Better team. The Ravens or the Browns

[Six Rings]

The Ravens have a top defense, solid coaching and very good special teams.

The Browns suddenly have a good offense, at least on paper.

Which one of these teams is our chief rival in 2019?

One thing is clear, we need to go 4-2 in our division if we want to make the playoffs. 3-3 means our margin for error is thin.

[polamalubeast]

On paper?...The Browns

On the field?...I predict it's going to be the Ravens

[Fire Goodell]

Ravens. That might change over the course of the year but I always expect the Ravens to be one of the toughest matchups each year

[cubanstogie]

Ravens until proven otherwise. Im not jumping on the Browns being playoff team bandwagon. They are still the Browns and Im in denial about Mayfield becoming a star. I see them with a drama filled year.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think the Browns. They have more talent and since punting Hue Jackson they have some decent coaching and culture IMO. Ravens have a running QB and lost a lot of that long standing pass rush talent. I don't trust a running QB to win consistently in the NFL.

[Born2Steel]

Since neither has played a game yet I have to say Browns. More talent top to bottom than the Ravens.

[Squeegee Thompson]

Ravens until proven otherwise. Im not jumping on the Browns being playoff team bandwagon. They are still the Browns and Im in denial about Mayfield becoming a star. I see them with a drama filled year.

I'm putting the over/under on an OBJ sideline meltdown at Week 5. Mayfield is on the fast-track to prima donna status, and their two best wideouts are already there. Throw in a rookie head coach with less than one season's experience as a coordinator, and I can already see the upcoming train wreck of egos in the distance after they drop 3 straight.

Cleveland reminds me so much of last year's Jaguars. They were coming off an incredible season, looked fantastic on paper. Then their hack of a head coach remembered that he was a hack of a head coach and they dropped a 5-11 turd. I have a feeling the Browns will disappoint in much the same way now that everyone's on their bandwagon. They won't be able to sneak up on anyone this year.

[Moose]

Ravens...because of defense and coaching.

[vasteeler]

Ravens, until the Browns can prove they're not the Browns

[Crow-Magnon]

Ravens, until the Browns can prove they're not the Browns

I agree. I think Cleveland has improved, but they have to prove themselves to me first.

[polamalubeast]

Outside of the passing offense, the Ravens are better in every other phase of the game ... Run offense, Run defense, pass defense, Coaching staff, Special teams, better leadership.

As someone said in post 7 of this thread, I would not be surprised to see the Browns implode at one point of the season with HC rookie and a lot of big personality in the locker room, especially if they have adversity ... maybe not a 5-11 season, but it's always hard for a team or player to deliver the hype, especially when the hype is very high.

[Six Rings]

Ravens, until the Browns can prove they're not the Browns



Aren't the Ravens the old Browns? :)

- - - Updated - - -


I agree. I think Cleveland has improved, but they have to prove themselves to me first.


Mayfield has proven he has the makings of a good NFL QB. Jackson fumbled a league high 10 times and has a thin build, meaning he's likely to get hurt sooner or later playing the way he does.

I think at the end of the season, the Browns will be better.

[HollywoodSteel]

Are the Ravens still the same defense they were last year without Suggs, Moseley, and Weddle? I know they got Earl Thomas who is maybe as good as he was before the broken leg, or maybe he isn’t.

I’m just saying, I think it’s okay to not assume the Ravens are as good as they were last year.

Also I don’t care how old Suggs was. A Ravens defense without him just doesn’t scare me anymore until they prove they’ve replaced him with someone just as scary.

[GoSlash27]

Ravens. Heavy talent doesn't trump solid coaching and fundamentals.

[HollywoodSteel]

Ravens. Heavy talent doesn't trump solid coaching and fundamentals.

I remember last year when Jon Harbaugh was totally on the hot seat. I think a fortunate end of year schedule and some luck breaks saved his job. Maybe even the Steelers missing a few kicks and being on the ass end of some horrible officiating saved his job as well.

I’m not saying Harbaugh is a bad coach, I just think he got a little lucky last year with a team that was not good enough to win the division without crazy help from the Steelers losing games we definitely should have won.

It basically will all come down to the Lamar Jackson gamble. As far as I’m concerned he’s the third best QB in the division at best.

I think the Ravens take a step back this year.

[polamalubeast]

Are the Ravens still the same defense they were last year without Suggs, Moseley, and Weddle? I know they got Earl Thomas who is maybe as good as he was before the broken leg, or maybe he isn’t.

I’m just saying, I think it’s okay to not assume the Ravens are as good as they were last year.

Also I don’t care how old Suggs was. A Ravens defense without him just doesn’t scare me anymore until they prove they’ve replaced him with someone just as scary.

Still maybe the best secondary in the NFL.

And last season the Ravens was second in points against and first in yards against...3rd in yards per play for their pass defense and second in yards per run for their run defense.Only weakness was the turnovers(17 only), but these are thing you can not always control.They can be better in the red zone defense too

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2018.htm

It will take more than that for the Ravens defense to collapse, especially since they have a culture established and continuity at this side of the ball(if we look at their result) for about 20 years with so many players and defensive coach.

[polamalubeast]

I remember last year when Jon Harbaugh was totally on the hot seat. I think a fortunate end of year schedule and some luck breaks saved his job. Maybe even the Steelers missing a few kicks and being on the ass end of some horrible officiating saved his job as well.

I’m not saying Harbaugh is a bad coach, I just think he got a little lucky last year with a team that was not good enough to win the division without crazy help from the Steelers losing games we definitely should have won.

It basically will all come down to the Lamar Jackson gamble. As far as I’m concerned he’s the third best QB in the division at best.

I think the Ravens take a step back this year.


Lucky?

First, even if the Steelers would have won this division, the Ravens would have been in the 6 seed, since they had the tie breaker over the Colts

Also, I do not know if we can say the Ravens were lucky last year ... Differencial + 102 in points for and against (6th best in the NFL) and they had tough loss too like the game against Saints when Justin Tucker missed an XP at the end of the game to tie the game and the game against the Chiefs in KC.

And in 2017, the Ravens were at a 4th and 12th stop away to make the playoff and a tackle away in 2016 to probably win the AFC north.

If they would not have made the playoffs again because of another tough loss at the end of the season, it would have been almost cruel for Harbaugh to have another heartbreaker finish for him.Sometimes you can not always be lucky or unlucky in life (except for Marty Schottenheimer!)

[GoSlash27]

I remember last year when Jon Harbaugh was totally on the hot seat. I think a fortunate end of year schedule and some luck breaks saved his job. Maybe even the Steelers missing a few kicks and being on the ass end of some horrible officiating saved his job as well.

I’m not saying Harbaugh is a bad coach, I just think he got a little lucky last year with a team that was not good enough to win the division without crazy help from the Steelers losing games we definitely should have won.

It basically will all come down to the Lamar Jackson gamble. As far as I’m concerned he’s the third best QB in the division at best.

I think the Ravens take a step back this year.

HS,
The Ravens have been weak for a while now, but I don't blame any of that on Harbaugh's coaching. The dude is solid IMO. I do agree that the Lamar Jackson experiment is a failure waiting to happen. But the Browns? They're still the same ol' Browns, just with a lot more swagger and hype. They've been loaded with talent for the past decade, so that's nothing new. They've been a hapless gaggle of raw talent all this time. Now they're a cocky hapless gaggle of raw talent.

[FrancoLambert]

Ravens...because of defense and coaching.

:iagree:

[st33lersguy]

I say Browns are better. Ravens lost a lot of key defensive pieces and I'm not sure Lamar Jackson can even throw a football. Plus that offense they plan to run will likely get him killed and then they'll wind up with RGIII who will himself get injured in 3 weeks. On paper the only thing I think the Ravens are better at playerwise is in the secondary

[Hawkman]

OMG another brilliant thread. Really....Hurricanes and football are just around the corner.

[teegre]

Aren't the Ravens the old Browns? :)


:applaudit:

That’s gold, Jerry... GOLD!!!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Aren't the Ravens the old Browns? :)


https://www.baltimoresun.com/resizer/r0AMMz6kvFHRsj3CiCgS7nPzvlc=/1200x0/top/www.trbimg.com/img-54188737/turbine/bal-coltsmove-pg0329-thumbnail

[teegre]

Browns

I’ve said for a while now that they are going to be dangerous. It is a proven formula. They have a young QB, and a loaded roster. Until Mayfield needs to get paid (in three more years) they are ripe to win it all. :nod: Yep, I said it.

In other words, the Browns remind me of the Seahawks right after the drafted Russell Wilson.

[Mojouw]

Browns

I’ve said for a while now that they are going to be dangerous. It is a proven formula. They have a young QB, and a loaded roster. Until Mayfield needs to get paid (in three more years) they are ripe to win it all. :nod: Yep, I said it.

In other words, the Browns remind me of the Seahawks right after the drafted Russell Wilson.

Yup. If Mayfield can operate behind a suspect o line (not unlike young Ben or Wilson) they are STACKED at almost every other position group.

Garrett and Vernon are going to rip that Titans front line apart Week 1.

[polamalubeast]

I have some doubts about the coaching of the Browns .... Not the same thing of being an OC (which was only half season) and being a HC and managed the entire lockerroom.Not many have been successful in this decade when you are promoted as HC inside of your organization.

1169134244683276289

Only Doug Marrone has had some success (2017), but he is now on the hot seat this year after a disastrous year last year.

[teegre]

Garrett and Vernon are going to rip that Titans front line apart Week 1.

Garrett is every bit as good as his draft position dictated... and, Olivier is proof that draft position means nothing.

[pczach]

Yup. If Mayfield can operate behind a suspect o line (not unlike young Ben or Wilson) they are STACKED at almost every other position group.

Garrett and Vernon are going to rip that Titans front line apart Week 1.



I think the Titans are going to make the Browns prove that they can stop the run. Garrett and the Browns can't rush the quarterback if they are getting the ball jammed down their throats all game.

I think the Titans have a good chance to win this game by running the football and play action passing off of that run game.

As for the thread subject. I say the Ravens are better until the Browns prove otherwise. The Browns haven't won in forever. They are getting talked up by everyone. For the first time in decades, they won't be sneaking up on everyone. They will have every team's attention and they will be the hunted. They have no idea what it's like to be a target on someone's schedule. I think they may find out about high expectations.

[polamalubeast]

I think the Titans are going to make the Browns prove that they can stop the run. Garrett and the Browns can't rush the quarterback if they are getting the ball jammed down their throats all game.

I think the Titans have a good chance to win this game by running the football and play action passing off of that run game.

As for the thread subject. I say the Ravens are better until the Browns prove otherwise. The Browns haven't won in forever. They are getting talked up by everyone. For the first time in decades, they won't be sneaking up on everyone. They will have every team's attention and they will be the hunted. They have no idea what it's like to be a target on someone's schedule. I think they may find out about high expectations.

The problem with the Titans for this game is their passing game and their O-line .... Easier to stop the Run when the opposing team has no passing game and unable to make big play when they need to make some.

The Titans have a very good defense, so their defense needs to keep the score down if they want to win.

[Mojouw]

I think the Titans are going to make the Browns prove that they can stop the run. Garrett and the Browns can't rush the quarterback if they are getting the ball jammed down their throats all game.

I think the Titans have a good chance to win this game by running the football and play action passing off of that run game.

As for the thread subject. I say the Ravens are better until the Browns prove otherwise. The Browns haven't won in forever. They are getting talked up by everyone. For the first time in decades, they won't be sneaking up on everyone. They will have every team's attention and they will be the hunted. They have no idea what it's like to be a target on someone's schedule. I think they may find out about high expectations.

I just saw the havoc the the Steelers brought to that Titans o line in preseason and figured the Browns will do even worse in a real game. I don't buy into the Titans as a credible team. They are locked solidly onto the path of being frauds again. They have talent but horrible coaching and when Tannehill outplays Mariota all preseason but you still role out Mariota as the starter, you know things are just going to get worse.

To the topic at hand, I am far more concerned about the Browns. Whether or not they live up to the hype this year, they are a stacked roster. The talent is built in waves so the cap won't force them into a horrible situation for 3-4 more years. The Browns have several players that you can "build a team around" the Ravens have maybe one with Jackson and the jury is still way out on him. Both teams will be competitive and the AFC North is shaping up to be one of the most competitive divisions in football. But the Browns are being built along the plan that the Seahawks, Eagles, and Rams have all ridden to a SB.

[polamalubeast]

One point that pczach mentioned in his last post in this thread and that this is very true is that because of the hype of the Browns, the opposing teams will be extra motivated when they play against this team ... Are the Browns ready for this challenge? .. We will see

[Squeegee Thompson]

I have some doubts about the coaching of the Browns .... Not the same thing of being an OC (which was only half season) and being a HC and managed the entire lockerroom.Not many have been successful in this decade when you are promoted as HC inside of your organization.

1169134244683276289

Only Doug Marrone has had some success (2017), but he is now on the hot seat this year after a disastrous year last year.

^This.

Kitchens has proven exactly nothing so far in his career. He's far more likely to turn out to be Pat Shurmer v2.0 than Sean Payton v2.0. Add to the mix that he's got some serious egos in the locker room, and a team that's loaded with hype, and I just don't see how this turns out well for him. Anything less than 11-5 with a deep playoff run and the fans will be calling for his head.

[HollywoodSteel]

I just saw the havoc the the Steelers brought to that Titans o line in preseason and figured the Browns will do even worse in a real game. I don't buy into the Titans as a credible team. They are locked solidly onto the path of being frauds again. They have talent but horrible coaching and when Tannehill outplays Mariota all preseason but you still role out Mariota as the starter, you know things are just going to get worse.

To the topic at hand, I am far more concerned about the Browns. Whether or not they live up to the hype this year, they are a stacked roster. The talent is built in waves so the cap won't force them into a horrible situation for 3-4 more years. The Browns have several players that you can "build a team around" the Ravens have maybe one with Jackson and the jury is still way out on him. Both teams will be competitive and the AFC North is shaping up to be one of the most competitive divisions in football. But the Browns are being built along the plan that the Seahawks, Eagles, and Rams have all ridden to a SB.

I agree that the Browns will destroy the Titans. The Titans are without Tayler Lewan because he’s suspended to start the season. Myles Garrett must be licking his chops.

Maybe you’ll get to see Tannehill after all when Mariotta doesn’t make it out of the first quarter. Then when Tannehill doesn’t survive the first half, we’ll find out who the Titans 3rd string QB is.

Hey, maybe this game helps us trade Josh Dobbs after all when the Titans run out of QBs to feed Myles Garrett.

[HollywoodSteel]

One point that pczach mentioned in his last post in this thread and that this is very true is that because of the hype of the Browns, the opposing teams will be extra motivated when they play against this team ... Are the Browns ready for this challenge? .. We will see

I’m not sure if I buy the whole target on the back thing. I’m still waiting for that to slow down the Patriots.

Really good teams are really good. And the Browns finally have their franchise QB. The only real unknown over there is coaching, but all I know is that they have someone other than Hue Jackson now, and that alone has to be worth about three more wins than last year.

[polamalubeast]

I’m not sure if I buy the whole target on the back thing. I’m still waiting for that to slow down the Patriots.

Really good teams are really good. And the Browns finally have their franchise QB. The only real unknown over there is coaching, but all I know is that they have someone other than Hue Jackson now, and that alone has to be worth about three more wins than last year.

Read this article please ... Even a player of the Titans talked about that!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/02/delanie-walker-hearing-browns-hype-all-cleveland-this-cleveland-that/

It does not mean it's impossible (like the Pats, but the big difference is that it's nothing new for them since they have it for over 15 years), but it's harder to win, week after week what you have a target on the back ... If the Browns are not ready for that, they will be a disappointment.

For the loss of Hue Jackson, he had been with the Browns last year only half a season last year ... 3 of their losses with Hue Jackson were against the Saints, Steelers and Chargers ... They had a tie game against the Steelers in another game too .... So yes Jackson was bad, but no way a HC like Freddie Kitchens, who was just a RB coach at the same time last year is worth over 3 wins over a HC that had been fired after 8 games.

[polamalubeast]

Prediction

The AFC north title is going to be won in week 17 in Baltimore between the Steelers the Ravens ... The winner will be the AFC North champion, the loser will be in the wild card and the Browns will play for pride once again in week 17, this time against the Bengals.

[Mojouw]

With the boring mediocrity that is most of the AFC, the North could send 3 teams to the playoffs. All at 9-7!

[polamalubeast]

With the boring mediocrity that is most of the AFC, the North could send 3 teams to the playoffs. All at 9-7!

We never know,I believe a wild card in the AFC is going to be in the AFC West...

[DesertSteel]

On paper?...The Browns

On the field?...I predict it's going to be the Ravens
I'd agree with that assessment.

[HollywoodSteel]

Read this article please ... Even a player of the Titans talked about that!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/02/delanie-walker-hearing-browns-hype-all-cleveland-this-cleveland-that/

It does not mean it's impossible (like the Pats, but the big difference is that it's nothing new for them since they have it for over 15 years), but it's harder to win, week after week what you have a target on the back ... If the Browns are not ready for that, they will be a disappointment.

For the loss of Hue Jackson, he had been with the Browns last year only half a season last year ... 3 of their losses with Hue Jackson were against the Saints, Steelers and Chargers ... They had a tie game against the Steelers in another game too .... So yes Jackson was bad, but no way a HC like Freddie Kitchens, who was just a RB coach at the same time last year is worth over 3 wins over a HC that had been fired after 8 games.

The thing I said about the lack of Hue Jackson being good for three wins in and of itself was a joke... sort of. :)