Emmanuel Sanders Puts Blame On Brown And Tomlin; Believes AB Will Be Traded

[Shoes]

Former Pittsburgh Steelers’ wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders weighed in with his thoughts on the Antonio Brown drama for NFL Game Day on NFL Network Saturday afternoon. His opinion probably closes matches with the consensus. Brown shoulders plenty of the blame for his actions, Mike Tomlin helped enable those actions, and AB will eventually be traded.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/emmanuel-sanders-puts-blame-on-brown-and-tomlin-believes-ab-will-be-traded/

[AtlantaDan]

This never would have happened if Peyton Manning was the QB :rolleyes:

[Rotorhead]

This never would have happened if Peyton Manning was the QB :rolleyes:

What?

[Born2Steel]

What?

A reference to something sanders said.

[AtlantaDan]

What?

This from 2014 when Sanders joined the Broncos

Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/5536/ben-roethlisberger) is "disappointed" that he has yet to hear from former teammate Emmanuel Sanders (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/13295/emmanuel-sanders), who called Denver Broncos (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos) quarterback Peyton Manning (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/1428/peyton-manning) a "far better leader" than the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers) quarterback a couple of weeks ago and has since stood by his comments.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11352459/ben-roethlisberger-pittsburgh-steelers-hurt-leader-comments-emmanuel-sanders-denver-broncos

[Bluecoat96]

This from 2014 when Sanders joined the Broncos

Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/5536/ben-roethlisberger) is "disappointed" that he has yet to hear from former teammate Emmanuel Sanders (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/13295/emmanuel-sanders), who called Denver Broncos (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos) quarterback Peyton Manning (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/1428/peyton-manning) a "far better leader" than the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers) quarterback a couple of weeks ago and has since stood by his comments.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11352459/ben-roethlisberger-pittsburgh-steelers-hurt-leader-comments-emmanuel-sanders-denver-broncosJust watched Sanders on NFLN. He referenced this. I have to give him props for sticking to his original statement. Pretty much said that Ben's an a-hole. I am a big Ben supporter, but I can't help but he's the common denominator in all of these issues. Tomlin needed to crack down, but I don't envy Tomlin at all. Your Hof QB really needs to shut the fuck up, but in doing so, you'll probably piss him off into retirement. I do believe that Ben can be real petty when he's ticked off.

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[Shoes]

Sanders was always a good guy imo, people trashed him here because he couldn't catch, but he sure as hell can catch in Denver.

[Lady Steel]

This never would have happened if Peyton Manning was the QB :rolleyes:


:lol:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yeah, at around the 8 minute mark the panel talks about all the comments of the "leader" on his radio show. "AB needs to come flatter on that route", "I would have thrown it all 4 times to JuJu", "blaming the rookie WR James Washington". Then Sanders mentions how he and Mike Wallace had discussions of what they would do if Ben had called them out in the media. Then further he mentions why he made the comments that Manning was a better leader than Ben.

Its pretty clear that AB cant be bailing on his teammates the final week of the season. AB cant expect to have his agent call the head coach and tell him he is ready to play on Sunday. Ben doesnt do anything positive by calling out his teammates in the media and it causes friction within the team.

The Steelers lost leadership in the locker room when guys like Ward, Bettis, Farrior, Clark, Keisel, Deebo moved on. When leadership defaulted to Ben and not many others, the locker room became a group of individuals instead of a really good team.

[Craic]

Yeah, at around the 8 minute mark the panel talks about all the comments of the "leader" on his radio show. "AB needs to come flatter on that route", "I would have thrown it all 4 times to JuJu", "blaming the rookie WR James Washington". Then Sanders mentions how he and Mike Wallace had discussions of what they would do if Ben had called them out in the media. Then further he mentions why he made the comments that Manning was a better leader than Ben.

Its pretty clear that AB cant be bailing on his teammates the final week of the season. AB cant expect to have his agent call the head coach and tell him he is ready to play on Sunday. Ben doesnt do anything positive by calling out his teammates in the media and it causes friction within the team.

The Steelers lost leadership in the locker room when guys like Ward, Bettis, Farrior, Clark, Keisel, Deebo moved on. When leadership defaulted to Ben and not many others, the locker room became a group of individuals instead of a really good team.

Or, they didn't have that experience that bonded them as a team and from which they could move forward. Several older players said they had that experience in 2004 when they were playing in Miami and the hurricane came through. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/21/sports/football/for-steelers-perfect-storm-for-bonding.html

[Dwinsgames]

This never would have happened if Peyton Manning was the QB :rolleyes:

he explains why he made that comment if you listen to the audio ...

sounds to me like AB is 100% at fault ( like most of us assumed ) BUT ...... Ben is an issue as well and may have been the fuse to set off the ticking A.Bomb

maybe resign Ben and put his ass on the trade block as well ...


yeah yeah yeah I know what life before Ben was like , and life before and after terry ( I lived it )

BUT I also see what life with a locker room full of drama is like and how often this team falls short of its potential ...

what could we do with a couple first round picks on top of the one we already possess ?????

it might be time to consider it

[Born2Steel]

he explains why he made that comment if you listen to the audio ...

sounds to me like AB is 100% at fault ( like most of us assumed ) BUT ...... Ben is an issue as well and may have been the fuse to set off the ticking A.Bomb

maybe resign Ben and put his ass on the trade block as well ...


yeah yeah yeah I know what life before Ben was like , and life before and after terry ( I lived it )

BUT I also see what life with a locker room full of drama is like and how often this team falls short of its potential ...

what could we do with a couple first round picks on top of the one we already possess ?????

it might be time to consider it

So are you saying trade AB AND Ben for 1st round draft picks? I’m curious how much traction this idea gets.

[Dwinsgames]

So are you saying trade AB AND Ben for 1st round draft picks? I’m curious how much traction this idea gets.

probably none .... but that does not mean it would not be the most prudent thing to do for a culture change and acquisition of talent perspective and long term benefit to the team ...

most fans would hate the idea

[Born2Steel]

probably none .... but that does not mean it would not be the most prudent thing to do for a culture change and acquisition of talent perspective and long term benefit to the team ...

most fans would hate the idea

I understand your reasoning. I just can’t get behind trading away 2 HoF players for the opportunity to draft somebody I can hope turns out to not be a bust. This may get rid of ‘drama’ but is not a winning formula for how to build a championship team. Now the Bryant trade was a thing of beauty.

[DesertSteel]

probably none .... but that does not mean it would not be the most prudent thing to do for a culture change and acquisition of talent perspective and long term benefit to the team ...

most fans would hate the idea
If you want a culture change start with Tomlin!

[Dwinsgames]

If you want a culture change start with Tomlin!

I am all for that too ... have been ....

blow the thing up , the only 2 coaches I wanted to keep are the two of whom are likely leaving town ( 1 is , 1 rumored to be )

[lipps83]

When leadership defaulted to Ben and not many others, the locker room became a group of individuals instead of a really good team.

Bingo. I think Ben is a huge part of this problem with Brown and Tomlin has done nothing to squash it over the years. Being a HoF QB doesn't automatically make you a leader. He seemingly has very little leadership ability. A leader inspires and lifts people up. Ben doesn't appear to do that much.

[NCSteeler]

I fully agree Ben needs to keep his comments to the locker room and meeting rooms. He does no one any food going on the radio and talking bad about his team mates. I can't believe someone like keisel hasn't called him and told him as much.



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[BEERgods225]

It would at a minimum set a precedent in the locker room that NO ONE is above the team. You play as one or you play somewhere else.

I've been saying for about three years now that I appreciate what the Killer B's mean to this team but I'm tired of the drama and ready to move on. It's one of the reasons I wanted them to draft Mason Rudolph in the first round last year. Like you, I remember the Past and understand that a rookie or second year guy is not likely to play like Mahommes but if it gives you the potential to build something that Drama is repeatedly tearing apart now..... then maybe it's worth the risk.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Bingo. I think Ben is a huge part of this problem with Brown and Tomlin has done nothing to squash it over the years. Being a HoF QB doesn't automatically make you a leader. He seemingly has very little leadership ability. A leader inspires and lifts people up. Ben doesn't appear to do that much.

Agreed, Ben is a HOF QB, but he doesn't lift players around him to play at a higher level, he seems to enjoy putting them down to make himself feel better about his declining skills at the end of his career.

We lived thru the Mark Malone, Brister, Graham, Tomczak, Stewart, O'Donnell, Maddox era's and remained Steeler fans. Reality is that Ben has maybe 2 seasons left and the Steelers will rebuild again....I'll still be a Steeler fan long after the leadership transitions to guys like Watt, JuJu, Rudolph, Conner, etc.

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I fully agree Ben needs to keep his comments to the locker room and meeting rooms. He does no one any food going on the radio and talking bad about his team mates. I can't believe someone like keisel hasn't called him and told him as much.



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Agreed, I find it hard to believe that some of his real friends haven't called him to tell him to not throw his teammates under the bus in the media. Or does he keep in touch with any of those guys from past teams?

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Agreed, Ben is a HOF QB, but he doesn't lift players around him to play at a higher level, he seems to enjoy putting them down to make himself feel better about his declining skills at the end of his career.

We lived thru the Mark Malone, Brister, Graham, Tomczak, Stewart, O'Donnell, Maddox era's and remained Steeler fans. Reality is that Ben has maybe 2 seasons left and the Steelers will rebuild again....I'll still be a Steeler fan long after the leadership transitions to guys like Watt, JuJu, Rudolph, Conner, etc.

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Agreed, I find it hard to believe that some of his real friends haven't called him to tell him to not throw his teammates under the bus in the media. Or does he keep in touch with any of those guys from past teams? Shsh and you guys are going to get a big lecture from Ben supports tomorrow.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

As for AB from what I heard is Ben centered him out at walk through and thew the ball at him in the ground. AB gets pissed and walks off saying he is done! Later Tomlin disciplines AB saying he won't play in the last game. AB shows up for the game in street clothes. Everyone is upset AB left at halftime even though he wouldn't be playing in the game no matter what. Is that fairly accurate ?

[86WARD]

As for AB from what I heard is Ben centered him out at walk through and thew the ball at him in the ground. AB gets pissed and walks off saying he is done! Later Tomlin disciplines AB saying he won't play in the last game. AB shows up for the game in street clothes. Everyone is upset AB left at halftime even though he wouldn't be playing in the game no matter what. Is that fairly accurate ?

That’s what I gather. A guy with that size ego, talent and paycheck has to be handled differently than a guy like Justin Hunter walking off the field. It’s just how it is and Tomlin can’t take sides, which was reported that he sided with Ben. As a head coach, you have to be diplomatic and make nice with all parties...in a case like this...

[AtlantaDan]

Agreed, I find it hard to believe that some of his real friends haven't called him to tell him to not throw his teammates under the bus in the media. Or does he keep in touch with any of those guys from past teams?

Dupree said the other day that the current offense and defense do not discuss with each other what is going on within the other unit. Doubtful Ben is going to listen to former members of the defense and it is well known that Ben & Ward did not get along. That leaves Bettis & Faneca - my guess is Ben is not going to take their advice.

This is a problem within the offense (I do not recall Ben going after the defense in public). Ben is close with his OL so it probably comes down to Pouncey (who Ben keeps claiming is in his band of brothers), DeCastro (who clearly is fed up with the drama) or Foster (as he heads out the door) to tell Ben his style of “leadership” is resented and needs to change.

An easy way for Ben to respond, without admitting he has done anything wrong would be to blame the media (fake news!) for taking his Tuesday morning radio comments out of context and that to prevent the media from creating distractions he selflessly will dump the radio appearances next season

Addressing the bigger problem of getting Ben to tone down his gunslinger persona is another matter. In the Chiefs game yesterday Collinsworth said Mahomes recognized he needed to dial back taking chances after his 3 INT game against the Rams (in which Mahomes threw 6 TD passes). The Ben response to questions about dumb INTs is that he is a gunslinger. That is going to be tough to change at this stage of Ben’s career.

[86WARD]

Ben is gong to have to learn from this and if he and Tomlin are indeed the reason AB is so pissed off, they both are going to have to make amends with AB (as is AB with them and the team). Ben still has a lot of maturing to do both on field and off and if no one (Including Tomlin or Fichtner) wants to help push him in that direction, then the problems on field and off field will continue.

Watching the games this past season and watching some multiple times, there’s a lot of “Haley issues” that are still on the field. Haley is gone. Ben is still here. I love Ben, but he’s definitely got a downside...most which is brought about by poor decisions on field and lack of common sense and maturity off field.

[stillers4me]

Maybe Emmanual Sanders should keep HIS mouth shut and worry about his own team.

[teegre]

This never would have happened if Peyton Manning was the QB :rolleyes:

#studyfilm

[NCSteeler]

Agreed, Ben is a HOF QB, but he doesn't lift players around him to play at a higher level, he seems to enjoy putting them down to make himself feel better about his declining skills at the end of his career.

We lived thru the Mark Malone, Brister, Graham, Tomczak, Stewart, O'Donnell, Maddox era's and remained Steeler fans. Reality is that Ben has maybe 2 seasons left and the Steelers will rebuild again....I'll still be a Steeler fan long after the leadership transitions to guys like Watt, JuJu, Rudolph, Conner, etc.

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Agreed, I find it hard to believe that some of his real friends haven't called him to tell him to not throw his teammates under the bus in the media. Or does he keep in touch with any of those guys from past teams?Far as I can tell from media reports and Ben's website him and kiesel are still close

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[ALLD]

Tomlin has turned the team into a circus. AB is tired of it. AB wants the ball more, but because the team is such a mess he is frustrated. Tomlin coaches by platitude behind dark sunglasses. Vince Lombardi would not put him on his staff.

[NCSteeler]

Dupree said the other day that the current offense and defense do not discuss with each other what is going on within the other unit. Doubtful Ben is going to listen to former members of the defense and it is well known that Ben & Ward did not get along. That leaves Bettis & Faneca - my guess is Ben is not going to take their advice.

This is a problem within the offense (I do not recall Ben going after the defense in public). Ben is close with his OL so it probably comes down to Pouncey (who Ben keeps claiming is in his band of brothers), DeCastro (who clearly is fed up with the drama) or Foster (as he heads out the door) to tell Ben his style of “leadership” is resented and needs to change.

An easy way for Ben to respond, without admitting he has done anything wrong would be to blame the media (fake news!) for taking his Tuesday morning radio comments out of context and that to prevent the media from creating distractions he selflessly will dump the radio appearances next season

Addressing the bigger problem of getting Ben to tone down his gunslinger persona is another matter. In the Chiefs game yesterday Collinsworth said Mahomes recognized he needed to dial back taking chances after his 3 INT game against the Rams (in which Mahomes threw 6 TD passes). The Ben response to questions about dumb INTs is that he is a gunslinger. That is going to be tough to change at this stage of Ben’s career.Difference being Mahommes is a second year player first year starting and his coaches still coach him and tell him to get his shit straight. Does anyone think there is a coach in Pittsburgh getting on Ben's case?

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[AtlantaDan]

Difference being Mahommes is a second year player first year starting and his coaches still coach him and tell him to get his shit straight. Does anyone think there is a coach in Pittsburgh getting on Ben's case?

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Agreed on Ben being to the stage he can say FU to the coaches and there is not much anyone can do about it (and if they do anyone below the HC level leaves town and Ben picks his successor).

Difference may also be Mahomes is a different personality from Ben, who reportedly started having issues with his coaches and teammates his rookie year

[Mojouw]

Agreed on Ben being to the stage he can say FU to the coaches and there is not much anyone can do about it (and if they do anyone below the HC level leaves town and Ben picks his successor).

Difference may also be Mahomes is a different personality from Ben, who reportedly started having issues with his coaches and teammates his rookie year

You mean the entitled jerk is till an entitled jerk - he just got better at faking it? Weird, who would’ve thunk it?

Ben R is a HOF QB but a pretty crappy human and a terrible off-field leader. Has been since day one.

[stillers4me]

You mean the entitled jerk is till an entitled jerk - he just got better at faking it? Weird, who would’ve thunk it?

Ben R is a HOF QB but a pretty crappy human and a terrible off-field leader. Has been since day one.

So you know him personally? It's so refreshing to get an opinion from someone who really knows Ben from first hand experience. It sure shoots the opinions of posers like Jerome Bettis, Brett Keisel, Maurkice Pouncey, and Merril Hoge down the drain.

[zulater]

You mean the entitled jerk is till an entitled jerk - he just got better at faking it? Weird, who would’ve thunk it?

Ben R is a HOF QB but a pretty crappy human and a terrible off-field leader. Has been since day one.

That's an ignorant leap. Yeah we get it. Ben had some early career off the field issues. And granted he sticks his foot in his mouth a few times every season with his comments. But to call him a crappy human being! I call bullshit! Did he not give you an autograph when you interrupted his dinner? Or not tip your bartender friend what he thought he was due? ( I can make leaps too)

Bottom line from what I gather since he's completed his league mandated suspension his off the field behavior has been completely above board. He's seems to be a dedicated family man. True to his best friends. And a good father, son and husband. He's also fiercely loyal to the Steelers and the Rooneys. Has anyone ever seen any indication that he has any desire to not retire a Steeler?

Yes he's got some diva- drama queen in him. But to call him a crappy human is bullshit! I lost a lot of respect for you for that comment.

[AtlantaDan]

That's an ignorant leap. Yeah we get it. Ben had some early career off the field issues. And granted he sticks his foot in his mouth a few times every season with his comments. But to call him a crappy human being! I call bullshit! Did he not give you an autograph when you interrupted his dinner? Or not tip your bartender friend what he thought he was due? ( I can make leaps too)

Bottom line from what I gather since he's completed his league mandated suspension his off the field behavior has been completely above board. He's seems to be a dedicated family man. True to his best friends. And a good father, son and husband. He's also fiercely loyal to the Steelers and the Rooneys. Has anyone ever seen any indication that he has any desire to not retire a Steeler?

Yes he's got some diva- drama queen in him. But to call him a crappy human is bullshit! I lost a lot of respect for you for that comment.

"Early career off the field issues" is one way to put it.

Crappy human being might also be a good fit for what was reported

https://www.si.com/vault/2010/05/10/105935652/the-hangover-roethlisberger

But glad he has not been accused of sexual assault or had to pay any civil settlements for any conduct since 2010 :thumbsup:

[zulater]

Remember when Ben made AB drive 100 mph down McKnight road? A road I wouldn't drive 60 on at 3 a.m on Christmas morn.

Remember when Ben made AB throw furniture off a 14th floor balcony in a fit of rage? Possibly putting a toddler in jeopardy.

Remember Ben making AB pout after finally beating the Patriots because his personal stat line was underwhelming? Find me one instance of Ben not being delighted after a win no matter what his final stats were.

Remember when Ben told AB to have a self aggrandizing press conference with his kids after the Chargers loss? Just as happy as he could be. Team lost but his numbers were great. So what the hell?

Hmm here's what I'm thinking. AB has become a complete ass on and off the field. 5 kids, 4 baby momma's. But Ben who's never had a child out of wedlock is the creep right?

I think I might be done with this board again.

[zulater]

"Early career off the field issues" is one way to put it.

Crappy human being might also be a good fit for what was reported

https://www.si.com/vault/2010/05/10/105935652/the-hangover-roethlisberger



But glad he has not been accused of sexual assault or had to pay any civil settlements for any conduct since 2010 :thumbsup:

Never been arrested, let alone convicted. I read the entire GBI report ( did you?) I not only believe he's entitled to a presumption of innocence I'm also convinced he never committed a crime. Whether he paid off his accusers has nothing to do with it. The situation the second allegation put him on forced his hand in order for him to get back on the field. Perhaps one day I'll explain the case to you where any moron could understand regretted sex after the fact is not the same as non consensual sex?

[AtlantaDan]

Remember when Ben made AB drive 100 mph down McKnight road? A road I wouldn't drive 60 on at 3 a.m on Christmas morn.

Remember when Ben made AB throw furniture off a 14th floor balcony in a fit of rage? Possibly putting a toddler in jeopardy.

Remember Ben making AB pout after finally beating the Patriots because his personal stat line was underwhelming? Find me one instance of Ben not being delighted after a win no matter what his final stats were.

Remember when Ben told AB to have a self aggrandizing press conference with his kids after the Chargers loss? Just as happy as he could be. Team lost but his numbers were great. So what the hell?

Hmm here's what I'm thinking. AB has become a complete ass on and off the field. 5 kids, 4 baby momma's. But Ben who's never had a child out of wedlock is the creep right?

I think I might be done with this board again.

Consider the possibility they are both jackasses and it is not matter of having to join Team Ben or Team AB.

[stillers4me]

Hmmmmm.. ok. I'll bite. Everybody knows the first accusation was a set up. He actually had a counter suit filed against her. Then she got a scumbag lawyer that told her if she was patient and waited long enough, he would pay her to go away to protect his family, present and future. Case #2: Accusers bestie was kicked out of the bar because she called Ben a rapist based on the first false accusation because she was lazy and only read the clickbait headlines. Then the shitfaced accuser was dragged to the ER by her bestie where a rape kit could not confirm a rape took place. Both the little darlings story changed as they sobered up ( I actually read the entire police report in chronological order at one time, not cherry picked for clickbait).

Pan to the DA, who was running for reelection and realized the big fish had slipped the hook. He grandstands to ruin Ben's career, which it nearly did. The accuser refused to press charges (on the advice of her perceptive lawyer) because there was no evidence of a crime. A carefully worded statement was written by her lawyer so his client would not be accused of filing a false police report. Ben paid in spades for being guilty of putting himself in bad situations. And certainly not a good look for the face of a storied NFL franchise. Apparently, Mr. Rooney had faith in him. Moral of the story....the 2nd accusation probably never happens without the first one....which was a setup by a headcase. He should have never have put himself in the position to begin with. Oh....the stupidity of youth.

Secondly....from what I've heard about Ben's wife's family, there's no way they would have given their blessing for their daughter to associate with a "crappy human being" and a rapist or sexual assaulter let alone marry and have beautiful children with him.

But don't let a few facts get in the way of a good smear campaign. He was a young, entitled jerk at one time....but I've know a few of those and that doesn't make them guilty of sexual crimes. Ben was guilty of letting himself be put into those situations, paid the price, did his due diligence above and beyond (with the help of loving family and friends) and has remained loyal and grateful to the Rooney family every since. And has played some pretty good football for them to boot.

[zulater]

Consider the possibility they are both jackasses and it is not matter of having to join Team Ben or Team AB.


I honestly don't think Ben is a jack ass. How's that? He's been one in the past, no doubt ( and that has little to do with the allegations made against him in the past) Overall I think he's become a good man. I think his K9 charity points towards that. I don't have to hate a guy because he is too honest on his radio show sometimes.

But go ahead feel free to do so yourself.

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Hmmmmm.. ok. O'll bite. Everybody knows the first accusation was a set up. Then she got a scumbag lawyer that told her if she was patient and waited long enough, he would pay her to go away to protect his family, present and future. Case #2: Accusers bestie was kicked out of the bar because she called Ben a rapist based on the first false accusation because she was lazy and only read the clickbait headlines. Then the shitfaced accuser was dragged to the ER by her bestie where a rape kit could not confirm a rape took place. Both the little darlings story changed as the sobered up( I actually read the entire report in chronological order at one time, not cherry picked for clickbait).

Pan to the DA, who was running for reelection and realized the big fish had slipped the hook. He grandstands to ruin Ben's career, which it nearly did. The accuser refused to press charges (on the advice of her perceptive lawyer) because there was no evidence of a crime. A carefully worded statement was written by her lawyer so his client would not be accused of filing a false police report. Ben paid in spades for being guilty of putting himself in bad situations. Moral of the story....the 2nd accusation probably never happens without the first one....which was a setup by a headcase. He should have never have put himself in the position to begin with. Oh....the stupidity of youth.

Secondly....from what I've heard about Ben's wife's family, there's no way they would have given their blessing for their daughter to associate with a"crappy human being" and a rapist or sexual assaulter let alone marry and have beautiful children with him.

But don't let a few facts get in the way of a good smear campaign. He was a young, entitled jerk at one time....but I've know a lot of those and that doesn't make them guilty of crimes. He was guilty of letting himself be put into those situations, paid the price, did his due diligence above and beyond and has remained loyal and grateful to the Rooney family every since. And has played some pretty good football to boot.

Thank you! Thank you, thank you! Put it perfectly! As you say anyone who bothered to read the complete report of the GBI would come away convinced no crime was committed.

[stillers4me]

Consider the possibility they are both jackasses and it is not matter of having to join Team Ben or Team AB.

Ben has done far more for the Steelers than AB ever has. Or ever will.

[vasteeler]

Hmmmmm.. ok. I'll bite. Everybody knows the first accusation was a set up. He actually had a counter suit filed against her. Then she got a scumbag lawyer that told her if she was patient and waited long enough, he would pay her to go away to protect his family, present and future. Case #2: Accusers bestie was kicked out of the bar because she called Ben a rapist based on the first false accusation because she was lazy and only read the clickbait headlines. Then the shitfaced accuser was dragged to the ER by her bestie where a rape kit could not confirm a rape took place. Both the little darlings story changed as the sobered up ( I actually read the entire police report in chronological order at one time, not cherry picked for clickbait).

Pan to the DA, who was running for reelection and realized the big fish had slipped the hook. He grandstands to ruin Ben's career, which it nearly did. The accuser refused to press charges (on the advice of her perceptive lawyer) because there was no evidence of a crime. A carefully worded statement was written by her lawyer so his client would not be accused of filing a false police report. Ben paid in spades for being guilty of putting himself in bad situations. And certainly not a good look for the face of a storied NFL franchise. Apparently, Mr. Rooney had faith in him. Moral of the story....the 2nd accusation probably never happens without the first one....which was a setup by a headcase. He should have never have put himself in the position to begin with. Oh....the stupidity of youth.

Secondly....from what I've heard about Ben's wife's family, there's no way they would have given their blessing for their daughter to associate with a"crappy human being" and a rapist or sexual assaulter let alone marry and have beautiful children with him.

But don't let a few facts get in the way of a good smear campaign. He was a young, entitled jerk at one time....but I've know a few of those and that doesn't make them guilty of sexual crimes. Ben was guilty of letting himself be put into those situations, paid the price, did his due diligence above and beyond (with the help of loving family and friends) and has remained loyal and grateful to the Rooney family every since. And has played some pretty good football for them to boot.

Excellent post. This is the way I see it as well.

[AtlantaDan]

Never been arrested, let alone convicted. I read the entire GBI report ( did you?) I not only believe he's entitled to a presumption of innocence I'm also convinced he never committed a crime. Whether he paid off his accusers has nothing to do with it. The situation the second allegation put him on forced his hand in order for him to get back on the field. Perhaps one day I'll explain the case to you where any moron could understand regretted sex after the fact is not the same as non consensual sex?

Yeah I did. I also know Lee Parks, the attorney who the family of the young woman retained, specializes in plaintiff's work in areas including sexual harassment (in addition to posting on this board I practiced law in Atlanta and had cases against Lee Parks in addition to Ben's very fine criminal defense attorneys Ed Garland and Don Samuel).

Not being indicted and convicted becuase conduct cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt is not innocence (at least that was how it worked when I was a prosecutor). If you think there was no significant civil settlement paid to the young woman who was with Ben in the Milledgeville bathroom, that there was no merit to the allegations that resulted in a civil settlement but that the payment was made as a gesture of goodwill to simply to put the unfortunate matter behind everyone, and that there was no relationship between a civil settlement being reached and the young woman deciding to no longer cooperate with the prosecutors I have some news about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny that may disturb you.

You can lecture me to your heart's content about what the Steelers are doing correctly or incorrectly and very well may be right. I am just a fan with a fan's uneducated perspective.

But as for "perhaps one day I'll explain the case to you where any moron could understand regretted sex after the fact is not the same as non consensual sex?" Spare me the condescension when as far as I know you have no particular expertise in the subject matter.

And if you are fine with an adult in his late 20s taking a drunk college girl into a bathroom for at least oral sex good for you.

FWIW you are not the only one who may be ready for break from here. :drink:

[stillers4me]

Civil suits have different criteria than criminal charges. There was no basis for criminal charges in Georgia or they would have been brought. But any lawyer is going to persuade their client that they can get a big payout by filing a civil suit against a high profile celebrity or athlete, justified or not. Do you honestly think that the average Joe would have had to make the same kind of payoff in lieu of a civil suit? Certainly not ones who had not signed a 100 million dollar contract.

So Ben paid her off to make her go away, just like he did the first. Not surprising, since he was engaged and wanted to protect her and his family from something that would get very ugly when he fought back. Turn the page, new chapter.

No one here is saying he wasn't guilty of bad judgement at the time. And have said so repeatedly. Not everybody goes through life without mistakes and regrets.

[stillers4me]

Remember when Ben made AB drive 100 mph down McKnight road? A road I wouldn't drive 60 on at 3 a.m on Christmas morn.

Remember when Ben made AB throw furniture off a 14th floor balcony in a fit of rage? Possibly putting a toddler in jeopardy.

Remember Ben making AB pout after finally beating the Patriots because his personal stat line was underwhelming? Find me one instance of Ben not being delighted after a win no matter what his final stats were.

Remember when Ben told AB to have a self aggrandizing press conference with his kids after the Chargers loss? Just as happy as he could be. Team lost but his numbers were great. So what the hell?

Hmm here's what I'm thinking. AB has become a complete ass on and off the field. 5 kids, 4 baby momma's. But Ben who's never had a child out of wedlock is the creep right?


I'm pretty sure Ben didn't make AB do any of that so it has to have been Mike Tomlin....cue the Tomlin haters! :mob:

[Mojouw]

Amazing how many people are willing to overlook repeated accusations of nonconsensual sex because an individual is married now and chooses to put the word "God" into about every sentence out of his mouth. But can't overlook any of the behavior of the unmarried guy with multiple kids by multiple women.

They are both HOF caliber football players. They are both egotistical and entitled. They are both totally constructed public personas designed in a PR lab somewhere. Both are poor off-field leaders. I strongly believe both are not individuals worthy of much respect or admiration as human beings.

I can think all that and it doesnt matter to me. I don't care what these guys do off the field. Stay out of jail, relatively sober, and show up and ball out for 60 minutes once a week.

I can't wait to root for both on Sundays in 2019 as they headline one of the best offenses the Steelers have ever fielded.

[Shoes]

AB will be traded to Denver and take Sanders Job. :lol: I could see this happening, Elway knows KC is for real.

[Edman]

There is nothing wrong with grown men being who they are. However, the door swings both ways. Ben and AB are free to be and do whatever they want. However, they are not entitled to fans liking them. I could care less about either of them and what they do. They just play for the team I root for and once they're gone, I won't give them a second thought.

No one can deny anymore that Ben is a piss-poor leader and a underachiever, but to call him a garbage human being is pushing it a little. He's just a guy.

[Mojouw]

There is nothing wrong with grown men being who they are. However, the door swings both ways. Ben and AB are free to be and do whatever they want. However, they are not entitled to fans liking them. I could care less about either of them and what they do. They just play for the team I root for and once they're gone, I won't give them a second thought.

No one can deny anymore that Ben is a piss-poor leader and a underachiever, but to call him a garbage human being is pushing it a little. He's just a guy.

He may be just a guy. But he strikes me as the kinda guy that puts on a persona of being a family man and all that goes with that. Then as soon as he gets out of the house it's all about strippers, blow, and cheap whiskey.

I don't know a thing about who the true Ben Roethlisberger is or is not. But I do know plenty of people who were accussed both formally and informally of improper sexy time stuff. Not a single one was a good person. I also know plenty of good upstanding guys. Not a single one of them has been accussed of non consensual sex. So I just call it as I see it. Doesnt mean I'm right and it doesn't mean anyone has to agree.

[zulater]

Yeah I did. I also know Lee Parks, the attorney who the family of the young woman retained, specializes in plaintiff's work in areas including sexual harassment (in addition to posting on this board I practiced law in Atlanta and had cases against Lee Parks in addition to Ben's very fine criminal defense attorneys Ed Garland and Don Samuel).

Not being indicted and convicted becuase conduct cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt is not innocence (at least that was how it worked when I was a prosecutor). If you think there was no significant civil settlement paid to the young woman who was with Ben in the Milledgeville bathroom, that there was no merit to the allegations that resulted in a civil settlement but that the payment was made as a gesture of goodwill to simply to put the unfortunate matter behind everyone, and that there was no relationship between a civil settlement being reached and the young woman deciding to no longer cooperate with the prosecutors I have some news about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny that may disturb you.

You can lecture me to your heart's content about what the Steelers are doing correctly or incorrectly and very well may be right. I am just a fan with a fan's uneducated perspective.

But as for "perhaps one day I'll explain the case to you where any moron could understand regretted sex after the fact is not the same as non consensual sex?" Spare me the condescension when as far as I know you have no particular expertise in the subject matter.

And if you are fine with an adult in his late 20s taking a drunk college girl into a bathroom for at least oral sex good for you.

FWIW you are not the only one who may be ready for break from here. :drink:

A couple things. Assuming there was a settlement, who's side reached out to who? If it was Ben's side that's witness tampering and they still have every right and more grounds to file a civil suite down the road. So that one's obvious. As far as her allegations. I guess you missed the part where the first officer called into it says that the friends were driving the charges? That the eventual accuser giggled and said "whatever ya'll" as her friends made the case she was raped.

There also a good story from a woman college counselor( I'll look up later) in which she goes on to state that sorority girls often slut shame their sisters into making false sexual assault claims. Rather than admit to regretted sex they follow along and make a false claim to appease their friends.

Also when the alleged incident occurred Ben was single, unattached, and in his late 20's. A man in his late 20's having a relationship with a 20 year girl doesn't bother me in the slightest! It turns my stomach when a 40 or 50 something married man has an affair with a girl that young. But a guy in his late 20's isn't that much more mature than a lady that's 20. So no that's no big deal.

And while I understand uncharged nor convicted doesn't prove innocence. But it certainly demands a presumption of such the way I read the law.

I think the second charge never comes about if the first completely specious claim hadn't been made.

Lastly leopards don't change their spots. The chance that a multiple rape offender would just pack it up and stop sexually offending woman doesn't go with established norms. Until there comes additional allegations or evidence I really don''t see where giving the man a presumption of innocence isn't the right thing to do, Steelers player or not. As you prosecutors like to say you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. An uncooperative witness is far from a roadblock to a simple indictment. But none was made. As the prosecutor said when he explained the lack of charges or indictment. We prosecute crimes not bad morals.

[zulater]

He may be just a guy. But he strikes me as the kinda guy that puts on a persona of being a family man and all that goes with that. Then as soon as he gets out of the house it's all about strippers, blow, and cheap whiskey.

I don't know a thing about who the true Ben Roethlisberger is or is not. But I do know plenty of people who were accussed both formally and informally of improper sexy time stuff. Not a single one was a good person. I also know plenty of good upstanding guys. Not a single one of them has been accussed of non consensual sex. So I just call it as I see it. Doesnt mean I'm right and it doesn't mean anyone has to agree.

So you think Ben's going into strip clubs still? Lmao! Guess you've never heard of TMZ sports? Or that everyone has cell phone camera's that go into said clubs? Jeez. If Ben goes out and conducts himself poorly in a public setting that shit's going viral ten seconds later.

Geezus the hate is strong with this one.

[Mojouw]

So you think Ben's going into strip clubs still? Lmao! Guess you've never heard of TMZ sports? Or that everyone has cell phone camera's that go into said clubs? Jeez. If Ben goes out and conducts himself poorly in a public setting that shit's going viral ten seconds later.

Geezus the hate is strong with this one.

You've missed my point at multiple levels. But I'll confine it to this.

I don't hate any of these guys. I very little emotional connection to the players one way or the other. Mostly restricted to how they do or don't play the game.

I think Ben R is one of the greatest QBs I've ever seen play the game. I think during the game he commands respect and admiration from his teammates. They believe Ben can do anything and comeback to win in any situation.

Off the field I think he is a jerk and a person of low intelligence and poor character.

[pczach]

Ben had his indiscretions all under the undisputed "tremendous leadership" of all those great Steelers leaders everyone keeps talking about. He cleaned up some things in his life and has become a better person and a family man from all accounts and is a good father to his children and a positive figure in their lives. Yet somehow Antonio Brown's indiscretions are the result of Ben's bad leadership and it is Ben that has created the environment as AB's life appears to be circling the bowl and his behavior continues to get more and more concerning?

People keep saying Ben had great leadership in that locker room. He did stupid things.....and people say that was Ben's fault. Only Bill Cowher, the front office, and ownership could discipline him. He figured it out and put his life in order after much of that leadership was gone.

People keep saying Antonio Brown has bad leadership in that locker room. He did stupid things....and people say that is also Ben's fault. Only Mike Tomlin, the front office, and ownership could discipline him. Antonio Brown isn't figuring it out, and shows no sign of that happening any time soon.

In their hearts, everyone knows all of that is true, yet many conclude that this is Ben's fault for one reason or another.

AB is responsible for his own behavior, and shame on the people that didn't do something to discipline him earlier.

Intellectual honesty and personal responsibility are being ignored by far too many on this specific issue.

If some people here would take a step back and really remove personal feelings about each player and listen to their own words and conclusions on the subject, maybe they would place blame where it really belongs.

[Mojouw]

Ben had his indiscretions all under the undisputed "tremendous leadership" of all those great Steelers leaders everyone keeps talking about. He cleaned up some things in his life and has become a better person and a family man from all accounts and is a good father to his children and a positive figure in their lives. Yet somehow Antonio Brown's indiscretions are the result of Ben's bad leadership and it is Ben that has created the environment as AB's life appears to be circling the bowl and his behavior continues to get more and more concerning?

People keep saying Ben had great leadership in that locker room. He did stupid things.....and people say that was Ben's fault. Only Bill Cowher, the front office, and ownership could discipline him. He figured it out and put his life in order after much of that leadership was gone.

People keep saying Antonio Brown has bad leadership in that locker room. He did stupid things....and people say that is also Ben's fault. Only Mike Tomlin, the front office, and ownership could discipline him. Antonio Brown isn't figuring it out, and shows no sign of that happening any time soon.

In their hearts, everyone knows all of that is true, yet many conclude that this is Ben's fault for one reason or another.

AB is responsible for his own behavior, and shame on the people that didn't do something to discipline him earlier.

Intellectual honesty and personal responsibility are being ignored by far too many on this specific issue.

If some people here would take a step back and really remove personal feelings about each player and listen to their own words and conclusions on the subject, maybe they would place blame where it really belongs.

I should clarify. For me, and only speaking for myself - I do not blame anything AB has or hasn't done on Ben. Just as I don't blame or credit anything Ben has done to anyone else. Related, I do not believe that just because a player has poor impulse control, is not a leader off the field, and is more than a bit of jerk, doesn't mean they can not be a prominent member of a successful franchise.

[EzraTank]

A reference to something sanders said.

And he's right from the Ben reference. Manning would have never said that stuff about Brown in public.

[Born2Steel]

And he's right from the Ben reference. Manning would have never said that stuff about Brown in public.

Probably true.

[Mojouw]

AB will be traded to Denver and take Sanders Job. :lol: I could see this happening, Elway knows KC is for real.

Maybe Sanders comes here then?

[lipps83]

Lastly leopards don't change their spots. The chance that a multiple rape offender would just pack it up and stop sexually offending woman doesn't go with established norms.

They do when there is literally tens of millions of dollars at stake.

Ben has a lot more to lose than the average sex offender.

[fansince'76]

And he's right from the Ben reference. Manning would have never said that stuff about Brown in public.

Huh? Manning made a career of throwing his teammates under the bus.

[teegre]

Things I trust Ben to do:
-play QB

Things I do not trust Ben to do:
-speak
-ride motorcycles
-chaperone college co-ed events

[Mojouw]

Huh? Manning made a career of throwing his teammates under the bus.

Protection issues...classic Peyton...

[86WARD]

Manning calling Vanderjagt an “idiot kicker”. Much respect!! Very “teammate positive” thing to do...

[stillers4me]

But but Peyton Manning walks on water. :noidea:

[pczach]

I should clarify. For me, and only speaking for myself - I do not blame anything AB has or hasn't done on Ben. Just as I don't blame or credit anything Ben has done to anyone else. Related, I do not believe that just because a player has poor impulse control, is not a leader off the field, and is more than a bit of jerk, doesn't mean they can not be a prominent member of a successful franchise.


I wasn't responding to you Mojouw. I was just making a general statement based on what I am reading from a lot of people here. I started typing it before you posted yours.

Ben was wrong when he put himself in bad situations off the field. He is wrong when he says too much in the media and publicly criticizes players. That's on him.

AB was wrong when he went live on social media with Mike Tomlin's private speech to a closed locker room. He is wrong when he throws a fit on the field and shows his quarterback up all the time. He is wrong when he goes to the sideline and freaks out screaming, cursing, and losing his mind on coaches and quarterbacks,. He is wrong when he trolls ownership, his head coach, and anyone else he tries to show up on social media with pictures and sarcastic remarks. He is wrong when he walks out on the team, as he apparently did 4 times this year by reports I have heard. He's wrong when he throws furniture from his window with zero regard for anyone that may be injured or killed below.

All his bizarre behavior off the field and his divisive behavior within the team framework has created a debris field IMO. I hold AB responsible for his actions that are hurting the team, and the people that had the power to check him a long time ago but chose to kick the can down the road as his ego got bigger and we now find out his traveling shitshow and social media extravaganza was only the tip of the iceberg.

I've never been a professional athlete, but I've been in more than a few locker rooms. One guy treating people like shit, breaking all the rules and allowed to get a way with it, and quitting on the team doesn't go over very well in large groups of aggressive men with ego's of their own when they feel that player has gotten out of hand or has been allowed to have his toxic behavior permeate the entire room where it affects everyone negatively. It isn't a good feeling to be in that room. Nobody is happy about that particular player, or the coaches that have allowed it all to unfold without handling it before it blew up in everyone's faces.

It divides people that are supposed to all be pulling in the same direction. NFL players can overlook a lot, and they do. That's what makes this so bad. When so many are saying that it's mostly one guy, you know that so much has already happened and some of it has been so bad that we may never even hear about.

[Mojouw]

I wasn't responding to you Mojouw. I was just making a general statement based on what I am reading from a lot of people here. I started typing it before you posted yours.

Ben was wrong when he put himself in bad situations off the field. He is wrong when he says too much in the media and publicly criticizes players. That's on him.

AB was wrong when he went live on social media with Mike Tomlin's private speech to a closed locker room. He is wrong when he throws a fit on the field and shows his quarterback up all the time. He is wrong when he goes to the sideline and freaks out screaming, cursing, and losing his mind on coaches and quarterbacks,. He is wrong when he trolls ownership, his head coach, and anyone else he tries to show up on social media with pictures and sarcastic remarks. He is wrong when he walks out on the team, as he apparently did 4 times this year by reports I have heard. He's wrong when he throws furniture from his window with zero regard for anyone that may be injured or killed below.

All his bizarre behavior off the field and his divisive behavior within the team framework has created a debris field IMO. I hold AB responsible for his actions that are hurting the team, and the people that had the power to check him a long time ago but chose to kick the can down the road as his ego got bigger and we now find out his traveling shitshow and social media extravaganza was only the tip of the iceberg.

I've never been a professional athlete, but I've been in more than a few locker rooms. One guy treating people like shit, breaking all the rules and allowed to get a way with it, and quitting on the team doesn't go over very well in large groups of aggressive men with ego's of their own when they feel that player has gotten out of hand or has been allowed to have his toxic behavior permeate the entire room where it affects everyone negatively. It isn't a good feeling to be in that room. Nobody is happy about that particular player, or the coaches that have allowed it all to unfold without handling it before it blew up in everyone's faces.

It divides people that are supposed to all be pulling in the same direction. NFL players can overlook a lot, and they do. That's what makes this so bad. When so many are saying that it's mostly one guy, you know that so much has already happened and some of it has been so bad that we may never even hear about.

No worries! Just wanted to chime in and I believe I am in basic agreement with you. I can not disagree with anything you have posted about AB.

Should be a kinda wild 2-4 months as the team tries to figure out how to get everyone moving in the same direction.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Addressing the bigger problem of getting Ben to tone down his gunslinger persona is another matter. In the Chiefs game yesterday Collinsworth said Mahomes recognized he needed to dial back taking chances after his 3 INT game against the Rams (in which Mahomes threw 6 TD passes). The Ben response to questions about dumb INTs is that he is a gunslinger. That is going to be tough to change at this stage of Ben’s career.

I agree. It really reminds me of the twilight of Favre's career. Rather than play like the wise and experienced veteran, he played like the old gunslinger that still thought he was the young gunslinger....and shot himself in the foot with bad decisions and costly INT's. Ben really has maybe 2 years left in the career, so I don't expect him to change, but am really just looking forward to the next version of the Steelers.

Lets face it. Ben Roethilisberger's window to win another Lombardi has already closed.

[stillers4me]

It's too bad Ben's last name isn't Manning and his daddy was named Archie. All would be forgiven....and forgotten. #saintpeyton

The mysterious 1994 incident between Peyton Manning and a Tennessee trainer


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/02/19/the-mysterious-1994-incident-between-peyton-manning-and-a-tennessee-trainer/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.02c485aca361

https://www.inquisitr.com/1486872/peyton-manning-sex-scandal-largely-forgotten-even-with-a-witness/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/02/19/the-mysterious-1994-incident-between-peyton-manning-and-a-tennessee-trainer/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.02c485aca361)

[Born2Steel]

I agree. It really reminds me of the twilight of Favre's career. Rather than play like the wise and experienced veteran, he played like the old gunslinger that still thought he was the young gunslinger....and shot himself in the foot with bad decisions and costly INT's. Ben really has maybe 2 years left in the career, so I don't expect him to change, but am really just looking forward to the next version of the Steelers.

Lets face it. Ben Roethilisberger's window to win another Lombardi has already closed.

I have to disagree with that last part. I don't believe any windows have closed for Big Ben. While I do agree he still has too much of a 'gun slinger' approach, it certainly served him well a few times this year as well. And cost him a few times, I get it. Point is that as long as he CAN, he will. And he still CAN.

As bitter-sweet as it is, I too am looking forward to seeing the next version.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I have to disagree with that last part. I don't believe any windows have closed for Big Ben. While I do agree he still has too much of a 'gun slinger' approach, it certainly served him well a few times this year as well. And cost him a few times, I get it. Point is that as long as he CAN, he will. And he still CAN.

As bitter-sweet as it is, I too am looking forward to seeing the next version.

Yeah, that is fine and I appreciate your optimism.

I look at the only times that Ben went to the Super Bowl were when the Steelers had a top performing defense and a locker room with the type of leadership that gets teams to championships. The Steelers have neither of those and likely will not before Ben finishes his career with the Steelers, so I really don't expect the Steelers to be able to make it to an AFCCG, let alone a Super Bowl any time soon.

[Edman]

Lets face it. Ben Roethilisberger's window to win another Lombardi has already closed.

2016 and 2017 were the last shots for this current group of Steelers to win the 7th. They couldn't do it. Bell and Brown have likely played their last games for the Steelers.

From here on, we'll get more seasons like 2018. A team good enough to contend and be in the mix, but not good enough to get anywhere near the top. The days of the Steelers being an AFC Power ended when they walked off the field on January 14, 2018.

[86WARD]

With the current group of coaches and minus AB...no matter what they draft, this team won’t compete for a championship...not even for a playoff spot.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

2016 and 2017 were the last shots for this current group of Steelers to win the 7th. They couldn't do it. Bell and Brown have likely played their last games for the Steelers.

From here on, we'll get more seasons like 2018. A team good enough to contend and be in the mix, but not good enough to get anywhere near the top. The days of the Steelers being an AFC Power ended when they walked off the field on January 14, 2018.

OK, so a lot of fair weather fans that are used to seeing AFC North and AFC Central titles will leave the bandwagon. I'm fine with that. More room for me to stretch my legs out and enjoy the games. :alcohol:

[Shoes]

With the current group of coaches and minus AB...no matter what they draft, this team won’t compete for a championship...not even for a playoff spot.

Kind of where we are now. :lol:

[86WARD]

Kind of where we are now. :lol:

Lol

[NCSteeler]

That's an ignorant leap. Yeah we get it. Ben had some early career off the field issues. And granted he sticks his foot in his mouth a few times every season with his comments. But to call him a crappy human being! I call bullshit! Did he not give you an autograph when you interrupted his dinner? Or not tip your bartender friend what he thought he was due? ( I can make leaps too)

Bottom line from what I gather since he's completed his league mandated suspension his off the field behavior has been completely above board. He's seems to be a dedicated family man. True to his best friends. And a good father, son and husband. He's also fiercely loyal to the Steelers and the Rooneys. Has anyone ever seen any indication that he has any desire to not retire a Steeler?

Yes he's got some diva- drama queen in him. But to call him a crappy human is bullshit! I lost a lot of respect for you for that comment.Wow Zu goes old school Jeremy? references

I agree Ben was very immature and couldn't handle his early success. I think he was a pretty lousy person. But he seems like a good family man now and his off field life is pretty straight.

His leadership kinda sucks though

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[zulater]

They do when there is literally tens of millions of dollars at stake.

Ben has a lot more to lose than the average sex offender.

Tell it to Harvey Weinstein. :coffee:

[lipps83]

Tell it to Harvey Weinstein. :coffee:

Big difference when you have almost an entire industry backing you for 30 years and a lot of hush money being paid out to the victims and to the police covering up your sleeziness. Ben had no one backing him and it was out in the open for all to see. No one was trying to cover it up.

You almost had me though. I had to spend 30 seconds thinking of a reply instead of just typing.

[zulater]

Big difference when you have almost an entire industry backing you for 30 years and a lot of hush money being paid out to the victims and to the police covering up your sleeziness. Ben had no one backing him and it was out in the open for all to see. No one was trying to cover it up.

You almost had me though. I had to spend 30 seconds thinking of a reply instead of just typing.

A true sexual predator will always be true to their core no matter what they have to lose. It's their nature and outside of being absolutely removed from any temptation, (such as a child predator in prison ) they will seek and find a way to do what comes natural to them. If you don't think for a minute that Ben couldn't score woman on road trips and during the offseason then you're an absolute idiot. The fact he hasn't had the remotest rumor of infidelity or improper conduct such as boorish behavior towards woman in a bar since being cleared by the GBI should tell you that whatever happened back then wasn't sexual assault.

[lipps83]

A true sexual predator will always be true to their core no matter what they have to lose. It's their nature and outside of being absolutely removed from any temptation, (such as a child predator in prison ) they will seek and find a way to do what comes natural to them. If you don't think for a minute that Ben couldn't score woman on road trips and during the offseason then you're an absolute idiot. The fact he hasn't had the remotest rumor of infidelity or improper conduct such as boorish behavior towards woman in a bar since being cleared by the GBI should tell you that whatever happened back then wasn't sexual assault.

I never said he was a true sexual predator. In fact, I didn't say anything as to what I thought Ben was or is. I said that he had a lot to lose compared to the average sex offender, due to what would ultimately be at stake.

There is a huge degree of difference between a sex offender and a rapist. A person flashing genitalia in public can be classified as a sex offender. That is not a rapist. A sex offender (generalized) is an asshole. A rapist is a dysfunctional person with a disgusting problem.

Ben is an asshole. It is sometimes easy to pretend to not be an asshole for money. I do it at work all the time :)

[fansince'76]

Wow Zu goes old school Jeremy?

"Fuck off, kid, you don't have tits!" :lol:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Ben is an asshole. It is sometimes easy to pretend to not be an asshole for money. I do it at work all the time :)

This is the thing that true homers cannot separate in their mind. Its not unusual for sports legends to be jerks and still be great athletes. Its OK, it just happens in some cases.

-Joe Montana let his wife know he was leaving her, thru a note he left at the 49ers front office secretary for her to pick up. Kind of a a hole move.
-Ken Stabler had drugs planted in a reporters car and then informed the police the guy was in possession of cocaine. Framing a media member is a real douche move IMO.
-Lance Armstrong was winning bike races, selling yellow bracelets and getting rich, while intimidating and destroying the lives of those that confronted his drug use. He was a true asshole while most of America loved him and trusted him.
-Tyreek Hill choked the mother of his child to the point of unconsciousness while in college....but fans think the guy is amazing.

So its not absurd to think that over all the years that Ben is somewhat of a jerk and not the greatest with being a leader, but has 2 super bowl rings. I think he has fallen back into being his alter ego of Big Ben, like he referenced some 8-10 years ago. But I really don't care. I have always been a Steeler fan, more than a fan of any one player.

[hawaiiansteeler]

You mean the entitled jerk is till an entitled jerk - he just got better at faking it? Weird, who would’ve thunk it?

Ben R is a HOF QB but a pretty crappy human and a terrible off-field leader. Has been since day one.

I believe Ben may have made some not so smart choices when he was younger but then I think most of us are guilty of that. I give Ben a lot of credit for maturing into a much better individual, getting married and having children may have had a lot to do with that.