Steelers Send House To Michigan’s Pro Day

[Shoes]

If you were curious if the Pittsburgh Steelers had any interest in the top Michigan prospects, here’s your answer. A resounding yes. The team sent a big crew to the Wolverine’s Pro Day, including Kevin Colbert, Mike Tomlin, and Teryl Austin. Austin was hired this year to be an assistant secondary coach.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/03/steelers-send-house-to-michigans-pro-day/

[Dwinsgames]

if he is there Devin Bush is absolutely the target in rd 1 IMO ....

[Born2Steel]

Could be targeting 2 Michigan LBs.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Rashaun Gary, Devin Bush, Chase Winovich, David Long (CB), Zach Gentry (TE), Karon Higdon (RB) are all players that could be considered at different points in the draft. Worthwhile sending in the big guns to the pro day.

The Teryl Austin attendance could be due to his Detroit Lions time and familiarity with players, or his DB coaching and having a look at David Long, or the fact he was a DC and could be another set of eyes on any of the devensive players.

[86WARD]

Unless they move way up, they aren’t getting Bush.

[teegre]

Rashaun Gary, Devin Bush, Chase Winovich, David Long (CB), Zach Gentry (TE), Karon Higdon (RB) are all players that could be considered at different points in the draft. Worthwhile sending in the big guns to the pro day.

The Teryl Austin attendance could be due to his Detroit Lions time and familiarity with players, or his DB coaching and having a look at David Long, or the fact he was a DC and could be another set of eyes on any of the devensive players.

Every year I joke about having an “all (college)” draft, but really... I wouldn’t mind an “all Michigan” draft.

[munchy]

they are setting themselves up for a need draft for sure................watch them spend numerous picks to move up for bush

[pczach]

Winovich is going to have thumb surgery. It was already known, but just wanted to post it for those who don't.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/chase-winovich-requires-thumb-surgery/

[GBMelBlount]

I knew we needed a doctor to save us....

http://www.newlovetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Dr.-House.jpg

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if he is there Devin Bush is absolutely the target in rd 1 IMO ....

Why not trade up with the extra picks.

[teegre]

they are setting themselves up for a need draft for sure................watch them spend numerous picks to move up for bush

And... if they do???

#sowhat

[munchy]

And... if they do???

#sowhat

they will be missing out on a chance to fill several holes with those 4 early picks
#duh

[teegre]

they will be missing out on a chance to fill several holes with those 4 early picks
#duh

20 and 83 to move up to 15 :noidea:

[munchy]

20 and 83 to move up to 15 :noidea:


that would be a reach and not BPA, like the steelers supposedly always do
i havent seen a draft board that has him at 15 or above

[teegre]

that would be a reach and not BPA, like the steelers supposedly always do
i havent seen a draft board that has him at 15 or above

Perfect... take him at 20, then.

And, I think most would disagree (that Bush wouldn’t be worthy of the 20th pick).

[munchy]

Perfect... take him at 20, then.

And, I think most would disagree (that Bush wouldn’t be worthy of the 20th pick).

i would be good with staying at 20 and filling a need with bush................

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Perfect... take him at 20, then.

And, I think most would disagree (that Bush wouldn’t be worthy of the 20th pick).

i would be good with staying at 20 and filling a need with bush................

[Bluecoat96]

they will be missing out on a chance to fill several holes with those 4 early picks
#duhI missed you, Crash.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[munchy]

I missed you, Crash.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

i miss crash also. the guy was great entertainment

[Born2Steel]

Devin Bush is the ILB the Steelers would make a trade up for in this draft. If they do it for any player I think it will be for Bush or Hockenson. I think that may be a real goal heading into the draft.

Rashan Gary is too much of a 'tweener' to take as early as he will most likely go in this draft. Is he a OLB or a DE? I have read takes on both and seems more of a DE to me.

Zach Gentry is intriguing if we don't take Hockenson or go WR early. At 6'7" and with his pass catching ability he could be gone in the 2nd, or be there in the 4th due to lack of blocking technique and strength.

David Long is the mystery player. He projects mostly as a slot CB which is not really a need today. I think his lack of production in run support takes him off our board.

Chase Winovich is the LB you simply have to love. Somehow seems to always be in or near the tackle. He has that look of Clay Matthews coming out of college. I can see him being a draft target by the Steelers. Dinner before pro day plus meeting after pro day, definitely an interest there.

Karan Higdon doesn't bring much to the current RB stable, IMO. Not saying he isn't worthy of being picked in a later round but what does he do well?

Just my thoughts on the Michigan pro day visits. Apparently Olsavsky(sp) ran most of the defensive drills. Any further thoughts on any or all of these prospects?

[Mojouw]

that would be a reach and not BPA, like the steelers supposedly always do
i havent seen a draft board that has him at 15 or above
Read better draft boards? Ive seen several have him go in the top 10.

[munchy]

Devin Bush is the ILB the Steelers would make a trade up for in this draft. If they do it for any player I think it will be for Bush or Hockenson. I think that may be a real goal heading into the draft.

Rashan Gary is too much of a 'tweener' to take as early as he will most likely go in this draft. Is he a OLB or a DE? I have read takes on both and seems more of a DE to me.

Zach Gentry is intriguing if we don't take Hockenson or go WR early. At 6'7" and with his pass catching ability he could be gone in the 2nd, or be there in the 4th due to lack of blocking technique and strength.

David Long is the mystery player. He projects mostly as a slot CB which is not really a need today. I think his lack of production in run support takes him off our board.

Chase Winovich is the LB you simply have to love. Somehow seems to always be in or near the tackle. He has that look of Clay Matthews coming out of college. I can see him being a draft target by the Steelers. Dinner before pro day plus meeting after pro day, definitely an interest there.

Karan Higdon doesn't bring much to the current RB stable, IMO. Not saying he isn't worthy of being picked in a later round but what does he do well?

Just my thoughts on the Michigan pro day visits. Apparently Olsavsky(sp) ran most of the defensive drills. Any further thoughts on any or all of these prospects?


nice evaluation. i agree with all of it except winovich.
i know the steelers have gone away from drafting football players and have gone towards athletes lately. i know on paper winovich checks both boxes, football player and had a good combine, but for some reason i dont see him being an impact guy in the nfl. ive seen him plenty(on tv and in person) but just have a bad gut feeling. i hope i am wrong even if we dont draft him
i wouldnt be mad tho as long as he wasnt taken in the first round

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Read better draft boards? Ive seen several have him go in the top 10.

can you list those draft boards?
im always looking to add new ones that i dont have saved already

[Mojouw]

Google “mock draft” and “devin bush”?

Dude is the most prized commodity outside of edge rusher, LT, and QB. He is gonna go high.

[teegre]

The Steelers also sent the house to watch Clemson’s Pro day.

[munchy]

Google “mock draft” and “devin bush”?

Dude is the most prized commodity outside of edge rusher, LT, and QB. He is gonna go high.


i just googles it and found 3 out of 11 sites that had him listed above 20............one had him at 11, one at 12 and one at 17
i never saw one that had him a more prized commodity over devin white or few, if any, that had him over hockenson and fant

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The Steelers also sent the house to watch Clemson’s Pro day.

i know its early, but do you remember if the steelers sent this many in previous years?

[teegre]

i know its early, but do you remember if the steelers sent this many in previous years?

Ohio St. usually has the “entire” coaching staff attend (for multiple reasons).

Off the top top of my head, last season, it was also Alabama (Frazier was the center of Tomlin’s attention at that dinner).

The year befire, it was Wisconsin (TJ Watt).

[Mojouw]

i just googles it and found 3 out of 11 sites that had him listed above 20............one had him at 11, one at 12 and one at 17
i never saw one that had him a more prized commodity over devin white or few, if any, that had him over hockenson and fant

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i know its early, but do you remember if the steelers sent this many in previous years?

There are two instant impact 3 down off ball linebackers in this draft - that is about it. Every single team in the NFL wants 1-2 players like that on their roster. How else would you define prized?

[munchy]

Ohio St. usually has the “entire” coaching staff attend (for multiple reasons).

Off the top top of my head, last season, it was also Alabama (Frazier was the center of Tomlin’s attention at that dinner).

The year befire, it was Wisconsin (TJ Watt).

thanks.
hopefully this is a new trend and the full compliment will attend all of them.
why not, they are getting paid , right?

[Born2Steel]

Devin Bush and Rashan Gary are the 2 most prized prospects from Michigan in this draft. I think Gary fits best to a 4-3 defense so his interest may be more limited than Bush's. Regardless of what draft position they get taken, both are very high on ALL draft boards.

[teegre]

thanks.
hopefully this is a new trend and the full compliment will attend all of them.
why not, they are getting paid , right?

There are hundreds (literally) of colleges to scout and/or pro days to attend. There is zero chance that every coach attends every pro day.

They divvy it up, where if only the DB coach attends the Notre Dame Pro day, he’s probably looking at Julian Love. (That’s not factual, but an example.)

[munchy]

There are two instant impact 3 down off ball linebackers in this draft - that is about it. Every single team in the NFL wants 1-2 players like that on their roster. How else would you define prized?

you said there were several sites that had bush listed top 10
you said he was more prized than anyone else other than edge, lt and qb
SO once again, can you please list all these sites(that you said 'just google and they will come up') that show him in the top 10 AND then please show me the sites that have him listed ahead of white.
at this point i cant seem to find these 'better draft boards' that you are speaking of.
im also having a hard time finding site that have him ahead of several DLs

i dont care that there are 2 instant impact 3 down lbs in this draft(according to you).
im not debating what my definition of prized is compared to yours . that is subjective
i would like to see these sites you are talking about.
its not that tough to list them for me

[munchy]

There are hundreds (literally) of colleges to scout and/or pro days to attend. There is zero chance that every coach attends every pro day.

They divvy it up, where if only the DB coach attends the Notre Dame Pro day, he’s probably looking at Julian Love. (That’s not factual, but an example.)

obviously
my bad, i guess i shouldnt have said full compliment, if there are multiple pro days on the same day
i guess i will follow this more closely and see if everyone, on their compliment, is at someones pro day from here on out


EDIT: after some quick research, it already appears that there were pro days that only 1 or 2 representatives attended while the rest of the compliment didnt go to any other pro days on that same day.
so, even when possible, it appears that the steelers had the ability to send all the coaches but chose not too.

[Mojouw]

you said there were several sites that had bush listed top 10
you said he was more prized than anyone else other than edge, lt and qb
SO once again, can you please list all these sites(that you said 'just google and they will come up') that show him in the top 10 AND then please show me the sites that have him listed ahead of white.
at this point i cant seem to find these 'better draft boards' that you are speaking of.
im also having a hard time finding site that have him ahead of several DLs

i dont care that there are 2 instant impact 3 down lbs in this draft(according to you).
im not debating what my definition of prized is compared to yours . that is subjective
i would like to see these sites you are talking about.
its not that tough to list them for me

Not my fault you suck at Google-fu.

Here is one with Bush at 10 - http://nfldraft.theringer.com/

Looking at a number major mock draft site and majority have still not adjusted their claims since the combine results have come in -- where Bush posted testing numbers almost none of these chattering talking heads anticipated.

Look at last year's draft -- how many off-ball LBers went in the first round again? Far more than 2. This year there are two - White and Bush. They are going to go early. I do not care what any projection says, but White lasting into the 20's is not going to happen. He plays an increasingly valuable and rare style of LB - that prized commodity I talked about.

You can quibble all you want, but mock drafts are always wrong after the first 5 picks. White and Bush are the only sure-fire ILB rookie impact starters in the entire class. They play a style of LB that every single damn team in the NFL wants. It is so valuable that about a half dozen came off the board last year, when the class was projected to be almost 8+ deep at the position. So wanna make a logical guess about how aggressive teams will be in a class that has only 2?

Trading up to whatever it took to get White or Bush would be a great move by the Steelers and I don't think it is possible to over-draft the guy. On the defensive side of the ball for the Steelers there are only 2 players I would value over the "Devins" (sounds like an 80-'s teen-beat magazine cover) - Bosa and Ferrell.

I think you and I fundamentally differ on how to judge the draft. You sound like a guy that if a bunch of places have him ranked at "#X" in the draft class and a team drafts him at Pick # less than X - you will cry "Reach" and talk about over-drafting and all that.

Well, Darius Leonard was overdrafted according to the Internet. How'd that look if everyone got a redo? If the guy can play and he plays a position of need for your team, screw fiddling with projected ranks -- go get your guy.

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obviously
my bad, i guess i shouldnt have said full compliment, if there are multiple pro days on the same day
i guess i will follow this more closely and see if everyone, on their compliment, is at someones pro day from here on out


EDIT: after some quick research, it already appears that there were pro days that only 1 or 2 representatives attended while the rest of the compliment didnt go to any other pro days on that same day.
so, even when possible, it appears that the steelers had the ability to send all the coaches but chose not too.

Head coaches and coordinators rarely attend pro days and wine and dine prosepcts that the team does not think it will select in the first round or maybe the second. The rest of the draft is parceled out to position coaches and scouts. That is why the internet breathlessly reports where Head coaches and GMs are spotted -- it gives a good indicator of what direction a particular team is leaning towards in Round 1 or the top of Round 2.

[86WARD]

that would be a reach and not BPA, like the steelers supposedly always do
i havent seen a draft board that has him at 15 or above

???

I’ve seen tons of draft boards that have him going well before 20. If the Steelers sit at 20, there are plenty of teams that will take him before that. Bengals, Dolphins, Browns, Raiders. Then you need to watch the Bears and Chiefs...neither of the Devins will be there at 20.

[hawaiiansteeler]

???

I’ve seen tons of draft boards that have him going well before 20. If the Steelers sit at 20, there are plenty of teams that will take him before that. Bengals, Dolphins, Browns, Raiders. Then you need to watch the Bears and Chiefs...neither of the Devins will be there at 20.

I originally thought Bush was going to be there for us at #20 but not after his Combine performance.

[86WARD]

His numbers are as close as I’ve ever seen to Shaziers numbers.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190317/17fdca696c74376b314d160209af77be.jpg

[Mojouw]

His numbers are as close as I’ve ever seen to Shaziers numbers.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190317/17fdca696c74376b314d160209af77be.jpg

That just makes me sad.

[pczach]

That just makes me sad.



It's exciting that there are a couple players with a similar skillset to Shazier, but just knowing that we had a guy that athletically gifted that can no longer play the game is awful. I'm heartbroken for him personally and pray he fully recovers.

He may be the most athletic LB to ever play the game. Shazier hadn't even hit his prime yet and was an unbelievable player. Mosley got more of the press and more Pro Bowls, but Shazier was the better, more athletic, more complete player....and it isn't close.

Hopefully the Steelers can land White or Bush and fill the huge hole in the middle of that defense that was left when Ryan was injured.

[munchy]

Not my fault you suck at Google-fu.

Here is one with Bush at 10 - http://nfldraft.theringer.com/

Looking at a number major mock draft site and majority have still not adjusted their claims since the combine results have come in -- where Bush posted testing numbers almost none of these chattering talking heads anticipated.

Look at last year's draft -- how many off-ball LBers went in the first round again? Far more than 2. This year there are two - White and Bush. They are going to go early. I do not care what any projection says, but White lasting into the 20's is not going to happen. He plays an increasingly valuable and rare style of LB - that prized commodity I talked about.

You can quibble all you want, but mock drafts are always wrong after the first 5 picks. White and Bush are the only sure-fire ILB rookie impact starters in the entire class. They play a style of LB that every single damn team in the NFL wants. It is so valuable that about a half dozen came off the board last year, when the class was projected to be almost 8+ deep at the position. So wanna make a logical guess about how aggressive teams will be in a class that has only 2?

Trading up to whatever it took to get White or Bush would be a great move by the Steelers and I don't think it is possible to over-draft the guy. On the defensive side of the ball for the Steelers there are only 2 players I would value over the "Devins" (sounds like an 80-'s teen-beat magazine cover) - Bosa and Ferrell.

I think you and I fundamentally differ on how to judge the draft. You sound like a guy that if a bunch of places have him ranked at "#X" in the draft class and a team drafts him at Pick # less than X - you will cry "Reach" and talk about over-drafting and all that.

Well, Darius Leonard was overdrafted according to the Internet. How'd that look if everyone got a redo? If the guy can play and he plays a position of need for your team, screw fiddling with projected ranks -- go get your guy.

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Head coaches and coordinators rarely attend pro days and wine and dine prosepcts that the team does not think it will select in the first round or maybe the second. The rest of the draft is parceled out to position coaches and scouts. That is why the internet breathlessly reports where Head coaches and GMs are spotted -- it gives a good indicator of what direction a particular team is leaning towards in Round 1 or the top of Round 2.

lol................i suck at google?
i called you out and you came up with 1 site.....hilarious.
now your panties are all in a bunch because i caught you lying
now youre back peddling saying mocks arent adjusted yet............its hard to believe you can even type that garbage
SO, ONCE AGAIN.............show me all those sites that you said you found that had him top 10. if not, FU too.

jesus chriminy, why cant people just admit that they were wrong, made stuff up, lied, only saw one site or admit that they have a crush on a certain player and over hyped him?


oh, i also want to see where he is more coveted than white, the TEs and the DLs
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???

I’ve seen tons of draft boards that have him going well before 20. If the Steelers sit at 20, there are plenty of teams that will take him before that. Bengals, Dolphins, Browns, Raiders. Then you need to watch the Bears and Chiefs...neither of the Devins will be there at 20.


could you please provide those sites?
like i said earlier, to this other poster, i am always looking to add draft site to my favorites. out of the 15 sites i have, only a couple have him above 20
thanks

[Mojouw]

Again, your lack of reading comprehension skills and ability to follow a complex argument is not my problem.

Keep believing that standing pat at 20 nets you Devin Bush because a mock draft from Mike Mayock from January said so. Hell, maybe Bush plummets based on concerns over his size and ability to disengage from blocking and goes at 25. Maybe he goes top 10. Maybe top 15. No one knows.

But I’m certain of this. There are two players at ILB that stand head and shoulders above the other players in the class at the position. Historically, when the tiers of players are that starkly separated and the top tier is so small, NFL teams aggressively pursue the top players.

But we can keep aggressively arguing about the meaning of prized or if Bush is #20 or 21 in the class.

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1qA3VUXQAIYgU8.jpg

[Mojouw]

It's exciting that there are a couple players with a similar skillset to Shazier, but just knowing that we had a guy that athletically gifted that can no longer play the game is awful. I'm heartbroken for him personally and pray he fully recovers.

He may be the most athletic LB to ever play the game. Shazier hadn't even hit his prime yet and was an unbelievable player. Mosley got more of the press and more Pro Bowls, but Shazier was the better, more athletic, more complete player....and it isn't close.

Hopefully the Steelers can land White or Bush and fill the huge hole in the middle of that defense that was left when Ryan was injured.

I won' t ever be able to be swayed from my position that if Shazier hadn't gotten hurt, everyone would be talking about him as one of the most dominant defenders in the league. He was on the verge of putting it all together to start compiling Defensive Player of the Year type seasons.

[SteelerCountry58]

This is more about Winovich with the second pick then anything else. He won’t last until our third.

[hawaiiansteeler]

This is more about Winovich with the second pick then anything else. He won’t last until our third.

maybe, maybe not.

he did just have thumb surgery...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This is more about Winovich with the second pick then anything else. He won’t last until our third.

IMO, he is a reach with the steelers 2nd pick. There are better athletes available in the 2nd round. He may not last until the 3rd, but as much as I am a Michigan fan, I don't think that is good draft strategy for the Steelers.

[teegre]

IMO, he is a reach with the steelers 2nd pick. There are better athletes available in the 2nd round. He may not last until the 3rd, but as much as I am a Michigan fan, I don't think that is good draft strategy for the Steelers.

Yea, draft Twitter is all abuzz about “Winovich at 52”. :huh: I see him as a R3 target.

What is truly scary is some are saying “Winovich at 20”. :scared:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yea, draft Twitter is all abuzz about “Winovich at 52”. :huh: I see him as a R3 target.

What is truly scary is some are saying “Winovich at 20”. :scared:

Not any less scary than when people said Artie Burns at 20.

[Dwinsgames]

That just makes me sad.

Devin White tops Bush in 6 of the 9 categories ....

but White ties Shazier in 1 ( weight ) and Beats Shazier in 20 yard shuffle , otherwise its clean slate to Shaz ....

[Mojouw]

Not any less scary than when people said Artie Burns at 20.

Burns at least has the physical tools to play in the NFL. Winovich does not.

[vasteeler]

lol................i suck at google?
i called you out and you came up with 1 site.....hilarious.
now your panties are all in a bunch because i caught you lying
now youre back peddling saying mocks arent adjusted yet............its hard to believe you can even type that garbage
SO, ONCE AGAIN.............show me all those sites that you said you found that had him top 10. if not, FU too.

jesus chriminy, why cant people just admit that they were wrong, made stuff up, lied, only saw one site or admit that they have a crush on a certain player and over hyped him?


oh, i also want to see where he is more coveted than white, the TEs and the DLs
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could you please provide those sites?
like i said earlier, to this other poster, i am always looking to add draft site to my favorites. out of the 15 sites i have, only a couple have him above 20
thanks

Serious question. Are You here just to cause trouble? In most threads that's exactly what you are doing.

[FrancoLambert]

Serious question. Are You here just to cause trouble? In most threads that's exactly what you are doing.

:clap2:

[SteelMember]

Burns at least has the physical tools to play in the NFL. Winovich does not.

I had to read that twice... :doh:

[Fire Goodell]

lol................i suck at google?
i called you out and you came up with 1 site.....hilarious.
now your panties are all in a bunch because i caught you lying
now youre back peddling saying mocks arent adjusted yet............its hard to believe you can even type that garbage
SO, ONCE AGAIN.............show me all those sites that you said you found that had him top 10. if not, FU too.

jesus chriminy, why cant people just admit that they were wrong, made stuff up, lied, only saw one site or admit that they have a crush on a certain player and over hyped him?


oh, i also want to see where he is more coveted than white, the TEs and the DLs
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could you please provide those sites?
like i said earlier, to this other poster, i am always looking to add draft site to my favorites. out of the 15 sites i have, only a couple have him above 20
thanks

Wow this guy's johnson is 12 inches long

[munchy]

Serious question. Are You here just to cause trouble? In most threads that's exactly what you are doing.


actually no.
i was engaging in a conversation with an individual that made claims that i questioned. i simply asked for him to provide me the sites that he got his info from.
he has side stepped and avoided providing me with that information. he got frustrated and insulted me.
so, i admit i stepped up the aggression level.
anyone can go back and read the thread and see how it has gotten to this point.............pretty simple, really

[hawaiiansteeler]

actually no.
i was engaging in a conversation with an individual that made claims that i questioned. i simply asked for him to provide me the sites that he got his info from.
he has side stepped and avoided providing me with that information. he got frustrated and insulted me.
so, i admit i stepped up the aggression level.
anyone can go back and read the thread and see how it has gotten to this point.............pretty simple, really

dude, you need to learn how to chill out. don't take things so seriously, try and remember that we're all Steelers fans here.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Burns at least has the physical tools to play in the NFL. Winovich does not.

What physical tools does Winovich lack to play in the NFL? I think he can spend some more time in the weight room, but his 4.59 -40 showed he is faster than most thought. His on field drills at the Combine also looked very smooth as he dropped in coverage and changed direction well.

Burns on the other hand looked stiff in his backpedal and turns at the combine and didn't change direction well. Also his 31.5" vertical is similar to that of Winovich 30.5". Burns always looked like a project to me.

www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000644996/2016-Combine-workout-Artie-Burns

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000644996/2016-Combine-workout-Artie-Burns

[munchy]

Again, your lack of reading comprehension skills and ability to follow a complex argument is not my problem.

Keep believing that standing pat at 20 nets you Devin Bush because a mock draft from Mike Mayock from January said so. Hell, maybe Bush plummets based on concerns over his size and ability to disengage from blocking and goes at 25. Maybe he goes top 10. Maybe top 15. No one knows.

But I’m certain of this. There are two players at ILB that stand head and shoulders above the other players in the class at the position. Historically, when the tiers of players are that starkly separated and the top tier is so small, NFL teams aggressively pursue the top players.

But we can keep aggressively arguing about the meaning of prized or if Bush is #20 or 21 in the class.


lol..............a complex argument?
you cant understand a simple one................just provide me with all these sites.........its that simple
you said there were numerous sites that had him listed in the top 10
i asked you to provide them. you couldnt
the fact that you keep changing the narrative has nothing to do with your claim

show me where i said i believe staying at 20 will guarantee getting bush........you cant
show me were i said there i said those 2 lbs arent head and shoulders better than the rest......you cant
we arent arguing about the meaning of prized, you are trying to change the subject............why you are making that up is beyond me
SO, once again. please supply me with all those sites that had bush in the top 10. seeing you are so much better than me at googling, it shouldnt take you very long

[Mojouw]

What physical tools does Winovich lack to play in the NFL? I think he can spend some more time in the weight room, but his 4.59 -40 showed he is faster than most thought. His on field drills at the Combine also looked very smooth as he dropped in coverage and changed direction well.

Burns on the other hand looked stiff in his backpedal and turns at the combine and didn't change direction well. Also his 31.5" vertical is similar to that of Winovich 30.5". Burns always looked like a project to me.

www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000644996/2016-Combine-workout-Artie-Burns

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000644996/2016-Combine-workout-Artie-Burns

Winovich looks like a guy who wins on effort to me. Just relentless hustle on every play and little explosion or change of direction. I suspect that I have over-stated the floor for Winovich. He can likely contribute as a rotational edge player, but I just don't see a starter and all these calls to draft him Round 1 or Round 2 need to be deflated a bit.

I understand that you were never in on Artie Burns. I was in the pre-draft and draft process and through his rookie year. I see know that was wrong and you don't need to convince me.

[munchy]

dude, you need to learn how to chill out. don't take things so seriously, try and remember that we're all Steelers fans here.

listen i can chill and we are all steelers fans but......
the dude has said i suck at google
he said FU
questioned my reading comprehension
why? because i called him out and he cant back what he said......its that simple

[Mojouw]

I see school must have let out for the day.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022837/article/charles-davis-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-steelers-fill-ab-void

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/18/18269708/2019-nfl-mock-draft-free-agency-giants-jets-raiders-49ers-cardinals

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/md.Drew.shtml (oops! #15. Guess I better pack it in)

https://thedraftnetwork.com/prospect-rankings (oops! off by 3. Dang!)

As to the rest of it, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that everyone else understood what I meant and what I was driving at. So I'm not going to do a blow by blow recap here.

Bottom line: Based on recent draft trends, team needs, the FA class, and a variety of other factors, if you want to draft either White or Bush -- you are gonna almost certainly get a pick north of #15 and potentially north of #12.

[Fire Goodell]

I see school must have let out for the day.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022837/article/charles-davis-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-steelers-fill-ab-void

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/18/18269708/2019-nfl-mock-draft-free-agency-giants-jets-raiders-49ers-cardinals

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/md.Drew.shtml (oops! #15. Guess I better pack it in)

https://thedraftnetwork.com/prospect-rankings (oops! off by 3. Dang!)

As to the rest of it, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that everyone else understood what I meant and what I was driving at. So I'm not going to do a blow by blow recap here.

Bottom line: Based on recent draft trends, team needs, the FA class, and a variety of other factors, if you want to draft either White or Bush -- you are gonna almost certainly get a pick north of #15 and potentially north of #12.

Bummer. What about David Long (LB one) or Germaine Pratt in rd 2 or 3?

[Mojouw]

Bummer. What about David Long (LB one) or Germaine Pratt in rd 2 or 3?

I think some combination of Wilson, Long, and Pratt will be around for consideration in the first 3 rounds.

Honestly, wasn't trying to set myself up as anything other than a guy who spends a lot of time in front of a computer and to keep my sanity reads a bunch of draft stuff. My original post on all this was to take a bit of the piss out of a poster I thought could use a little humor...

Long and Pratt could be really nice solutions to the ILB/Dime Player issue for the Steelers and you might be able to get them at much lower draft cost.

[Dwinsgames]

Bummer. What about David Long (LB one) or Germaine Pratt in rd 2 or 3?

rd 3 or later on both IMO ...

rd 4 is more on target but with limited run and hit / coverage style inside backers and several teams coveting them they could be gone sooner than expected

[hawaiiansteeler]

I see school must have let out for the day.

Bottom line: Based on recent draft trends, team needs, the FA class, and a variety of other factors, if you want to draft either White or Bush -- you are gonna almost certainly get a pick north of #15 and potentially north of #12.

Devin White most likely doesn't get past the Lions at #8 and Devin Bush past the Bungals at #11.

[Mojouw]

Devin White most likely doesn't get past the Lions at #8 and Devin Bush past the Bungals at #11.

Pretty close to what this place thinks: https://www.rotoworld.com/article/mock-drafts/post-free-agency-mock-draft

They have the Devins going #10 and #11.

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rd 3 or later on both IMO ...

rd 4 is more on target but with limited run and hit / coverage style inside backers and several teams coveting them they could be gone sooner than expected

I'm still reading and researching, but what do you think the drop off between White and Bush and Long and Pratt is? A massive amount, or not as big as is being stated?

[86WARD]

Devin White most likely doesn't get past the Lions at #8 and Devin Bush past the Bungals at #11.

Agree 100%!

[Shoes]

Devin White most likely doesn't get past the Lions at #8 and Devin Bush past the Bungals at #11.

I've seen a few Mocks that have the Lions taking Hockenson @8

[teegre]

Pretty close to what this place thinks: https://www.rotoworld.com/article/mock-drafts/post-free-agency-mock-draft

They have the Devins going #10 and #11.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm still reading and researching, but what do you think the drop off between White and Bush and Long and Pratt is? A massive amount, or not as big as is being stated?

1. Liar!!!

2. There are two top-tier ILBs, and then a decently-sized group of “late Day 2” ILBs. Of course, there is always a Darius Leonard or a Deion Jones who seemingly get “overdrafted”... yet, do not disappoint. In other words...

Top 20, er, Top 10: White, Bush
R2: who knows?
R3-R4: Wilson, Pratt, Burr-Kirven, Hanks...

[Mojouw]

1. Liar!!!

2. There are two top-tier ILBs, and then a decently-sized group of “late Day 2” ILBs. Of course, there is always a Darius Leonard or a Deion Jones who seemingly get “overdrafted”... yet, do not disappoint. In other words...

Top 20, er, Top 10: White, Bush
R2: who knows?
R3-R4: Wilson, Pratt, Burr-Kirven, Hanks...

So maybe it isn't "The Devins or Bust?". Perhaps what they do in Round 1 will tell us how they internally view the roster?

In other words, trade up and they think they can make a SB run. Stand pat and they figure they are an off-season cycle or two away anyways, so why burn draft capital?

[hawaiiansteeler]

So maybe it isn't "The Devins or Bust?". Perhaps what they do in Round 1 will tell us how they internally view the roster?

In other words, trade up and they think they can make a SB run. Stand pat and they figure they are an off-season cycle or two away anyways, so why burn draft capital?

Ben is most likely only going to play a couple more years, I think we have to take the "all-in now" approach every season we still have him.

[teegre]

So maybe it isn't "The Devins or Bust?". Perhaps what they do in Round 1 will tell us how they internally view the roster?

In other words, trade up and they think they can make a SB run. Stand pat and they figure they are an off-season cycle or two away anyways, so why burn draft capital?

There’s also the “moneyball” approach.

Most teams only routinely hit on 40% of their draft picks. Draft ten players. Keep four of them.

Also, you trade down in R2-R3 for extra draft picks in the next year’s draft (e.g. #66 for a R2 & a R4 in 2020... so that you already have nine draft picks for next year).

At the same time, when “your guy” is within striking distance, you have the draft collateral to acquire him.

[Fire Goodell]

Ben is most likely only going to play a couple more years, I think we have to take the "all-in now" approach every season we still have him.

It does appear that way, most of these new signings and extensions are the 2 year kind, as if we're trying to accomplish it all in 2 years and

[munchy]

I see school must have let out for the day.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022837/article/charles-davis-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-steelers-fill-ab-void

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/18/18269708/2019-nfl-mock-draft-free-agency-giants-jets-raiders-49ers-cardinals

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/md.Drew.shtml (oops! #15. Guess I better pack it in)

https://thedraftnetwork.com/prospect-rankings (oops! off by 3. Dang!)

As to the rest of it, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that everyone else understood what I meant and what I was driving at. So I'm not going to do a blow by blow recap here.

Bottom line: Based on recent draft trends, team needs, the FA class, and a variety of other factors, if you want to draft either White or Bush -- you are gonna almost certainly get a pick north of #15 and potentially north of #12.



sweet, if thats is as close as you will get to admitting that you lied and made it up, ill take it
see, that wasnt t so hard, was it?

- - - Updated - - -


I see school must have let out for the day.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022837/article/charles-davis-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-steelers-fill-ab-void

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/18/18269708/2019-nfl-mock-draft-free-agency-giants-jets-raiders-49ers-cardinals

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/md.Drew.shtml (oops! #15. Guess I better pack it in)

https://thedraftnetwork.com/prospect-rankings (oops! off by 3. Dang!)

As to the rest of it, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that everyone else understood what I meant and what I was driving at. So I'm not going to do a blow by blow recap here.

Bottom line: Based on recent draft trends, team needs, the FA class, and a variety of other factors, if you want to draft either White or Bush -- you are gonna almost certainly get a pick north of #15 and potentially north of #12.



sweet, if thats is as close as you will get to admitting that you lied and made it up, ill take it
see, that wasnt t so hard, was it?

- - - Updated - - -


I see school must have let out for the day.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022837/article/charles-davis-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-steelers-fill-ab-void

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/18/18269708/2019-nfl-mock-draft-free-agency-giants-jets-raiders-49ers-cardinals

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/md.Drew.shtml (oops! #15. Guess I better pack it in)

https://thedraftnetwork.com/prospect-rankings (oops! off by 3. Dang!)

As to the rest of it, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that everyone else understood what I meant and what I was driving at. So I'm not going to do a blow by blow recap here.

Bottom line: Based on recent draft trends, team needs, the FA class, and a variety of other factors, if you want to draft either White or Bush -- you are gonna almost certainly get a pick north of #15 and potentially north of #12.



sweet, if thats is as close as you will get to admitting that you lied and made it up, ill take it
see, that wasnt t so hard, was it?

[Leopardo]

sweet, if thats is as close as you will get to admitting that you lied and made it up, ill take it
see, that wasnt t so hard, was it?


:doh: Like it's not enough that I've got to deal with you on footballsfuture.com. I hope you're more tolerable here than there.

[Mojouw]

sweet, if thats is as close as you will get to admitting that you lied and made it up, ill take it
see, that wasnt t so hard, was it?

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sweet, if thats is as close as you will get to admitting that you lied and made it up, ill take it
see, that wasnt t so hard, was it?

- - - Updated - - -





sweet, if thats is as close as you will get to admitting that you lied and made it up, ill take it
see, that wasnt t so hard, was it?

Nope. Didn't lie at all. Nor did I make anything up. I took in information from the internet and then I made my own opinion. I stand by my statement, but will walk it back a bit if that makes you feel like a man. Devin Bush will go top 10 ish in the draft.

Overall, I will make this real simple for you: I do not think you are very smart. I think you intentionally twist and manipulate statements made on the internet into pedantic arguments because your child-like mind needs to win message board debates to compensate for your overall crushing failure as a human being. I also think that you have nothing valuable to offer as your own opinion or insight, just a loud and forceful regurgitation of thoughts created by better more capable people than you. The problem is your feeble mind is unable to actually understand those thoughts and when you attempt to wield them, you just sound like the guy who uses words he doesn't understand in an attempt to not seem like the dumbest paste-eating moron in the room. Almost all the other morons I encounter in my life, I have to be nice to because I got bills to pay. But you, you I don't have to be nice too.

And before you fly off the handle again - remember how this started. I simply suggested in a snarky way that you read better draft sites. That was all. I've snarked at numerous other posters here in the same manner on multiple occasions. Most take it for what it is -- a harmless swipe to lighten the mood a bit. You managed to turn it into some deep personal attack on your fundamental character as a person. So fine, we can have that conversation. I've said my piece. And I get that this is exactly what you want - for me to engage and take the discussion down to your level. At least there you have a chance of competing, right? If we talked about actual information, opinions, and football trends -- where would you be?

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There’s also the “moneyball” approach.

Most teams only routinely hit on 40% of their draft picks. Draft ten players. Keep four of them.

Also, you trade down in R2-R3 for extra draft picks in the next year’s draft (e.g. #66 for a R2 & a R4 in 2020... so that you already have nine draft picks for next year).

At the same time, when “your guy” is within striking distance, you have the draft collateral to acquire him.

I would be really into the idea that if you don't trade up in the first round or up into the high second, start trading back for 2020 picks. A couple extra and that likely 3rd round comp pick, you have some real ammunition for a big move in 2020.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I would be really into the idea that if you don't trade up in the first round or up into the high second, start trading back for 2020 picks. A couple extra and that likely 3rd round comp pick, you have some real ammunition for a big move in 2020.

I disagree. If they don't trade up, I think you take BPA and get 4 good young players in the first 2 days. I think you can get guys at TE, WR, ILB, OLB or CB that can maybe contribute this year or next and help to spread cap room around to other veteran players that will need contracts. I think those 5th round picks are sweet spots for rotational guys on D line, O line, OLB, or special teamers. Just have to pick football players and not project athletes.

[Mojouw]

I disagree. If they don't trade up, I think you take BPA and get 4 good young players in the first 2 days. I think you can get guys at TE, WR, ILB, OLB or CB that can maybe contribute this year or next and help to spread cap room around to other veteran players that will need contracts. I think those 5th round picks are sweet spots for rotational guys on D line, O line, OLB, or special teamers. Just have to pick football players and not project athletes.

I guess my thought was if you only trade back say 6-1-0 picks at a few points, you still get those players plus you get something else to try and do the same with next year.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I guess my thought was if you only trade back say 6-1-0 picks at a few points, you still get those players plus you get something else to try and do the same with next year.

Sure, but I guess I am thinking their a lot of good players in this draft in areas they can upgrade for youth. Then not have to pay veteran contracts for guys like Vance McDonald, Dupree, Chickillo, AluAlu, Bostic, etc by 2020.

[Mojouw]

Sure, but I guess I am thinking their a lot of good players in this draft in areas they can upgrade for youth. Then not have to pay veteran contracts for guys like Vance McDonald, Dupree, Chickillo, AluAlu, Bostic, etc by 2020.

That's a really good point. I think they are trying to walk a knife edge in this off-season and next. Improve and win now with Ben R still around. While at the same time build a competitive core for the next run under whoever comes next at QB (Rudolph. other draft pick, whatever). That is a really tough needle to thread! Especially because rookies rarely make SB level contributions.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That's a really good point. I think they are trying to walk a knife edge in this off-season and next. Improve and win now with Ben R still around. While at the same time build a competitive core for the next run under whoever comes next at QB (Rudolph. other draft pick, whatever). That is a really tough needle to thread! Especially because rookies rarely make SB level contributions.

Rookies don't need to make SB contributions right now IMO. I do think a playmaker could be added at TE or ILB that really helps the team this year. I don't think this team has the talent level to make it to the AFCCG, so just looking for improvement to watch some competitive football instead of squabbling and wasted talent like the past couple seasons.

[Mojouw]

Rookies don't need to make SB contributions right now IMO. I do think a playmaker could be added at TE or ILB that really helps the team this year. I don't think this team has the talent level to make it to the AFCCG, so just looking for improvement to watch some competitive football instead of squabbling and wasted talent like the past couple seasons.

Ok. I just think that we all over-state the abilities of a rookie class to impact in year 1. The next rookie TE who does next to anything might be the first. That is one of the longest times to impact. Most rookie WR are more like Washington than Juju. Leonard and maybe Deion Jones are two of the few rookie backers that I can remember really taking off right away.

I guess the question, for me, is that does the draft class change if you go "compete now" versus "best long term team"? And as much as it sucks, I have to fall on the best long term team side of that decision.

[Mojouw]

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2019/03/19/2019-nfl-mock-draft-free-agency-4-rounds-trades-kyler-murray-dwayne-haskins-nick-bosa-josh-allen-quinnen-williams/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001023154/article/bucky-brooks-2019-nfl-mock-draft-30-giants-raiders-take-qbs

https://thegamehaus.com/2019-nfl-mock-draft-march-20/2019/03/20/

More lies and made up mock drafts. I'm getting really good at quickly knocking off websites. Any of you all need something whipped up to convince an employer that you were offered a $500 K a year job from an amazing little start-up?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Ok. I just think that we all over-state the abilities of a rookie class to impact in year 1. The next rookie TE who does next to anything might be the first. That is one of the longest times to impact. Most rookie WR are more like Washington than Juju. Leonard and maybe Deion Jones are two of the few rookie backers that I can remember really taking off right away.

I guess the question, for me, is that does the draft class change if you go "compete now" versus "best long term team"? And as much as it sucks, I have to fall on the best long term team side of that decision.

Heath Miller had 39 catches and 6TD his rookie year. I think he was a big contributor that year with blocking and receiving. I also think that one of the top 3 TE's instantly upgrades the position for the Steelers.

I also think that if Devin Bush falls to #20, that he ends up pushing either Bostic or Vinny to a backup role by the first week that we play the Ravens, as neither have the speed to run with Lamar Jackson. That or Barron plays more in a sub package look, but I still think that all the swing passes that some posters pointed out Christian McCaffrey (and other RB) was easily receiving vs the Steelers last season, would be limited by somebody with the skills of Devin Bush

[Mojouw]

Heath Miller had 39 catches and 6TD his rookie year. I think he was a big contributor that year with blocking and receiving. I also think that one of the top 3 TE's instantly upgrades the position for the Steelers.

I also think that if Devin Bush falls to #20, that he ends up pushing either Bostic or Vinny to a backup role by the first week that we play the Ravens, as neither have the speed to run with Lamar Jackson. That or Barron plays more in a sub package look, but I still think that all the swing passes that some posters pointed out Christian McCaffrey (and other RB) was easily receiving vs the Steelers last season, would be limited by somebody with the skills of Devin Bush

That is all possible. All I am saying is that no matter the talent level a prospect has and the yawning chasm of a roster hole he may fill for a team, rookie years like James Washington's and Terrell Edmunds' are far more common than say Juju's or Heath Miller's.

For me, the rookie class is about who will be best player in year 2-4? Maybe that is the same guy as it will be in year 1. Maybe it isn't. That is where the fun and complete unknown come into play.

[Fire Goodell]

That is all possible. All I am saying is that no matter the talent level a prospect has and the yawning chasm of a roster hole he may fill for a team, rookie years like James Washington's and Terrell Edmunds' are far more common than say Juju's or Heath Miller's.

For me, the rookie class is about who will be best player in year 2-4? Maybe that is the same guy as it will be in year 1. Maybe it isn't. That is where the fun and complete unknown come into play.

Eric Green had 387 yards and 7TD's in year 1. We have a good history when it comes to picking TE's in the first round :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

Eric Green had 387 yards and 7TD's in year 1. We have a good history when it comes to picking TE's in the first round :chuckle:

I really think you should change your password. It is clear that Shoes has hacked your account.

[Fire Goodell]

I really think you should change your password. It is clear that Shoes has hacked your account.

Haha no I'm positive he hasn't :chuckle: I'm guessing he wants one of the top TE's in the draft too? Honestly I think TE and ILB are biggest needs, so I wouldn't complain if we picked either.

[Mojouw]

Haha no I'm positive he hasn't :chuckle: I'm guessing he wants one of the top TE's in the draft too? Honestly I think TE and ILB are biggest needs, so I wouldn't complain if we picked either.

Agree! Either one would be fine. I guess I should wander over to that list all the guys thread and go on record.

[hawaiiansteeler]

pedantic

no fair using words he doesn't know the meaning of.

now he's going to have to Google-Fu it, and we already know he's not very good at that.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That is all possible. All I am saying is that no matter the talent level a prospect has and the yawning chasm of a roster hole he may fill for a team, rookie years like James Washington's and Terrell Edmunds' are far more common than say Juju's or Heath Miller's.

For me, the rookie class is about who will be best player in year 2-4? Maybe that is the same guy as it will be in year 1. Maybe it isn't. That is where the fun and complete unknown come into play.

Agreed. If we don't expect the rookie to really contribute until year 2-4 and that decent ILB or TE talent isn't yet on the roster, then no time to draft them like the present. Otherwise we will keep complaining that the Steelers don't have a replacement for Heath Miller or Ryan Shazier for the next 3-5 seasons.

Its repeating the O line debacle of the mid 2000 all over again. Keep drafting Tony Hills, Darnell Stapleton, Kemoeatu, etc and expect the O line to play well. SMH.

[Mojouw]

no fair using words he doesn't know the meaning of.

now he's going to have to Google-Fu it, and we already know he's not very good at that.

Oh, man. Made my day. I mean knowledge is power...it can be like one of those word a day calendars.

[pczach]

no fair using words he doesn't know the meaning of.

now he's going to have to Google-Fu it, and we already know he's not very good at that.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PwBhgWyhyY

[munchy]

Nope. Didn't lie at all. Nor did I make anything up. I took in information from the internet and then I made my own opinion. I stand by my statement, but will walk it back a bit if that makes you feel like a man. Devin Bush will go top 10 ish in the draft.

Overall, I will make this real simple for you: I do not think you are very smart. I think you intentionally twist and manipulate statements made on the internet into pedantic arguments because your child-like mind needs to win message board debates to compensate for your overall crushing failure as a human being. I also think that you have nothing valuable to offer as your own opinion or insight, just a loud and forceful regurgitation of thoughts created by better more capable people than you. The problem is your feeble mind is unable to actually understand those thoughts and when you attempt to wield them, you just sound like the guy who uses words he doesn't understand in an attempt to not seem like the dumbest paste-eating moron in the room. Almost all the other morons I encounter in my life, I have to be nice to because I got bills to pay. But you, you I don't have to be nice too.

And before you fly off the handle again - remember how this started. I simply suggested in a snarky way that you read better draft sites. That was all. I've snarked at numerous other posters here in the same manner on multiple occasions. Most take it for what it is -- a harmless swipe to lighten the mood a bit. You managed to turn it into some deep personal attack on your fundamental character as a person. So fine, we can have that conversation. I've said my piece. And I get that this is exactly what you want - for me to engage and take the discussion down to your level. At least there you have a chance of competing, right? If we talked about actual information, opinions, and football trends -- where would you be?

- - - Updated - - -



I would be really into the idea that if you don't trade up in the first round or up into the high second, start trading back for 2020 picks. A couple extra and that likely 3rd round comp pick, you have some real ammunition for a big move in 2020.

so you been scouring the internet for 4 days and still could come up with 1 site that backed your lie

'Dude is the most prized commodity outside of edge rusher, LT, and QB. He is gonna go high.'

wow, for you to go on a seriously long rant shows to me just how pathetic of a human you are. to try to insult me just because i caught you lying is pretty low.

[vasteeler]

so you been scouring the internet for 4 days and still could come up with 1 site that backed your lie

'Dude is the most prized commodity outside of edge rusher, LT, and QB. He is gonna go high.'

wow, for you to go on a seriously long rant shows to me just how pathetic of a human you are. to try to insult me just because i caught you lying is pretty low.

:banned:

[Hawkman]

Time for this troll to GO.

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so you been scouring the internet for 4 days and still could come up with 1 site that backed your lie

'Dude is the most prized commodity outside of edge rusher, LT, and QB. He is gonna go high.'

wow, for you to go on a seriously long rant shows to me just how pathetic of a human you are. to try to insult me just because i caught you lying is pretty low.

That’s your definition of a rant? :asskick: First time I’ve used that one.

[Leopardo]

I know him from another forum and he's trolling there too. He can post only negative comments and is always getting on people's nerves. You can't have serious discussions with him and really is no addition to a forum.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Isnt it just Crash with a new username?

Lather, rinse, repeat.