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Born2Steel
09-19-2019, 08:00 PM
Just premature. For those of you who are currently worshipping at the alter of Rudolph I would tell you be patient. It takes years to become what Ben has become. It doesn't happen over a season or 2. Even those idiot Chiefs fans have no real idea what Mahomes is going to be 2-3 seasons from now. Maybe Ben has declined some after 35, that does not and it should not muddy his legacy. Rudolph has 1 half game of a real NFL career so comparisons to Ben should be 15 in a row. I would LOVE to see 17 in a row but pump the brakes a bit on the 'Ben is done' narrative for the time being. Let this play out the season first.

DesertSteel
09-19-2019, 08:04 PM
No one is worshipping Rudolph, but some of us are optimistic. And what if Rudolph does have a great year -- e.g., 30 TD / 4,000 yards and leads the team to the playoffs, do you then go back to Ben in 2020?

st33lersguy
09-19-2019, 08:08 PM
Rudolph could easily not be the answer we don't know I am certainly not going to say he definitely is, but Ben is 37 requiring elbow surgery. That won't be easy to bounce back from. Even when Ben was playing, he was about 20% of normal Ben. I have no doubt that Ben will try and come back, that's the competitor in him, it is just hard to imagine he will be the same guy who built a HOF career

Edman
09-19-2019, 08:18 PM
Oh woe is the Steelers. The team is doomed. We’ll never win without Ben. Rudolph sucks. Forfeit the season. Fire Tomlin. The Steelers are finished. They’ll never win again. The sky is falling.

We are just optimistic and ready to get behind Rudolph. We have no choice but to. Regardless of how his future plays out. He’s a likeable guy and we want him to succeed.

It’s called being a fan. Ben is a great QB and he has brought on a ton of memories, he is a future HOFer, but he is not the reason why I am a fan of the Steelers. I was a fan of the Steelers before Ben, and I will remain a fan after him.

Born2Steel
09-19-2019, 08:27 PM
Oh woe is the Steelers. The team is doomed. We’ll never win without Ben. Rudolph sucks. Forfeit the season. Fire Tomlin. The Steelers are finished. They’ll never win again. The sky is falling.

We are just optimistic and ready to get behind Rudolph. We have no choice but to. Regardless of how his future plays out. He’s a likeable guy and we want him to succeed.

It’s called being a fan. Ben is a great QB and he has brought on a ton of memories, he is a future HOFer, but he is not the reason why I am a fan of the Steelers. I was a fan of the Steelers before Ben, and I will remain a fan after him.

I would LOVE for you to show me where I indicated ANY of that. Don't make up your own conversation when we already have one going.

- - - Updated - - -


No one is worshipping Rudolph, but some of us are optimistic. And what if Rudolph does have a great year -- e.g., 30 TD / 4,000 yards and leads the team to the playoffs, do you then go back to Ben in 2020?

I believe you do, yes.

- - - Updated - - -


Rudolph could easily not be the answer we don't know I am certainly not going to say he definitely is, but Ben is 37 requiring elbow surgery. That won't be easy to bounce back from. Even when Ben was playing, he was about 20% of normal Ben. I have no doubt that Ben will try and come back, that's the competitor in him, it is just hard to imagine he will be the same guy who built a HOF career

This was not a thread about Ben. It's about be patient with Rudolph. Ben was the exception for rookie QBs.

Butch
09-19-2019, 08:55 PM
There are a lot of things to like about Mason, and all of Steeler Nation is hoping he can rescue our season. That by itself will not be an easy task, but there is hope. The difference is even though there is hope at this point I don't think it would be fair to him to say it is expected, at least at this point. Some things I would like to see is for him to improve on a few things. He needs to lead more of his receivers with his passes rather than throwing behind them. This is something I can see as an expectation. He sometimes has a tendency to stare down his receivers again something he can improve on. These to me are my expectations. He seems to have very good pocket awareness I am hoping this will continue to work to his advantage. Of course the main goal is winning and that may or may not take some time and the more he wins the more the expectations will rise. I personally hope he goes on a rampage, but even if he doesn't just prove that you belong on the team and the rest will come in time. If he does win and takes us to the playoffs or even the Super Bowl then there will be plenty to discuss on who the starting QB should be. At 0-2 that is a loooong ways off. I am excited to see what he can do if nothing else I hope he proves he is a worthy backup who can win a few games here and there. As a Steeler fan I want him to win everyone of them. Let the reindeer games begin.

Born2Steel
09-19-2019, 09:10 PM
There are a lot of things to like about Mason, and all of Steeler Nation is hoping he can rescue our season. That by itself will not be an easy task, but there is hope. The difference is even though there is hope at this point I don't think it would be fair to him to say it is expected, at least at this point. Some things I would like to see is for him to improve on a few things. He needs to lead more of his receivers with his passes rather than throwing behind them. This is something I can see as an expectation. He sometimes has a tendency to stare down his receivers again something he can improve on. These to me are my expectations. He seems to have very good pocket awareness I am hoping this will continue to work to his advantage. Of course the main goal is winning and that may or may not take some time and the more he wins the more the expectations will rise. I personally hope he goes on a rampage, but even if he doesn't just prove that you belong on the team and the rest will come in time. If he does win and takes us to the playoffs or even the Super Bowl then there will be plenty to discuss on who the starting QB should be. At 0-2 that is a loooong ways off. I am excited to see what he can do if nothing else I hope he proves he is a worthy backup who can win a few games here and there. As a Steeler fan I want him to win everyone of them. Let the reindeer games begin.

Excellent thoughts. Agreed. I love the "Let the reindeer games begin." I'm totally stealing that!

AtlantaDan
09-19-2019, 09:13 PM
Just premature. For those of you who are currently worshipping at the alter of Rudolph I would tell you be patient. It takes years to become what Ben has become. It doesn't happen over a season or 2. Even those idiot Chiefs fans have no real idea what Mahomes is going to be 2-3 seasons from now. Maybe Ben has declined some after 35, that does not and it should not muddy his legacy. Rudolph has 1 half game of a real NFL career so comparisons to Ben should be 15 in a row. I would LOVE to see 17 in a row but pump the brakes a bit on the 'Ben is done' narrative for the time being. Let this play out the season first.

As someone who recalls the two decades of sketchy QB play between Bradshaw and Ben, it may fall under the heading of be careful what you wish for, but there simply is Ben fatigue with a significant portion of the fan base.

As I was leaving Pittsburgh Monday morning after my annual trip to Heinz, the news of Ben possibly needing surgery broke. I was talking about that with a cashier at Giant Eagle who said her husband had worked security at a Pittsburgh club frequented by Ben pre-Milledgeville at which her husband said Ben habitually got drunk and groped women - for that reason she told me she knows this may be bad news for the Steelers but she will shed no tears for Ben.

I then talked with the attendant when I dropped off the rental car - his response was he probably should feel worse about the injury but that age catches up with everyone except Tom Brady and it probably is time to move on.

As good as Ben has been, a combination of his off-field conduct earlier in his career, the drama in which he has been a central player over the past several years, and the recurring playoff disappointments along with the collapse last year IMO are a significant part of why Ben being out for at least this season has not generated more despair that his career might be over.

Add to that the past eight seasons having resulted in a 3-5 playoff record with one AFC championship game appearance and some fans being ready to turn the page is not totally incomprehensible.

RunNGun
09-19-2019, 09:22 PM
Stick a fork in Ben. He's done. Great legacy. Great player. Future HOFer. Nothing but respect for the guy. I love what he's done for the franchise and I love all the memories. I also know when it is time to move on. Face it, he's not winning any more super bowls and he's not a fine wine. Hope that Mason is the answer, and if he's not...fire everyone...because we just traded a top 10 or 5 pick in exchange for a DB. That trade still makes me sick.

Edman
09-19-2019, 09:37 PM
I would LOVE for you to show me where I indicated ANY of that. Don't make up your own conversation when we already have one going.

Welp, claiming that people are "worshipping" Rudolph in the main post for one. Yeah, getting behind the new guy who has actually shown very encouraging signs is "worshipping" him. Not a good look.

Mason comes in ice-cold off the bench. Hardly any practice with the starters. The start couldn't have gone any worse for him. Receivers dropping passes and a Perfect throw to Donte Moncrief that bounces right off of his concrete hands and is intercepted. Seattle turns that short field into a touchdown and a 14-10 lead. Mason showed great poise by responding and nearly leading the Steelers back into winning the game. Seattle actually didn't want to give him the ball back on that final drive. When you drastically alter an opposing team's gameplan, you know you have something.


As good as Ben has been, a combination of his off-field conduct earlier in his career, the drama in which he has been a central player over the past several years, and the recurring playoff disappointments along with the collapse last year IMO are a significant part of why Ben being out for at least this season has not generated more despair that his career might be over.

And let's be real and blunt honest with ourselves. Ben didn't exactly setting the world on fire before he was hurt. He was hot garbage against New England, and he was...not good against Seattle. He goes out of the game, Mason replaces him, the Steelers Offense mysteriously and suddenly springs to life after being completely horrible for six quarters. What changed? Did Randy Fichtner suddenly become competent? Nope. The Quarterback changed.

In the NFL, It's the first and most damning sign that your time is up and its time to consider getting on with your life's work. We appreciate Ben for everything he has done. We really do. But this is a business league, and "what have you done for me lately" is the norm. This isn't 2000's 3-Time Super Bowl Appearance Ben we're moving on from. It's the 2010's. What we're moving on from is ten years without a championship while watching New England tie us in titles. Postseason losses to Blake Bortles, Locker Room Drama, a 3-5 postseason record, getting embarrassed by the Patriots, boneheaded interceptions, and Empty Shotgun sets.

It's a sad way to go out, we wish it went better, but not all NFL stories have happy endings. It's over.

Born2Steel
09-20-2019, 07:24 AM
Welp, claiming that people are "worshipping" Rudolph in the main post for one. Yeah, getting behind the new guy who has actually shown very encouraging signs is "worshipping" him. Not a good look.

Mason comes in ice-cold off the bench. Hardly any practice with the starters. The start couldn't have gone any worse for him. Receivers dropping passes and a Perfect throw to Donte Moncrief that bounces right off of his concrete hands and is intercepted. Seattle turns that short field into a touchdown and a 14-10 lead. Mason showed great poise by responding and nearly leading the Steelers back into winning the game. Seattle actually didn't want to give him the ball back on that final drive. When you drastically alter an opposing team's gameplan, you know you have something.



And let's be real and blunt honest with ourselves. Ben didn't exactly setting the world on fire before he was hurt. He was hot garbage against New England, and he was...not good against Seattle. He goes out of the game, Mason replaces him, the Steelers Offense mysteriously and suddenly springs to life after being completely horrible for six quarters. What changed? Did Randy Fichtner suddenly become competent? Nope. The Quarterback changed.

In the NFL, It's the first and most damning sign that your time is up and its time to consider getting on with your life's work. We appreciate Ben for everything he has done. We really do. But this is a business league, and "what have you done for me lately" is the norm. This isn't 2000's 3-Time Super Bowl Appearance Ben we're moving on from. It's the 2010's. What we're moving on from is ten years without a championship while watching New England tie us in titles. Postseason losses to Blake Bortles, Locker Room Drama, a 3-5 postseason record, getting embarrassed by the Patriots, boneheaded interceptions, and Empty Shotgun sets.

It's a sad way to go out, we wish it went better, but not all NFL stories have happy endings. It's over.

Are you lost? Look at your very 1st paragraph in post#4. Where did I indicate THAT in any way. Woe is you if you can’t follow that.

steel striker
09-20-2019, 07:24 AM
I'm not willing to stick a fork in Ben and, let's what happens with Mason. I know Ben did not play well the little he played this season but, it was not all his fault. The defense well let's just say it mainly the secondary has been horrible. The WR's are a work in progress and, the need to run the ball a heck of better. This is a young team but, damn a lot of you are kick dirt on the best QB since Bradshaw. Maybe I'm wrong but, I'm not willing to give up on Ben yet.

DesertSteel
09-20-2019, 08:31 AM
Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning... they all have two things in common. They’re each better than Ben and they all got jettisoned to other teams for the last part of their career. If (IF!!!) Rudolph lights it up and leads this team to a winning record, Ben is not going to be put back as the starter next year. And it would be a travesty if he was.

Born2Steel
09-20-2019, 08:42 AM
Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning... they all have two things in common. They’re each better than Ben and they all got jettisoned to other teams for the last part of their career. If (IF!!!) Rudolph lights it up and leads this team to a winning record, Ben is not going to be put back as the starter next year. And it would be a travesty if he was.

IF. Which makes all of the “time to move on” posts premature.

Ezra Tank
09-20-2019, 08:56 AM
Just premature. For those of you who are currently worshipping at the alter of Rudolph I would tell you be patient. It takes years to become what Ben has become. It doesn't happen over a season or 2. Even those idiot Chiefs fans have no real idea what Mahomes is going to be 2-3 seasons from now. Maybe Ben has declined some after 35, that does not and it should not muddy his legacy. Rudolph has 1 half game of a real NFL career so comparisons to Ben should be 15 in a row. I would LOVE to see 17 in a row but pump the brakes a bit on the 'Ben is done' narrative for the time being. Let this play out the season first.

I'd beg to differ ....

2004 Rookie year 15-1 team lose in AFC Championship game.
2005 Second year wins Superbowl.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-20-2019, 08:56 AM
Do we remember what Terry Bradshaw looked like in '82? Or Lambert when the toe injury caught up with him? Or Jerry Rice in a Seahawks jersey when he could no longer get open? Or Bo Jackson after hip surgery?

I definately think Ben will be back next season, but at 38 and returning from injury I think we will see a further declining Ben. Maybe the guy that hinted at retirement 3 years ago might find himself too proud to command the huddle and throw more INT than TD's. Last time I checked, Father Time is still undefeated. So whether its 2020 or 2021, I think retirement is quickly approaching.

DesertSteel
09-20-2019, 09:28 AM
IF. Which makes all of the “time to move on” posts premature.
There’s also an IF Ben fully recovers.

86WARD
09-20-2019, 09:55 AM
Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning... they all have two things in common. They’re each better than Ben and they all got jettisoned to other teams for the last part of their career. If (IF!!!) Rudolph lights it up and leads this team to a winning record, Ben is not going to be put back as the starter next year. And it would be a travesty if he was.

He will be back and he will start. Lol. You obviously haven’t watched Steelers Football for long...

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-20-2019, 10:19 AM
He will be back and he will start. Lol. You obviously haven’t watched Steelers Football for long...

Not so subtle condescension. Always fun to see in discussions. :pop2:

DesertSteel
09-20-2019, 10:21 AM
He will be back and he will start. Lol. You obviously haven’t watched Steelers Football for long...
Yeah just since 1972 unlike you who goes back to before Noll.

Squeegee Thompson
09-20-2019, 10:23 AM
We've all gotten jaded and a bit spoiled watching Ben over the last 15 years. I've watched every single snap of his career. But now that he's out, I've been forced to take off the black-n-gold glasses a bit and for the first time in a long time, do an honest evaluation of his ability and his work ethic. His physical skills are no doubt degrading, and this was never quarterback who you'd give the label 'cerebral'. Ben beat you with his athleticism, not by outsmarting you.

He excelled by making something out of nothing, shedding tackles, extending plays, then putting the football in ridiculously small windows while throwing off-balance and on the run. It was his other-worldly athletic skill that separated him from other QBs. But when the skills at this level degrade, they can degrade in a hurry. Peyton Manning went from throwing 50 TDs in Denver to losing his job to Brock freaking Osweiler. Almost overnight. My opinion is Ben's decline started in the 2nd half of last year. For someone of this guy's pedigree to be bad for ~10 games without digging out of it is a major red flag.

As great as Ben has been, however, there were always some aspects of the guy that left a lot to be desired. He was never a 'film-room' junkie. He just didn't put in the extra work that Brady or Manning or Brees have become legendary for. His off-the-field behavior has been well-chronicled. The anecdotes from restaurants around Pittsburgh was that guy was generally a shithead to everyone. He was never the undisputed leader of the locker room that inspired greatness from everyone around him. It just wasn't in his personality. Some QBs are born leaders, some just aren't - and Ben seems to fall into the latter camp.

Now, granted - I'm a shameless homer, and most of us here also fall into that same category - but there are these attributes about Rudolph that I so desperately wished Ben had developed, just never did.

1) He's a born leader, he's comfortable leading - and the O-line, Foster in particular, have already picked up on it.
2) He's already developed a reputation for being a super hard worker and a film room junkie. You're hardwired to put in the extra effort, or you're not. This kid is.
3) He's a very high character guy, who's also humble. People generally like the guy and gravitate towards him.
4) He's supremely confident in his ability. You have to be to succeed in this league. The Ryan Leaf headcase-types wash out of the NFL in a hurry.

Will Rudolph bomb this year? I'd give it a coin-flip's chance. This a young kid who's about to try to play the most difficult position in all of professional sports. However, stranger things have happened when a nobody got their shot. Brady was destined to be a career clipboard-holder before Bledsoe went down. He got his chance and never looked back. Kurt Warner, in his own words, was 'undrafted training camp fodder' who was bagging groceries - but got his shot, and never looked back. Both became Canton material.

If Rudolph fails, we all mentally move on and hope we can squeeze out one or two more seasons out of Ben and then start a serious look for the next franchise QB. The odds of landing one aren't good. The Farve -> Rodgers transitions are exceedingly rare. Most franchises have to wander in the wilderness for a while before they strike gold. Some teams (like Minnesota, Chicago, Miami-post-Marino) are still trying to get out of the wilderness.

On the other hand, if Rudolph lights it up this year, or even shows promise of growth after taking some lumps - then holy shit! ... we may have just lucked into a post-Ben transition to our next quarterback. Worst-case, is we have a QB controversy, Ben comes back, and maybe Rudolph can be traded for a high draft pick. So, I want Rudolph to come in, light it up, and create a QB controversy for next year. It's the best case scenario for the team, Miami gets shafted with a 1.20-something pick, not a 1.5 pick, and the Steelers can go right back to being competitive without having to wander the desert for another 40 years.

Rotorhead
09-20-2019, 10:33 AM
The only way Ben doesn’t start next season is if doesn’t recover or we win the SB with Mason. It is funny reading all these threads of arguments, the best thing that comes from this is we get to see what we have with Mason. That is good for the Steelers. Do we have Ben’s replacement after he retires or not. If not we have a couple years to find one, if he is, we can continue shoring up our team (ie will need to start looking for Poinceys replacement soon)

86WARD
09-20-2019, 10:51 AM
Yeah just since 1972 unlike you who goes back to before Noll.

Nah...just since about 76-77. Did you take a break for a while? Missed the team sticking with Hines Ward too long? Troy Polamalu a season or two too long? Brett Keisel? Not to mention all the scrubs they’ve kept on the team too long...lol.

It’s just what the Steelers do.

86WARD
09-20-2019, 10:54 AM
The only way Ben doesn’t start next season is if doesn’t recover or we win the SB with Mason. It is funny reading all these threads of arguments, the best thing that comes from this is we get to see what we have with Mason. That is good for the Steelers. Do we have Ben’s replacement after he retires or not. If not we have a couple years to find one, if he is, we can continue shoring up our team (ie will need to start looking for Poinceys replacement soon)

Maybe Mason wins a Super Bowl (lol) and Ben comes back healthy and the team trades Rudolph to a team for two first round picks...then what will people bitch about? Having Lynch and Hodges backing up Ben with the potential of getting the number one QB in the 2021 draft? That long haired hippy from Clemson? Let me guess...people will bitch about “sunshine’s” hair?

SteelersNorth
09-20-2019, 11:06 AM
Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning... they all have two things in common. They’re each better than Ben and they all got jettisoned to other teams for the last part of their career. If (IF!!!) Rudolph lights it up and leads this team to a winning record, Ben is not going to be put back as the starter next year. And it would be a travesty if he was.

Like the current guy in Green Bay is grossly oveerrated.
I'll take Ben before both of those guys.
The one you mention above holds the record for picks and is some how a messiah because hes THE GUNSLINGER! Ben's highest was 23 in 2006 Fav-res was 29!!!! And he threw over 22 on 5 separate occasions.
Ben has a slight (i say that loosely because at least 7-9 were to appease that goofball soon to be cut in NE) off season with 16 and he throws too many? ca'mon man.

Mojouw
09-20-2019, 11:15 AM
Pouncey talked about how Ben has been having elbow issues for over a season now. Honestly, it was the first thing I thought when they announced he was getting surgery. Barring catastrophic injury, ligaments don’t just go from great to need surgery all at once. I believe it is a degradation over time that eventually just wears them out.

What is my point? There is a version where Ben R comes back with some of his most recent issues fixed. Maybe all that sudden inaccuracy and less than impressive deep ball stuff was a result of a guy compensating for a creeping injury in his elbow. Maybe he didn’t even really notice it until he had to put that extra something on the ball. Or maybe he doesn’t and this is the first step on a steep slide to retirement.

Either way, unless Rudolph plays like 2018 Mahomes, Roethlisberger is the starting QB in 2020. And likely 2021 as well.

Squeegee Thompson
09-20-2019, 11:21 AM
Either way, unless Rudolph plays like 2018 Mahomes, Roethlisberger is the starting QB in 2020. And likely 2021 as well.

Rudolph won't need to play like 2018 Mahomes (which were video game numbers) to win the job. If he plays like 2015 Kirk Cousins, that'd probably be enough to cement his position as the 2020 starter ... and 2015 Cousins is still a pretty tall order.

DesertSteel
09-20-2019, 11:39 AM
Either way, I’m pretty excited about watching an 0-2 team on Sunday and there’s only one reason. Maybe he throws 4 touchdowns or maybe he throws 4 picks. If I had to guess, I’d go 3/1 but I’m not sure the coaches are up to the task to get the win.

Mojouw
09-20-2019, 11:44 AM
Rudolph won't need to play like 2018 Mahomes (which were video game numbers) to win the job. If he plays like 2015 Kirk Cousins, that'd probably be enough to cement his position as the 2020 starter ... and 2015 Cousins is still a pretty tall order.
If this team pushes Ben out the door for any version of a Kirk Cousins performance, I will throw up in my mouth a bit. Cousins is just not actually good. Somehow he puts up decent numbers but still just kinda sucks.

Squeegee Thompson
09-20-2019, 12:10 PM
If this team pushes Ben out the door for any version of a Kirk Cousins performance, I will throw up in my mouth a bit. Cousins is just not actually good. Somehow he puts up decent numbers but still just kinda sucks.

Agree with this statement. But when Cousins first got the chance to start a full season, he fooled everyone into thinking he was legitimate franchise material. Got himself paaaaiiidddd on his way to Minnesota.

You think the Vikings would like to have some of that $84 million guaranteed back now? :jawdrop2:

Fire Goodell
09-20-2019, 12:40 PM
Cousins isn't bad, 70% completion percentage and 30 TD / 10 INT is not bad at all. Can't help the rest of his team is trash. However, I don't think he's worth that money he got, that big contract is part of the reason why they can't afford much else.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-20-2019, 12:59 PM
Cousins isn't bad, 70% completion percentage and 30 TD / 10 INT is not bad at all. Can't help the rest of his team is trash. However, I don't think he's worth that money he got, that big contract is part of the reason why they can't afford much else.

True. All that and the 10th best passer rating in 2018. Doesn't look like a bad QB if he throws 3:1 TD to INT and is top 10 in passer rating. Steelers can be hopeful that whoever replaces Ben is that proficient of a QB.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
09-20-2019, 01:48 PM
If Rudolph leads the Steelers to the playoffs this season then Ben is done in Pittsburgh. That is just the way it is and you don't bench your future QB or trade them. Ben will be traded or a post June cut. That is if he doesn't decide to hang it up after this season to begin with.

Ezra Tank
09-20-2019, 01:53 PM
Cousins isn't bad, 70% completion percentage and 30 TD / 10 INT is not bad at all. Can't help the rest of his team is trash. However, I don't think he's worth that money he got, that big contract is part of the reason why they can't afford much else.

When Dalvin Cook went down the Vikings and Cousins were easier to defend. Now that Cook is healthy this will be the year for Cousins to prove he's worth the money. With a stud RB like Cook his receivers (Thielen & Diggs two very good guys) should be open.


If Rudolph leads the Steelers to the playoffs this season then Ben is done in Pittsburgh. That is just the way it is and you don't bench your future QB or trade them. Ben will be traded or a post June cut. That is if he doesn't decide to hang it up after this season to begin with.

Agree with this. Now if Ben were 10 years younger absolutely you trade Rudolph but there is no way you trade a 24 year old who just lead you to the playoffs to keep a 38 year old who is coming off of a major surgery.

Mojouw
09-20-2019, 02:01 PM
Whenever the moment is big and his team needs a play, Cousin wilts and throws a pick. He is kinda like an Alex Smith or Andy Dalton type. If what we are talking about is winning a SB, you simply are not going to do it with either actual Cousins or a Cousins clone.

I'll take the guy with slightly less stats who can actually make plays in the biggest moments.

86WARD
09-20-2019, 03:38 PM
Cousins? Lol.