Tomlin - "There has been a cleansing"

[AtlantaDan]

Man who allowed his front yard to turn into a junkyard now glad it has been cleaned up

1122257231548907520

He was asked about his comments from earlier in the offseason when he said the Steelers want volunteers, not hostages (https://larrybrownsports.com/football/mike-tomlin-steelers-right-trade-antonio-brown/489092).

“There has been a cleansing, if you will. I meant what I said when I said it,” Tomlin said of his volunteers quote. “I didn’t say it to be a cliche.
“I think when you’re trying to compete at the level we’re trying to compete at and be world champs, that desire, that collective will, the things that you can’t measure, I think that guys that really have a strong desire to be a part of it, there’s a significant element of that.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/mike-tomlin-there-has-been-cleansing-within-steelers/ar-BBWmkLi

[JayC]

we got rid of two jackasses that thought they were bigger than the team...hopefully we can get back to football this year

[st33lersguy]

Now cleanse the bad coaches starting with Butler and Smith and we'll be good

[AtlantaDan]

Now cleanse the bad coaches starting with Butler and Smith and we'll be good

Everybody is questioning Butler and all that stuff but I think Butler is going to be a good football coach. There is some minute stuff they have to correct on him. :rolleyes:

[Mojouw]

Did this cleansing involve an old priest and a young priest?

[Born2Steel]

I have to wonder....was Jesse James becoming an issue too? We didn't really put up much to keep him and the Lions have already made him a backup. His parting shot on the way out could just be that he's an ass as well. Same with Bucky Hodges. He can't seem to stick with a team after being so highly regarded during his draft year. Maybe he's one of those locker room culture cancers. We know Morgan Burnett started making noise as soon as the offseason got here, and after contributing next to nothing for the season. What about LT Walton or LJ Fort? Just some cap casualties or were there issues with them as well? Guess we will never know the answer to these 'wonderings' but on with the "Cleansing".

[munchy]

kind of a bush league move by tomlin.
he didnt have the balls to put them them in their place under his watch but talks tough once colbert and rooney come to his rescue and dumps them for basically nothing

[Born2Steel]

If Busch League is what it takes then Busch League it is. "F" the high road.

[polamalubeast]

kind of a bush league move by tomlin.
he didnt have the balls to put them them in their place under his watch but talks tough once colbert and rooney come to his rescue and dumps them for basically nothing


Maybe it's true, maybe not, but we'll find out in the next few years, since if the steelers are still a circus, Tomlin has to be fired.

- - - Updated - - -


I have to wonder....was Jesse James becoming an issue too? We didn't really put up much to keep him and the Lions have already made him a backup. His parting shot on the way out could just be that he's an ass as well. Same with Bucky Hodges. He can't seem to stick with a team after being so highly regarded during his draft year. Maybe he's one of those locker room culture cancers. We know Morgan Burnett started making noise as soon as the offseason got here, and after contributing next to nothing for the season. What about LT Walton or LJ Fort? Just some cap casualties or were there issues with them as well? Guess we will never know the answer to these 'wonderings' but on with the "Cleansing".

The price for keeping Jesse James was too high, I do not think he was a problem in the locker room.

[vader29]

https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/MjAxMy0xNDdhZGZkMzY3MTMxNTJj.png

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I saw that interview and it was an interesting phrase to use and answer the question.

Tomlin also said they liked Bennie Snell as a football player, an energy guy and a guy that helped turn that program around. I think they like his attitude and what he brings to the team, as well as his 1400 yards rushing last year.

[munchy]

Maybe it's true, maybe not, but we'll find out in the next few years, since if the steelers are still a circus, Tomlin has to be fired.

- - - Updated - - -



The price for keeping Jesse James was too high, I do not think he was a problem in the locker room.


agreed on both
if jesse was one of the kardashians i wouldnt think he would make a reference to the team being the kardashians

[Edman]

The Steelers only got rid of the tumors and the symptoms, not the source of the cancer. Mike Tomlin's profoundly stupid comment showcases this. There is no accountability or real leadership in that locker room. Tomlin instead should blame himself for allowing Brown and Bell to become cancer. Antonio Brown if I recall correctly, wasn't a diva when he was first drafted. He became corrupted over time.

A new cancerous tumor will just emerge eventually. It's the culture of that locker room that created the cancer, not the player. The Steelers will never get "cleansed" until Mike Tomlin is gone.

[pczach]

Did this cleansing involve an old priest and a young priest?



…...and lots of pea soup.

[Steeldude]

Man who allowed his front yard to turn into a junkyard now glad it has been cleaned up

1122257231548907520

He was asked about his comments from earlier in the offseason when he said the Steelers want volunteers, not hostages (https://larrybrownsports.com/football/mike-tomlin-steelers-right-trade-antonio-brown/489092).

“There has been a cleansing, if you will. I meant what I said when I said it,” Tomlin said of his volunteers quote. “I didn’t say it to be a cliche.
“I think when you’re trying to compete at the level we’re trying to compete at and be world champs, that desire, that collective will, the things that you can’t measure, I think that guys that really have a strong desire to be a part of it, there’s a significant element of that.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/mike-tomlin-there-has-been-cleansing-within-steelers/ar-BBWmkLi


Tomlin still remains so it will resurface. I can't see this team being focused all year under Tomlin.

[GoSlash27]

Antonio Brown if I recall correctly, wasn't a diva when he was first drafted. He became corrupted over time.
AB was a prima donna before he was drafted, but I do agree that Tomlin fed into it.

[BlackAndGold]

Tomlin still remains so it will resurface. I can't see this team being focused all year under Tomlin.

We'll see. The two names that were mostly in the news are officially gone.

It's a rumor but the locker room "snitch" DHB is gone also.

Tomlin has a lot of respect from the leaders on this team to be "mostly" blamed. These guys are not kids, players like AB are going to be who they are.

[86WARD]

Is this like the trailer for the Force Awakens? “There has been a cleansing. Have you felt it?”

[EzraTank]

Talk is cheap Mike. Now let's see you "coach up" the "next guy in line" and see if you bullshit sticks.

[tube517]

Pretty much cleaning up. Most of the free agents signed from other teams have been cut or have not been re-signed.

DHB
Morgan Burnett
Jon Bostic
Nat Berhe
Justin Hunter
Stevan Ridley
Coty Sensabaugh

[polamalubeast]

Tomlin still remains so it will resurface. I can't see this team being focused all year under Tomlin.

Maybe, maybe not but if the culture is not very good again, the steelers have to do something they have not done in the last 50 years, this is fire the Head Coach!

Under Cowher, the culture was great for the most part in his 15 years as HC and for Tomlin, it was not a big problem in his first 5 years since the leaders under Cowher was still here, but when the leaders like Hines Ward and James Farrior left,the culture began to be terrible and it was worse in worse from year to year.

The steelers locker room were turned into a circus since the playoffs in 2016 and it never stopped

[Born2Steel]

Bell maybe went about it the wrong way but he was holding out for what he thought he was worth. Turned out he was wrong in the end. I think he would have still been just fine otherwise had he gotten what he wanted. I don’t know I just think he would still be a good teammate had he gotten his way.

AB turned out to be the worst. No defense for this guy at all.

Jesse James cost was too much? I guess so when a rookie can come in and pretty much do what he did. But was he a locker room problem? Don’t know. He did have a parting shot which tells me he at least left with hurt feelings.

Morgan Burnett isn’t worth the conversation. Good player for his career but no contribution as a Steeler. Maybe not a problem in the locker room but he actually asked for a release because he wasn’t being used correctly? Really?

Berhe pretty much the same as Burnett just not a locker room issue as far as we know.

I liked Bostic. He is just not what this defense needs but hardly a locker room cancer.

Thoughts on DHB, Hunter, or the fumbling RB as it pertains to the locker room?

[tube517]

Bell maybe went about it the wrong way but he was holding out for what he thought he was worth. Turned out he was wrong in the end. I think he would have still been just fine otherwise had he gotten what he wanted. I don’t know I just think he would still be a good teammate had he gotten his way.

AB turned out to be the worst. No defense for this guy at all.

Jesse James cost was too much? I guess so when a rookie can come in and pretty much do what he did. But was he a locker room problem? Don’t know. He did have a parting shot which tells me he at least left with hurt feelings.

Morgan Burnett isn’t worth the conversation. Good player for his career but no contribution as a Steeler. Maybe not a problem in the locker room but he actually asked for a release because he wasn’t being used correctly? Really?

Berhe pretty much the same as Burnett just not a locker room issue as far as we know.

I liked Bostic. He is just not what this defense needs but hardly a locker room cancer.

Thoughts on DHB, Hunter, or the fumbling RB as it pertains to the locker room?

I wasn't mentioning these guys as locker room cancers. Only that they were free agents brought in and began w/other teams.

The team seems to be just starting new and starting w/a clean slate. Yes, they did sign 3 free agents but you can't go without fitting in some pieces here and there which was what they used to do. They normally get a minimal amount of free agents and build through the draft.

The Outlaw was alredy pissed off when they signed Vanimal. He was probably ready to go after the season ended and didn't like the way the soap operas were going. He got his paycheck. Good for him.

[AtlantaDan]

Maybe, maybe not but if the culture is not very good again, the steelers have to do something they have not done in the last 50 years, this is fire the Head Coach!

Under Cowher, the culture was great for the most part in his 15 years as HC and for Tomlin, it was not a big problem in his first 5 years since the leaders under Cowher was still here, but when the leaders like Hines Ward and James Farrior left,the culture began to be terrible and it was worse in worse from year to year.

The steelers locker room were turned into a circus since the playoffs in 2016 and it never stopped

There are a few exceptions (Belichick, Tom Landry) but even great coaches (Noll, Lombardi, the very underrated Joe Gibbs) did their most successful work in their first decade or so

Just as the Steelers annually face whether to sign a player to another contract going into his last year under the current contract, the Steelers have to decide whether to follow their standard practice of extending the HC with two years left on the contract - with all the static of the past two seasons (even given the 13-3 regular season) there are good reasons not to extend Tomlin this year.

Of course if he is not extended this summer and the Steelers have a bounce back 2019, Tomlin (like Harbaugh this past season) may decide I now am as wary of you as you were of me and decide he is ready to cash in somewhere else unless the Steelers pay his price

Probably the toughest decision AJRII has faced

[polamalubeast]

There are a few exceptions (Belichick, Tom Landry) but even great coaches (Noll, Lombardi, the very underrated Joe Gibbs) did their most successful work in their first decade or so

Just as the Steelers annually face whether to sign a player to another contract going into his last year under the current contract, the Steelers have to decide whether to follow their standard practice of extending the HC with two years left on the contract - with all the static of the past two seasons (even given the 13-3 regular season) there are good reasons not to extend Tomlin this year.

Of course if he is not extended this summer and the Steelers have a bounce back 2019, Tomlin (like Harbaugh this past season) may decide I now am as wary of you as you were of me and decide he is ready to cash in somewhere else unless the Steelers pay his price

Probably the toughest decision AJRII has faced

I do not think Tomlin deserves a new contract but I think Tomlin is going to have a new contract because the steelers do not want to be a big story.

[Mojouw]

Goodness me. Here we go again.

Dude gave a straight answer to a straight question and some want to hang him out to dry for it.

What was he supposed to say? We're screwed? I treat my players like grown ass men, but some of this jerk-offs can't handle that, so I'm glad they're gone?

[polamalubeast]

1122888204204462080

[Edman]

Goodness me. Here we go again.

Dude gave a straight answer to a straight question and some want to hang him out to dry for it.

What was he supposed to say? We're screwed? I treat my players like grown ass men, but some of this jerk-offs can't handle that, so I'm glad they're gone?

Tomlin's inability to hold people accountable is what created monsters like AB and Bell in the first place. He blames them for the team's problems instead of looking at the source.

That is the fundamental issue with the Steelers: No discipline and no accountability. 2018 wasn't the first time the team shit the bed under Tomlin. Late season collapses have been a trend for years now.

[polamalubeast]

Tomlin's inability to hold people accountable is what created monsters like AB and Bell in the first place. He blames them for the team's problems instead of looking at the source.




Maybe, but I have hope that Tomlin will learn from that ..... And Tomlin has no choice, otherwise he could lose his job.

[Mojouw]

Tomlin's inability to hold people accountable is what created monsters like AB and Bell in the first place. He blames them for the team's problems instead of looking at the source.

That is the fundamental issue with the Steelers: No discipline and no accountability. 2018 wasn't the first time the team shit the bed under Tomlin. Late season collapses have been a trend for years now.

This isn't HS JV football. What was he gonna do make them run suicides after regular practice? Wear the smelly practice jersey? OR perhaps there was a playoff game or regular season game you would have preferred the team take the field with out 2 of its best players?

Two guys got pissed off over money and revealed themselves to be jerks. One guy gets pissy over playing time because he refused to acknowledge he was out of gas and father time had come for him.

These "culture" issues are far different from being too stupid to execute assignments or the assignments being too stupid to execute. Different issues and different sins. One is on the players exclusively and one is on an intersection of players and coaches that we, as fans, struggle to get enough information to understand.

The late season collapses are troubling. And I would buy the "culture" and "discipline" arguments if guys stopped playing hard or doing the little things. But that isn't, to my eye, what is happening. What is happening, again to my mind, is that teams get about 6 games of the Steelers on tape and they can see all the duct tape and bailing wire that is patching holes on defense. They see how they can attack the lack of talent in the middle of the field. They see how they can force the Steelers into "no win" match-ups because they have to give safety help to the crappy CB (Sensabaugh/Burns), the aging CB who plays better with over the top help (Haden), the overwhelmed rookie SS (Edmunds), and the physically overmatched LBs (VW/Bostic/Fort).

Then you force basically zero turnovers, the offense gives the ball away a bit too much, can't kick FGs, and during the later 3rd of the season, teams expose your weaknesses and beat you. That is on the field stuff. That can not be just waved away as "discipline makes it better". There is a serious lack of playmaking talent. What playmaking or potential playmaking talent there is can not be unleashed to make plays because much of it has to be directed towards covering up the limitations of teammates.

Coty Sensabaugh
Artie Burns
Jon Bostic
Tyler Matakevich
Jordan Dangerfield

Those are not starting NFL caliber players. Yet each was forced into significant roles in the defense. And when teams needed plays, they isolated and exposed one or more of those guys. Over and Over again. Not surprisingly, the team just spent 6 months obtaining different players for each of those roster spots.

[AtlantaDan]

Goodness me. Here we go again.

Dude gave a straight answer to a straight question and some want to hang him out to dry for it.

What was he supposed to say? We're screwed? I treat my players like grown ass men, but some of this jerk-offs can't handle that, so I'm glad they're gone?

It is an improvement over his straight answer to Tony Dungy in November 2017 that the really big matchup with the Patriots during the 2017 season would be the second one :rolleyes:

Lots of coach’s personas wear out with the fan base over time - for better or worse Tomlin is in that zone after player control issues that were tolerable through December 2017 are less so after on the field results since then

[polamalubeast]

It is an improvement over his straight answer to Tony Dungy in November 2017 that the really big matchup with the Patriots during the 2017 season would be the second one :rolleyes:

Lots of coach’s personas wear out with the fan base over time - for better or worse Tomlin is in that zone after player control issues that were tolerable through December 2017 are less so after on the field results since then

This is one of the reasons why Tomlin deserves some blame since the Steelers do not always have the focus at the right place ....

During his tenure, the steelers missed the playoffs by one game 3 times and 3 of his seasons, the steelers lost against a terrible Oakland Raiders team.

Focus has always been a major problem under Tomlin

[Mojouw]

Again, we are down the rabbit hole that these guys can't deal with more than one thing at a time.

I am currently teaching multiple classes that require prep and grading on a daily basis. I am planning a major event that requires coordination of dozens of guests and multiple vendors. I am preparing for a significant examination that will impact the rest of my professional career. I am prepping for a month long research trip overseas. And I am thinking far too deeply about Game of Thrones and Avengers.

That's just how life works. People can focus on more than one thing at a time. In fact people do this no matter what. Focusing on only one thing has a name -- most people call it "boredom".

[DesertSteel]

Again, we are down the rabbit hole that these guys can't deal with more than one thing at a time.

I am currently teaching multiple classes that require prep and grading on a daily basis. I am planning a major event that requires coordination of dozens of guests and multiple vendors. I am preparing for a significant examination that will impact the rest of my professional career. I am prepping for a month long research trip overseas. And I am thinking far too deeply about Game of Thrones and Avengers.

That's just how life works. People can focus on more than one thing at a time. In fact people do this no matter what. Focusing on only one thing has a name -- most people call it "boredom".
And yet you still make time for your buds here on Steelers Universe! I wouldn't waste any time on that Avengers movie though. Very disappointing IMO.

Good luck on the exam!

[Edman]

This isn't HS JV football. What was he gonna do make them run suicides after regular practice? Wear the smelly practice jersey? OR perhaps there was a playoff game or regular season game you would have preferred the team take the field with out 2 of its best players?

Two guys got pissed off over money and revealed themselves to be jerks. One guy gets pissy over playing time because he refused to acknowledge he was out of gas and father time had come for him.

These "culture" issues are far different from being too stupid to execute assignments or the assignments being too stupid to execute. Different issues and different sins. One is on the players exclusively and one is on an intersection of players and coaches that we, as fans, struggle to get enough information to understand.

The late season collapses are troubling. And I would buy the "culture" and "discipline" arguments if guys stopped playing hard or doing the little things. But that isn't, to my eye, what is happening. What is happening, again to my mind, is that teams get about 6 games of the Steelers on tape and they can see all the duct tape and bailing wire that is patching holes on defense. They see how they can attack the lack of talent in the middle of the field. They see how they can force the Steelers into "no win" match-ups because they have to give safety help to the crappy CB (Sensabaugh/Burns), the aging CB who plays better with over the top help (Haden), the overwhelmed rookie SS (Edmunds), and the physically overmatched LBs (VW/Bostic/Fort).

Then you force basically zero turnovers, the offense gives the ball away a bit too much, can't kick FGs, and during the later 3rd of the season, teams expose your weaknesses and beat you. That is on the field stuff. That can not be just waved away as "discipline makes it better". There is a serious lack of playmaking talent. What playmaking or potential playmaking talent there is can not be unleashed to make plays because much of it has to be directed towards covering up the limitations of teammates.

Coty Sensabaugh
Artie Burns
Jon Bostic
Tyler Matakevich
Jordan Dangerfield

Those are not starting NFL caliber players. Yet each was forced into significant roles in the defense. And when teams needed plays, they isolated and exposed one or more of those guys. Over and Over again. Not surprisingly, the team just spent 6 months obtaining different players for each of those roster spots.


You're not going to field Pro Bowlers and All-Pros at every position. There will be some weak spots and talent deficiencies somewhere. That's where coaching takes over. A good coach gets solid production from lesser players. A good coach puts players in position to succeed, maximizes strengths and minimizes weaknesses. Tomlin and the coaching staff has done a sub standard job of putting players to succeed. Artie Burns has done nothing but regress since his rookie year into the thirty car pile up he is now.

Top Tier Coaching turns Average players to Good. Poor Coaching turns Average players to Awful. The Steelers have been poorly coached under Tomlin for years now, only for their top talent to save them, until it couldn't be covered anymore.

The Steelers have stubbornly taken a square peg-round hole approach when it comes to scheme and personnel, and it has done nothing for them this decade.

[ALLD]

Is the coaching staff resigning? The best one just left.

[Mojouw]

You're not going to field Pro Bowlers and All-Pros at every position. There will be some weak spots and talent deficiencies somewhere. That's where coaching takes over. A good coach gets solid production from lesser players. A good coach puts players in position to succeed, maximizes strengths and minimizes weaknesses. Tomlin and the coaching staff has done a sub standard job of putting players to succeed. Artie Burns has done nothing but regress since his rookie year into the thirty car pile up he is now.

Top Tier Coaching turns Average players to Good. Poor Coaching turns Average players to Awful. The Steelers have been poorly coached under Tomlin for years now, only for their top talent to save them, until it couldn't be covered anymore.

The Steelers have stubbornly taken a square peg-round hole approach when it comes to scheme and personnel, and it has done nothing for them this decade.

This is just such a terrible basis for an argument. You essentially are attempting to support the thesis that if a coach or coaching staff is good enough, then talent doesn't really matter. That is the stuff of Disney movies about high school sports. I mean maybe we aren't talking about the same thing.

I'm not talking about weaknesses on roster or guys that it would be nice if a Pro Bowler showed up to replace them. I'm talking about guys that shouldn't draw an NFL paycheck because they are below the minimum bar for either physical or mental capability to play in the league. What other sports (baseball) has measured out as "replacement level". I'm arguing that about a half dozen players who ended up getting significant snaps in big situations for the Steelers last year were at or below replacement level. There is no scheme or coaching that can spackle over the mental and physical gap between Jordan Dangerfield and a modestly proficient NFL WR. In a match-up between those two, the WR will be open every single time.

Look at Vince Williams. A player I like. He is one of the headiest players on the team, fundamentally sound, and plays his butt off every snap. But he can't consistently cover 80% of NFL RBs. There is no scheme, coaching tip, or technique drill that will make up for the fact that VW does not have the raw speed and change of direction skills to accomplish that task.

So what do offenses do? They identify the keys and tendencies that the Steelers use to determine what personnel package to put on the field. They then show the Steelers that. They isolate a VW, a Bostic, or an overmatched CB in coverage and they bang on that drum until the Steelers show them something else. Only thing is, the depth at LB and DB was so thin -- there was nothing else to show them. As a result late in games and late in seasons, when the other team has seen your tendencies and responses within the defensive game-plan -- they can carve you up.

Look at this past weekend. The Steelers would've picked 15 LBs if they could have. It couldn't be clearer that they want to get faster and more athletic at that position and they will have the personnel to play a dime or 3-3-5 a ton this season or die trying. That is a pretty significant indication that the team itself thinks they don't have enough talent to do the necessary things on defense.

[DesertSteel]

I would have preferred him to say, "There has been an exorcism," but I suppose cleansing will have to work.

[polamalubeast]

The problem of steelers has always been the football situation and the details.The Steelers were 6th in yards on defense and 4th in offensive yards and most of the time under Tomlin were in the top of the NFL on offense and defense in yards.

But what is the biggest problem? .... The football situation and the details ..... The turnovers ratio was awful or at best average since the 2011 season and the field position for our defense and especially our offense was awful , year after year.

If we look at the pats, often they are in the bottom 10-12 in yards on defense but always in the top 10 in points (including the 2017 season when they had an awful defense and their best pass rusher was a 40 year old James Harrison who was not good enough to be in rotation with the steelers) but the pats were still in the top 5 in points) and it's a team that does not beat themselves

The steelers have this major problem since 2011 and the best coaches would not have accepted this for so long...Each team have injuries and weaknesses ... Just to look at Doug Peterson and the eagles .... In 2017, they win the super bowl despite several injuries including his QB but Peterson helped Foles to be successful by changing his playbook a bit and they had 3 playoffs win as UNDERDOG to win the super bowl.

Last year they had no secondary but they still beat the 12-4 Chicago Bears on the road (yes they were lucky, but they were 6-7 points underdog again) and almost win against the saints.

The steelers had 9 pro bowl in uniform in their playoffs game at home in 2017 against the worst team in this decade after the Cleveland Browns, but that was not enough for Tomlin to beat Blake Bortles since the players were more focused on the pats. ..

Yes, Shazier's injury hurt, but the super bowl champions in 2017 had a lot of injury too ...

[Born2Steel]

I wasn't mentioning these guys as locker room cancers. Only that they were free agents brought in and began w/other teams.

The team seems to be just starting new and starting w/a clean slate. Yes, they did sign 3 free agents but you can't go without fitting in some pieces here and there which was what they used to do. They normally get a minimal amount of free agents and build through the draft.

The Outlaw was alredy pissed off when they signed Vanimal. He was probably ready to go after the season ended and didn't like the way the soap operas were going. He got his paycheck. Good for him.

I honestly wasn't responding to your post but those are the same names I was talking about. LOL.

I think James left with a chip and a parting shot. He did put in the work so credit to him there. He just never became what was needed. Grimble is all the proof you need of that. Bostic will catch on somewhere else or retire. The rest, I really don't care where they end up.

[Steeler-in-west]

Stop with the excuses and Just coach.

[munchy]

The problem of steelers has always been the football situation and the details.The Steelers were 6th in yards on defense and 4th in offensive yards and most of the time under Tomlin were in the top of the NFL on offense and defense in yards.

But what is the biggest problem? .... The football situation and the details ..... The turnovers ratio was awful or at best average since the 2011 season and the field position for our defense and especially our offense was awful , year after year.

If we look at the pats, often they are in the bottom 10-12 in yards on defense but always in the top 10 in points (including the 2017 season when they had an awful defense and their best pass rusher was a 40 year old James Harrison who was not good enough to be in rotation with the steelers) but the pats were still in the top 5 in points) and it's a team that does not beat themselves

The steelers have this major problem since 2011 and the best coaches would not have accepted this for so long...Each team have injuries and weaknesses ... Just to look at Doug Peterson and the eagles .... In 2017, they win the super bowl despite several injuries including his QB but Peterson helped Foles to be successful by changing his playbook a bit and they had 3 playoffs win as UNDERDOG to win the super bowl.

Last year they had no secondary but they still beat the 12-4 Chicago Bears on the road (yes they were lucky, but they were 6-7 points underdog again) and almost win against the saints.

The steelers had 9 pro bowl in uniform in their playoffs game at home in 2017 against the worst team in this decade after the Cleveland Browns, but that was not enough for Tomlin to beat Blake Bortles since the players were more focused on the pats. ..

Yes, Shazier's injury hurt, but the super bowl champions in 2017 had a lot of injury too ...

i was talking to buddies of mine about that stat. to rank #4 and #6 and not make the playoffs is absurd. especially with no injuries

[munchy]

This isn't HS JV football. What was he gonna do make them run suicides after regular practice? Wear the smelly practice jersey? OR perhaps there was a playoff game or regular season game you would have preferred the team take the field with out 2 of its best players?

Two guys got pissed off over money and revealed themselves to be jerks. One guy gets pissy over playing time because he refused to acknowledge he was out of gas and father time had come for him.

These "culture" issues are far different from being too stupid to execute assignments or the assignments being too stupid to execute. Different issues and different sins. One is on the players exclusively and one is on an intersection of players and coaches that we, as fans, struggle to get enough information to understand.

The late season collapses are troubling. And I would buy the "culture" and "discipline" arguments if guys stopped playing hard or doing the little things. But that isn't, to my eye, what is happening. What is happening, again to my mind, is that teams get about 6 games of the Steelers on tape and they can see all the duct tape and bailing wire that is patching holes on defense. They see how they can attack the lack of talent in the middle of the field. They see how they can force the Steelers into "no win" match-ups because they have to give safety help to the crappy CB (Sensabaugh/Burns), the aging CB who plays better with over the top help (Haden), the overwhelmed rookie SS (Edmunds), and the physically overmatched LBs (VW/Bostic/Fort).

Then you force basically zero turnovers, the offense gives the ball away a bit too much, can't kick FGs, and during the later 3rd of the season, teams expose your weaknesses and beat you. That is on the field stuff. That can not be just waved away as "discipline makes it better". There is a serious lack of playmaking talent. What playmaking or potential playmaking talent there is can not be unleashed to make plays because much of it has to be directed towards covering up the limitations of teammates.

Coty Sensabaugh
Artie Burns
Jon Bostic
Tyler Matakevich
Jordan Dangerfield

Those are not starting NFL caliber players. Yet each was forced into significant roles in the defense. And when teams needed plays, they isolated and exposed one or more of those guys. Over and Over again. Not surprisingly, the team just spent 6 months obtaining different players for each of those roster spots.

seems like this would have been the perfect draft to move up an get a few of play makers instead of sitting back and drafting a ton of 6-udfa or used FA or both

[Born2Steel]

seems like this would have been the perfect draft to move up an get a few of play makers instead of sitting back and drafting a ton of 6-udfa or used FA or both

Exactly! 100% this! We could have double dipped at WR but a short slow guy from Toledo should do. OR double dip at CB but a project that won’t play this season in the third is better. Instead how about we triple dip with 3 under-sized linebackers, that will help alot. Make sure we get a TE that can’t block and a OL that has no chance to make the roster. I like Benny Snell fine but could have brought him in as a UDFA instead of using a draft pick. I think the entire draft was a sarcastic farce at the fan’s expense.

[NCSteeler]

Again, we are down the rabbit hole that these guys can't deal with more than one thing at a time.

I am currently teaching multiple classes that require prep and grading on a daily basis. I am planning a major event that requires coordination of dozens of guests and multiple vendors. I am preparing for a significant examination that will impact the rest of my professional career. I am prepping for a month long research trip overseas. And I am thinking far too deeply about Game of Thrones and Avengers.

That's just how life works. People can focus on more than one thing at a time. In fact people do this no matter what. Focusing on only one thing has a name -- most people call it "boredom".So what is the reason. Tomlinson teams are perenial losers to at least one team that no one in the league should lose to?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[munchy]

Exactly! 100% this! We could have double dipped at WR but a short slow guy from Toledo should do. OR double dip at CB but a project that won’t play this season in the third is better. Instead how about we triple dip with 3 under-sized linebackers, that will help alot. Make sure we get a TE that can’t block and a OL that has no chance to make the roster. I like Benny Snell fine but could have brought him in as a UDFA instead of using a draft pick. I think the entire draft was a sarcastic farce at the fan’s expense.

my choices
sweat
thornhill
pratt
boykin
a few trade ups in the 4th could have netted love and moreau, for example
some of the rest that got drafted might have been avaiulable as udfa

- - - Updated - - -


So what is the reason. Tomlinson teams are perenial losers to at least one team that no one in the league should lose to?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

i hate tomlins guts and want him gone 5 years go, BUT i bet every team in the league has a loss on their schedule that they think is inexcusable. what sticks out in our minds is that 1 or 2 pathetic losses keeps us out of the playoffs or costs us hfa

[Mojouw]

So what is the reason. Tomlinson teams are perenial losers to at least one team that no one in the league should lose to?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

There is no single reason. The biggest is that the gap between the best team in the NFL and the worst team in the league is far far narrower than fans perceive it as. The NFL has done everything in its power to ensure that 'any given Sunday" is a phrase that has a great deal of harsh reality in the league week in and week out.

Sports and life are complex and difficult to explain. But for sports we have created this internet information echo chamber that claims to explain why everything does or does not happen in sports. And it is kind of ridiculous. Football is basically the worst because coaches labor under the illusion that enough discipline and repetition can just grind variance and chaos into the dust. That is just about as untrue as something can be. Murphy's Law and whatnot. But everyone buys into the idea that you can practice and plan out chaos and randomness in the NFL. It is a myth.

For instance, how many times does Grimble make that same catch and same move in Denver and NOT fumble? 5? 8? 9/10? If he does they almost certainly win that game and make the playoffs. Then who knows. But it gets talked about not as a random event but a result of a lack of focus and coaching that Grimble did not respond with the run away button instead of the truck stick after the catch. I don't and have never bought that coaching and practice are effective to that level. 10/10 Grimble is going to see a little ole DB out there between him and the goal line and be licking his chops to just run right through the guy.

[Born2Steel]

my choices
sweat
thornhill
pratt
boykin
a few trade ups in the 4th could have netted love and moreau, for example
some of the rest that got drafted might have been avaiulable as udfa

- - - Updated - - -



i hate tomlins guts and want him gone 5 years go, BUT i bet every team in the league has a loss on their schedule that they think is inexcusable. what sticks out in our minds is that 1 or 2 pathetic losses keeps us out of the playoffs or costs us hfa

I don’t know why we bring in unproven draft picks anyway. Instead of trading up use our 1st, 2nd, and next year’s 3rd and trade them to Green Bay for Aaron Rodgers.
Use our 2 3rd round picks for the Saints CB tandem of Apple and Lattimore.
Our 4th round pick would have been good to trade to Robert Kraft for a massage session at that Orchid place.
Then use the 5th to get a 12pack and some hotwings. Massages make you hungry I hear.
3 6th round picks for the Devil himself.
And who even needs a 7th round pick? Just throw it out and get on with collecting UDFA losers.

[HollywoodSteel]

There are certainly legit criticisms of Tomlin to be made, but it’s starting to get a little ridiculous around here. Don’t get me wrong, it’s all amusing commentary, but come on...

I won’t bother to repeat everything Mojouw said, as he said it all quite well. The only thing I’ll add is to say that criticism of Tomlin’s lack of accountability is simply misplaced. He has very clearly taken responsibility for the culture problems. He said that he needs to do better. If he fails to do better then by all means get rid of him. But this is him trying to improve the culture while being honest about his assessment of it. Let’s see if it improves.

If we’d made just a few more field goals in ‘18 we could easily have gone all the way and people would be crowing Tomlin as coach of the year without him having made one different decision.

Such is life in the NFL. Obviously.

[NCSteeler]

There is no single reason. The biggest is that the gap between the best team in the NFL and the worst team in the league is far far narrower than fans perceive it as. The NFL has done everything in its power to ensure that 'any given Sunday" is a phrase that has a great deal of harsh reality in the league week in and week out.

Sports and life are complex and difficult to explain. But for sports we have created this internet information echo chamber that claims to explain why everything does or does not happen in sports. And it is kind of ridiculous. Football is basically the worst because coaches labor under the illusion that enough discipline and repetition can just grind variance and chaos into the dust. That is just about as untrue as something can be. Murphy's Law and whatnot. But everyone buys into the idea that you can practice and plan out chaos and randomness in the NFL. It is a myth.

For instance, how many times does Grimble make that same catch and same move in Denver and NOT fumble? 5? 8? 9/10? If he does they almost certainly win that game and make the playoffs. Then who knows. But it gets talked about not as a random event but a result of a lack of focus and coaching that Grimble did not respond with the run away button instead of the truck stick after the catch. I don't and have never bought that coaching and practice are effective to that level. 10/10 Grimble is going to see a little ole DB out there between him and the goal line and be licking his chops to just run right through the guy.I'm sorry I'm not buying the any given Sunday to the way Steelers teams look against far inferior talent. It's scoop out I may not know why but I'm sure that isnt it. I can pretty much predict the future when it comes to tomlin coached teams looking like crap against lousy competition

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[polamalubeast]

There are certainly legit criticisms of Tomlin to be made, but it’s starting to get a little ridiculous around here. Don’t get me wrong, it’s all amusing commentary, but come on...

I won’t bother to repeat everything Mojouw said, as he said it all quite well. The only thing I’ll add is to say that criticism of Tomlin’s lack of accountability is simply misplaced. He has very clearly taken responsibility for the culture problems. He said that he needs to do better. If he fails to do better then by all means get rid of him. But this is him trying to improve the culture while being honest about his assessment of it. Let’s see if it improves.

If we’d made just a few more field goals in ‘18 we could easily have gone all the way and people would be crowing Tomlin as coach of the year without him having made one different decision.

Such is life in the NFL. Obviously.


Yes, but if the Jets win against the Bills in week 17 in 2015 and the Ravens players do not miss his tackle on AB at the end of the game in week 16 we miss the playoffs in his two years there

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but the steelers need to play less games where it can go from one side or the other especially against weaker teams ...

Remember, we won several close games in our 2017 season .... In fact, it's not like our points differenciel have been great in the last few years, so I do not think the steelers were unlucky in the close games .....John Harbaugh and the Ravens have been very unlucky in close games since at least 2015 and almost lost his job because of that.

[Edman]

When you look at the upcoming schedule and can pinpoint/predict that the Steelers will suck/lose against 3-5 win teams, that isn't "Any Given Sunday" or a fluke, that's a trend. And a troubling trend at that.

[polamalubeast]

When you look at the upcoming schedule and can pinpoint/predict that the Steelers will suck/lose against 3-5 win teams, that isn't "Any Given Sunday" or a fluke, that's a trend. And a troubling trend at that.

As I said in this thread (or another one), the steelers missed the playoffs 4 times under Tomlin and 3 of his times the steelers missed the playoffs by just one game because they lost against a pathetic Oakland Raiders team. ... no excuse about that.

Never the steelers would have won the super bowl with Tomlin in 2005 .... Do you really think the steelers would have won 41-0 against a weak Browns team in week 16 on the road in a must win game ..... No, this game would have been very close....

[Mojouw]

Notice how, as usual, the fire all the coaches this team has a massive psychological problem do not detail any tactical, strategic, or other on-field related points to support the hypothesis? Just that people feel the team should be better than it has been. Now, they might be right. But it sure would be nice if it wasn't an exercise in trying to prove a negative.

[Six Rings]

Some coaches can handle diva players, other can not. Tomlin off and on again rules were part of the problem. He's simply not respected enough by the players, even Pouncey disobeyed him on his social media tweets about his injury status.

[polamalubeast]

1123617668605464576

[st33lersguy]

There are certainly legit criticisms of Tomlin to be made, but it’s starting to get a little ridiculous around here. Don’t get me wrong, it’s all amusing commentary, but come on...

I won’t bother to repeat everything Mojouw said, as he said it all quite well. The only thing I’ll add is to say that criticism of Tomlin’s lack of accountability is simply misplaced. He has very clearly taken responsibility for the culture problems. He said that he needs to do better. If he fails to do better then by all means get rid of him. But this is him trying to improve the culture while being honest about his assessment of it. Let’s see if it improves.

If we’d made just a few more field goals in ‘18 we could easily have gone all the way and people would be crowing Tomlin as coach of the year without him having made one different decision.

Such is life in the NFL. Obviously.

All the way to what? An embarrassing home divisional round playoff elimination at the hands of the Patriots?

[Born2Steel]

All the way to what? An embarrassing home divisional round playoff elimination at the hands of the Patriots?

Pretty sure the Steelers beat the Patriots last year AND had Outlaw’s TD for the win taken away the year before. But yes, look for a negative or just make one up.

[st33lersguy]

Pretty sure the Steelers beat the Patriots last year AND had Outlaw’s TD for the win taken away the year before. But yes, look for a negative or just make one up.

Really pushing it thinking Tomlin and Butler were going to win twice against the Patriots in one season. The Patriots were clearly playing better in January than in December. The Pats would have adjusted their game plan to outsmart the Steelers while Tomlin and Butler would have just stood there with on answer. Would play like 2004, not to mention the AB crap

[Born2Steel]

Really pushing it thinking Tomlin and Butler were going to win twice against the Patriots in one season. The Patriots were clearly playing better in January than in December. The Pats would have adjusted their game plan to outsmart the Steelers while Tomlin and Butler would have just stood there with on answer. Would play like 2004

Should we even try to beat them this year then? In my book that would be 3 in a row(I count Jesse James’ TD). OR is that an impossible feat and we should just concede now?

[polamalubeast]

We will never know and it does not matter, since the steelers did not deserve to make the playoffs in 2018.When you lose against a terrible Raiders team in a must win game, the steelers are the only ones to blame ...It's not like the steelers had perform better than their record .... +68 as points differencial(not even in the top 6 in the AFC) gave us an Expected W-L of 9.6-6.4,which is what the steelers have had.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2018.htm

[st33lersguy]

Should we even try to beat them this year then? In my book that would be 3 in a row(I count Jesse James’ TD). OR is that an impossible feat and we should just concede now?

Blame the refs all you want for losing the Jesse James TD (and for missing the playoffs on like 2 or 3 calls or something), the Steelers win if they hadn't blown a late lead and if Haley doesn't completely mismanage the last 5 minutes of the game (including the Chinese fire drill the last 2 plays) or is it too easy to blame the refs and too hard to look at what the team did to lose? Sorry they didn't win in 2017

[Born2Steel]

Blame the refs all you want for losing the Jesse James TD (and for missing the playoffs on like 2 or 3 calls or something), the Steelers win if they hadn't blown a late lead and if Haley doesn't completely mismanage the last 5 minutes of the game (including the Chinese fire drill the last 2 plays) or is it too easy to blame the refs and too hard to look at what the team did to lose? Sorry they didn't win in 2017

You mean the complete cluster that happened after Jesse’s TD?

Now, are you gonna sack up and answer the question posed directly to you or keep changing the subject?

[st33lersguy]

You mean the complete cluster that happened after Jesse’s TD?

Now, are you gonna sack up and answer the question posed directly to you or keep changing the subject?

Pretty sure you have to beat a team twice in a row before even thinking about beating them three times in a row. (And no, fans bitching about the officiating doesn't count as a win)

[DesertSteel]

We will never know and it does not matter, since the steelers did not deserve to make the playoffs in 2018.When you lose against a terrible Raiders team in a must win game, the steelers are the only ones to blame ...It's not like the steelers had perform better than their record .... +68 as points differencial(not even in the top 6 in the AFC) gave us an Expected W-L of 9.6-6.4,which is what the steelers have had.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2018.htm
Because the head coach kept his HOF QB on the sidelines because he “didn’t want to disrupt the flow of the game.”

[Born2Steel]

Pretty sure you have to beat a team twice in a row before even thinking about beating them three times in a row. (And no, fans bitching about the officiating doesn't count as a win)

So no sack. No problem man, carry on then.

[polamalubeast]

Bring back Martavis?

1125793197270155269



Such a stupid question!

Brown, Bell and others deserve the criticism they had because the steelers had a toxic locker room in the last few years, but Martavis was also a big problem....Remember his comments on JuJu in the mid-season in 2017 ... Or his comments on Sammie Coates after the steelers drafted JuJu!

So, I can't believe this question was asked.

[86WARD]

Not sure...Chickillo is fighting with fans on Instagram because he posts stupid videos that people are calling him out for.

He’s definitely replaced AB as the Instagram-Idiot. Hopefully Facebook didn’t throw him a contract...

[teegre]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGcTcDcrx9s&app=desktop

[Hawkman]

Not sure...Chickillo is fighting with fans on Instagram because he posts stupid videos that people are calling him out for.

He’s definitely replaced AB as the Instagram-Idiot. Hopefully Facebook didn’t throw him a contract...

Well of course, we couldn’t stay out of the media for long.

[Mojouw]

Not sure...Chickillo is fighting with fans on Instagram because he posts stupid videos that people are calling him out for.

He’s definitely replaced AB as the Instagram-Idiot. Hopefully Facebook didn’t throw him a contract...
LIke secret racist videos? Or power healing crystals, or flat earth? Weird redneck conspiracy theories? Do tell. I would love to know what you have to do to have people come at you on Instagram. Not enough to go on Instagram. But enough to demand that you do and report back!

[86WARD]

LIke secret racist videos? Or power healing crystals, or flat earth? Weird redneck conspiracy theories? Do tell. I would love to know what you have to do to have people come at you on Instagram. Not enough to go on Instagram. But enough to demand that you do and report back!

Lol. I wish it was that.

I believe it’s just shirt off, driving and rapping, roid raging type videos. His go to comeback to the hecklers hoes something like: “You’re smart bro”.

Instagram or Twitter...one of those social things.

He definitely looks like he’s on some sort of PED type high...lol

[Mojouw]

Lol. I wish it was that.

I believe it’s just shirt off, driving and rapping, roid raging type videos. His go to comeback to the hecklers hoes something like: “You’re smart bro”.

Instagram or Twitter...one of those social things.

He definitely looks like he’s on some sort of PED type high...lol

Great. Frat boy meathead. Color me shocked.

[86WARD]

Great. Frat boy meathead. Color me shocked.

To sum it up in a few words...yes...

[86WARD]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190519/17b80b1866dfdf0ad3f072b063511765.jpg

[GoSlash27]

I believe it’s just shirt off, driving and rapping, roid raging type videos. His go to comeback to the hecklers hoes something like: “You’re smart bro”.

Instagram or Twitter...one of those social things.

He definitely looks like he’s on some sort of PED type high...lol

Time to come up with a nickname for him? I recommend "Another Chucklehead" :D

[Born2Steel]

Maybe he already knows the writing is on the wall. Sure he got a new contract but his job is still up for grabs and if he can't get to the QB or at least cause chaos in the backfield, Smith will take that contract away from him. Chickillo is a converted DE like Woodley but never quite panned out the same, more like Hood. He has become a decent but not spectacular backup OLB and a pretty good special teamer.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190519/17b80b1866dfdf0ad3f072b063511765.jpg The Miz is a Steeler ?