The price of narcissism? Steelers have nearly 10 weeks to get an estimate

[stillers4me]

Antonio Brown got angry over some perceived slight, bolted the premises, remained out of touch except for having his agent call, and essentially abandoned his team as it became clear it might fall short of its goals.


Well yes, and I think that was just on “Dancing With The Stars.”


Can the Steelers reason with Antonio Brown, the best pass catcher in their long and gloried history? Would they rather heart-to-heart it with Ronald Ocean, A.B.’s alter ego? Would they settle for an earnest Skype session with someone dressed as a singing hippopotamus (https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/01/02/masked-singer-antonio-brown-news-steelers/stories/201901020188)?..........

read more @ https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/gene-collier/2019/01/05/antonio-brown-trade-rumors-steelers-mike-tomlin-nfl-offseason/stories/201901060077?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_PGSportsNow

[steel striker]

What an offseason this is going to be! The Daily AB/Steelers drama show!

[teegre]

This drama is even better for the NFL (click) than the Steelers making the playoffs. This will be eight months (or, eight weeks) of people clicking onto NFL.com.

[DesertSteel]

One thing is for sure... there is less people around here that are in denial that the Steelers don't have more drama than any other team...

That said, I truly hate it. The Tomlin template seems to be failing.

[Edman]

If there is anything I have learned from the Shaq/Kobe feud and all the T.O drama and the late 00’s Cowboys, immense talent is not worth the headache to hold onto it in hopes of winning. Fractured Locker rooms don’t win anything. Bell is gone and AB is beyond getting his shit together. I think Steeler fans are realizing how much of a shit show this team truly is.

Talent means nothing, if it cannot come together. Zero postseason wins in two years despite going 22-9-1 in that span. It speaks for itself. This isn’t some kind of grand dynasty we’re breaking up here, it’s a group of cancerous divas and a underachieving team. Time to cut it loose in time for the next decade.

It just isn’t worth it. Blow it up.

[stillers4me]

If I were the Steelers, I listen to every offer, negotiate a real sweet, Pittsburgh friendly deal with the team with the shittiest QB situation. Then I would say to AB...here's the deal. We hear you and we are addressing some problems. You can stay here, mend your fences, and we move on together....or here's where you are going. Your choice.

[AtlantaDan]

If I were the Steelers, I listen to every offer, negotiate a real sweet, Pittsburgh friendly deal with the team with the shittiest QB situation. Then I would say to AB...here's the deal. We hear you and we are addressing some problems. You can stay here, mend your fences, and we move on together....or here's where you are going. Your choice.

Have I got the team for AB :chuckle:

Pittsburgh Steelers need to trade Antonio Brown, should talk with these 8 NFL teams

Washington Redskins
Few organizations love splashy deals more. In this case, it would be justifiable with Josh Doctson's failure to flourish and Jamison Crowder's contract expiring. Only the Cardinals had a less potent passing offense in the NFC in 2018, though quarterback Alex Smith's style of play and subsequent leg injury were major factors in Washington's demise — as was the season-ending injury to Paul Richardson, whose career numbers cast doubt on his reliability anyway. Brown could solve a lot of problems here, but obtaining him would be putting the cart before the horse given the mystery surrounding Smith's status moving forward.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/nate-davis/2019/01/02/antonio-brown-trade-pittsburgh-steelers-teams/2464007002/

[Mojouw]

So how low would you go? Because based on the offers for other disgruntled problem children, the remaining 31 teams will gladly make comically low offers.

Would you go to a third? A four? A two?

These borderline star player plus a high draft pick offers that have been plastered across the internet — not happening.

[stillers4me]

1081573042365628416

[Mojouw]

1081573042365628416

So the Steelers are going to take their time, do their due diligence, not react under emotional pressure, refuse to let outside voices influence their decision making, and only determine what their plan is once they have a series of collaborative sober discussions? Weird. That is so out of character for them. Nice change from their 4 decade plays pattern of going off half-cocked.

[DesertSteel]

So the Steelers are going to take their time, do their due diligence, not react under emotional pressure, refuse to let outside voices influence their decision making, and only determine what their plan is once they have a series of collaborative sober discussions? Weird. That is so out of character for them. Nice change from their 4 decade plays pattern of going off half-cocked.
Now that's an assumption :)

[AtlantaDan]

So the Steelers are going to take their time, do their due diligence, not react under emotional pressure, refuse to let outside voices influence their decision making, and only determine what their plan is once they have a series of collaborative sober discussions? Weird. That is so out of character for them. Nice change from their 4 decade plays pattern of going off half-cocked.

Of course they presumably have learned after their dealings with Mr Bell during this past season it is not just a matter of telling the player here is what we have decided to do after discussing the matter internally. Bell may have been irrational but it is fair to assume the Steelers collaborative sober discussions never contemplated him sitting out the entire season.

They need to figure out what the player's requirement(s) to buy in might be. When the player in this case has behaved with and away from the team in a manner that indicates he might benefit from mental health counseling, while bemoaning his lack of leverage, that could be challenging. Hard to bargain and reach a binding agreement with an unstable counterparty.

[Mojouw]

Of course they presumably have learned after their dealings with Mr Bell during this past season it is not just a matter of telling the player here is what we have decided to do after discussing the matter internally. Bell may have been irrational but it is fair to assume the Steelers collaborative sober discussions never contemplated him sitting out the entire season.

They need to figure out what the player's requirement(s) to buy in might be. When the player in this case has behaved with and away from the team in a manner that indicates he might benefit from mental health counseling, while bemoaning his lack of leverage, that could be challenging. Hard to bargain and reach a binding agreement with an unstable counterparty.

I think the drafting of Samuels and the rostering of Ridley absolutely indicates they contemplated Bell sitting out and had a plan for it.

It likely was viewed as a remote scenario and not a great plan. But they gameplanned for it.

[AtlantaDan]

I think the drafting of Samuels and the rostering of Ridley absolutely indicates they contemplated Bell sitting out and had a plan for it.

It likely was viewed as a remote scenario and not a great plan. But they gameplanned for it.

I saw taking Samuels in the fifth round as gameplanning for 2019 in the much more likely event Bell was gone after 2018. I would have anticipated signing a low $$ RB free agent to at least bring into camp as additional insurance if they thought Bell might stay away

The Steelers should not have been expected to foresee Bell would be the first tagged player in decades to sit out an entire season but I think management was as blindsided as everyone else, including Bell’s agent, other than Bell

Since they now know a player will do that, or in the case of Brown just act out repeatedly if he does report, I anticipate that is going to be a major point in favor of cutting ties.

[pczach]

I think the drafting of Samuels and the rostering of Ridley absolutely indicates they contemplated Bell sitting out and had a plan for it.

It likely was viewed as a remote scenario and not a great plan. But they gameplanned for it.


I feel that rostering Ridley was a mistake if they felt that they were going to have to rely on a backup RB more because Bell was going to hold out, I think they should have tried to upgrade the position and not keep a known fumbler. It's hard to account for all contingencies, but Ridley is another one of those Tomlin roster positions that needs to stop. Between Ridley, DHB, and Matakevich, they have players that offer nearly nothing at their respective positions with almost zero production. I think this whole situation is revealing one of the things he needs to improve when constructing a roster.

Ridley doesn't have any special skills and he has a fumbling problem.

Keeping Matakevich instead of trying to develop a young, athletic player like Matthew Thomas while ILB is a problem position for the team because they have too many guys that can't run and aren't athletic enough.

Keeping DHB as a WR and as a special teams demon when the unit sucks with him on it is getting harder and harder to justify. He gets called for a lot of penalties and even took an unnecessary roughness penalty this year on a return.

This needs to stop.

[Mojouw]

I feel that rostering Ridley was a mistake if they felt that they were going to have to rely on a backup RB more because Bell was going to hold out, I think they should have tried to upgrade the position and not keep a known fumbler. It's hard to account for all contingencies, but Ridley is another one of those Tomlin roster positions that needs to stop. Between Ridley, DHB, and Matakevich, they have players that offer nearly nothing at their respective positions with almost zero production. I think this whole situation is revealing one of the things he needs to improve when constructing a roster.

Ridley doesn't have any special skills and he has a fumbling problem.

Keeping Matakevich instead of trying to develop a young, athletic player like Matthew Thomas while ILB is a problem position for the team because they have too many guys that can't run and aren't athletic enough.

Keeping DHB as a WR and as a special teams demon when the unit sucks with him on it is getting harder and harder to justify. He gets called for a lot of penalties and even took an unnecessary roughness penalty this year on a return.

This needs to stop.

All of that is fairly true. BUt my point is that a bad plan is still a plan. I also think that DHB and Matakevich need upgraded, but that is the next step in the discussion - evaluating the plan. But I was merely responding to the idea that there wasn’t a contingency plan.

[pczach]

All of that is fairly true. BUt my point is that a bad plan is still a plan. I also think that DHB and Matakevich need upgraded, but that is the next step in the discussion - evaluating the plan. But I was merely responding to the idea that there wasn’t a contingency plan.


Sorry, my response wasn't to disagree with the point you made. I was saying the plan sucked and my bitterness about some roster decisions by Tomlin just came out.

This team isn't deep enough and IMO Tomlin is wasting roster spots on players that can't help the team on offense or defense.

[Mojouw]

Sorry, my response wasn't to disagree with the point you made. I was saying the plan sucked and my bitterness about some roster decisions by Tomlin just came out.

This team isn't deep enough and IMO Tomlin is wasting roster spots on players that can't help the team on offense or defense.

Oh. I am right there with you on that point. Matakevich over like anyone with a pulse. Hunter and DHB (although I think DHB is on the roster in an attempt to counterbalance the idiots on offense). And a handful of others.

[AtlantaDan]

This team isn't deep enough and IMO Tomlin is wasting roster spots on players that can't help the team on offense or defense.

Agreed

Ray Fittipaldo of the P-G tore into Tomlin about that after the Saints game

Tomlin has these pet projects like Ridley. He was on the street last December before the Steelers signed him. And yet they brought him back and he ends up costing them the game and perhaps the playoffs. Enough of these pet projects.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/24/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-12-24-18/stories/201812240078

[pczach]

Agreed

Ray Fittipaldo of the P-G tore into Tomlin about that after the Saints game

Tomlin has these pet projects like Ridley. He was on the street last December before the Steelers signed him. And yet they brought him back and he ends up costing them the game and perhaps the playoffs. Enough of these pet projects.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/24/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-12-24-18/stories/201812240078


In the cases of Ridley, DHB, and Matakevich, they know exactly what they have and what they can do....which isn't much. They are never going to get any better than they are right now. They need to have a few more players with potential to fill those roster spots, and then coach them the hell up and make them bust their asses on special teams. Having special team specialists that can't contribute at all on offense or defense on a team where the special teams units suck ass and there are gaping holes with position players is an embarrassment IMO.

[zulater]

In the cases of Ridley, DHB, and Matakevich, they know exactly what they have and what they can do....which isn't much. They are never going to get any better than they are right now. They need to have a few more players with potential to fill those roster spots, and then coach them the hell up and make them bust their asses on special teams. Having special team specialists that can't contribute at all on offense or defense on a team where the special teams units suck ass and there are gaping holes with position players is an embarrassment IMO.

That article claims that Ridley possibly cost the Steelers the Saints game?! No way! It was Ben! I'm not sure why? But I'm sure there was one or two plays he wasn't perfect on therefore it's obviously on him! :sarcasm:

[pczach]

That article claims that Ridley possibly cost the Steelers the Saints game?! No way! It was Ben! I'm not sure why? But I'm sure there was one or two plays he wasn't perfect on therefore it's obviously on him! :sarcasm:


I get it, but Ben made too many mistakes this year. He gets too much credit from some of us, but he gets far too little credit from so many others because they are emotionally attached to the team's success. Ben needs to be held responsible for some big mistakes, but those trying to crush him and put it all on him are out of their minds. Reasonable minds need to recognize the difference and not just blindly blame players or blindly exonerate them for everything they do.

[zulater]

I get it, but Ben made too many mistakes this year. He gets too much credit from some of us, but he gets far too little credit from so many others because they are emotionally attached to the team's success. Ben needs to be held responsible for some big mistakes, but those trying to crush him and put it all on him are out of their minds. Reasonable minds need to recognize the difference and not just blindly blame players or blindly exonerate them for everything they do.

I think we all recognize that it would be wise for the Steelers to get a better balance on their playcalling. To take less risks. I think AJR III should tell Tomlin to reign Ben in a little. But not too much. He's still the reason it all goes in the first place. I mean imagine losing a player of Lev Bell's ability and scoring more points, gaining more yards, getting more first downs and converting 3rd downs at a higher rate? The Steelers did all of those things in 2018. So why did we win less? Well we were worse defensively in all those aforementioned areas. Yes we turned the ball over 6 more times than last year. But that was due to more fumbles, the interceptions were the same. And defensively we were -5 in forced turnovers. Fact is I think the two biggest factors in our inferior record was Boswell's down year and a tougher schedule. Last season we basically played the bum of the week qb club. Indy, Green Bay both with their starters out. Texans and T.J. Yates. And oh yeah we had Shazier for much of the year. Put him on this year's team and I promise they're still playing this year. And lets not dismiss some poor officiating. No conspiracy theory, just caught the shitty end on too many bad and influential calls this season. There's been other years we've been on the other end of those. But not that I can remember to this degree. Regardless it just didn't happen this year.

But regardless Ben was much more a positive than negative force this season. If you told anyone at the beginning of the season that Bell wouldn't play a down but the offense would be more productive in virtually every statistical category would you have taken it?

[stillers4me]

1081881821942558723

[pczach]

I think we all recognize that it would be wise for the Steelers to get a better balance on their playcalling. To take less risks. I think AJR III should tell Tomlin to reign Ben in a little. But not too much. He's still the reason it all goes in the first place. I mean imagine losing a player of Lev Bell's ability and scoring more points, gaining more yards, getting more first downs and converting 3rd downs at a higher rate? The Steelers did all of those things in 2018. So why did we win less? Well we were worse defensively in all those aforementioned areas. Yes we turned the ball over 6 more times than last year. But that was due to more fumbles, the interceptions were the same. And defensively we were -5 in forced turnovers. Fact is I think the two biggest factors in our inferior record was Boswell's down year and a tougher schedule. Last season we basically played the bum of the week qb club. Indy, Green Bay both with their starters out. Texans and T.J. Yates. And oh yeah we had Shazier for much of the year. Put him on this year's team and I promise they're still playing this year. And lets not dismiss some poor officiating. No conspiracy theory, just caught the shitty end on too many bad and influential calls this season. There's been other years we've been on the other end of those. But not that I can remember to this degree. Regardless it just didn't happen this year.

But regardless Ben was much more a positive than negative force this season. If you told anyone at the beginning of the season that Bell wouldn't play a down but the offense would be more productive in virtually every statistical category would you have taken it?


Of course Ben isn't the entire problem with this team, but on a team that had little room for error he made too many mistakes this year. It's just what is expected of a great quarterback and he made a few too many mistakes. If he just eliminated even 4-5 of those, his season has a completely different feel to me. Many of his INTs came early in the season, and he did have a lot of miscommunication with receivers running wrong routes, stopping a route when they should have continued running, etc., but he also just made some terrible throws.

The thing that bothers me is that fans can't identify what really happened most of the time. When AB and Ben weren't connecting earlier in the season, everyone blamed Ben for missing AB. It just gets frustrating to try to explain to people that if Ben isn't having communication issues with any other WRs, it's the WR that is screwing up and running incorrect routes and it's not on the QB. We're finding out that AB's head has been a little off with some bizarre behavior, so maybe that had something to do with the issue as well. But when Ben makes mistakes reading coverages and throws the ball right to defenders too often, that's something he needs to be called out on. Hopefully, Fichtner is able to criticize Ben and help correct the number of times he makes those mistakes. If not, then that's a problem. Everyone needs to be accountable for screw ups, and Ben certainly isn't immune to them. He needs to take better care of the ball, particularly in certain situations.

With all that said, with my family's life on the line and one drive to win the game with 2 minutes left in the game? Ben is the guy I want pulling the trigger. He just has something that doesn't show up in stats, and he finds a way to get it done most of the time when it matters most. He is one of the best, if not the best to ever do it with the game on the line. It's something certain people are born with. It simply can't be taught. You either have it or you don't, and Ben has always had it. Playing big in big moments wins football games....not stats.


The team was fantastic with the TD ratio in the Red Zone this year. It was an historically good rate that they converted touchdowns. That is something that really improved this year. If they can stabilize the RB position and get a consistent running game as part of every game plan, along with keeping up the Red Zone efficiency and a better situational defense that gets the occasional turnover....there is no reason this team can't take a leap forward next year.

If fans have paid attention to how quickly the Colts have changed their entire identity and mindset with the addition of a few very talented players with character, they know that the locker room attitude can change in the blink of an eye. The performance on the field is like night and day. Some of that is also coaching. They have to work together to make it happen.

If the drama can be calmed down with this team and they find a way to fill some holes, contrary to what many think, I believe the sky is still the limit.

[86WARD]

I don’t know the answer, but how many of Ben’s misses to AB were just plain over throws (or misses) and how many were miscommunications (thrown wrong or route wrong)? I don’t recall that many being the latter where it was a blatant miscommunication...the overthrows are the ones that stick out to me or the ones where Ben’s ball lands a yard or two in the paint.

What I did notice from AB this year was a few more passes in the hands that were dropped than occurred in previous years and a few less “OMG catches” and that can happen if there’s distractions.

[pczach]

I don’t know the answer, but how many of Ben’s misses to AB were just plain over throws (or misses) and how many were miscommunications (thrown wrong or route wrong)? I don’t recall that many being the latter where it was a blatant miscommunication...the overthrows are the ones that stick out to me or the ones where Ben’s ball lands a yard or two in the paint.

What I did notice from AB this year was a few more passes in the hands that were dropped than occurred in previous years and a few less “OMG catches” and that can happen if there’s distractions.



Here's a great link with tons of stats and info about every quarterback. This really gives you a lot of information in one spot with stats you never hear about. Everyone should look at this:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards

[FrancoLambert]

This season can be summarized by a great quote from Robert Graves’ novel/dramatic series, “ I Claudius.”
”Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.”
They sure did.