Steelers select Benny Snell, RB, Kentucky #122 overall [Archive]

munchy

04-27-2019, 12:31 PM

So they drafted a three yards and a cloud of dust RB with little explosive traits in the era of warp speed pass wacky football?

Honestly I don’t know anything about the guy.

i might be wrong and definitely will go against the masses here, but it looks to me like we drafted a 3rd string rb(who wont see the filed) a 4th string wr(who will probably only see the field a a returner) a 4th cb(who wont play this year) and a 1s t rounder who will have to compete against FA(good money) for playing time.

for a team that didnt make the playoffs and supposedly went all in for bush to make a final super bowl run with ben, drafted for a couple years down the road with the rest of our picks

polamalubeast

04-27-2019, 12:33 PM

i might be wrong and definitely will go against the masses here, but it looks to me like we drafted a 3rd string rb(who wont see the filed) a 4th string wr(who will probably only see the field a a returner) a 4th cb(who wont play this year) and a 1s t rounder who will have to compete against FA(good money) for playing time.

for a team that didnt make the playoffs and supposedly went all in for bush to make a final super bowl run with ben, drafted for a couple years down the road with the rest of our picks

I do not understand why the steelers did not fire Colbert and hire you as GM.

El-Gonzo Jackson

04-27-2019, 12:34 PM

Agreed. Not a fan of the pick as he’s a 3rd string guy behind pro bowl Conner and Samuels who light up New England.

Snell is too slow to feature. We could have picked a safety, or tight end,

So Conner is the starter. Snell is the downhill workhorse that will get some reps to spell Conner and hopefully let the 3 Pro Bowl O linemen(and 2 supporting cast) impose themselves in the run game. Then Samuels is that 2nd or 3rd down Run/Pass option back. I don't see the problem, other than I wanted them to draft Hollins from Oregon.

stillers4me

04-27-2019, 12:35 PM

teegre

04-27-2019, 12:36 PM

I do not understand why the steelers did not fire Colbert and hire you as GM.

:toofunny: POST OF THE DAY!!! :toofunny:

Mojouw

04-27-2019, 12:38 PM

You all are winning me over. Also read that Snell is a proficient pass protector as well.

MojoUW has a bad problem of getting entranced by size/speed/SPARQ numbers and gets grumpy when guys lacking those get drafted. Forgetting that they have to actually play football not just test out well.

stillers4me

04-27-2019, 12:41 PM

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stillers4me

04-27-2019, 12:52 PM

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AtlantaDan

04-27-2019, 01:01 PM

Short yardage back to replace Ridley (hopefully without the fumbles)? :noidea:

Snell is a big back and powerful between-the-tackles runner with the core strength and balance to pick up yards after contact. He lowers his shoulder and delivers the blow to finish runs. He's not as effective running outside as inside. Snell is not a breakaway threat or an ankle breaker in space. His lack of ideal production in the passing game is a concern. He flashes good ball skills given the opportunity.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/teams/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers

Snell won't run away from linebackers and defensive backs at the NFL level, but he's so patient as a runner (sound like an ex-Steelers RB?), has plus contact balance, and deceptive springiness in his powerful frame.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/draft-tracker/

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue

04-27-2019, 01:02 PM

Love the pick and watch him run all over Penn State in the Bowl game. Conner goes down at all the Steelers won't miss a beat now.

teegre

04-27-2019, 01:03 PM

From what I am reading, the kid has a huge heart. He gets by on will & drive. Not the fastest, but he will get that first down yardage.

EzraTank

04-27-2019, 01:05 PM

Snell is a lot like James Conner, I thought we were going to draft a shiftier, change of pace type of back.

We already have that in Samuels.

SteelMember

04-27-2019, 01:14 PM

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue

04-27-2019, 01:14 PM

From what I am reading, the kid has a huge heart. He gets by on will & drive. Not the fastest, but he will get that first down yardage. Penn State had a chance to comeback with 4 minutes to go in the bowl game. All they had to do is keep him from getting two first downs. They couldn't stop him when they knew he would be running it. He reminds me a little of Barry Foster and is a chain mover.

stillers4me

04-27-2019, 01:15 PM

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teegre

04-27-2019, 01:15 PM

Penn State had a chance to comeback with 4 minutes to go in the bowl game. All they had to do is keep him from getting two first downs. They couldn't stop him when they knew he would be running it. He reminds me a little of Barry Foster and is a chain mover.

:yup:

polamalubeast

04-27-2019, 01:26 PM

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munchy

04-27-2019, 02:12 PM

I do not understand why the steelers did not fire Colbert and hire you as GM.

agreed............

st33lersguy

04-27-2019, 02:35 PM

They really thought a no. 3 rb who wont get 10 touches on the year was more important than real insurance for Vance McDonald, safety depth, and an edge rusher across from tj watt?

Born2Steel

04-27-2019, 02:37 PM

LOL! Did any of you guys watch Benny Snell in college this past season? He may jump over Samuels to the RB2 spot.

hawaiiansteeler

04-27-2019, 02:37 PM

LOL! Did any of you guys watch Benny Snell in college this past season? He may jump over Samuels to the RB2 spot.

exactly, he's really good!

stillers4me

04-27-2019, 02:51 PM

.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190427/708e8c4eb4287d18eb9c3db7ec2bbb90.jpg

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue

04-27-2019, 02:53 PM

LOL! Did any of you guys watch Benny Snell in college this past season? He may jump over Samuels to the RB2 spot. He also will challenge Conner for carries. Samuels will be the 3rd down back he is actually fit for and meant to be.

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.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190427/708e8c4eb4287d18eb9c3db7ec2bbb90.jpg

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!

86WARD

04-27-2019, 04:13 PM

Very happy with the Benny Snell pick. He tore up Penn State in the Citrus Bowl and I think he was MVP of the game.

polamalubeast

04-27-2019, 04:28 PM

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ThorndikeFFA

04-27-2019, 04:55 PM

Snell is in non-stop beast mode. Go watch some of his film. I don't know (or care) what his 40 time is, the kid is just a mauler at RB. Steeler fans are going to love this kid.

AtlantaDan

04-27-2019, 05:11 PM

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NFL and its media partners (notably ESPN, which broadcasts a lot of bowl games) have been doing a solid for college teams by sending out the word sitting out the meaningless non-playoff bowl games to avoid injury is not viewed favorably.

ESPN draft expert Todd McShay predicted that [Deandre] Baker, a projected first-round pick, could fall because of decisions he’s made and how he has handled himself in pre-draft meetings with teams. Chief among those was a last-minute decision to skip the Sugar Bowl.

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/ironic-that-skipping-bowls-could-lower-stock-of-nfl-draft-prospects-like-georgias-deandre-baker

Of course Baker was the only CB drafted in the first round so go figure :noidea:

st33lersguy

04-27-2019, 05:14 PM

He also will challenge Conner for carries. Samuels will be the 3rd down back he is actually fit for and meant to be.

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Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe if the Steelers actually used their backup RBS

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue

04-27-2019, 05:28 PM

Maybe if the Steelers actually used their backup RBS Haha Tomlin will at least use him as his short yardage back. My honest opinion I think he is better then Conner.

pczach

04-27-2019, 05:44 PM

LOL! Did any of you guys watch Benny Snell in college this past season? He may jump over Samuels to the RB2 spot.

I've seen him play a bunch. The kid plays HARD. Breaks a ton of tackles. Finishes every run.

He isn't a dynamic player, but I'm interested to see how he can develop with NFL coaching. He is a GREAT short-yardage runner. That is not a backhanded compliment. If you need a yard, Benny can get it for you.

I can't wait to see how he develops, what weight he plays at, if he can improve his quickness, how much more effective he can be in the passing game, etc.....

polamalubeast

04-27-2019, 05:44 PM

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polamalubeast

04-27-2019, 07:34 PM

Steelers Football!!!

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steelreserve

04-27-2019, 08:11 PM

Never hurts to have a stocky guy who's hard to bring down.

I wouldn't have put RB high on the list of needs, but really once you get into the bottom half of the draft, 90% of it is who's available that you think is any good at all.

hawaiiansteeler

04-27-2019, 08:46 PM

Pittsburgh Steelers: Benny Snell, RB, Kentucky B Grade

Benny Snell was once slotted in the second round of my mock drafts, but I dropped him because teams had speed concerns about him. However, Snell is a very tough runner who could have a nice NFL career. I think he's a bit redundant with James Conner, but he's a fine choice.

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftgrades4.php

teegre

04-28-2019, 07:41 AM

There is an imagine of him on Twitter (I don’t know how to post tweets) holding up a Bell jersey and saying: “Ready to wear #26.”

That would be great!!!

stillers4me

04-28-2019, 07:52 AM

There is an imagine of him on Twitter (I don’t know how to post tweets) holding up a Bell jersey and saying: “Ready to wear #26.”

That would be great!!!

Here's the pic. This kid is cocky as hell.....time will tell if that's good or bad. Apparently, 26 is his college number, BTW.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58378178_3242837305742434_7642972183873978368_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=821f6f0af17b4e19b29635d936d15598&oe=5D2DFF8D

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FYI..........the instructions for posting tweets is in the Help forum!

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/28958-How-to-insert-Tweets-into-forum-posts

stillers4me

04-28-2019, 08:01 AM

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stillers4me

04-29-2019, 05:37 AM

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polamalubeast

04-29-2019, 06:13 AM

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86WARD

04-29-2019, 07:31 AM

Why are they comparing Snell to Bell? He’s been gone for two years now? It’s irrelevant. Why not compare to Bettis, Barry Foster, Leroy Thompson, Rich Erenberg, Franco Harris?

El-Gonzo Jackson

04-29-2019, 08:30 AM

Why are they comparing Snell to Bell? He’s been gone for two years now? It’s irrelevant. Why not compare to Bettis, Barry Foster, Leroy Thompson, Rich Erenberg, Franco Harris?

Exactly. That is terrible. Bell is arguably a top 5 RB in the NFL. Benny Snell will likely be 2nd or 3rd string on the Steelers.

Maybe there is a comparison to Bam Morris or Frank Pollard, but not Bell.

AtlantaDan

04-29-2019, 08:51 AM

Exactly. That is terrible. Bell is arguably a top 5 RB in the NFL. Benny Snell will likely be 2nd or 3rd string on the Steelers.

Maybe there is a comparison to Bam Morris or Frank Pollard, but not Bell.

And Bell became an All Pro running back after he dropped his college weight (as opposed to Eddie Lacy who instead got fat)

Bell, who played at close to 250 pounds in college, showed up at Steelers' rookie minicamp a week after they drafted him and weighed in at 244 pounds.Bell dropped about 20 more pounds over the course of his rookie season and is currently at the weight that, to paraphrase Tomlin, obviously agrees with him.
"He ended last year in the mid-220s. He reported back this year in the mid-220s," Tomlin said. "He has shown he is committed to maintaining a level of conditioning over the course of a 12-month calendar and he has taken off from there. I think his play is reflecting that."

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/141900/steelers-leveon-bell-shows-less-is-more

743504435758960640
Officially listed at 244 pounds as a rookie, Bell was about 20 pounds lighter during the past two seasons, and now, wants to be even trimmer heading into what is a contract year for the 24-year-old running back.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/leveon-bell-could-get-down-to-210-pounds-for-2016-season
(https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/leveon-bell-could-get-down-to-210-pounds-for-2016-season/)

polamalubeast

04-29-2019, 10:10 AM

Yes, the comparison with Bell was stupid, but I would not be surprised if Snell has a bigger role than many think in his rookie season ...

He could be used in the short yard situation and in the red zone .... Tomlin must avoid that our starting RB is not overused once again.

GoSlash27

04-29-2019, 11:17 AM

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this kid's 'suddenness and glide' yet. That's the former Steelers HB Snell reminds me of. Big, runs downhill, hard to tackle.

hawaiiansteeler

04-29-2019, 03:14 PM

Why are they comparing Snell to Bell?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190427/708e8c4eb4287d18eb9c3db7ec2bbb90.jpg

DesertSteel

04-29-2019, 03:30 PM

I'm not gonna be the guy who says Snell can't be as good as Bell... Plenty of guys enter the league without much fanfare and leave with a bust in Canton.

El-Gonzo Jackson

04-29-2019, 06:26 PM

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this kid's 'suddenness and glide' yet. That's the former Steelers HB Snell reminds me of. Big, runs downhill, hard to tackle.

Probably because Snell can never match the glide of Redman. Still, it appears Snell refuses to go down on a tackle the way Redman did, so maybe that combination of Suddeness and Glide wasn't such a magic formula.:noidea:

Born2Steel

04-29-2019, 07:15 PM

The first time Snell 'Busses' over some 'Urlacher' he will become a fan favorite and get the love.

GoSlash27

04-30-2019, 06:12 AM

Probably because Snell can never match the glide of Redman. Still, it appears Snell refuses to go down on a tackle the way Redman did, so maybe that combination of Suddeness and Glide wasn't such a magic formula.:noidea:

That tendency to not go down can also be a double- edged sword, as it was with Redman. Let's hope Snell doesn't have ball control problems.

DesertSteel

04-30-2019, 05:52 PM

FYI - this is ESPN Insiders scouting report on Snell:

https://i.postimg.cc/3wHPtmrn/snell.png (https://postimages.org/)

NCSteeler

04-30-2019, 06:02 PM

So they drafted a three yards and a cloud of dust RB with little explosive traits in the era of warp speed pass wacky football?

Honestly I don’t know anything about the guy.League is turning around a bit. Defense light and fast. NE proved that at the end of the season last year. It's all cyclic

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 09:17 AM

Mojouw

05-01-2019, 09:37 AM

Hopefully in addition to each guy have a "specialty" each can develop into a well rounded viable 3 down back - at least for stretches. One thing I HATE about backfields by committee is that it can tip your hand to the defense. Like Legarratte Blount didn't ever come in to games to catch passes or pass block. Just as James White aint in there to run the ball. I think you can catch defenses over-committing to a formation or alignment when your RB is a viable run and pass option. Hopefully, Snell can develop that part of his game.

One thing I read that cinched the pick for me from the Steelers POV was that Snell is apparently a pretty advanced and good pass protector. They demand that from their backs.

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-01-2019, 09:41 AM

We need to pay to see the entire article but finally the steelers could share the work with 3 RBs, which would be a good idea, if they are all good.

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As Conner would be our number 1, but if I would be the steelers, Samuel would be on the field on the passing down and Snell would be on the field on the short yard situation.

Tomlin needs to keep the RBs fresh for the entire season.

I hope this holds true during the season. If you give a competitive power back some touches, behind an O line with 3 pro bowl players...it can create a culture of physicality and bully mentality on offense. If you let Ben's caddy call plays that ignore the run game, then it creates a passive mindset of retreat blocking and taking what the defense gives you.

Lots of offseason talk, becomes irrelevant when the season starts.

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 09:49 AM

I would be surprised if Ben is still the leader in pass attempts this year or close to that because of the loss of Antonio Brown and also because we have more than one RB that we can trust in their roster.

No reason to have a crazy number of pass attempts again unless our defense often has games like the game against the Chiefs or we are often in catch-up football, which is not a recipe for success.

Mojouw

05-01-2019, 10:27 AM

I hope this holds true during the season. If you give a competitive power back some touches, behind an O line with 3 pro bowl players...it can create a culture of physicality and bully mentality on offense. If you let Ben's caddy call plays that ignore the run game, then it creates a passive mindset of retreat blocking and taking what the defense gives you.

Lots of offseason talk, becomes irrelevant when the season starts.

What? Is this 1935?

Did the Chiefs, Pats, Colts, Saints, Eagles, Tampa Bay or insert other Pass Wacky Team Here just sit back and take what the defense gave them? From my foggy memory of the 2018 season games, almost all of those teams aggressively and relentlessly attacked defenses.

It is true that run blocking your opponents into oblivion can happen. It is also true that you can pass them into the abyss as well. Pass rushing is tiring. Chasing pass catchers across the field or down the sidelines is exhausting. Stressing your brain pre-snap to try and figure out what route combinations you need to line up and cover is taxing as all get out. It is, for me, about possessing the ball and being effective with those possessions. If you have multiple point scoring drives in a quarter or a half, you are going to gas and demoralize a defense whether you did it with the power-I or 5 wides.

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 10:46 AM

Edman

05-01-2019, 11:05 AM

It is also true that you can pass them into the abyss as well.

It also helps to have an efficient quarterback who doesn't turn the ball over. The Steelers didn't have that last year.

The Colts, Chiefs, Pats, Saints, and Eagles didn't have a quarterback who lead the league in interceptions. It's true you can pass a team to oblivion, but your quarterback has to be on top of his game too. Ben's bad decisions and greasefire performances are becoming more frequent.

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-01-2019, 11:08 AM

What? Is this 1935?

Did the Chiefs, Pats, Colts, Saints, Eagles, Tampa Bay or insert other Pass Wacky Team Here just sit back and take what the defense gave them? From my foggy memory of the 2018 season games, almost all of those teams aggressively and relentlessly attacked defenses.

It is true that run blocking your opponents into oblivion can happen. It is also true that you can pass them into the abyss as well. Pass rushing is tiring. Chasing pass catchers across the field or down the sidelines is exhausting. Stressing your brain pre-snap to try and figure out what route combinations you need to line up and cover is taxing as all get out. It is, for me, about possessing the ball and being effective with those possessions. If you have multiple point scoring drives in a quarter or a half, you are going to gas and demoralize a defense whether you did it with the power-I or 5 wides.

Have you ever put you hand in the dirt on a football field, either on the offensive line or the defensive line? At any level of football, as it really doesn't matter to me? I ask the question to try and understand your point of reference.

In my experience, getting run on is much more tiring and demoralizing for a front 7 defensively, than having to chase down QB in the pass rush. Defensively you can benefit from a poor throw, dropped pass, offensive holding call....whereas in the run game, you can offensively grind down a defense based upon primarily effort and technique. From an offensive stand point, you can enjoy the same success by moving the defense and dominating, but also see a dropped pass, poor throw, tipped ball or holding call derail your drive and the effort seems wasted.

I'm not advocating run heavy offense, but definitely committing to the run game more than there was last season. Lets look at some playoff performances for perspective:

-AFCCG...NE(Sony Michel-113 yds rushing on 23 carries, Burkhead 41 yds rushing on 12 carries) vs KC
-Super Bowl....NE( Sony Michel 129 yds rushing on 24 carries)
-NFC Semifina…..Rams(CJ Anderson 123 yds rushing on 23 carries, Todd Gurley 115 yds on 16 carries) vs DAL
- NFCCG...……….Rams (77 yds on 26 carries TEAM) vs. NO
- AFC Semifinal KC( 180 yds on 33 carries TEAM) vs. IND

So we see that teams like the Rams, Patriots, Chiefs all committed to the run game substantially in the playoffs and mostly with success. This was not the 1935 playoffs, but rather the 2019 playoffs.

In all of those games, I bet the team's offensive line would rather play a 5th quarter, more than the opposition defensive line (with the exception of NO, as they got robbed by the no call) because they likely had the mindset they can physically move the line of scrimmage on the ground. Having a physical run game isn't archaic or a bad thing, or 1935 strategy. Its good football and it worked in the 2019 playoffs.

Born2Steel

05-01-2019, 11:26 AM

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-01-2019, 11:36 AM

Also the pats were very balanced last season ....3rd in rushing attempts in the regular season, 5th in Rushings yards and in the playoffs, the pats had more than 150 rushing yards in each of their game.

The Pats seemed to do OK with commitment to the run game …..didn't they?

Too bad the Steelers don't have a good offensive line like the Patriots do.....oh, wait a second.:huh:

Mojouw

05-01-2019, 11:37 AM

Never played. I'm fine with like 15-25 rushes a game. But too many have visions of 30+ attempts dancing in their heads.

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-01-2019, 12:00 PM

Never played. I'm fine with like 15-25 rushes a game. But too many have visions of 30+ attempts dancing in their heads.

I don't think you put a number on it, but IMO you have to commit to the run game and not abandon it before you get a chance to establish it or if its working.

Even the great Coach McVay and the Rams ran the ball 48 times against the Cowboys in a 30-22 playoff win. Again, that was in 2019.

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 12:06 PM

If Ben leads once again the league in pass attempts without Antonio Brown, it's a horrible idea...I mean, the Pats lost some weapon in their offense last year and Gronk was not the same player but they are adjusted to running more often .. Can our OC, Tomlin and Ben do the same thing? ... I hope!

The pats have run 48 times vs 46 passes against the Chiefs on the road in the AFC title game ..... And if you just look at the steelers, in 2016 we had no weapon after Antonio Brown in our receivers, but we run more often with Bell and they were in the AFC title game.

You can win even when your offense is based on the run ... The important thing is that your passing game is not anemic.

hawaiiansteeler

05-01-2019, 02:05 PM

Kevin Colbert: Each of our running backs will make the other ones better

Posted by Josh Alper on May 1, 2019

The Steelers have cycled through a number of running backs since Mike Tomlin became the head coach in 2007, but the identity of the back hasn’t done much to impact the way the team has used them.

While many other teams have employed committees to handle the backfield duties, the Steelers have subscribed to an approach that sees one back get the lion’s share of the carries. Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall and Le'Veon Bell have all had turns in that role and James Conner was in the same position last year, but things may be different in 2019.

to read rest of article:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/05/01/kevin-colbert-each-one-of-our-running-backs-will-make-the-other-ones-better/

Mojouw

05-01-2019, 02:11 PM

I don't think you put a number on it, but IMO you have to commit to the run game and not abandon it before you get a chance to establish it or if its working.

Even the great Coach McVay and the Rams ran the ball 48 times against the Cowboys in a 30-22 playoff win. Again, that was in 2019.

Quick look at the drive chart and I see a ton of 2nd half rushes. And by a super quick skim, At worst at 50/50 split run/pass in the first half. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201901120ram.htm#all_vis_drives I think it might be closer to 60/40, but I don't care to count that closely. So they drove taht attempts number up in the 2nd half when they were leading by as many as 16 points for much of the 3rd and 4th quarter.

These counting stats pulled all out of any context just don't do much to support either side. I can play too. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2018/gamelog/

Anytime they rush over 20 times, they win! I found the magic #! 20 or more rush attempts per game equals winning. So the first 20 plays should be all runs and the team will magically win the game, we've cracked the code!

It could be that they rushed all those times in wins because they had a lead and they didn't rush in the losses because they were trying to score more points. Weird. It is almost like passing is the most effective way to move the ball in the NFL. It is almost as if you need to run the ball effectively at specific points, but a run heavy offense isn't gonna get you far...like say the Tennessee Titans or the Washington Redskins or the NY Giants or the Jaguars...

Some of those low rushing attempt games are shockingly correlated with the period in time where Connor was breaking down and Samuels was far from ready to carry the load and Ridley was being Ridley. Again, shocking enough context matters. Drill down into the drive charts (Craic has an excellent posting somewhere regarding the Chargers game) and often it was not a philosophical decision to turn away from the run, it was forced by penalties and/or negative plays placing the team on the wrong side of the chains. Pretty darn hard to want to rush the ball on 2nd 15 or 3rd and 8.

Should they attempt to run the ball more in 2019? Probably. Maybe. I don't know. But seeking balance for the sake of balance is just not necessary. Achieving balance based on game flow, situation, and scenarios -- that is key. I don't care if they run it 10 times or 100 times. Just be effective and efficient when you do.

Fire Goodell

05-01-2019, 02:12 PM

With defenses getting smaller and faster, I can see how power running can make a comeback

Mojouw

05-01-2019, 02:13 PM

With defenses getting smaller and faster, I can see how power running can make a comeback

No that I can understand and support. If you want to run against a specific alignment or player grouping because you think you can beat up on it, great. BUt doing it just to do it...

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 02:32 PM

Quick look at the drive chart and I see a ton of 2nd half rushes. And by a super quick skim, At worst at 50/50 split run/pass in the first half. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201901120ram.htm#all_vis_drives I think it might be closer to 60/40, but I don't care to count that closely. So they drove taht attempts number up in the 2nd half when they were leading by as many as 16 points for much of the 3rd and 4th quarter.

These counting stats pulled all out of any context just don't do much to support either side. I can play too. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2018/gamelog/

Anytime they rush over 20 times, they win! I found the magic #! 20 or more rush attempts per game equals winning. So the first 20 plays should be all runs and the team will magically win the game, we've cracked the code!

It could be that they rushed all those times in wins because they had a lead and they didn't rush in the losses because they were trying to score more points. Weird. It is almost like passing is the most effective way to move the ball in the NFL. It is almost as if you need to run the ball effectively at specific points, but a run heavy offense isn't gonna get you far...like say the Tennessee Titans or the Washington Redskins or the NY Giants or the Jaguars...

Some of those low rushing attempt games are shockingly correlated with the period in time where Connor was breaking down and Samuels was far from ready to carry the load and Ridley was being Ridley. Again, shocking enough context matters. Drill down into the drive charts (Craic has an excellent posting somewhere regarding the Chargers game) and often it was not a philosophical decision to turn away from the run, it was forced by penalties and/or negative plays placing the team on the wrong side of the chains. Pretty darn hard to want to rush the ball on 2nd 15 or 3rd and 8.

Should they attempt to run the ball more in 2019? Probably. Maybe. I don't know. But seeking balance for the sake of balance is just not necessary. Achieving balance based on game flow, situation, and scenarios -- that is key. I don't care if they run it 10 times or 100 times. Just be effective and efficient when you do.

The context is important but we must admit that the steelers were not commited to run the football last year.Teams like the Jags, Titans, Giants and Reskins, their problems were that they had no passing offense ... so of course you can not win when your offense have a anemic passing offense.But we had examples like the pats (48 run vs Chiefs in an overtime win) or like the Ravens with Lamarr Jackson or the seahawks who were a first run team and they had a lot of success.

The only time the steelers were committed to run the football a lot in the last few years were in the second half of the season in 2016 and they won 9 games in a row and they were in the AFC title game...I do not think they would have won 9 games in a row if they would not have been committed to run the football, especially since our weapon after Brown and Bell were awful.

And I do not think we're going to have much success this year if they're too pass happy without Antonio Brown .... they can be successful if they are committed to run the football and yes you can win that way in the NFL even today.

I can understand why we have not running the ball a lot last year since the steelers were thin at the RB position but in 2019, no excuse for not be commited to run the football.

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-01-2019, 02:34 PM

Some of those low rushing attempt games are shockingly correlated with the period in time where Connor was breaking down and Samuels was far from ready to carry the load and Ridley was being Ridley. Again, shocking enough context matters. Drill down into the drive charts (Craic has an excellent posting somewhere regarding the Chargers game) and often it was not a philosophical decision to turn away from the run, it was forced by penalties and/or negative plays placing the team on the wrong side of the chains. Pretty darn hard to want to rush the ball on 2nd 15 or 3rd and 8.

.

What about when it is 2nd and 5? In the 4th quarter the score was 23-23 and the Steelers rush the ball on 1st and 10 for 5 yards, then pass-incomplete, pass-incomplete and kick away for Chargers to score another TD. That is how the game that was 23-23 went to 30-23 for the Chargers. If you have a 23-7 lead at half time and only rush the ball 17 total times a game....that is a recipe for a comeback.

That is part of the philosophical lousy playcalling that Fichtner had, which cost the Steelers one extra win (at least) and a trip to the postseason. Defend the "new NFL" offenses and new offensive geniuses if you want, but there is, was and never will be anything wrong with running the football behind an O line that consists of 3 pro bowl players. The Super Bowl champions this year proved that again.

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 02:36 PM

1123667774868533248

hawaiiansteeler

05-01-2019, 02:38 PM

I can understand why we have not running the ball a lot last year since the steelers were thin at the RB position but in 2019, no excuse for not be commited to run the football.

I think the drafting of Benny Snell signifies a commitment to run the ball more this season. makes total sense as we lost AB and don't want Ben to lead the league in ints again...

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 02:41 PM

I think the drafting of Benny Snell signifies a commitment to run the ball more this season. makes total sense as we lost AB and don't want Ben to lead the league in ints again...

I hope that Ben, Tomlin and Fichtner think the same thing.

hawaiiansteeler

05-01-2019, 02:50 PM

Colbert Hints At RB By Committee Approach In 2019: ‘We Need To Have More Help For James And Jaylen’

By Dave Bryan
Posted on May 1, 2019

For at least the immediate future, it appears as though the Pittsburgh Steelers won’t run a single running back of theirs until his proverbial wheels fall off. In fact, judging by what Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert said earlier this week during an interview on 105 The X Radio, the Steelers might even use a running back by committee approach in 2019 consisting of James Conner, Jaylen Samuels and Benny Snell Jr., who was drafted by the team in the fourth-round on Saturday out of Kentucky.

“In Benny Snell’s case, he’s a good football player that knows how to play the game,” Colbert said during his recent radio interview. “He played it at a high level at one of the best conferences in college football and he was successful. So, hopefully he can bring some of that to us because we need to have more help for James and Jaylen.”

to read rest of article:

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/05/colbert-hints-at-rb-by-committee-approach-in-2019-we-need-to-have-more-help-for-james-and-jaylen/

Edman

05-01-2019, 04:53 PM

What about when it is 2nd and 5? In the 4th quarter the score was 23-23 and the Steelers rush the ball on 1st and 10 for 5 yards, then pass-incomplete, pass-incomplete and kick away for Chargers to score another TD. That is how the game that was 23-23 went to 30-23 for the Chargers. If you have a 23-7 lead at half time and only rush the ball 17 total times a game....that is a recipe for a comeback.

That is part of the philosophical lousy playcalling that Fichtner had, which cost the Steelers one extra win (at least) and a trip to the postseason. Defend the "new NFL" offenses and new offensive geniuses if you want, but there is, was and never will be anything wrong with running the football behind an O line that consists of 3 pro bowl players. The Super Bowl champions this year proved that again.

When the Steelers abandoned the run, it made everything much easier for the Chargers. No threat of a running game means easier clock management, easier defense, and more momentum. The Chargers D didn't have to worry about the run, the Steelers refused to run, and just sit back and blanket the passing lanes. It gave the Chargers life, when they have a quarterback who is Top 10-15 in the league, it was absolute short-sighted arrogance on part of Fichtner.

The Chargers D completely shut down the Steelers O in the second half. The Steelers didn't score again until it was 30-23, but by then it was too late.

NCSteeler

05-01-2019, 05:11 PM

With a stable of Conner, Snell, and Samuels, I am an advocate of run first run often. Use JuJu and McDonald to keep the middle soft defensively and pound the holy hell out of the ball. Time of possession, less offensive snaps for the other team, become that team they have to put in a different game plan for. I doubt this is how the Steelers plan to play this season but it is how I would approach it. Until a team stops us.Totally agree. Run hard against small defenses u til someone figures it out then be ready to open it up when you need too and surprise a few teams.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Fire Goodell

05-01-2019, 05:15 PM

Watched some of the kid's videos and wow, the dude is a tank lol. Probably the most powerful back we've had since the Bus

Wonder if they're going for a more blue-collar identity on offense? Conner, Juju, Washington, and McDonald aren't flashy players, but all are physical players at their position. Adding someone like Snell, even more so.

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 05:17 PM

Not just the Chargers games ..... The gameplan in Denver was also very questionable...

Fire Goodell

05-01-2019, 05:20 PM

During our mid-season winning streak, a huge reason why was Conner's success. Plain and simply the team's chances of winning go up a lot when we run effectively.

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 05:23 PM

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 05:29 PM

During our mid-season winning streak, a huge reason why was Conner's success. Plain and simply the team's chances of winning go up a lot when we run effectively.

I agree

Maybe the steelers used less the running game after the game against the panthers because we do not have much depth at this position and they did not want Conner to finish the season with 350-400 rushing attempts. ....Of course the Conner's injury did not help

But no excuse to not be commited with the running game in 2019 with 3 possible good RB.

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-01-2019, 05:44 PM

During our mid-season winning streak, a huge reason why was Conner's success. Plain and simply the team's chances of winning go up a lot when we run effectively.

But, was Conner just getting rushing yards after the Steelers had already put up a lead due to the fantastic passing offense of Fichtner, that was well executed by Ben? Seems to be a narrative here that modern day NFL teams gain rushing yards only when the passing game has already put up enough points in the first half of the game, in order to win. :noidea:

AtlantaDan

05-01-2019, 05:52 PM

I hope that Ben, Tomlin and Fichtner think the same thing.

Assuming Fichtner has a vote he has given his proxy to Ben

Just as AJRII pressed several years ago for high draft picks starting on defense sooner he may say Ben leading the league in passing yards again should not be encouraged

polamalubeast

05-01-2019, 06:04 PM

Assuming Fichtner has a vote he has given his proxy to Ben

Just as AJRII pressed several years ago for high draft picks starting on defense sooner he may say Ben leading the league in passing yards again should not be encouraged

Tomlin needs to tell his QB and OC to run the ball more often!

I do not think Cowher would accept that his team is first in pass attempts and 31st in rush attempts in a season where the team misses the playoffs.I do not think Fitchner is a horrible OC, but sometimes Tomlin needs to tell Fitchner to run the ball more often!

You can run more often without handcuffed your offense.

Mojouw

05-01-2019, 09:39 PM

But, was Conner just getting rushing yards after the Steelers had already put up a lead due to the fantastic passing offense of Fichtner, that was well executed by Ben? Seems to be a narrative here that modern day NFL teams gain rushing yards only when the passing game has already put up enough points in the first half of the game, in order to win. :noidea:

No. You are just being willingly obtuse here, right?

I have posted (I can only assume this was aimed my way because I am the only one arguing against running the ball) repeatedly in this forum repeatedly that X number or rush attempts or Y number of rushing yards is not the CAUSE of winning football games it is CORRELATED with winning football games. Basically, smarter people than me have crunched all the football data they can get their grubby little mitts on and realized that you pass the ball to get a lead and run the ball the to hold the lead. Obviously that is not 100% only passing plays nor is the other end 100% only rushing plays -- but I believe you can grasp the concept.

I have posted a literal garden of links to the detailed and highly engaging (at least I think) studies and discussion that tear down the myth that you need to run the ball to win in the NFL.

But that isn't what you or anyone else wants to talk about right? Just about how anyone who isn't Tomlin or the other Steelers coaches isn't as smart as the rest of us who know that running the ball and imposing your will is a key football thing.

Shoes

05-01-2019, 09:44 PM

Well, we should be set at RB with this addition.

Edman

05-01-2019, 10:48 PM

No. You are just being willingly obtuse here, right?

I have posted (I can only assume this was aimed my way because I am the only one arguing against running the ball) repeatedly in this forum repeatedly that X number or rush attempts or Y number of rushing yards is not the CAUSE of winning football games it is CORRELATED with winning football games. Basically, smarter people than me have crunched all the football data they can get their grubby little mitts on and realized that you pass the ball to get a lead and run the ball the to hold the lead. Obviously that is not 100% only passing plays nor is the other end 100% only rushing plays -- but I believe you can grasp the concept.

I have posted a literal garden of links to the detailed and highly engaging (at least I think) studies and discussion that tear down the myth that you need to run the ball to win in the NFL.

But that isn't what you or anyone else wants to talk about right? Just about how anyone who isn't Tomlin or the other Steelers coaches isn't as smart as the rest of us who know that running the ball and imposing your will is a key football thing.

How were the Steelers unable to beat a Chargers team in a game in which they held a 23-7 lead? They followed the "data" and ignored the running game (6 rushing attempts total, you know, since rushing attempts don't matter according to the data) in the second half and were mostly shut out.

Mojouw

05-01-2019, 11:53 PM

How were the Steelers unable to beat a Chargers team in a game in which they held a 23-7 lead? They followed the "data" and ignored the running game (6 rushing attempts total, you know, since rushing attempts don't matter according to the data) in the second half and were mostly shut out.

That and I don't think the defense forced a punt for an entire half. Prolly doesn't matter though. Didn't the Chargers also win that game by passing? Also prolly doesn't matter.

Let's play Marty ball. Should be a blast. You all are the same people who moan about turtling and not being aggressive every game day thread. But now we have a whole thread dedicated to going conservative? This all seems legit.

86WARD

05-02-2019, 04:30 AM

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 07:10 AM

Mojouw

05-02-2019, 08:10 AM

On this link, We can see if we adjust the quarter (1-2) and the down (1) that the pass-run ratio in the first half of the games on the first down and 10.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/situational-run-pass-ratios--off-.html

This is where we see if a team tries to be balanced or not and the steelers have attempting a pass at 64% on first down and 10 in the first half.....which is the highest in the NFL ..... it's way too much.This is one of the reasons why our YPA (6.5) is one of the lowest in the NFL in this situation because the steelers are very predictable.

The ideal would be that the steelers are around 50% in this down like the Pats,Chargers and the Rams.

Isn't that same graphic showing that despite the supposed vaunted nature of the Steelers offensive line and RBs, that they average 0.2 yards less than the league average and 0.5-0.8 less than teams like the Rams and Pats on those first and second quarter 1st and 10 runs?

So what people are arguing for is to take a play (passing) that gains 7.2 yards per attempt and has a 52% success rate and swap it for a play that gains 4.3 per attempt and has a success rate of 49%? Are you guys also fans of really long contested 2 point jumpshots in basketball?

This is all going to be moot anyways. The transition off of a pass heavy offense was started the moment they traded AB.

Really interesting website by the way, thanks for posting it.

Born2Steel

05-02-2019, 08:50 AM

When did Conner suffer his high ankle sprain last season. I know he missed some games then came back limited against the Bengals in week 17. I think he was out for weeks 14,15,and 16 then only had a handful of plays week 17. His absence left Samuels who did well but is not a feature RB, and the fumbling RB or Nix. I believe Snell puts another feature RB that can help the run game stay healthy and hopefully hold on to the ball. So there is THAT heading into this season.

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 08:57 AM

Isn't that same graphic showing that despite the supposed vaunted nature of the Steelers offensive line and RBs, that they average 0.2 yards less than the league average and 0.5-0.8 less than teams like the Rams and Pats on those first and second quarter 1st and 10 runs?

So what people are arguing for is to take a play (passing) that gains 7.2 yards per attempt and has a 52% success rate and swap it for a play that gains 4.3 per attempt and has a success rate of 49%? Are you guys also fans of really long contested 2 point jumpshots in basketball?

This is all going to be moot anyways. The transition off of a pass heavy offense was started the moment they traded AB.

Really interesting website by the way, thanks for posting it.

No, but I think the steelers would have more success(and less interception) with the passing game if they would use more the running game in first down.

No, I'm not a fan of the long contested 2 in the NBA, but I'm also not a fan of a team that only attempts 3 points, even if somethings it does not work like the Houston Rockets last year when they missed 27 3 points in a row in the game 7.It was just awful to watch!

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-02-2019, 09:30 AM

No, but I think the steelers would have more success(and less interception) with the passing game if they would use more the running game in first down.

No, I'm not a fan of the long contested 2 in the NBA, but I'm also not a fan of a team that only attempts 3 points, even if somethings it does not work like the Houston Rockets last year when they missed 27 3 points in a row in the game 7.It was just awful to watch!

I hate when a team has a 2 on 1 break and pulls up at the 3 point line and misses the shot. The love of the 3 point line has eroded the simple idea that you should be able to finish a 2 on 1 break with a layup, dunk and maybe and-1.

Its similar in football where the love of the pass drives idiots to throw 2 incomplete passes on 2nd and 5 and 3rd and 5, rather than just run the damn ball behind a $100 million O line. SMH

Edman

05-02-2019, 09:40 AM

That and I don't think the defense forced a punt for an entire half. Prolly doesn't matter though. Didn't the Chargers also win that game by passing? Also prolly doesn't matter.

Let's play Marty ball. Should be a blast. You all are the same people who moan about turtling and not being aggressive every game day thread. But now we have a whole thread dedicated to going conservative? This all seems legit.

The Chargers had more rushing attempts than the Steelers in the second half (13 to 6). Despite trailing by 16 to start the second half and all signs pointing to LA abandoning the run game. Rivers (36) threw significantly less than Ben (45). Rivers didn't even hit 300 yards passing.

The Steelers followed the data, threw the ball and ignored the running game, yet the team that ran more still beat them after being down by more than two touchdowns. If running the football/rushing attempts is a myth, how was this possible?

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 09:47 AM

The Chargers had more rushing attempts than the Steelers in the second half (13 to 6). Despite being behind by 16 to start the second half and all signs pointing to there being no reason to run the ball.

The Steelers followed the data, threw the ball and ignored the running game, yet the team that ran more still beat them after being down 16. If running the football is a myth, how was this possible? You haven't explained that.

And the Chargers have not abandoned the running game despite having had very little success in the first half and Gordon was out for this game.

If the steelers would have been in this situation, Ben would have attempted at least 60 passes.

- - - Updated - - -

1123959804555407363

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-02-2019, 10:17 AM

The Chargers had more rushing attempts than the Steelers in the second half (13 to 6). Despite trailing by 16 to start the second half and all signs pointing to LA abandoning the run game. Rivers (36) threw significantly less than Ben (45). Rivers didn't even hit 300 yards passing.

The Steelers followed the data, threw the ball and ignored the running game, yet the team that ran more still beat them after being down by more than two touchdowns. If running the football/rushing attempts is a myth, how was this possible?

WOW, I never bothered to break down the attempts per half. I just remember watching the game and seeing total abandonment of the run game and the implosion of a big lead.

Remember the Wild Card comeback vs the Browns around 2000? That was totally the same kind of situation, because the Browns and that 5-wide offense could never run the football enough to close out a game. I still don't buy the notion that Fichtner will not be the same idiot playcaller this season.

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 11:22 AM

The only thing I ask to the steelers is to be more committed to the running game...You can win this way .... if we look at the 2016 season in their 9 games winning streak, the steelers was running the ball 52% of the time in the first half on the first down.

With Antonio Brown gone, the steelers are going to have a bad season if they pass 60% of the time in this situation

If they are more balanced, the chances of success will be higher.

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 11:28 AM

For more details...

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/playcalling-tendencies.html

Shoes

05-02-2019, 11:32 AM

Didn't AJRII say he wanted to run the ball more a few years back? Balance it out.

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 11:34 AM

Didn't AJRII say he wanted to run the ball more a few years back?

It was after the 2009 season I think.

Born2Steel

05-02-2019, 11:36 AM

So are we saying Benny Snell was a good pick or should we have taken someone earlier? Or maybe think a Kamara type RB would be better?

Edman

05-02-2019, 12:16 PM

Let's play Marty ball. Should be a blast. You all are the same people who moan about turtling and not being aggressive every game day thread. But now we have a whole thread dedicated to going conservative? This all seems legit.

There's a discernable difference between Turtling and going away from what is working and attacking a teams' weakness.

Turtling is completely suffocating the offense in the Second Half with unimaginative playcalling. Running the ball or passing. If anything, you could say the Steelers turtled in the Chargers game by forcing the passing game and not making the clock an enemy of the Chargers. The Chargers didn't need to worry about the run game, not because they stopped it, but because the Steelers outright REFUSED to run and wanted to win by passing.

That kind of mentality is what cost Seattle a potential dynasty and made the Atlanta Falcons a meme.

It was after the 2009 season I think.

Another season where the Steelers collapsed down the stretch not unlike 2018.

Shoes

05-02-2019, 12:29 PM

It was after the 2009 season I think.

Wow, was it that long ago, I guess it was.

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-02-2019, 02:38 PM

So are we saying Benny Snell was a good pick or should we have taken someone earlier? Or maybe think a Kamara type RB would be better?

I think some see Snell as a throwback to a type of football that is deemed obsolete...despite the current Super Bowl Champions showing that a commitment to the run game does result in Championships.

Every Sunday I turn on the TV to see Winning Steelers Football...….not 40+ pass attempts per game. If Benny Snell getting some touches helps win games, then great. If I have to see the Steelers give up a 23-7 halftime lead just to pad some passing stats, then that's not winning football. Obviously.

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 02:55 PM

And when your running game is very good and you are commited to that, your passing game will have more explosive play like the CowherBall in 2004 and 2005 when Roethlisberger had 8.9 YPA in each year.

I'm not asking to be that, but just to be more balanced.Conner was at 4.5 YPC and Samuels at 4.6 in 2018, if Snell becomes a good player, no reason to not be balanced.

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 03:12 PM

I think some see Snell as a throwback to a type of football that is deemed obsolete...despite the current Super Bowl Champions showing that a commitment to the run game does result in Championships.

Every Sunday I turn on the TV to see Winning Steelers Football...….not 40+ pass attempts per game. If Benny Snell getting some touches helps win games, then great. If I have to see the Steelers give up a 23-7 halftime lead just to pad some passing stats, then that's not winning football. Obviously.

Interesting also to see that the last 3 super bowl champions were in the top 6 in rushing attempts despite than his teams had no pro bowl at the RB position.

Yes, it may be because they were often ahead, but it's not like the steelers were often behind in 2018 ...

Edman

05-02-2019, 03:44 PM

I think some see Snell as a throwback to a type of football that is deemed obsolete...despite the current Super Bowl Champions showing that a commitment to the run game does result in Championships.

And they have the best to play the position at Quarterback. According to some on here, the Patriots are just wasting his talent by not slinging the ball 30-40 times a game.

So are we saying Benny Snell was a good pick or should we have taken someone earlier? Or maybe think a Kamara type RB would be better?

Steelers RB depth has been average at best for the past few years. The backs behind Bell/Conner have been unreliable (Toussaint), Subpar (Ridley, Archer, Harris, Ben Tate), or Cancerous (Blount). To see them address the position after years of neglect may go a ways to helping the Steelers win again. That's just me though.

I don't know the slam-dunk strategy, but what I do know is that the 30 ppg, high-octane pass-first/run-whenever offense the Steelers have fielded through the 2010's has failed. With AB gone, I believe it's time for a return to Classic 90's-00's Steelers football.

Interesting also to see that the last 3 super bowl champions were in the top 6 in rushing attempts despite than his teams had no pro bowl at the RB position.

Of the Top 10 teams in rushing attempts in 2018, Eight of those teams made the playoffs, Five of those eight teams won playoff games, Three played in the conference championship, Two played in the Super Bowl, One is the Super Bowl Champion.

The bottom five teams in rushing attempts were the Cardinals, Giants, Falcons, the Steelers, and the Packers. All five missed the postseason, and four of them actually sucked. Four of these teams had a "Franchise QB" and didn't want "their talent" to go to waste.

GoSlash27

05-02-2019, 03:56 PM

I'm with the majority here. I have absolutely no misgivings about developing our power running game. It's just another weapon in the arsenal; one that will ultimately make our passing attack more effective.

polamalubeast

05-02-2019, 06:42 PM

I believe it's time for a return to Classic 90's-00's Steelers football.

Yeah!

More chance to see the Steelers winning with this strategy.Wanting to be the greatest show on turf was a horrible idea.

Born2Steel

05-02-2019, 08:27 PM

Seems that the majority likes the Snell pick. I like it too. I think he will be a good player for the Steelers. I don’t know if it means more rushing attempts or not or just to have a healthy RB so defenses have to play run. Either way a good pick.

polamalubeast

05-03-2019, 06:58 AM

1124268124629417984

Mojouw

05-03-2019, 09:21 AM

polamalubeast

05-03-2019, 10:00 AM

You guys get that the reason for the link between winning and rushing attempts is that the teams were winning, so they ran the ball more. That is what correlation is. The causation of all that rushing was WINNING THE GAME BY SCORING MORE POINTS.

Rushing attempts are not causal to winning. They are correlated with winning.

Look at the turnover margins and defensive stop rates for those same teams. Then look at the Steelers in the same stats. There are your causes. Not forcing punts and turnovers.

The fact is that the pass happy Steelers have won nothing special in the last few years and it was not because of the talent.

But if the steelers are more committed in the run game, they will have more success in the passing game .... Maybe not for the passing yards, but for efficiency like YPA, less interception and more big play.The steelers could have 3 good RBs, so they need to use them

Just to look at the Seattle Seahawks in the last few years...They were more commited to the running game than they were in 2017, and their offense was better in points scored, more big play in the passing game. Wilson had a 110 QB rating, so they were in the playoffs in 2018 after being out in 2017, despite losing several big names in defense.

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-03-2019, 10:25 AM

You guys get that the reason for the link between winning and rushing attempts is that the teams were winning, so they ran the ball more. That is what correlation is. The causation of all that rushing was WINNING THE GAME BY SCORING MORE POINTS.

Rushing attempts are not causal to winning. They are correlated with winning.

Look at the turnover margins and defensive stop rates for those same teams. Then look at the Steelers in the same stats. There are your causes. Not forcing punts and turnovers.

Using this logic can you please explain how these statistics apply to the Steelers 33-30 loss to the Chargers this season?

Forcing Punts---both the Steelers and Chargers had 4 punts each.
Turnovers-------Ben threw one INT in the 1st quarter that resulted in zero points. That was the only turnover of the game.

The Steelers lead 23-7 with 30 minutes to go in the game and then rushed the ball 6 times the entire 2nd half, compared to 13 rush attempts by the Chargers. You say "the teams were winning, so they ran the ball more". In this game the Steelers were winning, so the Chargers ran the ball more?

Mojouw

05-03-2019, 10:57 AM

Using this logic can you please explain how these statistics apply to the Steelers 33-30 loss to the Chargers this season?

Forcing Punts---both the Steelers and Chargers had 4 punts each.
Turnovers-------Ben threw one INT in the 1st quarter that resulted in zero points. That was the only turnover of the game.

The Steelers lead 23-7 with 30 minutes to go in the game and then rushed the ball 6 times the entire 2nd half, compared to 13 rush attempts by the Chargers. You say "the teams were winning, so they ran the ball more". In this game the Steelers were winning, so the Chargers ran the ball more?

Sure. Let's use one game to dissect in minute detail to explain ALL of NFL football. That seems like a legit way to think through things. Look, you can Google things as well as I can. I am through attempting to explain correlation versus causation to you. You have no interest in actually engaging with the overall idea. I am sure you are correct. If the Steelers would just run the ball more, they will magically win more games because that's how to play dominating punishing football that imposes your will on the other team. Cool. Can't wait to see you coaching an NFL team, since you cracked the code to winning games.

And before you twist this into a post where I am arguing to run the ball not at all or throw the ball more, or whatever - make sure to understand that all I am saying is that it doesn't matter whether you run or pass. What matters is you move the ball effectively and are ruthlessly efficient in each and every drive to maintain field position advantage, score points to force the other team to take risks and alter their gameplan, and limit the other teams times with the ball by forcing punts and turnovers. And the overall data from thousands of NFL games indicates that teams do that overwhelmingly with the pass and then run the ball when they put their opponent in a hole they can't get out of.

The Steelers didn't lose the Chargers game because they didn't hit some mystical benchmark of rushing attempts. They lost because they had too many drives end in punts not points, they forced not enough punts on defense, and they didn't force a turnover. If they complete those passes, extend drives, and score one more time, they win.

https://www.si.com/vault/1996/08/01/216733/reality-check-dr-z-debunks-pro-footballs-biggest-myths

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/1/3/16808842/seahawks-establish-the-run-myth-nfl-analytics

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/28/sports/football/demolishing-the-myth-and-establishing-the-pass.html

https://blog.minitab.com/blog/the-statistics-game/correlation-is-not-causation-why-running-the-football-doesnt-cause-you-to-win-games-in-the-nfl

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/FO-basics

polamalubeast

05-03-2019, 11:16 AM

The other is, when you use the run game more often, you're more likely to be more consistent ....

When you are too much pass happy, you can be hot and cold more often and it can cost games

Not a good idea to rely on a playe (Ben)too much even if he will be in the HOF.

- - - Updated - - -

1124344392943325195

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-03-2019, 11:23 AM

Sure. Let's use one game to dissect in minute detail to explain ALL of NFL football. That seems like a legit way to think through things. Look, you can Google things as well as I can. I am through attempting to explain correlation versus causation to you. You have no interest in actually engaging with the overall idea. I am sure you are correct. If the Steelers would just run the ball more, they will magically win more games because that's how to play dominating punishing football that imposes your will on the other team. Cool. Can't wait to see you coaching an NFL team, since you cracked the code to winning games.

And before you twist this into a post where I am arguing to run the ball not at all or throw the ball more, or whatever - make sure to understand that all I am saying is that it doesn't matter whether you run or pass. What matters is you move the ball effectively and are ruthlessly efficient in each and every drive to maintain field position advantage, score points to force the other team to take risks and alter their gameplan, and limit the other teams times with the ball by forcing punts and turnovers. And the overall data from thousands of NFL games indicates that teams do that overwhelmingly with the pass and then run the ball when they put their opponent in a hole they can't get out of.

The Steelers didn't lose the Chargers game because they didn't hit some mystical benchmark of rushing attempts. They lost because they had too many drives end in punts not points, they forced not enough punts on defense, and they didn't force a turnover. If they complete those passes, extend drives, and score one more time, they win.

https://www.si.com/vault/1996/08/01/216733/reality-check-dr-z-debunks-pro-footballs-biggest-myths

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/1/3/16808842/seahawks-establish-the-run-myth-nfl-analytics

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/28/sports/football/demolishing-the-myth-and-establishing-the-pass.html

https://blog.minitab.com/blog/the-statistics-game/correlation-is-not-causation-why-running-the-football-doesnt-cause-you-to-win-games-in-the-nfl

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/FO-basics

Moj, I am not looking to "twist this into a post", nor do I need a lecture on "correlation vs causation". I am a grown man, with an education that has been tested to be in the upper 15% of intelligence. While I appreciate many of your posts and viewpoints.....please save you not so subtle condescension for somebody else.

My opinions based upon my experience playing football, coaching highschool and youth football and watching football for over the past 30-40 years are:

1. Football is played on a field, not a spreadsheet or the world of advance metrics.

2. Football is a team game, where 1 or 2 players does not determine the outcome, its many more factors, players, coaches, etc. Games are not won and lost by one or 2 stats, but rather a collection of factors.

3. Successful teams still run the football successfully as part of an offense in 2019....not just 1935.

4. the addition of Benny Snell to James Conner at RB can lead to the Steelers successfully controlling the football in the run game and balancing an otherwise imbalanced 2018 offensive system.

Edman

05-03-2019, 11:24 AM

Let's use one game to dissect in minute detail to explain ALL of NFL football.

It's not one game, it's a trend. I repeat:

Of the Top 10 teams in rushing attempts in 2018, Eight of those teams made the playoffs, Five of those eight teams won playoff games, Three played in the conference championship, Two played in the Super Bowl. The bottom five teams in rushing attempts were the Cardinals, Giants, Falcons, the Steelers, and the Packers. All five missed the postseason, and four of them actually sucked.

If running the football is a myth, how was this possible?

Dan Marino would gladly trade his passing records and statistics for at least one ring. It was the Dan Marino show in Miami for years, yet he didn't win a thing.

Ask Aaron Rodgers how he feels sitting at one ring despite his MVP passing performances.

It doesn't matter how good your quarterback is, if you can't run the football, the quarterback will fail more often than win. Which is what happened to Ben and the Steelers last year.

Mojouw

05-03-2019, 12:43 PM

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-03-2019, 01:18 PM

Did you read any of the information provided? Or did you just reject it out of hand? With that upper 15% intelligence I'm guessing you didn't need to read it.

Also if you really want to get into a pissing match about measuring intellect, the pretty pieces of paper on my wall are going to win. But I wasn't trying to do that nor was my original posting any attempt at subtle condescension. I only pointed out that you have not addressed the correlation versus causation issue.

Again, I think you are interesting poster and don't know why you needed to take a football forum post so deeply personal.

I don't take anything in this forum as deeply personal. Nor do I care to engage in any form of "pissing match", whether its measured intellect, how much one can bench press or who's dad can beat up the other. I merely wanted to give you a baseline understanding of my age and knowledge, that I don't need to be condescended to....whether its on if the year is 1935, being implied that I need a lecture on causation vs. correlation or how I am trying to twist a conversation.

I merely expressed doubt that Randy Fichtner will use the running game in a way that can give the highly accomplished O line an opportunity to establish physicality and superiority up front and then you went down your single minded beliefs with regards to passing vs running and statistical analysis of such beliefs.

Perhaps you don't do it consciously, but rather its a subconscious desire to condescend to those who disagree with you. Or to those who don't share your love and affinity for statistical comparisons. The world is not black and white, nor only subject to quantitative analysis. Its different shades of grey and a lot more qualitative.

Mojouw

05-03-2019, 01:53 PM

I don't take anything in this forum as deeply personal. Nor do I care to engage in any form of "pissing match", whether its measured intellect, how much one can bench press or who's dad can beat up the other. I merely wanted to give you a baseline understanding of my age and knowledge, that I don't need to be condescended to....whether its on if the year is 1935, being implied that I need a lecture on causation vs. correlation or how I am trying to twist a conversation.

I merely expressed doubt that Randy Fichtner will use the running game in a way that can give the highly accomplished O line an opportunity to establish physicality and superiority up front and then you went down your single minded beliefs with regards to passing vs running and statistical analysis of such beliefs.

Perhaps you don't do it consciously, but rather its a subconscious desire to condescend to those who disagree with you. Or to those who don't share your love and affinity for statistical comparisons. The world is not black and white, nor only subject to quantitative analysis. Its different shades of grey and a lot more qualitative.

Kinda like you try and pin everything on your vast experience in youth football? I only repeated myself and presented the stats stuff, because you have yet to offer anything other than your belief that running the ball more frequently would alter the outcomes of games. I presented a fairly serious and specific argument that many question if that causal link is really true or if it is an oft cited but unsupported myth. Other than talking about one game in 2018, you did not appear to address any of the larger issues.

If you reject the idea, how do you explain the mountain of evidence that teams use the passing game to get a lead and the running game to maintain it. Therefore a high # (of course not all) rushing attempts in a given NFL week/season are later in games with the lead in hand? You have never directly addressed that with anything other than a belief that a high number of passing attempts somehow leads to losing games and a high number of rushing attempts makes teams win games.

And of course 2019 teams need to effectively run the ball. Myself nor anyone else has ever denied that. Yet you keep repeating the idea that I am somehow arguing that no one should ever be running the ball. While I think no one should ever punt once they pass their own 40, I have never said no one should run the ball. But you do need to do it well when you do it - something the Steelers often struggle with.

Mojouw

05-03-2019, 02:02 PM

It's not one game, it's a trend. I repeat:

Of the Top 10 teams in rushing attempts in 2018, Eight of those teams made the playoffs, Five of those eight teams won playoff games, Three played in the conference championship, Two played in the Super Bowl. The bottom five teams in rushing attempts were the Cardinals, Giants, Falcons, the Steelers, and the Packers. All five missed the postseason, and four of them actually sucked.

If running the football is a myth, how was this possible?

Dan Marino would gladly trade his passing records and statistics for at least one ring. It was the Dan Marino show in Miami for years, yet he didn't win a thing.

Ask Aaron Rodgers how he feels sitting at one ring despite his MVP passing performances.

It doesn't matter how good your quarterback is, if you can't run the football, the quarterback will fail more often than win. Which is what happened to Ben and the Steelers last year.

Because those teams were among the winningest teams in the league. Therefore, they rushed a great # of times late in games with the lead. That is the whole core tenet of the idea that winning and running are highly correlated. However, what remains a bit murkier at best is whether running the ball caused the teams to win. The examined evidence indicates that the majority of the time, it (running the ball) was not the cause of a team winning. Most points are scored through yardage gained through the air.

El-Gonzo Jackson

05-03-2019, 02:13 PM

Kinda like you try and pin everything on your vast experience in youth football?

And there you go again. Congrats on trying to minimize another persons point of view if its not the same as yours. :hatsoff:

I am honest when I state that I haven't coached higher level than highschool. I have attended many coaching clinics over the years where pro, college, highschool coaches have lectured and gained knowledge from them, in order to better coach the young men that I will coach. But of course you like to point out "youth football". Notice that I don't try and minimize your opinion just because you never played football?

I generally don't try to probe for potential insecurities from people based upon knowledge or experiences they have not yet obtained. No need to try and devalue somebody's opinion to try and inflate the value of my own. Again, welcome to Benny Snell, he could be a great addition to the Steelers Offense.

Mojouw

05-03-2019, 02:23 PM

And there you go again. Congrats on trying to minimize another persons point of view if its not the same as yours. :hatsoff:

I am honest when I state that I haven't coached higher level than highschool. I have attended many coaching clinics over the years where pro, college, highschool coaches have lectured and gained knowledge from them, in order to better coach the young men that I will coach. But of course you like to point out "youth football". Notice that I don't try and minimize your opinion just because you never played football?

I generally don't try to probe for potential insecurities from people based upon knowledge or experiences they have not yet obtained. No need to try and devalue somebody's opinion to try and inflate the value of my own. Again, welcome to Benny Snell, he could be a great addition to the Steelers Offense.

Kinda like how you simply reject anything with statistics because it is just a bunch of folks who don't understand the real world? That was the take away message of your previous postings, hence you got the clap-back about always pivoting everything to your coaching experience.

Again I ask if you read through any of the materials offered and have anything other than a steadfast belief that somehow more rushing attempts will lead to more wins? While you may feel that stats don't explain things, I believe they do provide a window into larger league-wide trends and trends over time. I only point out that there is essentially no evidence available that overall more rushes has anything to do with leading to winning more games. Now there may be specific situations (like when the Pats ran the Chargers 3 safety formation off the field) where it is a great choice, but the constant drumbeat here that somehow turning around and slapping the ball into the RBs belly 25-30 times in a game is some sort of corrective for anything seems rather hard to swallow. Yet there are a significant number of people who think and talk a great deal about football that ask the rest of us to buy in to that idea. Well, what is being offered to back that buy in? That is why I push people on their opinions, what is behind the opinion? I welcome disagreement, but am intensely curious about the assumptions and facts that we all use to form our opinions. In this specific instance, if there is a wealth of information that says this thing we all kinda believe in isn't a thing, what are we to make of it?

FWIW, I think that anyone who works with young people in any capacity is doing a wonderful thing.

Edman

05-03-2019, 03:02 PM

Because those teams were among the winningest teams in the league. Therefore, they rushed a great # of times late in games with the lead. That is the whole core tenet of the idea that winning and running are highly correlated. However, what remains a bit murkier at best is whether running the ball caused the teams to win. The examined evidence indicates that the majority of the time, it (running the ball) was not the cause of a team winning. Most points are scored through yardage gained through the air.

And yet, it continues to never add up.

In 2018, The Steelers were #1 in Pass Attempts and #2 in Passing Yardage. By that logic, they should've scored more points and won more. However, they were only sixth in scoring (New Orleans, Kansas City, Rams, Indy, and New England were higher). The Chargers and Seattle, two playoff teams, scored just as many points as the Steelers despite having nowhere near as much passing production. Here's another kicker: The Chicago Bears scored just seven points less than the Steelers (421) despite being 21st in passing yardage and 24th in pass attempts.

The Steelers became the Marino-Era Dolphins in 2018, and were just as successful as they were (Not Very).

Remember the Wild Card comeback vs the Browns around 2000? That was totally the same kind of situation, because the Browns and that 5-wide offense could never run the football enough to close out a game. I still don't buy the notion that Fichtner will not be the same idiot playcaller this season.

This is slightly different.

The Browns' playcaller in that game was our favorite Bruce Arians. The Browns blew that game not because they didn't run the ball enough, it was because they couldn't run at all. Cleveland got 38 yards rushing in that game. William Green blew chunks. Despite Kelly Holcomb going off in that game, the Browns couldn't run the ball to save their life. Again, all the more importance of having an effective running game.

polamalubeast

05-03-2019, 03:14 PM

Because those teams were among the winningest teams in the league. Therefore, they rushed a great # of times late in games with the lead. That is the whole core tenet of the idea that winning and running are highly correlated. However, what remains a bit murkier at best is whether running the ball caused the teams to win. The examined evidence indicates that the majority of the time, it (running the ball) was not the cause of a team winning. Most points are scored through yardage gained through the air.

It's a big myth ... Just to look at the Seattle Seahawks in 2017 vs 2018

Also, consistency is one of the things that our offense has missed for several years and the lack of running play is one of the big reasons...Consistency is one of the most important things in the NFL and it's important that the steelers don't rely too much on a player.Said what you want on the CowherBall, but with a very good QB like in 2004 and 2005, it was very efficient and the steelers were very hard to beat

And no, you do not waste a QB when you play this style since the QB is very important to make big play in the passing game like Russell Wilson in Seattle ... In 2018, Seattle was the team with the most run in the NFL, but they still pay Russell Wilson 35 Millions per year, which means he is very important for Seattle, same thing for Ben in 2004 and 2005 even if they were a running team.

GoSlash27

05-03-2019, 04:14 PM

You guys get that the reason for the link between winning and rushing attempts is that the teams were winning, so they ran the ball more.
I get that "running the ball more" was done for a reason: Time of possession, wearing down the defense, and protecting the ball. It is just as important to maintain a lead as it is to gain it, so rushing contributed to those victories just as much as passing.

I reiterate: Having a solid power running game does nothing to hurt us and helps us win football games. I'm on board with that.

Born2Steel

05-03-2019, 05:13 PM

I get that "running the ball more" was done for a reason: Time of possession, wearing down the defense, and protecting the ball. It is just as important to maintain a lead as it is to gain it, so rushing contributed to those victories just as much as passing.

I reiterate: Having a solid power running game does nothing to hurt us and helps us win football games. I'm on board with that.

I think this is the main point in this discussion. If it hurts the team’s chances of winning then stop doing it. Running the ball every down hurts chances. Throwing the ball every down hurts chances. A situational mixture of both doesn’t hurt chances at all.

polamalubeast

05-03-2019, 05:20 PM

I think this is the main point in this discussion. If it hurts the team’s chances of winning then stop doing it. Running the ball every down hurts chances. Throwing the ball every down hurts chances. A situational mixture of both doesn’t hurt chances at all.

Agreed

The problem last year, the steelers were too pass happy, despite having 2 RB with 4.5 and 4.6 YPC ..... It's not as if our running game was terrible like in 2012 ....

We are talking about the game against the Chargers ..... Also the Tampa Bay game that the steelers have almost lost this game after having a 20 points lead at half time .... the running game was once again not enough used in the second half.

Under Bill Cowher, the steelers were something like 110-1-1 when the team had 11 points in any point of the game.

Born2Steel

05-03-2019, 07:17 PM

Agreed

The problem last year, the steelers were too pass happy, despite having 2 RB with 4.5 and 4.6 YPC ..... It's not as if our running game was terrible like in 2012 ....

We are talking about the game against the Chargers ..... Also the Tampa Bay game that the steelers have almost lost this game after having a 20 points lead at half time .... the running game was once again not enough used in the second half.

Under Bill Cowher, the steelers were something like 110-1-1 when the team had 11 points in any point of the game.

Under Bill Cowher? OK now I get where the discussion takes a debatable turn. You cannot compare eras. That just doesn't work into a productive conversation like ever. The Steelers ran less last year for a few reasons. One reason is Bell sat out the season. Another is Ridley is a fumble monster. How about Conner is oft injured up to this point. And let's not forget Samuels is not an every down back plus he was a rookie, which means doesn't know the whole playbook and is not an effective pass blocker. Any one of these things could take some run plays out of a game, put them all together and your run game definitely has to take a back seat. YES teams that run a more balanced offense with a healthy mix of run and pass do better and stand a better chance of a deep playoff run. But the Steelers didn't just not run the ball last season because they just didn't want to. There were legitimate reasons for it whether fans want to accept those reasons or not. There should be more of an emphasis on the run game this season however. A few reasons for that too. One reason is we now have 3 capable backs that will start this season healthy. Another reason is our WR corps is very young, new, inexperienced, and most likely will not be on the same page as Ben to start out. Everybody that wants to see a more run heavy offense at the beginning of the 2019 season should get their wish. So while it may look like an over-adjustment at first but in reality the run game may need to buy some time for the pass game to catch up.

polamalubeast

05-03-2019, 07:28 PM

Under Bill Cowher? OK now I get where the discussion takes a debatable turn. You cannot compare eras. That just doesn't work into a productive conversation like ever. The Steelers ran less last year for a few reasons. One reason is Bell sat out the season. Another is Ridley is a fumble monster. How about Conner is oft injured up to this point. And let's not forget Samuels is not an every down back plus he was a rookie, which means doesn't know the whole playbook and is not an effective pass blocker. Any one of these things could take some run plays out of a game, put them all together and your run game definitely has to take a back seat. YES teams that run a more balanced offense with a healthy mix of run and pass do better and stand a better chance of a deep playoff run. But the Steelers didn't just not run the ball last season because they just didn't want to. There were legitimate reasons for it whether fans want to accept those reasons or not. There should be more of an emphasis on the run game this season however. A few reasons for that too. One reason is we now have 3 capable backs that will start this season healthy. Another reason is our WR corps is very young, new, inexperienced, and most likely will not be on the same page as Ben to start out. Everybody that wants to see a more run heavy offense at the beginning of the 2019 season should get their wish. So while it may look like an over-adjustment at first but in reality the run game may need to buy some time for the pass game to catch up.

Yes, I can understand the reasons why the running game was not used much in 2018 but the steelers will have no reason to be pass happy like in 2018 for the reasons you said.

GoSlash27

05-03-2019, 08:12 PM

while it may look like an over-adjustment at first but in reality the run game may need to buy some time for the pass game to catch up.

This is the most important point IMO. The "Killer Bs" no longer exist. That phase of Steelers football may return someday, but it ain't this year. We still have Ben, the best o-line in pro football, and some good targets downfield, but the passing game will not be what it was previously. We need a force multiplier to keep defenses off- balance and the sticks moving, and a good power running attack is the best possible remedy. Our passing game is stoppable this year if defenses can focus on it, but they can't focus on it if we hand the ball off to Snell. Defenses have to honor that threat, which weakens them against the pass. Bonus: It opens up play action and draws.
If this training camp and preseason shapes up as I expect, I'd hate to be a DC facing this team...

FrancoLambert

05-04-2019, 07:43 AM

I have several pieces of paper hanging on my wall too.

They’re “certificates of merit.” Do they count when measuring intellect?

:argue:

Born2Steel

05-04-2019, 09:30 AM

This is the most important point IMO. The "Killer Bs" no longer exist. That phase of Steelers football may return someday, but it ain't this year. We still have Ben, the best o-line in pro football, and some good targets downfield, but the passing game will not be what it was previously. We need a force multiplier to keep defenses off- balance and the sticks moving, and a good power running attack is the best possible remedy. Our passing game is stoppable this year if defenses can focus on it, but they can't focus on it if we hand the ball off to Snell. Defenses have to honor that threat, which weakens them against the pass. Bonus: It opens up play action and draws.
If this training camp and preseason shapes up as I expect, I'd hate to be a DC facing this team...

Are you bringing back the 'Bubble Screen'? :rofl2:

GoSlash27

05-04-2019, 10:26 AM

Are you bringing back the 'Bubble Screen'? :rofl2:

Nah. The BSoD (bubble screen of death) was an attempt to recreate a power running game without a power runner. :p If I could bring anything back, it'd be the pro set.

stillers4me

05-04-2019, 01:45 PM

1124452964779712512

1124454305379962880

DesertSteel

05-04-2019, 01:46 PM

Sucking up already! lol ....... good for him!

Six Rings

05-04-2019, 07:03 PM

I'm still not sure why the Steelers spent a 4th round pick on a 3rd string guy. While some may say what is Conner and Samuels go down. I say you can say the same for any position. RB is the easiest position on offense to replace, besides kicker.

Snell is too slow to feature as an every down back, and tend to doubt will add much as a special teams kick coverage person. He could be a short yardage runner, but Conner's already excellent at that.

Not a fan of this pick at all.

FrancoLambert

05-05-2019, 09:02 AM

They’re going to slim him down a bit...as they did with Bell.

Hopefully his speed (or is it suddenness and glide) improves.

GBMelBlount

05-05-2019, 09:17 AM

1124452964779712512

1124454305379962880

Awwwww, I wonder if Little Benny starts calling Big Ben "Da Da".

Fire Goodell

05-06-2019, 12:20 PM

They’re going to slim him down a bit...as they did with Bell.

Hopefully his speed (or is it suddenness and glide) improves.

Does he have much extra weight to lose? Dude already looks pretty diesel

polamalubeast

05-10-2019, 03:53 PM

1126952596076470273

86WARD

05-10-2019, 04:55 PM

1126952596076470273

They used to run that wrap around draw with Bell all the time and it was a TERRIBLE play. I think I can count on one hand how many times it got more than 3 yards...

tube517

05-10-2019, 04:55 PM

You all better learn what Benny Snell football is....

1126958589770334209

Fire Goodell

05-10-2019, 05:05 PM

1126952596076470273

Bell was the most overrated RB in maybe the entire history of Steelers Football, or maybe even the game itself. Yall gonna find out why this year

polamalubeast

05-10-2019, 05:27 PM

Bell was the most overrated RB in maybe the entire history of Steelers Football, or maybe even the game itself. Yall gonna find out why this year

Bell is a very good player, but the RB's position is very replaceable in the NFL.The steelers were lucky that Bell refused the steelers big offer in 2018 because he wanted crazy money.And no, Bell is not Marshall Faulk or a player like that and we have not missed the playoffs in 2018 because of Conner!

- - - Updated - - -

They used to run that wrap around draw with Bell all the time and it was a TERRIBLE play. I think I can count on one hand how many times it got more than 3 yards...

I hated it so much

I want the steelers to be more balanced in first down and 10, since 64% of pass attempts in the first half on this down is way too much, but running on second down and 8 yards or longer is a terrible idea because it's almost certain that we'll be in 3rd down and long after and one of the reasons why I will never miss Todd Haley.

Butch

05-11-2019, 06:37 AM

You all better learn what Benny Snell football is....

I hope it's something very special

Shoes

05-11-2019, 07:59 AM

He reminds me of Hines Ward a bit.

pczach

05-11-2019, 02:16 PM

We will discover what his athletic ceiling is shortly, but I loooove his relentless, physical running. If he can show that he has good hands, a decent feel for the passing game, and shows a little wiggle to make people miss with a quick burst.....he will be an excellent pro and a fan favorite.

If you like effort...he's your guy.

polamalubeast

05-14-2019, 06:25 AM

In the game against the Chargers, the steelers led by 8 points at the beginning of the 4th quarter, they attempts 14 pass vs 2 run!

This is not the only game .... against the Bengals in October, the steelers led by 3 points at the beginning of the 4th quarter, and they attempts 15 pass against only 1 run....yes 1 run with the lead for almost the entire 4th quarter!

They have almost lost this game .... The steelers give up the run way too early too often.

GoSlash27

05-14-2019, 04:11 PM

Snell is too slow to feature as an every down back

My experience tells me there's no such thing as "too slow" when it comes to running backs.

Fire Goodell

05-14-2019, 04:31 PM

My experience tells me there's no such thing as "too slow" when it comes to running backs.

I'm sure he's just as fast as fat boy CJ Anderson who did pretty well last year

hawaiiansteeler

05-20-2019, 12:55 AM

https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_photo_album/f_auto/steelers/ciksbvbdzalytqdhb84i.jpg

polamalubeast

05-31-2019, 05:46 PM

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

El-Gonzo Jackson

06-01-2019, 02:37 PM

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

polamalubeast

06-01-2019, 02:50 PM

teegre

06-01-2019, 03:03 PM

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

- - - Updated - - -

so am I reading this correctly that the Steelers passed the football more than running and it was adjusted for expectations of running later in the game? So my eyes didn't deceive me that Ben's caddy was the head of one of the more imbalanced offenses in the NFL. :whistle:

Why wasn’t this worthy of being posted 8 times???

8 is for closers.
7 gets you a set of steak knives.

polamalubeast

06-01-2019, 03:11 PM

The fact that the steelers talked about a lot of things in OTA, but not for running the football more means surely that the steelers are going to be pass happy again in 2019.

One thing I do agree with Fitchner and Ben is that running the ball on the second down and 10 is a wasted play, especially when you need another score .... The steelers had the least running play in this down and distance

But the steelers were still too much pass happy in first down and 10.

Born2Steel

06-01-2019, 04:24 PM

For the run-pass ratio...

1134464243154268160

So what is this graph telling me? That the Steelers passed 9% more than what was expected? Well that extra 9% wasn't enough to keep AB happy so what now?

I honestly think that when Conner goes out with his injury this season, Snell moves right in and we don't miss a beat. Samuels will be there just in case too but we do have a more solid RB room this season.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that the steelers talked about a lot of things in OTA, but not for running the football more means surely that the steelers are going to be pass happy again in 2019.

One thing I do agree with Fitchner and Ben is that running the ball on the second down and 10 is a wasted play, especially when you need another score .... The steelers had the least running play in this down and distance

But the steelers were still too much pass happy in first down and 10.

One of the biggest ironies in football is when you give a QB the choice to pass or run he will nearly always choose pass, while the OL nearly always wants to run the ball. And it is nothing based off of scheme, down and distance, or efficiency. They ALL want to prove that THEY can win at this game.