Goats thread vs. Seahawks

[Edman]

Mason Rudolph was the only player worth a shit. Thanks for your service Rudolph, helluvan effort. Now go rot on the bench.

Nothing much else more to say. Steelers outclassed on coaching once again. Keith Butler gets a good jump on Offenses, then they adjust and he's fucked. Absolutely did not have an answer for Russell Wilson, swing passes or the Tight End in the second half.

I wish nothing but misery for the New Orleans Saints from here on. Kick their ass, Rams.

Randy Fichtner will never amount to anything more than an average OC.

Moncrief needs to take the next bus away from Pittsburgh and never return.

[st33lersguy]

Gameball to Rudolph who looked pretty good for his first start against a not bad Seahawks defense. TJ Watt is also a beast and Tuitt probably helped prevent the game from getting out of hand

Goat goes to Sweedcrief, the rest of the defense (especially the pass defense). Also coaching is still trash

[Fire Goodell]

The entire defense and Butler. 4 drives in a row he failed to stop? I'm sure glad we spent so many first round picks on this pile of shit D

Moncrief yeah enough said, the benching should have happened much much earlier

Game ball Mason

[BlackAndGold]

Defense is still a joke despite the high round draft picks they added.

What is the excuse now?

[86WARD]

Moncrief lost the game for Pittsburgh. I loved the signing. Thought a real QB would help him...it’s only made him worse..hard to like that signing at this stage.

Goats are Moncrief, Chickillo, Dupree, Coaching.

Game Balls go to Rudolph, Watt and Tuitt.

[fansince'76]

About the only positive is that it's starting to look like they won't be completely screwed at QB once Ben hangs them up.

[stillers4me]

Well lookie...we at least have some game balls this week. #progress

[st33lersguy]

I actually legitimately think the offense was better with Rudolph in the game.

[86WARD]

I actually legitimately think the offense was better with Rudolph in the game.

Unless they were calling totally different plays, Rudolph got rid of the ball faster than Ben did...or at least it appeared that way.

[Steeldude]

This is what a team looks like without coaching or football players. They have athletes on the team, but no one to coach them or put them in positions to do well.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I actually legitimately think the offense was better with Rudolph in the game. Samuels as well over Conner.

[st33lersguy]

Samuels as well over Conner.

I like Samuels as well

[HollywoodSteel]

I just hate football and how it really works.

As “under achieving” as we were with Bell and AB, we always had a chance to win. Talent is simply more important than chemistry. Drama is a byproduct of losing FAR MORE than a cause of losing.

I really wish this whole “addition by subtraction” were a real thing, but it isn’t. Ben just isn’t Brady. He needs playmakers to win their battles and get open. So far Ben doesn’t elevate anyone else’s game.

And as much as I hate all the repetitive “fire Tomlin” posts, I’m starting to believe that Tomlin can’t really elevate anyone either. He’s fine as a leader of men when those men are incredibly talented.

Maybe I’m just down in the dumps and emotional, but it pisses me off to see every possible thing go right for the Patriots and nothing going right for us.

It wouldn’t exactly surprise me for this team to turn it around at some point and stack some wins, but I no longer expect anything. We absolutely had a talented enough team last year to beat the Pats, and we should have won at New Orleans, yet we totally regressed, even with additions at defense.

If that’s not on the coaches... I’m not sure what coaching is even for.

[j-d-s]

Moncrief lost the game for Pittsburgh. I loved the signing. Thought a real QB would help him...it’s only made him worse..hard to like that signing at this stage.

Goats are Moncrief, Chickillo, Dupree, Coaching.

Game Balls go to Rudolph, Watt and Tuitt.

Moncrief basically is the reincarnation of "Stone Hands" DHB. Minus the speed and special teams skills that DHB had.

I mean, if he drops the passes is it too much to ask to at least NOT tip them into the air?

Without that Interception we win this game.

Also, Rudolph DID have a better game than Big Ben, especially because that Interception is definitely solely on Moncrief, it was a pretty good pass by Rudolph.

[BlackAndGold]

1173338727424438273

[steelreserve]

Moncrief would have singlehandedly cost us the game, if the defense didn't suck so bad that it might have blown it anyway. Hey, so good news for him, I guess he looks a little better by comparison.

Edmunds' number is 34, the reverse of 43, and so far he looks like the reverse Polamalu. I forget he's even on the team until I see him getting beaten in coverage or picking up a penalty. He and Davis are the embodiment of what's wrong with the defense, great athletes, too slow understanding what is happening on the field in front of them.

Dupree is what I keep saying, a $10 million nothing. Glad we've got him around filling a roster spot. What would we do if that was someone else?

Barron and Nelson actually looked better in the first half, I guess that's encouraging. Tuitt and Watt were the only thing preventing a complete defensive collapse, though.

Rudolph was the only real silver lining in this game. The guy gets how to play quarterback. Might have won the game for us if Moncrief wasnt such a complete fuck-up. What the hell is he still doing in the lineup?

Pass interference review is bullshit, a stop needs to be put to that in the next, like, 20 seconds.

Overall, the leadership of this team seems nonexistent, and from the top down we are very slow to recognize problems and make changes, which can be a good thing when there are no problems and none are warranted, but a very bad thing otherwise.

[BlackAndGold]

Gameball to the locker room for being united and stuff.

[Mojouw]

Terryl Austin and Tim Bradley. It is their DBs that are constantly out of position and late to read their keys.

It was another week of the actual defensive alignment looking halfway decent and then a CB would blitz and the safety would be 3 days late in filling the open area. Combine that with the safeties and LBs being totally unable to communicate how covers the TE and this is all pretty easy to explain.

I totally understand that the buck stops at the top with Tomlin and then Butler. But Austin and Bradley were specifically brought in to fix the terrible play by the DBs. They ain't fixed anything.

[Steeler-in-west]

Terryl Austin and Tim Bradley. It is their DBs that are constantly out of position and late to read their keys.

It was another week of the actual defensive alignment looking halfway decent and then a CB would blitz and the safety would be 3 days late in filling the open area. Combine that with the safeties and LBs being totally unable to communicate how covers the TE and this is all pretty easy to explain.

I totally understand that the buck stops at the top with Tomlin and then Butler. But Austin and Bradley were specifically brought in to fix the terrible play by the DBs. They ain't fixed anything.

mistakes may start with the DB coach, but if left unaddressed it does go up the chain. This is week 2 already....

[steelreserve]

Terryl Austin and Tim Bradley. It is their DBs that are constantly out of position and late to read their keys.

It was another week of the actual defensive alignment looking halfway decent and then a CB would blitz and the safety would be 3 days late in filling the open area. Combine that with the safeties and LBs being totally unable to communicate how covers the TE and this is all pretty easy to explain.

I totally understand that the buck stops at the top with Tomlin and then Butler. But Austin and Bradley were specifically brought in to fix the terrible play by the DBs. They ain't fixed anything.

While we are talking about the same problem here - is it not also possible that the root cause is the players cannot execute because they have the football IQ of a not-too-bright cow, and that is why they are always 5 yards out of position?

The terrible performance of Edmunds, Davis, and Burns all plays out the same way as a kid who always had three steps on everybody because he was just a better athlete, and it didn't matter that his instincts were wrong because that was only two steps' worth of fucking up. Then suddenly he doesn't have that three-step advantage anymore because everybody's just as good of an athlete. So he's just a regular guy whose reactions are slow and instincts are poor, and it doesn't really matter what the coaches say or where they line him up, the result will be the same. (You could apply the exact same reasoning to Dupree, only with power.)

We really need to stop drafting those kinds of players. Prioritizing a quarter-step of physical quickness at the expense of three steps of reactions and positioning. No way to fix that, those picks are just gone, and it sets you back for years. Whether we want to pretend otherwise with wishful thinking or not.

[Steeldude]

1173338727424438273

Poor coaching, again. It's just like Harrison said.

[BlackAndGold]

Poor coaching, again. It's just like Harrison said.

This is true. It's been a consistent theme for this team.

[steelreserve]

Poor coaching, again. It's just like Harrison said.

If you look at the wide angle of that same play, there was a safety hanging way back about 20 yards deep, which is off the screen. I remember thinking what a weird looking formation that was.

[Mojouw]

While we are talking about the same problem here - is it not also possible that the root cause is the players cannot execute because they have the football IQ of a not-too-bright cow, and that is why they are always 5 yards out of position?

The terrible performance of Edmunds, Davis, and Burns all plays out the same way as a kid who always had three steps on everybody because he was just a better athlete, and it didn't matter that his instincts were wrong because that was only two steps' worth of fucking up. Then suddenly he doesn't have that three-step advantage anymore because everybody's just as good of an athlete. So he's just a regular guy whose reactions are slow and instincts are poor, and it doesn't really matter what the coaches say or where they line him up, the result will be the same. (You could apply the exact same reasoning to Dupree, only with power.)

We really need to stop drafting those kinds of players. Prioritizing a quarter-step of physical quickness at the expense of three steps of reactions and positioning. No way to fix that, those picks are just gone, and it sets you back for years. Whether we want to pretend otherwise with wishful thinking or not.

I've been kinda thinking along those lines for several years now. Why I have never been convinced that a change in coaching staff would really matter.

On the other hand, this team now has a heady group of savvy WRs that can't get open and/or catch because their physical abilities are not up to the NFL level.

On defense we can see what happens when you put in guys like Matakevich, Dangerfield, Bostic, and Chickillo. Often totally good football IQs but they get beat like a drum because they simply can't athletically compete.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

- - - Updated - - -


If you look at the wide angle of that same play, there was a safety hanging way back about 20 yards deep, which is off the screen. I remember thinking what a weird looking formation that was.

I remember the same thing. The safety was basically standing at the first down marker.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Gameball to the locker room for being united and stuff.

Yes! ...and the won the turnover margin, so they can brag about that.

[Iron Steeler]

The team showed Grit. Not caving when they lost Ben.
Game Balls.
Mason Rudolph.
TJ Watt.
Devin Bush.

A few more games like this from Mason Rudolph we will have a QB contrevorsy. who woulda thunk it.

[steelreserve]

I've been kinda thinking along those lines for several years now. Why I have never been convinced that a change in coaching staff would really matter.

On the other hand, this team now has a heady group of savvy WRs that can't get open and/or catch because their physical abilities are not up to the NFL level.

On defense we can see what happens when you put in guys like Matakevich, Dangerfield, Bostic, and Chickillo. Often totally good football IQs but they get beat like a drum because they simply can't athletically compete.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.


My thinking was that with a different coach, maybe we would stop drafting those kinds of players and having no idea what to do with them. Or just stop chasing red herrings.

There are a lot of guys who are not quite the "freak raw athlete" types that we have a boner for. While a freak athlete who is not raw is a top-10 pick - there are plenty who are not raw, but are still NFL-level athletes. And other good athletes whose "rawness" is simply inexperience, not an inadequate understanding of the game to make it at the pro level.

The fundamentally sound, athletically disadvantaged guys like Chickillo, Makatevich, Bostic - those guys are sixth-round picks for a reason. There is a whole range of athletic ability and football IQ that you go through before you get to that level. Usually with a first or second-round pick, you can still get a really good athlete no matter what, who is also not a meathead.

[Born2Steel]

Rudolph gets a game ball for coming in and playing like a backup QB is supposed to. Ready with the entire playbook open to him. Good job.

The defense played well enough to keep us in the game just not well enough to win it for us. Game ball to the defense.

Goats to dropped passes, penalties, blown assignments, and crying fans.

[Mojouw]

My thinking was that with a different coach, maybe we would stop drafting those kinds of players and having no idea what to do with them. Or just stop chasing red herrings.

There are a lot of guys who are not quite the "freak raw athlete" types that we have a boner for. While a freak athlete who is not raw is a top-10 pick - there are plenty who are not raw, but are still NFL-level athletes. And other good athletes whose "rawness" is simply inexperience, not an inadequate understanding of the game to make it at the pro level.

The fundamentally sound, athletically disadvantaged guys like Chickillo, Makatevich, Bostic - those guys are sixth-round picks for a reason. There is a whole range of athletic ability and football IQ that you go through before you get to that level. Usually with a first or second-round pick, you can still get a really good athlete no matter what, who is also not a meathead.

I don't think this is a Tomlin thing. I think it is Colbert's new jam post Jarvis Jones. He used to be all about # of starts at a big time program and production. Jarvis broke him. He is no never going to "waste" a 1st round pick on a guy without high end NFL athleticism.

[86WARD]

10 men on the field...lol.

[86WARD]

Terryl Austin and Tim Bradley. It is their DBs that are constantly out of position and late to read their keys.

It was another week of the actual defensive alignment looking halfway decent and then a CB would blitz and the safety would be 3 days late in filling the open area. Combine that with the safeties and LBs being totally unable to communicate how covers the TE and this is all pretty easy to explain.

I totally understand that the buck stops at the top with Tomlin and then Butler. But Austin and Bradley were specifically brought in to fix the terrible play by the DBs. They ain't fixed anything.

Two gurus that can’t coach a unit up...ugh...

[steelreserve]

I don't think this is a Tomlin thing. I think it is Colbert's new jam post Jarvis Jones. He used to be all about # of starts at a big time program and production. Jarvis broke him. He is no never going to "waste" a 1st round pick on a guy without high end NFL athleticism.

It could be that Colbert is drafting uncoachable players, or that Tomlin can't coach players who need even a little help to be NFL-ready ... or it could be a bit of both. But player development has been abysmal on this team for 10 years and has recently gotten even worse.

I think it goes beyond just Colbert handing bad players to Tomlin. First of all, Tomlin either has a large say in the players being drafted, or if not, something's terribly wrong.

Second, this was a problem well before Jarvis Jones. The offensive line used to really suck. Then we spent four or five R1 and R2 picks on it in a row, and it still sucked. Then we got a position coach who knew what he was doing, and the same guys turned into one of the best lines in football. Same guys. We also seem to consistently have trouble finding depth in the mid to late rounds - except at a handful of positions, the players we take there (if they make the team at all) mostly end up being bad even for backups. With a coach who is decent at player development, you would expect some of those 4th and 6th round project picks to go the other way.

[Edman]

It could be that Colbert is drafting uncoachable players, or that Tomlin can't coach players who need even a little help to be NFL-ready ... or it could be a bit of both. But player development has been abysmal on this team for 10 years and has recently gotten even worse.

I think it goes beyond just Colbert handing bad players to Tomlin. First of all, Tomlin either has a large say in the players being drafted, or if not, something's terribly wrong.

Second, this was a problem well before Jarvis Jones. The offensive line used to really suck. Then we spent four or five R1 and R2 picks on it in a row, and it still sucked. Then we got a position coach who knew what he was doing, and the same guys turned into one of the best lines in football. Same guys. We also seem to consistently have trouble finding depth in the mid to late rounds - except at a handful of positions, the players we take there (if they make the team at all) mostly end up being bad even for backups. With a coach who is decent at player development, you would expect some of those 4th and 6th round project picks to go the other way.

The Offensive Line woes also disappeared when Ben was weaned away from backyard ball under Todd Haley's offense. Haley and Munchak ironically proceeded to find work after they left Pittsburgh.

Who, on this current coaching staff do you see going elsewhere and being a commodity?

[Mojouw]

It could be that Colbert is drafting uncoachable players, or that Tomlin can't coach players who need even a little help to be NFL-ready ... or it could be a bit of both. But player development has been abysmal on this team for 10 years and has recently gotten even worse.

I think it goes beyond just Colbert handing bad players to Tomlin. First of all, Tomlin either has a large say in the players being drafted, or if not, something's terribly wrong.

Second, this was a problem well before Jarvis Jones. The offensive line used to really suck. Then we spent four or five R1 and R2 picks on it in a row, and it still sucked. Then we got a position coach who knew what he was doing, and the same guys turned into one of the best lines in football. Same guys. We also seem to consistently have trouble finding depth in the mid to late rounds - except at a handful of positions, the players we take there (if they make the team at all) mostly end up being bad even for backups. With a coach who is decent at player development, you would expect some of those 4th and 6th round project picks to go the other way.

I don’t know if I can agree with all of that. Most NFL teams are struggling with offensive lineman. NCAA lines just don’t play like the pros do anymore. Munchack coached up Gilbert, Fieler, and AV - but Foster, Pouncey, and DeCastro were already in place and playing pretty darn well. Let’s not forget Beachum and how well he played for the Steelers and how bad he played elsewhere.

I think Steelers hit on more of their post 4th round picks than most teams. Not all teams, but most.

It would be interesting to see who is and isn’t doing well at player development across the league. Wonder how best to define and measure it? Percent of snaps might be a good start...

[Hawkman]

The Offensive Line woes also disappeared when Ben was weaned away from backyard ball under Todd Haley's offense. Haley and Munchak ironically proceeded to find work after they left Pittsburgh.

Who, on this current coaching staff do you see going elsewhere and being a commodity?

.....and Haley is working where now? How soon after he was hired by Cleveland was he fired? Fine example to prove your point.

[Mojouw]

The Offensive Line woes also disappeared when Ben was weaned away from backyard ball under Todd Haley's offense. Haley and Munchak ironically proceeded to find work after they left Pittsburgh.

Who, on this current coaching staff do you see going elsewhere and being a commodity?


.....and Haley is working where now? How soon after he was hired by Cleveland was he fired? Fine example to prove your point.

Tomlin has been in the league a long time and winning a good percentage of games, but he has no NFL coaching tree. He hires old coaches who no one wants to invest in. Plus they don’t seem to be that good.

Honestly is enyone besides Tomlin and the new o-line guy under 60 years old on this staff?

NEW IDEAS ARE NOT BAD THINGS.

[Shoes]

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/09/steelers-vs-seahawks-winners-losers/

[Hawkman]

Tomlin has been in the league a long time and winning a good percentage of games, but he has no NFL coaching tree. He hires old coaches who no one wants to invest in. Plus they don’t seem to be that good.

Honestly is enyone besides Tomlin and the new o-line guy under 60 years old on this staff?

NEW IDEAS ARE NOT BAD THINGS.

I’m all in favor of fresh blood if it makes sense. But getting sick of the “scorched earth” mentality around here when it comes to every one from ownership to the water boy. It leaches in to almost every thread. Makes it hard to decide which threads are worth reading.

[Mojouw]

I’m all in favor of fresh blood if it makes sense. But getting sick of the “scorched earth” mentality around here when it comes to every one from ownership to the water boy. It leaches in to almost every thread. Makes it hard to decide which threads are worth reading.

Agreed. I just get frustrated that when they do replace a coach it is with some retread from somewhere or other.

[Hawkman]

Agreed. I just get frustrated that when they do replace a coach it is with some retread from somewhere or other.

I think the Oline replacement was a good call because he is young and a disciple on Munch, but yeah, Butler and Fichtner may have a comfort factor thing. I would like to have seen more of an open interview. Still have 14 games. A lot of football to go. No coach is fired until after the season.

[DesertSteel]

0-2.... I've been a Rudolph fan since they drafted him. His play didn't surprise me. I'm not dreading Ben's last game at all. This is not based just on today, but just what I see in him. Wilson is a tough quarterback to come back against. One of the best. But the defense sucked in the second half.

On to SF... Here's to 1-2

[86WARD]

Tomlin has been in the league a long time and winning a good percentage of games, but he has no NFL coaching tree. He hires old coaches who no one wants to invest in. Plus they don’t seem to be that good.

Honestly is enyone besides Tomlin and the new o-line guy under 60 years old on this staff?

NEW IDEAS ARE NOT BAD THINGS.

Yes, yes, yes!!! All of Tomlins coordinators are holdover or “next in line” type guys. This team needs all new coaches. Fine..,keep Tomlin, but the rest has to change. Danny Smith should’ve been gone before LeBeau. Butler should’ve been gone two years ago and Fichtner...lol...he’s not an OC...he should’ve never been promoted to that job. So now you have three stale pieces of garbage and it’s too much to change all at one time so they’ll all be here for 2 more seasons at the very least. Worst coaching group of coordinators in the league.

[86WARD]

0-2.... I've been a Rudolph fan since they drafted him. His play didn't surprise me. I'm not dreading Ben's last game at all. This is not based just on today, but just what I see in him. Wilson is a tough quarterback to come back against. One of the best. But the defense sucked in the second half.

On to SF... Here's to 1-2

That’ll be 0-3...

[steelreserve]

I don’t know if I can agree with all of that. Most NFL teams are struggling with offensive lineman. NCAA lines just don’t play like the pros do anymore. Munchack coached up Gilbert, Fieler, and AV - but Foster, Pouncey, and DeCastro were already in place and playing pretty darn well. Let’s not forget Beachum and how well he played for the Steelers and how bad he played elsewhere.

I think Steelers hit on more of their post 4th round picks than most teams. Not all teams, but most.

It would be interesting to see who is and isn’t doing well at player development across the league. Wonder how best to define and measure it? Percent of snaps might be a good start...

It would be hard to say. I don't really know what a good metric is to define success ... on the other hand, "we have a lot of late-round backups who are shitty players" is a start. I don't honestly know whether that means we are drafting badly, or keeping players like Chickillo and McCullers around way too long when it's clear they're not going to develop, but something feels kind of dumb about it.

And Munchak makes comparisons tough, because he probably made a lot of players who really WERE sub-par into serviceable ones, when almost no other coach could have.

Didn't Beachum also have a serious knee injury in the offseason when he left Pittsburgh? That might at least explain that one.

[DesertSteel]

That’ll be 0-3...
I’m not rolling that way. I’m still holding to a 2-2 start. The only thing Tomlin is good for is rallying the troops in adversity.

[86WARD]

I’m not rolling that way. I’m still holding to a 2-2 start. The only thing Tomlin is good for is rallying the troops in adversity.

All that goes out the window when he travels west...that losing on the west coast may be the only thing he is consistent with.

[stillers4me]

The refs: :alcoholic:

1173398482364882944

[Mojouw]

It would be hard to say. I don't really know what a good metric is to define success ... on the other hand, "we have a lot of late-round backups who are shitty players" is a start. I don't honestly know whether that means we are drafting badly, or keeping players like Chickillo and McCullers around way too long when it's clear they're not going to develop, but something feels kind of dumb about it.

And Munchak makes comparisons tough, because he probably made a lot of players who really WERE sub-par into serviceable ones, when almost no other coach could have.

Didn't Beachum also have a serious knee injury in the offseason when he left Pittsburgh? That might at least explain that one.

You might be right on Beachum. Hard to say with Munchak. On keeping guys around too long, I'm split. Chickillo is an example of too long. McCullers is an example of hanging on another year and it bears a bit of fruit. Big Dan is no great shakes, but he is a servicable depth NT at this point. It took forever, but he now is a credible back-up DL.

[steel striker]

Mason came and, did a great job and, TJ Watt is awesome. Please cut Moncreif! The defense needs to tackle better!

[86WARD]

Rudolph gets a game ball for coming in and playing like a backup QB is supposed to. Ready with the entire playbook open to him. Good job.

The defense played well enough to keep us in the game just not well enough to win it for us. Game ball to the defense.

Goats to dropped passes, penalties, blown assignments, and crying fans.

League wide, penalties are up 46% over last year. 46%...That is ASTRONOMICAL. 46%!