Pass Defense Not so Good??

[Craic]

I know we are all enthralled about our defense right now, and with good reason. However, I would like to point out one factor that sits like a warning beacon...

We are 18th in pass defense. That's right. 18th. And that is WITH our D tied for 3rd in sacks AND tied for third in INT's.

When it comes to Passes defended, we are tied with Cleveland, Tennessee, KC, St. Louis, Minnesota, NO, and SD. Just one less pass defended puts us in 19th place out of 32.

Is the sky falling? No. But outside the last game (where we had all our second string defense playing pretty much), I am still seeing the pattern late in games when teams are driving on us.

So, is it bad Scheming... or bad pass defense?

[oneforthetoe]

Our pass defense is 3 - 0. And we have given up an average of 11 points a game or something like that. Don't care where we rank in yards given up. Besides, total yards gained and/or given up is, imo, way overstated in importance. Teams have to throw on us because they can not run. Also, they are usually trying to catchup at the end. The first two games were only close because the offense could not score a td - not because the pass D was weak (although the whole D was understandably winded in the Falcon's game).

While I would love to see us shut down teams completetly. As you know, Dick Lebeau's scheme is designed not to give up the big play and keep everything in front of the secondary. This is the reason we do not play a great deal of man-to-man. Tighter coverage means a bigger chance that a corner gets beat for a big play.


To conclude.Do we have the best secondary in the league? Probably not. Does Lebeau's system come without drawbacks? No Every defensive scheme has its weaknesses. If being ranked in the middle of total yards given up is the only weakness in Lebeau's scheme, I'll take it.

[tube517]

I saw that in the stats. I think it's too early to judge because they went prevent D in 2 out of the 3 games. Atlanta is the best passing team out of the 3 we played and they were shut down when necessary. Even w/Roddy White's gaudy stats, he didn't make any big plays and more importantly, no TD's.

There is a 4 week stretch when we play some "legit" WR's

Miami - Brandon Marshall
New Orleans - Marques Colston
Cincinnati - Ocho/TO
New England - Randy Moss

I say look at the stats at least after those games.

But the most important stats for me are points, 3rd down conversions or 3rd and long conversions.

[solardave]

I also noticed the trend. We're letting teams drive up and down the field on us with their passing attack. The question, is Lebeau employing a bend but don't brake secondary? Since we're not giving up TDs I tend to think he is.

[steelreserve]

The way this usually works is, a lot of bad teams end up with "good" pass defense stats because they're getting blown out and their opponents start running a lot ... and a lot of good teams end up looking worse than they are against the pass because they get ahead and their opponents start passing a lot. Every year, you end up with a bunch of last-place teams finishing high in the pass defense category.

Look at last year, for example. You had

2. Buffalo (6-10)
3. Denver (8-8)
4. Carolina (8-8)
7. Oakland (5-11)
8. Washington (4-12)
10. Tampa (3-13)

This year, below us, you've got teams like the Colts, Patriots, Bears, Falcons all below us ... Houston is dead last, for that matter. This is one of those stats that can really belie the true story. Though as the season goes on, things do tend to sort themselves out if you legitimately have a good all-around defense, which I believe we do.

[Edman]

Our Defense isn't perfect, it has it's holes. But despite being 18th in Pass Defense, the D is doing their job in their most important role: Scoreboard. Teams despite moving the ball well through the air, don't do a whole lot of scoring in spite of it. The previous Steelers opponents were held to 9, 11, and 13 points. It's like the 2009 Steelers Offense. Rack up loads of yardage, but scoring leaves a lot to be desired.

Also, did you know the 2009 Defense for all of it's game-costing failures was ranked 5th in the league last year? After the buttload of points and yardage they surrendered? I don't think rankings tell the WHOLE story. This D isn't the prettiest, but it's getting the job done so far. Defenses who get the job done lead to championships. Last Year's D couldn't do that.

If this were last year, Tampa Bay probably would've closed the game to within seven with 5-6 minutes to play last Sunday. Trust me, it probably would've happened. Does anyone forger last year when the Steelers D blew a 21-point lead to the Chargers at Heinz? They won anyway, but it wasn't a good omen, and it haunted us for the rest of that season.

[Butch]

Interesting point padre.

I personally like the bend don't break style of pass defense, the longer it takes a team to get down field the more chances you have of making your own big play. I am sure at some point this season there will come a game when a team is pressing us with their pass game, for me that is the time that the Offence needs to stop up and create some opportunities of their own, after all this is a team effort. I want to see an offence that can make in game adjustments and effective game plans at the begining of games. That is what makes a team SCARY GOOD!!!

[Crow-Magnon]

Face facts. It's damned rare to have a defense that's at the top in every category worth tracking- sacks, fumbles, INT's, stopping the rush and stopping the pass. As it stands right now, any Steeler fan that is "questioning" their defense needs a psychiatric evaluation. Post-haste.

Right now (and holy shat it pains me to type this), Pittsburgh has the most complete defense in the NFL. Yes, it has some weak points, but every NFL defense does. The Ravens are supposed to be excellent at stopping the rush, but crapola against the pass without Foxworth and Reed. Yet this year they are doing well against passing attacks, yet have yielded some big gains on the ground. I really don't expect Mendenhall to go over 100 yards, but you never know.

Anyway, stop fretting over Pittsburgh's D. It's about the best in the business at this stage of the season.

[Kaeg]

I agree with the sentiment that we may be giving some up late simply because we have a lead, so we loosen up a little. Maybe a few more games will start to show definitively one way or the other. For now, I'm going with that.
:applaudit:

[fansince'76]

Honestly, I don't pay attention to any statistical rankings until at least 10 games into the season. 3 games is too small a sample size to truly accurately gauge where anybody is at statistically. For example, do you really believe the Ravens are only 23rd in run defense? That's where they're currently ranked. One big day by Peyton Hillis is skewing that stat based on the fact that they've only played 3 games to this point. Wait until about week 10 or 11, I'd be willing to bet they'll be top 5 in that category and our ranking in pass D will improve dramatically by then too.

[polamalubeast]

The opposing QB has a QB rating of 68 against the Steelers with only 1 touchdown pass and five interceptions.

In 2009, the Steelers had finished 16th against the pass, but the Steelers have given 22 touchdown passes against only 12 interceptions.

In 2008, the Steelers were given 12 touchdown passes against 20 interceptions.

Sometimes the yards are a misleading stats.

With Polamalu was an excellent defense against the pass!

[SteelerSal]

Hard to have a top 10 pass defense when you have the best run stopping defense....opposing teams are gonna pass more against us.
Our defense is better on the field than than any paper stat shows...take away the garbage prevent at the end of the game and the opposition has half the yardage and points.<----I will sacrifice this for the first 55 minutes of balls to the wall, 110%, high motored defensive output....ANYTIME!

[The Duke]

Sometimes the yards are a misleading stats.


This

I don't care how many they get as long as they don't score more than us

and good point about the TD:INT ratio

[steelpride12]

I can't really worry about that one bit. Sure when teams like the Saint's and other passing teams come to town there could be a good game, but were 3-0 under this defense and that's the most important stat of all! We beat the falcons and shut them down with our D and they are a pass first team, and other than White our secondary had a good enough game to win it. Im not worried stats other than your record shouldn't matter.

[vasteeler]

i think its that damned prevent defense

[GodfatherofSoul]

We're giving up a lot of garbage time yards. I remember thinking that at the end of the Tampa game. Labeau is going prevent at the end of the game and resting starters. Let the backups get game time experience and protect our assets. My only issue is we've cut it a little close (like the Titans getting to within one score). I could care less about statistics.

[CanadianSteel]

Teams cannot run so they pass against us...... also we have also faced some stiff competition the first 2 weeks as both Atlanta and Tits look like solid teams on the offensive side of te ball....

[Craic]

We're giving up a lot of garbage time yards. I remember thinking that at the end of the Tampa game. Labeau is going prevent at the end of the game and resting starters. Let the backups get game time experience and protect our assets. My only issue is we've cut it a little close (like the Titans getting to within one score). I could care less about statistics.

Yes, except in the Titans game, 5 times last year, and in 2 of the three playoffs games (including the SB), the garbage time yards made for a much closer game than it should have been, and put us in danger of losing the game, or we did lose the game.


I agree with everyone that stats themselves really don't matter, nor do they tell the entire truth. I also recognize that if you stop the run, then the ball has to go in the air. However, I WOULD like to see us able to stop the passing in the last 10 minutes of a game, as a lot of teams have come back from 1 or 2 scores down to make it interesting, if not win.

I think THAT, is my major concern.. are we seeing the pattern of last year and the year before continue? Will we keep seeing 55 minutes of unbelievable football, only to see the D get driven on and scored on to tighten or win games in the last 5 minutes.

--And no, I am not talking about the game vs. the Bucs. We had all second stringers who needed to get some work in a game.



FS... Your post makes a lot of sense... maybe 3 games in is too soon to be asking these questions. Stats are an indicator of what happens in on an AVERAGE day. So maybe we do need a few more games to tell the story.



i think its that damned prevent defense



You're dead on right. They don't call it a prevent defense for nothing...it prevents teams from keeping a cushion on the scoreboard and possibly winning games.

[O'Malley]

Yes, except in the Titans game, 5 times last year, and in 2 of the three playoffs games (including the SB), the garbage time yards made for a much closer game than it should have been, and put us in danger of losing the game, or we did lose the game.


I agree with everyone that stats themselves really don't matter, nor do they tell the entire truth. I also recognize that if you stop the run, then the ball has to go in the air. However, I WOULD like to see us able to stop the passing in the last 10 minutes of a game, as a lot of teams have come back from 1 or 2 scores down to make it interesting, if not win.

I think THAT, is my major concern.. are we seeing the pattern of last year and the year before continue? Will we keep seeing 55 minutes of unbelievable football, only to see the D get driven on and scored on to tighten or win games in the last 5 minutes.

--And no, I am not talking about the game vs. the Bucs. We had all second stringers who needed to get some work in a game.



FS... Your post makes a lot of sense... maybe 3 games in is too soon to be asking these questions. Stats are an indicator of what happens in on an AVERAGE day. So maybe we do need a few more games to tell the story.



You're dead on right. They don't call it a prevent defense for nothing...it prevents teams from keeping a cushion on the scoreboard and possibly winning games.

I hate the prevent as well. You hit the nail on the head it prevents you from winning. I would like that part of the playbook file 13'd.

[Craic]

Since Stats can be cherry-picked....

let me share some more stats that I found, that run counter to my earlier questions:

1. While our Pass D. is 5th in allowing the most completions, we are also 7th in attempted passes against us.

2. A better measurement then, may be Net Yards per Attempt, where we sit in 6th place for the LEAST amount of yards per attempt.

3. For first downs given up in passing, we are 19th, just 1 First down under the league average. When that is placed with our 6th place against rushing first downs, it puts us at 9th total.

4. We are also in 1st place with the least points against at 33 points.

5. 6th place in total yards allowed

6. 10th place in average yards per total plays. Respectable.

So these stats mute my original post a bit, but I still have to wonder about letting teams walk down the field late in the game... though now, I think I have completely answered my own question (and a few of you have as well).

The issue is scheme. The cover-2/Prevent that is employed at the end of a game seems to do more damage than good. After all, if a team hasn't been able to drive and score on us all day, why in the WORLD do we then go to a defense that ALLOWS a team to drive and score on us?

I can see two answers. One quite a bit more likely than the other. First, the less-likely one. It is part of LeBeau's scheme to trade points for time, finishing up games. Simply a football version of the time-space continuum. I discount this answer because I can't see ANY DC opting to allow points to be on the board. So my second answer is, Packages. With all the specialized fire-blitz schemes and packages and the personnel that goes along with it, could it be that LeBeau is afraid of being caught with the wrong package on the field in a no-huddle drive? If so, then the prevent defense would look like the unhappy medium. Not good enough to shut down the offense like the previous 55 minutes. Yet, good enough to not allow quick strikes down the field.

I have believe the latter is closer to the answer. Of course, that brings up another host of questions about the danger of having such specialized schemes and players.

[oneforthetoe]

i think its that damned prevent defense

Yes, all fans favorite defense the prevent. While I agree that many teams go to a prevent defense too early in games the prevent is a perfectly legitimate defense in the correct circumstances. Teams just need to pick the correct moment in the game to start instituting it.

I also think the the prevent gets a bad rep because it gets blamed every time a team comes back in a game, even if the defense was not in a prevent. If a team completes passes against the Steelers D in the fourth quarter of a game, while the Steelers are ahead, the first groans are always that we were in a prevent - especially if the Steelers didn't blitz on that particular play.. The fact is we don't blitz on every down in the first quarter either. Sometimes other teams just make plays as well.

Preacher referenced the Super Bowl against the Cards. However, I don't recall any kind of prevent defense permitting the Cards to matriculate the ball down the field on us. The play that changed the game was that long TD play to Fitz. That wasn't the fault of a prevent D. It was simply the Steelers getting beat by two players who will probably end up in the Hall of Fame.

When you hold down and offense like the 2008 Cards, Peyton and the Colts, or Tommy boy's Pats for most of a game, you might have to expect they will eventually be able to make some plays, regardless of the type of scheme that you employ.

So yes, when to "call of the dogs" is not always an easy decision in a game, even for as a master like Lebeau. However, at times it is the correct call to preserve the only thing that matters - the win.

[Craic]

Yes, all fans favorite defense the prevent. While I agree that many teams go to a prevent defense too early in games the prevent is a perfectly legitimate defense in the correct circumstances. Teams just need to pick the correct moment in the game to start instituting it.

I also think the the prevent gets a bad rep because it gets blamed every time a team comes back in a game, even if the defense was not in a prevent. If a team completes passes against the Steelers D in the fourth quarter of a game, while the Steelers are ahead, the first groans are always that we were in a prevent - especially if the Steelers didn't blitz on that particular play.. The fact is we don't blitz on every down in the first quarter either. Sometimes other teams just make plays as well.

Preacher referenced the Super Bowl against the Cards. However, I don't recall any kind of prevent defense permitting the Cards to matriculate the ball down the field on us. The play that changed the game was that long TD play to Fitz. That wasn't the fault of a prevent D. It was simply the Steelers getting beat by two players who will probably end up in the Hall of Fame.

When you hold down and offense like the 2008 Cards, Peyton and the Colts, or Tommy boy's Pats for most of a game, you might have to expect they will eventually be able to make some plays, regardless of the type of scheme that you employ.

So yes, I don't enjoy a prevent defense, but is is necessary at times and not the cause of every negative Steelers' play in the fourth quarter.

I think you are very correct... the prevent does get blamed for a lot, as does the cover-2. I remember some posters screaming about the cover-2 when we had only one safety on the field... or one safety and the other was blitzing. Furthermore, you absolutely correct that in the playoffs, and heck, some of the games last year, it wasn't always the cover-2 that was causing the problems.

Yet, when you look at it this year, it seems to be that the prevent did allow the Titans to drive for a touchdown and almost another one, which would have lost the game for us. For some reason, I can't even remember the first game now... but I think it wasn't the prevent there, which means that we DO have some secondary problems in the passing game.

All in all, the more I think about this, I think FS probably has the right perspective. We have to get at least another 4 games under our belt before we can really start seeing "trends" as opposed to "happenings".

[oneforthetoe]

Yet, when you look at it this year, it seems to be that the prevent did allow the Titans to drive for a touchdown and almost another one, which would have lost the game for us. For some reason, I can't even remember the first game now... but I think it wasn't the prevent there, which means that we DO have some secondary problems in the passing game.



I think you might be correct about the prevent in the Titans game. However, the instituting a prevent in that game may have been a necessity because our D was absolutely exhausted at the end of that game.

[Steel12]

The way this usually works is, a lot of bad teams end up with "good" pass defense stats because they're getting blown out and their opponents start running a lot ... and a lot of good teams end up looking worse than they are against the pass because they get ahead and their opponents start passing a lot. Every year, you end up with a bunch of last-place teams finishing high in the pass defense category.

Look at last year, for example. You had

2. Buffalo (6-10)
3. Denver (8-8)
4. Carolina (8-8)
7. Oakland (5-11)
8. Washington (4-12)
10. Tampa (3-13)

This year, below us, you've got teams like the Colts, Patriots, Bears, Falcons all below us ... Houston is dead last, for that matter. This is one of those stats that can really belie the true story. Though as the season goes on, things do tend to sort themselves out if you legitimately have a good all-around defense, which I believe we do.

Good post...very informative

[steeldevil]

I could not care less how many passing yards we allow... The team with the most passing yards DOES NOT WIN... The team with the most points wins. That is the only defensive statistic that is important to me really... All the other nice stats are just bonuses. I think we are 1st in points allowed so were good.

[polamalubeast]

I could not care less how many passing yards we allow... The team with the most passing yards DOES NOT WIN... The team with the most points wins. That is the only defensive statistic that is important to me really... All the other nice stats are just bonuses. I think we are 1st in points allowed so were good.

True!

As the Titans have given only 21 passing yards against the Steelers and they lost, but they gave 386 passing yards against the Giants and they won!:lol:

[Chidi29]

A better indicator would be yards per completion or yards per attempt. With teams not having success running against us, and falling behind in games, especially the Bucs game, they're obviously made them pass more and gain more yards through the air by sheer volume.

As said, the prevent didn't help the stats. We still have the weakness of getting cherry-picked underneath at times. That's just LeBeau's scheme. In a nutshell: Nothing over your head. Force them to put together long drives.

[RushHard34]

Face facts. It's damned rare to have a defense that's at the top in every category worth tracking- sacks, fumbles, INT's, stopping the rush and stopping the pass. As it stands right now, any Steeler fan that is "questioning" their defense needs a psychiatric evaluation. Post-haste.

Right now (and holy shat it pains me to type this), Pittsburgh has the most complete defense in the NFL. Yes, it has some weak points, but every NFL defense does. The Ravens are supposed to be excellent at stopping the rush, but crapola against the pass without Foxworth and Reed. Yet this year they are doing well against passing attacks, yet have yielded some big gains on the ground. I really don't expect Mendenhall to go over 100 yards, but you never know.

Anyway, stop fretting over Pittsburgh's D. It's about the best in the business at this stage of the season.


^^^ This

[pepsyman1]

Preacher you actually just recently answered my questions about this and our pass coverage within the 3-4 scheme we run and how far off our corners play. I think what we are currently seeing through most of the game is pretty normal for our defense but I'm really concerned at why LeBeau chooses to go so soft and stop blitzing at the end of the last couple of games. They have been extremely soft with the cushions they've given the wide receivers at the end of both games and given up big chunks of yardage. I don't remember our team ever having great stats in terms of passes defended. (most of our interceptions on defense usually DON"T come from our cornerbacks) The one thing that I would really like to see is for our cornerbacks to shorten their cushion just a little bit. Instead of playing 8-12 yards off, how about 6-7 yards off. That's still enough room to keep an eye on the run and have space to react to it. It would give them a better opportunity to challenge some of the passes and not require a herculean effort to get an interception.

[Craic]

Preacher you actually just recently answered my questions about this and our pass coverage within the 3-4 scheme we run and how far off our corners play. I think what we are currently seeing through most of the game is pretty normal for our defense but I'm really concerned at why LeBeau chooses to go so soft and stop blitzing at the end of the last couple of games. They have been extremely soft with the cushions they've given the wide receivers at the end of both games and given up big chunks of yardage. I don't remember our team ever having great stats in terms of passes defended. (most of our interceptions on defense usually DON"T come from our cornerbacks) The one thing that I would really like to see is for our cornerbacks to shorten their cushion just a little bit. Instead of playing 8-12 yards off, how about 6-7 yards off. That's still enough room to keep an eye on the run and have space to react to it. It would give them a better opportunity to challenge some of the passes and not require a herculean effort to get an interception.

True, but when we do move to a prevent, the key is to not allow ANYONE to get behind you AT ANY TIME. That is why they move even further back. So that every offensive player, when they catch the ball, has to run TOWARDS their opponent, instead of away from them.

[Craic]

A better indicator would be yards per completion or yards per attempt. With teams not having success running against us, and falling behind in games, especially the Bucs game, they're obviously made them pass more and gain more yards through the air by sheer volume.

As said, the prevent didn't help the stats. We still have the weakness of getting cherry-picked underneath at times. That's just LeBeau's scheme. In a nutshell: Nothing over your head. Force them to put together long drives.

See, I agree with you the entire way. It isn't the stats themselves I worry about, as I said many times I could care less about stats, only about wins. What I DO worry about however, is what they may indicate about our ability to win close games against strong passing teams, especially in the playoffs if we get there. Currently, if you look back at previous post of mine, our YPA is pretty dang good. The problem is, we had very good numbers last year, but we all know that we lost 5 games because our D couldn't hold the lead late.

I also have to wonder (and if I get the time, I'll go back and watch the games again), how much the total YPA is tilted with heavy pickups in the last few minutes. By that I mean, the average may be good, but that may be because we have an unbelievable average in the first 3quarters, and a horrid average in the fourth.

Is this much ado about nothing? Dang I hope so. And again, I think FS is correct when he says we need to wait a few games to see how it really plays out. But every team has its Achilles heal. The question for us, is whether a known Achilles heel in the past, has been fixed.

[Craic]

Another last second loss by the pass defense.

Now, to be fair, 1. Gay had two AMAZING plays in the previous series where the defense held. 2. The Steelers offense had a penalty that killed them, shorting the endzone for Sep. AND, there was a penalty on the PR that shortened the field again. I acknowledge both of them.

However, If we were able to hold at the 1 yard line... then how do we let them walk down the field and score with a minute left AND NO TIME OUTS?

All our top players were in. It wasn't garbage time, and our Pass D. died in the end. Our D. HAS TO learn to hold on to the lead. After all, THERE IS NO REASON why they should have let the Ravens drive to the 2 before stopping them. The passing game of the Ravens killed the steelers today. We stopped the run, but when it counted, couldn't stop the pass.

Is the Sky Falling? Absolutely not. With Ben coming back, with Mendy running some TOUGH yards today, with a 3 point loss against the best defense in the NFL (I have to put ours as second after today), I say we are well on our way to a great year. But this is the squeeky wheel now, and it needs to be fixed.

[SteelerSal]

I agree Preacher...it needs to be addressed and some adjustments need to be made.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I agree. The pass D has to tighten up. They have to be able to make a stop when we need it.

[SteelerSal]

Just seemed like today we did not apply enough heat on Flacco. IMO

[Edman]

After what I've seen today?

It's not so good.

[tube517]

The Ravens used Atlanta's strategy and it worked for them.

Combination of poor pass D, penalties, missed FG's. Baltimore was the better team today.

After Cleveland is 3 straight road games against tough opponents. This is going to be a critical stretch.

We're fortunate to be 3-1 now.

[RheeRhee]

Just seemed like today we did not apply enough heat on Flacco. IMO

we tried. we definitely brought heat. the ravens just picked it up like nobody's business. amazing blocking by their tackles and todd heap. Steelers pass D goes as harrison and woodley go. no pressure on QB = average defense. shoulda coulda woulda.

[Craic]

we tried. we definitely brought heat. the ravens just picked it up like nobody's business. amazing blocking by their tackles and todd heap. Steelers pass D goes as harrison and woodley go. no pressure on QB = average defense. shoulda coulda woulda.

The question I have though, is actually considered heretical for just asking it:

At what point does a scheme depend so much on the exceptional players playing at the their top level, that the scheme itself gets to be too dangerous? There seems to be no cushion for an "off day" in our defensive schemes. If one player has a bad day, our Pass D. is horrid. Today, that off day would be on the Pass Rush. Our DB's played well, except for McFadden's badly timed PI. Yet our pass D was still bad, because our LB's played above average today, instead of outstanding.

[fansince'76]

Blitzing Taz on the winning TD pass play for the Ravens = bad gamble.

[fansince'76]

The question I have though, is actually considered heretical for just asking it:

At what point does a scheme depend so much on the exceptional players playing at the their top level, that the scheme itself gets to be too dangerous? There seems to be no cushion for an "off day" in our defensive schemes. If one player has a bad day, our Pass D. is horrid. Today, that off day would be on the Pass Rush. Our DB's played well, except for McFadden's badly timed PI. Yet our pass D was still bad, because our LB's played above average today, instead of outstanding.

You forgot, Preacher - there will be no hint of criticism of LeBeau or his schemes of any kind. It's all Arians' fault! This post is awfully close to blasphemy! :chuckle:

[Crow-Magnon]

The Ravens used Atlanta's strategy and it worked for them.

Combination of poor pass D, penalties, missed FG's. Baltimore was the better team today.

After Cleveland is 3 straight road games against tough opponents. This is going to be a critical stretch.

We're fortunate to be 3-1 now.

And Cleveland ain't no pushover anymore. They almost beat Baltimore last week and they took Cincy down a peg today. Neither of our teams can look at Browns games like 'gimmes' anymore this year.

[stillers4me]

Blitzing Taz on the winning TD pass play for the Ravens = bad gamble.

ding ding ding!!!!

[pepsyman1]

The question I have though, is actually considered heretical for just asking it:

At what point does a scheme depend so much on the exceptional players playing at the their top level, that the scheme itself gets to be too dangerous? There seems to be no cushion for an "off day" in our defensive schemes. If one player has a bad day, our Pass D. is horrid. Today, that off day would be on the Pass Rush. Our DB's played well, except for McFadden's badly timed PI. Yet our pass D was still bad, because our LB's played above average today, instead of outstanding.

Preacher, I agree with you 100%. It appears that there is something fundamentally wrong with what we are doing on pass defense. Baltimore plays a similar defense to our own but they seem to be contesting the pass plays much better than we are. We heard very little out of our wideouts today, mostly because they were well covered. We just don't seem to have the tight cover guys in our secondary. If we did, Flacco would have been sacked a few times today. As it was, whenever he faded back, even with max protection in the backfield with him, he had an open wideout or tight end. I think we need some real adjustments to how we handle pass coverage. The zone D we are playing is being taken advantage of

[Merchant]

Guys, guys.. Come on now. We are clearly overlooking the most important statistic from today's game.

Interceptions:
IKE TAYLOR: 1

:O :O :O

[pepsyman1]

Guys, guys.. Come on now. We are clearly overlooking the most important statistic from today's game.

Interceptions:
IKE TAYLOR: 1

:O :O :O

Like the writer said Merchant..."I thought an asteroid would hit the Ravens sideline shortly after" lol

[Craic]

Guys, guys.. Come on now. We are clearly overlooking the most important statistic from today's game.

Interceptions:
IKE TAYLOR: 1

:O :O :O

I had to replay it two or three times to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me! :chuckle:

[VTsteel]

Yes pass defense is bad . . .

BMac played like shit on their winning pass play. He should've sealed off that passing lane knowing he had no middle help from the safety.

I am not real impressed with Ike either today. Mason got him a few times

Does our Pass Defense suck a$$ in the final two minutes so far this year? ABSOLUTELY. And it needs to be addressed.

:mad2:

[Corey_J]

Lets be real ! That BS blitz at the end of the game was terribly performed. NO POWER/SPEED to it. Slowly developed and didnt do anything but put our cbs in terrible position for the play ! If we want to blame the secondary for the loss, we need to put the blame on that terrible effort at a blitz. IMO all that game did was give Flacco a false sense of hope that he is a good QB. He is the most overated qb in my eyes.

[steeldawg]

Lets really be real if our offense would've capitalized on the 2 turnovers we our defense forced in their territory the game would not have been that close. The blitz at the end was the right call mcfaddon bit on the double move even though there was coverage underneath. That play is designed to either get a sack or force the qb to check down his pass, by checking the pass down we make a tackle clock runs they have no time outs. I thought it was a good call but poorly executed.

[O'Malley]

Two missed Fieldgoals did not help.

[pepsyman1]

No doubt, what everyone is saying about capitalizing on the turnovers is 100% correct, but that being said it doesn't diminish the problems we are having defending the pass. In our 2008 Superbowl season we were ranked first against the pass and gave up only 56% completions...so far this year we are ranked 18th and are giving up 66% completions. We are simply to soft on coverage right now and it's gonna be a problem when we run into some of the better passing teams.

[steeldawg]

I think it is sku'd right now because our offense cant move the ball. we are going 3 and out very often which means more opportunities for opposing offenses.

[Corey_J]

Lets really be real if our offense would've capitalized on the 2 turnovers we our defense forced in their territory the game would not have been that close. The blitz at the end was the right call mcfaddon bit on the double move even though there was coverage underneath. That play is designed to either get a sack or force the qb to check down his pass, by checking the pass down we make a tackle clock runs they have no time outs. I thought it was a good call but poorly executed.
You obviously didnt see the same blitz I saw. It was terrible. Im ok with the call, but if your going to call that blitz then it needs to be ran to perfection and with some power. It wasnt either of those things. The double move wouldnt have mattered if the pressure would have got there !!!!!!!!

[GBMelBlount]

In 2008 our defense was stout and we won 5 or 6 games we were losing in the 4th quarter.

In 2009 I think we lost 4 or 5 games we were winning in the 4th quarter.

I just hate it when it looks like we are playing more "not to lose" than win....

[tube517]

After last year's debacle, I don't look at any division games as gimmes. As a matter of fact, no NFL game is a "Gimme" anymore. That's why I keep saying, we are fortunate to be 3-1 now.


And Cleveland ain't no pushover anymore. They almost beat Baltimore last week and they took Cincy down a peg today. Neither of our teams can look at Browns games like 'gimmes' anymore this year.

[Craic]

After last year's debacle, I don't look at any games as gimmes or score as safe. As a matter of fact, no NFL game is a "Gimme" anymore with our pass coverage. That's why I keep saying, we are fortunate to be 3-1 now.

Fixed it for ya!

[LLT]

McFadden is an upgrade from last year...but is still a liability. I am still thinking that OT is the priority in next years draft...but CB is starting to look like a close second.

[Steeldude]

IMO, if lebeau would be more aggressive with the coverage/blitzing schemes the pass defense will improve.

the steelers also have the top 3 most burned CBs in the NFL last year. that can't be a good thing.

[Steeldude]

Blitzing Taz on the winning TD pass play for the Ravens = bad gamble.

i agree. polamalu is the best pass defender on the team.

i wish the steelers would have tried passing instead of running on each play.

[oneforthetoe]

Blitzing Taz on the winning TD pass play for the Ravens = bad gamble.

I agree that I prefer Troy in coverage more than blitzing. However, earlier in the game Troy blitzed, blew through a block, and forced Flacco to throw the ball away. On the TD play, according to the "experts" at NFL network, Flacco recognized the blitz and called Heap over to block Troy. Good play by Flacco, actually. What is the saying? Live by the blitz and die by the blitz. So yes, it was a gamble sending Troy, but it fairness had worked earlier.

[Steeldude]

I agree that I prefer Troy in coverage more than blitzing. However, earlier in the game Troy blitzed, blew through a block, and forced Flacco to throw the ball away. On the TD play, according to the "experts" at NFL network, Flacco recognized the blitz and called Heap over to block Troy. Good play by Flacco, actually. What is the saying? Live by the blitz and die by the blitz. So yes, it was a gamble sending Troy, but it fairness had worked earlier.

i get what you are saying, but they were at different points in the game. the steelers CBs are burned the most in the NFL(2009 stats). sending the only pass defender on a blitz after playing so passively the first two plays was not a good call, IMO.

that being said, what can you do? lebeau is the experienced one. i guess he thought it would have worked. i would have liked to see a more aggressive or less bland blitzes called on the first two plays. leaving the often burned mcfadden alone is not a good idea.

[Buckinnuts]

the corners suck, never did like taylor, was glad to see mcfadden leave ,not happy when he returned he failed out there, but now neither of them is even close to covering their own ass. once in a while they get one right, that's why troy
takes over all the time ..............

[steeldawg]

You obviously didnt see the same blitz I saw. It was terrible. Im ok with the call, but if your going to call that blitz then it needs to be ran to perfection and with some power. It wasnt either of those things. The double move wouldnt have mattered if the pressure would have got there !!!!!!!!
I said it was a good call but poorly executed. And the blitz wasnt ran only to get a sack its designed to make him get rid of the ball quickly.

[steeldawg]

How can we go from calling our defense dominate to now saying they suck. Its completely ridiculous our defense is solid, the zone blitz means the corners are playing a zone not bump and run. Its designed to make the offense throw short and we come up and make tackles. Its a bend but dont break style, teams have to sustain long drives to score on us we rarely give up big plays. I love our D and i love the scheme !!!

[tube517]

Maybe blitz McFadden and let Troy cover the receiver. I'd rather see Troy in coverage late in the game than blitzing.


i get what you are saying, but they were at different points in the game. the steelers CBs are burned the most in the NFL(2009 stats). sending the only pass defender on a blitz after playing so passively the first two plays was not a good call, IMO.

that being said, what can you do? lebeau is the experienced one. i guess he thought it would have worked. i would have liked to see a more aggressive or less bland blitzes called on the first two plays. leaving the often burned mcfadden alone is not a good idea.

[Craic]

How can we go from calling our defense dominate to now saying they suck. Its completely ridiculous our defense is solid, the zone blitz means the corners are playing a zone not bump and run. Its designed to make the offense throw short and we come up and make tackles. Its a bend but dont break style, teams have to sustain long drives to score on us we rarely give up big plays. I love our D and i love the scheme !!!

I don't think anyone here is saying our defense sucks. I think most people are finally starting to question the pass defense in late game situations, which has been a black eye for the Steelers for the last 15+ years, as documented earlier.

[fansince'76]

How can we go from calling our defense dominate to now saying they suck.

Nope, never said they suck, but the comparisons to the '76 defense need to end.

[Edman]

With this Steelers team, nothing is a slam dunk. Period. With the Pass D being so mediocre, we make average QB's look awesome. We transform mediocre offenses into the greatest show on turf in the 4th Quarter. Because our scheme is so passive and our corners and safety play so subpar. Sans Troy. Clark has slowly regressed into near Brett Alexander territory. He is so overrated it's not even funny.

With the way they blew games last year, it'd be foolish to see Cleveland as a gimme game too. They beat us worse than the score indicated last year, and that was WITH Ben.

Bottomline, the Cardinals in XLIII provided a blueprint for beating the Steelers Defense. Ever since that game, nearly everyone has been putting up career/franchise numbers on them. It frightens me what Drew Brees and Tom Brady will do to them this year.

[Craic]

Nope, never said they suck, but the comparisons to the '76 defense need to end.

I'll stand by my comparison of teh 08 defense to the 76 one, but not the last two installments.

[Craic]

Just seems like the right time to bump this thread.

[tube517]

You don't have to remind us, we all know.


Just seems like the right time to bump this thread.

[JayC]

http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/puke.gif

[Psycho Ward 86]

http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/puke.gif

i concur.

[fansince'76]

Usually passable until the 4th quarter anyway - goes back all the way to SB XLIII.

[tube517]

Yep. Ever since then, everyone knows how to attack the defense.



Usually passable until the 4th quarter anyway - goes back all the way to SB XLIII.

[steelpride12]

Why do stats matter when your 6-2. We have a damn solid defense with a minor weakness. I guess that shows how good it is when it's ranked 19th in the NFL in passing game, but we are 6-2 and the defense is feared.
Of course we stop the run on teams completely and if you notice most teams abandon it after the first period forcing them to pass the rest of the game. Other than Gay I think we have good looking CB's.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Why do stats matter when your 6-2. We have a damn solid defense with a minor weakness. I guess that shows how good it is when it's ranked 19th in the NFL in passing game, but we are 6-2 and the defense is feared.
Of course we stop the run on teams completely and if you notice most teams abandon it after the first period forcing them to pass the rest of the game. Other than Gay I think we have good looking CB's.

Minor weakness? More like a gaping hole. :lol:

[tube517]

Other than Ike Taylor, our CB's are suspect.


Why do stats matter when your 6-2. We have a damn solid defense with a minor weakness. I guess that shows how good it is when it's ranked 19th in the NFL in passing game, but we are 6-2 and the defense is feared.
Of course we stop the run on teams completely and if you notice most teams abandon it after the first period forcing them to pass the rest of the game. Other than Gay I think we have good looking CB's.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Other than Ike Taylor, our CB's are suspect.

Yep. Ike is the only one capable of covering a WR 1 on 1.

[steelpride12]

Minor weakness? More like a gaping hole. :lol:
And were still 6-2 with a gaping defense haha jokes on you.