Don't blame Ben Roethlisberger for Steelers' failures against Patriots

[polamalubeast]

The Steelers and Patriots have met in the playoffs just twice since 2004, when Ben Roethlisberger was drafted by Pittsburgh. And even though the Steelers have two Super Bowl wins and three appearances in that span, many still believe New England's relative reign over the AFC for the last 15-20 years has deterred Pittsburgh from even more success in the Roethlisberger era. After all, Big Ben is just 4-8 as a starter against the Pats.

But now, thanks to Pro Football Focus, Roethlisberger has an interesting stat on his side. Anybody who wants to claim the Patriots have owned the Steelers because Tom Brady is so much better than Roethlisberger needs to dig deeper for legitimate arguments.

PFF's Ben Linsey recently published a list of what he calls "NFL team-killers" - basically the one opposing player who has been the biggest headache for each NFL team since 2006 (the PFF era). They are defined in the article as "the players who have played a minimum of 300 snaps against a given team and picked up the highest overall grade."

As for the player who has hurt the Patriots most over the years? Yep. No. 7 from Pittsburgh, credited with a 90.5 overall grade against New England.

Here is PFF's explanation:

"Sure to upset the #QBWINZ crowd, Roethlisberger comes out as the top-graded player against the Patriots despite being just 4-8 against Brady and company. The tape shows, however, that the subpar record hasn't been his fault. Big Ben's touchdown to interception ratio of 18-to-10 doesn't overly impress, but his big-time throw to turnover-worthy play ratio of 28:8 is much more impressive. The discrepancy indicates that luck hasn't been on his side in the matchup, but that doesn't detract from him playing at a high level."

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https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/ben-roethlisberger-steelers-patriots/1szhjvq53qfc71qmxp24s1sel9?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Fire Goodell]

Ben is the reason why the team isn't 0-12 against NE. I always thought it was more our defensive scheme / personnel matched up badly against their offense.

Last season the defense was the best I've seen it against Brady, however. It was basically the TJ Watt show, nearly every play he was in Brady's face and that was probably a huge reason why we won. Someone on the defense finally stepped up.

[hawaiiansteeler]

no need, we have Tomlin and Butler for that.

[st33lersguy]

I always thought the story of those games was Brady carving up the defense, not anything against Ben

[polamalubeast]

Ben is the reason why the team isn't 0-12 against NE. I always thought it was more our defensive scheme / personnel matched up badly against their offense.

Last season the defense was the best I've seen it against Brady, however. It was basically the TJ Watt show, nearly every play he was in Brady's face and that was probably a huge reason why we won. Someone on the defense finally stepped up.

To be honest, Ben had not had a great game against the pats, last december ..... The defense had their best game of the year in this game.

But the problem against the pats before that was our defense .... Before 2017, Brady had no interception against the steelers in 12 years and he had like 22 TD with that .... Our offense had no margin of error and it was against a pats defense for the most part has often been underrated.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I always thought the story of those games was Brady carving up the defense, not anything against Ben

exactly, LeBeau and Butler playing soft zones and allowing Brady to dink and dunk us to death is what always has driven us crazy.

I don't recall Ben ever being mentioned...

[steelreserve]

That's fine, I already blamed the vanilla zone defense for our record against the Patriots. As soon as we stopped doing that, we beat them the last two times in a row.

[polamalubeast]

That's fine, I already blamed the vanilla zone defense for our record against the Patriots. As soon as we stopped doing that, we beat them the last two times in a row.

The Chargers had done the same thing (vanilla zone defense) in their playoff game against Brady and the result was predictable .... Game over at halftime despite very good pass rusher in their team!

Sometimes Ben did his best to keep us in the game, but not always easy to do when you have no room for error .... In the game that the pats had scored 55 points, the game was not over after 3 quarter, which was a big achievement .

[Edman]

Actually Ben is 5-7* against the Patriots.

They lost that game in '17 and they know it.

[GoSlash27]

Actually Ben is 5-7* against the Patriots.

They lost that game in '17 and they know it.

Yup. :nod:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Actually Ben is 5-7* against the Patriots.

They lost that game in '17 and they know it.

So, don't blame Ben for the failures against the Patriots, but make sure he gets credit for the 5 wins. Sounds about right.

[polamalubeast]

So, don't blame Ben for the failures against the Patriots, but make sure he gets credit for the 5 wins. Sounds about right.

It was more of a team effort the Steelers wins against Brady

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

It was more of a team effort the Steelers wins against Brady

Just like it was probably more of a team effort by the other 52 guys on the Patriots not named Brady.

[Steeldude]

Losses were mainly due to the Steelers defense.

[86WARD]

Defense. That is all.

[pczach]

Just like it was probably more of a team effort by the other 52 guys on the Patriots not named Brady.



And yet it's Brady that gets credit from nearly everyone for every Patriots victory, but gets no blame for losses. It is also said that he has almost no talent around him, and he doesn't need talented players around him because he's the GOAT. We are told he makes everyone better with his sheer greatness. His team has been known to cheat at every turn, but he still gets credit for everything. His arm strength and mobility keep getting better as he gets older, but nobody mentions that he has to be using PEDs for that to happen and has been for years.

Many people here wish Roethlisberger was just like him. I don't.

Funny how that is.

[fansince'76]

And yet it's Brady that gets credit from nearly everyone for every Patriots victory, but gets no blame for losses. It is also said that he has almost no talent around him, and he doesn't need talented players around him because he's the GOAT. We are told he makes everyone better with his sheer greatness. His team has been known to cheat at every turn, but he still gets credit for everything. His arm strength and mobility keep getting better as he gets older, but nobody mentions that he has to be using PEDs for that to happen and has been for years.

Many people here wish Roethlisberger was just like him. I don't.

Funny how that is.

I've long suspected that quack "trainer" of his to be feeding him PEDs.

[teegre]

Hines Ward always blamed the tapes. I’m siding with him in this regard.

Yes, our defensive gameplan has sucked against them. Yes, we seem to lose key players right before those matchups. Yes, other key players seem to have their worst games against the Taperiots.

But, the tape allegations, and the headsets not working, and the game clock malfunctions, and the extra speakers in the helmets, and the litany of “random” events... well... you can connect the dots.

I’m not saying we couldn’t have prepared better and/or played better... I’m saying that we also had to overcome unsportsmanlike actions by the opposition.

[Born2Steel]

Teryl Austin is supposed to be in the booth vs the Pats at Foxboro. His job is to help Tomlin with clock management, and when to challenge. Any odds on when the headsets will “malfunction” and disrupt communication? Because it will happen.

[Fire Goodell]

Teryl Austin is supposed to be in the booth vs the Pats at Foxboro. His job is to help Tomlin with clock management, and when to challenge. Any odds on when the headsets will “malfunction” and disrupt communication? Because it will happen.

Highly likely. Odd you know this kind of things happen to supposedly one of the most well-funded franchises in the league, you think they could afford some decent headsets and comm systems. It's almost like it's intentional... nah... :chuckle:

[SteelersNorth]

So, don't blame Ben for the failures against the Patriots, but make sure he gets credit for the 5 wins. Sounds about right.

That's an Aaron Rodgersism - blame everyone but the QB lol

[fansince'76]

That's an Aaron Rodgersism - blame everyone but the QB lol

Yeah, but with Rodgers, the media (in particular) generally plays right along with it and he's given every possible benefit of the doubt. Roethlisberger? Not so much...

[Edman]

The failures against the Patriots are a mixture of horrid luck, total team failure and self-destructive arrogance to the coaching staff allowing them to be outcoached by Belichick.

1) Coaching staff laying off the Offensive gas after building a 24-16 lead in 2017, Letting NE back in the game.

2) Everyone knows Brady and the Patriots Offense are completely designed to beat Zone Defense and their weakness is man coverage, yet the Steelers coaches kept trotting it out for years. Gronk or no Gronk, Brady continually humiliated the Zone Defense. Is it any wonder that when the Steelers played their defense differently, the games have been much closer and even beat those asswipes?

3) The Steelers are usually missing a critical piece in their losses to the Pats. Minus Ben in 2016, Losing Bell in the first quarter in the Championship, Losing Brown in 2017.

Lack of talent and ability isn't the issue. The Steelers always had the stuff to beat the Patriots, but their coaching was always the edge in these matchups. Tomlin is no match for Belichick.

[vasteeler]

The failures against the Patriots are a mixture of horrid luck, total team failure and self-destructive arrogance to the coaching staff allowing them to be outcoached by Belichick.

1) Coaching staff laying off the Offensive gas after building a 24-16 lead in 2017, Letting NE back in the game.

2) Everyone knows Brady and the Patriots Offense are completely designed to beat Zone Defense and their weakness is man coverage, yet the Steelers coaches kept trotting it out for years. Gronk or no Gronk, Brady continually humiliated the Zone Defense. Is it any wonder that when the Steelers played their defense differently, the games have been much closer and even beat those asswipes?

3) The Steelers are usually missing a critical piece in their losses to the Pats. Minus Ben in 2016, Losing Bell in the first quarter in the Championship, Losing Brown in 2017.

Lack of talent and ability isn't the issue. The Steelers always had the stuff to beat the Patriots, but their coaching was always the edge in these matchups. Tomlin is no match for Belichick.

To be fair not many coaches are a match for Belichick. Tomlin certainly isn't the only one to be out coached by that guy.

[Craic]

The failures against the Patriots are a mixture of horrid luck, total team failure and self-destructive arrogance to the coaching staff allowing them to be outcoached by Belichick.

1) Coaching staff laying off the Offensive gas after building a 24-16 lead in 2017, Letting NE back in the game.

2) Everyone knows Brady and the Patriots Offense are completely designed to beat Zone Defense and their weakness is man coverage, yet the Steelers coaches kept trotting it out for years. Gronk or no Gronk, Brady continually humiliated the Zone Defense. Is it any wonder that when the Steelers played their defense differently, the games have been much closer and even beat those asswipes?

3) The Steelers are usually missing a critical piece in their losses to the Pats. Minus Ben in 2016, Losing Bell in the first quarter in the Championship, Losing Brown in 2017.

Lack of talent and ability isn't the issue. The Steelers always had the stuff to beat the Patriots, but their coaching was always the edge in these matchups. Tomlin is no match for Belichick.

Actually, that's not correct. Steelers went into the Pats* stadium with a man-to-man game plan. And, the first three times they implemented it, they were burned bad (https://twitter.com/gerrydulac/status/824004536771690496) because they didn't have the CB skill (issue was actually William Gay at the end of his career). So, they had to switch back to zone. Since then, we've played them twice. In the first game, Brady threw 1 TD and 1 INT. He 22/35 for 298 yards and 2 sacks. Only reason we lost that game was because of the catch rule that was changed after that. In the second game, Brady was 25/36 for 279 yards. I TD and 1 INT again.

To me, it looks as though we had a problem with CBs and then we moved to fix the problem and in the two years since then, we should have been 2-0 while keeping Brady pretty much under control.

[Edman]

Actually, that's not correct. Steelers went into the Pats* stadium with a man-to-man game plan. And, the first three times they implemented it, they were burned bad (https://twitter.com/gerrydulac/status/824004536771690496) because they didn't have the CB skill (issue was actually William Gay at the end of his career). So, they had to switch back to zone. Since then, we've played them twice. In the first game, Brady threw 1 TD and 1 INT. He 22/35 for 298 yards and 2 sacks. Only reason we lost that game was because of the catch rule that was changed after that. In the second game, Brady was 25/36 for 279 yards. I TD and 1 INT again.

To me, it looks as though we had a problem with CBs and then we moved to fix the problem and in the two years since then, we should have been 2-0 while keeping Brady pretty much under control.

The Steelers tried it and failed, but I would rather take a chance and fail than never take a chance and always fail, which is what the Steelers have done for the most part against New England.

I can't help but believe that losing to New England for all of these years has shattered the confidence of the team and the organization, so they overcompensate with arrogance, which I also believe did them in 2017.

[Born2Steel]

Steelers vs Patriots since 1972 = 16-16
Steelers vs Raiders since 1970 = 13-16
Steelers vs Bengals since 1970 = 64-35
Steelers vs Browns since 1950 = 75-58-1
Steelers vs Ravens since 1996 = 28-22

My point? The Steelers win the games they need to win over history. These Patriots will fade and the Steelers will still be in contention every year. Remember the Montana 49ers? The Aikman Cowboys? The Purple People Eaters? The Orange Crush? Consecutive 4 time AFC Champ Bills? They all fade. Only the Steelers have remained relevant throughout the league's history.

[teegre]

Blame Ben: no

Blame injuries: a little

Blame poor defensive strategy: some

Blame bad luck/fluke plays*: a lot

Blame the Taperiots for cheating: 100%



*random special teams TD, Joey Porter dropped pick-six, Jesse Janes TD reversal, et cetera

[HollywoodSteel]

Steelers vs Patriots since 1972 = 16-16
Steelers vs Raiders since 1970 = 13-16
Steelers vs Bengals since 1970 = 64-35
Steelers vs Browns since 1950 = 75-58-1
Steelers vs Ravens since 1996 = 28-22

My point? The Steelers win the games they need to win over history. These Patriots will fade and the Steelers will still be in contention every year. Remember the Montana 49ers? The Aikman Cowboys? The Purple People Eaters? The Orange Crush? Consecutive 4 time AFC Champ Bills? They all fade. Only the Steelers have remained relevant throughout the league's history.

I love the sentiment, but what exactly do you think is special about the Steelers that makes things inevitable? How are we better than the Patriots as an organization moving forward? The coaching? The ownership? The uniforms?

[SteelersNorth]

And yet it's Brady that gets credit from nearly everyone for every Patriots victory, but gets no blame for losses. It is also said that he has almost no talent around him, and he doesn't need talented players around him because he's the GOAT. We are told he makes everyone better with his sheer greatness. His team has been known to cheat at every turn, but he still gets credit for everything. His arm strength and mobility keep getting better as he gets older, but nobody mentions that he has to be using PEDs for that to happen and has been for years.

Many people here wish Roethlisberger was just like him. I don't.

Funny how that is.

that would be one 'Mr Overrated' Aaron Rodgers who gets that treatment
Perception is one thing, reality is another...

EDIT - I should've just highlighted your whole thing as that applies to the above to a 'T'

[polamalubeast]

Actually, that's not correct. Steelers went into the Pats* stadium with a man-to-man game plan. And, the first three times they implemented it, they were burned bad (https://twitter.com/gerrydulac/status/824004536771690496) because they didn't have the CB skill (issue was actually William Gay at the end of his career). So, they had to switch back to zone. Since then, we've played them twice. In the first game, Brady threw 1 TD and 1 INT. He 22/35 for 298 yards and 2 sacks. Only reason we lost that game was because of the catch rule that was changed after that. In the second game, Brady was 25/36 for 279 yards. I TD and 1 INT again.

To me, it looks as though we had a problem with CBs and then we moved to fix the problem and in the two years since then, we should have been 2-0 while keeping Brady pretty much under control.

Even if something does not work after 3 play, it's not a reason to give up!

I mean, not a reason to play the zone in the entire game when you know that the zone has never worked against Brady, whether the steelers or other teams .... I would have preferred that the coaches continue to try than to give up even if it is unlikely that the result would have been different .... It was too early to give up after 3 bad play!

[Born2Steel]

I love the sentiment, but what exactly do you think is special about the Steelers that makes things inevitable? How are we better than the Patriots as an organization moving forward? The coaching? The ownership? The uniforms?

Definitely the uniforms. That shouldn't even need to be said. But it's not "sentiment" at all. It's a fact. Go all the way back to the beginning of this current SB era and only the Steelers have remained relevant throughout that history. What makes me think it will continue seems to be your question in a nutshell. 5 decades of history is my answer in a nutshell. I don't predict future events like SB championships or AFC titles or division titles, but the Steelers will remain relevant and in the conversation for those feats into the future. I don't know what you mean by inevitable, it just simply is the way it is. Unless you have some new info like a re-alignment putting the Steelers in the WEST division where we have struggled.

:usa:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ben Roethlisberger has perfect response to Steelers' struggles vs. Patriots

By Nick Goss
December 11, 2018

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/ben-roethlisberger-has-perfect-response-steelers-struggles-vs-patriots

[polamalubeast]

Ben Roethlisberger has perfect response to Steelers' struggles vs. Patriots

By Nick Goss
December 11, 2018

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/ben-roethlisberger-has-perfect-response-steelers-struggles-vs-patriots

Eli Manning,Joe Flacco(Between 2009 to 2012) and even Peyton Manning(3-2 in the playoffs against Brady and 3-0 in his last 3 playoffs games)!

[Born2Steel]

In 11 trips to the playoffs since 2007(per benchmark of the article).

2007 - Lost to Giants in SB
2008 - Did not make playoffs
2009 - Lost to Ravens in WC round
2010 - Lost to Jets in division round
2011 - Lost to Giants in SB
2012 - Lost to Ravens in AFCC
2013 - Lost to Broncos in AFCC
2014 - Won SB vs Seattle(should have ran the ball)
2015 - Lost to Broncos in AFCC
2016 - Won SB in OT vs Falcons(1 first down and Falcons win)
2017 - Lost to Eagles in SB
2018 - Won vs Rams in SB(no Todd Gurley)

Not quite as dominant as we have been led to believe when you look at it. The Steelers are close and usually competitive.

Steelers have only met the Patriots once in the playoffs since 2007. In 2016 the Pats won 36-17. Seems to be a 0-1 playoff record in that timeline. EASILY remedied. HERE WE GO!

[polamalubeast]

In 11 trips to the playoffs since 2007(per benchmark of the article).

2007 - Lost to Giants in SB
2008 - Did not make playoffs
2009 - Lost to Ravens in WC round
2010 - Lost to Jets in division round
2011 - Lost to Giants in SB
2012 - Lost to Ravens in AFCC
2013 - Lost to Broncos in AFCC
2014 - Won SB vs Seattle(should have ran the ball)
2015 - Lost to Broncos in AFCC
2016 - Won SB in OT vs Falcons(1 first down and Falcons win)
2017 - Lost to Eagles in SB
2018 - Won vs Rams in SB(no Todd Gurley)

Not quite as dominant as we have been led to believe when you look at it. The Steelers are close and usually competitive.

Steelers have only met the Patriots once in the playoffs since 2007. In 2016 the Pats won 36-17. Seems to be a 0-1 playoff record in that timeline. EASILY remedied. HERE WE GO!

They have 9 AFC title games, including 8 in the last 8 years and 6 super bowl games in this period

I know, they have not always crushed their opponent in the playoffs and they have been lucky sometimes, but they have always been in the hunt.

[Born2Steel]

They have 9 AFC title games, including 8 in the last 8 years and 6 super bowl games in this period

I know, they have not always crushed their opponent in the playoffs and they have been lucky sometimes, but they have always been in the hunt.

What have they done vs the Steelers in the playoffs? 1-0! Is that dominance?

[polamalubeast]

What have they done vs the Steelers in the playoffs? 1-0! Is that dominance?

I know we played the Pats only once in the playoffs in the Tomlin era (it was a blowout) but before the last two games, his games against the Patriots(regular season and playoffs) were often tough to watch to start to finish for every steelers fan!

[polamalubeast]

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