Realistically, what can we get out of a trade with AB?

[Fire Goodell]

Honestly I think with his mental problems and drama, he's become another TO. And like TO, this guy won't net us a 1st round pick despite his talent and skill. We probably get a 2nd for him, thoughts?

As much as I'd like a top 5 pick in the draft, I don't see any team that stupid, even the Raiders.

[Shoes]

I think its very possible to get a R1 pick for him. AB is 31 but he's a young 31, the best WR in the NFL with very little injury history and very consistent as a player. He's not lazy and plays hard. It's not often a guy like this comes up for trade. If there are 2-3 teams gunning for him it's all the better for the Steelers. At the very least I would say an early R2 plus a R3 or R4 and a good player. I think teams that would like to have him aren't concerned about his attitude. There are plenty of teams on the playoff edge that would love to have a WR of his talent. I think teams understand that a change of scenery many times works both for players and teams.

[DesertSteel]

A mid-level player (starter) and a #2.

Or

A #1 in the 20’s.

[Mojouw]

OK. So there appears to be about 3 different things being talked about all at once.

1. AB is just not worth a first round pick becuase of age and drama.
2. AB is worth a first round pick, and a very high one at that.
3. AB is worth a first round pick, but only to a team looking to get over the hump due to age and drama.

That means the Steelers only have 1 out of 3 set-up for trade scenarios in their favor (#2). The others are selling off an asset for pennies on the dollar. Anything less than a first rounder and something else would be horrid trade. Look what Cooks and Copper have done for their new teams and they are lesser WRs than AB. A first rounder from a playoff or borderline playoff team means you are getting a pick between 20-32. To be honest, at that point, what's the difference between that and a top 5 in the second round?

Looking at the top 5 teams in the first round, only two are possible. The 49ers and the Jets. The others are almost certainly staying where they are at to get a QB. Even if you go to the top 10, you have to cross a great # of teams off because they simply lack the cap space (Jags, Bucs, etc). Even a team like the Broncos would have to devote a great deal of their cap space to absorbing AB's 2020-2021 salary. Both the 49ers and the Jets could use a weapon like AB in their offense. Who couldn't? But are they going to want to part with a valuable asset like a top 5 pick for a WR entering the end of his prime on a team that is 1-3 years away from contention? Why not stay where you are and take a cost-controlled playmaker in the first round and a young WR in the second?

That turns us back to "win-now" fringe playoff teams. You would have to assume that the entire AFC is out of the question, or at least the AFC North. Looking at some of the 2020 cap information out there. That leaves basically the Cowboys, Seahawks, Lions, and maybe the Packers. Take the Cowboys out (Copper exists). The Lions out because Patricia wants to establish the run and Golladay is cheaper. Packers I take out because of Adams and the massive investment they have made in young WRs in past 2 drafts.

So the Seattle Seahawks are MojoUW's pick as the "best" trade candidate for AB.

[Hound]

We will get a 1st and more! His contract is cheap for a team that trades for him. 39 million over three years is a hell of a deal! Steelers are going to be the ones who are responsible for the guaranteed money(21mil). Look at the trades that have occurred this past season. The Steelers got a third for Bryant who was on the last year of his contract and had multiple problems. If the Steelers don’t get a first and MORE, Colbert isn’t the GM I thought he was.

[Shoes]

OK. So there appears to be about 3 different things being talked about all at once.

1. AB is just not worth a first round pick becuase of age and drama.
2. AB is worth a first round pick, and a very high one at that.
3. AB is worth a first round pick, but only to a team looking to get over the hump due to age and drama.

That means the Steelers only have 1 out of 3 set-up for trade scenarios in their favor (#2). The others are selling off an asset for pennies on the dollar. Anything less than a first rounder and something else would be horrid trade. Look what Cooks and Copper have done for their new teams and they are lesser WRs than AB. A first rounder from a playoff or borderline playoff team means you are getting a pick between 20-32. To be honest, at that point, what's the difference between that and a top 5 in the second round?

Looking at the top 5 teams in the first round, only two are possible. The 49ers and the Jets. The others are almost certainly staying where they are at to get a QB. Even if you go to the top 10, you have to cross a great # of teams off because they simply lack the cap space (Jags, Bucs, etc). Even a team like the Broncos would have to devote a great deal of their cap space to absorbing AB's 2020-2021 salary. Both the 49ers and the Jets could use a weapon like AB in their offense. Who couldn't? But are they going to want to part with a valuable asset like a top 5 pick for a WR entering the end of his prime on a team that is 1-3 years away from contention? Why not stay where you are and take a cost-controlled playmaker in the first round and a young WR in the second?

That turns us back to "win-now" fringe playoff teams. You would have to assume that the entire AFC is out of the question, or at least the AFC North. Looking at some of the 2020 cap information out there. That leaves basically the Cowboys, Seahawks, Lions, and maybe the Packers. Take the Cowboys out (Copper exists). The Lions out because Patricia wants to establish the run and Golladay is cheaper. Packers I take out because of Adams and the massive investment they have made in young WRs in past 2 drafts.

So the Seattle Seahawks are MojoUW's pick as the "best" trade candidate for AB.


Well, there are diva coaches and owners so I'll add the sea-pheasants to my list. :chuckle:

- - - Updated - - -


We will get a 1st and more! His contract is cheap for a team that trades for him. 39 million over three years is a hell of a deal! Steelers are going to be the ones who are responsible for the guaranteed money(21mil). Look at the trades that have occurred this past season. The Steelers got a third for Bryant who was on the last year of his contract and had multiple problems. If the Steelers don’t get a first and MORE, Colbert isn’t the GM I thought he was.

The team that gets him will be getting the best WR in the NFL for 12 mil, much cheaper and a bigger playmaker than L.Bell.

[AtlantaDan]

So the Seattle Seahawks are MojoUW's pick as the "best" trade candidate for AB.

Jason LaCanfora has Seattle on the list of trade partners

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-seeking-a-first-round-pick-for-antonio-brown-trade-talks-to-begin-at-combine/

Seahawks have $60M in 2019 cap space to take on the contract

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/cap/2019/

Add to that if there is a team that rivals the Steelers for players acting out it has been the Seahawks and Pete Carroll, who signed a mega-$$$ extension with the job security that goes with it, being able to manage strong personalities.

Question is whether Russell Wilson feels like dealing with a potential (inevitable?) headache such as AB after a number of the vets such as Richard Sherman who sniped at him when Wilson was a younger QB are gone. Any team with an established QB is going to need the QB to buy in on adding AB.

This article suggested Seattle stay away not only because of AB's drama but since Seahawks already are down to 4 draft picks in 2019 for any trade

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/15/seahawks-should-steer-clear-of-trade-steelers-wide-receiver-antonio-brown/

[BlackAndGold]

If Brandin Cooks can return a 1st round pick twice in two years, AB can also bring back a 1st.

Not sure if they'll land a top 10 pick but I'm sure there is some team out there that is desperate for a star WR. Someone will pay up Imo.

[Mojouw]

Jason LaCanfora has Seattle on the list of trade partners

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-seeking-a-first-round-pick-for-antonio-brown-trade-talks-to-begin-at-combine/

Seahawks have $60M in 2019 cap space to take on the contract

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/cap/2019/

Add to that if there is a team that rivals the Steelers for players acting out it has been the Seahawks and Pete Carroll, who signed a mega-$$$ extension with the job security that goes with it, being able to manage strong personalities.

Question is whether Russell Wilson feels like dealing with a potential (inevitable?) headache such as AB after a number of the vets such as Richard Sherman who sniped at him when Wilson was a younger QB are gone. Any team with an established QB is going to need the QB to buy in on adding AB.

This article suggested Seattle stay away not only because of AB's drama but since Seahawks already are down to 4 draft picks in 2019 for any trade

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/15/seahawks-should-steer-clear-of-trade-steelers-wide-receiver-antonio-brown/

Crap. Didn't know they are down so many picks. yeah, they aren't trading for AB. They made the most sense, you know, aside from the lack of trade resources...

[DesertSteel]

OK. So there appears to be about 3 different things being talked about all at once.

1. AB is just not worth a first round pick becuase of age and drama.
2. AB is worth a first round pick, and a very high one at that.
3. AB is worth a first round pick, but only to a team looking to get over the hump due to age and drama.

That means the Steelers only have 1 out of 3 set-up for trade scenarios in their favor (#2). The others are selling off an asset for pennies on the dollar. Anything less than a first rounder and something else would be horrid trade. Look what Cooks and Copper have done for their new teams and they are lesser WRs than AB. A first rounder from a playoff or borderline playoff team means you are getting a pick between 20-32. To be honest, at that point, what's the difference between that and a top 5 in the second round?

Looking at the top 5 teams in the first round, only two are possible. The 49ers and the Jets. The others are almost certainly staying where they are at to get a QB. Even if you go to the top 10, you have to cross a great # of teams off because they simply lack the cap space (Jags, Bucs, etc). Even a team like the Broncos would have to devote a great deal of their cap space to absorbing AB's 2020-2021 salary. Both the 49ers and the Jets could use a weapon like AB in their offense. Who couldn't? But are they going to want to part with a valuable asset like a top 5 pick for a WR entering the end of his prime on a team that is 1-3 years away from contention? Why not stay where you are and take a cost-controlled playmaker in the first round and a young WR in the second?

That turns us back to "win-now" fringe playoff teams. You would have to assume that the entire AFC is out of the question, or at least the AFC North. Looking at some of the 2020 cap information out there. That leaves basically the Cowboys, Seahawks, Lions, and maybe the Packers. Take the Cowboys out (Copper exists). The Lions out because Patricia wants to establish the run and Golladay is cheaper. Packers I take out because of Adams and the massive investment they have made in young WRs in past 2 drafts.

So the Seattle Seahawks are MojoUW's pick as the "best" trade candidate for AB.
You just made Russell Wilson a very happy man.

[st33lersguy]

Amari Cooper netted a 1st round pick. Someone mentioned Brandin Cooks getting a 1st 2 years in a row, and he reportedly had some character concerns of his own and he isn't nearly as productive as AB. If they can't net a first for someone of AB's caliber (even in 2020) then this organization has serious problems at the top

[steelreserve]

If we can't get two first-round picks, or a first-round pick and a player that fills a need, then it's not worth it. Just don't do the trade.

I fully realize that valuation is way higher than what were likely to receive, so: Don't do the trade. Keep the disgruntled player in that case.

We are under no obligation to trade a player with three years left on his contract just because the player decided to be a jerk. It's up to some other team to come up withan offer that knocks our socks off - if not, oh well.

People keep saying "But he sounds like the next T.O." ... well guess what, every team that had T.O. was far better with him on the team than they were with whatever fire-sale price (or nothing) that they got in return.

[Mojouw]

If we can't get two first-round picks, or a first-round pick and a player that fills a need, then it's not worth it. Just don't do the trade.

I fully realize that valuation is way higher than what were likely to receive, so: Don't do the trade. Keep the disgruntled player in that case.

We are under no obligation to trade a player with three years left on his contract just because the player decided to be a jerk. It's up to some other team to come up withan offer that knocks our socks off - if not, oh well.

People keep saying "But he sounds like the next T.O." ... well guess what, every team that had T.O. was far better with him on the team than they were with whatever fire-sale price (or nothing) that they got in return.

Pretty much. If he steps out of line or refuses to play/report, just talk to him in the only language ALL players understand - $$$. Fine him the max at every turn in the road.

[DesertSteel]

I’m definitely pro management so I’m all for never letting the player get the upper hand.

[Shoes]

Pretty much. If he steps out of line or refuses to play/report, just talk to him in the only language ALL players understand - $$$. Fine him the max at every turn in the road.



And the drama will be worse than it is now, no way Rooney plays this game. I believe AJRII has taken this personally and understandably so.

[Mojouw]

And the drama will be worse than it is now, no way Rooney plays this game. I believe AJRII has taken this personally and understandably so.

Too bad. If Rooney is personally wounded, so what? This is a business.

As for the drama, what worse is there? Daily Twitter slap-fights between an army of mental midgets and a star WR not suiting up on gamedays. I mean unless AB decides to act out the scene from "The Last Boyscout" and start shooting people on the field...not sure how it can get more "dramatic".

[Shoes]

Too bad. If Rooney is personally wounded, so what? This is a business.

As for the drama, what worse is there? Daily Twitter slap-fights between an army of mental midgets and a star WR not suiting up on gamedays. I mean unless AB decides to act out the scene from "The Last Boyscout" and start shooting people on the field...not sure how it can get more "dramatic".


Well if he (Rooney) is you won't win that argument. Its bad business if you give shitheads like Bell and Brown a foot in the door to distract the team. Anyway, I'm sure AB is a goner.

[steelreserve]

Well if he (Rooney) is you won't win that argument. Its bad business if give shitheads like Bell and Brown a foot in the door to distract the team. Anyway, I'm sure AB is a goner.

What? Bad business would be sabotaging yourself because of some personal emotional feud. Bad business would be "punishing" bad behavior with something that has no consequences for the player but substantial negative consequences for yourself.

People use the unquantifiable "distraction" argument to justify it, but the distraction would have to be simply immense to outweigh the benefit of having a future HOF, maybe top-5 of all time receiver on your team. I think it's almost impossible for one person to create a "distraction" large enough to cancel out the gain from having Brown on the team. Piss a few people off? Piss a lot of people off? If you're winning games for us, whatever, everyone will get over it or at least tolerate it, they always do.

[cubanstogie]

What? Bad business would be sabotaging yourself because of some personal emotional feud. Bad business would be "punishing" bad behavior with something that has no consequences for the player but substantial negative consequences for yourself.

People use the unquantifiable "distraction" argument to justify it, but the distraction would have to be simply immense to outweigh the benefit of having a future HOF, maybe top-5 of all time receiver on your team. I think it's almost impossible for one person to create a "distraction" large enough to cancel out the gain from having Brown on the team. Piss a few people off? Piss a lot of people off? If you're winning games for us, whatever, everyone will get over it or at least tolerate it, they always do.
its more than a distraction when a guy doesn't show up for work. Wait he showed up but was in wrong uniform and left at half. Twitter wars or arguments with QB are a distraction, what AB is doing now is a detriment. If he mans up and takes accountability all can be forgiven though IMO. The guy deserves another chance probably, I really don't know what his issues are or if they hold water. Im sure management doesn't make decisions based on emotions like a lot of fans do including me but I would not think twice about taking a first rounder for him right now.

[Shoes]

What? Bad business would be sabotaging yourself because of some personal emotional feud. Bad business would be "punishing" bad behavior with something that has no consequences for the player but substantial negative consequences for yourself.

People use the unquantifiable "distraction" argument to justify it, but the distraction would have to be simply immense to outweigh the benefit of having a future HOF, maybe top-5 of all time receiver on your team. I think it's almost impossible for one person to create a "distraction" large enough to cancel out the gain from having Brown on the team. Piss a few people off? Piss a lot of people off? If you're winning games for us, whatever, everyone will get over it or at least tolerate it, they always do.


Sabotaging yourself would be permitting know cancer cells (AB) to remain in your body, and its more than an emotional feud imo. There is a clear pattern that has been left to fester which I think is beyond repair. I don't buy the top receiver stuff anymore. We have had top receivers for years and gone nowhere and aren't winning games, at least enough to get into the playoffs.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I would not think twice about taking a first rounder for him right now.

I would, first rounders can turn out to be Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree and Artie Burns.

[86WARD]

Pretty much. If he steps out of line or refuses to play/report, just talk to him in the only language ALL players understand - $$$. Fine him the max at every turn in the road.

Thing about AB is he’s a selfish, stat guy. He’s not gonna want to miss games. If he does, that puts his chance at surpassing Jerry Rice in Jeopardy.

[steelreserve]

Sabotaging yourself would be permitting know cancer cells (AB) to remain in your body, and its more than an emotional feud imo. There is a clear pattern that has been left to fester which I think is beyond repair. I don't buy the top receiver stuff anymore. We have had top receivers for years and gone nowhere and aren't winning games, at least enough to get into the playoffs.

Was Brown the problem with the team this year? How many games did he cost us with his "distractions"?

How many games would we have lost if he was not on the field at all, and we had Washington as our #2 guy with Switzer, DHB and Justin Hunter fighting for #3? That's a pretty shitty receiving corps.

The one and only question that should decide whether Brown is traded is: Would the picks/players we get in return win more games for us than the player we have? Full stop. If yes then trade, if not then don't. Everything else is just a bunch of bullshit.

[steelreserve]

Thing about AB is he’s a selfish, stat guy. He’s not gonna want to miss games. If he does, that puts his chance at surpassing Jerry Rice in Jeopardy.

This is what trumps all else in my opinion. At thr end of the day, you know Brown is going to play at 100% effort whether he's a headcase or not, and he will probably put up big numbers. Even if it's completely out of self-interest, it's motivation and you know he is going to produce.

I don't especially care what his motivation is. Touchdowns are touchdowns. If he's catching passes for his own selfish quest for fame and glory, guess what, the catches all still count, and help us just the same.

[Born2Steel]

I don't really care about the other teams(trade buddies). It doesn't matter to me what they might want. How much will it cost the Steelers to trade up using AB? That is the only question that matters. At what point does AB become a straight up trade? Because he is worth more to this team than us losing him and losing a pick. Looking at the draft board and what team needs are, I don't see a trade higher than GB at 12, and maybe the Phins at 13. So the question is not 'Is the 12th/13th pick worth losing AB', it's 'is moving up 7-8 spots worth losing AB'. And I don't think in this scenario the Steelers get to keep pick 20. Then the next best options look like the Panthers at 15 or the Vikes at 18. To me it's definitely not worth moving up 2-5 spots if the cost is AB. AB holds more value to the Steelers than the value of what we would get in return. No team is giving up a top 10 pick straight up for AB so that is not even on the table.

[Shoes]

Was Brown the problem with the team this year? How many games did he cost us with his "distractions"?

How many games would we have lost if he was not on the field at all, and we had Washington as our #2 guy with Switzer, DHB and Justin Hunter fighting for #3? That's a pretty shitty receiving corps.

The one and only question that should decide whether Brown is traded is: Would the picks/players we get in return win more games for us than the player we have? Full stop. If yes then trade, if not then don't. Everything else is just a bunch of bullshit.

It's clear from Ryan Clark that AB has been a problem for years, but I do think Ben can be a pain in the ass also. Things have been left to fester and not corrected. That is a coaching issue there. Like I said we have been stocked with WR for years and the best we've done is a one and done. There are other issues besides AB. I think the Steelers will keep their 20th pick and get another R1. Maybe a R2 & R3 or R4 plus a good player. Just have to see how it plays out.

[Steeldude]

A late pick in the 1st or a 2nd rounder. I can't see a team giving up a top 20 selection for Brown.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

A late pick in the 1st or a 2nd rounder. I can't see a team giving up a top 20 selection for Brown. From the little I heard the WR class doesn't sound that great. Could easily see a team that needs a wr for sure giving up a top 20 pick for AB!

[Fire Goodell]

it would be freakin awesome if we could get a herschel walker / ricky williams type trade. I mean for that to happen to the steelers would be great

[teegre]

That depends.

If a team wants him, then it’ll be more. Obviously, if they’re trading for AB, they “want” him. What I mean is a team that feels that it is “one player” away from a championship. Whichever of the three remaining teams that do not win the championship would be good guesses: AB might be the player to set their team apart from the playoff pack.

Note: I highly doubt we send AB to the Chiefs (although, he’d make that offense virtually unstoppable). And, there’s ZERO chance that the Steelers “help out” the Taperiots. The Rams are about to be in cap hell, but they could cut a ton of defenders (since their defense sucks anyway) to make room for AB. The Saints don’t have a R1 pick, but with Brees nearing retirement, that is the team who’d give up a lot to get them over the hump (R2 & R4 in 2019, R1 in 2020).

Secondly, if AB wants to play for the Niners, it makes his trade value more... because, that means that AB will be “happy” going there... and, his happiness (or lack thereof) is why he wants off of the Steelers.

Thirdly, if you’all are correct in that Tomlin is the reason that AB has turned into an a$$hole, then every HC should be clamoring to get AB. “Tomlin sucks, but us other 31 coaches are so much better.”

I do not think that the other coaches think Tomlin sucks; I think that they think that AB is simply an a$$hole (which indeed decreases AB’s trade value).

That said, teams have taken chance after chance after chance on Josh Gordon (“I can fix him; I’m super smart.”) that AB will absolutely garner much interest... especially since coaches are egomaniacs (who think that they can outcoach everyone else).

[zulater]

I would, first rounders can turn out to be Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree and Artie Burns.

They can also be Maukice Pouncey, David DeCastro, T.J. Watt or Cam Heyward. The Steelers are great at first round picks when they don't mark up players in positions of need over the BPA. So if you trade him either be creative and use your other first round pick in a package to get the best player who's also a position of greatest need, or simply use the pick to pluck the highest rated player on your board regardless of position. Can't blow that pick if you get it on a reach.

[zulater]

I don't know what to expect? I would have a hard time trading for a player who quit on a team that was conceivably playing for a playoff berth. But all it takes is one team that is willing to overpay. So hopefully they can get a top 15 pick for him. Raiders have extra picks, I could easily see Gruden pulling the trigger to get AB.