Coaching Matters

[Edman]

John Harbaugh just took a Ravens team devoid of talent and in the midst of a quarterback mid-season change to the division title. When they had to win a game, they went out and won it. Went on the road to beat a smoking Chargers team in a must-win game. Give credit where it is due, it is top notch coaching.

Mike Tomlin just took a Steelers team loaded with talent on both sides of the ball right out of the playoffs.

They pass in the end zone against the Broncos. Despite the Broncos having the 27th ranked run defense, the Steelers do not run the ball to exploit that weakness.

They could not beat the Chargers when they needed to. James Conner stops getting the ball despite shredding the Chargers D.

They lose to the Oakland Raiders.

They neglected the running game in November and December.

They surrender a 3rd and 20 on Defense.

Juju fumbles with the game on the line against the Saints.

They were reckless with the football. Ben is second in the league in interceptions and the turnovers and are getting more numerous.

That sums up the story on this wasted season. Absolutely horrible coaching. I'm not sad or upset at this point. I've just accepted it.

[Craic]

Really? Is another thread saying the same thing truly necessary?

[Shoes]

John Harbaugh just took a Ravens team devoid of talent and in the midst of a quarterback mid-season change to the division title. When they had to win a game, they went out and won it. Went on the road to beat a smoking Chargers team in a must-win game. Give credit where it is due, it is top notch coaching.

Mike Tomlin just took a Steelers team loaded with talent on both sides of the ball right out of the playoffs.

They pass in the end zone against the Broncos. Despite the Broncos having the 27th ranked run defense, the Steelers do not run the ball to exploit that weakness.

They could not beat the Chargers when they needed to. James Conner stops getting the ball despite shredding the Chargers D.

They lose to the Oakland Raiders.

They neglected the running game in November and December.

They surrender a 3rd and 20 on Defense.

Juju fumbles with the game on the line against the Saints.

They were reckless with the football. Ben is second in the league in interceptions and the turnovers and are getting more numerous.

That sums up the story on this wasted season. Absolutely horrible coaching. I'm not sad or upset at this point. I've just accepted it.

I think the pick 6 today gave him the lead didn't it?

[st33lersguy]

Agreed, Tomlin is clueless. Baltimore is ready to make a run of a few consecutive playoff appearances and Pittsburgh is sticking with a complete underachiever at coach

[Mach1]

This team was 7-2-1 with the 2nd seed at one point. Only manages to eek out two more wins the rest of the way.

[lipps83]

How is Baltimore devoid of talent?

They had/have the number 1 defense in points and yards. How could you possibly think they are devoid of talent? Flacco has always been the problem on that team. Flacco sucks, that is why he was benched. It wasn't a genius move by Harbaugh, it was born out of necessity.

[Born2Steel]

COOL!!!! A thread where everyone can argue about Tomlin. I've been thinking we need one of these. Never thought i would miss a Le'Veon Bell thread.

[steelerdude15]

John Harbaugh just took a Ravens team devoid of talent and in the midst of a quarterback mid-season change to the division title. When they had to win a game, they went out and won it. Went on the road to beat a smoking Chargers team in a must-win game. Give credit where it is due, it is top notch coaching.

Mike Tomlin just took a Steelers team loaded with talent on both sides of the ball right out of the playoffs.

They pass in the end zone against the Broncos. Despite the Broncos having the 27th ranked run defense, the Steelers do not run the ball to exploit that weakness.

They could not beat the Chargers when they needed to. James Conner stops getting the ball despite shredding the Chargers D.

They lose to the Oakland Raiders.

They neglected the running game in November and December.

They surrender a 3rd and 20 on Defense.

Juju fumbles with the game on the line against the Saints.

They were reckless with the football. Ben is second in the league in interceptions and the turnovers and are getting more numerous.

That sums up the story on this wasted season. Absolutely horrible coaching. I'm not sad or upset at this point. I've just accepted it.

1. I would say that the Ravens are only talented on the defensive side of the ball. Their offense really isn't that good.

2. We are only talented on the offensive side of the ball. Other than a few players on defense, our defense players suck and that part of the roster needs refreshed again.

[Hawkman]

:deadhorse:

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COOL!!!! A thread where everyone can argue about Tomlin. I've been thinking we need one of these. Never thought i would miss a Le'Veon Bell thread.

.....or fire Haley thread.

[Craic]

:deadhorse:

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.....or fire Haley thread.
Oh man, I forgot about that smiley! :chuckle:

[Craic]

http://i.imgur.com/A58jc9l.gif

this one cracked me up.

[Hawkman]

http://i.imgur.com/A58jc9l.gif

this one cracked me up.

:rofl2:

[NCSteeler]

COOL!!!! A thread where everyone can argue about Tomlin. I've been thinking we need one of these. Never thought i would miss a Le'Veon Bell thread.

E could start a le’veon watch thread. [emoji41]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Born2Steel]

E could start a le’veon watch thread. [emoji41]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

:scared: GREAT IDEA!!!!!

[pepsyman1]

I think the pick 6 today gave him the lead didn't it?

Ben is a gambler. His TD to interception ratio is not a concern for me. He had 16 interceptions for the year but more than double that in TD's. I think some of that goes with his game. They averaged 27 points a game with Ben this year. I'll take it.

[smokin3000gt]

It's going to be a looonngg off season

[teegre]

Question:
If the Browns pull that game out, are we not ripping John Harbaugh for pissing away the season early on? Really. The Steelers were dead after four games, but Harbaugh allowed the Steelers to creep back into the AFC North race with early losses to the Bengals & Bengals.

Sure, Harbaugh’s 6-1 run came at the end; so, it’s fresher in people’s minds. But, his “collapse” came early in the season... which no one seems to remember.

SUMMATION:
2 points was ultimately the difference between these two teams’ seasons.

[Mojouw]

Devoid of talent.

I'm gonna guess you don't really understand what Devoid means.

Do people watch other NFL games? Read or listen to non hot take analysis?

It sure doesn't seem that way.

QB, OL, and WR are the only position groups Steelers have a clear advantage in when compared to most NFL rosters. I'd be okay with adding DL to that mix. But they are below the bar at LB and DB. K and Punter as well. Defensive depth is almost non existent.

Gotta start with an honest evaluation. And that simply doesn't happen here often.

This is a 9-10 win team. Not the 12-14 win juggernaut many seem to assume it is.

[pepsyman1]

QB, OL, and WR are the only position groups Steelers have a clear advantage in when compared to most NFL rosters. I'd be okay with adding DL to that mix. But they are below the bar at LB and DB. K and Punter as well. Defensive depth is almost non existent.

Gotta start with an honest evaluation. And that simply doesn't happen here often.

This is a 9-10 win team. Not the 12-14 win juggernaut many seem to assume it is.

Good assessment. I think the offensive talent is top notch (especially with Munchak's work on the OL). Defense we are way behind the 8 ball, but I think some of that is lack of development from our coaching staff, just as was the case before Munchak worked his magic with the lineman that were already in house.

[cubanstogie]

Question:
If the Browns pull that game out, are we not ripping John Harbaugh for pissing away the season early on? Really. The Steelers were dead after four games, but Harbaugh allowed the Steelers to creep back into the AFC North race with early losses to the Bengals & Bengals.

Sure, Harbaugh’s 6-1 run came at the end; so, it’s fresher in people’s minds. But, his “collapse” came early in the season... which no one seems to remember.

SUMMATION:
2 points was ultimately the difference between these two teams’ seasons.
Say the Browns completed one more pass at end and kicked FG, or say they didn't miss FG in first half or refs didn't screw up 99 yard fumble return. Are we still saying Harbaugh is the best thing since sliced bread. Or if Boz happened to make the FG against Browns or Raiders is Tomlin all of a sudden off the chopping block. Its more about execution than coaching. Obviously coaching matters but the players make the coach look good. Harbaugh and Tomlin are in the upper echelon of NFL coaches IMO but like you said a couple of points here and there and Steelers win division and Harbaugh is on chopping block. If we had Justin Tucker these fire Tomlin threads wouldn't exist.

[Mojouw]

Good assessment. I think the offensive talent is top notch (especially with Munchak's work on the OL). Defense we are way behind the 8 ball, but I think some of that is lack of development from our coaching staff, just as was the case before Munchak worked his magic with the lineman that were already in house.

The development issue is troubling. And hard to pin down. For every Dupree there is a Watt, VW, Shazier, Chickillo, and Fort who ALL got better under the same coaching.

In the secondary it's more stark. Hilton and Davis seem to be doing okay. Maybe Edmunds. But Burns, Sutton, and Allen seem to have regressed.

Hopefully a totally new staff comes in and makes some headway. I think that Burns, Dupree, Sutton, and Allen are all young enough to be salvaged but 2019 is make or break.

[Fire Goodell]

Patriots wouldn't miss the playoffs if they started off 7-2-1 even if Brady got IR'ed. Just saying.

[cubanstogie]

Good assessment. I think the offensive talent is top notch (especially with Munchak's work on the OL). Defense we are way behind the 8 ball, but I think some of that is lack of development from our coaching staff, just as was the case before Munchak worked his magic with the lineman that were already in house.
The offensive talent would be top notch if the kicker wasn't worst in league and QB didn't lead league in pics. I agree on paper they are capable, and its hard to criticize Bens pics because without him there is no chance of winning, but he had some awful pics this year. I really think Bens pics and gambling this year was due to the fact that he knew the game was on him, no chance of D bailing offense out. Then last week he plays great no turnovers and instead there are 2 fumbles. As good as offense was they needed to be perfect with the the below average D to beat good teams, and thats tough in this league.

[fansince'76]

Patriots wouldn't miss the playoffs if they started off 7-2-1 even if Brady got IR'ed. Just saying.

Nobody else in their division won more than 7 games this year. Outside of NE, the AFC Least has been a joke year after year after year.


Sure, Harbaugh’s 6-1 run came at the end; so, it’s fresher in people’s minds. But, his “collapse” came early in the season... which no one seems to remember.

Not to mention the fact that this will be the Ravens' first postseason appearance since 2014...

[pczach]

Devoid of talent.

I'm gonna guess you don't really understand what Devoid means.

Do people watch other NFL games? Read or listen to non hot take analysis?

It sure doesn't seem that way.

QB, OL, and WR are the only position groups Steelers have a clear advantage in when compared to most NFL rosters. I'd be okay with adding DL to that mix. But they are below the bar at LB and DB. K and Punter as well. Defensive depth is almost non existent.

Gotta start with an honest evaluation. And that simply doesn't happen here often.

This is a 9-10 win team. Not the 12-14 win juggernaut many seem to assume it is.



Yep, and here's why.

The Steelers got 5 total starts from Ryan Shazier….Martavis Bryant....Le'Veon Bell.....Marcus Gilbert. $22.5 million dollars in salary cap went to Shazier and Bell that couldn't be spent on helping the roster.

Name me another NFL team that isn't devastated losing that much talent before the season starts. 2 Pro Bowl players didn't play a single snap(Shazier, Bell) and 1 Pro Bowl level player(Gilbert) starts 5 games this year.

They also traded Bryant, an established deep threat and homerun hitter because he is addicted to weed. I know they got a draft pick and I know that it was a genius move by Colbert based on how it all turned out, but it hurt. 3 Pro Bowl players and one of the best deep threat WR's in the NFL is a significant hit to take. When you then add the financial hit of money they couldn't use to fill holes in the roster, they had zero room for error and no depth.

Anyone that objectively looks at what I just posted here has to know that a team that loses that much talent is going to take a hit.

I would give Tomlin another year. If he doesn't turn it around, it's probably time.

Most of the losses listed here were on the offensive side of the ball, and the offense had to carry the team. That's tough on a QB and an offense in general. The Shazier injury was devastating.

I would still move on from Butler. I don't like how he schemes. He leaves mismatches all over the field. Not all of it is his fault, but he doesn't find ways to mask deficiencies and he's on the wrong end when matching wits with offensive coordinators and adjustments. With that said, imagine how much better this team would have been with Watt and Shazier being on the field at the same time. They need athletic LB help and secondary talent playing in the proper scheme.

Next year is the year when they get a chance to use the entire salary cap and they get to fill those holes with offseason moves and a draft. They should have all the answers to all the questions.

What a crazy year this was.

[86WARD]

Devoid of talent.

I'm gonna guess you don't really understand what Devoid means.

Do people watch other NFL games? Read or listen to non hot take analysis?

It sure doesn't seem that way.

QB, OL, and WR are the only position groups Steelers have a clear advantage in when compared to most NFL rosters. I'd be okay with adding DL to that mix. But they are below the bar at LB and DB. K and Punter as well. Defensive depth is almost non existent.

Gotta start with an honest evaluation. And that simply doesn't happen here often.

This is a 9-10 win team. Not the 12-14 win juggernaut many seem to assume it is.

I said this at the beginning of last off season. Other than the DL, the rest of the defense is beyond weak. Coaching can help that to a point but that’s not there either. There’s just way to much that needs to be fixed for it to happen quickly and from last season to this point, it doesn’t look like any of it was fixed from one season to the next.

[Mojouw]

Yep, and here's why.

The Steelers got 5 total starts from Ryan Shazier….Martavis Bryant....Le'Veon Bell.....Marcus Gilbert. $22.5 million dollars in salary cap went to Shazier and Bell that couldn't be spent on helping the roster.

Name me another NFL team that isn't devastated losing that much talent before the season starts. 2 Pro Bowl players didn't play a single snap(Shazier, Bell) and 1 Pro Bowl level player(Gilbert) starts 5 games this year.

They also traded Bryant, an established deep threat and homerun hitter because he is addicted to weed. I know they got a draft pick and I know that it was a genius move by Colbert based on how it all turned out, but it hurt. 3 Pro Bowl players and one of the best deep threat WR's in the NFL is a significant hit to take. When you then add the financial hit of money they couldn't use to fill holes in the roster, they had zero room for error and no depth.

Anyone that objectively looks at what I just posted here has to know that a team that loses that much talent is going to take a hit.

I would give Tomlin another year. If he doesn't turn it around, it's probably time.

Most of the losses listed here were on the offensive side of the ball, and the offense had to carry the team. That's tough on a QB and an offense in general. The Shazier injury was devastating.

I would still move on from Butler. I don't like how he schemes. He leaves mismatches all over the field. Not all of it is his fault, but he doesn't find ways to mask deficiencies and he's on the wrong end when matching wits with offensive coordinators and adjustments. With that said, imagine how much better this team would have been with Watt and Shazier being on the field at the same time. They need athletic LB help and secondary talent playing in the proper scheme.

Next year is the year when they get a chance to use the entire salary cap and they get to fill those holes with offseason moves and a draft. They should have all the answers to all the questions.

What a crazy year this was.

Couldn't agree more. But apparently that is still all the result of bad coaching. A defense depending on one elite playmaker is apparently a coaching sin.

Despite the dependency of the Bears on Mack. The collapse of the Chiefs without Berry. The Rams on Donald. Or the Fslcons on Jones. Or the entire league on their talented playmskers.

Also attempts to explain things are simply the excuses of the soft minded.

What gets lost in all the noise is that despite how well Fieler played, he was still a massive downgrade from Gilbert. The entire offensive gameplan changes when the two are swapped. Want to talk about running the ball, why is no one talking about losing your best run blocker?

There are so many tangible on field reasons to discuss and debate. You bring up several. But instead, it is morass of Mark Madden level yelling. Frustrating.

[tube517]

:deadhorse:

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.....or fire H̶a̶l̶e̶y̶ Arians thread.

Fixed. :chuckle:

[NCSteeler]

Couldn't agree more. But apparently that is still all the result of bad coaching. A defense depending on one elite playmaker is apparently a coaching sin.

Despite the dependency of the Bears on Mack. The collapse of the Chiefs without Berry. The Rams on Donald. Or the Fslcons on Jones. Or the entire league on their talented playmskers.

Also attempts to explain things are simply the excuses of the soft minded.

What gets lost in all the noise is that despite how well Fieler played, he was still a massive downgrade from Gilbert. The entire offensive gameplan changes when the two are swapped. Want to talk about running the ball, why is no one talking about losing your best run blocker?

There are so many tangible on field reasons to discuss and debate. You bring up several. But instead, it is morass of Mark Madden level yelling. Frustrating.Agreed, most teams rely on a star to hold things together, but it's not like shazier went down week one. The coaches had all off-season attempt to find a replacement and get the on field communication right even if it was by a lesser athlete. I'm not sure they ever got that right. Also many articles I read point out what seems like blatantly bad calls on coverages and sub packages.

Bad coaching. Butler has to go, I'd dump Porter too, DBs have regressed but without proper communication it's hard to tell if they are actually that bad or miss assigned.

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[Mojouw]

Agreed, most teams rely on a star to hold things together, but it's not like shazier went down week one. The coaches had all off-season attempt to find a replacement and get the on field communication right even if it was by a lesser athlete. I'm not sure they ever got that right. Also many articles I read point out what seems like blatantly bad calls on coverages and sub packages.

Bad coaching. Butler has to go, I'd dump Porter too, DBs have regressed but without proper communication it's hard to tell if they are actually that bad or miss assigned.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
Sure and those are all valid points. Arguing that a coach or player should be fired for specific and tangible reasons is one thing. Arguing that coaches and players should be fired because they made you sad is another thing entirely.

[teegre]

If we had Justin Tucker these fire Tomlin threads wouldn't exist.

Or, if Boz has just been the Boz of 2016 & 2017.

Week 1: misses game-winning FG

Week 12: misses FG

Week 14: misses two FGs

All three of those were losses. The first was a walk-off game-winning FG; the second helped us lose; and, the last game (two) would have been given us a win. That’s two (likely three) games where kicking decides the game... and, our season.

[Shoes]

Very good read from DK Pittsburgh Sports News Kovacevic: Rooney needs to break his mold … because Tomlin’s model is now broken

[DesertSteel]

There is less than a 1% chance of Tomlin being fired. I'd give Butler about a 10% chance and the ST guy about 20%.

I don't like Tomlin as a coach at this stage (I was a supporter for years). I think he'd be a much better studio analyst than he is a head coach. Perhaps he'll do an early retirement in a year or two to go into TV....