ARTICLE Film Room: Artie Burns Struggles, Possibly Benched For Punt Coverage Woes

[Shoes]

Week One was a good start for Artie Burns. I liked his body language and more importantly, his play on special teams. But last week felt the opposite, at least, for the latter. Burns had one of the toughest days I’ve ever seen from someone on special teams and it was so bad he was benched by the end of it. So let’s look at all the hidden yardage given up.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/09/film-room-artie-burns-struggles-possibly-benched-for-punt-coverage-woes/

[Squeegee Thompson]

I remember wincing at those open-field whiffs when I was watching the game. I didn't realize it was Artie "Oh-My-God-This" Burns.

Thank God we got Steven Nelson in the off-season. Burns is beyond awful at this point.

[Steeldude]

He is deliberately not trying. I mentioned this multiple times last year after the Bears' game. I couldn't find the play I wanted to highlight. Bears' RB Howard ran right at Burns. Burns pretended he fell down so he woudn't have to make contact.

Watch Burns at 02:28 and 08:25 vs the Chiefs last year.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr5aeF7vLRsI was met with, "No player would do that."

Burns was horrible during his rookie season and went down hill from there.

[Fire Goodell]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/xULW8CVCfQn2QytFM4/source.gif

[Edman]

Let Artie Burnt be an example as to why the Steelers traded the 2020 first round pick for Fitzpatrick in the first place. They are no longer wasting their time with defensive projects, and there is no one in the upcoming draft that is worth it. Quarterback? Ben is potentially coming back and they already like Mason going forward, so that part is out the window for now.

Unless they are absolutely blue-chip, These first round defensive projects are no good. The failures of Dupree and Burnt have scared the daylights out of the front office.

Then again, Butler is terrible, so that makes a difference too.

[Shoes]

What do you expect from a guy? Work? :chuckle:

Artie Burns signed a 4 year, $9,590,981 contract with the Pittsburgh Steelers, including a $5,175,259 signing bonus, $7,383,120 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $2,397,745. In 2019, Burns will earn a base salary of $957,862 and a roster bonus of $800,000, while carrying a cap hit of $3,051,679 and a dead cap value of $1,293,817.

[steelreserve]

Let Artie Burnt be an example as to why the Steelers traded the 2020 first round pick for Fitzpatrick in the first place. They are no longer wasting their time with defensive projects, and there is no one in the upcoming draft that is worth it. Quarterback? Ben is potentially coming back and they already like Mason going forward, so that part is out the window for now.

Unless they are absolutely blue-chip, These first round defensive projects are no good. The failures of Dupree and Burnt have scared the daylights out of the front office.

Then again, Butler is terrible, so that makes a difference too.

To put it in perspective, we have used three recent first-round picks and two second-round picks to fix the secondary, as well as numerous lower picks, and our net return on that is ONE decent safety who we got in a trade for one of the picks. And the only serviceable corners are free agents who we're paying $10 million.

We fuckin SUCK at this. Maybe we finally are acknowledging it.

[BlackAndGold]

At least he plays well in the preseason.

[Edman]

To put it in perspective, we have used three recent first-round picks and two second-round picks to fix the secondary, as well as numerous lower picks, and our net return on that is ONE decent safety who we got in a trade for one of the picks. And the only serviceable corners are free agents who we're paying $10 million.

We fuckin SUCK at this. Maybe we finally are acknowledging it.

Dupree and Burns were defensive players taken in the mid-late first round. Players taken there usually end up to be reaches or projects. Compared to Troy Polamalu, who was the top safety in his draft and bonafide Top 10 pick, and is on his way to Canton.

The Steelers wanted William Jackson III in 2016, but the Bengals jumped them, forcing them to scramble and take Burns. To be fair, WJIII isn't all that good either. In hindsight, the 2016 draft was a mess all around. So many misses after the first six picks.

Nah. No more Defensive projects unless the guy is truly worth it.

[Mojouw]

http://pfref.com/tiny/HX5x2

looks like no one is really all that good at it. Burns is clearly one of the worst 1st round DB picks, but that isn't exactly a universal roster of DB stars. Some clearly are. Some are only serviceable and some are pretty not good.

[Shoes]

http://pfref.com/tiny/HX5x2

looks like no one is really all that good at it. Burns is clearly one of the worst 1st round DB picks, but that isn't exactly a universal roster of DB stars. Some clearly are. Some are only serviceable and some are pretty not good.

And they make a lot of money being hacks. :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

And they make a lot of money being hacks. :chuckle:

Meanwhile the rest of us have to work for a living!

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

He is a worse Bust then Jarvis! Garbage from the start!

[Steeldude]

Dupree and Burns were defensive players taken in the mid-late first round. Players taken there usually end up to be reaches or projects. Compared to Troy Polamalu, who was the top safety in his draft and bonafide Top 10 pick, and is on his way to Canton.

The Steelers wanted William Jackson III in 2016, but the Bengals jumped them, forcing them to scramble and take Burns. To be fair, WJIII isn't all that good either. In hindsight, the 2016 draft was a mess all around. So many misses after the first six picks.

Nah. No more Defensive projects unless the guy is truly worth it.

And weren't Dupree and Burns 3rd to 4th round talents?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

http://pfref.com/tiny/HX5x2

looks like no one is really all that good at it. Burns is clearly one of the worst 1st round DB picks, but that isn't exactly a universal roster of DB stars. Some clearly are. Some are only serviceable and some are pretty not good.

My untrained eye didn't see Burns as a 1st round pick, but rather rounds 3-5. I thought it would be safer to look at Mackensie Alexander or Kendall Fuller in the late 2nd to 3rd round, but they were slot corners and the Steelers seemed bent on getting somebody to play outside. Too bad he cant play.

[Mojouw]

My untrained eye didn't see Burns as a 1st round pick, but rather rounds 3-5. I thought it would be safer to look at Mackensie Alexander or Kendall Fuller in the late 2nd to 3rd round, but they were slot corners and the Steelers seemed bent on getting somebody to play outside. Too bad he cant play.

Agreed. I really wasn't trying to make a case for Burns being good or even properly rated regarding where he was picked. Just thought it was interesting that a really cursory look indicates that NFL teams are not good at projecting DBs. The Steelers may be worse than most, but I believe that teams are really having a hard time identifying "good" DB prospects. Everyone seems to agree on the top 2-4 guys each class and then it kinda starts falling apart. Honestly, and I have nothing to back this up, but it feels like the only ways to build a coherent and deep secondary is a combination of luck, aggressive free agent signings, and then spamming the position group in the draft until you hit on a few guys.

[fansince'76]

He is a worse Bust then Jarvis! Garbage from the start!

I thought he showed some progress as a rookie, but then fell completely off a cliff.

[teegre]

Dupree and Burns were defensive players taken in the mid-late first round. Players taken there usually end up to be reaches or projects. Compared to Troy Polamalu, who was the top safety in his draft and bonafide Top 10 pick, and is on his way to Canton.

The Steelers wanted William Jackson III in 2016, but the Bengals jumped them, forcing them to scramble and take Burns. To be fair, WJIII isn't all that good either. In hindsight, the 2016 draft was a mess all around. So many misses after the first six picks.

Nah. No more Defensive projects unless the guy is truly worth it.

Great post.

How different would this team have been had they drafted Xavien Howard (CB) and Keith Byard (FS) instead of Burns and Davis.

Obviously, hindsight is 20/20. Howard was too raw/unpolished by everyone’s standards (NFL scouts, draft analysts, people here); so, passing on him made sense. And, Byard wasn’t even on people’s radar. Anyway...

[Shoes]

Meanwhile the rest of us have to work for a living!


Isn't that the truth! :lol:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Great post.

How different would this team have been had they drafted Xavien Howard (CB) and Keith Byard (FS) instead of Burns and Davis.

Obviously, hindsight is 20/20. Howard was too raw/unpolished by everyone’s standards (NFL scouts, draft analysts, people here); so, passing on him made sense. And, Byard wasn’t even on people’s radar. Anyway...

True, but I was still a bit surprised when Vonn Bell was on the board in the 2nd and they took Davis. Bell is no game changer, but I think a better safety than Davis, although could have done a lot worse with guys drafted ahead of that like Sua Cravens, Robert Nkmdiche, Paxton Lynch, Eli Apple

[teegre]

True, but I was still a bit surprised when Vonn Bell was on the board in the 2nd and they took Davis. Bell is no game changer, but I think a better safety than Davis, although could have done a lot worse with guys drafted ahead of that like Sua Cravens, Robert Nkmdiche, Paxton Lynch, Eli Apple

Many on here liked Davis. A good FS who moved to CB... and then struggled. It was a good value (his stock was down). So, draft him, build back up his confidence, and you very well may have a steal. I can’t disagree with the pick. It made a lot of sense.

But, Yes, I never thought Bell would be there when we picked in R2.

[Born2Steel]

Haden, injured but playing, still sticks his nose into the fan to make tackles. Hilton will pop a snot bubble off a ball carrier.(To quote the great Johnny Majors) Steven Nelson is not afraid to mix in and make tackles. Say what you will about Edmunds in coverage but he is a solid tackler. And Minkah Fitzpatrick recorded 5 tackles in his first game. The nucleus of this secondary is a good unit, possibly on the way to great. The depth is a very noticeable dropoff though.

[Edman]

Haden, injured but playing, still sticks his nose into the fan to make tackles. Hilton will pop a snot bubble off a ball carrier.(To quote the great Johnny Majors) Steven Nelson is not afraid to mix in and make tackles. Say what you will about Edmunds in coverage but he is a solid tackler. And Minkah Fitzpatrick recorded 5 tackles in his first game. The nucleus of this secondary is a good unit, possibly on the way to great. The depth is a very noticeable dropoff though.

That has been the Steelers M.O on Defense for years now. A single suit of armor held together by a bolt. One guy goes down and it all falls apart. Even when the Steelers actually had a top defense in the 2004-2010 years, Troy Polamalu held it all together. Whenever Troy was out of the lineup, the Defense regressed to the levels we are seeing now. No seriously, they were quite bad without Troy.

This unit has never had the chance to become a suit or armor. Let's hope Minkah Fitzpatrick is the bolt.

[Mojouw]

That has been the Steelers M.O on Defense for years now. A single suit of armor held together by a bolt. One guy goes down and it all falls apart. Even when the Steelers actually had a top defense in the 2004-2010 years, Troy Polamalu held it all together. Whenever Troy was out of the lineup, the Defense regressed to the levels we are seeing now. No seriously, they were quite bad without Troy.

This unit has never had the chance to become a suit or armor. Let's hope Minkah Fitzpatrick is the bolt.

That and Aaron Smith. Seriously, every time that dude got hurt (which wasn't often) the entire front 7 fell apart.

To be fair, I think most "elite" defenses kinda work like that. You need a handful of really good players and then 1-2 "great" players to put it over the top.

For the current version of the Steelers it was supposed to be Shazier. And if you squinted, you could start to see what that was going to look like. It wasn't going to be the greatest defense ever or anything, but you were going to have a player who could just come up with big-time plays when needed most.

Now, it has to be some combination of Watt, Bush, and MFF. I think that is why I am a fan of getting Fitzpatrick now. He and Bush can experience growing pains together this year, and hopefully hit the ground running in 2020. I think Troy broke out in his 3rd year or so...

[Fire Goodell]

Artie Burns = all physical talent but stupid as hell. Basically Sharko Thomas v2.

Ever wonder why he looks good in the preseason and not the regular season? You need a guy to cover vanilla routes that takes no mental processing at all? He's your man. Need someone to play in an actual NFL scheme, he's not your man.

[pczach]

That and Aaron Smith. Seriously, every time that dude got hurt (which wasn't often) the entire front 7 fell apart.

To be fair, I think most "elite" defenses kinda work like that. You need a handful of really good players and then 1-2 "great" players to put it over the top.

For the current version of the Steelers it was supposed to be Shazier. And if you squinted, you could start to see what that was going to look like. It wasn't going to be the greatest defense ever or anything, but you were going to have a player who could just come up with big-time plays when needed most.

Now, it has to be some combination of Watt, Bush, and MFF. I think that is why I am a fan of getting Fitzpatrick now. He and Bush can experience growing pains together this year, and hopefully hit the ground running in 2020. I think Troy broke out in his 3rd year or so...


That is a great comment about Aaron Smith.

Smith was an animal. He would literally control the running game on his side of the field. He was a huge physical presence and a force that didn't get talked about as often as other players because he didn't put up big sack numbers, but he was prolific in what he provided to the scheme they were running then as a DE in a true, traditional 3-4 as their predominant defense.

I still believe he would have been a dominant DT in a 4-3 scheme. One of the most underrated players I have ever seen IMO.

I still get upset every single time I think about having both Shazier and Watt healthy and playing together at the height of their powers. Those two guys doing what they would be able to do, and then add a guy like Fitzpatrick on the back end and you are talking about dominant playmakers at every level of the defense. That transforms defenses. That transforms teams.

[Born2Steel]

If you look at the roster and separate the players you want to keep and the players you want to just cut, depending on your pessimism level, I think you put 20-25 players on the ‘keep’ list. Not counting the kicker, punter, and LS that’s approximately half this team is just plain bad. We have listed all the 1st round guys on defense but that includes Burns and Barron who are playing like shit, and Alualu who is a backup past his prime. Depending on how you feel about Dupree and Edmunds changes the “1st round guy” narrative too. And one of those 1st round guys is our new rookie ILB.

Why bring this up? Not making excuses for coaches I promise. Just really taking notice this is not an overly talented team. The offensive and defensive nuclei are insanely strong. But the dropoff to the backups is ridiculous. We are discussing whether it would be better to start a 6th round rookie ILB next to our 1st round rookie, OR play Barron who is not playing at full speed out there, OR using Matakevich on actual defensive snaps. VW cannot get healthy soon enough. There is something ailing AV also I have to believe. He does not look as fast or as strong as we should expect. Feiler/Banner have been decent but not great at the other tackle spot but have not looked starter quality. AND let’s not open the rookie QB issues that exaggerates.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Artie Burns = all physical talent but stupid as hell. Basically Sharko Thomas v2.

Ever wonder why he looks good in the preseason and not the regular season? You need a guy to cover vanilla routes that takes no mental processing at all? He's your man. Need someone to play in an actual NFL scheme, he's not your man.Physical talent does not matter when you have a brain the size of a pea. Never thought he had much physical talent and got by on speed. Edmunds looks like a bust to me as well! Maybe not Artie bad though.

[Steeldude]

Artie Burns = all physical talent but stupid as hell. Basically Sharko Thomas v2.

Ever wonder why he looks good in the preseason and not the regular season? You need a guy to cover vanilla routes that takes no mental processing at all? He's your man. Need someone to play in an actual NFL scheme, he's not your man.

Burns has no drive/heart either.

[86WARD]

If you look at the roster and separate the players you want to keep and the players you want to just cut, depending on your pessimism level, I think you put 20-25 players on the ‘keep’ list. Not counting the kicker, punter, and LS that’s approximately half this team is just plain bad. We have listed all the 1st round guys on defense but that includes Burns and Barron who are playing like shit, and Alualu who is a backup past his prime. Depending on how you feel about Dupree and Edmunds changes the “1st round guy” narrative too. And one of those 1st round guys is our new rookie ILB.

Why bring this up? Not making excuses for coaches I promise. Just really taking notice this is not an overly talented team. The offensive and defensive nuclei are insanely strong. But the dropoff to the backups is ridiculous. We are discussing whether it would be better to start a 6th round rookie ILB next to our 1st round rookie, OR play Barron who is not playing at full speed out there, OR using Matakevich on actual defensive snaps. VW cannot get healthy soon enough. There is something ailing AV also I have to believe. He does not look as fast or as strong as we should expect. Feiler/Banner have been decent but not great at the other tackle spot but have not looked starter quality. AND let’s not open the rookie QB issues that exaggerates.

Depth talent had been a problem for a very, very long time and now it is really coming to the forefront because there’s no one graduating from the bench to the starting lineup. So now the starting line up is hurting and the depth is even worse. Players like Vince Williams, Bud Dupree, Terrell Edmunds...those guys are depth players on good teams, starters on bad teams. I’m not sure I could find 22 total players in general that I would want to keep on this team:

Cam Heyawrd
Stephon Tuitt
Javon Hargrove
Joe Haden
Minoan Fitzpatrick
Devin Bush
TJ Watt
Ben Roethlisberger
David DeCastro
Maurkice Pouncey
JuJu Smith-Schuster

That’s pretty much the only players I would protect. Anyone else I could take or leave. I mean if I had to pick 11 more I would start with Villanueva (maybe), James Washington and Diontae Johnson and maybe Ryan Switzer (to annoy Mojouw). Anyone else I would have to be sold on...

[teegre]

re: Aaron Smith

A decade or so ago, when the Chargers had the most talented roster in the NFL, my Chargers buddies (who knew football) would often discuss how much better their team was than the Steelers. They’d go position by position, telling me how much better Charger X was than Steeler Y...

...except, these discussions always started with them saying, “Without debate: let’s go ahead and give the Steelers Troy Polamalu and Aaron Smith.”

Yep :nod: they held Aaron Smith in the same high regard as Troy Polamalu.

[pczach]

re: Aaron Smith

A decade or so ago, when the Chargers had the most talented roster in the NFL, my Chargers buddies (who knew football) would often discuss how much better their team was than the Steelers. They’d go position by position, telling me how much better Charger X was than Steeler Y...

...except, these discussions always started with them saying, “Without debate: let’s go ahead and give the Steelers Troy Polamalu and Aaron Smith.”

Yep :nod: they held Aaron Smith in the same high regard as Troy Polamalu.



If you understand football and had a chance to really watch what Aaron Smith was capable of on the field, it was something to behold.

I remember when they drafted Smith, I was very happy they picked him. When he got his chance and everyone was able to see the affect he had on a game, he was a guy you just pencil in until he can't do it anymore.

I thought he would be very good. I didn't think he would be that​ good. He was absolutely awesome. One of my favorite Steelers ever.

[Mojouw]

So....I’ll put this out there. It will never happen, but I believe Aaron Smith should be in the HOF.

[AtlantaDan]

So....I’ll put this out there. It will never happen, but I believe Aaron Smith should be in the HOF.

In terms of art of the possible maybe the Steelers should induct Smith in their Hall of Honor? Not there yet.

https://www.steelers.com/history/hall-of-honor/

[86WARD]

So....I’ll put this out there. It will never happen, but I believe Aaron Smith should be in the HOF.

Yes!! IMO he may be one of the most underrated, under appreciated, under the radar guys in the history of the NFL. Was one of my favorite players to watch...and even when asked who my favorite players are, I always forget to mention him...lol.

[Shoes]

Yes!! IMO he may be one of the most underrated, under appreciated, under the radar guys in the history of the NFL. Was one of my favorite players to watch...and even when asked who my favorite players are, I always forget to mention him...lol.

Agreed, just a fantastic man and player. I remember a video of John Harbaugh saying it was impossible to block Aaron Smith.

[DesertSteel]

So....I’ll put this out there. It will never happen, but I believe Aaron Smith should be in the HOF.
While I'd have a hard time making the case for HOF, he definitely deserves to be in the ring of honor with other Steeler legends.

[tube517]

While I'd have a hard time making the case for HOF, he definitely deserves to be in the ring of honor with other Steeler legends.

Easy choice for Steelers Hall of Honor

[Born2Steel]

Thread Title....blah blah Artie Burns.

Last Post.... "Easy choice for Steelers Hall of Honor".

Must need some context.

[86WARD]

Thread Title....blah blah Artie Burns.

Last Post.... "Easy choice for Steelers Hall of Honor".

Must need some context.

Lol...

[GoSlash27]

Between Justin Layne, Steve Nelson, and Minkah Fitzpatrick, I think Artie Burns' positions on this team have been obviated. We have people who do everything he does better than he does them. Doesn't leave much reason to keep a "work in progress" on the roster, especially if he's not showing improvement.

[FrancoLambert]

Between Justin Layne, Steve Nelson, and Minkah Fitzpatrick, I think Artie Burns' positions on this team have been obviated. We have people who do everything he does better than he does them. Doesn't leave much reason to keep a "work in progress" on the roster, especially if he's not showing improvement.

Re: Artie Burnt described as a “work in progress.”

Should be “out of order.”

[Hawkman]

Between Justin Layne, Steve Nelson, and Minkah Fitzpatrick, I think Artie Burns' positions on this team have been obviated. We have people who do everything he does better than he does them. Doesn't leave much reason to keep a "work in progress" on the roster, especially if he's not showing improvement.

Nice use of the word “obviate”.

[teegre]

Between Justin Layne, Steve Nelson, and Minkah Fitzpatrick, I think Artie Burns' positions on this team have been obviated. We have people who do everything he does better than he does them. Doesn't leave much reason to keep a "work in progress" on the roster, especially if he's not showing improvement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StIcRH_e6zQ&app=desktop&persist_app=1

[tube517]

Nice use of the word “obviate”.

I thought it said "Ovulate". Had to look twice. :chuckle: