Unlike Rudolph, Roethlisberger Threw Down-Field Regularly In First Few Career Starts

[Shoes]

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph will make his third career start Sunday at Heinz Field against Baltimore and it will be a big game for the third-round draft pick out of Oklahoma state. While Rudolph has been far from awful in the 10 quarters of football he’s played since taking over for the injured Ben Roethlisberger, the one noticeable thing that’s stuck out so far about his play is that he doesn’t push the football down the field much and that’s easily backed up by his 6.0 average intended air yards stat

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/10/unlike-rudolph-roethlisberger-threw-down-field-regularly-in-first-few-career-starts/

[cubanstogie]

way overblown, situation will dictate if he needs to throw down field more. I want wins , don't really care about the QB stats. No pics or sacks is what I like, you can throw it 25 yards down field for completion then get sacked or picked to negate it. I get it though we need something to be negative about since AB is out of the news for a week.

[Fire Goodell]

It'll come, we have a young WR group that needs time to get it all together. Ben had Ward, Randle El, Nate Washington and Heath Miller. That definitely has something to do with it. Not to mention when you have Willie Parker and the Bus, and have a tendency to run the ball 40 times a game, other teams HAVE to respect the play action.

What I do like is when Mason does take those shots down the field, he's hitting the mark.

[steelreserve]

The designer stats are really getting ridiculous.

You want a concerning stat, how about Tom Brady's career 0.08 horses jerked off per game. Frankly, anything above zero is too high.

[86WARD]

This is a non-sense narrative. So many variables that don’t correlate whatsoever. Although I didn’t read the story because of that thought...let me guess, Matthew Markowicz write this?

[GoSlash27]

Bill Cowher vs. Mike Tomlin. Ken Wisenhunt vs. Randy Fichtner. Those people have more to do with this stat than Ben Roethlisberger vs. Mason Rudolph.

[Edman]

Article pointing out the obvious.

Rudolph is not a down the field gunslinger like Ben, and I have seen nothing to indicate that he will be anything otherwise. At least not this year. He can throw it Deep, but he’s just not that kind of quarterback. He is Budget Brady-Lite. He strikes me as a guy who will surgically pick the defense apart down the field.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This is a non-sense narrative. So many variables that don’t correlate whatsoever. Although I didn’t read the story because of that thought...let me guess, Matthew Markowicz write this?

Dave Bryan. Its a bad read...waste of 2 minutes

[Shoes]

Dave Bryan. Its a bad read...waste of 2 minutes

:lol:

[Mojouw]

It also needs noted that this is 15 years apart. Football is pretty different.

[stillers4me]

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Some of you may not like Steelers Depot...but it's about all that's left that can be posted these days. Most of the "quality" articles are behind paywalls....even the Post Gazette.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

It also needs noted that this is 15 years apart. Football is pretty different.

Very true.

The title and the article sound like a 5 year old telling another, "My big brother is better than your big brother!" It's just a guy blogging about his football hero that happens to be injured and why he is still the bestest ever.

[Mojouw]

Very true.

The title and the article sound like a 5 year old telling another, "My big brother is better than your big brother!" It's just a guy blogging about his football hero that happens to be injured and why he is still the bestest ever.
That all may be true. But Rudolph is throwing some of the shallowest passes in the entire league. If they don’t start forcing teams to either move guys out of the box and/or get into sub packages, they are going to have a hard time running the ball and converting third downs if they have to constantly face a vertically compact field.

Comparing a stat that is specifically designed to assess how often and to what degree a team is attacking defenses vertically is an interesting idea and can be the basis for an outside assessment of offensive approach.

Now it has only been 2 weeks of Rudolph centered football. Not a great amount of information to draw conclusions. This week is the fist big test. If it doesnt look like an NFL offense in the vertical passing element, it might be cause for concern.

[teegre]

Ben is better than Rudolph.

And...???

That’s like saying that TJ Watt sucks because he isn’t as good as Jack Ham. :huh:

[Fire Goodell]

Well, Jack Ham is the original winged god of linebacker coverage lol

[AtlantaDan]

Now it has only been 2 weeks of Rudolph centered football. Not a great amount of information to draw conclusions. This week is the fist big test. If it doesnt look like an NFL offense in the vertical passing element, it might be cause for concern.

If it is cause for concern Fichtner wants to make certain we know it is the execution of the plays and not the play calling that is to blame

This after the San Francisco loss

“I don’t know that it was conservative,” Fichtner said. “I thought we put ourselves in position. We had some opportunities, even for some shots (down the field). If you don’t connect or throw them, it never really materializes.”

https://937thefan.radio.com/articles/fichtner-critical-rudolph-not-second-guessing

More wisdom from Fichtner this week

“We always talk about ‘catch short, run long,’” Fichtner said. “We’ve got to break tackles. We’ve got to make guys miss. That’s the way this league is. We call (them) playmakers. Playmakers got to make plays. If you’re on the field, you’re a playmaker. Make plays.”

https://triblive.com/sports/kevin-gorman-steelers-ready-for-mason-rudolph-to-make-big-plays-against-ravens/

So it is either Rudolph failing to throw deep or receivers not breaking tackles on short passes that is the problem - every play sent in is a well designed potential TD call http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes2.gif

[Mojouw]

If it is cause for concern Fichtner wants to make certain we know it is the execution of the plays and not the play calling that is to blame

This after the San Francisco loss

“I don’t know that it was conservative,” Fichtner said. “I thought we put ourselves in position. We had some opportunities, even for some shots (down the field). If you don’t connect or throw them, it never really materializes.”

https://937thefan.radio.com/articles/fichtner-critical-rudolph-not-second-guessing

More wisdom from Fichtner this week

“We always talk about ‘catch short, run long,’” Fichtner said. “We’ve got to break tackles. We’ve got to make guys miss. That’s the way this league is. We call (them) playmakers. Playmakers got to make plays. If you’re on the field, you’re a playmaker. Make plays.”

https://triblive.com/sports/kevin-gorman-steelers-ready-for-mason-rudolph-to-make-big-plays-against-ravens/

So it is either Rudolph failing to throw deep or receivers not breaking tackles on short passes that is the problem - every play sent in is a well designed potential TD call :rolleyes:

I don't particularly care whose fault it is or isn't. For me, that is the important thing to think about when you look at just the "analytics". It is a number that is attempting to encapsulate a great number of things.

What we can say is that through roughly 10 quarters of football, Rudolph is not throwing the ball down the field except on "busted" coverages to essentially wide open WRs. Any "metric" we want to pick tells us that.

What we don't know is if it is play design, hesitation on Rudolph's part, poor play calls, WRs not getting open, excellent coverage schemes, and on and on -- the list is pretty long of factors that can impact how far down the field an offense is attacking with the pass.

It will have to change. The days of winning by turning around and handing off 35 times are well in the past. High level NFL offenses are stretching out defenses both horizontally and vertically. Even the run focused Ravens are taking regular deep shots in the passing game. Whether or not you complete them at a high rate is another level of the discussion. But you need to take them to loosen up the defensive plan against your offense.

Honestly, if I was an opposing defense right now, I would put 8-9 guys in the box and tell my guys that everything will be within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. Don't worry about anything outside of that. Don't let motion, fakes, whatever take your focus away from that zone of the field. Then, I see if Rudolph can make me pay for it.

I think what we saw early in Ben R's rookie year was that he couldn't read coverages well. He didn't go through progressions, like at all. So they gave him 1 read on one side of the field and that was that. BUT -- Ben proved early on that he could make teams pay for the defense packing guys into the box to stop the run game. He could identify single coverage on the outside WR and when he had, he took his shot.

The question is, can Rudolph respond in a similar manner? He already seems ahead in processing the game and working through progressions. But can he make defenses change their plan? The upward movement of the intended air yards stat will reflect that.

[Craic]

Everyone saying this is a different era of football is correct, it's a passing era, and in a passing era if a QB isn't passing downfield, it's at least noteworthy if not a reason for concern. Again, I put it on development at this point. Development of reading defenses, development of progressions once the play starts, development of understanding the game speed, and development of arm strength. But, completely dismissing this fact really doesn't change the reality that at this point in time, this offense cannot beat good defenses. Hopefully, it'll develop before we do meet one, and at least we've been seeing an upward trend.

[86WARD]

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Some of you may not like Steelers Depot...but it's about all that's left that can be posted these days. Most of the "quality" articles are behind paywalls....even the Post Gazette.

I like Steelers Depot for the most part...except for the Matthew Mahogany guy and the occasional “No shit” articles from the others. Bryan is usually pretty good...this article here is just nonsense.

[DesertSteel]

Everyone saying this is a different era of football is correct, it's a passing era, and in a passing era if a QB isn't passing downfield, it's at least noteworthy if not a reason for concern. Again, I put it on development at this point. Development of reading defenses, development of progressions once the play starts, development of understanding the game speed, and development of arm strength. But, completely dismissing this fact really doesn't change the reality that at this point in time, this offense cannot beat good defenses. Hopefully, it'll develop before we do meet one, and at least we've been seeing an upward trend.
Development? How bout inexperience?

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Let’s give Rudolph more than two starts before we have to go back and watch highlights of Ben’s rookie passes.

[Craic]

Development? How bout inexperience?

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Let’s give Rudolph more than two starts before we have to go back and watch highlights of Ben’s rookie passes.

Every inexperienced QB must develop. Why else would I be talking about development? Your post doesn't really make sense to me. And, I didn't post Ben's highlights. So why are you bringing that up to me?

[cold-hard-steel]

So let me get this right,you can be inexperienced,but already be developed...….develop your inexperience...…..experience your development. Hmmmmmmmmm.

[86WARD]

Did Rudolph not throw the long ball a ton at OSU?

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Did Rudolph not throw the long ball a ton at OSU? Yea but he don't have his favorite wr now that caught most of them. Oops never mind.

[Craic]

Did Rudolph not throw the long ball a ton at OSU?

He did. I think the issue at this point is confidence/timing/game speed. Until he's used to, and comfortable, with how fast windows close for passes at the NFL level, and how much lead time he has to get the ball there vs. throwing an interception or hospital pass, he's going to shy away from it unless it's a pretty sure thing.

In some ways, I can't fault him. As I said before, right now he's a game manager. I'm okay with that at this stage of his development. If he can manage an NFL game to a W just 2 or 3 games into his career, we're doing okay. The next step is making sure he doesn't stall at that point of development.

[Mojouw]

He did. I think the issue at this point is confidence/timing/game speed. Until he's used to, and comfortable, with how fast windows close for passes at the NFL level, and how much lead time he has to get the ball there vs. throwing an interception or hospital pass, he's going to shy away from it unless it's a pretty sure thing.

In some ways, I can't fault him. As I said before, right now he's a game manager. I'm okay with that at this stage of his development. If he can manage an NFL game to a W just 2 or 3 games into his career, we're doing okay. The next step is making sure he doesn't stall at that point of development.

Exactly. Great take. It is possible to be both excited by Rydolphs potential and positive about his development while still pointing out areas for improvement. Right now he reminds me of a pre injury Chad Pennington. You can win with that guy as your QB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pczach]

He did. I think the issue at this point is confidence/timing/game speed. Until he's used to, and comfortable, with how fast windows close for passes at the NFL level, and how much lead time he has to get the ball there vs. throwing an interception or hospital pass, he's going to shy away from it unless it's a pretty sure thing.

In some ways, I can't fault him. As I said before, right now he's a game manager. I'm okay with that at this stage of his development. If he can manage an NFL game to a W just 2 or 3 games into his career, we're doing okay. The next step is making sure he doesn't stall at that point of development.


There is also a huge adjustment to what a college quarterback considers "open". In his college system, Rudolph was constantly throwing to guys that were wide open, with yards of separation. In the NFL, the game is faster, the separation between receiver and defender is far less, and the windows are much smaller and close quicker. As a quarterback, you have to adjust what you believe "open" is. Your confidence is tested, and your skills are pushed to their limits. Accuracy is at a premium, and you have to be able to trust where your receivers are going to be and be able to deliver them the ball and believe they will make the play.

Playing quarterback in the NFL is the most difficult position in sports. There is a very unique skillset required, and elite athleticism with mental elasticity and elite processing are part of that package. Throw in having an alpha male mentality and an undying confidence in themselves that they can and will make every play.

There is a reason why there are only a handful of guys on the planet that are great at this.

[DesertSteel]

Exactly. Great take. It is possible to be both excited by Rydolphs potential and positive about his development while still pointing out areas for improvement. Right now he reminds me of a pre injury Chad Pennington. You can win with that guy as your QB.


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I wanted Chad over Plaxico that year in the draft. I was sure they were going to do it.

[teegre]

I wanted Chad over Plaxico that year in the draft. I was sure they were going to do it.

I was shocked when they didn’t draft Pennington.

On the topic of development, sometimes players need a year to get up to the “speed” of the NFL. Troy was a demon in college, looked lost in his first year playing, and then returned to being a demon once the game slowed down for him.