Big Ben is better than...

[DesertSteel]

Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

A. Aikman
B. Bradshaw
C. Fouts
D. Moon
E. Staubach
F. Elway
G Young
H. Marino
I. Favre

[HollywoodSteel]

I think you might want to be more specific with the question. Is his career better than anyone with less rings, since that’s what players play for? Does that make his career is better than Marino’s? Yes. Is he a better QB than Marino ever was? Probably not.

Are you asking us to judge him and compare him using the criteria we might use for HOF selection, taking everything into account? Or just career numbers?

[DesertSteel]

I’m asking you to rank them using any criteria you choose, but with the attempt to be unbiased. I think most of these guys are in his category in the list of all-time greats. Personally, rings carry a lot of weight but at the same time I wouldn’t rank him above Marino.

[polamalubeast]

At least,A and D

Maybe B,C and F

[DesertSteel]

I’d rank him better than four guys on that list, with the possibility to be better than five.

[86WARD]

I’d rank him high on that list. Probably below Young, Marino and Favre...maybe below Bradshawbut probably not. MYbe higher than Yoong.. Based on numbers, Super Bowls and on field play...

[polamalubeast]

Maybe E too.

Only Favre and Marino are no doubt ahead of Ben.

[steelreserve]

He's a better QB than Aikman or Bradshaw but has had a worse career. He's a worse QB than Young or Marino but has had a more successful career. Elway, Staubach, and Favre are in the same ballpark overall, but I'd give the ability edge to Elway and Favre over Ben, and Ben the edge over Staubach. The others are no contest.

[AtlantaDan]

I would say Ben is better than Aikman (played behind one of the all time great O-lines along while having Emmitt Smith & Michael Irvin) + Warren Moon

Early career Ben better than early career Bradshaw - but once the light went on for Bradshaw late in the 1974 season his skill set would have shredded modern defenses

Those are the only ones for me where Ben is better

Fouts has no rings but Air Coryell was a breakout offense and Fouts had to play with Chargers defenses after 1979 (IMO that 79 Chargers team would have beaten the Steelers in the playoffs if they had not choked in the playoffs against the Oilers) that make Keith Butler's crews look like the 85 Bears

[polamalubeast]

I would say Ben is better than Aikman (played behind one of the all time great O-lines along while having Emmitt Smith & Michael Irvin) + Warren Moon

Early career Ben better than early career Bradshaw - but once the light went on for Bradshaw late in the 1974 season his skill set would have shredded modern defenses

Those are the only ones for me where Ben is better

Fouts has no rings but Air Coryell was a breakout offense and Fouts had to play with Chargers defenses after 1979 (IMO that 79 Chargers team would have beaten the Steelers in the playoffs if they had not choked in the playoffs against the Oilers) that make Keith Butler's crews look like the 85 Bears

Maybe for 1979, but at the same time, Fouts was the reason why the chargers had lost!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/197912290sdg.htm

He was pathetic at the worst possible time!..One of the worst performances by a HOF QB in a close playoffs loss since 1978 in the NFL .... Maybe even the worst especially with the context!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ben could have been on the top of that list if he had only studied more film and been a better leader like Peyton...

[polamalubeast]

Ben could have been on the top of that list if he had only studied more film and been a better leader like Peyton...

Seriously, I would have loved to see Ben with a great offensive coach.

His best offensive coach that Ben had was Ken Whisenhunt in his first 3 years .... Very good OC, but he's not Sean Payton.

[Mojouw]

Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

A. Aikman
B. Bradshaw
C. Fouts
D. Moon
E. Staubach
F. Elway
G Young
H. Marino
I. Favre
Moon, Elway, Young, Marino, and Favre were better. Not maybe by a great deal, but better. Bradshaw, Fouts, and Staubach are too hard for me to compare, because I have really only seen highlights and heard the tales.

Ben is better than Aikman. Not by a lot, but his improvisation ekes out a lead.

[AtlantaDan]

Seriously, I would have loved to see Ben with a great offensive coach.

His best offensive coach that Ben had was Ken Whisenhunt in his first 3 years .... Very good OC, but he's not Sean Payton.

But QB whisperer Bruce Arians made Peyton and Ben :behindsofa:

[polamalubeast]

But QB whisperer Bruce Arians made Peyton and Ben :behindsofa:

I had no problem with Arians, but he was far to be perfect

[st33lersguy]

I had no problem with Arians, but he was far to be perfect

Arians was a great developer of qbs, as a playcaller, he failed

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

A. Aikman
B. Bradshaw
C. Fouts
D. Moon
E. Staubach
F. Elway
G Young
H. Marino
I. Favre
Elway
Marino
Favre
Young
Bradshaw
Staubach
Roethlisberger
Aikman
Moon
Fouts

That's what I got. Fouts, great numbers, product of Air Coryell, no rings and not a guy I say that I want over any of those other guys in the clutch drive at the end of a game. Aikman, good QB, but again behind a great O line and all time RB and good defense put up some OK passing numbers. Moon is close as he had performance, resolve, longevity and did well at several stops, but was saddled by that lousy Mouse Davis offense and dysfunctional team that could never be a championship team.

[Fire Goodell]

Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

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Elway
Marino
Favre
Young
Bradshaw
Staubach
Roethlisberger
Aikman
Moon
Fouts

That's what I got. Fouts, great numbers, product of Air Coryell, no rings and not a guy I say that I want over any of those other guys in the clutch drive at the end of a game. Aikman, good QB, but again behind a great O line and all time RB and good defense put up some OK passing numbers. Moon is close as he had performance, resolve, longevity and did well at several stops, but was saddled by that lousy Mouse Davis offense and dysfunctional team that could never be a championship team.

The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.

[43Hitman]

Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

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The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.

That game brings back a vivid memory of mine from my twenties. I lived in Louisiana at the time and a friend of mine was a huge Oilers fan, I watched that game with him and then watched him put his foot through the TV. :lol: He looked at me and said "F@#& THE STEELERS" GET OUT! I said, but we weren't even playing with a smirk on my face. Best day ever as a rival fan hanging with a bud.

[polamalubeast]

Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

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The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.

The Bills had like scored 4 TD in 6 minutes during the 3rd quarter to put the game 35-31 .... It was a crazy comeback and a crazy choke for the Houston Oilers....The only reason this is not the biggest choke in NFL history is because of the Atlanta Falcons in 2016....

The Oilers had 4 TDs in 4 drives in the first half in offense and after a pick 6 it was 35-3, but when it was 35-24, the oilers only had one punt with 0 turnover in 5 drives in this game, so the Oilers had been almost perfect in their first 5 drive and it was only 35-24 and then the team continued to collapse ... The blame goes mainly to the defense and after the special team to not recover the onside kick.

The oilers with Moon had a major problem to protect their lead .... in 1992, in the first year of Bill Cowher,the steelers made 2 huge comebacks against them and they had some others collapse, but of course against the Bills were the icing on the cake but in their playoffs game in Denver the year before, the oilers also had a huge lead before their collapse (21-6 I think) and in 1993 it was obvious that against Joe Montana and the Chiefs, the Oilers were still going to lose the lead once again in a playoff game and that was still the case

[st33lersguy]

Better than Fouts and Moon for sure. Definitely behind Favre, Marino and Elway. I'd put Bradshaw above Ben too considering Bradshaw not just won but was clutch in 4 Super Bowls. That leaves Aikman, Staubach, and Young (tremendous company to be comparable to). I'd put Ben above Aikman but not by a lot, though I can't help Aikman has more Super Bowls because of Neil O Donnell. I'd put Staubach above Ben, super clutch and was the driving force behind those Cowboys teams. I'd also put Young above Ben too, insane offensive numbers, multiple time MVP, would have won multiple SBs as a starter were it not for Montana starting in front of him and buzzsaws in the Cowboys and Packers in the 90s.

[DesertSteel]

Moon, Elway, Young, Marino, and Favre were better. Not maybe by a great deal, but better. Bradshaw, Fouts, and Staubach are too hard for me to compare, because I have really only seen highlights and heard the tales.

Ben is better than Aikman. Not by a lot, but his improvisation ekes out a lead.
Moon was very underrated, especially since several years were wasted in the CFL because he was black.

[steelreserve]

Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

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The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.

Man, there was this one CB on the Oilers named Jackson who was in the picture on like EVERY big play for Buffalo with some kind of coverage fail. I was watching the game with my dad, and to this day, whenever someone really fucks up in a televised sporting event, he'll say "Jackson - fired!" and I know exactly what he is talking about.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

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The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.

The Run N' Shoot offense :
-was great outside of the 2 yard line
-wasn't designed to be able to run the football and close out games
-was succeptable to tough games in poor weather due to being a passing oriented offense.

The Steelers comeback from 17 points down vs the Browns in the 2002 Wildcard round was similar in that Cleveland had no running game and kept giving the football back in the same way the Oilers did to the Bills. Being a 1 dimensional offense never is a good thing.

[hawaiiansteeler]

The Steelers comeback from 17 points down vs the Browns in the 2002 Wildcard round was similar in that Cleveland had no running game and kept giving the football back in the same way the Oilers did to the Bills. Being a 1 dimensional offense never is a good thing.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/9c/9c582ec55e72cc95c2fb8f06490679f9c14383ec4ace712369 12e53621460f79.jpg

[Mach1]

Ben could have been on the top of that list if he had only studied more film and been a better leader like Peyton...

Ben would be on the top of that list if tomlin weren't an average coach... :couch:

[86WARD]

Elway may be the most overrated QB of All-Time...lol

[Steeldude]

I suppose Moon and possibly Fouts.

Definite no's are Marino, Staubach, Bradshaw, Favre, Young

[steelreserve]

Elway may be the most overrated QB of All-Time...lol

Tom Brady begs to differ

[Six Rings]

Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

A. Aikman
B. Bradshaw
C. Fouts
D. Moon
E. Staubach
F. Elway
G Young
H. Marino
I. Favre


Aikman was a very good QB, but hardly great. See his stats, you'll see.

Bradshaw was a great big game QB, but overall too inconsistent.

Fouts was a pure passer type but he team didn't go anywhere. You could say the same for Moon.

I'd say Ben is better than those four. If he can throw another 50 TD's and win a championship vs anyone on the list.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm


^^^ Any questions?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Aikman was a very good QB, but hardly great. See his stats, you'll see.

Bradshaw was a great big game QB, but overall too inconsistent.

Fouts was a pure passer type but he team didn't go anywhere. You could say the same for Moon.

I'd say Ben is better than those four. If he can throw another 50 TD's and win a championship vs anyone on the list.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm


^^^ Any questions?

Yes, I agree. If you say to me there is a big game, who do you want to play? Aikman, Ben, Fouts, Bradshaw? I pick Bradshaw over the other 3 and Ben over the remaining 2. Kind of tough to call Bradshaw inconsistent relative to Ben, when we can look at the fact that Ben has never won in Oakland in his career and those teams have been crap, among other big game INT debacles like Jacksonville.

Different eras to compare, but I still take Bradshaw over Ben.

[polamalubeast]

I saw a very surprising stats that Bradshaw was only 40-39 in his career on the road..Ben is 65-42-1 ... Bradshaw was on the other hand incredible at home .... 67-12 vs 79- 27 for Ben!

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html?type=reg&alltime=1&sort=w

We can compare Ben and Bradshaw for a long time, but it's very hard because of the different eras.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I saw a very surprising stats that Bradshaw was only 40-39 in his career on the road..Ben is 65-42-1 ... Bradshaw was on the other hand incredible at home .... 67-12 vs 79- 27 for Ben!

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html?type=reg&alltime=1&sort=w

We can compare Ben and Bradshaw for a long time, but it's very hard because of the different eras.

I believe that there might have been 52 other guys on the teams that were involved in those records....so IMO its difficult to just look at a W-L stat to compare 2 individuals in games that close to 100 guys participated in.

[GoSlash27]

Who's the best on that list for our needs, tho'? AFCN ball in all types of weather? Can take punishment and still perform? Can keep a play alive after it's fallen apart? Dan Fouts and Brett Favre for sure. Bradshaw took a lot of abuse, but didn't dust himself off afterwards. Moon... Relied on his legs too much and not impressive in bad weather.
The rest of 'em... They were fine (even great) QBs in their situation, but I don't imagine them having the same success in Pittsburgh.

I'd place Big Ben in the top 3 on this list.

[Mojouw]

Moon was very underrated, especially since several years were wasted in the CFL because he was black.

Agreed. This thread is severely underrating Moon because of the Oilers offense and lack of signature big games. But as a passer, the guy was simply outstanding. If his whole career was in the NFL he likely would've held most passing records when he retired.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Who's the best on that list for our needs, tho'? AFCN ball in all types of weather? Can take punishment and still perform? Can keep a play alive after it's fallen apart? Dan Fouts and Brett Favre for sure. Bradshaw took a lot of abuse, but didn't dust himself off afterwards. Moon... Relied on his legs too much and not impressive in bad weather.
The rest of 'em... They were fine (even great) QBs in their situation, but I don't imagine them having the same success in Pittsburgh.

I'd place Big Ben in the top 3 on this list.

Are you sure you are not confusing Warren Moon with Randall Cunningham?

Moon had 1,736 rushing yards in 17 NFL seasons. The most he ever had was 268 in a single season. I would not say that Moon relied on his legs too much. I actually think Moon is a better pure passer than Ben, but Ben made more big plays by improvising and keeping plays alive.

[GoSlash27]

Are you sure you are not confusing Warren Moon with Randall Cunningham?

It's been a long time and I'm getting up there in age, but I'm pretty sure I'm talking about Warren Moon. He wasn't a big "dual threat" QB, but he always ran for 3-5 whenever plays broke down. That's how we usually beat him; hit him a few times and hobble him so he couldn't run, and force him to beat us with his arm.

[Born2Steel]

Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

A. Aikman
B. Bradshaw
C. Fouts
D. Moon
E. Staubach
F. Elway
G Young
H. Marino
I. Favre

All of the above except Aikman and Bradshaw. I think Elway is a good parallel as is Young. Ben has definitely had a better career than the others listed. What Marino could have been as a steeler...


Please understand I have much respect for all the names on this list.

[polamalubeast]

Who are your top 5 QB of all-time in the super bowl era?

For me, my top 3 is (no order) Peyton, Montana and Brady and after, I'm less sure ... I'll put Marino 4th and after I have no idea.Maybe it would have been Brett Favre if his 2000s would have been better His peak in the 1990s was unbelievable, but the loss of Mike Holmgren hurt Favre, since Mike Sherman was far to be a good coach(and GM) early in the 2000s...Maybe Bradshaw,Staubach,Young or Elway?

[Six Rings]

Yes, I agree. If you say to me there is a big game, who do you want to play? Aikman, Ben, Fouts, Bradshaw? I pick Bradshaw over the other 3 and Ben over the remaining 2. Kind of tough to call Bradshaw inconsistent relative to Ben, when we can look at the fact that Ben has never won in Oakland in his career and those teams have been crap, among other big game INT debacles like Jacksonville.

Different eras to compare, but I still take Bradshaw over Ben.

Ben is a better QB. Even Terry knows that. Bradshaw made too many mistakes. His defense bailed him out on many of those days. Different eras.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Ben is a better QB. Even Terry knows that. Bradshaw made too many mistakes. His defense bailed him out on many of those days. Different eras.

Yes, different eras indeed. In fact, the Bradshaw era was so run oriented that Bradshaw was the first QB to throw for 300 yards in a Super Bowl and had the first 2 Super Bowl games with 300+ yards of passing. He also completed 56.3% of passes in the Super Bowls of 20+ yards, showing that he was the ultimate deep ball passer in Super Bowl history. The average of the other QB's that played is completing 27.4%. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14692898/best-qb-super-bowl-history-nfl

Below are the statistical average comparisons for Terry and Ben in their respective Super Bowls and part of the reason I rank Bradshaw over Ben:

Bradshaw 58.3% completion rate......233.0 YPG.....9TD..4INT.....2 Super Bowl MVP
Roethilisberger 60.4% completion rate......214.0 YPG....3TD..5INT......0 MVP

[teegre]

Warren Moon threw the most beautiful passes. Ever.

Dan Marino is the best QB to ever play. Rings be damned. The dude was putting up passing numbers that are just now being broken (only after insane rule changes). In today’s NFL, he’d routinely have 8,000 yards and 40 TDs.

Ben does stuff (escapes tackles) like no other QB I’ve ever seen. I watch closely every snap single of his, because I never know when I’ll see a “HOLY CRAP!!!” moment.

[Hawkman]

Warren Moon threw the most beautiful passes. Ever.

Dan Marino is the best QB to ever play. Rings be damned. The dude was putting up passing numbers that are just now being broken (only after insane rule changes). In today’s NFL, he’d routinely have 8,000 yards and 40 TDs.

Ben does stuff (escapes tackles) like no other QB I’ve ever seen. I watch closely every snap single of his, because I never know when I’ll see a “HOLY CRAP!!!” moment.

I’m still looking for the one where Ben had two defenders hanging on him, and threw a great spiral 40+ yards down field to Ward......oh....that happened a lot.:rofl2:

[DesertSteel]

Yes, different eras indeed. In fact, the Bradshaw era was so run oriented that Bradshaw was the first QB to throw for 300 yards in a Super Bowl and had the first 2 Super Bowl games with 300+ yards of passing. He also completed 56.3% of passes in the Super Bowls of 20+ yards, showing that he was the ultimate deep ball passer in Super Bowl history. The average of the other QB's that played is completing 27.4%. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14692898/best-qb-super-bowl-history-nfl

Below are the statistical average comparisons for Terry and Ben in their respective Super Bowls and part of the reason I rank Bradshaw over Ben:

Bradshaw 58.3% completion rate......233.0 YPG.....9TD..4INT.....2 Super Bowl MVP
Roethilisberger 60.4% completion rate......214.0 YPG....3TD..5INT......0 MVP
Stick Marino in between and it would've been unrivaled!

[polamalubeast]

Warren Moon threw the most beautiful passes. Ever.

Dan Marino is the best QB to ever play. Rings be damned. The dude was putting up passing numbers that are just now being broken (only after insane rule changes). In today’s NFL, he’d routinely have 8,000 yards and 40 TDs.

Ben does stuff (escapes tackles) like no other QB I’ve ever seen. I watch closely every snap single of his, because I never know when I’ll see a “HOLY CRAP!!!” moment.

Dan Marino's 1984 season was the best ever season for a QB in the super bowl era and it's not even close.

It took 20 years for a player to break the record for the TD pass in a season and 27 years before a player broke his record for the yards .... Before that nobody was close to beating his two record(expect for Drew Brees in 2008 for the yards) .... Before the 2004 season, only one other player had had at least 40 TDs in one season (it was Kurt Warner in 1999 with 41) and no other player had 5000 yards.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Stick Marino in between and it would've been unrivaled!

sorry, the Steelers don't draft potheads.

oh wait...

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/8e/c7/68/8ec768ce783c5d9d6b2c2448db6dcf3f--pittsburgh-steelers-weed.jpg

[chezman53]

He is also leads QBs in assaulting females in Bathrooms

[fansince'76]

Say goodnight, dickhead...

[Craic]

Yes, different eras indeed. In fact, the Bradshaw era was so run oriented that Bradshaw was the first QB to throw for 300 yards in a Super Bowl and had the first 2 Super Bowl games with 300+ yards of passing. He also completed 56.3% of passes in the Super Bowls of 20+ yards, showing that he was the ultimate deep ball passer in Super Bowl history. The average of the other QB's that played is completing 27.4%. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14692898/best-qb-super-bowl-history-nfl

Below are the statistical average comparisons for Terry and Ben in their respective Super Bowls and part of the reason I rank Bradshaw over Ben:

Bradshaw 58.3% completion rate......233.0 YPG.....9TD..4INT.....2 Super Bowl MVP
Roethilisberger 60.4% completion rate......214.0 YPG....3TD..5INT......0 MVP
Give me Ben over Bradshaw any time in the season. Give me either in the playoffs, and give me Bradshaw over Ben every time in the SB.

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Yes, different eras indeed. In fact, the Bradshaw era was so run oriented that Bradshaw was the first QB to throw for 300 yards in a Super Bowl and had the first 2 Super Bowl games with 300+ yards of passing. He also completed 56.3% of passes in the Super Bowls of 20+ yards, showing that he was the ultimate deep ball passer in Super Bowl history. The average of the other QB's that played is completing 27.4%. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14692898/best-qb-super-bowl-history-nfl

Below are the statistical average comparisons for Terry and Ben in their respective Super Bowls and part of the reason I rank Bradshaw over Ben:

Bradshaw 58.3% completion rate......233.0 YPG.....9TD..4INT.....2 Super Bowl MVP
Roethilisberger 60.4% completion rate......214.0 YPG....3TD..5INT......0 MVP
Give me Ben over Bradshaw any time in the season. Give me either in the playoffs, and give me Bradshaw over Ben every time in the SB.

[polamalubeast]

Give me Ben over Bradshaw any time in the season. Give me either in the playoffs, and give me Bradshaw over Ben every time in the SB.

Good point.

I would love to see Ben in another SB to see how he would perform....

[DesertSteel]

Good point.

I would love to see Ben in another SB to see how he would perform....
He was pretty good in the last one they won...