Randy Fichtner

[Edman]

If he wasn't Ben's valet, he'd be working at Wal-Mart or working in plumbing.

[Steeldude]

Tomlin's keen eye for coaches.

[FrancoLambert]

He’s just as good as Keith Butler.

[lipps83]

He’s just as good as Keith Butler.

Yep, no identity or flow. Just doing stuff out there.

[Edman]

He’s just as good as Keith Butler.

No, don't you see? The players are the problem.

It's not like we finally opened up the offense after the Niners took the lead, then the bad reads suddenly went away.

[Mojouw]

What's really funny, is that most of you are correct that Fichtner is being revealed to be the emperor who has no clothes. It just isn't for the reasons you think.

[Mojouw]

Fichtners sins are lack of pre snap motion, should use stacks/bunches to get Juju a free release way more often, and the fact that each route on a given play seems to have nothing to do with the other routes. Don't see alot of attempts to move a safety out of a zone with one route and then run another route right into the vacated space. Only has to look at his own defense to watch a clinic on it each week. Finally, I don't see a lot of jabs early in the game to set up knockout punches later. Even Haley did that.

Honestly, at this point I think Haley would be better. Can't believe I'm saying that.

[Fire Goodell]

All I gotta say about him (and Butler)

https://media3.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/3RvRgZE9lVZPAm4aLs5BWQJT0ws/fit-in/2048xorig/filters:format_auto.!!.:strip_icc.!!./2016/06/20/818/n/38761221/320c6aff5dfdb68e_a.gif

[Edman]

Honestly, at this point I think Haley would be better. Can't believe I'm saying that.

Haley was better, but Ben didn't like him and he was fired. Ben ran the show on the Steelers. He ran the offense. He ran the gameplan. He was the coach.

This whole entire coaching staff was crutched on Ben, and with the crutch gone, they have to do some actual coaching and gameplanning. Ben wasn't even with the team today. They were a collection of figureheads, not coaches. Now they have to coach and gameplan.

They failed their first test miserably today.

[Mojouw]

Haley was better, but Ben didn't like him and he was fired. Ben ran the show on the Steelers. He ran the offense. He ran the gameplan. He was the coach.

This whole entire coaching staff was crutched on Ben, and with the crutch gone, they have to do some actual coaching. Ben wasn't even with the team today.

They failed their first test miserably.

I actually thought the defensive gameplan was decent. At least at first glance. Slowed San Fran more than anyone else so far.

The lack of help through scheme on offense was bad.

[pczach]

No, don't you see? The players are the problem.

It's not like we finally opened up the offense after the Niners took the lead, then the bad reads suddenly went away.



Rudolph converted a crossing pattern to JuJu 11 yards past the LOS that JuJu took the final 65 yards to the house, and a deep pass to a WR that was open deep by 10 yards. It's not like he did anything amazing.

Why can't you have a take on anything that isn't a wild overreaction? Everything you post is based on things that you completely blow out of proportion or you simply don't really know anything about. Even when I agree with you on certain things, you always go way over the top and discredit your own argument because you exaggerate everything and don't appear to be able to assess anything subjectively. Once you make up your mind on something, you twist everything you comment on with a silly bias to try to prove your position regardless of facts and with zero obectivity.

- - - Updated - - -


Haley was better, but Ben didn't like him and he was fired. Ben ran the show on the Steelers. He ran the offense. He ran the gameplan. He was the coach.

This whole entire coaching staff was crutched on Ben, and with the crutch gone, they have to do some actual coaching and gameplanning. Ben wasn't even with the team today. They were a collection of figureheads, not coaches. Now they have to coach and gameplan.

They failed their first test miserably today.


Wash....rinse.....repeat......

[st33lersguy]

Fichtner may actually be a worse Steelers OC than Arians was (yeah that bad)

[Mojouw]

Rudolph converted a crossing pattern to JuJu 11 yards past the LOS that JuJu took the final 65 yards to the house, and a deep pass to a WR that was open deep by 10 yards. It's not like he did anything amazing.

Why can't you have a take on anything that isn't a wild overreaction? Everything you post is based on things that you completely blow out of proportion or you simply don't really know anything about. Even when I agree with you on certain things, you always go way over the top and discredit your own argument because you exaggerate everything and don't appear to be able to assess anything subjectively. Once you make up your mind on something, you twist everything you comment on with a silly bias to try to prove your position regardless of facts and with zero obectivity.

- - - Updated - - -




Wash....rinse.....repeat......

Let's not forget the repeated hospital throws that stretched guys out both this week and last week. One of which knocked Vance out of the game.

[Edman]

Rudolph converted a crossing pattern to JuJu 11 yards past the LOS that JuJu took the final 65 yards to the house, and a deep pass to a WR that was open deep by 10 yards. It's not like he did anything amazing.

The point I am making was when the Offense wasn't bumbling around with bubble screens or preoccupied with "Protecting Rudolph" he mysteriously started to play better and look like an NFL Quarterback and the O-Line stopped sucking. Unfortunately, it was too little too late, because by then the 49ers found their footing and the Defense was gassing out.

Even the announcers were calling out the crappy offensive gameplan of the Steelers. Fichtner played right into the hands of the Aggressive 49ers Defense, who could just tee up and attack without being honest. The absolute WORST possible thing you can do for an already struggling offense lacking an identity and starting a new quarterback in his first game.

But hey, anything to protect this coaching staff from criticism.

[Dwinsgames]

already touched on this in the goat thread ( post 35 ) if anyone is interested no need to type it out again here

[Fire Goodell]

Defense gave him 5 extra possessions, this game should have been put away if we had a half competent OC

[pczach]

The point I am making was when the Offense wasn't bumbling around with bubble screens or preoccupied with "Protecting Rudolph" he mysteriously started to play better and look like an NFL Quarterback. Unfortunately, it was too little too late, because by then the 49ers found their footing and the Defense was gassing out.

Even the announcers were calling out the crappy offensive gameplan of the Steelers.

But hey, anything to protect this coaching staff from criticism.


I'm not trying to protect the coaching staff.

I have made it very clear on this message board that I am not a fan of Butler. I don't like a lot of his scheming and his inability to make adjustments in-game to stop what teams are doing to him. The personnel mismatches that he has on the field and the communication problems are also partly on him.

As for Fichtner, I still don't think we have a big enough sample to know. It's easy to criticize someone when a team struggles, but let's be honest about something. Last year he didn't have Le'Veon Bell. This year, he doesn't have Ben or AB, and the offensive line has played like shit. I understand criticism, but come on man.

I also never liked Haley. I like his offensive structure and how he develops a playbook. I hated how he called plays, and he frankly acted like an ass everywhere he went. He got tossed out of Cleveland after a cup of coffee for being an obnoxious asshole that was working to undermine other coaches for his own power. He's not even in the NFL. That doesn't exactly strengthen your point on Haley, does it.

[Mojouw]

Defense gave him 5 extra possessions, this game should have been put away if we had a half competent OC

Needed either a brilliant OC or a decent QB. Team got neither today. Rudolph was slow and hesitant all day. Fichtner did a lot to protect the kid, but next to nothing to help him.

[Mojouw]

I'm not trying to protect the coaching staff.

I have made it very clear on this message board that I am not a fan of Butler. I don't like a lot of his scheming and his inability to make adjustments in-game to stop what teams are doing to him. The personnel mismatches that he has on the field and the communication problems are also partly on him.

As for Fichtner, I still don't think we have a big enough sample to know. It's easy to criticize someone when a team struggles, but let's be honest about something. Last year he didn't have Le'Veon Bell. This year, he doesn't have Ben or AB, and the offensive line has played like shit. I understand criticism, but come on man.

I also never liked Haley. I like his offensive structure and how he develops a playbook. I hated how he called plays, and he frankly acted like an ass everywhere he went. He got tossed out of Cleveland after a cup of coffee for being an obnoxious asshole that was working to undermine other coaches for his own power. He's not even in the NFL. That doesn't exactly strengthen your point on Haley, does it.

I think what I am starting to "think" about Fichtner is that he can help an offense be good if it is already good. But he can't scheme around problems. I know that doesn't really sound like I am saying too much of anything, but I swear there is an idea in there somewhere.

Like he put Rudolph in a # of positions today where the stakes were low. There was a high % of success and a low % of failure. However, when the 49ers responded and started just walking everyone and their grandmother down to the LOS and turning their edge rushers lose, Fichtner didn't have a lot dialed up to help Rudolph.

Not having a FB or a TE likely hurt. But they needed to try something. Maybe lean into the 4-5 shotgun spread stuff even more? It is the only times Rudolph truly looked comfortable. Maybe try some 2 RB sets with Conner and Samuels and run screens right behind those pass rushing ends? I don't know.

[pczach]

Needed either a brilliant OC or a decent QB. Team got neither today. Rudolph was slow and hesitant all day. Fichtner did a lot to protect the kid, but next to nothing to help him.


I mostly agree with this.

I still defend Rudolph. I want to see more of him with better OL play and more creativity to get receivers open.

They MUST develop better route combinations to create space for receivers. All they have to do is watch the Patriots and how nearly every pass play has pick plays to create that separation. Everyone raves about Brady, but he is often throwing to guys that are wide open. Everyone wants to tell you that he is playing with shit talent, but they don't mention the great schemes he plays in. You can't say a quarterback has shit WRs and simultaneously have players running wide open all over the field. Of course coaching has a lot to do with that.

That's what makes football so interesting to talk about. There is a ton of information to understand, and there are so many unknowns because we don't have access to know play calls or what the progression is on each play called. It is also why it is so frustrating to talk about.

[Mojouw]

I mostly agree with this.

I still defend Rudolph. I want to see more of him with better OL play and more creativity to get receivers open.

They MUST develop better route combinations to create space for receivers. All they have to do is watch the Patriots and how nearly every pass play has pick plays to create that separation. Everyone raves about Brady, but he is often throwing to guys that are wide open. Everyone wants to tell you that he is playing with shit talent, but they don't mention the great schemes he plays in. You can't say a quarterback has shit WRs and simultaneously have players running wide open all over the field. Of course coaching has a lot to do with that.

That's what makes football so interesting to talk about. There is a ton of information to understand, and there are so many unknowns because we don't have access to know play calls or what the progression is on each play called. It is also why it is so frustrating to talk about.

Agreed. I'm trying to hold off on coming down to much on Fichtner or Rudolph until more information comes out. Where there guys open that were missed? If so, then maybe it is on Rudolph. If no one was open and the niners were not running complex coverages, then it is on the coaches to get some better plays into the script to help the QB out.

Based on what I think I saw today, it is a little bit of both.

[Mojouw]

One other thing. Maybe the offensive approach has to change. Spend Monday with Rudolph and Roethlisberger and Fichtner talking about what Rudolph is most comfortable with. Then shelve everything in the book that isn't that. It will put a great deal of pressure on the entire offense to learn a new scheme on the fly, but that is what teams often have to do when the back-up QB becomes the starter.

Honestly, I would cue up Rudolph's college tape and just shamelessly steal that entire playbook. Even if it means that in 2020 you move away from it and back to something else to accommodate Roethlisberger's return.

[Born2Steel]

Ben looked terrible in a game and a half. Rudolph honestly didn't look MUCH better in his game and a half so far. The OL is not playing well hence the run game has been bad. When defenses force you into a 1 dimension offense it usually looks bad. NO, I am not putting the blame on the OL. Not on the run game either. Just a bad looking offense all around. Dropped passes, turnovers, penalties, WTF play calling, it all works together to make this terrible unit so far. I sincerely hope this was the last week of this crap. 0-4 and I won't be able to log back on here and read all the fire everybody posts. I would have to quit.

[Neversatisfied]

Shouldn't it be blatantly obvious the problem isnt the coordinators as much as its the Head Coach? Seriously its a total team issue, the defense allows long TD drives following the 2 TD drives by the offense and the defensive line isnt capable all in the same game. The Steelers set an NFL record after losing despite 4+ turnovers by the opposing team . The Steeler teams of the last 8 seasons are a carbon copy in deficiencies and the Head Coach is responsible.

[Fire Goodell]

Who hired those coordinators? Maybe he needs to go also

[Born2Steel]

Maybe it's too many Toledo players.

[Edman]

Who hired those coordinators? Maybe he needs to go also

If you're talking about Tomlin, then that's not true.

Randy Fichtner was a Ben move, and Keith Butler was promoted because the Steelers didn't want to lose him and keep the Lebeau Defense. Tomlin never actually hired anyone.

He's a figurehead through and through.

[pczach]

One other thing. Maybe the offensive approach has to change. Spend Monday with Rudolph and Roethlisberger and Fichtner talking about what Rudolph is most comfortable with. Then shelve everything in the book that isn't that. It will put a great deal of pressure on the entire offense to learn a new scheme on the fly, but that is what teams often have to do when the back-up QB becomes the starter.

Honestly, I would cue up Rudolph's college tape and just shamelessly steal that entire playbook. Even if it means that in 2020 you move away from it and back to something else to accommodate Roethlisberger's return.



At this point, I don't care if they run more RPO stuff. They need to do something different.

I think more play action is required. It has been non-existent since Haley became OC. It has been a pet peeve of mine for years.

Run more plays with JuJu in the slot and move him all over the field. That gives him a 2-way go and makes it harder for teams to scheme against him.

If receivers aren't able to win one-on-one matchups against man coverage with a spread formation, dump it. Only show it when necessary. Rudolph would thrive in a New England style offense with tons of motion and pick plays. The quick passing game gets the ball out of his hand quickly, and the routes create quick separation. When an OL is struggling, that helps. Of course, Rudolph won't be able to get into plays to exploit defenses the way Brady can, but that style of attack might help him.

No matter what they do, I think the OL needs to get its shit together. None of this talk matters if they can't block anybody. You can't expect a young quarterback to overcome horrible offensive line play. The tackles haven't been good. Villanueva usually sucks for a game and then plays lights out. Not this year. The OTs are struggling.

[DesertSteel]

I’m changing my name to FireFichtner!

[Mojouw]

At this point, I don't care if they run more RPO stuff. They need to do something different.

I think more play action is required. It has been non-existent since Haley became OC. It has been a pet peeve of mine for years.

Run more plays with JuJu in the slot and move him all over the field. That gives him a 2-way go and makes it harder for teams to scheme against him.

If receivers aren't able to win one-on-one matchups against man coverage with a spread formation, dump it. Only show it when necessary. Rudolph would thrive in a New England style offense with tons of motion and pick plays. The quick passing game gets the ball out of his hand quickly, and the routes create quick separation. When an OL is struggling, that helps. Of course, Rudolph won't be able to get into plays to exploit defenses the way Brady can, but that style of attack might help him.

No matter what they do, I think the OL needs to get its shit together. None of this talk matters if they can't block anybody. You can't expect a young quarterback to overcome horrible offensive line play. The tackles haven't been good. Villanueva usually sucks for a game and then plays lights out. Not this year. The OTs are struggling.

All good talking points and ideas.

I think that Vance going out of the game early may have shuttered the play action before it got started. With just Grimble available, I can see why the team wanted to run 4+ WR sets. Especially when facing multiple 2nd and 3rd and longs. They didn't stay ahead of the chains all that much and once they did, the main TE threat was hurt. So you start moving away from offensive formations that provide play-action opportunities.

I believe that a bigger component of the gameplan would've been that TE screen right behind the pass rushing DE/OLB. But they likely didn't seem to have confidence or any desire to run it with Grimble. I fail to see why. Even if it doesn't work, force the 49ers to at least consider it. Bottom line, Vance getting hurt likely kicked the legs out of a portion of the gameplan. This is where Shoes can jump in and breathe fire at the poor plan for 2019 TE depth on the roster. I teed it right up for him!

The play of the OTs was difficult to watch. I do not know enough about the 49ers pass rush to know if they are scary good or just looked that way against the Steelers. Why there was no other players brought in to help chip on those pass rushers, I don't know. Maybe, again, we are seeing the disastrous results of McDonald and Nix being off the field. I don't know, because it is hard to see OL play during the TV broadcast. Or, at least for me it is. I do know that almost everything I feared about Feiler is kinda coming true. He simply isn't that good. If he keeps playing like this, I believe we are going to see Banner or Chuks get a chance.

The style of attack is truly infuriating. We have seen with both Ben and Rudolph at the helm, that simply lining skill position guys up and having them each run an isolated route isn't working. I realize they can't run Juju out of a stack on every play, but certainly maybe more than they are? As you point out, whether it is pick/rub routes or literally anything - why are so many of the routes not related to the other routes? Sometimes it is better to run 3 routes designed to get only one guy open then to try and get all three open. Especially with a rookie QB who isn't , at this point, going to get too deep into his progressions anyways.

Three weeks now and other offenses are killing the Steelers defense with route combinations designed to really only get one guy open. The Pats did it a bunch and the Seahawks were brilliant on the deep TD to Metcalf. Ran TEs and backs into the flat to hold the CB and LBs. Left Edmunds to defend Metcalf with no help over the top and Metcalf having the ability to bend the route in or out with open field in either direction. Puts the DB in a horrific situation. Meanwhile, the Steelers WR run routes that pin them against the sideline or leave them running into coverage (the first Rudolph pick today). If the ball doesn't come out on-time and highly accurate, then the route is basically over. Shockingly, Rudolph was not consistently on time or accurate.

A side note on the above. That is why I never bought the "AB doesn't really run the right routes" critique too much. Often he was allowed/trusted to run to open space and the veteran QB saw the same space. Where it was a problem was when the vet QB expected AB to run it a certain way and he didn't. But that is in the past, so I won't spend anymore time on it.

For the shotgun spread - I think it is a double edged sword. Clearly, that is where Rudolph is most comfortable and it is out of that type of formation that he looked the most decisive and aggressive. However, the design for those packages needs to improve. The TD to Juju was great. The formation made the 49ers show their alignment early. Then the rest of the routes cleared a path for Juju to run one on one to open space. Rudolph put it right on him and it was a huge play. The other long TD to DJ was them getting lucky that an ice cold back-up got smoked off the line and there was no over the top defender. And Rudolph could just throw the WR to space. I think what Fichtner et al need to look at is how on those plays did they dictate coverage and manipulate the safeties away from the primary option? Identify that and find ways to do it again and again. Unfortunately, in too many of the plays out of that formation, they aren't dictating coverage to the defense and are losing the match-ups.

I believe that forcing the defense into the coverages you want or expect pre-snap is going to be the entire key to the passing attack for the rest of 2019. Ben was capable of manipulating defenders post-snap with pump fakes, looking off and then coming back across, and other "I'm a damn good QB" stuff. Rudolph isn't there yet. He needs defenders cleared out of passing lanes for him because he isn't, yet, able to do it himself.

Is the rest of the team up to that challenge of supporting the development of Rudolph? Today, no. Moving forward? No idea.

[86WARD]

Fichtners sins are lack of pre snap motion, should use stacks/bunches to get Juju a free release way more often, and the fact that each route on a given play seems to have nothing to do with the other routes. Don't see alot of attempts to move a safety out of a zone with one route and then run another route right into the vacated space. Only has to look at his own defense to watch a clinic on it each week. Finally, I don't see a lot of jabs early in the game to set up knockout punches later. Even Haley did that.

Honestly, at this point I think Haley would be better. Can't believe I'm saying that.

That’s what I basically said last week. There’s little to no creativity in the offense, there’s no creativity to the route running, there’s no creativity in blocking scheme. It’s almost like they run a basic high school offense.

[Mojouw]

That’s what I basically said last week. There’s little to no creativity in the offense, there’s no creativity to the route running, there’s no creativity in blocking scheme. It’s almost like they run a basic high school offense.

I find that so surprising. I think I read somewhere last year, remember when we were all "Fichtner Fans" because of the efficiency, that his Memphis offenses were pretty creative and above what your local high school team is running.

There has to be more to the story here. No way any of us find out until and if someone gets fired and decides to start talking to the press.

[86WARD]

I find that so surprising. I think I read somewhere last year, remember when we were all "Fichtner Fans" because of the efficiency, that his Memphis offenses were pretty creative and above what your local high school team is running.

There has to be more to the story here. No way any of us find out until and if someone gets fired and decides to start talking to the press.

Now that you say that, I feel like I remember something about that as well. I feel like I read something that movement and motion were a big part of his offense...both pre-snap and misdirection during the play, running was a big part. Spread formation. Ben would be calling a lot of plays and audibles.

Maybe not...

[Mojouw]

Now that you say that, I feel like I remember something about that as well. I feel like I read something that movement and motion were a big part of his offense...both pre-snap and misdirection during the play, running was a big part. Spread formation. Ben would be calling a lot of plays and audibles.

Maybe not...

Ok. So either we are both crazy or that did happen. I guess either is totally possible.

[86WARD]

Lol

[pczach]

All good talking points and ideas.

I think that Vance going out of the game early may have shuttered the play action before it got started. With just Grimble available, I can see why the team wanted to run 4+ WR sets. Especially when facing multiple 2nd and 3rd and longs. They didn't stay ahead of the chains all that much and once they did, the main TE threat was hurt. So you start moving away from offensive formations that provide play-action opportunities.

I believe that a bigger component of the gameplan would've been that TE screen right behind the pass rushing DE/OLB. But they likely didn't seem to have confidence or any desire to run it with Grimble. I fail to see why. Even if it doesn't work, force the 49ers to at least consider it. Bottom line, Vance getting hurt likely kicked the legs out of a portion of the gameplan. This is where Shoes can jump in and breathe fire at the poor plan for 2019 TE depth on the roster. I teed it right up for him!

The play of the OTs was difficult to watch. I do not know enough about the 49ers pass rush to know if they are scary good or just looked that way against the Steelers. Why there was no other players brought in to help chip on those pass rushers, I don't know. Maybe, again, we are seeing the disastrous results of McDonald and Nix being off the field. I don't know, because it is hard to see OL play during the TV broadcast. Or, at least for me it is. I do know that almost everything I feared about Feiler is kinda coming true. He simply isn't that good. If he keeps playing like this, I believe we are going to see Banner or Chuks get a chance.

The style of attack is truly infuriating. We have seen with both Ben and Rudolph at the helm, that simply lining skill position guys up and having them each run an isolated route isn't working. I realize they can't run Juju out of a stack on every play, but certainly maybe more than they are? As you point out, whether it is pick/rub routes or literally anything - why are so many of the routes not related to the other routes? Sometimes it is better to run 3 routes designed to get only one guy open then to try and get all three open. Especially with a rookie QB who isn't , at this point, going to get too deep into his progressions anyways.

Three weeks now and other offenses are killing the Steelers defense with route combinations designed to really only get one guy open. The Pats did it a bunch and the Seahawks were brilliant on the deep TD to Metcalf. Ran TEs and backs into the flat to hold the CB and LBs. Left Edmunds to defend Metcalf with no help over the top and Metcalf having the ability to bend the route in or out with open field in either direction. Puts the DB in a horrific situation. Meanwhile, the Steelers WR run routes that pin them against the sideline or leave them running into coverage (the first Rudolph pick today). If the ball doesn't come out on-time and highly accurate, then the route is basically over. Shockingly, Rudolph was not consistently on time or accurate.

A side note on the above. That is why I never bought the "AB doesn't really run the right routes" critique too much. Often he was allowed/trusted to run to open space and the veteran QB saw the same space. Where it was a problem was when the vet QB expected AB to run it a certain way and he didn't. But that is in the past, so I won't spend anymore time on it.

For the shotgun spread - I think it is a double edged sword. Clearly, that is where Rudolph is most comfortable and it is out of that type of formation that he looked the most decisive and aggressive. However, the design for those packages needs to improve. The TD to Juju was great. The formation made the 49ers show their alignment early. Then the rest of the routes cleared a path for Juju to run one on one to open space. Rudolph put it right on him and it was a huge play. The other long TD to DJ was them getting lucky that an ice cold back-up got smoked off the line and there was no over the top defender. And Rudolph could just throw the WR to space. I think what Fichtner et al need to look at is how on those plays did they dictate coverage and manipulate the safeties away from the primary option? Identify that and find ways to do it again and again. Unfortunately, in too many of the plays out of that formation, they aren't dictating coverage to the defense and are losing the match-ups.

I believe that forcing the defense into the coverages you want or expect pre-snap is going to be the entire key to the passing attack for the rest of 2019. Ben was capable of manipulating defenders post-snap with pump fakes, looking off and then coming back across, and other "I'm a damn good QB" stuff. Rudolph isn't there yet. He needs defenders cleared out of passing lanes for him because he isn't, yet, able to do it himself.

Is the rest of the team up to that challenge of supporting the development of Rudolph? Today, no. Moving forward? No idea.



Good observations.

Let's see if Fichtner comes up with anything new or makes adjustments to get Rudolph in more plays that he is comfortable in or can create more easy throws for him.

[teegre]

Here are some things to consider:

-There was a mixture of different alignments and formations. It wasn’t just “empty backfield, 5-wide” (which seems to be the only thing he called last season). We’re they good formations? IDK... but, at least it was something different.

-Watt gets the INT. Then... three screens!?!

-First 18 plays: 14 passes, 4 runs.

-The receivers dropped five passes... three that would have converted first downs.

-No Samuels. A young QB who needs to dump off, and the best pass-catching RB got zero snaps!?!

-McDonald went out. He was targeted more, and his presence might have made a difference (Grimble dropped one of the aforementioned passes).

-When Witherspoon went out, they attacked his replacement. Result: TD. You gotta give everyone (Fichtner, Rudolph) credit for that.

SUMMATION:
As someone else said: Fichtner went from Ben’s caddy to handing Rudolph the wrong clubs.

As in: There are some subtle signs that this offense can indeed improve (as long as Fichtner “chooses the correct club”.)

[tube517]

Samuels needs more touches.

[Dwinsgames]

Here are some things to consider:

-There was a mixture of different alignments and formations. It wasn’t just “empty backfield, 5-wide” (which seems to be the only thing he called last season). We’re they good formations? IDK... but, at least it was something different.

-Watt gets the INT. Then... three screens!?!

-First 18 plays: 14 passes, 4 runs.

-The receivers dropped five passes... three that would have converted first downs.

-No Samuels. A young QB who needs to dump off, and the best pass-catching RB got zero snaps!?!

-McDonald went out. He was targeted more, and his presence might have made a difference (Grimble dropped one of the aforementioned passes).

-When Witherspoon went out, they attacked his replacement. Result: TD. You gotta give everyone (Fichtner, Rudolph) credit for that.

SUMMATION:
As someone else said: Fichtner went from Ben’s caddy to handing Rudolph the wrong clubs.

As in: There are some subtle signs that this offense can indeed improve (as long as Fichtner “chooses the correct club”.)

Samuels got snaps just no touches ......

McDonald got the same amount of looks as Grimble ( 2 )

Running game was never established and no effort was made to do so .....

a few deep balls early in the game would have made a difference is my guess it backs a defense off a bit even if incomplete the willingness to make the effort puts it in the defenses mindset that its possible / likely to happen again which helps open up underneath to intermediate stuff as well as running lanes .....

all this talk about Ben's caddy and handing Mason the wrong clubs is fine ( if you believe ) he has the right clubs in his bag to begin with and to be honest I am not sure he owns them to put in the bag ...

[Blast Furnace]

This coaching staff is just LAZY! They can't even look at themselves objectively to determine their deficiencies - and no one on the team does it for them either. It has started at Tomlin and has worked itself down. The whole FO needs burned to the ground and rebuilt!

[AtlantaDan]

Running game was never established and no effort was made to do so .....

a few deep balls early in the game would have made a difference is my guess it backs a defense off a bit even if incomplete the willingness to make the effort puts it in the defenses mindset that its possible / likely to happen again which helps open up underneath to intermediate stuff as well as running lanes .....

all this talk about Ben's caddy and handing Mason the wrong clubs is fine ( if you believe ) he has the right clubs in his bag to begin with and to be honest I am not sure he owns them to put in the bag ...

In The Athletic this morning (paywalled) Mark Kaboly says teams will play 8 in the box until Rudolph has continuing success going deep to force the safety out

The Steelers won’t be able to run until Mason Rudolph does something about it

https://theathletic.com/1232648/2019/09/23/the-steelers-wont-be-able-to-run-until-mason-rudolph-does-something-about-it/

[stillers4me]

This coaching staff is just LAZY! They can't even look at themselves objectively to determine their deficiencies - and no one on the team does it for them either. It has started at Tomlin and has worked itself down. The whole FO needs burned to the ground and rebuilt!Yeah....that's a good solution.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

In The Athletic this morning (paywalled) Mark Kaboly says teams will play 8 in the box until Rudolph has continuing success going deep to force the safety out

The Steelers won’t be able to run until Mason Rudolph does something about it

https://theathletic.com/1232648/2019/09/23/the-steelers-wont-be-able-to-run-until-mason-rudolph-does-something-about-it/


Did he say that until Villanueva and Feiler stop playing like matadors in pass protection, he wont be able to have time to throw anything deep? AV was getting beat almost as bad as he did against the Patriots week 1. Didn't help out. And we know pass protection isn't Feilers strong suit, but he lost the battle on the edge often.

[Mojouw]

McDonald can't get touches from the locker room.

There were no deep passes early because the first 2 drives basically started and ended in the red zone. Clearly no one trusts Rudolph to throw in the compressed areas of the field. And the rest of the game showed why - he does not get the ball out quick enough yet.

Rudolph throw over five yards complete just twice. He was bad and the WRs dropped a few. Fichtner can draw up anything and everything, but this passing chart documents poor QB play. Or perhaps a raw QB harassed by a pass rush. Something - https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1175969562019450880

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFHiD9rWkAAVO3m.jpg:large

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

McDonald can't get touches from the locker room.

There were no deep passes early because the first 2 drives basically started and ended in the red zone. Clearly no one trusts Rudolph to throw in the compressed areas of the field. And the rest of the game showed why - he does not get the ball out quick enough yet.

Rudolph throw over five yards complete just twice. He was bad and the WRs dropped a few. Fichtner can draw up anything and everything, but this passing chart documents poor QB play. Or perhaps a raw QB harassed by a pass rush. Something - https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1175969562019450880

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFHiD9rWkAAVO3m.jpg:large

Thanks for posting this. I think what most fans wonder, is why can commentator Trent Green advocate multiple times that Rudolph should take a shot deep to back off the coverage and it took over half the game for that to happen? I agree that pass protection wasn't there often and maybe he didn't want to take the deep shot or Fichtner didn't want him taking the deep shot.

I'm guessing that a more experienced OC or a guy that knows the QB position like Trent Green, would have called a play and told Rudolph to take a shot deep earlier in the game, in order to back the safeties off. I think it was in the 3rd when Rudolph threw the first deep incompletion....and commentator Green said something like "that's OK, at least they know you will throw it deep".

I don't think Fichtner is used to coaching his QB on stuff like that. Maybe Steelers should hire a QB coach that knows what he is doing, as I don't think Rudolph had any help from somebody of experience.

[Mojouw]

Thanks for posting this. I think what most fans wonder, is why can commentator Trent Green advocate multiple times that Rudolph should take a shot deep to back off the coverage and it took over half the game for that to happen? I agree that pass protection wasn't there often and maybe he didn't want to take the deep shot or Fichtner didn't want him taking the deep shot.

I'm guessing that a more experienced OC or a guy that knows the QB position like Trent Green, would have called a play and told Rudolph to take a shot deep earlier in the game, in order to back the safeties off. I think it was in the 3rd when Rudolph threw the first deep incompletion....and commentator Green said something like "that's OK, at least they know you will throw it deep".

I don't think Fichtner is used to coaching his QB on stuff like that. Maybe Steelers should hire a QB coach that knows what he is doing, as I don't think Rudolph had any help from somebody of experience.

That's the thing that can not be answered right now. Did Rudolph not go deep because he wasn't told to or given plays that allowed it OR did he not go deep because he was hesitant and lacked aggressiveness except on wide open looks? Almost impossible to tell with the TV camera angles.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That's the thing that can not be answered right now. Did Rudolph not go deep because he wasn't told to or given plays that allowed it OR did he not go deep because he was hesitant and lacked aggressiveness except on wide open looks? Almost impossible to tell with the TV camera angles.

True, but it sounds like to me that if Trent Green was the QB coach, he would have walked over to Rudolph and said "next series we are going 3WR, 9-7-9, so look off the safety and take a deep shot at the 9". I don't think that happened at all.

[Mojouw]

True, but it sounds like to me that if Trent Green was the QB coach, he would have walked over to Rudolph and said "next series we are going 3WR, 9-7-9, so look off the safety and take a deep shot at the 9". I don't think that happened at all.

That is a good point. I think the next game will be telling. If it is the same high percentage low risk passing attack, then coaches. If not and Rudolph still can't hit it, then its Rudolph and the o-line. Goodness gracious they were bad.

I think there is room for improvement. No matter the play call, Rudolph has to get the ball out quicker. He was late on screens. That illegal man downfield on AV was likely because AV has a clock in his head for the ball getting out and Rudolph went past it.

I think there is a TON of space to run down Fichtner. But I saw nothing that encouraged me from Rudolph other than attitude. Kid has all the compete in the world. It was one game, on the road and against what appeared to be a decent to pretty good defense while getting zero help from his offensive line. So I am not going to pass too harsh a judgement on him, but he didn't put a lot of good out there.

[Hawkman]

This coaching staff is just LAZY! The whole FO needs burned to the ground and rebuilt!

Talk about LAZY?! That’s a very unoriginal, unconstructive, solution.....and for your first post!?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That is a good point. I think the next game will be telling. If it is the same high percentage low risk passing attack, then coaches. If not and Rudolph still can't hit it, then its Rudolph and the o-line. Goodness gracious they were bad.

I think there is room for improvement. No matter the play call, Rudolph has to get the ball out quicker. He was late on screens. That illegal man downfield on AV was likely because AV has a clock in his head for the ball getting out and Rudolph went past it.

I think there is a TON of space to run down Fichtner. But I saw nothing that encouraged me from Rudolph other than attitude. Kid has all the compete in the world. It was one game, on the road and against what appeared to be a decent to pretty good defense while getting zero help from his offensive line. So I am not going to pass too harsh a judgement on him, but he didn't put a lot of good out there.

I agree, I saw lack of accuracy/timing with WR's and what looked like either nobody open when he had protection or no protection.

[DesertSteel]

I found myself at one point hoping that the Niners would score and take the lead so that the Steelers would take the handcuffs off of Rudolph. I absolutely HATE Fichtner as the OC. He needs to move on to his life's work. Butler is bad, but this guy is even worse.

[Squeegee Thompson]

Three weeks now and other offenses are killing the Steelers defense with route combinations designed to really only get one guy open. The Pats did it a bunch and the Seahawks were brilliant on the deep TD to Metcalf. Ran TEs and backs into the flat to hold the CB and LBs. Left Edmunds to defend Metcalf with no help over the top and Metcalf having the ability to bend the route in or out with open field in either direction. Puts the DB in a horrific situation. Meanwhile, the Steelers WR run routes that pin them against the sideline or leave them running into coverage (the first Rudolph pick today). If the ball doesn't come out on-time and highly accurate, then the route is basically over. Shockingly, Rudolph was not consistently on time or accurate.


This one is on Butler. He's being incredibly aggressive with the pass rush - too much so, IMO. I'm seeing 5 or more coming on every snap. If they get to the QB, it's fantastic, but the cost is leaving wide open holes for crossing routes or in the soft zone between LB and secondary. Those holes are huge when your linebackers are all rushing the passer all the time.

I'm all for being aggressive and getting after the quarteback, and watching Garoppolo have his ribs cracked is a joy to watch - but it's high risk / high reward, and lately yielding huge gainers. Butler needs to pick his spots a little more judiciously on when to bring the house.

[Rotorhead]

The passing game didn’t kill us, it was the running game. Sure Jimmy G got his throws, but if they weren’t constantly on 2nd and 2 after every 1st down run, Jimmy G would have not fared as well. We desperately miss VW, that is for sure.

[Born2Steel]

I found myself at one point hoping that the Niners would score and take the lead so that the Steelers would take the handcuffs off of Rudolph. I absolutely HATE Fichtner as the OC. He needs to move on to his life's work. Butler is bad, but this guy is even worse.

Ready to start a ‘Tony Romo for OC’ thread?

[86WARD]

McDonald can't get touches from the locker room.

There were no deep passes early because the first 2 drives basically started and ended in the red zone. Clearly no one trusts Rudolph to throw in the compressed areas of the field. And the rest of the game showed why - he does not get the ball out quick enough yet.

Rudolph throw over five yards complete just twice. He was bad and the WRs dropped a few. Fichtner can draw up anything and everything, but this passing chart documents poor QB play. Or perhaps a raw QB harassed by a pass rush. Something - https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1175969562019450880

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFHiD9rWkAAVO3m.jpg:large

That’s crazy

[Dwinsgames]

That’s crazy

just plain bad

[silver & black]

I'll trade you guys Jon Gruden and Gregg Olson, straight up for Tomlin and Fichtner???? Please??????

[Fire Goodell]

Ready to start a ‘Tony Romo for OC’ thread?

I honestly think Romo would be a good OC, the guy knows his stuff. Does he have any coaching experience though? Having know-how might make you a good analyst, but coaching involves game planning and such. Experience is always a factor here I'd imagine.

[pczach]

Did he say that until Villanueva and Feiler stop playing like matadors in pass protection, he wont be able to have time to throw anything deep? AV was getting beat almost as bad as he did against the Patriots week 1. Didn't help out. And we know pass protection isn't Feilers strong suit, but he lost the battle on the edge often.


I made this exact point earlier in the thread. The tackles need to play better...period. It's hard to throw deep when you are getting quick pressure.

I'm not absolving Rudolph of everything, but he is young and inexperienced. He needs his teammates to raise the level of their games to help him succeed, and coaches need to find what works best for him and what plays and throws he is most comfortable with. Start with that, let him get some confidence, and then start adding to his playbook. Someone needs to get in this kids ear and start explaining how to move safeties with his eyes. Explain and teach with a hands-on approach so he can not only learn the craft, but understand why certain things need to be done and why they work on defenders.

I think you are right. Someone needs to be in his ear and really working with him. The position is so hard to play, even for extremely talented people. Rudolph needs to be put in a position to succeed. He took his first steps Sunday. He found out that it is different when a defense has a week to prepare for him. Now we'll see how he responds, and how the coaching staff helps facilitate his progress.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I made this exact point earlier in the thread. The tackles need to play better...period. It's hard to throw deep when you are getting quick pressure.

I'm not absolving Rudolph of everything, but he is young and inexperienced. He needs his teammates to raise the level of their games to help him succeed, and coaches need to find what works best for him and what plays and throws he is most comfortable with. Start with that, let him get some confidence, and then start adding to his playbook. Someone needs to get in this kids ear and start explaining how to move safeties with his eyes. Explain and teach with a hands-on approach so he can not only learn the craft, but understand why certain things need to be done and why they work on defenders.

I think you are right. Someone needs to be in his ear and really working with him. The position is so hard to play, even for extremely talented people. Rudolph needs to be put in a position to succeed. He took his first steps Sunday. He found out that it is different when a defense has a week to prepare for him. Now we'll see how he responds, and how the coaching staff helps facilitate his progress.

Yeah, the CBS broadcast team was correct in that one of the keys was for the 49ers to pressure Rudolph. A young QB like that facing NFL pressure in his first start would like to have a "security blanket" so to speak. We would think it was gonna be an O line with 3 pro bowlers, but AV looked more like professional bowler Big Ernie McCracken on Sunday. Also, a TE that could catch would be nice to have, but he had Grimble to play with, or a running game, but none of it was there and pressure was getting to Rudolph often.

Either way, they still had a chance when SF fumbled it in the red zone with 6 min left and if the Steelers grind out a TD drive on that, then we would be singing a different tune here today.

[JayC]

how did our coaching staff get this bad? we always want our coaches fired it seems but they always seem to be replaced with worse coaches than before

[DesertSteel]

how did our coaching staff get this bad? we always want our coaches fired it seems but they always seem to be replaced with worse coaches than before
Somewhere the idea was adopted that all promotion needed to come from within... Bad idea.

[Edman]

McDonald can't get touches from the locker room.

There were no deep passes early because the first 2 drives basically started and ended in the red zone. Clearly no one trusts Rudolph to throw in the compressed areas of the field. And the rest of the game showed why - he does not get the ball out quick enough yet.

Rudolph throw over five yards complete just twice. He was bad and the WRs dropped a few. Fichtner can draw up anything and everything, but this passing chart documents poor QB play. Or perhaps a raw QB harassed by a pass rush. Something - https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1175969562019450880

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFHiD9rWkAAVO3m.jpg:large

You can look at the play chart, and meanwhile, I just watched the game.

Rudolph was shackled behind a conservative passing game for good two and a half quarters. Fichtner wanted to play “Hide the Quarterback”. The Niners Defense smelled blood. Until Rudolph broke under the constant pressure and threw a pick.

The Forty Niners take their first lead, then Rudolph was allowed to throw longer than five yards. He suddenly was much more successful, the Offensive Line improved just a bit, and all of the yips mysteriously disappeared.

You call it poor quarterback play. I call it bad coaching and game plan.

[Fire Goodell]

You can look at the play chart, and meanwhile, I just watched the game.

Rudolph was shackled behind a conservative passing game for good two and a half quarters. Fichtner wanted to play “Hide the Quarterback”. The Niners Defense smelled blood. Until Rudolph broke under the constant pressure and threw a pick.

The Forty Niners take their first lead, then Rudolph was allowed to throw longer than five yards. He suddenly was much more successful, the Offensive Line improved just a bit, and all of the yips mysteriously disappeared.

You call it poor quarterback play. I call it bad coaching and game plan.

Agree. 2nd half they did more of "letting Mason be Mason". The dude was a big play specialist in college. Heck maybe this offense is gonna be the new Jeff Blake offense where every other pass is a bomb :chuckle:

[Blast Furnace]

Talk about LAZY?! That’s a very unoriginal, unconstructive, solution.....and for your first post!?

Sorry Hawk, I didn’t realize that you are the board’s post police. Okay, so let’s try this. I understand that Mason spent his collegiate career in the shotgun formation, but he worked extensively during the off-season on his mechanics and lining up under center. In fact, he looked pretty damn good at it when he hit McDonald in the end zone for a td against Seattle. So, lining up in the shotgun with a rb on your side does nothing to freeze the linebackers. Had they brought Mason under center, play action could have been utilized much more. However, others have already said it that our OL, particularly our tackles were getting beating like little bitches all day, so the likelihood that he would have set up on a pass play and been hit immediately was probably better as well. Our offense was bland and one dimensional to say the least and it’s the coaches fault - all of it. So Hawk, tell me what the Steelers should have done and please be constructive as if the coaches are listening!

[86WARD]

how did our coaching staff get this bad? we always want our coaches fired it seems but they always seem to be replaced with worse coaches than before

The coordinators have been in a decline for all of Tomlin’s tenure. The reason you are really starting to see it on offense at this point is because Mike Munchak is gone and Ben isn’t there to cover it up. They’ve always been bad...you just never noticed it this much. Defense and Special Teams. well we all know those stories.

[Mojouw]

Got some buddies who are Eagles fans. Their message boards are all absolutely convinced, I mean dead certain, that that entire staff are morons and couldn't coach a peewee team.

Just saying.

[86WARD]

Got some buddies who are Eagles fans. Their message boards are all absolutely convinced, I mean dead certain, that that entire staff are morons and couldn't coach a peewee team.

Just saying.

So pretty much the state of Pa...lol. It’s the water...

[tube517]

Got some buddies who are Eagles fans. Their message boards are all absolutely convinced, I mean dead certain, that that entire staff are morons and couldn't coach a peewee team.

Just saying.

Did they save (catch) babies in a house fire and throw shade at Agholor while being interviewed on TV?

[Blue Marvel]

I don't know how you promote a Sub Par QB coach to OC....someone make that make sense to Me...he hasn't developed 1 back up since he's been in Pitt...now he's the OC ???

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Did they save (catch) babies in a house fire and throw shade at Agholor while being interviewed on TV?
:rofl: I saw that online. That is some great shade.

So why do the Steelers want to trade for Agholor??

[SteelersCanadian]

Maybe you shouldn't let your quarterback choose the offensive coordinator. :noidea: