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Shoes
01-05-2019, 11:14 AM
https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/GettyImages-1043869530-e1546704597734.jpg?w=560&h=316&crop=1
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A former NFL player turned NFL Network analyst has provided a different side of the ongoing saga of Antonio Brown (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5698/antonio-brown)‘s relationship with the Steelers and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1181/ben-roethlisberger).

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/05/report-ben-criticized-brown-in-meetings-wanted-him-off-the-practice-field/

Edman
01-05-2019, 11:19 AM
They’re both cancerous tumors at this point and need to ride off somewhere else.

Unfortunately, one is a quarterback, and the other isn’t.

Shoes
01-05-2019, 11:21 AM
They’re both cancerous tumors at this point and need to ride off somewhere else.

Unfortunately, one is a quarterback, and the other isn’t.


Agreed, Ben is just a more polished, crafty turd. :chuckle:

Born2Steel
01-05-2019, 11:23 AM
Laughable. This is what a football locker room looks and sounds like ladies and gentlemen. Guys argue and sometimes even fight.

zulater
01-05-2019, 11:24 AM
Yeah and Ben made AB drive 100 mph down McKnight road and fling furniture off an 18th story balcony in the offseason. Quick prediction where ever AB goes next year that team will regret the day they got him. He will brow beat his future qb to the detriment of the other receivers targets. His new qb will force feed multiple interceptions into double and triple covered AB. The only possible exception would be if he went to Green Bay. He would actually be a good fit there and Aaron Rodgers would tune out his shit. But give it time and AB would be whining about the weather up there or the lack of diversity in the community. He's just somebody who can't be happy unless everything is perfectly his way.

Shoes
01-05-2019, 11:24 AM
Laughable. This is what a football locker room looks and sounds like ladies and gentlemen. Guys argue and sometimes even fight.

yes but they show up and play at a game they must win. That isn’t laughable

Born2Steel
01-05-2019, 11:26 AM
yes but they show up and play at a game they must win. That isn’t laughable

No. They do not always do that either. Is that a good thing? Absolutely not. But it also does not mean anything more than what it was. But speculators are going to speculate.

stillers4me
01-05-2019, 11:32 AM
Because all other locker rooms are all unicorns and rainbows.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2Fsscy8.jpg&f=1

pczach
01-05-2019, 12:19 PM
Laughable. This is what a football locker room looks and sounds like ladies and gentlemen. Guys argue and sometimes even fight.


Yep. Not enough fans have had personal experience with locker rooms and egos and arguments that happen. This is commonplace in any locker room. They fight and argue like brothers, but they are ultimately a family. In the end, they are supposed to reunite for a common cause which is winning football games.

AtlantaDan
01-05-2019, 12:25 PM
They fight and argue like brothers, but they are ultimately a family.

Of course some families are the Waltons while other families are Michael and Fredo Corleone

pczach
01-05-2019, 12:39 PM
Of course some families are the Waltons while other families are Michael and Fredo Corleone




So Fredo needs to die?

Which one is Fredo?

:flap:

DesertSteel
01-05-2019, 12:48 PM
James Jones is almost as good as Ike Taylor as an analyst!

zulater
01-05-2019, 01:03 PM
So Fredo needs to die?

Which one is Fredo?

:flap:

Not sure. But I heard a rumor that Pouncey was getting the boat ready to take AB out fishing on the pond!

Michael
01-05-2019, 01:56 PM
I am not a hugh fan of Ben's personality as I think I know it. That opinion is totally irrelevant. What I do believe is the he is an Extreme old fashion competitor and I give him high marks for being so. I think Ben was probably correct in saying "get hin out of here" if he in fact did it. Brown is a starved for attention primadonna & very immature. I think it is killing him that JU Ju is getting all the due attention. AB is so little self control and no one is telling him to get his ass in line. Tomlin's style does not work with confrontation as he thinks he can bullshit himself through every challenge. Some body has to step up to Brown and Ben is that logical choice. AB has great trade value and we have serious defense needs. Be smart optimize the opportunity. -Improve the defense & more importantly make it clear "if you want to play for the Steelers you need to be a good citizen. Tomlin IMO is the problem. When Tom Brady runs his ass off to get to a meeting for fear of the coach's reprisal and Brown shows up missing fors games & meetings it does not take a real discerning guy to figure out what is different in the two cultures. Lets quit placing blame other than where it obviously is. Ben is not the problem. We may find out in due time when We are riding a painted pony through the desert with no name " Been there and its not fun.

zulater
01-05-2019, 03:12 PM
This is what I wish would happen. Get Tomlin, AB, Ben, and AJR III in a meeting room together. Meet like men, talk like men and air out your grievances and speak what you seek. Try to find common ground and move on whatever way you need to, together or separate. If it's determined that AB wants to stay and can live within the framework of what's expected and required then do that. Of course he would need to address his teammates in some way to explain or apologize for missing the Bengals game. Nothing would need to come from AB for the public or press. Leave it to Tomlin or AJR III to address them.

Think there's about a 3% chance this will happen! lol

AtlantaDan
01-05-2019, 03:30 PM
So Fredo needs to die?

Which one is Fredo?

:flap:

Ben to AB after last week’s misadventures


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5olZKBchm4

AB to Ben


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9E9n6GHC8

:grin:

Method28
01-05-2019, 04:14 PM
Someone is flat out lying and making stuff up. I thought it was reported that Ben didn't practice Wed and AB missed the rest of the week. [emoji848]

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FrancoLambert
01-05-2019, 06:13 PM
So Fredo needs to die?

Which one is Fredo?

:flap:

Fredo better be Butler.

zulater
01-05-2019, 06:25 PM
Someone is flat out lying and making stuff up. I thought it was reported that Ben didn't practice Wed and AB missed the rest of the week. [emoji848]

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Hmmm? Ben usually takes off Wednesday practice ( along with Pouncey) as a maintenance day. Not sure why this one would be different?

86WARD
01-05-2019, 06:43 PM
They also reported that AB was pissed and felt disrespected about teams MVP vote on that Wednesday. The MVP vote didn’t take place until Thursday morning and was announced Thursday afternoon.

Edman
01-05-2019, 07:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Zgtm-g4Co

zulater
01-05-2019, 09:09 PM
Outside of Andrew Luck ( 2.3 int %, Ben is 2.4) I'm seeing some pretty marginal qb'ing today by the other 3 name qb's. To hell with the stats I'll take Ben over anyone but Luck any day of the week. I think we take for granted how many sacks Ben avoids.

Steelerchad
01-06-2019, 07:35 AM
Not sure what other teams are going to be willing to lay out for AB at this point. He will be 31 before next season starts. Very few receivers even play after 35 and even less are productive.
Late 20's is their prime and AB is past it. The end comes quickly in the NFL and a large production drop could be any day now.
I don't believe a team will offer a first because at best they are getting a productive guy for 3 seasons and paying top dollar for it.
We are going to be stuck with guy so Tomlin better figure out a way to make it work. The pieces are still there for this offense, he needs to put them together. That's in his job description.

86WARD
01-06-2019, 08:03 AM
I’ll be happy to be “stuck” with a guy with ABs talents.

Pretty much all athletes are assholes in one way or another. They’re all entitled pricks. Very few NFL athletes are down to earth common people. VERY FEW. Millions and millions of dollars can do that to a person. You want that common man thing, go look to the NHL...that’s the closest you’ll get and even that’s pushing it.

AB is on that higher end, over the top, portion of that prick spectrum. He wasn’t always there but new contracts and money do that to a guy. A guy like the current JuJu is on the lower end of that spectrum...but as time goes on, JuJu will move up that spectrum...how high? We don’t know...odds are not very, but you never know.

fansince'76
01-06-2019, 09:23 AM
I think we take for granted how many sacks Ben avoids.

:iagree:

Not to mention a good chunk of AB's numbers come from Ben keeping plays alive and AB breaking off his route to double back and help bail Ben out. Pretty much anyone else besides maybe Rodgers gives up on the play and throws the ball away well before that point.

Does that playing style lead to a fair amount of INTs? Yeah. But it also leads to making a bunch of plays no other QB makes as well.

stillers4me
01-06-2019, 09:52 AM
So AB is an asshole in practice one to many times and Ben has enough of it and then it's all Ben's fault? Not saying it happened that way but I can see it.

Bluecoat96
01-06-2019, 10:19 AM
I’ll be happy to be “stuck” with a guy with ABs talents.

Pretty much all athletes are assholes in one way or another. They’re all entitled pricks. Very few NFL athletes are down to earth common people. VERY FEW. Millions and millions of dollars can do that to a person. You want that common man thing, go look to the NHL...that’s the closest you’ll get and even that’s pushing it.

AB is on that higher end, over the top, portion of that prick spectrum. He wasn’t always there but new contracts and money do that to a guy. A guy like the current JuJu is on the lower end of that spectrum...but as time goes on, JuJu will move up that spectrum...how high? We don’t know...odds are not very, but you never know.

I have a feeling that juju won't rise too terribly far on the spectrum. Juju has one big difference in his life that I don't think AB had. He seems to have had a pretty solid and stable upbringing, while AB didn't. Might not mean a thing, bit I have to think that it does. I think of the video of juju's mom telling him he ain't shit when he comes home and that he needs to go sweep the leaves up outside. [emoji23]

https://youtu.be/KcNatfdnG_w

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steelcityboyz
01-06-2019, 11:18 AM
This is what I wish would happen. Get Tomlin, AB, Ben, and AJR III in a meeting room together. Meet like men, talk like men and air out your grievances and speak what you seek. Try to find common ground and move on whatever way you need to, together or separate. If it's determined that AB wants to stay and can live within the framework of what's expected and required then do that. Of course he would need to address his teammates in some way to explain or apologize for missing the Bengals game. Nothing would need to come from AB for the public or press. Leave it to Tomlin or AJR III to address them.

Think there's about a 3% chance this will happen! lolGood post! I'm with you on this. These guys aren't 15-16 yr old high school players they're supposed to be grown men, professionals, business men, as they want to call themselfs. So how hard is it to sit down with the man who is paying you, and a QB that is helping you become a multi millionaire to play a game and hash things out. I didn't mention Tomlin, because I think he's worthless. To me Tomlin shouldn't have let this shit show get this far. JMO. As far as Ben criticizing AB I don't believe that for one minute

StillCurtains
01-06-2019, 12:21 PM
AB has a serious character issue on and off of the field and that is not to be ignored. However he works harder than ANYONE on this football team and produces at a very consistent clip. His play and production is being compared to Jerry Rice. That says alot about him as a receiver.

Ben is a HOF QB and is supposed to be the leader of the team. He has Wednesdays off. I haven’t heard of guys like Brady having practices off unless due to injury and that says something. Ben likes to tout that he is the leader, but he doesn’t set a very high standard for his team to follow. This is where I have a problem.

Firstly, AB is an A-class working machine veteran WR. Being that he is a veteran WR he should not be called out in front of his teammates for running the wrong route, then barking to get him off of the field. AB has his warts, but he should at least be given that much respect. He’s not a rookie out there. He doesn’t have to poke the bear.

If Ben’s standard is perfection then great! I would not have a problem with this so much if Ben actually SET this standard himself. How about not missing Wednesdays practice? How about not throwing 4 picks and 1 fumble vs Cleveland? How about not throwing 3 picks vs Jacksonville? How about not throwing 2 picks (one in the endzone) vs Denver? How about not throwing a redzone pick vs the Chargers? How about not throwing a pick 6 vs the Bengals?

You can’t demand perfection from your players, but exonerate your own bad play. The message that says to your teammates is that you can make as many mistakes as you want, but they can’t make any. That divides a locker room. You BETER be a STELLAR example of that standard you are trying to set on the field.

That is the ONLY way that approach will work. Tomlin can very well say for Ben to get the hell off of the field for throwing all of his picks, the same way that Ben said it about AB for running the wrong route. So really for me, if Ben wants to use that approach, then he sure needs to start backing it up.

That’s the problem I have with it, and I’m sure at least partially, AB has a problem with that too.

zulater
01-06-2019, 12:39 PM
AB has a serious character issue on and off of the field and that is not to be ignored. However he works harder than ANYONE on this football team and produces at a very consistent clip. His play and production is being compared to Jerry Rice. That says alot about him as a receiver.

Ben is a HOF QB and is supposed to be the leader of the team. He has Wednesdays off. I haven’t heard of guys like Brady having practices off unless due to injury and that says something. Ben likes to tout that he is the leader, but he doesn’t set a very high standard for his team to follow. This is where I have a problem.

Firstly, AB is an A-class working machine veteran WR. Being that he is a veteran WR he should not be called out in front of his teammates for running the wrong route, then barking to get him off of the field. AB has his warts, but he should at least be given that much respect. He’s not a rookie out there. He doesn’t have to poke the bear.

If Ben’s standard is perfection then great! I would not have a problem with this so much if Ben actually SET this standard himself. How about not missing Wednesdays practice? How about not throwing 4 picks and 1 fumble vs Cleveland? How about not throwing 3 picks vs Jacksonville? How about not throwing 2 picks (one in the endzone) vs Denver? How about not throwing a redzone pick vs the Chargers? How about not throwing a pick 6 vs the Bengals?

You can’t demand perfection from your players, but exonerate your own bad play. The message that says to your teammates is that you can make as many mistakes as you want, but they can’t make any. That divides a locker room. You BETER be a STELLAR example of that standard you are trying to set on the field.

That is the ONLY way that approach will work. Tomlin can very well say for Ben to get the hell off of the field for throwing all of his picks, the same way that Ben said it about AB for running the wrong route. So really for me, if Ben wants to use that approach, then he sure needs to start backing it up.

That’s the problem I have with it, and I’m sure at least partially, AB has a problem with that too.

Our former backup qb Bruce Grakowski was on NFL radio last week and said AB was chronically late to practices and meetings going back to his time and would get his feathers ruffled if any coach or teammate dare suggest he did something wrong in practice. Absolutely said he was a hard worker once on the field. But gave the indication he has been a me first diva for quite awhile. But what would he know?

I'm sure Ben's the problem. Trade Ben make AB player coach. And have Dobbs pass to AB every single play! Yeah that should do it! Hell. Maybe we could even rename the team the AB's! :hail:

86WARD
01-06-2019, 01:21 PM
Our former backup qb Bruce Grakowski was on NFL radio last week and said AB was chronically late to practices and meetings going back to his time and would get his feathers ruffled if any coach or teammate dare suggest he did something wrong in practice. Absolutely said he was a hard worker once on the field. But gave the indication he has been a me first diva for quite awhile. But what would he know?

I'm sure Ben's the problem. Trade Ben make AB player coach. And have Dobbs pass to AB every single play! Yeah that should do it! Hell. Maybe we could even rename the team the AB's! :hail:

So then really it’s just business as usual and this is all a non-story...

zulater
01-06-2019, 01:33 PM
So then really it’s just business as usual and this is all a non-story...

I don't think it's beyond fixing unless AB says it is. And even then the Steelers hold the most cards and can force his ass one way or the other to be here or lose wages 1 week at a time. I don't knuckle under to his tantrum. I give him a chance to calm down, hear him out, then politely tell him what's needed from him. Hell I even tell him he plays good soldier I grant him a trade next offseason when it's more cap doable for us.

86WARD
01-06-2019, 01:37 PM
I don't think it's beyond fixing unless AB says it is. And even then the Steelers hold the most cards and can force his ass one way or the other to be here or lose wages 1 week at a time. I don't knuckle under to his tantrum. I give him a chance to calm down, hear him out, then politely tell him what's needed from him. Hell I even tell him he plays good soldier I grant him a trade next offseason when it's more cap doable for us.

That’s usually what this team does...which is the rationale thing to do.

AtlantaDan
01-06-2019, 01:42 PM
Good points by Ryan Clark on ESPN today

Ben is not a natural leader (early on in Clark’s time with the Steelers there was a meeting to address it) so Ben trying to be the leader can cause some issues

But that does not excuse what AB did - Tomlin (aka “Mike T”) should have stopped it no later than the Facebook streaming after the KC playoff win

Other Steelers players who just want to win will be collateral damage if this cannot be fixed - AB will move on and get his stats to make HOF while Steelers lose a very productive player

Comedy gold with Randy Moss saying a WR who acts out should not be tolerated

1081969976813252610

StillCurtains
01-06-2019, 01:50 PM
Our former backup qb Bruce Grakowski was on NFL radio last week and said AB was chronically late to practices and meetings going back to his time and would get his feathers ruffled if any coach or teammate dare suggest he did something wrong in practice. Absolutely said he was a hard worker once on the field. But gave the indication he has been a me first diva for quite awhile. But what would he know?

I'm sure Ben's the problem. Trade Ben make AB player coach. And have Dobbs pass to AB every single play! Yeah that should do it! Hell. Maybe we could even rename the team the AB's! :hail:

I DON’T WANT TO GET RID OF BEN!!!! The fact is he isn’t without fault and you fail to acknowledge that. You have him immune to everything because of his HOF credentials. This is about TODAY and not the overall course of his career. TODAY, Ben hasn’t been good enough to get them in the post season. PERIOD!!!

NCSteeler
01-06-2019, 02:10 PM
Our former backup qb Bruce Grakowski was on NFL radio last week and said AB was chronically late to practices and meetings going back to his time and would get his feathers ruffled if any coach or teammate dare suggest he did something wrong in practice. Absolutely said he was a hard worker once on the field. But gave the indication he has been a me first diva for quite awhile. But what would he know?

I'm sure Ben's the problem. Trade Ben make AB player coach. And have Dobbs pass to AB every single play! Yeah that should do it! Hell. Maybe we could even rename the team the AB's! :hail:And Tomlin should have set AB in his place the first or at most second time he was late for anything. You can not runs team and let people come and go as they wish

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86WARD
01-06-2019, 02:11 PM
And Tomlin should have set AB in his place the first or at most second time he was late for anything. You can not runs team and let people come and go as they wish

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So we are beginning to hear a lot about players showing up late for meetings here over the past few years...

Butch
01-06-2019, 02:47 PM
So what! Ben called AB out and rather than bark back he QUITS on his team, rather than man up has his agent call the team to let them know AB wants to play. Be a man stand up and bark back don't be a Bitch and go home and pout, and then have mommy call your coach and say you want to play. But yeah it's all Ben's fault for trying to deal with a Diva. Give me a break.

I don't want AB off the team it took us time to develop him, but I don't see any way we can keep him at this point. If we do trade him we better get a damn good WR to replace him.

NCSteeler
01-06-2019, 02:56 PM
So we are beginning to hear a lot about players showing up late for meetings here over the past few years...A culture

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silver & black
01-06-2019, 03:01 PM
I'll trade you guys Derek Carr even up for Ben. Any takers?

86WARD
01-06-2019, 03:04 PM
A culture

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Yep...a culture created by the head coach.

pczach
01-06-2019, 03:12 PM
I'll trade you guys Derek Carr even up for Ben. Any takers?



We have some people here that may actually do that. Real football genius at work. :sarcasm2:

Shoes
01-06-2019, 03:39 PM
AB not responding to Ben's tweet is one thing and no big deal, AB not responding directly to Tomlin but rather via his agent was a direct slap in Tomlins face, AB not responding to AJRII, the guy who signs your check is adding insult to injury and demonstrates the ultimate disrespect. You want to talk about culture there it is behind those shiny white teeth. Brown needs a foot in his A$$ as he's going out the door.

stillers4me
01-06-2019, 03:42 PM
Just for the record, Ben does not tweet. His account is run by Erin Cox. Family pictures and messages to fans are sent to her by email with his permission to post.

Ben probably texted him and he ignored it.

hawaiiansteeler
01-06-2019, 03:52 PM
I'll trade you guys Derek Carr even up for Ben. Any takers?

only if you also include Martavis Bryant, we have a diva WR we need to replace with another one...

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 04:13 PM
A culture

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So we are beginning to hear a lot about players showing up late for meetings here over the past few years...


Yep...a culture created by the head coach.

That MAY be true. However, it is an assumption that rampant meeting skipping is being overlooked. We know that 3 guys have skipped meetings in the past handful of years. So what does that mean? Well let’s think it through for a second.

53 man roster + 10 man PS + a smattering of injured dudes means about 60-70 guys have to adhere to a meeting schedule each week. We know that Bell, Brown, and Harrison failed to do that. Why? Because they are attempting to express disdain/displeasure with something. If it was actually an environment where being late or missing a meeting was no big deal, it wouldn’t be an effective tool for signaling that you are unhappy.

Plus the only meeting we know that Bell missed or was late to it was also reported he was excused and it wasn’t a big deal. Harrison missed meetings in an attempt to get thrown off the roster. AB did it to piss off his QB and coach.

Honestly, there is a chain of logic to draw the opposite conclusion. Guys are missing meetings because they know it is a big deal in order to get tossed off the team.

Which is true? No idea. But to pretend that we know where things fall between either extreme is a bit premature.

NCSteeler
01-06-2019, 04:52 PM
I'll trade you guys Derek Carr even up for Ben. Any takers?Can you throw in your 3 first round picks ? Lol nah

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NCSteeler
01-06-2019, 04:54 PM
That MAY be true. However, it is an assumption that rampant meeting skipping is being overlooked. We know that 3 guys have skipped meetings in the past handful of years. So what does that mean? Well let’s think it through for a second.

53 man roster + 10 man PS + a smattering of injured dudes means about 60-70 guys have to adhere to a meeting schedule each week. We know that Bell, Brown, and Harrison failed to do that. Why? Because they are attempting to express disdain/displeasure with something. If it was actually an environment where being late or missing a meeting was no big deal, it wouldn’t be an effective tool for signaling that you are unhappy.

Plus the only meeting we know that Bell missed or was late to it was also reported he was excused and it wasn’t a big deal. Harrison missed meetings in an attempt to get thrown off the roster. AB did it to piss off his QB and coach.

Honestly, there is a chain of logic to draw the opposite conclusion. Guys are missing meetings because they know it is a big deal in order to get tossed off the team.

Which is true? No idea. But to pretend that we know where things fall between either extreme is a bit premature.Smoking dope on your way to a team trip . I agree we don't all the insurance and outs but There is plenty of evidence that some playerss do as they please from time to time

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GBMelBlount
01-06-2019, 04:55 PM
Our former backup qb Bruce Grakowski was on NFL radio last week and said AB was chronically late to practices and meetings going back to his time and would get his feathers ruffled if any coach or teammate dare suggest he did something wrong in practice. Absolutely said he was a hard worker once on the field. But gave the indication he has been a me first diva for quite awhile. But what would he know?

I'm sure Ben's the problem. Trade Ben make AB player coach. And have Dobbs pass to AB every single play! Yeah that should do it! Hell. Maybe we could even rename the team the AB's! :hail:

:applaudit:

Let the dust settle.

See what offers come in.

Worst case keep Antonio as per the agreement.

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 04:57 PM
Smoking dope on your way to a team trip . There is a lot of evidence

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Drug use was not the question. If you wanna move the goalposts at every instance to cut off any discussion that runs counter to your opinion, go right ahead.

Bryant, Bell, and HArrison have proven to be problematic team members wherever they have gone.

AB remains to be seen.

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 04:58 PM
And Blount as well.


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NCSteeler
01-06-2019, 05:05 PM
Drug use was not the question. If you wanna move the goalposts at every instance to cut off any discussion that runs counter to your opinion, go right ahead.

Bryant, Bell, and HArrison have proven to be problematic team members wherever they have gone.

AB remains to be seen.For me it's the timing of the use. Lots if players smoke dope , I'm hoping it's a rarity that it gets done in such a situation.

I'm not moving goalposts it's more evidence that things are a little lose in Pittsburgh.

Again I don't want Tomlin fired at least not this year, BUT he has to get some ducks in a row.

Trading brown might help in that instance. Ben is also part of the problem, he needs to keep his critiques in the meeting rooms and off the radio .

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Mojouw
01-06-2019, 05:12 PM
For me it's the timing of the use. Lots if players smoke dope , I'm hoping it's a rarity that it gets done in such a situation.

I'm not moving goalposts it's more evidence that things are a little lose in Pittsburgh.

Again I don't want Tomlin fired at least not this year, BUT he has to get some ducks in a row.

Trading brown might help in that instance. Ben is also part of the problem, he needs to keep his critiques in the meeting rooms and off the radio .

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I bet a quarter of the league gets on the charter high.

It also needs remembered that out of 65-70 man team each year, there have been 5 guys that have driven almost every instance of “drama” over the last 5 years - Blount, Bell, Bryant, Harrison, and AB.

Is that really evidence of a pirate ship of misfits careening out of control without any supervision or leadership or just one or two jerks per year?

Each of those jerks was tolerated until their jerkiness outweighed their on-field performance. Steelers would be far from the first or last team to attempt to walk that high-wire with players.

I dunno. Maybe because I work with twenty year olds on a regular basis, but I am surprised that more idiocy isn’t taking place.

DesertSteel
01-06-2019, 05:43 PM
Most guys know they'd be cut if they pulled the drama of AB, Bell and the likes. That's why it's so few.

AtlantaDan
01-06-2019, 06:06 PM
Most guys know they'd be cut if they pulled the drama of AB, Bell and the likes. That's why it's so few.

If you are a great player you get away with more

Many Steelers fans recall Joe Greene committing multiple personal fouls and throwing a football into the stands in an Eagles game his rookie season

In 1973, when the Steelers were by then a playoff team and Greene the clear team leader, he pulled this stunt

In '73 Greene was so disgusted with the Steelers' lack of spark against Houston that he took himself out of the game, an action many of his teammates resented.

https://www.si.com/vault/1975/02/17/557877/youre-a-part-of-all-this

I recall Chuck Noll let him stay

If that 1973 incident happened today the twitterverse and forums like this would explode. Back then people shrugged and moved on since I would guess lots of drama occurred that never got outside the locker room

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 07:03 PM
Most guys know they'd be cut if they pulled the drama of AB, Bell and the likes. That's why it's so few.

But that's the point. It's not a pervasive problem. It's due to a small # of morons creating outsized headlines.

Honestly, stay off Twitter, ESPN, and sports radio. Get NFL updates from internet sources and podcasts that focus on on field analysis and film study stuff and almost all this drama stuff evaporates like a stale fart.




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86WARD
01-06-2019, 07:16 PM
Drug use was not the question. If you wanna move the goalposts at every instance to cut off any discussion that runs counter to your opinion, go right ahead.

Bryant, Bell, and HArrison have proven to be problematic team members wherever they have gone.

AB remains to be seen.

Where else has Bell been a problem?

Let’s not forget that Artie Burns was late for team activities, Justin Gilbert was late for meetings and activities on multiple occasions.

It’s a problem that seems to happen far too often. You can do the math all you want and try to make excuses but when it’s not happening on other teams with the same amount of players and weeks and meetings and everything, it’s a problem...especially with the level of players that is late or missing. These are Pro-Bowl/high profile players in Brown, Bell, Harrison.

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 07:28 PM
Where else has Bell been a problem?

Let’s not forget that Artie Burns was late for team activities, Justin Gilbert was late for meetings and activities on multiple occasions.

It’s a problem that seems to happen far too often. You can do the math all you want and try to make excuses but when it’s not happening on other teams with the same amount of players and weeks and meetings and everything, it’s a problem...especially with the level of players that is late or missing. These are Pro-Bowl/high profile players in Brown, Bell, Harrison.

How can you know if it is any less with other teams? You've repeatedly stated that with unwavering confidence but offer nothing to back that assessment.

All I'm trying to say is that this board likes to make blanket statements (especially negative ones) with little to no evidence or support for them beyond anger and frustration.

Personally, I like to base my opinions on facts and evidence not what makes me feel better.

It is entity possible that the Steelers locker room is the undisciplined pit of chaos and irresponsiblity that many are convinced it is.

However, most of the guys who get paid to follow the the paint an admittedly not entirely rosy picture but certainly a far far more positive scene than it seems the majority here want to believe in.

I see it as a choice to place the majority of the blame on some percieved intangible explaination about discipline that does not seem totally born out by the available information. Or I can lay the blame at poor defensive schemes, an atrocious turnover ratio, and a horrid kicking game. Things I can see and demonstrste.

zulater
01-06-2019, 07:43 PM
Where else has Bell been a problem?

Let’s not forget that Artie Burns was late for team activities, Justin Gilbert was late for meetings and activities on multiple occasions.

It’s a problem that seems to happen far too often. You can do the math all you want and try to make excuses but when it’s not happening on other teams with the same amount of players and weeks and meetings and everything, it’s a problem...especially with the level of players that is late or missing. These are Pro-Bowl/high profile players in Brown, Bell, Harrison.

Bell missed the Saturday walk through prior to last year's playoff game and was late to the stadium on game day.

Butch
01-06-2019, 08:11 PM
If you are a great player you get away with more

Many Steelers fans recall Joe Greene committing multiple personal fouls and throwing a football into the stands in an Eagles game his rookie season

In 1973, when the Steelers were by then a playoff team and Greene the clear team leader, he pulled this stunt

In '73 Greene was so disgusted with the Steelers' lack of spark against Houston that he took himself out of the game, an action many of his teammates resented.

https://www.si.com/vault/1975/02/17/557877/youre-a-part-of-all-this

I recall Chuck Noll let him stay

If that 1973 incident happened today the twitterverse and forums like this would explode. Back then people shrugged and moved on since I would guess lots of drama occurred that never got outside the locker room

IDK the difference to me is that Joe's actions were about the team not playing well, where as Antonio's outburst is about Antonio.

86WARD
01-06-2019, 08:27 PM
Bell missed the Saturday walk through prior to last year's playoff game and was late to the stadium on game day.

That was with the Steelers. What other team has he been a problem was the question.

86WARD
01-06-2019, 08:30 PM
How can you know if it is any less with other teams? You've repeatedly stated that with unwavering confidence but offer nothing to back that assessment.

All I'm trying to say is that this board likes to make blanket statements (especially negative ones) with little to no evidence or support for them beyond anger and frustration.

Personally, I like to base my opinions on facts and evidence not what makes me feel better.

It is entity possible that the Steelers locker room is the undisciplined pit of chaos and irresponsiblity that many are convinced it is.

However, most of the guys who get paid to follow the the paint an admittedly not entirely rosy picture but certainly a far far more positive scene than it seems the majority here want to believe in.

I see it as a choice to place the majority of the blame on some percieved intangible explaination about discipline that does not seem totally born out by the available information. Or I can lay the blame at poor defensive schemes, an atrocious turnover ratio, and a horrid kicking game. Things I can see and demonstrste.

Because I watch NFL Network pretty much everyday. Have a job where I listen to NFL Radio pretty much everyday and I read a lot of online stuff and don’t recall reading other teams or hearing of other teams players missing meetings...especially high profile players.

The culture and locker room of the Steelers is clearly a mess. Recent years and reports have proven that with many facts. It’s not anyone feeling angry it’s just facts...

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 08:40 PM
Because I watch NFL Network pretty much everyday. Have a job where I listen to NFL Radio pretty much everyday and I read a lot of online stuff and don’t recall reading other teams or hearing of other teams players missing meetings...especially high profile players.

The culture and locker room of the Steelers is clearly a mess. Recent years and reports have proven that with many facts. It’s not anyone feeling angry it’s just facts...

The news sources that rely on Twitter speculation and treat Schefter as fact?

Meanwhile Kaboly, Wexell, Dulac, Bouchette etc. who daily follow the team All indicate there is a problem but typically define it as limited in scope and confined to the actions of isolated individuals.

Hawkman
01-06-2019, 09:40 PM
The news sources that rely on Twitter speculation and treat Schefter as fact?

Meanwhile Kaboly, Wexell, Dulac, Bouchette etc. who daily follow the team All indicate there is a problem but typically define it as limited in scope and confined to the actions of isolated individuals.

The line that always cracks me up is......”sources inside the Steelers organization”. Could be anyone.

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 09:49 PM
The line that always cracks me up is......”sources inside the Steelers organization”. Could be anyone.

Right? The thing that sticks with me is Bells absence/late arrival prior to the playoff game. It came out intially from "sources" that no one knew and then multiple reports were about how everyone who mattered knew.

I figure the truth of these things is somewhat in the middle and many "inside sources" are people not high enough up to really know the full story but want to feel important. Plus anyone who leaks out a story does so with an agenda.

86WARD
01-06-2019, 09:58 PM
The news sources that rely on Twitter speculation and treat Schefter as fact?

Meanwhile Kaboly, Wexell, Dulac, Bouchette etc. who daily follow the team All indicate there is a problem but typically define it as limited in scope and confined to the actions of isolated individuals.

So just from what we have listed here: Bell, Brown, Blount, Harrison, Burns, Gilbert. Six players over a course of time have missed meetings or team activities and that is limited in scope?

Can you name six players over that same time span from any other team that have been “problems” to their respective team the way the six listed have been and not just once...they’ve done it multiple times in most cases...of course the player is responsible for his actions, but for it to happen repeatedly? That falls elsewhere...that’s something that should be handled immediately...and when it happens multiple times, it shows it’s not being handled properly.

But let’s just say there’s no,problem...it’s all about the six individual players. Then the problem falls on player evaluation. Why continue to bring in the same type of character player? Or maybe their evaluations aren’t good enough to pick up those character flaws...those character flaws that these guys get a sense that they can do whatever they want with no respect for Tomlin’s rules...and do it multiple times. There’s a problem there now...

If you don’t see a recurring issue somewhere, pass the Kool Aid.

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 10:23 PM
So just from what we have listed here: Bell, Brown, Blount, Harrison, Burns, Gilbert. Six players over a course of time have missed meetings or team activities and that is limited in scope?

Can you name six players over that same time span from any other team that have been “problems” to their respective team the way the six listed have been and not just once...they’ve done it multiple times in most cases...of course the player is responsible for his actions, but for it to happen repeatedly? That falls elsewhere...that’s something that should be handled immediately...and when it happens multiple times, it shows it’s not being handled properly.

But let’s just say there’s no,problem...it’s all about the six individual players. Then the problem falls on player evaluation. Why continue to bring in the same type of character player? Or maybe their evaluations aren’t good enough to pick up those character flaws...those character flaws that these guys get a sense that they can do whatever they want with no respect for Tomlin’s rules...and do it multiple times. There’s a problem there now...

If you don’t see a recurring issue somewhere, pass the Kool Aid.

Now that moves the conversation forward to a useful spot.

For the player evaluation sure, I think it falls into a couple of places. Gilbert was a flyer that a change of scenery would modify the behavior of a well known knucklehead. Blount was similar but different. A chance was taken on a risky player because when right and engaged Blount was a borderline dominant RB. Both players are low risk (from a cap POV) and high reward but significant rolls of the dice that you can keep them in line.

Burns and Bell were simply the dice rolls that all draft picks are. No one knows how a kid will respond to pro ball. Some flourish and some founder. That's just the nature of the beast.

Harrison is the one where I think Tomlin bungled it. He appeared to at least imply promises he wasn't ready to keep. Either that or Harrison was willful ignorant of the true situation and his own abilities.

As to around the league, it's just so hard to tell. Everson Griffin went off the reservation for the Vikings but it was complicated by a mental health issue. Perhaps like Bryant? Hard to say.

Malcom Butler was benched in the SB for some reason. Could be an AB LITE situation. Again hard to tell.

Fournette was at such odds with the Jags that they traded for Hyde because speculation indicated the Jags didn't believe his injury/rehab. Some reporting he was benched at the end of the year to avoid incentive payments and ease him off the roster.

Josh Gordon has issues on two teams this year. Similar to Bryant.

The whole Earl Thomas saga for the last two seasons. He went to the opposing teams locker room to request they trade for him.

Flacco appeared to buck his coaches by repeatedly refusing to throw to Lamar Jackson.

Kirk Cousins and Aaron Donald have stayed their own franchise tag sagas.

One or maybe two Buffalo Bills quit midseason, one midgame.

Burfict repeatedly endangers his team by doing whatever he wants during games.

Brady forced the trade of his heir apparent. Gronkowski nixed a trade.

Aaron Rodgers greased the skids for his coach getting ousted.



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86WARD
01-06-2019, 10:39 PM
Now that moves the conversation forward to a useful spot.

For the player evaluation sure, I think it falls into a couple of places. Gilbert was a flyer that a change of scenery would modify the behavior of a well known knucklehead. Blount was similar but different. A chance was taken on a risky player because when right and engaged Blount was a borderline dominant RB. Both players are low risk (from a cap POV) and high reward but significant rolls of the dice that you can keep them in line.

Burns and Bell were simply the dice rolls that all draft picks are. No one knows how a kid will respond to pro ball. Some flourish and some founder. That's just the nature of the beast.

Harrison is the one where I think Tomlin bungled it. He appeared to at least imply promises he wasn't ready to keep. Either that or Harrison was willful ignorant of the true situation and his own abilities.

As to around the league, it's just so hard to tell. Everson Griffin went off the reservation for the Vikings but it was complicated by a mental health issue. Perhaps like Bryant? Hard to say.

Malcom Butler was benched in the SB for some reason. Could be an AB LITE situation. Again hard to tell.

Fournette was at such odds with the Jags that they traded for Hyde because speculation indicated the Jags didn't believe his injury/rehab. Some reporting he was benched at the end of the year to avoid incentive payments and ease him off the roster.

Josh Gordon has issues on two teams this year. Similar to Bryant.

The whole Earl Thomas saga for the last two seasons. He went to the opposing teams locker room to request they trade for him.

Flacco appeared to buck his coaches by repeatedly refusing to throw to Lamar Jackson.

Kirk Cousins and Aaron Donald have stayed their own franchise tag sagas.

One or maybe two Buffalo Bills quit midseason, one midgame.

Burfict repeatedly endangers his team by doing whatever he wants during games.

Brady forced the trade of his heir apparent. Gronkowski nixed a trade.

Aaron Rodgers greased the skids for his coach getting ousted.



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The majority of what you listed there aren’t missing meetings or team activities. Sure they’re soaked in the world of unnecessary drama but we are talking about missing team activities and meetings. The special thing about the Steelers players is that they miss team activities and then have all that drama on top of it as a bonus. But let’s use your list and say it’s apples to apples. Nowhere there do you have a group that even comes close to that of Bell, Bryant, Blount, Brown, Gilbert, Harrison and Burns. 5 have missed meetings and 5 have had drama thrown on top. Gilbert and Burns just repeatedly miss team activities.

Let’s take Blount. No problems in New England. No problems in Philadelphia, teammates loved him. No problems in Detroit. So why the issues in Pittsburgh?? Is there an answer?

To put all the blame on the players themselves...it’s not possible to do so.

Mojouw
01-06-2019, 11:01 PM
The majority of what you listed there aren’t missing meetings or team activities. Sure they’re soaked in the world of unnecessary drama but we are talking about missing team activities and meetings. The special thing about the Steelers players is that they miss team activities and then have all that drama on top of it as a bonus. But let’s use your list and say it’s apples to apples. Nowhere there do you have a group that even comes close to that of Bell, Bryant, Blount, Brown, Gilbert, Harrison and Burns. 5 have missed meetings and 5 have had drama thrown on top. Gilbert and Burns just repeatedly miss team activities.

Let’s take Blount. No problems in New England. No problems in Philadelphia, teammates loved him. No problems in Detroit. So why the issues in Pittsburgh?? Is there an answer?

To put all the blame on the players themselves...it’s not possible to do so.

As I've always said, you may be right. But I do not believe anyone posting here aside from our gracious Raven and Raiders representatives follow other NFL teams closely enough to tally player meeting attendance. Fore that makes it difficult to evaluate all of this.

Hypothesis evaluation without proper evidence or incomplete data is highly difficult.

The more we all talk about it and the more speculative data comes in, it starts to look like it can be whatever anyone wants it to be.

I think the resolution of the AB situation will finally be a window into how the inner workings of the team are or are not functioning.