montana, Marino, Elway).

David Klinger, Andre Ware, Rick Mirer, Heath Schuler, Ryan Leaf, Jim Druckenmiller, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown were among the many "first round" quarterbacks in the 90's who busted in the NFL. These guy weren't even average. They were completely forgettable. They just could not play in the NFL.

Good Quarterbacks were rare, Great quarterbacks were lightning in a bottle. Colleges didn't produce them well, either. There was nowhere you could go without rolling the dice. It was only until up to just about a few years ago, where the Quarterback position was given much more respect and care. Now it seems every team now has a Quarterback on their roster who has NFL caliber talent, or at least you confidently say you can win with and develop.

[Hawkman]

This thread no longer has anything whatsoever to do with Bud.:rofl:

[HollywoodSteel]

This thread no longer has anything whatsoever to do with Bud.:rofl:

Just goes to show how hated he is around here. :)

[Mojouw]

In a doomed to fail attempt to yank this sucker back on topic -- https://steelersdepot.com/2019/10/watch-bud-duprees-big-improvement/

Nice video breakdown that shows 3 contrasting examples of "bad" Dupree versus "good" Dupree.

Long story short, it concludes that Dupree is going to make a dump truck full of money this off-season.

I also wonder if "not Joey Porter" being coach has had a bit of a positive impact? Even acknowledging the contract year stuff, someone finally got through to Dupree about developing a pass rush plan besides run really fast...Butler maybe?

[Squeegee Thompson]

O Donnell benefitted from what in Pittsburgh? A strong Defense and a run game behind a solid O line. And that is what lots of fans like to complain about. Franchise QB's don't grow on trees, so they build contending teams out of 2nd tier QBs' and when the Jets needed a QB in Free Agency, they offered O'Donnell franchise QB money to be their franchise QB, but they didn't have the supporting Defense and Linemen around him in order to be successful.

Lots of fans like to complain that the Steelers management and coaching didn't go get a franchise QB, but they never offer any solutions of who the QB's were they were supposed to get. Other than some grand plan of trading up to the #1 pick to take a QB, when without the benefit of hindsight, that QB was gonna be Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch, Akili Smith or Heath Schuler. :doh:

Don't forget, that even when we finally did land a franchise QB, it wasn't Steelers management and coaching that made that happen. It was the ownership that pulled that trigger. Cowher was dead set on taking Shawn Andrews with the #11 pick in 2004, and I'm pretty sure Colbert was in agreement. If it wasn't for Dan Rooney pulling rank and mandating they take some kid from a no-name school in Ohio, the Big Ben era would've happened in Buffalo.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

In a doomed to fail attempt to yank this sucker back on topic -- https://steelersdepot.com/2019/10/watch-bud-duprees-big-improvement/

Nice video breakdown that shows 3 contrasting examples of "bad" Dupree versus "good" Dupree.

Long story short, it concludes that Dupree is going to make a dump truck full of money this off-season.

I also wonder if "not Joey Porter" being coach has had a bit of a positive impact? Even acknowledging the contract year stuff, someone finally got through to Dupree about developing a pass rush plan besides run really fast...Butler maybe?

As much as I think Dupree is better than most give him credit for and its nice to see that he is finally making some progress with his hand fighting and technique. The 3 plays shown in that video are vs 1. Trent Scott of the Chargers, an undrafted FA, 2. Andre Smith of the Bengals, who is a major bust and was playing due to injury and 3. Duane Brown, a pro bowl LT that he got one push-pull move on in the video, but otherwise had 0 sacks, 1 QB hit that entire game vs the Seahawks.

So in the 3 videos, Dupree beat 2 scrubs and got 1 Pro Bowl LT off balance, but otherwise managed only one QB hit that entire game. I would have liked to see Dupree give the 34 year old Duane Brown more issues than one single QB hit before we start anointing him significantly improved. At this point I think he is good, but substandard to what is needed at the OLB position. Really hoping the Steelers can find a OLB in the 2020 draft.

[BlackAndGold]

It will be interesting to see how they handle Dupree and Hargraves contracts. Who do they re-sign? I don't see them losing both.

[Mojouw]

As much as I think Dupree is better than most give him credit for and its nice to see that he is finally making some progress with his hand fighting and technique. The 3 plays shown in that video are vs 1. Trent Scott of the Chargers, an undrafted FA, 2. Andre Smith of the Bengals, who is a major bust and was playing due to injury and 3. Duane Brown, a pro bowl LT that he got one push-pull move on in the video, but otherwise had 0 sacks, 1 QB hit that entire game vs the Seahawks.

So in the 3 videos, Dupree beat 2 scrubs and got 1 Pro Bowl LT off balance, but otherwise managed only one QB hit that entire game. I would have liked to see Dupree give the 34 year old Duane Brown more issues than one single QB hit before we start anointing him significantly improved. At this point I think he is good, but substandard to what is needed at the OLB position. Really hoping the Steelers can find a OLB in the 2020 draft.

Those are really important points. Do you happen to have Watt's stats in the same games? Would be interesting to contrast the two.

While I am not really arguing that Dupree is great or anything, I do think he is wildly undervalued by Steelers fans. It isn't so much that he is a significantly better player than most fans perceive him to be, it is the exact player he is is FAR more valued across the NFL than Steelers' fans seem to think.

What I am trying to say is that Steelers fans would be beyond mad if the team signed Dupree for $10-12 million per year. A great swath of the league's GMs would be thinking they got a decent deal if they signed Dupree to a FA contract at that price point.

[pczach]

Those are really important points. Do you happen to have Watt's stats in the same games? Would be interesting to contrast the two.

While I am not really arguing that Dupree is great or anything, I do think he is wildly undervalued by Steelers fans. It isn't so much that he is a significantly better player than most fans perceive him to be, it is the exact player he is is FAR more valued across the NFL than Steelers' fans seem to think.

What I am trying to say is that Steelers fans would be beyond mad if the team signed Dupree for $10-12 million per year. A great swath of the league's GMs would be thinking they got a decent deal if they signed Dupree to a FA contract at that price point.



If they let Dupree walk, look for some of the same people that have been crushing him since he became a Steeler to rag on his successor.

The next guy may be accused of being lazy, having no work ethic, sucking beyond comprehension, etc...... Particularly if they are a high draft pick or expensive free agent.

Listening to people here bitch and accuse players of things they literally have no knowledge of is priceless.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Those are really important points. Do you happen to have Watt's stats in the same games? Would be interesting to contrast the two.

While I am not really arguing that Dupree is great or anything, I do think he is wildly undervalued by Steelers fans. It isn't so much that he is a significantly better player than most fans perceive him to be, it is the exact player he is is FAR more valued across the NFL than Steelers' fans seem to think.

What I am trying to say is that Steelers fans would be beyond mad if the team signed Dupree for $10-12 million per year. A great swath of the league's GMs would be thinking they got a decent deal if they signed Dupree to a FA contract at that price point.

Watt had one sack off a T-E stunt and one hit in that game. I seem to recall Tuitt being a monster that game and TJ was really active, but Dupree was OK.

I know you are not saying he is great. I just think many wont actually look at the video link that you posted and just conclude that he is going to "make a dump truck full of money" because you say so. When IMO the video shows him getting over on 2 scrubs and the only thing he did against Brown was catch him off balance once. IMO, the title of that Steelersdepot article is much more impressive than the video.

Here is Watt's sack on Wilson. Look on the other side at what Dupree does vs Brown. https://www.steelers.com/video/highlight-watt-sacks-wilson-on-third-down He just gets stopped and then spins back into Brown so he can get blocked more easily. Bud honestly could get a $5-6 million contract and it would be fine, but somebody is likely gonna offer him $8-12 million a year and he isn't worth that kind of cap hit.

[Mojouw]

Watt had one sack off a T-E stunt and one hit in that game. I seem to recall Tuitt being a monster that game and TJ was really active, but Dupree was OK.

I know you are not saying he is great. I just think many wont actually look at the video link that you posted and just conclude that he is going to "make a dump truck full of money" because you say so. When IMO the video shows him getting over on 2 scrubs and the only thing he did against Brown was catch him off balance once. IMO, the title of that Steelersdepot article is much more impressive than the video.

Here is Watt's sack on Wilson. Look on the other side at what Dupree does vs Brown. https://www.steelers.com/video/highlight-watt-sacks-wilson-on-third-down He just gets stopped and then spins back into Brown so he can get blocked more easily. Bud honestly could get a $5-6 million contract and it would be fine, but somebody is likely gonna offer him $8-12 million a year and he isn't worth that kind of cap hit.

That is what makes this discussion so hard. Fans and many people who are paid to think/write/talk about football can make a well supported argument that Dupree is not worth $8-12 million per year. And in a totally objective valuation, they would be correct. But in the wacky world of NFL free agency, Dupree is "worth" far more.

It only takes one NFL GM to look at Dupree and say that he is getting a 27 year old edge rusher who has finally started putting his pass rush game together while being a solid or better run defender. Plus he provides "scheme flexibility" in that he plays in space with more fluidity than a great percentage of OLBs, particularly those that hit free agency younger than 30. A GM does that, and it is pretty easy to arrive at a "market value" just below the $16 million tier that the Packers gave both the Smiths last off-season. That is why I strongly believe that Dupree is going to get a dump truck of money if he hits the open market.

Remember Shaq Barrett got $4 million in free agency and he had worse #'s and tape than Dupree.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That is what makes this discussion so hard. Fans and many people who are paid to think/write/talk about football can make a well supported argument that Dupree is not worth $8-12 million per year. And in a totally objective valuation, they would be correct. But in the wacky world of NFL free agency, Dupree is "worth" far more.

It only takes one NFL GM to look at Dupree and say that he is getting a 27 year old edge rusher who has finally started putting his pass rush game together while being a solid or better run defender. Plus he provides "scheme flexibility" in that he plays in space with more fluidity than a great percentage of OLBs, particularly those that hit free agency younger than 30. A GM does that, and it is pretty easy to arrive at a "market value" just below the $16 million tier that the Packers gave both the Smiths last off-season. That is why I strongly believe that Dupree is going to get a dump truck of money if he hits the open market.

Remember Shaq Barrett got $4 million in free agency and he had worse #'s and tape than Dupree.

I agree with you. It only takes one GM to think Dupree and his talents are on the rise. Just like it only takes one draftnik or GM to think Artie Burns is a first round CB because he had 5 INT's his Junior year at Miami and ran a 4.4. I personally find both amusing, because they don't look like it to me and I think I will be proven correct with Dupree as well.

IMO, Bud is an OK OLB, but he isn't on par with what the Steelers are used to around here. He isn't Porter, Harrison, Gildon, Lloyd, Woodley type production. Heck, I don't even think he has proven himself to be above Clark Haggans production. IMO he is hovering around the Jasom Worlidong line and that isn't a great place to be.

[steelreserve]

But in the wacky world of NFL free agency, Dupree is "worth" far more.

It only takes one NFL GM to look at Dupree and say that he is getting a 27 year old edge rusher who has finally started putting his pass rush game together while being a solid or better run defender.

Precisely. So let's hope it's one of the other 31 GMs and not ours.

Saying Dupree is "worth" more because of the free agent market is just another way of saying he will be overpaid. In no way is that to our advantage - in fact, it will be a problem for whoever signs him. We can completely avoid that and let it be somebody else's problem. Absolutely we should let him hit the open market and go away, and then we can easily replace his relatively low impact in any number of ways that do not cost us $12M a season. A mid-round draft pick and an Arthur Moats level signing (when he first came to the team, not when he left) should just about cover it; one of them at least will fill that miniscule void.

[Mojouw]

Overpaid or not, I think that the Steelers will be dealing with a significant defict in play and production at the OLB position next year. Ola isn't ready nor does he seem as capable in space. Bargain shopping the FA market is how you get the Mark Barron, Mike Mitchell, and Donte Moncrief's of the world.

Remember that everything that the Steelers fanbase was and is saying about Bud Dupree is similar to what the Chiefs said about Steve Nelson -- without the 1st round pick stuff.

While I do agree and think that parting ways with Dupree is the correct and sensible move for the 2020 Pittsburgh Steelers; I also argue that the team will be noticeably worse for an off-season or two while they find a replacement.

I am starting to believe that edge rushers are the opposite of QBs...if you don't have 2, you have none.

[steelreserve]

Overpaid or not, I think that the Steelers will be dealing with a significant defict in play and production at the OLB position next year. Ola isn't ready nor does he seem as capable in space. Bargain shopping the FA market is how you get the Mark Barron, Mike Mitchell, and Donte Moncrief's of the world.

Remember that everything that the Steelers fanbase was and is saying about Bud Dupree is similar to what the Chiefs said about Steve Nelson -- without the 1st round pick stuff.

While I do agree and think that parting ways with Dupree is the correct and sensible move for the 2020 Pittsburgh Steelers; I also argue that the team will be noticeably worse for an off-season or two while they find a replacement.

I am starting to believe that edge rushers are the opposite of QBs...if you don't have 2, you have none.

I think you are right about most of that stuff, only question is how big the drop-off will be - which is largely a question of how good one thinks Dupree is now. (That is the part where you and I have very different opinions, of course.)

I don't think Ola, or Skipper, or anyone on the roster now is ready to be a kick-ass NFL starter any time soon. So if people are basing their idea that Dupree isn't worth it on one of those guys turning out to be a star, they are going to be sorely disappointed. What I do think is that Dupree still isn't very good, so even if Ola or someone else is not very good either, we won't suffer that much.

I think DB is the position that's most like you said - if you have one bad one, he drags down the entire unit (OL is kind of like that too).

OLB seems more like - you need ONE guy who can legit create plays on his own, and the other guy just needs to be ok. In fact, as long as he doesn't suck so badly that you can basically ignore him, having the playmaker on the opposite side will help the ok player out a lot.

Of course, the true playmakers are REALLY rare, like almost as rare as quarterbacks. We've had maybe three in the last 20 years - Porter, Harrison, and Watt. But what happens a lot is that the "other" OLB who is helped out by the playmaker will be mistaken for a playmaker himself because he has like 8 or 9 sacks, and that's where you get the big disappointing Woodley contracts for guys who turn out not to be able to create anything on their own. And also a lot of big-contract disappointments because some GM took a gamble on a guy he hopes will grow into a playmaker based on a little "potential", but that's dumb because you have no better odds of that than with any other player of average skill, which is to say not a whole lot.

[teegre]

I saw an infographic on Twitter that had TJ Watt high up... and surprisingly, Robert Quinn as the top-top.

What was frustrating was that Shaq Barrett was waaay up there (higher than even Watt). Why does this bug me? Joey Porter coached Barrett at Colorado St. I assumed that Barrett was a lock to be a Steeler. Instead, we wasted a bunch of picks crap... and, Barrett went undrafted.

At the time, the though was that the Steelers has the “inside track” on signing Barrett as a URFA, because of his ties to Joey Porter. Nope. Instead, we cut three of those four late-round draft picks after their first camp.

Oh, and keeping with the theme of this thread: Dupree wasn’t the worst; he was okayish.

[HollywoodSteel]

The Steelers have had a lot of sacks over the past few seasons. I know Dupree hasn’t personally wracked up a lot, but what I’m wondering is, is there a drop off to our likelihood of getting a sack when he’s been off the off the field? And not just a sack, but a successful defensive play.

I’m personally much happier when Dupree is on the field than when he isn’t, but I’d be interested in knowing to what extent that happiness is justified. Especially this season.

I know that doesn’t necessarily speak to what he’s “worth” in a general salary sense, but it might help illuminate how valuable he is to us right now.

[Born2Steel]

The Steelers have had a lot of sacks over the past few seasons. I know Dupree hasn’t personally wracked up a lot, but what I’m wondering is, is there a drop off to our likelihood of getting a sack when he’s been off the off the field? And not just a sack, but a successful defensive play.

I’m personally much happier when Dupree is on the field than when he isn’t, but I’d be interested in knowing to what extent that happiness is justified. Especially this season.

I know that doesn’t necessarily speak to what he’s “worth” in a general salary sense, but it might help illuminate how valuable he is to us right now.

Great question and post.

[steelreserve]

The Steelers have had a lot of sacks over the past few seasons. I know Dupree hasn’t personally wracked up a lot, but what I’m wondering is, is there a drop off to our likelihood of getting a sack when he’s been off the off the field? And not just a sack, but a successful defensive play.

I’m personally much happier when Dupree is on the field than when he isn’t, but I’d be interested in knowing to what extent that happiness is justified. Especially this season.

I know that doesn’t necessarily speak to what he’s “worth” in a general salary sense, but it might help illuminate how valuable he is to us right now.

Ask the same question, except change "Dupree" to "Tuitt" or "Watt." Then you will be getting somewhere.

Tuitt and Watt are the guys who are the actual playmakers and space-creators for the pass rush. Heyward and Hargrave to a lesser extent. Dupree is the guy along for the ride.

[Six Rings]

OK, who was making the decisions to draft or not draft a good QB? Was Tom Donahoe the GM during most of Cowher's tenure and was he just a figurehead, or did Donahoe handle player personnel?

Regardless of whether Donahoe was leading the draft process or not. Who were the great QB's the Steelers were going to select in the drafts when they were drafting in the #20-30 range? Some of the best names that were available on the board when the Steeler card was up to pick were:

-Billy Jo Hobert
-Todd Collins
-Tony Banks
-Jim Druckenmiller
-Charlie Batch
-Shaun King
-Chad Pennington
-Drew Brees
-Patrick Ramsey

So, with the exception of Drew Brees, there were not a lot of great QB's in the top 20 available when they drafted. Yes, they missed on the Quincy Carters, Heath Schuler, Trent Dilfer, Rick Mirer, Drew Bledsoe, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Andre Ware's because they didn't draft high enough. Short of scouring the Hyvee looking for Kurt Warner and drafting Tom Brady in the 6th round. I don't think there were many good QB's to be found when they drafted.

Very good post. One thing to note. Brees would have been a 1st round pick if the round was 32 deep like it is today. It wasn't back then.

The Steelers didn't need a top QB. We went to the super bowl with O'Donnell, who was a decent passing QB at the end os his tenure, then hitched our wagon to Kordell Stewart. A mistake. I would have drafted Brees. Had the Steelers kept O'Donnell and maybe added a playmaker at receiver, we could have gone back to the super bowl. As it was we had a dynasty level Cowboys team in their prime up agains the ropes until Andre Hastings ran the wrong route.

[teegre]

Very good post. One thing to note. Brees would have been a 1st round pick if the round was 32 deep like it is today. It wasn't back then.

The Steelers didn't need a top QB. We went to the super bowl with O'Donnell, who was a decent passing QB at the end os his tenure, then hitched our wagon to Kordell Stewart. A mistake. I would have drafted Brees. Had the Steelers kept O'Donnell and maybe added a playmaker at receiver, we could have gone back to the super bowl. As it was we had a dynasty level Cowboys team in their prime up agains the ropes until Andre Hastings ran the wrong route.

Every draft pundit and Steelers fan was locked in on Brees. But, Cowher wanted Dan Morgan (ILB, The U). Brees was never on his radar.

SIDENOTE: The Chargers had Brees, LT, Gates, and the second-best O-line in the league. Had they stuck with Brees, and drafted Larry Fitzgerald... they had at least one Lombardi.

It wasn’t Andre Hastings; it was Corey Holliday. But, actually... a certain unnamed QB (who had the lowest INT rate in the NFL) suddenly threw three really, really off target balls. It’s almost as if../ I don’t know... he was PAID to throw that game.

[HollywoodSteel]

Ask the same question, except change "Dupree" to "Tuitt" or "Watt." Then you will be getting somewhere.

Tuitt and Watt are the guys who are the actual playmakers and space-creators for the pass rush. Heyward and Hargrave to a lesser extent. Dupree is the guy along for the ride.

Asking the question about Tuitt or Watt isn’t as interesting because there’s no controversy about their greatness.

If it turns out there has been no dropoff when Chickillo has been in for Dupree, then that would be very informative. It would tell us that Dupree has indeed just been along for the ride.

[steelreserve]

Asking the question about Tuitt or Watt isn’t as interesting because there’s no controversy about their greatness.

If it turns out there has been no dropoff when Chickillo has been in for Dupree, then that would be very informative. It would tell us that Dupree has indeed just been along for the ride.

That would just tell us that Dupree is better than Chickillo. They are both along for the ride.