Fire Tomlin? Then Who Gets Hired?

[AtlantaDan]

Not getting to the playoffs after making it 4 straight years while committing the cardinal sin of not winning the Super Bowl during that time obviously requires Tomlin to be fired.

Who are you going to hire that presumably will do better?

That candidate will wants to join an organization that pulls the trigger on a coach with Tomlin's record when there are HC vacancies with a younger roster of good talent & a more patient fan base (the Browns) and an aging but arguably better franchise QB (Green Bay).

In making that assessment, consider the possibility this may not be the best year to go head coach shopping.

An uninspiring group of potential coaching candidates may help many NFL coaches keep their jobs

One agent called it the least exciting group of candidates he’s seen in decades. An executive with one team said: “It might be one of those years where you look at your own guy a lot differently because you don’t feel like you can do better.”

It’s not that there aren’t capable candidates on the market. [Mike] McCarthy is a former Super Bowl winner and could land another job quickly. Former coaches Jim Caldwell and Chuck Pagano already have been interviewed by the Packers. The group of assistant coaches who could in line for promotions includes offensive coordinators Josh McDaniels of New England, Eric Bieniemy of Kansas City and the Los Angeles Chargers’ Ken Whisenhunt; Pittsburgh offensive line coach Mike Munchak; Dallas secondary coach Kris Richard; and New England linebackers coach Brian Flores.

But unless a team is able to lure a prominent college coach such as Oklahoma’s Lincoln Riley, Michigan’s Jim Harbaugh or Alabama’s Nick Saban to the pro ranks, there won’t be a hire made that qualifies as a big-splash move.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/28/an-uninspiring-group-coaching-candidates-may-help-many-nfl-coaches-keep-their-jobs/?utm_term=.b3e5fe860672

Since the year the current CBA was agreed to—a CBA that lead to new TV deals, which showered owners in disposable cash with which to pay plenty of fired coaches—there have been 57 head-coaching changes (not including interim coaching switches) over eight hiring cycles. Only six clubs (New England, Cincinnati, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Seattle) haven’t hired coaches over that span.

That adds up to 26 teams accounting for more than two coaching changes per team since 2011. Take that, and you may be able to guess the affect on the candidate pool.

It’s been sapped dry.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/27/nfl-coaching-rumors-2019-browns-jets-buccaneers-dolphins-ravens

And if your answer is Mike Munchak, ask yourself if he would take the job given his presumed loyalty to the head coach who got canned.

Fire away

[steel striker]

Yeah that has always been my question as well. Munchak or Mike McCarthy? Tomlin does not make very in game decisions and, it's not getting any better.

[DesertSteel]

I've always liked Brian Shaw of Stanford, who has an NFL pedigree.

[Dwinsgames]

I will say it again ...

who would have known Cowher would replace Noll ..... or Tomlin would replace Cowher .... have to do the search to make a choice ... but criteria would likely be rising assistant 40 or under ..so maybe John DeFilippo or Kris Richard or Lincoln Riley ?

[DesertSteel]

Now that you mention Cowher, he will work too. He's still young enough.

- - - Updated - - -

Then he can win with Tomlin's players...

[steelreserve]

These threads and this argument in general are stupid, because they assume the only good move is to hire an established NFL head coach with as much or more success than the one in place. That's pretty rare and not the way most organizations find success. Kind of parallels the argument of "you can never find free agents that will help" when really the problem is the same - you are limiting the scope of your theoretical search to a very narrow sliver of the available options just so you can be a naysayer.

The next head coaching candidate is probably someone we haven't heard of. Some NFL assistant, a college coach with NFL experience, there are probably 100 guys you could consider. And not one of them could possibly be any better than average as a head coach? And you know this how? I mean, Tomlin himself was just such a guy. Gimme a break.

[fansince'76]

Now that you mention Cowher, he will work too. He's still young enough.

- - - Updated - - -

Then he can win with Tomlin's players...

There was never any love lost between Art II and Cowher, IIRC.

Which is also another thing to consider - it's historically been either the Chief's or Dan's call on the HC hires, as few and far between as they've been. And fairly or unfairly, I still consider Art II to be a Rooney in name only and don't trust him nearly as much to make the right choice.

[lipps83]

Replace Tomlin with Keith Butler.






If you want to secure the #1 pick in the next draft.

[Shoes]

Tyler Eifert

[86WARD]

I will say it again ...

who would have known Cowher would replace Noll ..... or Tomlin would replace Cowher .... have to do the search to make a choice ... but criteria would likely be rising assistant 40 or under ..so maybe John DeFilippo or Kris Richard or Lincoln Riley ?

This.

You can’t answer the question...you have to trust the process...

[DesertSteel]

These threads and this argument in general are stupid, because they assume the only good move is to hire an established NFL head coach with as much or more success than the one in place. That's pretty rare and not the way most organizations find success. Kind of parallels the argument of "you can never find free agents that will help" when really the problem is the same - you are limiting the scope of your theoretical search to a very narrow sliver of the available options just so you can be a naysayer.

The next head coaching candidate is probably someone we haven't heard of. Some NFL assistant, a college coach with NFL experience, there are probably 100 guys you could consider. And not one of them could possibly be any better than average as a head coach? And you know this how? I mean, Tomlin himself was just such a guy. Gimme a break.
So... in other words, you've got nothing?

[Butch]

I will say it again ...

who would have known Cowher would replace Noll ..... or Tomlin would replace Cowher .... have to do the search to make a choice ... but criteria would likely be rising assistant 40 or under ..so maybe John DeFilippo or Kris Richard or Lincoln Riley ?

My son and I have had this discussion, and I have said basically the same thing with others on here as well. Most likely the one who replaces Tomlin is someone we have never heard of. Not saying he will be replaced but if he is this is my thought process.

[Mojouw]

So the leading choices are guys that are in college jobs because they failed hard in the NFL, assistants that have been fired this season, and a guy who can run the hell out of an offense but whose defense has never stopped anyone good.

Or the guy who has won 2 out of 3 NFL games he has coached?

Defensive Coordinator I'll get behind and even lead the charge. But gotta put forth better ideas than retreads and proven failures.

Might as well just hire Jim Caldwell or Vance Joseph.

[Dwinsgames]

So the leading choices are guys that are in college jobs because they failed hard in the NFL, assistants that have been fired this season, and a guy who can run the hell out of an offense but whose defense has never stopped anyone good.

Or the guy who has won 2 out of 3 NFL games he has coached?

Defensive Coordinator I'll get behind and even lead the charge. But gotta put forth better ideas than retreads and proven failures.

Might as well just hire Jim Caldwell or Vance Joseph.

retreads and proven failures ?

really now ....


Lincoln Riley never coached in the NFL .....

Kris Richard was the guy who is largely given credit to developing the legion of boom in Seattle ( key word developing ) something we have been damned short of capable of ....

but hey we can keep rolling the same old train out there and keep getting the same shitty results ..... missed playoffs , early exits from the playoffs ... what 2 wins vs backup QBs in playoffs in last 8 or 9 tries ... sounds like a real plan to me ( if your plan is closing Bens window with no more hardware that is )

[st33lersguy]

Better to at least try someone new than stick with what currently isn't working. Let's put it this way

Try someone new at head coach: Could end in spectacular failure, could face playoff disappointment annually, but could also be a real success and win (at least) another Super Bowl

Stick with Tomlin: Continue to underachieve and face annual disappointment until Ben retires then miss the playoffs annually.

You can either shoot for a Super Bowl with someone new or stick to a ceiling of constant underachieving because you are too afraid of spectacular failure. At this point, what is the difference between sticking with Tomlin and the Bengals sticking with Marvin Lewis?

[hawaiiansteeler]

You can either shoot for a Super Bowl with someone new or stick to a ceiling of constant underachieving because you are too afraid of spectacular failure. At this point, what is the difference between sticking with Tomlin and the Bengals sticking with Marvin Lewis?

for starters Marvin Lewis has never won even a playoff game, Tomlin has won a Super Bowl.

https://www.wm.edu/news/images/archive/2009/photosets/tomlin-victory/tomlin2.jpg

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Get two shovels and dig up Buddy Ryan. At least he will make the defense better and won't make any stupid challenges.

[st33lersguy]

for starters Marvin Lewis has never won even a playoff game, Tomlin has won a Super Bowl.

https://www.wm.edu/news/images/archive/2009/photosets/tomlin-victory/tomlin2.jpg

What has he done this decade other than grossly underachieve with high end talent? They just celebrated the 10th anniversary of his only Super Bowl win. Mike McCarthy got fired for a good reason for recent underachievement and it was the right move (and McCarthy won a more recent Super Bowl)

[Dwinsgames]

What has he done this decade other than grossly underachieve with high end talent? They just celebrated the 10th anniversary of his only Super Bowl win. Mike McCarthy got fired for a good reason for recent underachievement and it was the right move (and McCarthy won a more recent Super Bowl) against Tomlin

fixed it

[Shoes]

What has he done this decade other than grossly underachieve with high end talent? They just celebrated the 10th anniversary of his only Super Bowl win. Mike McCarthy got fired for a good reason for recent underachievement and it was the right move (and McCarthy won a more recent Super Bowl)


That doesn't matter, all that matters is the Steelers only had 3 coaches in 45 years. Keep repeating that 5 times a day, year-round and you will win a SB.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

That doesn't matter, all that matters is the Steelers only had 3 coaches in 45 years. Keep repeating that 5 times a day, year-round and you will win a SB. That is a impressive stat that matters more then super bowls to The Rooney's. Seriously I think most of the NFL owners are happy with winning seasons from their coach.

[hawaiiansteeler]

That doesn't matter, all that matters is the Steelers only had 3 coaches in 45 years. Keep repeating that 5 times a day, year-round and you will win a SB.

you will win 6 of them to be exact, more than any other NFL franchise...

[Shoes]

you will win 6 of them to be exact, more than any other NFL franchise...

Patent that formula and you'll become a rich man. They were won by the labor of Dan Rooney, not because of the football knowledge of his father and son. We'll see how that formula works in the future.

Belichick has 5 SB in 18 years, Lewis has zero in 15 years. It's the coach and organization, not the years.

[Craic]

Patent that formula then and you'll become a rich man. They were won by the labor of Dan Rooney, not because of the football knowledge of his father and son. We'll see how that formula works in the future.

This. And, this is one of the reasons I'm hesitation to see Tomlin go. He was the a DR hire, and DR had a golden touch for most of his career. I do not want ARII touching the HC position for at least another half decade. And for those who state "just another half decade of mediocrity," I say: I know a school in England that would like to speak with you about a position in divination.

[Steeler-in-west]

Rams let go of Jeff Fisher and replaced him with little known Sean McVay

they went from bottom dweller to an NFC powerhouse that season

If the rams can do some research and find the right guy so can the Steelers

[GoSlash27]

That doesn't matter, all that matters is the Steelers only had 3 coaches in 45 years. Keep repeating that 5 times a day, year-round and you will win a SB.

Also the best win/ loss record in the league during the tenure of those 3 coaches, as well as the most Lombardis. These facts are not unrelated. Stability is a key factor in winning franchises, and you never want to upset that unless it's an actual emergency. Given the fact that Tomlin is the winningest coach in the league today and franchise history and has never had a losing season, I'd say it's prudent to stick with him.

[teegre]

In 2013, the Taperiots and their fans were screaming that Belichick has lost “it”. Some were saying that Belichick can only win with “Pete Carroll’s players.” Some fans even admitted that maybe Belichick had indeed cheated (and that he simply cannot win without cheating).

Sure, Belichick had been to two Super Bowls during that 10 year “drought”, but the Taperiots fan base was used to Lombardis... and anything less was seen as a “wasted” season. “It’s been a decade since our last championship!!!”

(Sound familiar?)

My point is that Robert Kraft stuck with the guy who he knew was a good hire a decade prior.

[Shoes]

Also the best win/ loss record in the league during the tenure of those 3 coaches, as well as the most Lombardis. These facts are not unrelated. Stability is a key factor in winning franchises, and you never want to upset that unless it's an actual emergency. Given the fact that Tomlin is the winningest coach in the league today and franchise history and has never had a losing season, I'd say it's prudent to stick with him.


He is?

[teegre]

He is?

Belichick: 47%
Tomlin: 53%

[Shoes]

In 2013, the Taperiots and their fans were screaming that Belichick has lost “it”. Some were saying that Belichick can only win with “Pete Carroll’s players.” Some fans even admitted that maybe Belichick had indeed cheated (and that he simply cannot win without cheating).

Sure, Belichick had been to two Super Bowls during that 10 year “drought”, but the Taperiots fan base was used to Lombardis... and anything less was seen as a “wasted” season. “It’s been a decade since our last championship!!!”

(Sound familiar?)

My point is that Robert Kraft stuck with the guy who he knew was a good hire a decade prior.

That is what is important. Besides 5 SB for the Pats, Belichick had 2 SB as a DC with the Giants

[teegre]

That is what is important. Besides 5 SB for the Pats, Belichick had 2 SB as a DC with the Giants

Tomlin essentially won the Super Bowl for the Buccaneers. His secondary knew how to return INTs (akin to James Harrison’s INT return).

[Shoes]

Belichick: 47%
Tomlin: 53%


What's wrong with this picture? :chuckle:

[teegre]

What's wrong with this picture? :chuckle:

I wouldn’t have bet my mortgage on it, either. :lol:

[Shoes]

I wouldn’t have bet my mortgage on it, either. :lol:


:chuckle:

[steelreserve]

So... in other words, you've got nothing?

In other words, everyone's got nothing.

A few well-worn names can be tossed around, with obvious reasons why they would be no better (or not be available). Anything else is out of bounds, some shot in the dark that must not be taken seriously if the mere fan brings it up. But 99% for certain, a new coach will come from those ranks and not the "known quantities."

Do I know who that could be? No. Do you know who it could be? Also no.

So all we're left with is "I think hypothetical candidate X could never be more than a crappy NFL coach," but literally talking about hypothetical candidate X because you cannot even replace the X with an actual name. Not a really fruitful debate.

The better question, and the only one that we can really answer, is "Has Tomlin done a good enough job?"

The answer to that it yes, he's been good enough. But that's all we've been, for a decade: good enough.

It's getting to the point where "good enough" is not really enough. Over 10 years we've not been more than a longshot title contender, and we haven't moved from there. Over that period of time, the team needs to be trending upward, or if it's near the top, it needs to stay there. One gets the distinct impression that given another 10 years of the same, we will just continue to be a Tier 2 power with occasional peaks at Tier 1A. The Georgia Bulldogs or Wisconsin Badgers of pro football. I think you have to aim for more than that at some point, and if we are not at the point, we're damn close. It's a risk for sure, but I am getting sick of what seems to be stagnation, and a lot of others are in the same boat from what I can tell.

[Mojouw]

It is pretty easy to outline what the Steelers would want in a new HC. I would say an ideal candidate would have the following qualities:

1. A young offensive focused coach. Kind of be your own OC kinda thing. Best offenses are being run by HC because a great OC just gets poached in 1-3 years.

2. Comes along with an innovative and flexible defensive coordinator. Absolute necessity as the HC won’t be doing crap on defense because he won’t know it at all. No point in hiring a defensive focused head coach as aside from Tomlin and the evil hoodie, very few defensive HC hires have down well in the past handful of years.

3. Must have a plan for maximizing his fancy pants offensive schemes to the existing talents and preferences of the high end offensive line, WRs, RBs, and TEs that are already in place. If he wants to reinvent the wheel, not all that interested.

4. Needs to be able to come in and command a locker room and win the respect of veterans and get them to buy in. Look at Matt Patricia in Detroit. Brought in to take a 9-10 win team to 12-13 wins and playoff glory. Instead he did a ton of Mickey Mouse crap and tried to copy Patriot Way or whatever and it totally backfired. Many speculate Patricia loses the job. The Lions wasted another year of Stafford’s prime and they are likely reinventing the whole thing yet again in 2019 or 2020.

The dream scenario would be a Frank Reich kinda hire. The nightmare is Patricia or Difilipo (if he cant make the Vikings offense run, how does he make a team run?). Combine that with the idea that does anyone really want to put Ben R in another system at this point in his career and I think a HC hire is a poor idea for 2019.

My plan would be the following:

1. The entire defensive staff goes. I go get some one from college that has been schemeing against these spread attacks for a few seasons. Ive already tossed out Jim Leonard, I’m sure there are other names. Let them put together a young and hungry defensive staff and see what happens.

2. Hire a QB coach. I do not believe the team currently has one. This accomplishes several things. Let’s Fichtner concentrate solely on planning and tactics. Gives someone the role of getting in Ben’s ear during games and reining him in when he gets dumb and INT happy. Additionally, it provides another voice in the offense that may lead to even more innovation, efficiency, and/or balance. It also dedicates someone to the role of developing Dobbs and Rudolph. Finally, a QB coach could be a stepping stone to OC in case Fichtner leaves or flames out.

3. Consider bundling picks to get an impact defender that can create turnovers and force 3rd down stops. WHether this be a high first rounder with a Derwin James like impact or a younger player who becomes available.

[Shoes]

It is pretty easy to outline what the Steelers would want in a new HC. I would say an ideal candidate would have the following qualities:

1. A young offensive focused coach. Kind of be your own OC kinda thing. Best offenses are being run by HC because a great OC just gets poached in 1-3 years.

2. Comes along with an innovative and flexible defensive coordinator. Absolute necessity as the HC won’t be doing crap on defense because he won’t know it at all. No point in hiring a defensive focused head coach as aside from Tomlin and the evil hoodie, very few defensive HC hires have down well in the past handful of years.

3. Must have a plan for maximizing his fancy pants offensive schemes to the existing talents and preferences of the high end offensive line, WRs, RBs, and TEs that are already in place. If he wants to reinvent the wheel, not all that interested.

4. Needs to be able to come in and command a locker room and win the respect of veterans and get them to buy in. Look at Matt Patricia in Detroit. Brought in to take a 9-10 win team to 12-13 wins and playoff glory. Instead he did a ton of Mickey Mouse crap and tried to copy Patriot Way or whatever and it totally backfired. Many speculate Patricia loses the job. The Lions wasted another year of Stafford’s prime and they are likely reinventing the whole thing yet again in 2019 or 2020.

The dream scenario would be a Frank Reich kinda hire. The nightmare is Patricia or Difilipo (if he cant make the Vikings offense run, how does he make a team run?). Combine that with the idea that does anyone really want to put Ben R in another system at this point in his career and I think a HC hire is a poor idea for 2019.

My plan would be the following:

1. The entire defensive staff goes. I go get some one from college that has been schemeing against these spread attacks for a few seasons. Ive already tossed out Jim Leonard, I’m sure there are other names. Let them put together a young and hungry defensive staff and see what happens.

2. Hire a QB coach. I do not believe the team currently has one. This accomplishes several things. Let’s Fichtner concentrate solely on planning and tactics. Gives someone the role of getting in Ben’s ear during games and reining him in when he gets dumb and INT happy. Additionally, it provides another voice in the offense that may lead to even more innovation, efficiency, and/or balance. It also dedicates someone to the role of developing Dobbs and Rudolph. Finally, a QB coach could be a stepping stone to OC in case Fichtner leaves or flames out.

3. Consider bundling picks to get an impact defender that can create turnovers and force 3rd down stops. WHether this be a high first rounder with a Derwin James like impact or a younger player who becomes available.

I like. I like the Leonard toss also.

[DesertSteel]

In other words, everyone's got nothing.

Since 2008 the Steelers got nothing.

[GoSlash27]

Since 2008 the Steelers got nothing.

110-64-1. 6 (possibly 7) years in the playoffs, 1 SB appearance, ZERO losing seasons. There's 30 other fan bases out there who would kill to have that kind of record.
Holy jeez... You'd think this was the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Washington Generals the way people expect this one team to win all the time.

[86WARD]

It is pretty easy to outline what the Steelers would want in a new HC. I would say an ideal candidate would have the following qualities:

1. A young offensive focused coach. Kind of be your own OC kinda thing. Best offenses are being run by HC because a great OC just gets poached in 1-3 years.

2. Comes along with an innovative and flexible defensive coordinator. Absolute necessity as the HC won’t be doing crap on defense because he won’t know it at all. No point in hiring a defensive focused head coach as aside from Tomlin and the evil hoodie, very few defensive HC hires have down well in the past handful of years.

3. Must have a plan for maximizing his fancy pants offensive schemes to the existing talents and preferences of the high end offensive line, WRs, RBs, and TEs that are already in place. If he wants to reinvent the wheel, not all that interested.

4. Needs to be able to come in and command a locker room and win the respect of veterans and get them to buy in. Look at Matt Patricia in Detroit. Brought in to take a 9-10 win team to 12-13 wins and playoff glory. Instead he did a ton of Mickey Mouse crap and tried to copy Patriot Way or whatever and it totally backfired. Many speculate Patricia loses the job. The Lions wasted another year of Stafford’s prime and they are likely reinventing the whole thing yet again in 2019 or 2020.

The dream scenario would be a Frank Reich kinda hire. The nightmare is Patricia or Difilipo (if he cant make the Vikings offense run, how does he make a team run?). Combine that with the idea that does anyone really want to put Ben R in another system at this point in his career and I think a HC hire is a poor idea for 2019.

My plan would be the following:

1. The entire defensive staff goes. I go get some one from college that has been schemeing against these spread attacks for a few seasons. Ive already tossed out Jim Leonard, I’m sure there are other names. Let them put together a young and hungry defensive staff and see what happens.

2. Hire a QB coach. I do not believe the team currently has one. This accomplishes several things. Let’s Fichtner concentrate solely on planning and tactics. Gives someone the role of getting in Ben’s ear during games and reining him in when he gets dumb and INT happy. Additionally, it provides another voice in the offense that may lead to even more innovation, efficiency, and/or balance. It also dedicates someone to the role of developing Dobbs and Rudolph. Finally, a QB coach could be a stepping stone to OC in case Fichtner leaves or flames out.

3. Consider bundling picks to get an impact defender that can create turnovers and force 3rd down stops. WHether this be a high first rounder with a Derwin James like impact or a younger player who becomes available.

This is a better answer than trying to Throw names out there...

No one predicted Cowher after Noll, no one predicted Tomlin after Cowher, no one predicted McVay after Fisher, etc, etc, etc.

[lipps83]

110-64-1. 6 (possibly 7) years in the playoffs, 1 SB appearance, ZERO losing seasons. There's 30 other fan bases out there who would kill to have that kind of record.
Holy jeez... You'd think this was the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Washington Generals the way people expect this one team to win all the time.

Yeah, but being successful isn't enough sometimes for some people.

How many winning seasons have the Lions had since 2008? How many coaches? Did one of the coaching changes get the Lions to a Super Bowl? Did any of the coaching changes get them there?

How about the Browns?

Did the Jaguars win one?

What about the Bills?

Why does everyone think a new coach automatically guarantees a Super Bowl victory?

Isn't just having a good season enough anymore? Some fans would kill to see their team just be above .5000 for two years in a row.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Yeah, but being successful isn't enough sometimes for some people.

How many winning seasons have the Lions had since 2008? How many coaches? Did one of the coaching changes get the Lions to a Super Bowl? Did any of the coaching changes get them there?

How about the Browns?

Did the Jaguars win one?

What about the Bills?

Why does everyone think a new coach automatically guarantees a Super Bowl victory?

Isn't just having a good season enough anymore? Some fans would kill to see their team just be above .5000 for two years in a row. Most fans would kill for the talent we have on offense! Probably not so much the underachieving coach!

[Craic]

Most fans would kill for the talent we have on offense! Probably not so much the underachieving coach!

Because the head coach has nothing to do with drafting the talent, right?

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Because the head coach has nothing to do with drafting the talent, right? Do we really know how much involvement Tomlin has in the draft ? One thing is for sure we have a top QB that most other team fans would kill to have. Oh that's right Tomlin wasn't the coach when he was drafted!

[Steeler-in-west]

Only the mediocre to bad teams consider a winning season and playoff appearance successful.

i don’t think Belichick and Brady would be satisfied with anything less than a Lombardii, nor would Brees and the saints or rams or chiefs. We have a team with multiple HOF’s with supposedly the highest powered offense in the NFL coming into the season and now we may not even make the playoffs? Youl’d think we lost our starting QB and multiple other starters early in the season....who cares about winning percentages we have been clearly underachieving for a number of years now.

[smokin3000gt]

Do we really know how much involvement Tomlin has in the draft ? One thing is for sure we have a top QB that most other team fans would kill to have. Oh that's right Tomlin wasn't the coach when he was drafted!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/787/356/d6f.jpg

[GoSlash27]

Only the mediocre to bad teams consider a winning season and playoff appearance successful.

i don’t think Belichick and Brady would be satisfied with anything less than a Lombardii, nor would Brees and the saints or rams or chiefs.
Difference is, they have the good sense to not blow up the entire operation every time they fail.


We have a team with multiple HOF’s with supposedly the highest powered offense in the NFL coming into the season and now we may not even make the playoffs? Youl’d think we lost our starting QB and multiple other starters early in the season....who cares about winning percentages we have been clearly underachieving for a number of years now.
I don't see it that way, but even if that were the case playing "musical coaches" isn't the answer.

[pczach]

Only the mediocre to bad teams consider a winning season and playoff appearance successful.

i don’t think Belichick and Brady would be satisfied with anything less than a Lombardii, nor would Brees and the saints or rams or chiefs. We have a team with multiple HOF’s with supposedly the highest powered offense in the NFL coming into the season and now we may not even make the playoffs? Youl’d think we lost our starting QB and multiple other starters early in the season....who cares about winning percentages we have been clearly underachieving for a number of years now.



But they did lose a bunch of starters.

They lost their star LB and biggest defensive playmaker in Shazier near the end of the season last year. They are still paying his $8 million salary this year.

They traded away Bryant for smoking weed. He was a starting WR, and a field stretcher that made everyone better. By the way, that was a great move by the front office...but it still hurt.

The best RB in the NFL held out the entire year. Bell held out, so it's the equivalent of him blowing out his knee in preseason.....only worse.....because he was a huge distraction and they couldn't spend the $14.5 million on other players to help fill the roster.

That is 3 huge impact players that were taken away from this team. Two of them are among the best players in the NFL. That hit would affect any team in the NFL. To think otherwise is simply not understanding the impact that type of hit in talent can do to a team. Even if you have pretty good replacement players, the depth of the team is crushed with losses like that.

They also have $22.5 million tied up in players that didn't play one down on the field, and weren't able to spend a dime of it to help the team get better players.

I'm going to continue to say this until everyone gets it.

[FrancoLambert]

Belichick: 47%
Tomlin: 53%

Glad that’s settled.

Stats don’t lie.
Tomlin is 6% better than Belichick.
We have the best coach in the league.

[Dwinsgames]

Tomlin essentially won the Super Bowl for the Buccaneers. His secondary knew how to return INTs (akin to James Harrison’s INT return).

bah I call BS cause his secondary doesn't even know how to obtain a pick let alone return one now ...

[Dwinsgames]

Do we really know how much involvement Tomlin has in the draft ? One thing is for sure we have a top QB that most other team fans would kill to have. Oh that's right Tomlin wasn't the coach when he was drafted!

the draft process is a year long working .... Tomlin has some say but lets be honest he and the rest of the coaching staff are getting on a moving train late in its journey .....

[lipps83]

bah I call BS cause his secondary doesn't even know how to obtain a pick let alone return one now ...

It is kind of hard for his guys to get a pick when Butler leaves such huge, gaping holes that are always getting exploited consistently by the other team.

IIRC with the exception of one season the Steelers haven't been in the top 10 of turnovers at all since 2009.

[Moose]

My plan would be the following:

1. The entire defensive staff goes. I go get some one from college that has been schemeing against these spread attacks for a few seasons. Ive already tossed out Jim Leonard, I’m sure there are other names. Let them put together a young and hungry defensive staff and see what happens.

2. Hire a QB coach. I do not believe the team currently has one. This accomplishes several things. Let’s Fichtner concentrate solely on planning and tactics. Gives someone the role of getting in Ben’s ear during games and reining him in when he gets dumb and INT happy. Additionally, it provides another voice in the offense that may lead to even more innovation, efficiency, and/or balance. It also dedicates someone to the role of developing Dobbs and Rudolph. Finally, a QB coach could be a stepping stone to OC in case Fichtner leaves or flames out.

3. Consider bundling picks to get an impact defender that can create turnovers and force 3rd down stops. WHether this be a high first rounder with a Derwin James like impact or a younger player who becomes available.

This ! I'm definitely on board with firing the entire defense staff, should have been done LAST YEAR !! This team lost games because of lack of defense, lack of tackling, lack of coverage, etc.,etc.. And ST is pathetic also and needs attention. QB coach also good idea.

[steelreserve]

It is kind of hard for his guys to get a pick when Butler leaves such huge, gaping holes that are always getting exploited consistently by the other team.

This has been going on for years and nothing has been done about it. How exactly is that not the head coach's fault? Is the defense something that just occurs separately from the coach - he is forbidden from messing with it and just has to accept it as it is? He has no control over who else is running it and what they do? I had no idea that was how a football team worked. Welp, guess Tomlin's in the clear for that one.



IIRC with the exception of one season the Steelers haven't been in the top 10 of turnovers at all since 2009.

Hmm. So in other words, it's been ineffective at that for his entire tenure except for a few good years at the start. Perhaps that point bears re-reading.


since 2009.


since 2009.


since 2009.

[Shoes]

It is kind of hard for his guys to get a pick when Butler leaves such huge, gaping holes that are always getting exploited consistently by the other team.

IIRC with the exception of one season the Steelers haven't been in the top 10 of turnovers at all since 2009.


The problem is no one knows who has more say so in the defense, Tomlin or Butler? Tomlin has had his hands in this defense for some time now and there is not a peep on who is in control this year, but it seems Tomlin ran the D on GAME DAY last season. This is from last January. “[Tomlin] called many of the defensive plays from the sideline this season. He also took charge of many of the secondary meetings and those with the entire defense.”
https://steelersdepot.com/2018/01/bouchette-mike-tomlin-ran-steelers-defense-2017/

[teegre]

bah I call BS cause his secondary doesn't even know how to obtain a pick let alone return one now ...

Likewise, since the Taperiots’ pass-rush isn’t as good as that of the NYGiants in the 1990’s... then Belichick’s two rings with them the NYGiants are also ”BS”.

[Born2Steel]

The Tomlin lead Steelers of 2019 in response to these posts.....:flipoff:

[Neversatisfied]

Tomlin has lost the locker room. He is the equivalent to a 'Buddy Parent' " I'd rather my teenage kids drink alcohol in the house than at at strangers house". Tomlin had playoff success when he coached (and I use that term very loosely) players drafted and developed by the prior coaching staff. The Steelers have been a big time disappointment in the playoffs and against poor teams the last 6 to 7 seasons. The Steelers need to move on from Mike Tomlin but that wont happen until his contract expires at the end of next season, unfortunately Ben will probably retire around the same time and that will be a perfect storm for mediocrity. The Steelers organization has done a horrible job at rebuilding a once feared defense largely due to Mike Tomlins inability to coach and develop a defense capable only of consistent solid performances. It's not an option but fact that the current Steeler team is as unpredictable a group as any in the NFL, couple that with constant drama and the outcome is what you see in this 2018 squad.

[lipps83]

This has been going on for years and nothing has been done about it. How exactly is that not the head coach's fault? Is the defense something that just occurs separately from the coach - he is forbidden from messing with it and just has to accept it as it is? He has no control over who else is running it and what they do? I had no idea that was how a football team worked. Welp, guess Tomlin's in the clear for that one.

Something was done about it. How quickly we sometimes forget...

Lebeau was forced to 'move on'. Butler was his successor. Butler was NOT​ Tomlin's hire. The decision for Butler to succeed Lebeau was decided before Tomlin was even hired.

Didn't you ever wonder why from 2004-2012 Butler was never interviewed by ANYONE ELSE in the entire league for their vacant defensive coordinator positions? He already had his locked up.

[Dwinsgames]

Ive already tossed out Jim Leonard, I’m sure there are other names. Let them put together a young and hungry defensive staff and see what happens.

Jim Leonard had his chance in 1945 , he sucked and we have since moved on :wink02:

[Rotorhead]

Josh McDaniels would be my first choice to replace Tomlin

[fansince'76]

Josh McDaniels would be my first choice to replace Tomlin

Good God, no!

You live in Denver too? Did you not see that train wreck after the Broncos hired him as HC? Besides, Belichick disciples pretty much always crash and burn.

[st33lersguy]

Good God, no!

You live in Denver too? Did you not see that train wreck after the Broncos hired him as HC? Besides, Belichick disciples pretty much always crash and burn.

I think he was joking

[vader29]

1079513473493671937

[Born2Steel]

1079513473493671937

I'm getting THIS on a t-shirt. TOMORROW!

[fansince'76]

"Embrace it." :lol:

[ALLD]

That doesn't matter, all that matters is the Steelers only had 3 coaches in 45 years. Keep repeating that 5 times a day, year-round and you will win a SB.


That is turning onto the Indian rain dance.Just keep dancing until it rains.

[FrancoLambert]

That is turning onto the Indian rain dance.Just keep dancing until it rains.

:rofl2:

[Fire Goodell]

Anyone who can manage a clock in 2 minutes and can win a challenge

[Rotorhead]

He failed here because he was given GM duties also for his first HC job also, it was too much for him to handle for his first HC job.

[fansince'76]

He failed here because he was given GM duties also for his first HC job also, it was too much for him to handle for his first HC job.

Again, Belichick disciples always crash and burn.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I'm getting THIS on a t-shirt. TOMORROW! I never been on Twitter but find the OT Twits you guys post funny!

- - - Updated - - -


:rofl2: Stop it and we had more rain then Seattle this year lol.

[Shoes]

Good God, no!

You live in Denver too? Did you not see that train wreck after the Broncos hired him as HC? Besides, Belichick disciples pretty much always crash and burn.


I thought that would get your attention. :lol:

[Steeler-in-west]

Yet our running game actually got slightly better under Conner. And when he went down samuels started racking up huge yards - our running game didn’t miss a beat without Bell when we used it.

And I still remember that bears game in 2017 before Shaz got hurt where they were running all over us. So while he was important, we still had issues on D before he went down.

I don’t think the absence of these guys and Bryant caused us to blow games against the lowly raiders and broncos and tie the browns. We had plenty of firepower to certainly put the raiders, chargers and broncos away. That raiders loss was just inexcusable. I saw poor clock management, poor defensive schemes, and abandoning the running game too soon.

Noll went through a decade of inneffectiveness before he was let go, I see Tomlin on this same trend line. Bell, Bryant or shaz would not have made much of a difference.