Week 3: San Francisco 49ers

[Edman]

It's officially the Mason Rudolph show with Ben out for the year with a busted elbow.

The Niners are 2-0, just got done destroying the Bengals.

The Steelers have not won in San Francisco in twenty years, now they are headed there 0-2 with a new Quarterback making his first start. This season has taken a turn. The Steelers have nothing to lose at this point.

[steelreserve]

This season has taken a turn. The Steelers have nothing to lose at this point.

Except a football game, don't forget.

[Fire Goodell]

Expecting 0-3, but just hope Rudolph plays well. 49ers are tough this year and we never play well out West. If the game is competitive, I'm happy with it.

[86WARD]

Expecting 0-3, but just hope Rudolph plays well. 49ers are tough this year and we never play well out West. If the game is competitive, I'm happy with it.

49ers played the Buccaneers and Bengals...I’m not ready to crown them anything yet. The Niners aren’t scaring me...the Steelers, if they lose, will be because of Tomlin and company...

[Fire Goodell]

49ers played the Buccaneers and Bengals...I’m not ready to crown them anything yet. The Niners aren’t scaring me...the Steelers, if they lose, will be because of Tomlin and company...

Cincy played Seattle tough in their backyard and put up a fight. We lost to those Seahawks in our house. Sure the niners beat weaker teams but they did it how a good team should beat a bad team, convincingly

[86WARD]

Cincy played Seattle tough in their backyard and put up a fight. We lost to those Seahawks in our house. Sure the niners beat weaker teams but they did it how a good team should beat a bad team, convincingly

Their run game is good but again, not going against great defenses. Cincinnati has nothing on offense other than Andy Dalton and the pass game. Same goes with the Buccaneers. Frankly, Seattle isn’t that good either. Niners are one of those teams that will start 5-0, 5-1, 4-1 and then wind up 6-10.

[Hawkman]

Their run game is good but again, not going against great defenses. Cincinnati has nothing on offense other than Andy Dalton and the pass game. Same goes with the Buccaneers. Frankly, Seattle isn’t that good either. Niners are one of those teams that will start 5-0, 5-1, 4-1 and then wind up 6-10.

Did that post go as you planned? Not sure I get where you were going.

[86WARD]

Did that post go as you planned? Not sure I get where you were going.

Yes. Point was, I don’t think the 49ers are as good as their record indicates.

[Steeldude]

28 - 24 49ers

[j-d-s]

24-17 and the start of the Mason Rudolph era!

[Fire Goodell]

Is it Ola time yet? Chickillo is banged up

[86WARD]

23-18 Steelers win.

[pczach]

Is it Ola time yet? Chickillo is banged up


It has been Ola time for a while now IMO. He has had injuries that have held him out to this poi t, but he has shown that he can be a much more impactful player than Chickillo. I think it's time to see what he can do.

[steel striker]

Steelers win 27-14

[86WARD]

No ones talking about Vance beasting out versus his old team??

[NCSteeler]

Is it Ola time yet? Chickillo is banged upThis. Chick is peaked and just not that good.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

No ones talking about Vance beasting out versus his old team?? Well there is that and Rudolph seems to like going to him.

[86WARD]

This. Chick is peaked and just not that good.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Chick’s peak has only been a valley...he’s God awful...maybe the worst OLB this team has ever seen...

[steel striker]

No ones talking about Vance beasting out versus his old team??

Right I agree and, I think Vance could have a big game. I also noticed that he is in good shape beefed up his arms.

[tube517]

1175091318378422273

[Squeegee Thompson]

1175091318378422273

Good news. This means Moncrete has firmly entrenched himself in the doghouse. More DJ and less Moncrief can only be a good thing.

[Mojouw]

37-13 win by the California dudes. Shanny just beats Bush/Barron/Edmunds/MF like a drum all day with creative formations and player movement. Steelers continue to respond with confusion and predictable alignments. Mason and the offense get behind on the scoreboard and with the chains early and often. Too much to overcome. Mercifully no one else gets hurt.

[DesertSteel]

32-27 Steelers

[Shoes]

Steelers get their first win.

Steelers 27

49ers 24

[Rotorhead]

48-13 Steelers, Huge 1st half for Washington leads to a big half for Conner and Vance

[NCSteeler]

37-13 win by the California dudes. Shanny just beats Bush/Barron/Edmunds/MF like a drum all day with creative formations and player movement. Steelers continue to respond with confusion and predictable alignments. Mason and the offense get behind on the scoreboard and with the chains early and often. Too much to overcome. Mercifully no one else gets hurt.As much as I hate that, it sounds accurate. Till they fix the communication issues in the middle of the field people will abuse them.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[Rotorhead]

I think this team is going to rally behind him, I think they win just because of that.

[Born2Steel]

I hope to get a steady diet of Conner, Samuels, and Snell. McDonald wants the ball, make plays to get it to him. Defensively Steelers have to play disciplined gap assignment and I hope to see Fitz make his presence known.

[AtlantaDan]

37-13 win by the California dudes. Shanny just beats Bush/Barron/Edmunds/MF like a drum all day with creative formations and player movement. Steelers continue to respond with confusion and predictable alignments. Mason and the offense get behind on the scoreboard and with the chains early and often. Too much to overcome. Mercifully no one else gets hurt.

Too much to overcome definitely including the difference in the quality of the playcalling

These excerpts from the linked paywalled article by Mark Kaboly in The Athletic sum up the performance of Fichtner as Ben's caddy

It wasn’t that big of a deal that if things went sideways early in games Fichtner would scrap the game plan and let Roethlisberger wing it....

Fichtner, who called his first play in nearly 20 years last year, admitted to panicking early in the opener against the Patriots and said that affected his play-calling later in the game.

https://theathletic.com/1224914/2019/09/21/kabolys-keys-randy-fichtners-plan-has-to-have-an-extra-helping-of-basics/

As far as the problems on defense, in his chat this week Gerry Dulac reiterated his position he has been asserting since at least 2018 that it is not primarily a Butler problem

I don't think people realize how much of the defensive calls (and game plan) Tomlin makes.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/09/18/Gerry-Dulac-s-Steelers-chat-09-18-19/stories/201909180126

Trip to the West Coast, an OC who deferred to the QB now having to call a game for a young QB making his first start, and a bad defense make this look like a blowout to me as well.

31-13 49ers

[Shoes]

PITTSBURGH STEELERS INJURIES


Player

Position

Injury

Practice Status

Game Status



Mark Barron (http://www.nfl.com/players/Barron/profile?id=BAR661788)
LB
--
Full Participation in Practice
--


James Conner (http://www.nfl.com/players/Conner/profile?id=CON461999)
RB
--
Full Participation in Practice
--


Alvin Dupree (http://www.nfl.com/players/Dupree/profile?id=DUP507860)
LB
--
Full Participation in Practice
--


Joseph Haden (http://www.nfl.com/players/Haden/profile?id=HAD357325)
CB
--
Full Participation in Practice
--


Vance McDonald (http://www.nfl.com/players/McDonald/profile?id=MCD589658)
TE
--
Full Participation in Practice
--


Anthony Chickillo (http://www.nfl.com/players/Chickillo/profile?id=CHI218488)
LB
Foot
Did Not Participate In Practice
Out


Roosevelt Nix (http://www.nfl.com/players/Nix/profile?id=NIX511473)
RB
Knee
Did Not Participate In Practice
Out


Vince Williams (http://www.nfl.com/players/Williams/profile?id=WIL554116)
LB
Hamstring
Did Not Participate In Practice
Out





SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS INJURIES


Player

Position

Injury

Practice Status

Game Status



Richard Sherman (http://www.nfl.com/players/Sherman/profile?id=SHE669604)
CB
--
Did Not Participate In Practice
--


Tevin Coleman (http://www.nfl.com/players/Coleman/profile?id=COL359050)
RB
Ankle
Did Not Participate In Practice
Out


Jalen Hurd (http://www.nfl.com/players/Hurd/profile?id=HUR080933)
WR
Back
Did Not Participate In Practice
Out


Joe Staley (http://www.nfl.com/players/Staley/profile?id=STA213196)
T
Fibula
Did Not Participate In Practice
Out


Trent Taylor (http://www.nfl.com/players/Taylor/profile?id=TAY758512)
WR
Foot
Did Not Participate In Practice
Out


Nicholas Bosa (http://www.nfl.com/players/Bosa/profile?id=BOS073285)
DE
Ankle
Limited Participation in Practice
Questionable


Donald Ford (http://www.nfl.com/players/Ford/profile?id=FOR113166)
DE
Quadricep
Limited Participation in Practice
Questionable


Jaquiski Tartt (http://www.nfl.com/players/Tartt/profile?id=TAR686527)
S
Toe
Limited Participation in Practice
Questionable


Jimmie Ward (http://www.nfl.com/players/Ward/profile?id=WAR218386)
S
Hand
Limited Participation in Practice
Questionable

[stillers4me]

I really don't know what to expect........so I have no expectations. :heh:

If anyone would have told us a week ago that the next week, that Ben was done for the season, Mason Rudolph was our starting QB, Minkah Fitzpatrick was a part of secondary, Paxton Lynch was on our practice squad, and AB was unemployed, nobody would have believed it.

Ok....I'm kidding about the AB part.

[AtlantaDan]

I really don't know what to expect........so I have no expectations. :heh:

If anyone would have told us a week ago that the next week, that Ben was done for the season, Mason Rudolph was our starting QB, Minkah Fitzpatrick was a part of secondary, Paxton Lynch was on our practice squad, and AB was unemployed, nobody would have believed it.

Ok....I'm kidding about the AB part.

Add to that the week before with the AB Raiders release/Pats signing, AB rape lawsuit, not to mention the minor matter of the Steelers being exposed on the Sunday night opener by the Pats as a bad team after all the preseason hype about additions as well as subtractions, and I cannot recall a crazier two week period for Steelers related news on and off the field

Looking forward to week 3 where I hopefully can just watch football

[Edman]

San Francisco are 6.5 point favorites (It used to be 7).

The 49ers have the perfect tools to abuse the Steelers. A competent QB, and an All-Pro Tight End in George Kittle. Since the Steelers absolutely cannot cover Tight Ends, I expect Kittle to go off on Sunday. No seriously, it isn't a matter of they don't do it. They can't do it. It doesn't matter who it is. You can be a rookie or a total stiff coming off the street, Keith Butler does not have an answer for the Tight End.

If you are expecting the Defense to have some improvement this week despite the addition of Fitzpatrick, I think it may be a good idea to temper that expectation.

[Mojouw]

I think I’m starting to understand why people are so angry all the time. Expectations are just so outsized.

Somehow an offense that struggled mightily with a HOF Qb at the helm will be improved by the insertion of the backup Qb and a rookie WR.

Barron/Bush/Edmunds have repeatedly been exposed as mental midgets. How is facing one of the more schematically complex offenses in the league going to make them better?

[Shoes]

San Francisco are 6.5 point favorites (It used to be 7).

The 49ers have the perfect tools to abuse the Steelers. A competent QB, and an All-Pro Tight End in George Kittle. Since the Steelers absolutely cannot cover Tight Ends, I expect Kittle to go off on Sunday. No seriously, it isn't a matter of they don't do it. They can't do it. It doesn't matter who it is. You can be a rookie or a total stiff coming off the street, Keith Butler does not have an answer for the Tight End.

If you are expecting the Defense to have some improvement this week despite the addition of Fitzpatrick, I think it may be a good idea to temper that expectation.

Butler needs to go play golf.

[AtlantaDan]

You can be a rookie or a total stiff coming off the street, Keith Butler does not have an answer for the Tight End.

He once did, but that was matter of talent, not scheme

The Steelers, with Shazier, led the league in DVOA against tight ends in 2017, according to Football Outsiders. Last year, they tumbled all the way to 31st.

https://deadspin.com/why-the-steelers-traded-for-minkah-fitzpatrick-1838191132

[Shoes]

They should give Austin a shot, this team needs some fresh ideas and must rid themselves of this clan mentality. A good chef can make a great dish out of a few items.

[Edman]

I think I’m starting to understand why people are so angry all the time. Expectations are just so outsized.

Somehow an offense that struggled mightily with a HOF Qb at the helm will be improved by the insertion of the backup Qb and a rookie WR.

Barron/Bush/Edmunds have repeatedly been exposed as mental midgets. How is facing one of the more schematically complex offenses in the league going to make them better?

Expectations (and thus Anger) went out the door regarding this team when Ben was done for the year. Nobody honestly expects this team to be any good. Now it's just waiting and watching to see what potential growth (or fall) they do next. We can just hope they can show something good.

It's a weird and strangely exciting time. Something that I personally haven't felt with the Steelers for a very long time.

[Mojouw]

Expectations (and thus Anger) went out the door regarding this team when Ben was done for the year. Nobody honestly expects this team to be any good. Now it's just waiting and watching to see what potential growth (or fall) they do next. We can just hope they can show something good.

It's a weird and strangely exciting time. Something that I personally haven't felt with the Steelers for a very long time.

I think for some they did and for just as many they didn’t. Comments over the past week seem to be making an argument that the team can keep subtracting parts and getting better because TEAM or some other Disney sports movie vibe. Then real life happens and people get furious. Just what i feel like I’m seeing.

[DesertSteel]

I think I’m starting to understand why people are so angry all the time. Expectations are just so outsized.

Somehow an offense that struggled mightily with a HOF Qb at the helm will be improved by the insertion of the backup Qb and a rookie WR.

Barron/Bush/Edmunds have repeatedly been exposed as mental midgets. How is facing one of the more schematically complex offenses in the league going to make them better?
I think part of the psychology is that if we’re going to suck anyway (with a HOF QB), at least we have a reason to watch. And yes———there is a chance that Rudolph could go on a magic run. For me, football is all about the drama (on the field) and there’s a good storyline right now.

[Mojouw]

I think part of the psychology is that if we’re going to suck anyway (with a HOF QB), at least we have a reason to watch. And yes———there is a chance that Rudolph could go on a magic run. For me, football is all about the drama (on the field) and there’s a good storyline right now.
Good point. I actually morbidly enjoy watching even when they stink. Maybe coming up in the lean years in the 80s or something.

I just hope folks are prepared for the likely possibility that the bottom falls out of this thing.

[Mojouw]

Anyone else feel like Barron takes horrible angles to the play? Maybe I’m not thinking about it right, but he seems to take looping angles to the ball or to a spot in order to avoid any traffic. Doesn’t seem to fight through anything and gets everywhere late. So far, very disappointing signing.

[Shoes]

Anyone else feel like Barron takes horrible angles to the play? Maybe I’m not thinking about it right, but he seems to take looping angles to the ball or to a spot in order to avoid any traffic. Doesn’t seem to fight through anything and gets everywhere late. So far, very disappointing signing.

Maybe you should contact Butler, he probably hasn't noticed. He's got Fitz now “Hallelujah!" Butler said :chuckle:

[DesertSteel]

Good point. I actually morbidly enjoy watching even when they stink. Maybe coming up in the lean years in the 80s or something.

I just hope folks are prepared for the likely possibility that the bottom falls out of this thing.
If the bottom falls out at least we’ll have a high draft pick.

Oh wait...

[Mojouw]

Maybe you should contact Butler, he probably hasn't noticed. He's got Fitz now “Hallelujah!" Butler said :chuckle:

Watching the Badgers stomp Michigan and just wishing that Leonard was magically hired as DC.

[Edman]

I think for some they did and for just as many they didn’t. Comments over the past week seem to be making an argument that the team can keep subtracting parts and getting better because TEAM or some other Disney sports movie vibe. Then real life happens and people get furious. Just what i feel like I’m seeing.


Just because you have a team doesn't mean you're going to be good. I said the Steelers may be more of a team now, but they can also be a bad team. Bad teams do exist. Surprising I know. All signs are pointing to the Steelers being awful for 2019.

People are jumping on the Disney sports thing because The Steelers have never been a team under Tomlin. Just a collection of individual parts and talents, and have never had a real identity. Take Ben this year for example. He thinks of himself as some kind of field general like Peyton Manning, when that has never, ever been his style. Ben's forte was the exciting renegade gunslinger who wings it through to the end. The Offense unsurprisingly, sucked, because Ben is a jock and not a student of the game like Peyton. Nothing wrong with that. It's just not his thing.

Or Le'Veon Bell when he was here. Despite supposedly being the "best RB in the game" with the best O-Line in football, the Steelers offense never ran through him. No read option or playaction passing. The Steelers wanted their cake and eat it too and keep the Ben-Brown connection as well and feed Antonio Brown 10-13 passes a game. The offense was schizophrenic and could never gell despite being talented.

Who are the Steelers? What do they do? What are they about? Why is the Defense still terrible despite all of the first round draft picks?

People are looking at the Steelers new "Team" with a sense of optimism despite subtractions because there is no ego to satisfy in the locker room. Tomlin and the Steelers can finally decide who they want to be, without worrying about Ben or forcing the ball to an Antonio Brown even when it doesn't work. Now, that doesn't mean anything exactly, they can still be terrible because their lack of talent is just that bad.

Long story short. It's a blank slate for the Steelers. The organization clearly has a lot of confidence in this new squad to trade away their 2020 first rounder, or they are just insane and desperate. We'll just have to see.

It is time for Mike Tomlin, Fichtner and Butler to earn their coaching paychecks.

[Mojouw]

Schematically the entire offense ran through Bell when he was here. Even without playaction, they used how and where Bell lined up to force the defense to declare their intentions. Then they typically just attacked the WR who was singled up.

The offense lost its best playmaker, the triggerman for the whole thing, and the RB that was a walking mismatch.

No way they are better this week. Maybe Week 10 or something. But not soon.

Hope I'm wrong. But all this idealized hope that a team young grinders outcompetes previously ludicrously talented versions is a pipe dream. If this was high school or something. But not at this level.

[DesertSteel]

I seem to recall an Arena Football league QB leading a team to a Super Bowl championship. I also recall a backup QB who wanted to retire take a team to the championship over the vaunted Patriots. I'm pretty sure that happened in the NFL in the recent and semi-recent past. I'm not saying it's gonna happen for the Steelers, but I'm not saying it's impossible either.

[NCSteeler]

Schematically the entire offense ran through Bell when he was here. Even without playaction, they used how and where Bell lined up to force the defense to declare their intentions. Then they typically just attacked the WR who was singled up.

The offense lost its best playmaker, the triggerman for the whole thing, and the RB that was a walking mismatch.

No way they are better this week. Maybe Week 10 or something. But not soon.

Hope I'm wrong. But all this idealized hope that a team young grinders outcompetes previously ludicrously talented versions is a pipe dream. If this was high school or something. But not at this level.True. We miss Bell way more than Brown. He set the defense and Conor is a nice RB but he's not a mismatch in any situation

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[Mojouw]

I seem to recall an Arena Football league QB leading a team to a Super Bowl championship. I also recall a backup QB who wanted to retire take a team to the championship over the vaunted Patriots. I'm pretty sure that happened in the NFL in the recent and semi-recent past. I'm not saying it's gonna happen for the Steelers, but I'm not saying it's impossible either.

Certainly not. But that Arena Football QB is now in the NFL HOF. The almost retired back-up was able to run an almost totally re-tooled offensive scheme that used motion, play action, RPO's, and other spread/air-raid concepts to put defenses in difficult positions. Particularly a Patriots defense who lacked credible speed at the LB level.

Maybe Rudolph starts his HOF career on Sunday. Maybe Fichtner has a set of plays and formations that he hasn't utilized to date that make Rudolph's job really easy. I mean if Fichtner is able to provide the same pre-snap keys to Rudolph, the straightforward reads, big open passing windows, and multiple skill position players in "mismatches" with their defenders as the Eagle's staff did for Foles, then sure -- giddy-up. But somehow...I doubt it.

It has taken me a long time to get here, but I have to finally concede that at the coordinator level, this team is a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest. I still truly believe Tomlin is a top-tier HC, but he needs to replace almost the entire staff. Butler continuing to have no answer for empty sets or being unable to communicate and teach his players the answer is simply inexcusable at this point. Austin and Bradley are both intended to teach the secondary to identify and react to stuff. They have just replicated the same mental errors as every previous year. It is early, but unless something changes -- people gotta go.

Fichtner et al had all off-season to come up with something. They just did apparently nothing and had no contingency plan for WRs being awful.

One week of looking like a team with a plan and a set of consistent ideas would completely reverse my thinking, but the final straw for me is that I can not even see the ideas anymore. Plays just seem to be being called at random.

[Shoes]

Watching the Badgers stomp Michigan and just wishing that Leonard was magically hired as DC.


His name has come up here in the past. I mean why not?

[Edman]

Bellyaching about Bell and Brown will do no good. They were incredible talents and will never be "replaced".

I believe the issue is that the Steelers went on as business as usual, and we've seen that no...that doesn't work. James Conner is not a replacement for Le'Veon Bell. James Conner is James Conner, and Donte Moncrief made painfully aware he is not Antonio Brown. This is why people are so down on the coaching and coordinators of this team. They take a square-peg round hole approach when it comes to their players and playcalling. They believe they can run some kind of fantastic spread offense with Ben, when Ben is not that kind of quarterback, and the Steelers have nowhere near the talent at receiver as they used to. They went into Foxboro before the season with this offense, even when it was clearly a bad idea. Donte Moncrief still saw the field despite sucking massive chode.

I believe if Ben didn't hurt his elbow, the Steelers would've kept doing the same thing, even though it clearly wasn't working. That is a scary thought.

[Mojouw]

Bellyaching about Bell and Brown will do no good. They were incredible talents and will never be "replaced".

I believe the issue is that the Steelers went on as business as usual, and we've seen that no...that doesn't work. James Conner is not a replacement for Le'Veon Bell. James Conner is James Conner, and Donte Moncrief made painfully aware he is not Antonio Brown. This is why people are so down on the coaching and coordinators of this team. They take a square-peg round hole approach when it comes to their players and playcalling. They believe they can run some kind of fantastic spread offense with Ben, when Ben is not that kind of quarterback, and the Steelers have nowhere near the talent at receiver as they used to. They went into Foxboro before the season with this offense, even when it was clearly a bad idea. Donte Moncrief still saw the field despite sucking massive chode.

I believe if Ben didn't hurt his elbow, the Steelers would've kept doing the same thing, even though it clearly wasn't working. That is a scary thought.

Agreed. I only brought up Bell and Brown because previous and current OC's have been pretty darn good at moving their elite talents around the board to manipulate defenses. What the first two weeks showed me is that you are on the right track with your thoughts that the OC had no alternative plan when something else was/is needed to manipulate defenses into a preferential match-up.

I will say, the more I think about it, that it is possible that if Moncrief doesn't have a sub-Limas Sweed first two weeks, that things look a bit different. Clearly no one was bothering to respect him as a threat. Hopefully the insertion of DJ into the line-up creates some sort of potential match-up issues for a defense. So far, there isn't. Across the board, not a single defender or DC is "worried" about any individual player or scheme the Steelers are rolling out.

I hate to say it and no one is going to like it, but at what point does the discussion that Juju isn't really that good in the top WR role? Certainly not the top-flight impact talent that everyone was hoping for. I mean he isn't even drawing double coverage...

[Edman]

Agreed. I only brought up Bell and Brown because previous and current OC's have been pretty darn good at moving their elite talents around the board to manipulate defenses. What the first two weeks showed me is that you are on the right track with your thoughts that the OC had no alternative plan when something else was/is needed to manipulate defenses into a preferential match-up.

I will say, the more I think about it, that it is possible that if Moncrief doesn't have a sub-Limas Sweed first two weeks, that things look a bit different. Clearly no one was bothering to respect him as a threat. Hopefully the insertion of DJ into the line-up creates some sort of potential match-up issues for a defense. So far, there isn't. Across the board, not a single defender or DC is "worried" about any individual player or scheme the Steelers are rolling out.

I hate to say it and no one is going to like it, but at what point does the discussion that Juju isn't really that good in the top WR role? Certainly not the top-flight impact talent that everyone was hoping for. I mean he isn't even drawing double coverage...

I will admit it, he is not top-flight. Not yet.

Juju thrives in the slot position. He is not that good on the outside. That's likely why the Steelers promoted Diontae Johnson to the starting lineup despite being a rookie. Johnson and James Washington on the outside. Juju in the slot.

So to give the coaching staff credit, at least they're trying to move Juju to where he is at his strongest and make things easy for Rudolph and everyone else.

[AtlantaDan]

Fichtner et al had all off-season to come up with something. They just did apparently nothing and had no contingency plan for WRs being awful.

Even assuming Fichtner had the skill set to design a new Rosetta Stone, good luck getting the franchise QB to learn it or simply check out of the play to something else from the old system that he preferred

When a journeyman like Fichtner was promoted to OC after not calling plays for 20 years the team was committed to going on offense as far as Ben could take them and not change a thing unless Ben wanted to or Ben retired

Fichtner getting the freedom to actually act like an OC and possibly shake things up for now is only because Ben is out

[Shoes]

Agreed. I only brought up Bell and Brown because previous and current OC's have been pretty darn good at moving their elite talents around the board to manipulate defenses. What the first two weeks showed me is that you are on the right track with your thoughts that the OC had no alternative plan when something else was/is needed to manipulate defenses into a preferential match-up.

I will say, the more I think about it, that it is possible that if Moncrief doesn't have a sub-Limas Sweed first two weeks, that things look a bit different. Clearly no one was bothering to respect him as a threat. Hopefully the insertion of DJ into the line-up creates some sort of potential match-up issues for a defense. So far, there isn't. Across the board, not a single defender or DC is "worried" about any individual player or scheme the Steelers are rolling out.

I hate to say it and no one is going to like it, but at what point does the discussion that Juju isn't really that good in the top WR role? Certainly not the top-flight impact talent that everyone was hoping for. I mean he isn't even drawing double coverage...

Does the talent really matter with the Steelers? This team had the best WR's & HOF QB in the NFL for 10 years or so and they still fizzled out. How many years did we hear 30 plus points every game? I say there is something else wrong here and I hate to say it but I believe it's a FO on down issue. Hopefully, Mason can take the bull by the horns and Fichtner is finally able to function as an OC and make something work with what is on the table. Meanwhile back at the ranch, Butler is singing "Hallelujah!" because they picked up Fitz.

[Edman]

[/B]
Does the talent really matter with the Steelers? This team had the best WR's & HOF QB in the NFL for 10 years or so and they still fizzled out. How many years did we hear 30 plus points every game? I say there is something else wrong here and I hate to say it but I believe it's a FO on down issue. Hopefully, Mason can take the bull by the horns and Fichtner is finally able to function as an OC and make something work with what is on the table. Meanwhile back at the ranch, Butler is singing "Hallelujah!" because they picked up Fitz.

Look at the Sean McVay miracle in Los Angeles.

The Rams were horrible. Jared Goff looked well on his way to being the busts of busts, and Todd Gurley looked finished in 2016. McVay singularly transformed those two into All-pros. Was Sean McVay some kind of offensive genius? Was Jared Goff just horrible? Nope. He just looked Goff and Gurley and saw that their talents were being misused, and built an Offense to maximize their talents. From one of the absolute worst Offenses in the League, to a juggernaut within a year.

[GoSlash27]

If the bottom falls out at least we’ll have a high draft pick.

Oh wait...

If the bottom falls out at least we'll get rid of the bandwagon fans. Unfortunately, the "fire everyone" crowd will go into overdrive...

[Mojouw]

[/B]
Does the talent really matter with the Steelers? This team had the best WR's & HOF QB in the NFL for 10 years or so and they still fizzled out. How many years did we hear 30 plus points every game? I say there is something else wrong here and I hate to say it but I believe it's a FO on down issue. Hopefully, Mason can take the bull by the horns and Fichtner is finally able to function as an OC and make something work with what is on the table. Meanwhile back at the ranch, Butler is singing "Hallelujah!" because they picked up Fitz.

I think that talent absolutely does matter. The thirty points a game thing is kinda like a slugger setting the goal of 50 home runs. Few every get there, but enough do that it is possible to aspire to. I’m not gonna then knock the guy for only swatting 38 homers. Same with the Steelers only scoring like 25-28 per game. Once they got efficient in the red zone, I was kinda fine with the points scored.

I know scheme can really help with a lot on an offense, but if not one can shake a DB during the course of a route, might not matter.

[HollywoodSteel]

If the bottom falls out at least we'll get rid of the bandwagon fans. Unfortunately, the "fire everyone" crowd will go into overdrive...

How does getting rid of bandwagon fans help with anything?
What do bandwagon fans do to interfere with your own fandom?

Not judging. Just curious. I never understood the bandwagon fan problem

[Shoes]

I think that talent absolutely does matter. The thirty points a game thing is kinda like a slugger setting the goal of 50 home runs. Few every get there, but enough do that it is possible to aspire to. I’m not gonna then knock the guy for only swatting 38 homers. Same with the Steelers only scoring like 25-28 per game. Once they got efficient in the red zone, I was kinda fine with the points scored.

I know scheme can really help with a lot on an offense, but if not one can shake a DB during the course of a route, might not matter.

Sure talent matters and with coaching it will go a long way. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. The fact is this team was loaded with talent, but I digress. These topics keep going round and round. Looking forward to a strong win tomorrow.

[Edman]

I think that talent absolutely does matter. The thirty points a game thing is kinda like a slugger setting the goal of 50 home runs. Few every get there, but enough do that it is possible to aspire to. I’m not gonna then knock the guy for only swatting 38 homers. Same with the Steelers only scoring like 25-28 per game. Once they got efficient in the red zone, I was kinda fine with the points scored.

I know scheme can really help with a lot on an offense, but if not one can shake a DB during the course of a route, might not matter.

Talent didn't save the Steelers from losing a shootout to Blake Bortles. Or losing to the 2-10 Raiders last season.

I'm sorry, this whole "talent" thing rings hollow when the Steelers with their "talent" didn't win anything for ten years. Is it good to have good players that aren't complete crap? Yes. But if talent is all you have, then what does it matter? The Killer B-Era Steelers had "talent". But it got them nothing.

[Mojouw]

Talent didn't save the Steelers from losing a shootout to Blake Bortles. Or losing to the 2-10 Raiders last season.

I'm sorry, this whole "talent" thing rings hollow when the Steelers with their "talent" didn't win anything for ten years. Is it good to have good players that aren't complete crap? Yes. But if talent is all you have, then what does it matter? The Killer B-Era Steelers had "talent". But it got them nothing.

You gotta have talent and a plan. Never said different. The Killer Bs era offense was almost always good enough. The plan and/or talent on defense never was.

So now there's a less talented roster with potential the same plan? That's shaping up to be one big yuck.