Bench Barron, Start Bush, Promote Gilbert

[teegre]

This is a thread to:
-rant about how much Mark Barron sucks
-evaluate Devin Bush
-pray for Ulysees Gilbert to get playing time

BARRON (& GILBERT):
Barron sucks. Period. I saw him jogging (literally) on several plays, on one in particular, where he could have broken up a reception (had he been running). I’ll take the learning curve with Gilbert, because at least he hustles.

BUSH:
He has looked lost at times. That said, he leads all rookies in tackles and is sixth in the entire NFL. Add to that: two fumble recoveries. SUMMATION: The guy is always around the ball.

[AtlantaDan]

Barron loafing on plays was noted in Ray Fittipaldo’s P-G chat yesterday

Ray,you really need to look at tape of Barron. Some writer did an article and included clips and he was really loafing. I would of cut him right after the game if it was up to me.
Ray Fittipaldo: OK will look at it.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/09/24/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-09-24-19/stories/201909240111

Have not come across the article that allegedly has video of Barron loafing

Maybe it is a conditioning problem? :noidea:

[tube517]

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[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Maybe injuries bugging him again. Still, while I like Gilbert's speed and effort, he isn't a great run stopper. In pass coverage however I think Gilbert is better than Baron and he was very adept at it in college and the East-west shrine game.

[Squeegee Thompson]

Barron jaking it was well-documented, and noticed by everyone between the media, the fans, and the coaches.

I suspect he's having a exceptionally shitty week in the film room with the coaches. If he doesn't come out on Monday night with his hair on fire, he may not get a hat for the rest of the year - ala Moncrete.

[Fire Goodell]

Barron and Moncrief both ended up being scrubs, frustrating since our season's success was hinged on both of them contributing. At least Nelson ended up being pretty good, but 1/3 isn't what we expected

[86WARD]

From Cabily: Under Kevin Colbert, the Steelers made 15 trades from 2000-16 involving a player for a player, a draft pick for a player or player for draft pick. Over the past 25 months, they've made 13 trades like that.

Last 6 months:

-Signs a CB (Steve Nelson) in free agency
-Trades up for Devin Bush
-Trades first round pick for Minkah Fitzpatrick
-Trades for TE Nick Vannett

Lol

[Fire Goodell]

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wtf seriously? I think if he's playing like that we're better off with Dirty Red at LB, Red plays faster than that. I can't tell whether the dude is gassed or just plain lost and doesn't know what to do, either way it's unacceptable.

His new nickname should be Robber Barron, since he basically took the team's money without really doing anything

[Squeegee Thompson]

From Cabily: Under Kevin Colbert, the Steelers made 15 trades from 2000-16 involving a player for a player, a draft pick for a player or player for draft pick. Over the past 25 months, they've made 13 trades like that.

Last 6 months:

-Signs a CB (Steve Nelson) in free agency
-Trades up for Devin Bush
-Trades first round pick for Minkah Fitzpatrick
-Trades for TE Nick Vannett

Lol

Although I normally like it when the front office is aggressive with free agency and the draft, this is starting to reek of desperation. These gambles will either pay off huge, or backfire and cement the team's descent into 'rebuilding mode'.

[Fire Goodell]

Although I normally like it when the front office is aggressive with free agency and the draft, this is starting to reek of desperation. These gambles will either pay off huge, or backfire and cement the team's descent into 'rebuilding mode'.

I'm starting to think it's desperation. Colbert and Tomlin are playing for their jobs right now. Problem is, if these gambles don't pay off (look like they're not), it's likely to hurt us longer than just this one year.

Fitzpatrick trade looks to be a good one so far though.

[Mojouw]

FA is a roll of the dice at best. Players hit the open market for a reason. Typically age, bad production, or a toxic combination of the two.

Barron was signed for basically a one year deal, with a team option if he does well. Same principle as Bostic last season. There was reason to hope that he could come here and have some moderate success. Doesn't appear to be working out through 3 weeks. No big deal. Team cuts him and moves on. Lost basically nothing.

Same with Moncrief.

Sucks these dudes can not contribute, but both were low-risk moves. Additionally, it isn't like someone is not on the roster that would have really made a difference. And no Skipper was not taking Barron's roster spot.

[86WARD]

I still think Moncrief will eventually contribute.

[Born2Steel]

This is a thread to:
-rant about how much Mark Barron sucks
-evaluate Devin Bush
-pray for Ulysees Gilbert to get playing time

BARRON (& GILBERT):
Barron sucks. Period. I saw him jogging (literally) on several plays, on one in particular, where he could have broken up a reception (had he been running). I’ll take the learning curve with Gilbert, because at least he hustles.

BUSH:
He has looked lost at times. That said, he leads all rookies in tackles and is sixth in the entire NFL. Add to that: two fumble recoveries. SUMMATION: The guy is always around the ball.

Agree with this.

I missed the bullet point “Turn thread into about Moncreif” somewhere though. I understand Gilbert will get schemed out of play after play. But at least he will be hustling to the ball. Bush and Gilbert have to hold this down until VW gets back. What is the latest on him btw?

[Shoes]

I still think Moncrief will eventually contribute.

Yeah then in a big game he flashes back to I can't catch. No thanks

[st33lersguy]

Mark Barron, yet another major free agent flop signed by the front office in the last 6 years. It's pretty sad that useless players who do nothing or actively hurt the team while on the field has been the norm among players signed in free agency or traded for the last few years. It's so sad that Mike Mitchell probably ranks as one of the 5 best offseason acquisitions from other teams in the last few years.

[BlackAndGold]

Mark Barron, yet another major free agent flop signed by the front office in the last 6 years. It's pretty sad that useless players who do nothing or actively hurt the team while on the field has been the norm among players signed in free agency or traded for the last few years. It's so sad that Mike Mitchell probably ranks as one of the 5 best offseason acquisitions from other teams in the last few years.

Mark Barron is not a major signing.

Steven Nelson was the major signing and he's been playing excellent. Barron is the a example of going dumpster diving(gotta fill the roster out) in free agency.

[teegre]

1176185516443783169

YES!!! That is the exact play to which I was referring!!!

As the play unfolded, I saw the ball heading to where Barron would have been (had he been running). My thought was: “INT... or, at worst, he’ll bat down the pass.”

Then, it appeared as though Barron stopped/slowed down... and I was like: “WTF are you doing!?!”

[86WARD]

Barron signing was (ironically because it’s the Rams) the same kind of signing as Mike Jones. You kinda liked it because you knew the name and kinda convinced yourself that it was a good signing, a major signing, because you kinda convinced yourself that he could fill the need and you kinda thought he had the talent which he didn’t really have but hey, he made a couple big tackles, so he must be good. Turns out it was a very minor signing, a shot in the dark and pretty much a wasted signing...

[teegre]

I understand Gilbert will get schemed out of play after play. But at least he will be hustling to the ball. Bush and Gilbert have to hold this down until VW gets back.

This x 1000 :nod:

[AtlantaDan]

The linked paywalled article by Bouchette in The Athletic, in which Bouchette predicts the Bengals tight ends are likely to be the latest TEs to torch the Steelers, includes this observation by Chris Hoke on the skills, or lack thereof, of Mr. Barron

Former Steelers defensive lineman Chris Hoke has been analyzing them for several years on TV and radio in town. Thursday, on 93.7 The Fan, he said their inside linebackers were not getting the job done and cited Barron specifically.

“He’s not an inside linebacker; he’s a safety,’’ Hoke said.

https://theathletic.com/1245093/2019/09/27/with-two-tight-ends-the-bengals-can-expose-a-vulnerable-steelers-defense/

[BlackAndGold]

LJ Fort was cut by the Eagles. Will be interesting to see if the Steelers bring him back.


Also, Fort getting cut prevents the Steelers from getting a 3rd round comp pick, unless....they cut Moncrief.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/be6baa630943758763ec5cb8d7df733b/tenor.gif?itemid=5575053

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This x 1000 :nod:

Honestly, if they are gonna bench Barron, then I'd go with Dirty Red on 1st down, Gilbert on 2nd and 3rd unless they go with just one LB on the field. Gilbert can play in space in the pass game and cover man to man, but unless he has improved a lot, his run defending isn't varsity IMO.

[pczach]

Honestly, if they are gonna bench Barron, then I'd go with Dirty Red on 1st down, Gilbert on 2nd and 3rd unless they go with just one LB on the field. Gilbert can play in space in the pass game and cover man to man, but unless he has improved a lot, his run defending isn't varsity IMO.



I see what you're saying.

I still believe they would be giving up more with Dirty Red on the field. Offenses would be targeting him with first down play action and short controlled passes to take advantage of him. I would prefer to see what Gilbert can do. I don't pretend to know how well he would hold up if he is pressed to fill and tackle when they are running right at him or when an OL gets on top of him. I do think they can jump around at the LOS to confuse the blocking assignments if Butler gets a little creative. I also know that can lead to a big run occasionally, but it would be great to see this team get more creative schematically and more athletic. Also, what you may lose against power blocking schemes and inside presence, you gain with pursuit against the outside running game and superior coverage with potential for big plays against the passing game.

I believe in playmakers. If they can find another one, that would be huuuuuge.

If they move away from Barron, I'm sure they will probably use both Dirty Red and Gilbert. The results should decide what they do going forward. Gilbert hasn't had a lot of experience, and will see some things he hasn't seen before.

It will be very interesting to see how it plays out.

[Dwinsgames]

LJ Fort was cut by the Eagles. Will be interesting to see if the Steelers bring him back.


Also, Fort getting cut prevents the Steelers from getting a 3rd round comp pick, unless....they cut Moncrief.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/be6baa630943758763ec5cb8d7df733b/tenor.gif?itemid=5575053


not sure how you are so sure about the secret formula ..... secret formula = how they determine who gets what for comp picks

since it is signings vs losses .... with rumored play time and post season honors as a wild card in the " formula" but like Bush Baked beans nobody really has seen the formula

Forte was signed ..... just cut but after the season started ....

[BlackAndGold]

not sure how you are so sure about the secret formula ..... secret formula = how they determine who gets what for comp picks

since it is signings vs losses .... with rumored play time and post season honors as a wild card in the " formula" but like Bush Baked beans nobody really has seen the formula

Forte was signed ..... just cut but after the season started ....

I'm just going with the people who follow this stuff closely. Unless Moncrief is cut they'll still get a pick for losing Bell but won't be high as a 3rd rounder it seems.

He works but 'OverTheCap'
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[FrancoLambert]

So, promoting Dirty Red to the starting defense and re-signing LJ Fort will improve our defense.
Think about that and what it says about the state of our team.

[Dwinsgames]

I'm just going with the people who follow this stuff closely. Unless Moncrief is cut they'll still get a pick for losing Bell but won't be high as a 3rd rounder it seems.

He works but 'OverTheCap'
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not sure I buy into this talk ...

considering I have always been from the school of thought that the formula was signings of your own vs losses to others during the free agency period . not during the season and cuts didnt factor into it ....

I believe these guys are over thinking it on a slow news day

- - - Updated - - -


not sure I buy into this talk ...

considering I have always been from the school of thought that the formula was signings of your own vs losses to others during the free agency period . not during the season and cuts didnt factor into it ....

I believe these guys are over thinking it on a slow news day

no clue why my reply went inside the box ....
not sure I buy into this talk ...

considering I have always been from the school of thought that the formula was signings of your own vs losses to others during the free agency period . not during the season and cuts didnt factor into it ....

I believe these guys are over thinking it on a slow news day

[teegre]

Honestly, if they are gonna bench Barron, then I'd go with Dirty Red on 1st down, Gilbert on 2nd and 3rd unless they go with just one LB on the field. Gilbert can play in space in the pass game and cover man to man, but unless he has improved a lot, his run defending isn't varsity IMO.

Dirty Red :scared:

Honest question: Is Barron any better at run-stopping than Gilbert?

My thinking is: If Barron is indeed better at run-stopping, it’s not by much... and certainly not bigger than Gilbert’s improvement in play on pass defense. In other words, there’d be a slight drop off in run defense, but a significant improvement in pass defense.

Also, if the opposing team sees Red on the field, the opposing QB would audible to a passing play every time.

[pczach]

not sure I buy into this talk ...

considering I have always been from the school of thought that the formula was signings of your own vs losses to others during the free agency period . not during the season and cuts didnt factor into it ....

I believe these guys are over thinking it on a slow news day

- - - Updated - - -



no clue why my reply went inside the box ....
not sure I buy into this talk ...

considering I have always been from the school of thought that the formula was signings of your own vs losses to others during the free agency period . not during the season and cuts didnt factor into it ....

I believe these guys are over thinking it on a slow news day



Replies go into the box whenever a tweet is involved and quoted for some reason. It does it to me all the time.

Nice to see you around again.:thumbsup:

[pczach]

Dirty Red :scared:

Honest question: Is Barron any better at run-stopping than Gilbert?

My thinking is: If Barron is indeed better at run-stopping, it’s not by much... and certainly not bigger than Gilbert’s improvement in play on pass defense. In other words, there’d be a slight drop off in run defense, but a significant improvement in pass defense.

Also, if the opposing team sees Red on the field, the opposing QB would audible to a passing play every time.


I can't be sure if Barron is better than Gilbert against the run in this scheme. When you watch Barron play, his effort seems to suggest that he's hurt. At least I hope he's hurt with the way he is moving around the field.

If he isn't hurt, then I see no good reason why Gilbert shouldn't be in there. As I stated above, Dirty Red doesn't have the speed to play inside out and get to the outside running game. He struggles in space on swing passes to the RB's. He struggles in coverage. The coaching staff may be thinking about playing Dirty Red because he knows the playbook and won't be fooled like a more inexperienced Gilbert would.

I say play Gilbert and live with some mistakes. They need to see what Gilbert can do, because they already know what Matakevich can't do.....and it's a lot. At least they'll learn what Gilbert is capable of, and they just might find a big upgrade and a player that can make some splash plays.

In my opinion, it's easier to cover up a weakness in the run defense than it is in pass defense. and I'm not so sure that Matakevich is any better than him in that aspect of the game. I love his effort, but he hasn't shown me that he is capable of holding up and probably wouldn't be on the roster if not for special teams......so let him just play special teams. :heh:

[st33lersguy]

I'm just going with the people who follow this stuff closely. Unless Moncrief is cut they'll still get a pick for losing Bell but won't be high as a 3rd rounder it seems.

He works but 'OverTheCap'
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Cut Moncrief like now, he is actively hurting the team and this team needs more than 1(!) pick in the top 100

[Six Rings]

I'd list Barron's time and give a few Gilbert a chance on 1st or 2nd down and short, but not 3rd and long.