If Mike Tomlin can't get control of Steelers' drama, he might be next to go

[hawaiiansteeler]

If Mike Tomlin can't get control of Steelers' drama, he might be next to go

Shalise Manza Young
Yahoo Sports Feb 23, 2019

I’ve long been a defender of Mike Tomlin.

But there’s now a growing body of evidence that perhaps the Pittsburgh Steelers head coach should get a good deal of criticism, and that maybe he’s not the great leader of men an NFL coach should be.

It may end up costing him his job.

‘We’ll tolerate it now’

A few days ago, I read this piece by ESPN Steelers reporter Jeremy Fowler, “How it has gone wrong with Antonio Brown and the Steelers.” It’s a well-reported piece, featuring quotes from numerous current and former teammates, and emphasizes that while Brown is an incredibly hard-working player on the field and in the workout room, he’s also been given incredible latitude by Tomlin to basically do whatever he wants because he produces on Sundays.

“[Tomlin] essentially told the [team], we’ll tolerate it now because of what he brings on the field, but the minute production stops, you don’t overlook it,” one former Steeler told Fowler about one of Brown’s frequent sneak-in-the-backdoor-to-a-meeting incidents, a story that others confirmed to him.

But one note in particular from Fowler’s story stayed with me:

to read rest of article:

https://sports.yahoo.com/mike-tomlin-cant-get-control-steelers-drama-might-next-go-130052730.html

[Mojouw]

I'm not interested in re-litigating what Tomlin did or didn't do. What AB did nor didn't do. And what former players know or don't know.

But I do think it is interesting that NFL teams are starting to run up against the leading edge of resistance from the players on their potentially outdated training methods.

Like if you go to camp in the same place every year, why stay in crappy dorms? In fact, why leave your state of the art facilities at all? With the rise of Wifi, it isn't like boarding a bus and "getting away" from "distractions" is possible. Reporters are camped out anyway and there are moment by moment Twitter updates.

Honestly, the more I think about it, 30-40% of what the NFL does is just based on tradition with no real effort to question if it is a worthwhile way of doing things...perhaps players see through the rah-rah stuff more and more?

[NCSteeler]

I think forcing the guys to bunk together brings them closer as a unit.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[Mojouw]

That's kinda my point. I know what it's supposed to do. But since this isn't a Disney movie, I don't buy it.

[Michael]

The lack of tried & true discipline is exactly what has gotten the Steelers into this mess. So lets just have everybody do what they want to do. Knock over water coolers, hump the goal posts, fuck & impregnate half dozen girls, when you don't like them shove them down, throw furniture over the balcony, criticize and defame your QB who helped you become the super star you are. Come to meetings when you want , video tape your coach in the locker room and have your individual comfortable affordable & comfortable training camp house I can rant on and on. Football is a team game requiring discipline and uniformity of behavior to some degree . We move from existentialism to millennia narcissism. Well it appears that we have a coach that is COOL with the new way. We have fans that are increasing in numbers that are also COOL. Don't bitch when it all breaks down and your team becomes a joke. I sincerely believe this is a critical year for this franchise. I don't know where Cool Shades thinks the "arrow is pointing " but I think its up his !!!!!!. But he likes the flow and rhythm. I am hanging in there because I enjoy a good comedy/tragedy movie or book. "Here we go Steelers" I used to know where we were going and loved it and now I am not sure. where this team is going. My optimistic nature will endure for another year and I very much hope Tomlin can get this team on the right track, I want to be wrong & humbled and want to see serious run for number 7. It won't happen unless Tomlin makes internal changes and that is hard to do when your in the flow .

[Mojouw]

104 catches on 168 targets for 1297 yards and 15 TDs and 12.5 ypc.

Those are ludicrous numbers.

I really don't think that sleeping on crappy cot with other dudes in training camp is the kinda discipline that generates those numbers. Talent and working on your craft.

[FrancoLambert]

104 catches on 168 targets for 1297 yards and 15 TDs and 12.5 ypc.

Those are ludicrous numbers.

I really don't think that sleeping on crappy cot with other dudes in training camp is the kinda discipline that generates those numbers. Talent and working on your craft.

Talent and working on your craft does generate those numbers.

But now we’re seeing what happens when you believe you’re above the team.

Maybe that attitude develops because you’re not bonding enough with your teammates.

Where do you draw the line. “OK AB, you can rent a house during camp.” “Sorry, TJ, you have to room with Switzer.”

”Ben, you can do whatever you want.”

Are we a team?

[DesertSteel]

I wouldn’t be disappointed to see Tomlin go. I’ve been pro Tomlin up until the end of 2017 and all of 2018. I’m just not sure what he brings aside from bravado, which seems to have gone past the expiration date.

[Mojouw]

Talent and working on your craft does generate those numbers.

But now we’re seeing what happens when you believe you’re above the team.

Maybe that attitude develops because you’re not bonding enough with your teammates.

Where do you draw the line. “OK AB, you can rent a house during camp.” “Sorry, TJ, you have to room with Switzer.”

”Ben, you can do whatever you want.”

Are we a team?

If I ran an NFL team, I wouldn't go to an out of town training camp. I'd stay in my amazing multi 100 million dollar practice facilities and skip the holdover from a bygone era where every football coach figured he had to recreate basic training to build men and forge a team.

No one rooms with anybody unless they want to.

[pepsyman1]

If I ran an NFL team, I wouldn't go to an out of town training camp. I'd stay in my amazing multi 100 million dollar practice facilities and skip the holdover from a bygone era where every football coach figured he had to recreate basic training to build men and forge a team.

No one rooms with anybody unless they want to.

I get what you're saying, but we don't have any evidence that that approach would work any better than old fashioned model. I know there are exceptions and special treatment players all over the league but clearly Tomlin had no control of AB. If the stars have to at a minimum give SOME appearance of having to go thru what everyone else does I think there's a little less resentment. You're analogy to basic training sounds accurate, but I don't know that the results of getting away from that have shown that it's a bad approach. I think MOST younger adults these days are very resistant to the systems and approaches they see (the whole millennials in the workplace argument). I still haven't seen a viable alternative with any proven results

oh...and I have no problem with moving on from Tomlin. I haven't seen much out of him for the last 8 years since our last Super Bowl appearance. We've missed the playoffs 3 times in those 8 years, we've only won 3/8 playoff games and the defense doesn't look any better now than it did when Tebow made us look like idiots in Denver

[Mojouw]

I get what you're saying, but we don't have any evidence that that approach would work any better than old fashioned model. I know there are exceptions and special treatment players all over the league but clearly Tomlin had no control of AB. If the stars have to at a minimum give SOME appearance of having to go thru what everyone else does I think there's a little less resentment. You're analogy to basic training sounds accurate, but I don't know that the results of getting away from that have shown that it's a bad approach. I think MOST younger adults these days are very resistant to the systems and approaches they see (the whole millennials in the workplace argument). I still haven't seen a viable alternative with any proven results

oh...and I have no problem with moving on from Tomlin. I haven't seen much out of him for the last 8 years since our last Super Bowl appearance. We've missed the playoffs 3 times in those 8 years, we've only won 3/8 playoff games and the defense doesn't look any better now than it did when Tebow made us look like idiots in Denver

I have no idea that another structure would or even could work better.

I just think that anytime some system of doing things is replicated over and over and the only reason anyone can seem to provide is that's the way it's always been done, is not a good situation.

I strongly believe that the types of problems recent Steelers rosters have experienced will become increasingly the norm. If faced with that, I'd want to do a top to bottom review of why my organization does the things it does. Maybe it is time to innovate and change to better reflect what players want.

From the outside, it seems like players have gotten cynical enough to b3lieve that they are on the short end of the stick. They will continue to act out. So bring them inside the process.

I'm having a hard time articulating what I mean. I certainly don't want to have the players running the show, but I do believe old school ways of doing things are going to keep making problems worse.

And I'm not certain anyone currently employed with the Steelers is capable of figuring out what the next model looks like.

[NCSteeler]

104 catches on 168 targets for 1297 yards and 15 TDs and 12.5 ypc.

Those are ludicrous numbers.

I really don't think that sleeping on crappy cot with other dudes in training camp is the kinda discipline that generates those numbers. Talent and working on your craft.Training camp doesn't make athletes it makes a team. Comradery is form in common bonds

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

I get what you're saying, but we don't have any evidence that that approach would work any better than old fashioned model. I know there are exceptions and special treatment players all over the league but clearly Tomlin had no control of AB. If the stars have to at a minimum give SOME appearance of having to go thru what everyone else does I think there's a little less resentment. You're analogy to basic training sounds accurate, but I don't know that the results of getting away from that have shown that it's a bad approach. I think MOST younger adults these days are very resistant to the systems and approaches they see (the whole millennials in the workplace argument). I still haven't seen a viable alternative with any proven results

oh...and I have no problem with moving on from Tomlin. I haven't seen much out of him for the last 8 years since our last Super Bowl appearance. We've missed the playoffs 3 times in those 8 years, we've only won 3/8 playoff games and the defense doesn't look any better now than it did when Tebow made us look like idiots in Denver

Eagles use that structure and practice at the nova care center. They won a Super Bowl recently.

:dunno:

[munchy]

I'm not interested in re-litigating what Tomlin did or didn't do. What AB did nor didn't do. And what former players know or don't know.

But I do think it is interesting that NFL teams are starting to run up against the leading edge of resistance from the players on their potentially outdated training methods.

Like if you go to camp in the same place every year, why stay in crappy dorms? In fact, why leave your state of the art facilities at all? With the rise of Wifi, it isn't like boarding a bus and "getting away" from "distractions" is possible. Reporters are camped out anyway and there are moment by moment Twitter updates.

Honestly, the more I think about it, 30-40% of what the NFL does is just based on tradition with no real effort to question if it is a worthwhile way of doing things...perhaps players see through the rah-rah stuff more and more?


im sure thats what happened with tomlin

[Fire Goodell]

Eagles use that structure and practice at the nova care center. They won a Super Bowl recently.

:dunno:

I'm guessing that facility was free of New England spy cameras :chuckle:

[Born2Steel]

More reps and tackling in practices. Put the football back in football practice and you get more football players and better football altogether. You never walk at football practice, you run. Mistakes during practice equals sprints after practice means QBs don’t have to call out teammates on radio shows. You want fancy stadiums with jumbotrons and luxury boxes, that means money and lots of it. Investment leads to protecting said investments. Football players become commodities, commodities become divas, divas kill coaching careers.

[Mojouw]

More reps and tackling in practices. Put the football back in football practice and you get more football players and better football altogether. You never walk at football practice, you run. Mistakes during practice equals sprints after practice means QBs don’t have to call out teammates on radio shows. You want fancy stadiums with jumbotrons and luxury boxes, that means money and lots of it. Investment leads to protecting said investments. Football players become commodities, commodities become divas, divas kill coaching careers.

That has been the far too little talked about impact of the last CBA. It restricted padded practices. Which just kills your ability to drill fundamentals.

This is what the players were willing to trade for a lesser slice of the revenue pie. Other than getting rid of practice all-together, the owners have very little to trade next time. So, like the other thread said, the next CBA will be a bitter protracted fight that has a very high probability of producing a strike or a lock-out.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Colbert: Mike Tomlin ‘Manages Player Emotions Very Well’

By Matthew Marczi
Posted on February 28, 2019

Pittsburgh Steelers Head Coach Mike Tomlin has been regarded as a ‘player’s coach’ for a long time. For at least as he has been in Pittsburgh. This phrase has been used as both a compliment and a pejorative, but now some people just aren’t so sure if that’s even true.

If he is such a player’s coach, then it’s hard from the outside to explain the situations that have developed in recent years with players like James Harrison, Le’Veon Bell, and Antonio Brown. Harrison was released during the 2017 season. Bell no-showed in 2018. Brown is looking to be traded in 2019.

Brown is of course the most recent and the most volatile discussion, and has been the driver in the conversation for much of the criticism of Tomlin over the course of the past couple of months, many arguing that he enabled Brown to become the personality that he is now that has allowed the situation to arise to a necessary divorce.

to read rest of article:

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/02/colbert-mike-tomlin-manages-player-emotions-very-well/

[ALLD]

If winning a Super Bowl is the goal, Tomlin should have been gone 2 years ago. The Steelers no longer are capable of retaining their best talent for multiple reasons. How the underperforming coaching staff stays on board for anything more than being able to say they only had 3 HCs since 1969 is no longer a good reason. Tomlin is way overpaid and should have never received his last extension.

[Edman]

Mike Tomlin is the new Marvin Lewis. The Steelers will not accomplish anything with him, and keeping him on will be a waste of time. Top-tier talent and a franchise QB has propped him up for so long.

He will not amount to anything higher than 10 wins with Ben, and will regress heavily when he eventually retires. He is good with emotions and one-liners, but he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag.

[DesertSteel]

Mike Tomlin is the new Marvin Lewis. The Steelers will not accomplish anything with him, and keeping him on will be a waste of time. Top-tier talent and a franchise QB has propped him up for so long.

He will not amount to anything higher than 10 wins with Ben, and will regress heavily when he eventually retires. He is good with emotions and one-liners, but he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag.
This!!! The exact same thought dawned on me a few days ago. I thought: "Mike Tomlin is the new Marv Lewis of the AFC North!" Then I cried tear and went on with my day.

[st33lersguy]

Mike Tomlin is the new Marvin Lewis. The Steelers will not accomplish anything with him, and keeping him on will be a waste of time. Top-tier talent and a franchise QB has propped him up for so long.

He will not amount to anything higher than 10 wins with Ben, and will regress heavily when he eventually retires. He is good with emotions and one-liners, but he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag.

Yep and art is the new mike brown owning a team because his father is an nfl legend and satisfied with mediocrity and constant underachievement

[DesertSteel]

Oh no!!!!!! We are the Bengals!!!!

[FrancoLambert]

Oh no!!!!!! We are the Bengals!!!!

Let’s close the deal.

Burfict was released, let’s sign him, we’re thin at ILB.

[pczach]

You guys have everything figured out.

Tomlin owned the Bengals and Marvin Lewis. Now that Lewis is gone, the Steelers will never win anything again.

The owner is a total putz, so the entire organization will crumble.

We shouldn't even bother watching or rooting for our team. It's over for us.

Man....this place goes completely negative so fast.

I had no idea everyone could figure this out with so little information and no way of knowing what is true or not about so many things.

[Edman]

You guys have everything figured out.

Tomlin owned the Bengals and Marvin Lewis. Now that Lewis is gone, the Steelers will never win anything again.

The owner is a total putz, so the entire organization will crumble.

We shouldn't even bother watching or rooting for our team. It's over for us.

Man....this place goes completely negative so fast.

I had no idea everyone could figure this out with so little information and no way of knowing what is true or not about so many things.

Mike Tomlin is an excellent coach and leader of men. There is no culture problem. The team is focused and ready to play. The team has no crippling weaknesses coming off a top-notch 2018. Art II is top-tier owner like Dan and his Grandfather before him. Ben is the bestest QB ever. The Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl in 2019. Not only win the Super Bowl in 2019, but repeat in 2020.

[DesertSteel]

Every blade of grass!!

[Craic]

Mike Tomlin is an excellent coach and leader of men. There is no culture problem. The team is focused and ready to play. The team has no crippling weaknesses coming off a top-notch 2018. Art II is top-tier owner like Dan and his Grandfather before him. Ben is the bestest QB ever. The Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl in 2019. Not only win the Super Bowl in 2019, but repeat in 2020.
Only, no one is saying those things. We all see cracks and mistakes in Tomlin. We see issues where the prevailing culture isn't what it once was. Everyone here knows losing Shazier and Burns not developing crippled our defense. While Ben is a great quarterback, no one here would argue he isn't streaky and will have bad games at bad times. So, this post really makes no sense. On the other hand. I've read several posts that really do sound as though the Steelers are at the end of the road with no hope and Tomlin is an abject failure as a coach.

[vasteeler]

Mike Tomlin is an excellent coach and leader of men. There is no culture problem. The team is focused and ready to play. The team has no crippling weaknesses coming off a top-notch 2018. Art II is top-tier owner like Dan and his Grandfather before him. Ben is the bestest QB ever. The Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl in 2019. Not only win the Super Bowl in 2019, but repeat in 2020.

Most mentally challenged post of the year...no offense

[hawaiiansteeler]

Most mentally challenged post of the year...no offense

I think Edman was just being sarcastic...

[DesertSteel]

I think Edman was just being sarcastic...
Clearly, that shouldn't have to be pointed out.

[Moose]

It may be time for Tomlin to go.....I like Tomlin, but it just seems that he has NO control. There are too many games where the team comes out at game time not motivated. The team never seems to have that 'win' attitude when taking the field, especially for bottom feeder teams. There are times he looks to be 'out coached'. I know the kicking game was a reason for some losses, but there were games also were it seems that a good ass chewing and some motivating was not to be seen. Maybe Tomlin is just getting too comfortable in his job and feels that things will take care of themselves. Rooney and the F.O. just doesn't seem like they have that 'we are champion' attitude, like the old Black/Gold, and the present New England teams. All player's/coaches need to be educated that NO JOB's are safe.

[vasteeler]

Clearly, that shouldn't have to be pointed out.

:doh2:Good lord...obviously , when has he ever been positive about Ben or Tomlin

[86WARD]

It may be time for Tomlin to go.....I like Tomlin, but it just seems that he has NO control. There are too many games where the team comes out at game time not motivated. The team never seems to have that 'win' attitude when taking the field, especially for bottom feeder teams. There are times he looks to be 'out coached'. I know the kicking game was a reason for some losses, but there were games also were it seems that a good ass chewing and some motivating was not to be seen. Maybe Tomlin is just getting too comfortable in his job and feels that things will take care of themselves. Rooney and the F.O. just doesn't seem like they have that 'we are champion' attitude, like the old Black/Gold, and the present New England teams. All player's/coaches need to be educated that NO JOB's are safe.

I feel the same...sometimes...

[Mojouw]

What would justify having a "champions" attitude? No one on the team has won a blessed thing except Ben R. Wouldn't that just be arrogant -- the other cardinal sin most accuse this team and coaching staff of?

I know that it is not always the same individuals saying all this stuff but as near as I can tell what people want to see is a humble but arrogant team that plays an aggressively conservative game-plan and employs superstar elite players who are thankful to just be on the roster.