Mason/Armstrength (Decluttering other Threads)

[Craic]

So, I didn't want to clutter the thread on Minkah being a Steelers with a discussion of Mason R.'s arm strength. But, a couple of people had posted they had read the opposite or that they didn't see it in what they read. So, I wanted to respond here. The first quote below is simply velocity as measured by a radar gun/computer chip at the NFL combine for QBs 2008-19. No, that's not really "football" but it also gives a window for how well a person can throw a ball. Yes, they can get better, but often because of mechanics and Mason already has good mechanics, so that won't help.

The rest are various links to articles. I include them here only to show I'm not the only one that questions his arm strength. Moreover, even in some articles that say he has decent or even good arm strength, they contradict themselves in the vary next sentence by saying he will throw the long ball short or struggles to hit sideline routes.

Note: I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength. however, it is one of the factors that can limit production and make it so that you have to be over-the-top good in other areas to overcome it. In short, it's the major reason I'm weary of him as a starting QB and think we will be looking for another one in a year or two. If it turns out he is good enough in enough areas to overcome this issue, then I'll be as happy as anyone.



Velocity on throws, NFL combine 2008-19
Josh AllenWyoming62

Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech, Bills (TE) - 60
Bryan Bennet, SE Louisiana, CFL- 60
Pat Mahomes, Texas Tech, Chiefs- 60
Baker MayfieldOklahoma, Browns60

Davis Webb, California, Jets- 59
Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State, free agent– 59
Colin Kaepernick, Nevada, free agent- 59
Kirk Cousins, Michigan State, Vikings- 59
Zac Dysert, Miami (OH), free agent- 59
Tyler Bray, Tennessee, Bears- 59
Stephen Morris, Miami, free agent- 59
Paxton Lynch, Memphis, Seahawks- 59

Jared Goff, California, Rams - 58
Ryan Mallett, Arkansas, free agent- 58
Austin Davis, Southern Mississippi, free agent- 58

Carson Wentz, North Dakota State, Eagles - 57
Nick Foles, Arizona, Jaguars- 57
Mark Sanchez, USC, free agent- 57
Josh Freeman, Kansas State, Free Agent - 57
Chase Daniels, Missouri, Bears- 57
Chandler Harnish, Northern Illinois, free agent- 57
Tom Savage, Pittsburgh, free agent- 57
Sean Mannion, Oregon State, free agent- 57
Brandon Bridge, South Alabama, free agent - 57

DeShon Kizer, Notre Dame, Packers- 56
Andy Dalton, TCU, Bengals - 56
Cam Newton, Auburn, Panthers - 56
Colt McCoy, Texas, Redskins- 56
Ryan Nassib, Syracuse, free agent– 56
Curtis Painter, Purdue, free agent- 56
Brad Sorensen, Southern Utah, free agent - 56
Patrick Devlin, Delaware, free agent- 56
Josh Woodrum, Liberty, free agent- 56
Blake Bortles, Central Florida, Rams- 56
Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois, 49ers- 56
Marcus Mariota, Oregon, Titans - 56
Jacoby Brissett, North Carolina State, Colts- 56
Jeff Mathews, Cornell, free agent - 56
Keith Wenning, Ball State, Giants - 56
Joel Stave, Wisconsin, Chiefs - 56
Christian Hackenberg, Penn State, free agent- 56
Anthony Boone, Duke, free agent - 56

Mitchell Trubisky, North Carolina, Bears- 55
Jerod Evans, Virginia Tech, TBD - 55
Trevor Knight, Texan A&M, AAF- 55
Jameis Winston, Florida State, Buccaneers - 55
Joe Flacco, Delaware, Broncos- 55
Geno Smith, West Virginia, Chargers- 55
CJ Beathard, Iowa, 49ers- 55
Trevon Boykin, TCU, Seahawks - 55
Russell Wilson, Wisconsin, Seahawks - 55
Brandon Allen, Arkansas, Jaguars - 55
Cody Kessler, USC, Browns - 55
Cody Fajardo, Nevada, free agent - 55
Jordan Lynch, Northern Illinois, free agent - 55
Casey Keenum, Houston, Redskins- 55
Tyler Wilson, Arkansas, free agent - 55​
Scott Tolzien, Wisconsin, free agent- 55

Dak Prescott, Mississippi State, Cowboys - 54
Tajh Boyd, Clemson, free agent - 54
Bryn Renner, North Carolina, free agent - 54
Nate Sudfeld, Indiana, Eagles- 54
Jake Locker, Washington, free agent- 54
EJ Manuel, Florida State, Chiefs- 54
Matthew Scott, Arizona, free agent - 54

Nathan Peterman, Pittsburgh, Raiders- 53
Brad Kaaya, Miami, Bengals- 53
David Fales, San Jose State, free agent- 53
AJ McCarron, Alabama, free agent- 53
Brett Hundley, UCLA, Cardinals- 53
Kevin Hogan, Stanford, free agent- 53
Brandon Doughty, Western Kentucky, free agent- 53
Vernon Adams, Oregon, free agent - 53
Mitch Leidner, Minnesota, TBD - 53
Bryce Petty, Baylor, free agent- 53
Dustin Vaughan, West Texas A&M, free agent- 53
Landry Jones, Oklahoma, free agent- 53
Chad Henne, Michigan, Chiefs- 53
Stephen McGee, Texas A & M - 53



Mason Rudolph Oklahoma State 52)
Shane Carden, Eastern Carolina, free agent, 52
Jeff Driskel, Louisiana Tech, Bengals - 52
Seth Russell, Baylor, TBD - 52
Graham Harrell, Texas Tech, free agent - 52
Pat White, West Virginia, free agent - 52
Kellen Moore, Boise State, coaching- 52
TJ Yates, North Carolina, free agent - 52
Michael Kafka, Northwestern, free agent - 52
Zac Robinson, Oklahoma St., free agent - 52
Ryan Lindley, San Diego State, free agent - 52

Josh Dobbs, Tennessee, Steelers-51
Jerry Lovelocke, Praire View A&M, free agent - 51
Christian Ponder, Florida St, free agent - 51
Colby Cameron, Louisiana Tech, free agent - 51

Matt Flynn, LSU, free agent -- 50
John Skelton, Fordham, free agent - 50
Ricky Stanzi, Iowa, free agent - 50
Tyrod Taylor, Va Tech, Chargers- 50
Connor Cook, Michigan, free agent- 50
Connor Shaw, South Carolina, free agent- 50
Nick Marshall, Auburn, free agent- 50

Deshaun Watson, Clemson, Texans- 49
Michael Glennon, North Carolina State, Raiders- 49
Josh Johnson, San Diego, Redskins- 49
Sefo Liufau, Colorado, TBD - 46
Cooper Rush, Central Michigan, Cowboys- 46
Blake Sims, Alabama, free agent - 42




While I don't know this for sure, this category represents why I believe Rudolph slipped to the third round of the 2018 Draft. He doesn't have a howitzer for an arm. In fact, calling it below-average isn't crazy. In the 2018 class, I ranked the attributes of all the top quarterback prospects before the draft (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-rankings-accuracy-arm-strength-and-everything-to-know-about-qbs/) and placing Rudolph last in arm strength was an easy decision.

He has a decently quick, over-the-top release and stands nearly 6-foot-5 while weighing around 235-240 pounds, but does not possess the typical arm strength we see in the NFL from quarterbacks with sound throwing fundamentals and a large frame. At times the football loses steam on long throws from the far hash mark or just doesn't have enough juice on heaves down the field. While he can throw with anticipation, Rudolph's lack of a huge arm can get him into trouble at times, particularly on out-breaking passes in which the timing with his receiver isn't perfect. However, his arm doesn't stop him from being aggressive down the field, and on most "downfield" throws, Rudolph's arm strength does not hinder his long-ball production. Link (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ben-roethlisberger-injured-full-mason-rudolph-scouting-report-what-you-need-to-know-about-steelers-starter/)




But, similar to his time in Stillwater, the numbers are far more impressive than what Rudolph actually put on tape. Even that play above, which clearly wasn’t on the quarterback, shows his limitations as a passer. Despite his size — 6-foot-5, 235 pounds — Rudolph does not have a strong arm, and you can see it on that throw. On the play above, he couldn’t drive a ten-yard stop route to the perimeter, which is something, you’d hope, every legitimate starting NFL quarterback can do — especially one you’re touting as the future.Link (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/mason-rudolph-steelers-future-scouting-report)


There is a misconception about Rudolph that he must be a power thrower because he is a big, strong quarterback who operates almost entirely out of the pocket. In fact, his arm strength is a little below average for an NFL starter. Rudolph doesn’t have a bad arm, but it doesn’t come close to Roethlisberger’s. We will see this most when Rudolph’s feet are not set and he is forced to throw off-platform. This could be a problem when the weather inevitably gets rough in Pittsburgh and at AFC North road games. We really don’t know how well Rudolph handles poor weather, something Roethlisberger excelled at throughout his career. Link (https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/scouts_take_assessing_steelers_starting_qb_mason_r udolph/s1_13132_30013748)




Rudolph has a decent arm that’s probably good enough to play in the NFL, but he’d benefit from strengthening exercises or from playing in a dome. Even when he puts his whole body into the follow-through, an opposite-hash fifteen-yard out will start to hang in the air. Link (https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/4/18/17249998/mason-rudolph-scouting-report-2018-nfl-draft-film-analysis-ball-placement-arm-strength-anticipation)

When Rudolph throws an inaccurate pass, look at his feet. He “steps toward third base” a little too often. He can improve his already adequate accuracy by working on setting his feet and stepping into throws. He just has average arm strength. He could do a better job of not staring at his receivers. Link (http://When Rudolph throws an inaccurate pass, look at his feet. He “steps toward third base” a little too often. He can improve his already adequate accuracy by working on setting his feet and stepping into throws. He just has average arm strength. He could do a better job of not staring at his receivers.)


Another prevalent criticism facing Rudolph is that, for all his measurables, he lacks elite velocity and arm strength. But he says those worries haven't come up much in meetings — and that arm strength apparently isn’t as coveted in the NFL as many think. Link (https://sports.yahoo.com/mason-rudolph-waiting-prove-critics-201345523.html)




Mason Rudolph (https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/mason-rudolph/)P does not have great throwing velocity but that does not necessarily mean he won’t be able to be successful in the NFL. There are many great quarterbacks who are still around today that did not throw the ball fast at the combine. Link (https://www.playerprofiler.com/article/mason-rudolph-advanced-stats-metrics-analytics-profile/)

[BnG_Hevn]

Deshaun Watson puts that argument to rest.

Deshaun Watson, Clemson, Texans- 49

[Squeegee Thompson]

Joe Flacco, Delaware, Broncos- 55

This also shows how silly that metric is. Flacco had an absolute cannon when he came out of college. I remember him winning that rookie QB skills competition by throwing the ball some 75-odd yards in the air. I'll bet his true velocity was much higher than that.

[DesertSteel]

Deshaun Watson puts that argument to rest.

Deshaun Watson, Clemson, Texans- 49
Exactly! I'm not sure why there's a need to try to tear this guy down. He will prove on the field what he is and isn't. Last Sunday didn't show me one way or the other. More evidence is coming Sunday, but that list adds nothing relevant to the discussion.

[Mach1]

Exactly! I'm not sure why there's a need to try to tear this guy down. He will prove on the field what he is and isn't. Last Sunday didn't show me one way or the other. More evidence is coming Sunday, but that list adds nothing relevant to the discussion.

Haters gonna hate.

[AtlantaDan]

FWIW Rudolph was proactive and sought out coaching this past offseason to improve his throwing. He was not going to get a lot of hands on coaching in house since the Steelers regard Fichtner as skilled enough to handle both OC and QB coach duties - open to suggestions how the Steelers justify that decision.

Without the benefit of a dedicated quarterbacks coach like many of his peers around the NFL enjoy, Rudolph has been forced to take it upon himself to find help with his game from outside the organization (https://theathletic.com/1003174/2019/05/30/the-throwing-doctor-helped-mason-rudolph-and-its-showing-this-spring/).
Working under the tutelage of Tom House, a former major-league pitcher known as “The Throwing Doctor,” the second-year player is reportedly looking even stronger at OTAs this offseason.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/6/8/18657733/steelers-quarterback-mason-rudolph-looking-to-make-huge-strides-for-his-rookie-season-nfl-news

Who better than House to help Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph with throwing the football? ... His clients have included Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan and more. On the baseball side, his headliners are Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson and Orel Hershiser....

People notice that Rudolph’s solid right arm seems to have gotten stronger since last year and so has his movement around the pocket. Rudolph credits House and his assistant Adam Dedeaux at 3DQB, their company in Huntington Beach, Calif.


https://theathletic.com/1003174/2019/05/30/the-throwing-doctor-helped-mason-rudolph-and-its-showing-this-spring/

[Shoes]

Well Mason is in good company because Drew Bree's is/was right at 52 also...and about 5" shorter than Mason :chuckle:


This sound like what some folks were saying aboutT J Watt after reading articles and watching film

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Exactly! I'm not sure why there's a need to try to tear this guy down. He will prove on the field what he is and isn't. Last Sunday didn't show me one way or the other. More evidence is coming Sunday, but that list adds nothing relevant to the discussion. Steelers play Monday Night.:nervous:

[Fire Goodell]

Mason's arm looked fine on Sunday, he just needs to hit his targets. His ball placement was what was lacking on a lot of throws

[86WARD]

That velocity/arm strength chart doesn’t hold much weight. Accuracy, touch and the ability to just find the open receiver far outweigh someone who can throw the balm with velocity.

[Fire Goodell]

That velocity/arm strength chart doesn’t hold much weight. Accuracy, touch and the ability to just find the open receiver far outweigh someone who can throw the balm with velocity.

Agree, Kordell Stewart could throw some missiles but they were often way off target

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

That velocity/arm strength chart doesn’t hold much weight. Accuracy, touch and the ability to just find the open receiver far outweigh someone who can throw the balm with velocity. Yep if arm strength meant anything then Jeff George would be in the HOF.

[DesertSteel]

Quick.... somebody in the Steelers front office needs to call up Logan Thomas and sign him now.

[pczach]

Exactly! I'm not sure why there's a need to try to tear this guy down. He will prove on the field what he is and isn't. Last Sunday didn't show me one way or the other. More evidence is coming Sunday, but that list adds nothing relevant to the discussion.


I agree.

I don't understand why people want to tear anybody down. There are people here that are always trying to tear down Ben. Now people are looking to tear down Rudolph.

Why can't we just watch the kid play and develop before we make a final determination?

I just don't get it. I'm as big a fan of Big Ben as anybody, but I'm rooting like crazy for Rudolph to be great. Let's give him some time.

[Craic]

Deshaun Watson puts that argument to rest.

Deshaun Watson, Clemson, Texans- 49
Nope. It means nothing as I wasn't arguing arm strength is any kind of indicator of a great football player. I was arguing . . . ah, screw it. Read one of the other 5 almost exact same responses I just gave below.


Exactly! I'm not sure why there's a need to try to tear this guy down. He will prove on the field what he is and isn't. Last Sunday didn't show me one way or the other. More evidence is coming Sunday, but that list adds nothing relevant to the discussion.
Well, had you read the context of the post then it would have added much to the discussion. 1. Someone said they hadn't read anything about concerns on arm strength. 2. I posted both concerns, and a list showing why they may have had them.

Really. That's it. I love all the "tearing this guy down" crap going on here. So, let me post again from my OP. "I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength. however, it is one of the factors that can limit production and make it so that you have to be over-the-top good in other areas to overcome it. In short, it's the major reason I'm weary of him as a starting QB and think we will be looking for another one in a year or two. If it turns out he is good enough in enough areas to overcome this issue, then I'll be as happy as anyone."

There's a difference between debate and tearing someone down.


Haters gonna hate.

I guess I'm a hater because I'm simply posting a response to someone that there were write ups about arm strength and also showed that they might be accurate. As with several others, I guess you missed this: "ote: I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength. however, it is one of the factors that can limit production and make it so that you have to be over-the-top good in other areas to overcome it. In short, it's the major reason I'm weary of him as a starting QB and think we will be looking for another one in a year or two. If it turns out he is good enough in enough areas to overcome this issue, then I'll be as happy as anyone."

Just because someone questions someone one part of a player's game really means they're hating? Come on.


FWIW Rudolph was proactive and sought out coaching this past offseason to improve his throwing. He was not going to get a lot of hands on coaching in house since the Steelers regard Fichtner as skilled enough to handle both OC and QB coach duties - open to suggestions how the Steelers justify that decision.

Without the benefit of a dedicated quarterbacks coach like many of his peers around the NFL enjoy, Rudolph has been forced to take it upon himself to find help with his game from outside the organization (https://theathletic.com/1003174/2019/05/30/the-throwing-doctor-helped-mason-rudolph-and-its-showing-this-spring/).
Working under the tutelage of Tom House, a former major-league pitcher known as “The Throwing Doctor,” the second-year player is reportedly looking even stronger at OTAs this offseason.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/6/8/18657733/steelers-quarterback-mason-rudolph-looking-to-make-huge-strides-for-his-rookie-season-nfl-news

Who better than House to help Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph with throwing the football? ... His clients have included Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan and more. On the baseball side, his headliners are Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson and Orel Hershiser....

People notice that Rudolph’s solid right arm seems to have gotten stronger since last year and so has his movement around the pocket. Rudolph credits House and his assistant Adam Dedeaux at 3DQB, their company in Huntington Beach, Calif.


Mmm Hmmm. Not surprising. And my guess is he'll keep working on it. At least, I really hope so.


That velocity/arm strength chart doesn’t hold much weight. Accuracy, touch and the ability to just find the open receiver far outweigh someone who can throw the balm with velocity.
Hmm. Sounds familiar. (From my OP) "I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength."

This post was really just a response to your post in another thread stating you hadn't read anything about concerns with arm strength. I was just showing where I had read there was and also providing some comparisons.


Quick.... somebody in the Steelers front office needs to call up Logan Thomas and sign him now.
And. . . why would that be? In fact, how does that make any sense at all? Perhaps, you skipped the first part of my post. "a couple of people had posted they had read the opposite or that they didn't see [concerns about arm strength] in what they read. So, I wanted to respond here." Of course, it seems you also missed my last paragraph. " not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength."

And, that's sorta concerning seeing as I only had three paragraphs.


I agree.

I don't understand why people want to tear anybody down. There are people here that are always trying to tear down Ben. Now people are looking to tear down Rudolph.

Why can't we just watch the kid play and develop before we make a final determination?

I just don't get it. I'm as big a fan of Big Ben as anybody, but I'm rooting like crazy for Rudolph to be great. Let's give him some time.

??? Who is tearing him down? Did I not say "Note: I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength. however, it is one of the factors that can limit production and make it so that you have to be over-the-top good in other areas to overcome it. In short, it's the major reason I'm weary of him as a starting QB and think we will be looking for another one in a year or two. If it turns out he is good enough in enough areas to overcome this issue, then I'll be as happy as anyone."

[pczach]

Nope. It means nothing as I wasn't arguing arm strength is any kind of indicator of a great football player. I was arguing . . . ah, screw it. Read one of the other 5 almost exact same responses I just gave below.


Well, had you read the context of the post then it would have added much to the discussion. 1. Someone said they hadn't read anything about concerns on arm strength. 2. I posted both concerns, and a list showing why they may have had them.

Really. That's it. I love all the "tearing this guy down" crap going on here. So, let me post again from my OP. "I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength. however, it is one of the factors that can limit production and make it so that you have to be over-the-top good in other areas to overcome it. In short, it's the major reason I'm weary of him as a starting QB and think we will be looking for another one in a year or two. If it turns out he is good enough in enough areas to overcome this issue, then I'll be as happy as anyone."

There's a difference between debate and tearing someone down.



I guess I'm a hater because I'm simply posting a response to someone that there were write ups about arm strength and also showed that they might be accurate. As with several others, I guess you missed this: "ote: I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength. however, it is one of the factors that can limit production and make it so that you have to be over-the-top good in other areas to overcome it. In short, it's the major reason I'm weary of him as a starting QB and think we will be looking for another one in a year or two. If it turns out he is good enough in enough areas to overcome this issue, then I'll be as happy as anyone."

Just because someone questions someone one part of a player's game really means they're hating? Come on.



Mmm Hmmm. Not surprising. And my guess is he'll keep working on it. At least, I really hope so.


Hmm. Sounds familiar. (From my OP) "I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength."

This post was really just a response to your post in another thread stating you hadn't read anything about concerns with arm strength. I was just showing where I had read there was and also providing some comparisons.


And. . . why would that be? In fact, how does that make any sense at all? Perhaps, you skipped the first part of my post. "a couple of people had posted they had read the opposite or that they didn't see [concerns about arm strength] in what they read. So, I wanted to respond here." Of course, it seems you also missed my last paragraph. " not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength."

And, that's sorta concerning seeing as I only had three paragraphs.



??? Who is tearing him down? Did I not say "Note: I'm not declaring him a failure or even that he sucks. Arm strength isn't the be-all-end-all in the NFL. It is one of a variety of tools and good QBs do not necessarily need arm strength. however, it is one of the factors that can limit production and make it so that you have to be over-the-top good in other areas to overcome it. In short, it's the major reason I'm weary of him as a starting QB and think we will be looking for another one in a year or two. If it turns out he is good enough in enough areas to overcome this issue, then I'll be as happy as anyone."






I wasn't responding to you. I was responding directly to Desert Steel. If you look around, you will read posts of people knocking his arm strength, saying he doesn't have it, won't ever be a good quarterback, he's not Ben, etc....

I wasn't even thinking about your post when I wrote that. I just wanted to post some encouragement and support for the guy.

I just wanted to clarify that I don't think you are tearing Rudolph down.

In another thread, I quoted another poster and when after a group of people here. That didn't go over very well, and it came off as if I was attacking him individually.

In this thread I posted a comment quoting an individual that I was strictly doing to support a player and hopefully get people to give the kid a chance to play to see what he could really do. Again, apparently it came off as if I was going after you. That wasn't my intent.

Sorry

Life on a message board can be difficult at times.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Exactly! I'm not sure why there's a need to try to tear this guy down. He will prove on the field what he is and isn't. Last Sunday didn't show me one way or the other. More evidence is coming Sunday, but that list adds nothing relevant to the discussion.

It is because for some fans, any positivity-hope or optimism for the backup QB is a sign that the support of Rudolph equates to hate of Ben. I don't think that way, but it appears to me that there is some sensitivity to the potential that Ben's career with the Steelers is on the decline.

- - - Updated - - -


FWIW Rudolph was proactive and sought out coaching this past offseason to improve his throwing. He was not going to get a lot of hands on coaching in house since the Steelers regard Fichtner as skilled enough to handle both OC and QB coach duties - open to suggestions how the Steelers justify that decision.

Without the benefit of a dedicated quarterbacks coach like many of his peers around the NFL enjoy, Rudolph has been forced to take it upon himself to find help with his game from outside the organization (https://theathletic.com/1003174/2019/05/30/the-throwing-doctor-helped-mason-rudolph-and-its-showing-this-spring/).
Working under the tutelage of Tom House, a former major-league pitcher known as “The Throwing Doctor,” the second-year player is reportedly looking even stronger at OTAs this offseason.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/6/8/18657733/steelers-quarterback-mason-rudolph-looking-to-make-huge-strides-for-his-rookie-season-nfl-news

Who better than House to help Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph with throwing the football? ... His clients have included Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan and more. On the baseball side, his headliners are Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson and Orel Hershiser....

People notice that Rudolph’s solid right arm seems to have gotten stronger since last year and so has his movement around the pocket. Rudolph credits House and his assistant Adam Dedeaux at 3DQB, their company in Huntington Beach, Calif.


https://theathletic.com/1003174/2019/05/30/the-throwing-doctor-helped-mason-rudolph-and-its-showing-this-spring/

Good find. I heard Tunch mention Rudolph working on his footwork in the offseason and improved footwork can also help with velocity and accuracy.

[DesertSteel]

If “it means nothing” like you said in your second post then I don’t understand the need to start a thread about it other than for negativity. It’s not like I’m the only one who read it that way.

[Craic]

I wasn't responding to you. I was responding directly to Desert Steel. If you look around, you will read posts of people knocking his arm strength, saying he doesn't have it, won't ever be a good quarterback, he's not Ben, etc....

I wasn't even thinking about your post when I wrote that. I just wanted to post some encouragement and support for the guy.

I just wanted to clarify that I don't think you are tearing Rudolph down.

In another thread, I quoted another poster and when after a group of people here. That didn't go over very well, and it came off as if I was attacking him individually.

In this thread I posted a comment quoting an individual that I was strictly doing to support a player and hopefully get people to give the kid a chance to play to see what he could really do. Again, apparently it came off as if I was going after you. That wasn't my intent.

Sorry

Life on a message board can be difficult at times.
LOL. First world problems, eh? Thanks for the clarification and sorry I took your post out of context.

It is because for some fans, any positivity-hope or optimism for the backup QB is a sign that the support of Rudolph equates to hate of Ben. I don't think that way, but it appears to me that there is some sensitivity to the potential that Ben's career with the Steelers is on the decline.

- - - Updated - - -



Good find. I heard Tunch mention Rudolph working on his footwork in the offseason and improved footwork can also help with velocity and accuracy.
Perhaps. I've been wondering how long he'll stay around. Part of me hopes he comes back and does well. Part of me is ready to move on.

If “it means nothing” like you said in your second post then I don’t understand the need to start a thread about it other than for negativity. It’s not like I’m the only one who read it that way.
Looking the follow ups to my second post, it seems not that many do see it that way. The purpose of my post was not to derail a thread about Minkah being traded to the Steelers while answering a question from another poster about what been reported by others. In short, that there had been people writing about concerns on arm strength.

[Born2Steel]

What were the knocks on Rudolph pre-draft? Has he cleaned up most or any of that? I think so. I would LOVE to see the Steelers go 40-50 passes against the Bengals Monday. With at least 20-25 of them going over 15yards in the air. Johnson can get open. JuJu and Wash have made a name for themselves getting those 50/50 balls. The OL pass blocks better than most in the league. Our RBs are excellent pass catchers out of the backfield. This is a game where the Steelers need to get out to a good lead early before the D gets gassed in the 4th qtr. Only way I see to do that is with splash plays early and often. I think this plan plays to the strength of Rudolph and this offense.

[DesertSteel]

I’d rather die by the sword than go conservative again. Backups in Jax and Carolina are lighting it up.

[Craic]

What were the knocks on Rudolph pre-draft? Has he cleaned up most or any of that? I think so. I would LOVE to see the Steelers go 40-50 passes against the Bengals Monday. With at least 20-25 of them going over 15yards in the air. Johnson can get open. JuJu and Wash have made a name for themselves getting those 50/50 balls. The OL pass blocks better than most in the league. Our RBs are excellent pass catchers out of the backfield. This is a game where the Steelers need to get out to a good lead early before the D gets gassed in the 4th qtr. Only way I see to do that is with splash plays early and often. I think this plan plays to the strength of Rudolph and this offense.

I've heard (as of others) that's he's put (and I'd guess will be putting) the work in. That's the important thing. I just don't know how much he can improve in that area. But, i'm more than willing to wait out the season and watch and then see how he comes back next year. Hopefully Ben has another season or two left in him and we can see Mason develop alongside him.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Ben does not give a shit about this team and bet he isn't around Monday Night! Fock him and we move on with Rudolph better or worse! We roll with Mason here on out.

[Fire Goodell]

I’d rather die by the sword than go conservative again. Backups in Jax and Carolina are lighting it up.

Same here, I was getting pissed in the 1st half of the last game because they were playing WAY too safe. Playing it safe is ok if you have the running game and defense, but we don't. If we want to win any games, we're gonna have to put Mason in position to win us some games. Yeah we will lose some and he'll make mistakes, but I'd rather lose and go for it, than lose and look afraid to take a chance in the process.

[pczach]

LOL. First world problems, eh? Thanks for the clarification and sorry I took your post out of context.


No problem.

I've been getting my ass kicked by the digital jungle lately. :tongue1:

[Craic]

Same here, I was getting pissed in the 1st half of the last game because they were playing WAY too safe. Playing it safe is ok if you have the running game and defense, but we don't. If we want to win any games, we're gonna have to put Mason in position to win us some games. Yeah we will lose some and he'll make mistakes, but I'd rather lose and go for it, than lose and look afraid to take a chance in the process.

If Nix wasn't injured, I wouldn't mind seeing us line up in the I and pound the ball and take pressure off of Mason. But to go out there and play small-ball and 3 yards and a cloud of mediocrity wasn't what I was hoping for. If Mason's long ball is good enough (and several things I read said that despite arm strength, he can get the ball down the field), then take the top off and let it go. 9 men in a box is not going to stop until we prove we can put the ball over the top and hurt a defense. Repeatedly. So, let M.R. earn his stripes or his walking papers and open up the playbook.

- - - Updated - - -


No problem.

I've been getting my ass kicked by the digital jungle lately. :tongue1:
lol.

I've been getting it kicked by my wife . . . oh, wait, I wasn't supposed to share that. :chuckle: