Thoughts on the 2019 defense headng into the preseason.

[Born2Steel]

What do you guys make of the Steelers defensive personnel as it looks today?

A few veterans with Heyward(9), Tuitt(6), VW(7), Haden(10), Barron(8), Alualu(10)

Some journeymen in Dupree(5), Davis(4), Nelson(5), McCullers(6), Matakevich(4), Hargrave(4), Burns(4), Chickillo(5)

The rest of the defense is 3 years or less. (I could have missed somebody in the veteran or journeyman list)

Anyway that list looks to me like 4, possibly 5, veteran starters, and 4 journeyman starters.(Barring injuries)

I hope Edmunds, Bush, and Watt start for 2019. This gives this defense a good mix of veterans, journeymen, rookies(3 yrs or less), and the depth quality is improving, at least as of today. In fact, if Burns can get back to where he was in last year's TC covering AB, the addition(and hope) of Layne, playing with CBs like Haden and Nelson, this defense has the 'potential' to be VERY good this season.

Say all the negatives you want to about Butler but his defense was top 10 before the Shazier injury. This defense may get it back to where it belongs. I have big hopes for this defense going forward.

[BlackAndGold]

I see this being a top 10 unit. If Bush provides the coverage and speed we've been missing in the middle of the defense they could be lethal, especially if they continue getting after the QB like they have been in the past two seasons which was league leading.

[polamalubeast]

For the ranking, the stats have never been a problem for the steelers, since some game they will inflate their stats like sacks, yards allowed or even PPG ..... But how they will perform when they will have a good test? .. That's the question.

[Rotorhead]

I hope Edmunds, Bush, and Watt start for 2019

Sorry, I stopped reading here, of course Watt will start . . .

[Edman]

Considering the Steelers Offense is severely gimped with the loss of Bell and especially AB as well as a pretty solid TE in James, combined with an older Ben, the Offense will not match the high Numbers of 2014-2018. In fact, I can see the Offense regressing big time.

So with the Team Balance reset back to manageable, theoretically, the Defense should step up to be a better unit. That's theoretically. Even with Ryan Shazier, the Defense never rose to the level it needed to be. They didn't turn the ball over all that much. Keith Butler is still the DC, and our corners are still...eh. The failure of Burns was a major blow. We can't hide behind Haden forever. If Artie Burns even rises to the realm of decent, the Steelers may have a chance.

So I expect the Defense to be mediocre, combined with a regressed Offense, will lead to a mediocre season.

[GBMelBlount]

Considering the Steelers Offense is severely gimped with the loss of Bell and especially AB as well as a pretty solid TE in James, combined with an older Ben, the Offense will not match the high Numbers of 2014-2018.

In fact, I can see the Offense regressing big time.

So with the Team Balance reset back to manageable, theoretically, the Defense should step up to be a better unit. That's theoretically. Even with Ryan Shazier, the Defense never rose to the level it needed to be. They didn't turn the ball over all that much. Keith Butler is still the DC, and our corners are still...eh. The failure of Burns was a major blow. We can't hide behind Haden forever. If Artie Burns even rises to the realm of decent, the Steelers may have a chance.

So I expect the Defense to be mediocre, combined with a regressed Offense, will lead to a mediocre season.

I am not worried on offense. Ben is always competitive with whatever he has.

If our defensive is better this year, our team will be better.

[st33lersguy]

Keith Butler is still here despite 4 seasons worth of evidence that point to the fact that he has no business running an NFL defense so the defense will continue to be mediocre and get scorched in the biggest games of the season

[hawaiiansteeler]

Keith Butler is still here despite 4 seasons worth of evidence that point to the fact that he has no business running an NFL defense so the defense will continue to be mediocre and get scorched in the biggest games of the season

which LB will be covering the other team's top WR this season?

[RunNGun]

What do you guys make of the Steelers defensive personnel as it looks today?

A few veterans with Heyward(9), Tuitt(6), VW(7), Haden(10), Barron(8), Alualu(10)

Some journeymen in Dupree(5), Davis(4), Nelson(5), McCullers(6), Matakevich(4), Hargrave(4), Burns(4), Chickillo(5)

The rest of the defense is 3 years or less. (I could have missed somebody in the veteran or journeyman list)

Anyway that list looks to me like 4, possibly 5, veteran starters, and 4 journeyman starters.(Barring injuries)

I hope Edmunds, Bush, and Watt start for 2019. This gives this defense a good mix of veterans, journeymen, rookies(3 yrs or less), and the depth quality is improving, at least as of today. In fact, if Burns can get back to where he was in last year's TC covering AB, the addition(and hope) of Layne, playing with CBs like Haden and Nelson, this defense has the 'potential' to be VERY good this season.

Say all the negatives you want to about Butler but his defense was top 10 before the Shazier injury. This defense may get it back to where it belongs. I have big hopes for this defense going forward.

I think you're confused with what a journeyman is.

[tube517]

I think you're confused with what a journeyman is.

Change "journeyman" to "mediocre", take Hargrave out of that list.


Bush, Barron, Nelson should help. Let's see if there is a clusterf*** on opening night where players are looking around and pointing at who is out of place on several plays like the 2015 game. THat will be a very bad sign.

[Born2Steel]

I think you're confused with what a journeyman is.

Not sure if this jab is for me or for the players on the list. Journeyman players are defined as reliable but not outstanding. You know the term ‘role players’? Grammatical objections aside, anything to add to the conversation about how you see the 2019 defense?

I see the glass as half full always. I choose to stay positive partly because I have watched too many ‘worst to first’ and ‘first to worst’ seasons across sports to dwell too long in the past or on past mistakes. And partly because that is how I choose to go through my life on a bigger scale. There is nothing to point to and say this proves the defense will be good or not. I just wanted a conversation on this new look defense and get some thoughts from you guys on it.

[tube517]

Not sure if this jab is for me or for the players on the list. Journeyman players are defined as reliable but not outstanding. You know the term ‘role players’? Grammatical objections aside, anything to add to the conversation about how you see the 2019 defense?

I see the glass as half full always. I choose to stay positive partly because I have watched too many ‘worst to first’ and ‘first to worst’ seasons across sports to dwell too long in the past or on past mistakes. And partly because that is how I choose to go through my life on a bigger scale. There is nothing to point to and say this proves the defense will be good or not. I just wanted a conversation on this new look defense and get some thoughts from you guys on it.

RunNGun wasn't jabbing you.

Journeyman usually means a player that bounces around from team to team.

A perfect example is Ryan Fitzpatrick. 8 teams.

Or this guy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._T._O%27Sullivan


EDIT: I didn't mean to speak for RunNGun but I had the exact thought as RunNGun's post

[Born2Steel]

RunNGun wasn't jabbing you.

Journeyman usually means a player that bounces around from team to team.

A perfect example is Ryan Fitzpatrick. 8 teams.

Or this guy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._T._O%27Sullivan

That’s good info.

[86WARD]

Why wouldn’t Watt start?

[Born2Steel]

Why wouldn’t Watt start?

He should start. And I hope he does.

[86WARD]

He will start. The only reason he wouldn’t is because of injury. No player on the roster or in free agency is going to keep Watt from starting. Even if they paid top dollar for whatever OLB you want to name, Watt would still be starting.

[Born2Steel]

He will start. The only reason he wouldn’t is because of injury. No player on the roster or in free agency is going to keep Watt from starting. Even if they paid top dollar for whatever OLB you want to name, Watt would still be starting.

Are Edmunds and/or Bush the cemented starters? I hope so with them as well. I expect Watt to be the opening day starter. As you point out if there is an injury the depth behind him is unproven at best. We know Chickillo is not a starter. Ola, Adams, and rookie Smith are all unproven and mostly unknown. So it is very much my hope Watt is starting for us this season.

[DesertSteel]

I see this being a top 10 unit. If Bush provides the coverage and speed we've been missing in the middle of the defense they could be lethal, especially if they continue getting after the QB like they have been in the past two seasons which was league leading.
It was top 10 last year (6 IIRC).

I think Bush will be the difference maker and Nelson/Layne will help the secondary. TJ also takes another step to becoming JJ-like.

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So it is very much my hope Watt is starting for us this season.
Is there any reason why Watt wouldn't start? Something I don't know? He's started for two years and is now their best defensive player...

[polamalubeast]

It was top 10 last year (6 IIRC).

I think Bush will be the difference maker and Nelson/Layne will help the secondary. TJ also takes another step to becoming JJ-like.


But they were 16th in points allowed and bottom 5 in turnovers.

For this year, like every year, I hope they will be better, not just on the stats since the stats have never been the problem since the steelers often inflates their stats on some games like sacks or other things, but the 'important is how they will do when they face an offense that can give a good test.

I do not want to hear to be patient with this defense because there has new players or a lot of young players in this defense, it's been several years I hear that before each seasons and we still have the same results years after years.A defense that we can not trust in an big position

[Hound]

The defense is now equipped to play multiple sub packages on defense. The speed in the middle as well as the depth has dramatically improved the Steelers defense. Davis now being in his second year at FS should improve or at least be equal to what he was last year. There are some unknowns on the defense but it’s quicker and faster now than what it was last year. I’m curious to see who plays dime LB or do the roll with Bush and Barron.

[Born2Steel]

It was top 10 last year (6 IIRC).

I think Bush will be the difference maker and Nelson/Layne will help the secondary. TJ also takes another step to becoming JJ-like.

- - - Updated - - -


Is there any reason why Watt wouldn't start? Something I don't know? He's started for two years and is now their best defensive player...

1. Not that I know of.
2. I don’t know the answer to that.
3. Definitely best OLB.

[Rotorhead]

Remember, 2 years ago we were in all the Super Bowl talk, last year we “regressed” . . . The difference between those 2 years for us? Our kicker made the FG’s 2 years ago and didn’t last year.

[polamalubeast]

Remember, 2 years ago we were in all the Super Bowl talk, last year we “regressed” . . . The difference between those 2 years for us? Our kicker made the FG’s 2 years ago and didn’t last year.

The steelers were 8-2 in one score game in 2017....It was just a matter of time before the steelers started to lose some close game.

The 6 playoffs team in the AFC had a better points differentiel than the steelers, so the steelers deserved to watch the playoffs at home .... The close games can not always go to one side.

[Born2Steel]

The steelers were 8-2 in one score game in 2017....It was just a matter of time before the steelers started to lose some close game.

The 6 playoffs team in the AFC had a better points differentiel than the steelers, so the steelers deserved to watch the playoffs at home .... The close games can not always go to one side.

Which brings us back around to the 2019 defense. Consider the return starters from last year’s defense plus adding Bush and Nelson. That consistency this season with those 2 upgrades CAN make a huge impact on that “point differential”. There is a focus on getting more turnovers by the defense. Defense giving up yards is a useless stat. The yards grinded out between the 20s shouldn’t be a measuring stick for a defense. Red zone defense, turnovers, QB sacks and hurries, and opponent 3 and outs. These mean much more in the success of a defense.

[polamalubeast]

Which brings us back around to the 2019 defense. Consider the return starters from last year’s defense plus adding Bush and Nelson. That consistency this season with those 2 upgrades CAN make a huge impact on that “point differential”. There is a focus on getting more turnovers by the defense. Defense giving up yards is a useless stat. The yards grinded out between the 20s shouldn’t be a measuring stick for a defense. Red zone defense, turnovers, QB sacks and hurries, and opponent 3 and outs. These mean much more in the success of a defense.

I agree

We will be able to know very early the value of our defense, since our first 2 games are against Brady in Foxboro and the Seahawks with Russell Wilson ... Even the week 3 against the 49ers could be a test if they are healthy.

[GBMelBlount]

The steelers were 8-2 in one score game in 2017....It was just a matter of time before the steelers started to lose some close game.

The 6 playoffs team in the AFC had a better points differentiel than the steelers, so the steelers deserved to watch the playoffs at home .... The close games can not always go to one side.

Good teams figure out a way to win close games.

The 2018 close game losses (especially 4th quarter) were due to a terrible defense that caved in the 4Q imo.

[polamalubeast]

Good teams figure out a way to win close games.

The 2018 close game losses (especially 4th quarter) were due to a terrible defense that caved in the 4Q imo.

Yes, but you have to win some blowout game on occasion especially against bad teams .... It's hard to win all the time the coin-toss game.

[steel striker]

I think the defense on paper could be pretty good and, I think the offense will be fine I do. I know there a few in here that say without AB & Bell all is lost but, Bell did not play last year Conner did very well. Then when it comes to Ben there a few folks on here that think he is done but, not me I think he has plenty in the tank. Yes his INT's were high last year as a result trying to force the ball to AB. Still Ben threw for over 5000 yards and, 34 TD's and, those are great numbers. If Boswell can't get his stuff together I say the Steelers back in the chase for the Super bowl.

[Fire Goodell]

was excited about barron and even more excited about devin bush.

curious to see what happens with marcus allen, tomlin hinted that he was putting on weight and could be also tried at linebacker. Seems like we might have a logjam at mack ILB, but better than having absolutely nothing or slow dirty red

taking a wait and see approach to nelson. he has a knack for turnovers but also has gotten burnt badly in the past.

Safety is the position that bothers me the most right now. Davis and Edmunds are pretty good so far. Who's behind them? Nobody? One of our dimebackers? If so that's troubling, hope our starters stay healthy

expecting edmunds to take a step forward this year. expecting the same from dupree and watt. Defense has more depth overall than last year and no longer a hole at ILB, it will be better, good enough to compete in the postseason.

[Six Rings]

What do you guys make of the Steelers defensive personnel as it looks today?

A few veterans with Heyward(9), Tuitt(6), VW(7), Haden(10), Barron(8), Alualu(10)

Some journeymen in Dupree(5), Davis(4), Nelson(5), McCullers(6), Matakevich(4), Hargrave(4), Burns(4), Chickillo(5)

The rest of the defense is 3 years or less. (I could have missed somebody in the veteran or journeyman list)

Anyway that list looks to me like 4, possibly 5, veteran starters, and 4 journeyman starters.(Barring injuries)

I hope Edmunds, Bush, and Watt start for 2019. This gives this defense a good mix of veterans, journeymen, rookies(3 yrs or less), and the depth quality is improving, at least as of today. In fact, if Burns can get back to where he was in last year's TC covering AB, the addition(and hope) of Layne, playing with CBs like Haden and Nelson, this defense has the 'potential' to be VERY good this season.

Say all the negatives you want to about Butler but his defense was top 10 before the Shazier injury. This defense may get it back to where it belongs. I have big hopes for this defense going forward.

Do you really want to know?


The Steelers are rated #1 in the NFL on defense in terms of penalty yards per game at 73.13 yards per game. This is too much and needs to change. Too often do the Steelers do something stupid to give our opponents 2nd and 3rd chances to sustain a drive that leads to points. The Steelers rated 16th overall in points allowed.


Run Defense. The numbers look good, but part of that is because our offense puts pressure on other teams to throw it a lot. We really don't have a two-gap nose tackle, cut back runners always kill us, and the tackling has been spootly partualiry at the safety position. So the Run defense is solid but hardly special.


Pass defense. Since Shazier went down the Steelers lost their coverage over the middle. For whatever reason, the Steelers have been historically weak covering the Tight end. Rookie Bush has big shoes to fill, but the problem here was so massive, he's bound to be an early upgrade. The only part of our defense which I satisfied with is the pass rush. That's it. It's excellent. What's not excellent is turnovers. None of our DB's really product interceptions. If the Steelers defense can come close to matching Ben's interception throw total to incerptions forced, we will be a very hard team to beat. Speed at corner is weak. And because of that we don't play off or on man very well.


Coaching. Keith Butler is no Dick Lebeau. Outside of Watt who was born ready, the players have not developed here, especially at defensive back. The Steelers 2 defensive lineman goal line formation is a real head-scratcher, it only prevents the field goals, and gives up the touchdown. This is a problem that can't be fixed. Tomlin has a rep for being good defensive coach and DB coach. I never saw it. He was a cover 2 guy under Dungy when that type of defense worked. The NFL demands you play a lot of nickel and dime defense.


Special teams. A punter is part of the defense, and Berry is a bottom 1/3 type of NFL punter. His hang time and ability to flip the field are weak. He is good at dropping them inside the 20, but when the team is backed up, he often costs us.


Depth: It's good at DL, thin elsewhere, especially at OLB, S, and CB. Why the Steelers did not draft a safety with all the picks we had is a head-scratcher.


Conclusion. If the defense could commit fewer penalty yards, and force say 5 more turnovers than they did last season, this is a top ten type of defense. The development of young players like Edumunds who was just okay last season, and rookies Bush and Layne are important. I think we have a top 7-15 type of NFL defense, which is to say a bit better than average, but none of that really means much. The better QB's rip us up, forcing the offense to play a near mistake-free type of game of beat them. We just don't have the coverage people, and if the pass rush isn't there, we are meat defensively speaking.

[polamalubeast]

1131172884091670531

[Born2Steel]

Break out the bubble wrap.

[86WARD]

Still lack of pass rush from OLBs and still issues at Safety positions. Middle of the defense and up front seems good but one injury to Hayward or Tuitt and they are screwed. Huge lack of depth...

[Mojouw]

Who causes turnovers? If they can be about +8 or more, they make playoffs.

[polamalubeast]

Who causes turnovers? If they can be about +8 or more, they make playoffs.

Our defense just needs to learn to catch the Ball!

1130916966506598401

Our defense was in the middle in the league for the turnovers in 2016 and 2017 with 22 and 23 and 3rd in 2015 with 30 ..... I do not think the steelers are going to be bottom 5 in turnovers again.

[Mojouw]

Our defense just needs to learn to catch the Ball!

1130916966506598401

Our defense was in the middle in the league for the turnovers in 2016 and 2017 with 22 and 23 and 3rd in 2015 with 30 ..... I do not think the steelers are going to be bottom 5 in turnovers again.

Hope you are right. Turnover +/- is just so closely tied to playoff success. Last several SB participants and winners were all +6 or more in this stat. Extend it to playoff participants, and it is even stronger.

In my opinion, this stat is one of the most important stats for predicting and explaining wins and losses in the NFL. Get over about +6 or so, and you will be a playoff team more seasons than not. Get double digits in the + column, you are going on a deep playoff run.

[polamalubeast]

Hope you are right. Turnover +/- is just so closely tied to playoff success. Last several SB participants and winners were all +6 or more in this stat. Extend it to playoff participants, and it is even stronger.

In my opinion, this stat is one of the most important stats for predicting and explaining wins and losses in the NFL. Get over about +6 or so, and you will be a playoff team more seasons than not. Get double digits in the + column, you are going on a deep playoff run.

Agree...Last year the steelers was at -11...Only + 2 in 2017,even if the steelers was at 13-3

Our best season since 2011 was at only + 5 in 2016...Our last super bowl team were at +17 in 2010

I do not want a team that rely too much on turnovers, but we must at least be in the positive, since the yards in defense and especially in offense have never been a problem for the steelers.

[polamalubeast]

1132320426871414785

[Born2Steel]

Still lack of pass rush from OLBs and still issues at Safety positions. Middle of the defense and up front seems good but one injury to Hayward or Tuitt and they are screwed. Huge lack of depth...

I agree with you mostly. Just have a different opinion on our DL depth. I think Alualu and Hargrave are as good backups as you will find and not much of a dropoff if any. Buggs will play well here, IMO. I got to see way too much Alabama games this past season and he impressed. I'm a bit surprised he wasn't drafted sooner. That puts the DL at 5 quality players by my count and a strength to this defense. Just saying I don't think we would be "screwed" necessarily.

The safety position is scarily unknown today. Davis, Edmunds, Barron, Allen, Dangerfield, and a group of UDFAs. I'm not seeing the improvement at this point.

OLB at least has Watt. Ola is supposed to be a pass rush specialist. Bud will be good for 5-6 sacks. Sutton Smith better translate to the NFL or this could again be a weakness.

[polamalubeast]

1132414779308560384

1132415326220693504

If Butler would not put a LB on a WR it would help!

[Six Rings]

But they were 16th in points allowed and bottom 5 in turnovers.

For this year, like every year, I hope they will be better, not just on the stats since the stats have never been the problem since the steelers often inflates their stats on some games like sacks or other things, but the 'important is how they will do when they face an offense that can give a good test.

I do not want to hear to be patient with this defense because there has new players or a lot of young players in this defense, it's been several years I hear that before each seasons and we still have the same results years after years.A defense that we can not trust in an big position


Right 16th in points allowed and bottom five in turnovers. The defense has a good pass rush, and so-so pass defense with the back seven. A bit better than average vs the run.

[Born2Steel]

We already know how the 2018 defense did. Do you see any improvements headed into 2019? I do. FIRST Bush is exactly the guy they wanted and they got him. (+1) Nelson to replace burns at RCB. (+1) Justin Layne!(+1) Burnett and Bostic were both upgraded this offseason.(+1)

Today our starting CBs look like Haden and Nelson with Hilton in the slot. Backups look like Layne, Sutton, and Burns/Allen. I see this as improvement.

The DL is still the strength of this defense.

VW and Bush at ILB is better than VW and anyone else on the roster from 2018 at ILB.

OLB will hopefully have added 2 pass rush specialists to the room with Ola and Smith. Hype=production added to TJ Watt is a lot of fun.

The safety group is the only place I see no improvement over last season other than Davis in year 2 at FS is a positive, as well as Edmunds in year 2 is hopefully a positive also. Barron can only add experience to this room so that too is a positive. Marcus Allen could be the happy surprise we've been waiting on, OR maybe somebody else gets brought in FA this offseason.

Have to say I think the defense is looking better headed into the 2019 preseason than what we left 2018 with. Honestly.

[pepsyman1]

For the ranking, the stats have never been a problem for the steelers, since some game they will inflate their stats like sacks, yards allowed or even PPG ..... But how they will perform when they will have a good test? .. That's the question.

The stats were usually deceiving as well. We would look pretty good on paper in terms of stats but both Lebeau and Butler's teams spent the better part of the last 7 years folding and giving up points at the end of each half when they used to be good at shutting teams down that were forced to be one dimensional. The only stat I care about anymore is how many points they give up at the end of the day. Even with the current state of the game there are usually 7-9 teams each year that average giving up under 20 points a game with the top 3-4 teams getting lower still. Just get back to that and I'd be happy. That gives us a chance to win.

[Mojouw]

Edmunds, Nelson, Davis, Bush, Haden. SOmeone from that group has to emerge and start generating turnovers. Low points per game are awesome. But I just looked at the list from the past 3 seasons. Lots of defenses that don’t give up points, but also didn’t make the playoffs. The list of high + on the turnover ratio rankings and you are just staring playoff and SB participants.

Edmunds, Davis, Haden, and Nelson all have the tools to generate turnovers. Just have to make it happen.

[Six Rings]

which LB will be covering the other team's top WR this season?



It's an unbelievable but true statement. The Steelers sometimes ask their ILB's to cover WR's. Equally surprising is their 2 Defensive lineman Goal line package. Has Tomlin ever been asked this question as to why the Steelers get themselves into bad match ups?

[polamalubeast]

Remember,the steelers had 4 interceptions in the first 3 games of the 2018 season.....Only 4 others interceptions for the rest of the season in 13 games.

[Steeldude]

A lot depends on the coaching. If the coaching remains the same then expect a poor defense.

[DesertSteel]

A lot depends on the coaching. If the coaching remains the same then expect a poor defense.
Are you expecting them to fire Butler before the season starts??

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Remember,the steelers had 4 interceptions in the first 3 games of the 2018 season.....Only 4 others interceptions for the rest of the season in 13 games.

I still think that Teryl Austin will have an impact on the number of INT and forced fumbles that the Secondary generates this season. Look for them to increase.

Now, if we can also reduce the amount of turnovers on the offensive side of the ball, then the differential will improve substantially.

[teegre]

A lot depends on the coaching. If the coaching remains the same then expect a poor defense.

Porter gone. Butler “demoted” to LBs coach (where he was pretty good).

Austin as the secondary coach is different (and better)... and, he is essentially the new DC.

SUMMATION:
It didn’t remain the same. (It improved.)