Thank The Lucky Stars For Bud Depree!

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

We could have drafted Shane Ray instead of him who I wanted that just got cut.

[HollywoodSteel]

I know Bud takes a lot of heat around here, and probably rightly so, but I am thankful we have him. Maybe I’m just drinking the cool aid but I think he’s going to have a really good year.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I know Bud takes a lot of heat around here, and probably rightly so, but I am thankful we have him. Maybe I’m just drinking the cool aid but I think he’s going to have a really good year. I agree with you and always was a decent player. I think he will have a good year as well.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I agree with you and always was a decent player. I think he will have a good year as well.

everyone criticizes the Dupree selection but when you look at who was drafted after him we could have done a lot worse:

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/4/30/8525229/2015-nfl-draft-results-pick-by-pick

[st33lersguy]

They could have also gotten Byron Jones, who I wanted with the pick at the time. He got 2nd team all-pro last year. They also could have gotten Landon Collins who has been first team all-pro. Works both ways.

There seems to be a mindset on here that simply taking up space for a period of time and not being outright comically bad is good enough. There is also a mindset to justify underwhelming performance by pointing to the failures of others.

Let's just say this, I am thankful they have TJ Watt, a player that has actually made a meaningful impact on the team

[steelreserve]

I know Bud takes a lot of heat around here, and probably rightly so, but I am thankful we have him. Maybe I’m just drinking the cool aid but I think he’s going to have a really good year.

My prediction is that he'll have a nagging injury that keeps him out of 3 or 4 non-consecutive games, and he will have very little impact, and people will be shameless apologists for him once again. If he sleepwalks into the standard 5 or 6 sacks that you get just for showing up, there will be talk of re-signing him for upwards of $10 million a year, and before you know it we will make the 50-IQ play and actually do it. Pisses me off already, because you know it's true.



everyone criticizes the Dupree selection but when you look at who was drafted after him we could have done a lot worse:

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/4/30/8525229/2015-nfl-draft-results-pick-by-pick

Look at who we drafted next. We've already got the "doing even worse" part covered.



They could have also gotten Byron Jones, who I wanted with the pick at the time. He got 2nd team all-pro last year. They also could have gotten Landon Collins who has been first team all-pro. Works both ways.

There seems to be a mindset on here that simply taking up space for a period of time and not being outright comically bad is good enough. There is also a mindset to justify underwhelming performance by pointing to the failures of others.

Let's just say this, I am thankful they have TJ Watt, a player that has actually made a meaningful impact on the team

NO FUCKING SHIT.

[Steeldude]

My prediction is that he'll have a nagging injury that keeps him out of 3 or 4 non-consecutive games, and he will have very little impact, and people will be shameless apologists for him once again. If he sleepwalks into the standard 5 or 6 sacks that you get just for showing up, there will be talk of re-signing him for upwards of $10 million a year, and before you know it we will make the 50-IQ play and actually do it. Pisses me off already, because you know it's true.




Look at who we drafted next. We've already got the "doing even worse" part covered.




NO FUCKING SHIT.

It reminds me of The Incredibles


https://youtube.com/watch?v=4rHQsK4IKDU

[polamalubeast]

The chances that the Steelers had a chance to draft a player that was worth a first round pick in 2015 was 22 was slim .... Slim as 15-20% on we look at the next 20 pick in this draft?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/draft.htm

[fansince'76]

There seems to be a mindset on here that simply taking up space for a period of time and not being outright comically bad is good enough. There is also a mindset to justify underwhelming performance by pointing to the failures of others.

There's also another mindset around here that dictates that every single draft pick turn out to be a future HOFer otherwise the FO is completely clueless and requires a wholesale housecleaning on an annual basis.

[86WARD]

There's also another mindset around here that dictates that every single draft pick turn out to be a future HOFer otherwise the FO is completely clueless and requires a wholesale housecleaning on an annual basis.

I thought that’s the only mindset to have. Draft 7 HOFs every season. Standard is the Standard!!!

[Mojouw]

There's also another mindset around here that dictates that every single draft pick turn out to be a future HOFer otherwise the FO is completely clueless and requires a wholesale housecleaning on an annual basis.

And the related mindset that never acknowledges other players that bust out that the Steelers were supposedly stupid for not drafting. Every other DT from Hargrave’s draft class comes to mind. Malik Jefferson. And I know I was a big Spence and Nkdimichi guy. Glad that didn’t happpen.

[teegre]

A few thoughts about that draft.

1. I was blind for Marcus Peters. It was him... and no one else.

2. In R2, I wanted the very, very, very raw pass-rusher out of LSU. (He wasn’t on many people’s radar.) Once we drafted Bud, I knew that it wasn’t happening... but, watching two more picks go by and Hunter still on the board pained me.

3. Neither of those is a “hindsight is 20/20” thing. (see : below)

3-a. But, in hindsight, trading up for Peters would have been a good use of that R2 pick. Then again, considering our recent history with diva players... maybe not. :scared:

4. Tomlin desperately tried to trade up for Landon Collins, but by trading up the year prior (for Landry Jones) he didn’t have the capital that he needed to make the move.

5. Tomlin loved Vic Beasley. L-O-V-E-D him!!! But, as often happens, he showed his hand, and that player got snagged away from him.


As stated earlier...
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/dinner-takes-all-meals-influence-the-2015-nfl-draft/

:nod:

[polamalubeast]

I wanted Marcus Peters too, but fortunately they have not had the chance to drafted him!...Andy Reid was tired of him after 3 seasons and Peters had a very disappointing season on the field last year with the Rams.

And I do not think the steelers would have drafted Peters even if he would have been available because of his history ... Especially since the Steelers had drafted Martavis Bryant the year before and Tomlin and Colbert already knew it was very likely that Bryant misses the first 4 games because of a suspension that was the reason why the steelers drafted Sammie Coates,so I do not think the Steelers wanted to have another caracter problem in their locker room (all the character problem that the steelers had were drafted before 2015)

For the 2015 draft, the Steelers had all their own draft pick I think ... It was in 2014 that the steelers had no 3rd round pick (Our 3rd round draft pick in 2014 was a compensation pick (Dri Archer)) and it was to have Shamarko Thomas in the 2013 draft, not Landry Jones....Landry was with our own pick.

[teegre]

For the 2015 draft, the Steelers had all their own draft pick I think ... It was in 2014 that the steelers had no 3rd round pick (Our 3rd round draft pick in 2014 was a compensation pick (Dri Archer)) and it was to have Shamarko Thomas in the 2013 draft, not Landry Jones....Landry was with our own pick.

That is correct. I couldn’t remember which was “our” pick and which we traded for
(Jones and Shamarko).

[polamalubeast]

I already saw worse too! ... Just saw that the Jets have released their 3rd round draft pick (68th) of this year!!!


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001045894/article/jets-releasing-thirdround-linebacker-jachai-polite

The Jets fired their GM in May...

[Fire Goodell]

Bud Depree and Big Dan McClure my fav players

[steelreserve]

There's also another mindset around here that dictates that every single draft pick turn out to be a future HOFer otherwise the FO is completely clueless and requires a wholesale housecleaning on an annual basis.

How about the mindset that, if a high draft pick clearly isn't working out, it's ok to admit it and try to address that rather than sticking it out till the bitter end with that player as the starter-by-default?

Or the mindset that, if the same problem keeps happening repeatedly (Incredible raw talent! Needs coaching to develop into a pro player!), then perhaps it's time to re-evaluate the method you are using to arrive at that point.

[DesertSteel]

I already saw worse too! ... Just saw that the Jets have released their 3rd round draft pick (68th) of this year!!!


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001045894/article/jets-releasing-thirdround-linebacker-jachai-polite

The Jets fired their GM in May...
And the Steelers should’ve realized Snell. That’s why they didn’t. Makes you look like idiots.

[polamalubeast]

And the Steelers should’ve realized Snell. That’s why they didn’t. Makes you look like idiots.

I'm hoping that Snell is going to be much better in the next off season by losing weight and others thing, but if he's not too much better next year, he'll be gone

Player like James Conner was much better last year that he was in 2017 especially as receiver and in the pass blocking. He had had a good preseason in 2017 as a runner, but he could not catch, so I do not think he would have been ready to be a RB 1 at this time.Last year at this time, I was confident that Conner was ready

Of course, Snell was much worse in this preseason, but I just hope he's going to be a competent RB next year, otherwise he'll be gone...Still not a good draft pick right now but I will hope for the best!

[Mojouw]

I'm hoping that Snell is going to be much better in the next off season by losing weight and others thing, but if he's not too much better next year, he'll be gone

Player like James Conner was much better last year that he was in 2017 especially as receiver and in the pass blocking. He had had a good preseason in 2017 as a runner, but he could not catch, so I do not think he would have been ready to be a RB 1 at this time.Last year at this time, I was confident that Conner was ready

Of course, Snell was much worse in this preseason, but I just hope he's going to be a competent RB next year, otherwise he'll be gone...Still not a good draft pick right now but I will hope for the best!

There may be hope for Snell yet. I was shocked but his testing numbers are very similar to Conners:

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/benny-snell?position=RB
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/james-conner?position=RB

Of course Conner was still not all the way back from cancer and Benny Snell is supposedly fully healthy....so...gotta hope a full year of NFL training gets him some more explosion and increased strength.

[polamalubeast]

There may be hope for Snell yet. I was shocked but his testing numbers are very similar to Conners:

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/benny-snell?position=RB
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/james-conner?position=RB

Of course Conner was still not all the way back from cancer and Benny Snell is supposedly fully healthy....so...gotta hope a full year of NFL training gets him some more explosion and increased strength.

I knew Snell was not fast, but my biggest disappointment with him was that I do not think Snell broke a tackle in the preseason.

[st33lersguy]

I knew Snell was not fast, but my biggest disappointment with him was that I do not think Snell broke a tackle in the preseason.

Nope, it seemed like you touch him and he just falls right over

[FrancoLambert]

There may be hope for Snell yet. I was shocked but his testing numbers are very similar to Conners:

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/benny-snell?position=RB
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/james-conner?position=RB

Of course Conner was still not all the way back from cancer and Benny Snell is supposedly fully healthy....so...gotta hope a full year of NFL training gets him some more explosion and increased strength.

Testing numbers similar to Conner’s.

Mindset appears very different. Don’t remember Conner boasting that “it’s time for James Conner football.”

[fansince'76]

How about the mindset that, if a high draft pick clearly isn't working out, it's ok to admit it and try to address that rather than sticking it out till the bitter end with that player as the starter-by-default?

I thought you were tired of them taking LBs in the first every year?


Or the mindset that, if the same problem keeps happening repeatedly (Incredible raw talent! Needs coaching to develop into a pro player!), then perhaps it's time to re-evaluate the method you are using to arrive at that point.

You mean like Devin Bush? He seems to be the genuine article so far. Hopefully he can avoid a near-crippling injury, because Shazier's set the defense back a good 2 seasons at least.

[Craic]

How about the mindset that, if a high draft pick clearly isn't working out, it's ok to admit it and try to address that rather than sticking it out till the bitter end with that player as the starter-by-default?

Or the mindset that, if the same problem keeps happening repeatedly (Incredible raw talent! Needs coaching to develop into a pro player!), then perhaps it's time to re-evaluate the method you are using to arrive at that point.

Address it how? There's only 53 guys on the roster and if I recall correctly, your stand is that if a person doesn't have it going by the end of the second year, they're not going to get it. However, had Bud Dupree been cut going into his third year to make room for someone else, it'd be an almost 5 million dollar cap hit. Keeping him on the team is only a 2.5 million dollar cap hit for year three. So, why waste 2.5 million dollars? He's serviceable. Use him and focus on building up other spots that are weaker (like our CBs during that time).

[steelreserve]

I thought you were tired of them taking LBs in the first every year?

You mean like Devin Bush? He seems to be the genuine article so far. Hopefully he can avoid a near-crippling injury, because Shazier's set the defense back a good 2 seasons at least.

No, I mean like Bud Dupree. Also Jarvis Jones, Sean Davis, Artie Burns, etc, etc. There is a certain kind of player we seem to love taking and it never works out. Maybe because Carnell Lake couldn't actually teach anyone the stuff that made him a good DB, and Joey Porter yelling at you might get you fired up, but won't make you a better football player.

Bush looks to be a guy who is so talented and has great instincts that he will succeed on his own with minimal help. The way Shazier was too. Those are the kinds of players who seem to succeed for us, the ones who already know how to play their position, not the ones who are amazing raw athletes who have to be re-taught how to play football or some bullshit. We should stop that.

I AM very sick of us taking linebackers in R1 all the time. I don't think you need, nor can you afford to pay, four superstar linebackers. Just a couple star players and a couple solid ones. "But where else can you find solid players than the first round or by paying $15M for a below-average journeyman???" I don't know, but other teams seem to have no problem figuring it out, so you better start looking, dickheads.


Address it how? There's only 53 guys on the roster and if I recall correctly, your stand is that if a person doesn't have it going by the end of the second year, they're not going to get it. However, had Bud Dupree been cut going into his third year to make room for someone else, it'd be an almost 5 million dollar cap hit. Keeping him on the team is only a 2.5 million dollar cap hit for year three. So, why waste 2.5 million dollars? He's serviceable. Use him and focus on building up other spots that are weaker (like our CBs during that time).

I don't know. Why waste $10 million?

Like, there is definitely a good argument for keeping a guy like Dupree on the roster for depth in his third year when the price is cheap and if he's not getting in the way of finding a real starting OLB. But once it's clear the guy is a nothing, you acknowledge it and keep looking. Not pin all your hopes on him even harder because of where you drafted him. That's doubling down on a 6. Players like that are bench players by their third year and traded before their fourth.

[polamalubeast]

No, I mean like Bud Dupree. Also Jarvis Jones, Sean Davis, Artie Burns, etc, etc. There is a certain kind of player we seem to love taking and it never works out. Maybe because Carnell Lake couldn't actually teach anyone the stuff that made him a good DB, and Joey Porter yelling at you might get you fired up, but won't make you a better football player.

Bush looks to be a guy who is so talented and has great instincts that he will succeed on his own with minimal help. The way Shazier was too. Those are the kinds of players who seem to succeed for us, the ones who already know how to play their position, not the ones who are amazing raw athletes who have to be re-taught how to play football or some bullshit. We should stop that.

I AM very sick of us taking linebackers in R1 all the time. I don't think you need, nor can you afford to pay, four superstar linebackers. Just a couple star players and a couple solid ones. "But where else can you find solid players than the first round or by paying $15M for a below-average journeyman???" I don't know, but other teams seem to have no problem figuring it out, so you better start looking, dickheads.

.


The Steelers have just 2 players in their linebaker who have the potential to be a superstar and it's Watt and Bush who will play a very different role.

The Steelers would not drafted Devin Bush if the Steelers would still have Ryan Shazier .... For Watt, it was a good move even if Dupree would have become a star, since to have a great defense, the pass rush is very important and that takes at least 2 players who can rush the QB in a defense.

In the late 2000s, one of the biggest strengths of this defense was that the Steelers had 2 great pass rusher in Harrison and Woodley and his two players had been 2 of the highest paid players at their position at this time of their contract and the Steelers would not have regretted that if Woodley would have continued to perform at a high level for several years of his contract.

[polamalubeast]

And for Bud Dupree and his 10 million or something like that, it's not that high in the market today .... We are not in 2010!

I mean, if we just look at its position (edge) almost 30 players make at least 10 million a year..We must stop being crazy about that, since the current market is completely different than 10 years ago!

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/edge/

[steelreserve]

And for Bud Dupree and his 10 million or something like that, it's not that high in the market today .... We are not in 2010!

I mean, if we just look at its position (edge) almost 30 players make at least 10 million a year..We must stop being crazy about that, since the current market is completely different than 10 years ago!

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/edge/


It is crazy to pay Dupree that. Maybe a couple dozen players make that, but that is the top third of starters. Not mediocre backups, which is the ability level he has shown so far, over an EXTENSIVE evaluation period. Like, he's sucked for half a career for most guys.

[Six Rings]

I wanted Marcus Peters too, but fortunately they have not had the chance to drafted him!...Andy Reid was tired of him after 3 seasons and Peters had a very disappointing season on the field last year with the Rams.

And I do not think the steelers would have drafted Peters even if he would have been available because of his history ... Especially since the Steelers had drafted Martavis Bryant the year before and Tomlin and Colbert already knew it was very likely that Bryant misses the first 4 games because of a suspension that was the reason why the steelers drafted Sammie Coates,so I do not think the Steelers wanted to have another caracter problem in their locker room (all the character problem that the steelers had were drafted before 2015)

For the 2015 draft, the Steelers had all their own draft pick I think ... It was in 2014 that the steelers had no 3rd round pick (Our 3rd round draft pick in 2014 was a compensation pick (Dri Archer)) and it was to have Shamarko Thomas in the 2013 draft, not Landry Jones....Landry was with our own pick.

Me three on Peters. With our pass rush, he's would have looked good. I also wanted X Howard over Burns. Major swing and a miss by the Steelers.

- - - Updated - - -


It is crazy to pay Dupree that. Maybe a couple dozen players make that, but that is the top third of starters. Not mediocre backups, which is the ability level he has shown so far, over an EXTENSIVE evaluation period. Like, he's sucked for half a career for most guys.

I agree. Perhaps a reason why the Steelers kept so many OLB's? Dupree's motor runs hot and cold. No Lamar Woodley contracts for him.

[Mojouw]

And for Bud Dupree and his 10 million or something like that, it's not that high in the market today .... We are not in 2010!

I mean, if we just look at its position (edge) almost 30 players make at least 10 million a year..We must stop being crazy about that, since the current market is completely different than 10 years ago!

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/edge/


It is crazy to pay Dupree that. Maybe a couple dozen players make that, but that is the top third of starters. Not mediocre backups, which is the ability level he has shown so far, over an EXTENSIVE evaluation period. Like, he's sucked for half a career for most guys.

Here are two guys with similar stat profiles to Dupree:

1. Jabaal Sheard - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/jabaal-sheard-7752/stats-valuation/# --that was worth about 8.5 million per year in 2017 or so when he signed his deal.
2. Preston Smith - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/preston-smith-16762/stats-valuation/ -- similar player, similar age when signed their "big money deals" and that is now worth about $16 million per year.

So if we figure the Preston Smith contract is not ludicrous (and it doesn't seem to be - despite our individual thoughts on the matter), getting Dupree at 9-12 million per season would be a good deal for a guy who figures to post 5-8 sacks each year. If he hits double digits, it would be a shockingly good deal.

I'm in no hurry to pay Dupree an armored car full of money, but that seems to be the breaks right now. Passing is king so sacks are ludicrously overpaid for.

As to the "get all the linebackers" thing -- what about how the Packers wasted Matthews entire career because they never found another bookend rusher AND they failed to find an ILB to such a degree that Matthews had to kick inside. I would really like the Steelers to not have to do that with Watt. That means keeping the shelves stocked at LB across the board.

It will be a fascinating off-season in 2019-2020. No way the Steelers can keep all of Davis, Dupree, and Hargrave.

[polamalubeast]

It will be a fascinating off-season in 2019-2020. No way the Steelers can keep all of Davis, Dupree, and Hargrave.


I think it's going to be the last year of Dupree and Hargrave no matter what, unless his two players look like Khali Mack for Dupree or Aaron Donald for Hargrave this year and the steelers have no choice but to put the franchise TAG on one of his players, but it's very unlikely.

I think that some OLBs of this team will be ready to replace Dupree next year (let's hope it's Ola Adeniyi) and for Hargrave, the problem is his playing time ... the Steelers struggle to give him more playing time, so its price is already high and I do not think the Steelers will have a chance to keep Hargrave no matter what, and we can not keep everyone.

In the case of Sean Davis, if I have to predict, I do not think he would be back, but maybe he would be more likely to stay because his price would be lower and we have less depth at this position.

But right now I prefer to focus on the 2019 season than to focus on what will happen in the 2020 offseason, since many things can happen by then!

[Born2Steel]

With quality FS being such a high commodity I would think Davis will require the bigger payday to stay. We could enter the next draft with Edmonds and Kelly as our planned starters at safety. Would have gone with OLB but that high price tag is usually reserved for superior pass rushers. Dupree hasn't reached that status at this time. However, I believe Dupree's replacement is already on this team. Defensive lineman(DT,DE,NT) that can really get after the QB are also in high demand which makes Hargrave the most intriguing to me. On one hand he's a backup that will be asking for starter money I would think. On the other hand Cam is now 30, Tuitt and Hargrave are both 26, and Buggs is 23. This is the group that makes the most sense to keep together.

Obviously I don't know any more than anyone else but what are you guy's thoughts?

[Mojouw]

With quality FS being such a high commodity I would think Davis will require the bigger payday to stay. We could enter the next draft with Edmonds and Kelly as our planned starters at safety. Would have gone with OLB but that high price tag is usually reserved for superior pass rushers. Dupree hasn't reached that status at this time. However, I believe Dupree's replacement is already on this team. Defensive lineman(DT,DE,NT) that can really get after the QB are also in high demand which makes Hargrave the most intriguing to me. On one hand he's a backup that will be asking for starter money I would think. On the other hand Cam is now 30, Tuitt and Hargrave are both 26, and Buggs is 23. This is the group that makes the most sense to keep together.

Obviously I don't know any more than anyone else but what are you guy's thoughts?

I'd try and keep Hargrave and Davis as well.

[polamalubeast]

With quality FS being such a high commodity I would think Davis will require the bigger payday to stay. We could enter the next draft with Edmonds and Kelly as our planned starters at safety. Would have gone with OLB but that high price tag is usually reserved for superior pass rushers. Dupree hasn't reached that status at this time. However, I believe Dupree's replacement is already on this team. Defensive lineman(DT,DE,NT) that can really get after the QB are also in high demand which makes Hargrave the most intriguing to me. On one hand he's a backup that will be asking for starter money I would think. On the other hand Cam is now 30, Tuitt and Hargrave are both 26, and Buggs is 23. This is the group that makes the most sense to keep together.

Obviously I don't know any more than anyone else but what are you guy's thoughts?

I think Sean Davis's price is going to be lower, since his ceilling is lower (even though he can be a good player) and the market for the safety position, even if it rises this year is again smaller than the position of pass rusher.

Dupree with a very good year could have a big contract on the open market ... I know a few may say that I need a drug test, but I would not be surprised if he has at least 15 million per year next year in March if he has a very good year! .... Player like Mack in Chicago had had 24 million per year last year and players of Dupree's caliber right now have 9 million ... If he is better this year, its price could be in between.

For Hargrave, it's going to be almost impossible to pay him sadly ... Grady Jarrett in the off season had $ 17 million a year with the Falcons in July after being on the franchise TAG and if we look at the stats of Jarrett (in the link below)his stats are very comparable to the stats of Hargrave, so I understand why Hargrave decides to wait in next march to see what it's worth on the open market and I think unfortunately the steelers will not be able to offer this contract.The good news is that at least the steelers could have good compensation draft pick in 2021


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/grady-jarrett-16863/stats-valuation/

[hawaiiansteeler]

Dupree with a very good year could have a big contract on the open market ... I know a few may say that I need a drug test, but I would not be surprised if he has at least 15 million per year next year

you need a drug test :chuckle:

[polamalubeast]

you need a drug test :chuckle:

I mean look at the stats of Za'Darius Smith in his first 3 years

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/zadarius-smith-16848/stats-valuation/

10 sacks only after 3 seasons vs 14 sacks for Dupree

Last year, Zadarius Smith had 8.5 sacks with the Ravens, which gave him 18.5 sacks in 4 seasons with the Ravens .... Still less than Dupree who has 20 sacks after 4 seasons, but Smith had 16.5 million per year with the Packers on the open market in last march!

[HollywoodSteel]

I would love Bud Dupree’s sacks to go up but only if it means that our team net sacks go up. As a whole we are a very good pass rushing team, and it ultimately doesn’t matter how they are distributed as long as everyone does their job.

That said, I really am of the opinion that Dupree does up his game this year. I think having Bush and Barron being good in coverage will help Dupree have more opportunities as a pure pass rusher. And I think Dupree takes advantage of those opportunities.

If he ends being so good he’s unaffordable, oh well. As long as he helps win us a Super Bowl first... which I understand is the actual plan this year. :)

I’m just happy that we have a thread with the title: Thank the Lucky Stars For Bud Dupree!

Who’d have ever thunk it?

[Craic]

I don't know. Why waste $10 million?

Like, there is definitely a good argument for keeping a guy like Dupree on the roster for depth in his third year when the price is cheap and if he's not getting in the way of finding a real starting OLB. But once it's clear the guy is a nothing, you acknowledge it and keep looking. Not pin all your hopes on him even harder because of where you drafted him. That's doubling down on a 6. Players like that are bench players by their third year and traded before their fourth.

But, that's the end of result of that third year money. Because it means you have a position that while not the strongest, also isn't the weakest. So, you ride it until it becomes the weakest on defense because you're having to focus on other areas. You put your draft picks in those areas to strength the team. Let's think about it for a moment. In the last couple of years, even with Dupree as starter, this team has been stronger at his LB position than they were at ILB, OLB (before the draft of Watt), safety, CB, RB (what with all the will he or won't he play issues of Bells), and at the other receiver spot across from AB. The year they finally have a proven one, AB is gone and their right back in the same position. Every one of those positions were more important to focus on than replacing a middle-of-the-road LB.

That means now, we're sitting in a spot where we pay him the money we do because we're still trying to fix those other areas. In the natural cycle, his position becomes a concern next year or the year after, which is fine because by that point, safety, the other LB spots, WR, and RB are solidified. That gives us the ability to now work on the weak areas of LB (Dupree), Dline (retirements will be coming in the next few years), and O line (same), as well as stockpiling draft picks for a new QB.

[HollywoodSteel]

But, that's the end of result of that third year money. Because it means you have a position that while not the strongest, also isn't the weakest. So, you ride it until it becomes the weakest on defense because you're having to focus on other areas. You put your draft picks in those areas to strength the team. Let's think about it for a moment. In the last couple of years, even with Dupree as starter, this team has been stronger at his LB position than they were at ILB, OLB (before the draft of Watt), safety, CB, RB (what with all the will he or won't he play issues of Bells), and at the other receiver spot across from AB. The year they finally have a proven one, AB is gone and their right back in the same position. Every one of those positions were more important to focus on than replacing a middle-of-the-road LB.

That means now, we're sitting in a spot where we pay him the money we do because we're still trying to fix those other areas. In the natural cycle, his position becomes a concern next year or the year after, which is fine because by that point, safety, the other LB spots, WR, and RB are solidified. That gives us the ability to now work on the weak areas of LB (Dupree), Dline (retirements will be coming in the next few years), and O line (same), as well as stockpiling draft picks for a new QB.

I probably have more faith in Dupree improving this year than you do, but I think your logic is quite sound, even going by your own less enthusiastic assessment of his upcoming season. I think all things considered, cutting Dupree to save that money would have been a mistake this year. I wouldn’t have wanted it to mess with our draft needs, and I really don’t think we could have done better for the money in free agency.

Plus there’s always the CHANCE that he gets closer to his potential with every year in the system. Even if you don’t share my level of optimism, you still have to factor in the potential upside to some extent.

[steelreserve]

I probably have more faith in Dupree improving this year than you do, but I think your logic is quite sound, even going by your own less enthusiastic assessment of his upcoming season. I think all things considered, cutting Dupree to save that money would have been a mistake this year. I wouldn’t have wanted it to mess with our draft needs, and I really don’t think we could have done better for the money in free agency.

Plus there’s always the CHANCE that he gets closer to his potential with every year in the system. Even if you don’t share my level of optimism, you still have to factor in the potential upside to some extent.

We are paying $13 million for one year of Dupree and Chickillo. Surely we could've done more with that.

To the second part of that post, I'd post that way-overused clip from Dumb and Dumber of Jim Carrey saying, "So you're saying there's a chance!" but I don't want to do that, so I'll just trust that everybody knows what I mean.

[polamalubeast]

We are paying $13 million for one year of Dupree and Chickillo. Surely we could've done more with that.

To the second part of that post, I'd post that way-overused clip from Dumb and Dumber of Jim Carrey saying, "So you're saying there's a chance!" but I don't want to do that, so I'll just trust that everybody knows what I mean.

The price for a below average pass rusher in the NFL is 4 millions...

Look at this list...

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/edge/

[steelreserve]

The price for a below average pass rusher in the NFL is 4 millions...

Look at this list...

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/edge/

Then it sounds like we could've spent about $4 million for a Dupree replacement, then found a rookie who's better than Chickillo like we did anyway. Holy shit, how about that, $9 million in cap space just laying around.

[polamalubeast]

Then it sounds like we could've spent about $4 million for a Dupree replacement, then found a rookie who's better than Chickillo like we did anyway. Holy shit, how about that, $9 million in cap space just laying around.

I prefer Chickillo AND Dupree for 13 millions that 16.5 Millions for Za'Darius Smith...

Look at his stats after 4 seasons...Similar stats of Dupree,but Dupree is 7.5 millions cheaper

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/zadarius-smith-16848/stats-valuation/

[steelreserve]

I prefer Chickillo AND Dupree for 13 millions that 16.5 Millions for Za'Darius Smith...

Look at his stats after 4 seasons...Similar stats of Dupree,but Dupree is 7.5 millions cheaper

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/zadarius-smith-16848/stats-valuation/

Was there a reason why we had to sign ZaDarius Smith either? I'd prefer none of the above. Use the $9 million somewhere else if you have to, it's still better than just throwing it in the garbage.

[GoSlash27]

It will be a fascinating off-season in 2019-2020. No way the Steelers can keep all of Davis, Dupree, and Hargrave.

If someone's got to go, I imagine it's Bud Dupree. We already know that Alphabet Soup can handle his job, and Skipper looks pretty explosive. Both of them are younger and much cheaper.

[polamalubeast]

Was there a reason why we had to sign ZaDarius Smith either? I'd prefer none of the above. Use the $9 million somewhere else if you have to, it's still better than just throwing it in the garbage.

The Steelers would have no NFL caliber OLB if they would not want to spend on a player at this position

Great pass rusher are not easy to find, even in a draft.

[steelreserve]

The Steelers would have no NFL caliber OLB if they would not want to spend on a player at this position

Keeping Dupree did not change that. It's still a problem spot on the roster, just a very expensive one now.

If you have a below-average player starting at a spot, retaining that below-average player does not give you stability or peace of mind. It just means you still suck. Why pay money for that? Plenty of pass rushers who suck are willing to play for less than $9 million.

[polamalubeast]

Keeping Dupree did not change that. It's still a problem spot on the roster, just a very expensive one now.

If you have a below-average player starting at a spot, retaining that below-average player does not give you stability or peace of mind. It just means you still suck. Why pay money for that? Plenty of pass rushers who suck are willing to play for less than $9 million.

If Colbert would not have paid at that position, the Steelers would have had no depth and the situation of the OLB position might have been bad as the backup TE position right now(unless if they would been lucky with some undrafted rookie) because they did not pay James Jesse 6-7 million per year ... At least by paying 9 million to Dupree (not be surprised if he has 15 million in the open market next year with another team if he has a good season this year) it avoids having a big hole in this position .. In contrast to the TE position, a team must have 2 OLB at the same time on the field ...

[Mojouw]

Was there a reason why we had to sign ZaDarius Smith either? I'd prefer none of the above. Use the $9 million somewhere else if you have to, it's still better than just throwing it in the garbage.
Dare the rest of us ask who this illusory outside linebacker may be? Who is it that you have in. Mind? Or are we back to the ever present but totally imaginary any random linebacker?

[Mojouw]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/outside-linebacker/type-veteran/signed-2019/

That is the list of veteran OLBs that signed new contracts this past off-season. Who on that list would you prefer to have starting at OLB for less than Dupree?

I love the attraction of seemingly high ceiling young players like Alphabet Soup and Tupac likely more than most fans, but no NFL team was going into the off-season cycle with its OLB depth chart being Watt and a guy that has all of 9 NFL snaps. And behind that would have literally been “to be determined”. $13 million is not a great deal of money to buy one year of roster stability. If it does work out, great. If not, who cares? Both Dupree and Chick can come off the books next year for essentially zero cap impact. Then you could go into the offseason with Watt and two more “proven” NFL players in Ola and Skipper.

[steelreserve]

Dare the rest of us ask who this illusory outside linebacker may be? Who is it that you have in. Mind? Or are we back to the ever present but totally imaginary any random linebacker?

I don't remember the specifics of how their individual availability worked out, or who was recovering from an injury. But yes, from Terrell Suggs on down, skipping Chickillo, there are at least 5 or 6 guys on that list who would've provided the same "security" Dupree does, which is to say "a guy who has played in an NFL game before and you can construct at least a thin argument that he won't be completely embarrassed," and they are in the $5M and below range. Even some names that have done quite well in the past. The point is not to get an All-Pro, just someone the same as Dupree, which is like saying your goal is to only step in dogshit with ONE shoe.

[Mojouw]

I don't remember the specifics of how their individual availability worked out, or who was recovering from an injury. But yes, from Terrell Suggs on down, skipping Chickillo, there are at least 5 or 6 guys on that list who would've provided the same "security" Dupree does, which is to say "a guy who has played in an NFL game before and you can construct at least a thin argument that he won't be completely embarrassed," and they are in the $5M and below range. Even some names that have done quite well in the past. The point is not to get an All-Pro, just someone the same as Dupree, which is like saying your goal is to only step in dogshit with ONE shoe.

I figure Dupree outperforms everyone on that list aside from Suggs and Alexander.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[polamalubeast]

Dupree is maybe the most underrated player by Steelers fans right now!

[steelreserve]

I figure Dupree outperforms everyone on that list aside from Suggs and Alexander.

So now you've got at least two better options ... I'd have taken Shaq Barrett, Bruce Irvin, maybe Matthews if he has anything left ... but even if not, hell, you could get one of those players AND take a flyer on a risky guy like Kendricks or Golden for extremely cheap, two players combined for less than Dupree.

People talk about the LB market being insane, but really what happened is like 4 guys got huge contracts and then everyone was out of money, just like at every other position. Dupree got the fifth-highest, and that is not a bargain at all because he is just "a guy." And there are plenty of players in the "a guy" range making anywhere from like $2.5M-$7M. THAT is actually "The Market" - not the super high-end bullshit deals that everyone loves to talk about and which don't usually help you improve.

I also think you have a much, much higher opinion of Dupree than his play so far justifies, but we've already been over that about 20 times.

[polamalubeast]

So now you've got at least two better options ... I'd have taken Shaq Barrett, Bruce Irvin, maybe Matthews if he has anything left ... but even if not, hell, you could get one of those players AND take a flyer on a risky guy like Kendricks or Golden for extremely cheap, two players combined for less than Dupree.

People talk about the LB market being insane, but really what happened is like 4 guys got huge contracts and then everyone was out of money, just like at every other position. Dupree got the fifth-highest, and that is not a bargain at all because he is just "a guy." And there are plenty of players in the "a guy" range making anywhere from like $2.5M-$7M. THAT is actually "The Market" - not the super high-end bullshit deals that everyone loves to talk about and which don't usually help you improve.

I also think you have a much, much higher opinion of Dupree than his play so far justifies, but we've already been over that about 20 times.

Only 4 guys?....Maybe for the off season but like my post 42 in this page,I did not count the numbers but at least 30-40 players make over 7 millions in the edge rushers..This is that the market....And no way Terrell Suggs would have signed with the Steelers after 16 years in Baltimore!!!

[st33lersguy]

I never knew you could make an impact on an NFL team simply by taking up a roster spot. Notice how everyone who defends him has to always talk about OTHER players and say there "are no other pass rushers". There never is any talk about what he actually does or what he has actually done for the team. Sorry but if you have to use other players to defend a player, chances are that player is probably not good enough.

Of course they will then proclaim "THIS is his breakout year", keeping in mind, based off of what they can't say. Also the same people saying this are the same people proclaiming last year would be his breakout year

[steelreserve]

I never knew you could make an impact on an NFL team simply by taking up a roster spot. Notice how everyone who defends him has to always talk about OTHER players and say there "are no other pass rushers". There never is any talk about what he actually does or what he has actually done for the team. Sorry but if you have to use other players to defend a player, chances are that player is probably not good enough.

NO FUCKING SHIT.

[polamalubeast]

I never knew you could make an impact on an NFL team simply by taking up a roster spot. Notice how everyone who defends him has to always talk about OTHER players and say there "are no other pass rushers". There never is any talk about what he actually does or what he has actually done for the team. Sorry but if you have to use other players to defend a player, chances are that player is probably not good enough.

If you were talking about Xavier Grimble or other backup TE in our roster, yeah you would have a point but Bud Dupree is not great and he has his flaws, but he is far from being an awful player or an embarrassment!

How many players are much better than Dupree in the 20 players chosen after Dupree in the 2015draft ? ... 2-3 players, outside of that, this list is not special!

[steelreserve]

Sorry but if you have to use other players to defend a player, chances are that player is probably not good enough.

I see ...


How many players are much better than Dupree in the 20 players chosen after Dupree in the 2015draft ? ... 2-3 players, outside of that, this list is not special!

Welp - story checks out.

[polamalubeast]

I see ...



Welp - story checks out.

Never said Dupree was good enough or things like that right now, but to say that he is a complete embarrassment as you say in post 52, it's too far a bit!

[Mojouw]

The evaluation of players and roster spots/construction absolutely depends on “other players”. That’s the entire point. Unlike fans and message board fanatics, NFL teams are forced to work in reality and the realm of what is possible.

If you have a spot targeted for replacement but all the available options are not sure upgrades, a team is going to stick with the known quantity.

If Steven Nelson had not signed, I guarantee Sensabaugh would’ve gotten to at least training camp with the team.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/outside-linebacker/type-veteran/signed-2019/

That is the list of veteran OLBs that signed new contracts this past off-season. Who on that list would you prefer to have starting at OLB for less than Dupree?

I love the attraction of seemingly high ceiling young players like Alphabet Soup and Tupac likely more than most fans, but no NFL team was going into the off-season cycle with its OLB depth chart being Watt and a guy that has all of 9 NFL snaps. And behind that would have literally been “to be determined”. $13 million is not a great deal of money to buy one year of roster stability. If it does work out, great. If not, who cares? Both Dupree and Chick can come off the books next year for essentially zero cap impact. Then you could go into the offseason with Watt and two more “proven” NFL players in Ola and Skipper.

I agree with you that the Steelers needed Dupree and Chickillo on the roster as veteran NFL depth at OLB. I also agree that Olaqwerty and Skipper have upside and potential....but the reality is that we don't know if they are going to be the next James Harrison or the next Carlos Emmons.

I expect to see an OLB drafted early in 2020.

[polamalubeast]

I agree with you that the Steelers needed Dupree and Chickillo on the roster as veteran NFL depth at OLB. I also agree that Olaqwerty and Skipper have upside and potential....but the reality is that we don't know if they are going to be the next James Harrison or the next Carlos Emmons.

I expect to see an OLB drafted early in 2020.

Maybe we'll know a good part of the answer this year

They will likely not be a James Harrison's caliber, but if the Steelers are confident at least one of his players can be above average, they should drafted a player to another position in the first 3 rounds

They did a good evaluation of James Harrison in 2007, after they released Joey Porter (even if I do not think the Steelers thought Harrison was going to be a monster like that) so hopefully they'll do a good evaluation on that too in 2020 in this position!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Maybe we'll know a good part of the answer this year

They will likely not be a James Harrison's caliber, but if the Steelers are confident at least one of his players can be above average, they should drafted a player to another position in the first 3 rounds

They did a good evaluation of James Harrison in 2007, after they released Joey Porter (even if I do not think the Steelers thought Harrison was going to be a monster like that) so hopefully they'll do a good evaluation on that too in 2020 in this position!

Ola is active and makes good use of his hands in the pass rush, but I never saw that he was that solid in setting the edge in run game. I think he has enough athleticism to drop and cover. Skipper shows good use of his hands and bend in getting around the edge in pass rush, but not sure if he has a counter move at all and he looks stiff, so may not be adept in getting into coverage.

I think Dupree is better than both and am not sure either will ascend to his level. So the Dupree haters are optimistic about some UDFA's, but in the end they might just be depth OLB's, or one is going to be pressed into action and be a downgrade from the current starters on the outside.

[tube517]

Ola is active and makes good use of his hands in the pass rush, but I never saw that he was that solid in setting the edge in run game. I think he has enough athleticism to drop and cover. Skipper shows good use of his hands and bend in getting around the edge in pass rush, but not sure if he has a counter move at all and he looks stiff, so may not be adept in getting into coverage.

I think Dupree is better than both and am not sure either will ascend to his level. So the Dupree haters are optimistic about some UDFA's, but in the end they might just be depth OLB's, or one is going to be pressed into action and be a downgrade from the current starters on the outside.

Fake rumor: Dino Tomlin is transferring to Toledo for 2020 season :chuckle:

[polamalubeast]

Player as Chickillo had almost 300 snap on defense last year (28% of the snap) even if Dupree and Watt had not missed a game, so likely that Ola and other are going to have opportunities for the Steelers to have a good evaluation on them .... Important to do that!

[steelreserve]

The evaluation of players and roster spots/construction absolutely depends on “other players”. That’s the entire point. Unlike fans and message board fanatics, NFL teams are forced to work in reality and the realm of what is possible.

If you have a spot targeted for replacement but all the available options are not sure upgrades, a team is going to stick with the known quantity.

If Steven Nelson had not signed, I guarantee Sensabaugh would’ve gotten to at least training camp with the team.

Now imagine Sensabaugh was being paid more than Nelson. So we never go looking for Nelson, and just like that, Sensabaugh is your starter by default for the 2019 season. Yowch.

THAT is what the Dupree haters mean when we talk about "settling for mediocrity." Although in Dupree's case, mediocrity is really stretching it. He's only even mediocre when he has three or four serious playmakers in front of him doing the hard work. Mediocre players look good when they have that kind of help.

Sensabaugh was a really good comparison, though. A shaky player who barely got you through the season but has clear shortcomings and you will always be looking for someone better as long as he's on the team. Just switch his name and draft status with Dupree's and you would have the exact same story. But we tunnel-visioned hard on one but not the other, and the divergent results could not be a better reflection of that.

[polamalubeast]

Now imagine Sensabaugh was being paid more than Nelson. So we never go looking for Nelson, and just like that, Sensabaugh is your starter by default for the 2019 season. Yowch.

THAT is what the Dupree haters mean when we talk about "settling for mediocrity." Although in Dupree's case, mediocrity is really stretching it. He's only even mediocre when he has three or four serious playmakers in front of him doing the hard work. Mediocre players look good when they have that kind of help.

Sensabaugh was a really good comparison, though. A shaky player who barely got you through the season but has clear shortcomings and you will always be looking for someone better as long as he's on the team. Just switch his name and draft status with Dupree's and you would have the exact same story. But we tunnel-visioned hard on one but not the other, and the divergent results could not be a better reflection of that.

Not a good comparaison since Sensabaugh is out of the league right now...

Dupree would have found another job with another team with a good salary if the Steelers would have released Dupree and the Steelers would probably have nobody at this position and this spot would have the potential to be weak as the backup TE position right now .... The price for a edge rusher on the open market, even if they are average, is at least 7 million per year, so your scenario is very unrealistic. The NFL is not Madden 20!

[steelreserve]

Not a good comparaison since Sensabaugh is out of the league right now...

Dupree would have found another job with another team with a good salary if the Steelers would have released Dupree and the Steelers would probably have nobody at this position and this spot would have the potential to be weak as the backup TE position right now .... The price for a edge rusher on the open market, even if they are average, is at least 7 million per year, so your scenario is very unrealistic. The NFL is not Madden 20!

What do you mean, there were several players we could've gone after if it was a priority. An "average" OLB costs $7 million and Dupree costs $9 million? Shit, where do I sign up for that?

This really just has the potential to keep going around in circles forever, so instead of that, I will make one final point and see if anyone can disprove it:

"Fuck Bud Dupree. The guy sucks."

[polamalubeast]

What do you mean, there were several players we could've gone after if it was a priority. An "average" OLB costs $7 million and Dupree costs $9 million? Shit, where do I sign up for that?

This really just has the potential to keep going around in circles forever, so instead of that, I will make one final point and see if anyone can disprove it:

"Fuck Bud Dupree. The guy sucks."

Not because Dupree is not a star (a star costs at least 17-18 million in this position) means he suck!

Why take the risk to release Dupree, when you have much better chance of being worse at his position after (with a worse player in the same price or near or be of the caliber of the backup TE position with a player at the price of Xavier Grimble) that having a better player at the same price, which was almost impossible

A player who had the same stats as Dupree after 4 years in the NFL (Za'Darius Smith with 20 sacks after 4 seasons,same for Dupree) had $ 16.5 million a year in the open market ... So please Colbert knows more about how the market is and stops thinking about scenarios which is really not realistic.

[Mojouw]

Not because Dupree is not a star (a star costs at least 17-18 million in this position) means he suck!

Why take the risk to release Dupree, when you have much better chance of being worse at his position after (with a worse player in the same price or near or be of the caliber of the backup TE position with a player at the price of Xavier Grimble) that having a better player at the same price, which was almost impossible

A player who had the same stats as Dupree after 4 years in the NFL (Za'Darius Smith with 20 sacks after 4 seasons,same for Dupree) had $ 16.5 million a year in the open market ... So please Colbert knows more about how the market is and stops thinking about scenarios which is really not realistic.

Smith is basically Dupree with more refined technique and a slightly higher football IQ. But I mean I guess the Steelers could've signed Sam Acho for like $4 million or something...

- - - Updated - - -


What do you mean, there were several players we could've gone after if it was a priority. An "average" OLB costs $7 million and Dupree costs $9 million? Shit, where do I sign up for that?

This really just has the potential to keep going around in circles forever, so instead of that, I will make one final point and see if anyone can disprove it:

"Fuck Bud Dupree. The guy sucks."

But that is the point you are not getting. No one is arguing that Dupree doesn't suck. They are arguing that the level of suck that Dupree brings to the table is worth somewhere between 8-16 million dollars per season in the NFL right now.

The contract dollar evaluation of a player is not always the same as the talent level of the player.

[polamalubeast]

Smith is basically Dupree with more refined technique and a slightly higher football IQ. But I mean I guess the Steelers could've signed Sam Acho for like $4 million or something...

Or released Dupree and spend 7 million more for a player only with more refined technique and a slightly higher football IQ in Smith!

[Born2Steel]

Smith is basically Dupree with more refined technique and a slightly higher football IQ. But I mean I guess the Steelers could've signed Sam Acho for like $4 million or something...

- - - Updated - - -



But that is the point you are not getting. No one is arguing that Dupree doesn't suck. They are arguing that the level of suck that Dupree brings to the table is worth somewhere between 8-16 million dollars per season in the NFL right now.

The contract dollar evaluation of a player is not always the same as the talent level of the player.

Actually...I AM arguing that Bud Dupree doesn't suck. His pass rush does not warrant $9M yet everything else he does from his OLB position does(arguably I understand). If you want a $15M-$20M pass rusher fine, but that is not a comparison with Dupree and his job on this defense. Dupree is an average pass rusher but above average everywhere else. His $9M is not for his pass rush production. That seems to be the sticking point for most Dupree haters. And I would bet his true value falls a bit if this season is status quo in his sack totals. Bud could get an offer for 3-5yrs at $5M-$7M per at his level of play. That does not put him at the elite level of OLB but it does mean he doesn't suck as a 3-4 OLB.

The LeBeau style 3-4 has been through some tweaking since teams figured out to spread out to beat it. This makes the pass rush OLB have to play in coverage as well as set the edge against the run(means turn the run back inside) as well as be a situational pass rusher. Bud Dupree is average as a pass rusher but above average in coverage and setting an edge. Thus his value.

[polamalubeast]

Even the market for a TE is higher !!!

A 26 year old TE with the Rams yesterday signed a contract of almost 8 million a year even if this player had never had 300 yards in a season(only 4 TD in 3 seasons)!

Another GM who knows nothing, even if his teams was in last year's Super Bowl!

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/tyler-higbee-19064/stats-valuation/

[Mojouw]

Actually...I AM arguing that Bud Dupree doesn't suck. His pass rush does not warrant $9M yet everything else he does from his OLB position does(arguably I understand). If you want a $15M-$20M pass rusher fine, but that is not a comparison with Dupree and his job on this defense. Dupree is an average pass rusher but above average everywhere else. His $9M is not for his pass rush production. That seems to be the sticking point for most Dupree haters. And I would bet his true value falls a bit if this season is status quo in his sack totals. Bud could get an offer for 3-5yrs at $5M-$7M per at his level of play. That does not put him at the elite level of OLB but it does mean he doesn't suck as a 3-4 OLB.

The LeBeau style 3-4 has been through some tweaking since teams figured out to spread out to beat it. This makes the pass rush OLB have to play in coverage as well as set the edge against the run(means turn the run back inside) as well as be a situational pass rusher. Bud Dupree is average as a pass rusher but above average in coverage and setting an edge. Thus his value.

You are not wrong. And I shouldn't have spoken for anyone aside from myself. Cheers!

[Born2Steel]

You are not wrong. And I shouldn't have spoken for anyone aside from myself. Cheers!

Cheers! And most(99%) of my post was not directed at your post but some thoughts on Dupree I have kept to myself for a while. Dollar value vs drafted position/draft round vs fan idea of success vs team idea of success vs league idea of success vs talking heads idea of success is an impossible equation to figure out. Fan X wants to say Dupree sucks because he doesn't sack the QB as often as Fan X thinks a 1st round OLB should. On the surface that is understandable, but Fan X is not looking at the entire picture. Then the 1st round OLB's 5th year option price tag kicks in and now the team has over-valued said suck. However, the league puts a value on comparable OLB stats at a price even higher than that. And it gets even more confusing from there. I think what it all comes down to is how the team wants to use it's players and how those players fit. The value begins and ends right there. Fan X, the talking heads, even what the league thinks means absolutely nothing to this process.

[teegre]

Actually...I AM arguing that Bud Dupree doesn't suck. His pass rush does not warrant $9M yet everything else he does from his OLB position does(arguably I understand). If you want a $15M-$20M pass rusher fine, but that is not a comparison with Dupree and his job on this defense. Dupree is an average pass rusher but above average everywhere else. His $9M is not for his pass rush production. That seems to be the sticking point for most Dupree haters. And I would bet his true value falls a bit if this season is status quo in his sack totals. Bud could get an offer for 3-5yrs at $5M-$7M per at his level of play. That does not put him at the elite level of OLB but it does mean he doesn't suck as a 3-4 OLB.

The LeBeau style 3-4 has been through some tweaking since teams figured out to spread out to beat it. This makes the pass rush OLB have to play in coverage as well as set the edge against the run(means turn the run back inside) as well as be a situational pass rusher. Bud Dupree is average as a pass rusher but above average in coverage and setting an edge. Thus his value.

The coaches have consciously altered the way that they are going to use Dupree this upcoming season. He was an octagonal piece trying to fit in a round hole. (Really, his style isn’t even “square”.) This change focuses on what Dupree does well. Ergo, I expect a vastly different Dupree on the field this season.

Speaking to that point, last season, the coaches switched which side Dupree played on... and he improved. I expect an even bigger improvement this season.

In before: “Belichick would have made this change when Dupree was a rookie!!!”

[polamalubeast]

The coaches have consciously altered the way that they are going to use Dupree this upcoming season. He was an octagonal piece trying to fit in a round hole. (Really, his style isn’t even “square”.) This change focuses on what Dupree does well. Ergo, I expect a vastly different Dupree on the field this season.

Speaking to that point, last season, the coaches switched which side Dupree played on... and he improved. I expect an even bigger improvement this season.

In before: “Belichick would have made this change when Dupree was a rookie!!!”


I do not like Keith Butler as DC, but as a linebacker coach, he is very good and I think Dupree could be better because of that this year!

[pczach]

Cheers! And most(99%) of my post was not directed at your post but some thoughts on Dupree I have kept to myself for a while. Dollar value vs drafted position/draft round vs fan idea of success vs team idea of success vs league idea of success vs talking heads idea of success is an impossible equation to figure out. Fan X wants to say Dupree sucks because he doesn't sack the QB as often as Fan X thinks a 1st round OLB should. On the surface that is understandable, but Fan X is not looking at the entire picture. Then the 1st round OLB's 5th year option price tag kicks in and now the team has over-valued said suck. However, the league puts a value on comparable OLB stats at a price even higher than that. And it gets even more confusing from there. I think what it all comes down to is how the team wants to use it's players and how those players fit. The value begins and ends right there. Fan X, the talking heads, even what the league thinks means absolutely nothing to this process.



Some really good thoughts there.

Value is difficult to quantify if you are only looking at stats. There are many ways to judge how effective a player is, but it is hard for many to accept that.

[teegre]

I do not like Keith Butler as DC, but as a linebacker coach, he is very good and I think Dupree could be better because of that this year!

I foresee Teryl Austin taking over as DC... regulating Keith Butler to “LB coach only” (where he was actually pretty good).