Head Coach And The Team Culture

[Shoes]

I got thinking about team culture after a question about the HC and players in another thread.

Interesting read on McVay and how he changed the culture of the Rams from 2017

It's absolutely refreshing.

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/36065/how-sean-mcvay-changed-the-rams-culture

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/35225/sean-mcvays-plan-to-succeed-as-the-nfls-youngest-coach-empower-others

[Mojouw]

Test will be when the team has to pay everyone and encounters the difficulties and ego clashes that come with that. Or if they fall short of the SB this year.

I think Mcvay is good but I also think Fisher was sooooo bad.

[Shoes]

Test will be when the team has to pay everyone and encounters the difficulties and ego clashes that come with that. Or if they fall short of the SB this year.

I think Mcvay is good but I also think Fisher was sooooo bad.


McVay is only going to get better, he started by building a good foundation. I'd take him in a second.

[st33lersguy]

McVay is great and it's crazy how he only will get better with more experience. The way he handled all the big egos the team added and got them to coalesce as one alone was amazing

[Born2Steel]

Rams defense has Talib, Peters, Brockers, Suh, Donald, Barron, Fowler, and Joyner who are former 1st round or 2nd round picks.

Rams offense has Saffold, Whitworth, Havenstein, Goff, Gurley, Everett, Cooks, and Woods who are former 1st or 2nd round picks.

Not bringing McVay's coaching ability into question with this. But since even Chris Collinsworth joked during yesterday's game that even McVay's server at Starbucks was getting HC/OC offers, how much of the Ram's success is due to pure player talent vs McVay's coaching talent? We were discussing this at work and there really is no wrong answer, but it is interesting to talk about. If McCarthy had this team would he have had enough success to keep his job? Bowles? Any one of the other 6? Just saying there is an element of 'This is just a very talented team'.

[Shoes]

Rams defense has Talib, Peters, Brockers, Suh, Donald, Barron, Fowler, and Joyner who are former 1st round or 2nd round picks.

Rams offense has Saffold, Whitworth, Havenstein, Goff, Gurley, Everett, Cooks, and Woods who are former 1st or 2nd round picks.

Not bringing McVay's coaching ability into question with this. But since even Chris Collinsworth joked during yesterday's game that even McVay's server at Starbucks was getting HC/OC offers, how much of the Ram's success is due to pure player talent vs McVay's coaching talent? We were discussing this at work and there really is no wrong answer, but it is interesting to talk about. If McCarthy had this team would he have had enough success to keep his job? Bowles? Any one of the other 6? Just saying there is an element of 'This is just a very talented team'.


I don't know how anyone could read those two articles and not see how the guy changed the team CULTURE. Even more so when the players are saying so. These articles were written in 2017. If you have anarchy on the team, it doesn't matter how much talent you have. If you have a team of good players all playing by the same team rules you have success.

[Mach1]

Rams defense has Talib, Peters, Brockers, Suh, Donald, Barron, Fowler, and Joyner who are former 1st round or 2nd round picks.

Rams offense has Saffold, Whitworth, Havenstein, Goff, Gurley, Everett, Cooks, and Woods who are former 1st or 2nd round picks.

Not bringing McVay's coaching ability into question with this. But since even Chris Collinsworth joked during yesterday's game that even McVay's server at Starbucks was getting HC/OC offers, how much of the Ram's success is due to pure player talent vs McVay's coaching talent? We were discussing this at work and there really is no wrong answer, but it is interesting to talk about. If McCarthy had this team would he have had enough success to keep his job? Bowles? Any one of the other 6? Just saying there is an element of 'This is just a very talented team'.

Put Tomlin in charge of that team and he'd have them underachieving in no time.

[st33lersguy]

Put Tomlin in charge of that team and he'd have them underachieving in no time.

And Talib, Peters, Suh, Donald, Cooks, and possibly Gurley will all be acting up/no showing to try and get released/traded

[Mojouw]

I don't know how anyone could read those two articles and not see how the guy changed the team CULTURE. Even more so when the players are saying so. These articles were written in 2017. If you have anarchy on the team, it doesn't matter how much talent you have.

No one is disputing that McVay changed things for the better. Things are good when you are winning and everyone is getting new contracts. Same types of articles were written in the first few years of Tomlins tenure and he was taking over for a HOF coach not Jeff "9-7" Fisher.

If they don't win the SB this year and they start facing contract issues, unfilled expectations, etc. let's see what happens.

McVay is impressive and one of the few I'd have little hesitation swapping Tomlin for. But it will be interesting to see where it all goes.

[Mojouw]

And Talib, Peters, Suh, Donald, Cooks, and possibly Gurley will all be acting up/no showing to try and get released/traded

Donald did that. Hurley repeatedly said he would if the team didn't pay up. We will have to see with the rest of the ticking time bomb crew.

[Shoes]

No one is disputing that McVay changed things for the better. Things are good when you are winning and everyone is getting new contracts. Same types of articles were written in the first few years of Tomlins tenure and he was taking over for a HOF coach not Jeff "9-7" Fisher.

If they don't win the SB this year and they start facing contract issues, unfilled expectations, etc. let's see what happens.

McVay is impressive and one of the few I'd have little hesitation swapping Tomlin for. But it will be interesting to see where it all goes.


He's going to be fine. "McVay's beliefs are grounded in books and theories and history, with Bill Walsh and John Wooden serving as his bedrocks."

[teegre]

Test will be when the team has to pay everyone and encounters the difficulties and ego clashes that come with that. Or if they fall short of the SB this year.

I think Mcvay is good but I also think Fisher was sooooo bad.

The Legion of Boom was amazing... until... all of those rookies needed contracts (specifically, the franchise QB). As I’ve said, in today’s NFL, you (almost) have to win with a QB on his rookie contract. Just wait until Goff takes away money/players from the defense.

In fact, aren’t the Rams over the cap for next season already???

[Shoes]

Donald did that. Hurley repeatedly said he would if the team didn't pay up. We will have to see with the rest of the ticking time bomb crew.

If they have a standard then those who step out of it will face the consequences. I don't recall Bill up in NE every having an issue with this. It's refreshing to see a young guy (McVay) taking his position with zeal.

[Mojouw]

If they have a standard then those who step out of it will face the consequences. I don't recall Bill up in NE every having an issue with this. It's refreshing to see a young guy (McVay) taking his position with zeal.

We will see. Donald held out over money and they paid him. They essentially gave Gurley the contract Bell wanted. What happens when they can't or won't pay a guy?

Bill has dodged the issue by trading anyone not named Brady before he had to pay them. Wilfork, Collins, Jones, Cooks, and others.

[Shoes]

We will see. Donald held out over money and they paid him. They essentially gave Gurley the contract Bell wanted. What happens when they can't or won't pay a guy?

Bill has dodged the issue by trading anyone not named Brady before he had to pay them. Wilfork, Collins, Jones, Cooks, and others.

But he has been very successful with nothing interfering with the function of the team. Sounds like how you win.

[teegre]

We will see. Donald held out over money and they paid him. They essentially gave Gurley the contract Bell wanted. What happens when they can't or won't pay a guy?

Bill has dodged the issue by trading anyone not named Brady before he had to pay them. Wilfork, Collins, Jones, Cooks, and others.

I heard that Aaron Hernandez is still hanging around...

(Too soon?)

[Mojouw]

I heard that Aaron Hernandez is still hanging around...

(Too soon?)

Nice.

[Shoes]

I heard that Aaron Hernandez is still hanging around...

(Too soon?)

Yes; he revealed himself and he was gone and the Pats continued on winning like he was never there and he (Hernandez) didn't run the team like Harrison, Bell, AB, and a few others or he would have been gone sooner.

[Mojouw]

[/B]But he has been very successful with nothing interfering with the function of the team. Sounds like how you win.

An argument could be made that a Pats team WITH Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins would've won the SB. Instead their lack of a pass rush and speed in their linebackers were two of the primary reasons they lost to the Eagles.

Pats are a great team run by a Mastermind. But they are not without fault.

[teegre]

There’s Bill Belichick... and everyone else.

McVay has done very well, but that window can (will) close quickly.

[pczach]

All I know is that it's a lot easier getting to the top than it is staying at the top.

When a coach is successful enough to stay with one team long enough to have to deal with giving out big contracts to stars and restocking a roster while still picking late in the draft...that is the true measure of his abilities.

There are a lot of coaches that can have success when they take over a roster loaded with high draft picks that the last regime couldn't do anything with and a good number of cheap contracts because the team underperformed and the players are undervalued. If they are able to obtain a quality quarterback in the draft, the team should succeed for a number of years.

Of course, the ability of the front office to obtain talent is part of that equation, but there is a reason not many coaches stay with one team for a long time.

[Shoes]

I'm not going to defend Bill, enough to say he runs a tight ship and it works. I'm just happy to see a youthful and refreshing head coach (McVay) who gets it and lays a good foundation at the beginning. Chances are he won't have to deal with a team culture issues after 10 plus years as a HC like Harrison snoring and players missing or showing up late for a team meetings or not showing up on game day, with no discipline handed out. culture things.

[ALLD]

Put Tomlin in charge of that team and he'd have them underachieving in no time.

They would lose to the 49ers.

[86WARD]

Rams defense has Talib, Peters, Brockers, Suh, Donald, Barron, Fowler, and Joyner who are former 1st round or 2nd round picks.

Rams offense has Saffold, Whitworth, Havenstein, Goff, Gurley, Everett, Cooks, and Woods who are former 1st or 2nd round picks.

Not bringing McVay's coaching ability into question with this. But since even Chris Collinsworth joked during yesterday's game that even McVay's server at Starbucks was getting HC/OC offers, how much of the Ram's success is due to pure player talent vs McVay's coaching talent? We were discussing this at work and there really is no wrong answer, but it is interesting to talk about. If McCarthy had this team would he have had enough success to keep his job? Bowles? Any one of the other 6? Just saying there is an element of 'This is just a very talented team'.

Thats also a lot of personalities and egos hes managing and managing them well.

[st33lersguy]

They would lose to the 49ers.

And the cardinals

[teegre]

I thought that it was here, but it must have been in a similar thread

Anyway, someone mentioned how the “four best coaches in the NFL” are playing this upcoming weekend.

BELICHICK:
I will give you Belichick every time. He’s a cheater, which I loathe... especially because he doesn’t need to cheat in order to excel. Regardless, he’s a great coach.

PAYTON:
Has missed the playoffs in 4 of the last 7 seasons... with the best (IMO) QB in the NFL.

REID:
1-4 with the Chiefs in the playoffs.

McVAY:
He’s the only one worthy of duscussion (which is probably why Shoes started this thread).

Okay... carry on.

[86WARD]

Payton constantly, this season, attempted to out coach himself by putting Hill in at QB, He runs “Todd Haley” type gadget plays that ends drives, he makes a lot of poor decisions as well.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I thought that it was here, but it must have been in a similar thread

Anyway, someone mentioned how the “four best coaches in the NFL” are playing this upcoming weekend.

BELICHICK:
I will give you Belichick every time. He’s a cheater, which I loathe... especially because he doesn’t need to cheat in order to excel. Regardless, he’s a great coach.

PAYTON:
Has missed the playoffs in 4 of the last 7 seasons... with the best (IMO) QB in the NFL.

REID:
1-4 with the Chiefs in the playoffs.

McVAY:
He’s the only one worthy of duscussion (which is probably why Shoes started this thread).

Okay... carry on.

Thank you! :applaudit:

Fan perspective is so reactionary and short sighted. If the Eagles and Colts won on the weekend, the narrative would be "Frank Reich and Doug Pederson are the best young coaches not named McVay and Andy Reid and Sean Payton are washed up relics of the old NFL".

As for the Steelers HC and Culture. I think Tomlin is a good coach. I also think that the Head Coach should have separation from the locker room and he should have some kind of leadership group that would keep order and direction. Guys from that group would also likely be a conduit for information and direction with the HC. You can bet that if stuff got sideways in the past, that Porter, Farrior, Keisel, Ward, Hampton, etc helped straighten them out.

I think that Tomlin doesn't have that separation from players in the locker room and when he has given the stars of the team a pass for certain behavior, there is no leadership group within the locker room. There is a hierarchy of Stars, then starters on the 2nd level and backups on the lower level of the hierarchy. When the stars of the team act up, then there is no accountability within the locker room, as Tomlin has given them preferential treatment and enabled that feeling of entitlement.

[tube517]

As for the Steelers HC and Culture. I think Tomlin is a good coach. I also think that the Head Coach should have separation from the locker room and he should have some kind of leadership group that would keep order and direction. Guys from that group would also likely be a conduit for information and direction with the HC. You can bet that if stuff got sideways in the past, that Porter, Farrior, Keisel, Ward, Hampton, etc helped straighten them out.

This right here.

No Potsie "Poker" crew on this team right now to keep the locker room steady.

[Dwinsgames]

The rams are a heck of a team but one has to wonder why the defense is " not good" with all the perceived talent it has ........

[Mojouw]

I don't think any veteran leadership ever assembled would've done much to change the most recent and visible "drama" outcomes:

1. Harrison was a veteran and suppossed leader.
2. Martavis Bryant is a mental health issue and substance abuser.
3. Leveon Bell was C.R.E.A.M.
4. Antonio Brown is well...this one might...maybe....oh I have no idea.

3 of the 4 had very little to do with leaderhsip or lack thereof. They had to do with the decisions made by an individual that had little to do with team or anything but selfish actions.

I still believe there is a great deal of leadership and accountability on this team. Each Sunday I watch the team play and there are never heads down on the sideline, regardless of score. I watch the team come back from multi-score deficits on a regular basis. I see guys like AB blocking downfield for their teammates. I see defensive players doing the dirty work so other guys can get free on the pass rush. Someone posted about those Oilers teams and how I member said they needed therapy. I remember those teams folding whenever they faced adversity. I truly believe that Mike Tomlin's Steelers teams have simply gone back out onto the field and tried to play their way back into every football game. That has to come from somewhere.

The 2018 team didn't have a single bounce go their way. I think that is about as complicated as the discussion needs to be. I can not remember a squad that just had this much Murphy's Law.

- - - Updated - - -


The rams are a heck of a team but one has to wonder why the defense is " not good" with all the perceived talent it has ........

Great point. They seem to struggle whenever Talib is out or has a bad day. Kinda uncanny...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This right here.

No Potsie "Poker" crew on this team right now to keep the locker room steady.

Yeah, I heard Willie McGinist once talk about how there was always a group of veteran leaders in the Pats locker room that kept control of the culture and focus of the team. He kind of elaborates on it in this article.


“I don’t think there’s enough [emphasis] put on the leadership role, in not only having players being productive, but respecting and cherishing those leaders that you have,” McGinest told the Herald. “I think it’s a great example not just with the Patriots, but with a lot of teams in the NFL. There’s a distance between the coaches and the players. And regardless of how a coach’s relationship is with his players, there’s always a small buffer there.McGinest also said that when he was on the team from 1994 to 2005, there were never any instances of players publicly questioning the head coach like Thomas did because the player-leaders held their teammates accountable for their actions.


Read more at: https://nesn.com/2010/01/willie-mcginest-weighs-in-on-patriots-leadership-issues/

[86WARD]

Harrison was a veteran leader and when he arrived the second time, the defense went from trash to solid in no time. Many here were saying just having his presence was worth the pay check. You can’t discount that and then when your leader goes rogue, so does everyone else...

[zulater]

Got a feeling the team culture will not be an issue next season with AB and LeVeon gone.

[Mojouw]

Harrison was a veteran leader and when he arrived the second time, the defense went from trash to solid in no time. Many here were saying just having his presence was worth the pay check. You can’t discount that and then when your leader goes rogue, so does everyone else...

I felt it back then and I strongly believe it now - James Harrison is a great football player, a manical workout beast, but he is not a leader.

He has never played a role in mentoring players -- many have remarked on his example, but not his working with them to be a better linebacker or pass rusher. He did bring a few guys to work out with him in the off-season on strength and conditioning, so that is a major plus. But Harrison rarely sacrificed for team. He complained about playing time. He complained about dropping into coverages. He never attempted to learn how to play the other side of his position - so he couldn't be used in a flexible manner. I don't remember him being a frequent interview or question answering guy - unless it was about him.

To me, VW and Heyward are much better leaders. Great examples. Selfless play style. Never seem to shrink from answering tough post-game questions.

I could be having my usual memory gaps. But that's just how I see it.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I felt it back then and I strongly believe it now - James Harrison is a great football player, a manical workout beast, but he is not a leader.

He has never played a role in mentoring players -- many have remarked on his example, but not his working with them to be a better linebacker or pass rusher. He did bring a few guys to work out with him in the off-season on strength and conditioning, so that is a major plus. But Harrison rarely sacrificed for team. He complained about playing time. He complained about dropping into coverages. He never attempted to learn how to play the other side of his position - so he couldn't be used in a flexible manner. I don't remember him being a frequent interview or question answering guy - unless it was about him.

To me, VW and Heyward are much better leaders. Great examples. Selfless play style. Never seem to shrink from answering tough post-game questions.

I could be having my usual memory gaps. But that's just how I see it.

I think Deebo lead by example. A guy with that work ethic and no nonsense, laser focus is somebody that younger guys will follow. I seem to recall a bunch of the young LB's working out with him and playing "medicine ball volleyball" as a part of their training with Deebo.


I dont think anybody was gonna jerk around, or not work hard in his presence and not get the death stare.

[86WARD]

I think Deebo lead by example. A guy with that work ethic and no nonsense, laser focus is somebody that younger guys will follow. I seem to recall a bunch of the young LB's working out with him and playing "medicine ball volleyball" as a part of their training with Deebo.


I dont think anybody was gonna jerk around, or not work hard in his presence and not get the death stare.

He led by example and his presence was there and the defense clearly had a "mean" attitude when he was there. Not sure if the overall numbers improved, I think the turnover numbers did, but there was definitely a presence there and a return of an angry defense.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

He led by example and his presence was there and the defense clearly had a "mean" attitude when he was there. Not sure if the overall numbers improved, I think the turnover numbers did, but there was definitely a presence there and a return of an angry defense.

A guy like that that plays nasty, instills an attitude to be physical. Its the same as Hines Ward being a "tough guy" as a WR and that physical style of Steeler offense with guys like Bettis.

That is partially why I hate when the run game is totally abandoned....O linemen get a chance to be the Hammer in the run game, but are instead the Nail in pass protection. If you run the football more, you give your O line a chance to be physical and your offense a chance to play physically. Its why I think we will see a Saints/Patriots Super Bowl, because they will both punch their respective opponents in the mouth

[86WARD]

A guy like that that plays nasty, instills an attitude to be physical. Its the same as Hines Ward being a "tough guy" as a WR and that physical style of Steeler offense with guys like Bettis.

That is partially why I hate when the run game is totally abandoned....O linemen get a chance to be the Hammer in the run game, but are instead the Nail in pass protection. If you run the football more, you give your O line a chance to be physical and your offense a chance to play physically. Its why I think we will see a Saints/Patriots Super Bowl, because they will both punch their respective opponents in the mouth

To your point of punching the opponent in the mouth, so did the Rams and so did the chiefs (more so when they had Hunt). All four teams were in the Top-10 in rushing. The Chiefs have since fallen out since the release of Hunt but it furthers your argument that the run game is still VERY important in today’s passing age...

[st33lersguy]

I thought that it was here, but it must have been in a similar thread

Anyway, someone mentioned how the “four best coaches in the NFL” are playing this upcoming weekend.

BELICHICK:
I will give you Belichick every time. He’s a cheater, which I loathe... especially because he doesn’t need to cheat in order to excel. Regardless, he’s a great coach.

PAYTON:
Has missed the playoffs in 4 of the last 7 seasons... with the best (IMO) QB in the NFL.

REID:
1-4 with the Chiefs in the playoffs.

McVAY:
He’s the only one worthy of duscussion (which is probably why Shoes started this thread).

Okay... carry on.

They may not be the coaches with the 4 best track records, but definitely the 4 teams are there largely because of the coaches (and not just head coaches, but coordinators as well).

[teegre]

They may not be the coaches with the 4 best track records, but definitely the 4 teams are there largely because of the coaches (and not just head coaches, but coordinators as well).

Sooo... a completely subjective measure. Got it.