Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

[hawaiiansteeler]

If the Steelers miss the playoffs this season, do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

Yes or No

[FrancoLambert]

No. I’ll give him another year to show marked improvement.

But, if next year is a repeat of this year, I’d vote yes.

[DesertSteel]

The fact that the same problems happen every year leads me to the conclusion that it's time for a change. The Oakland game and the "game flow" garbage was the last straw for me. He's a great leader and a poor coach. The Steelers need a great coach who offers more than bravado.

[st33lersguy]

He's wasted enough of Ben's and AB's career. He's clueless, the playing down to teams, the blown leads, the sloppiness, the drama, the unpreparedness, the blaming of the x-ray machine, and that shit about game flow. Enough is enough. It's never too early to try and find their Mike Sullivan, sure you can end up with a joke of a coach too, but it is always better to try and improve rather than stick with the same disappointment for years

[hawaiiansteeler]

for those voting yes, remember that not once has Tomlin ever had a losing season. if we fired him, Tomlin would immediately become the most sought after head coaching candidate for other NFL teams.

[st33lersguy]

for those voting yes, remember that not once has Tomlin ever had a losing season. if we fired him, Tomlin would immediately become the most sought after head coaching candidate for other NFL teams.

If a losing team with no talent and no QB desperate for a splash move gets it, he will fail at that spot and last probably 3 years

[DesertSteel]

for those voting yes, remember that not once has Tomlin ever had a losing season. if we fired him, Tomlin would immediately become the most sought after head coaching candidate for other NFL teams.
Yes and he adds to that wonderful legend again this year. When I walk by that trophy case I don't see trophies for 8-8 and 9-7.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Yes and he adds to that wonderful legend again this year. When I walk by that trophy case I don't see trophies for 8-8 and 9-7.

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/rickybobby.jpeg?quality=95&w=600

[Mach1]

for those voting yes, remember that not once has Tomlin ever had a losing season. if we fired him, Tomlin would immediately become the most sought after head coaching candidate for other NFL teams.

An 8-8 season isn't a winning season either.

[pepsyman1]

There has been too much talent on this team over the last decade to show so little for it. When this team loses, it almost always looks the same and nothing changes. Time for something else. I don't think Tomlin will ever get back to the Super Bowl

[Lady Steel]

Yes, I do think Tomlin should be fired because I'm not satisfied with mediocrity year after year and neither should anyone else. However, I do not think he will be fired.

Another team can have him. He won't do any better for them either, so he's not a threat. Take him away! Please!

- - - Updated - - -


for those voting yes, remember that not once has Tomlin ever had a losing season. if we fired him, Tomlin would immediately become the most sought after head coaching candidate for other NFL teams.


Pffft... I don't care. Not having a losing season does not equal bringing home a Lombardi, or heaven forbid, at least going deep into the playoffs. Sorry, but I've been very patient and have reached my limit with Tomlin. No more! He's dumber than a bag of hair, and I'm sick and tired of all his stupid cliches, excuses, etc. Most of us are not as stupid as Tomlin thinks we are. Fuck him!

[Steeldude]

No. I’ll give him another year to show marked improvement.

But, if next year is a repeat of this year, I’d vote yes.

That should have been said 3 years ago.

[Lady Steel]

That should have been said 3 years ago.

Agreed. I mean, just how many YEARS should we give this fool?

[Steeler-in-west]

I wanted him gone after the playoff loss to Jacksonville last year. But the FO backed him and I trust the FO’s decision. But, instead of proving me wrong he’s proven lasts years fiasco wasn’t an anomaly but a trend. We need to move on if we don’t want to be perennial underachievers

[fansince'76]

The fact that the same problems happen every year leads me to the conclusion that it's time for a change. The Oakland game and the "game flow" garbage was the last straw for me.

Pretty much where I'm at as well. Dropping the Broncos game and blowing a 16-point lead at home to the Chargers were bad enough, but the loss to the Raiders was inexcusable.


If a losing team with no talent and no QB desperate for a splash move gets it, he will fail at that spot and last probably 3 years

I'm inclined to agree. At this point, I'm wondering how much of "never had a losing season" is more a reflection of the Steelers' strength as an organization than anything Tomlin's done?

[Edman]

I said it before that the Raiders game effectively sealed Tomlin's fate for me. This guy is a great catch-phraser, but he's not a good coach in the slightest. Ben is the glue holding it together and once he retires, Tomlin will crash and burn. He cannot coach the next guy up and lead the Steelers to success.

Tomlin should be fired, but he won't be. I do believe he will get the Bruce Arians treatment however and just be uncerimoniously jettisoned once his contract is up in 2020.

[86WARD]

If he doesn’t make moves at DC and ST coach, then yes, he should be fired. He will have failed to address two major issues amongst his staff and he should in turn be held responsible for it. If he dismisses Butler and Smith and hires two competent replacements and the same problems continue, he should be fired. If things improve, then he can retain his position. But again, make no move to replace the two biggest problems on his staff, then he goes.

I’m not sure that Colbert gets a free pass either...

[BlackAndGold]

I'll say no but his seat is officially "hot"

[GBMelBlount]

No. I’ll give him another year to show marked improvement.

But, if next year is a repeat of this year, I’d vote yes.

My thoughts exactly. Upgrade the defensive coaching this year and see what happens.

Too many changes at once can create more problems than it solves.

What is Kevin Greene up to?

[Michael]

I am done defending Tomlin. If the Steelers do not sneak into the play offs this week end then the case is established for firing him on Black Monday. If they make the play offs then the question is moot. Quite frankly I think firing Tomlin is more relevant to the Steelers long term success then sneaking into the play offs this year. I think Tomlin has fooled many fans, media pundits, and most of all Steeler management. Time to move on.

[smokin3000gt]

No.. if Boz did what any decent kicker in the league does and make his kicks we're up by 3 games despite losing weapons left and right (Shazier, Bell, Bryant, and now Boz is a no-show). They're in contention with/beating strong teams (KC,NE,NO) and looking good doing it. It seems no matter what's thrown at us, they hold it together and that says a lot.

[DesertSteel]

No.. if Boz did what any decent kicker in the league does and make his kicks we're up by 3 games...
But Tomlin stands by his man. Is there no fault to be found in keeping a kicker who's losing games?? No fault for keeping Dobbs in the game when Ben was ready to go back in?? No fault for perennially losing to the worst teams in the league??

[Shoes]

If Butler gets fired Tomlin should be fired, both are knee deep in the hog pen of this defense. DK on Pittsburgh Sports had a good article the other day called "So many signs pointing to the Top" I can't imagine AJRII doing nothing at seasons end.

[smokin3000gt]

But Tomlin stands by his man. Is there no fault to be found in keeping a kicker who's losing games?? No fault for keeping Dobbs in the game when Ben was ready to go back in?? No fault for perennially losing to the worst teams in the league??

Fair point on Boz. On Dobbs I think 'ready' to go in and 'able' are two different things. I also think able was a stretch. Ben had fractured ribs so it makes sense to see what the #2 guy can do. When he sputtered Ben sucked it up and went back in but it's not like he was bright eyed and bushy tailed, ready to go in but Tomlin kept him on the bench as many make it sound. If Ben was hurt and he kept him in the game and we lost him for multiple games people would be screaming about that too. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't..

[DesertSteel]

But it was in the presser right after the game that Tomlin said he could’ve gone back in sooner but he didn’t want to disrupt the flow of the game. Everything said later was revisionist history. So regardless of facts, he revealed his coaching thought process. It was a firable thought process IMO.

[Craic]

But Tomlin stands by his man. Is there no fault to be found in keeping a kicker who's losing games?? No fault for keeping Dobbs in the game when Ben was ready to go back in?? No fault for perennially losing to the worst teams in the league??
Depends. Are there viable kickers to be found right now? Don't forget the last time they had to jump for a new kicker, we dropped a game to the Pats* because the kicker couldn't hit endzone let alone a field goal. So no, I have no problem with a coach who is trying to build and keep confidence in his kicker at least until the end of the season.

[DesertSteel]

Depends. Are there viable kickers to be found right now? Don't forget the last time they had to jump for a new kicker, we dropped a game to the Pats* because the kicker couldn't hit endzone let alone a field goal. So no, I have no problem with a coach who is trying to build and keep confidence in his kicker at least until the end of the season.
Are there viable kickers to be found right now? Where did the past few kickers come from? Kickers get signed off the street all the time. Leading the NFL in missed kicks is not the standard.

[AtlantaDan]

Not unless Tomlin refuses to significantly change his coaching staff

AJRII should tell Tomlin what Dan Rooney told Chuck Noll after the 1988 season - your coaching staff is a big reason for the on the field problems and if you do not want to make significant changes by getting rid of Butler, Porter and Danny Smith you need to move on

You also need someone to advise you on replay challenges and get your DC hire right since if there are not significant improvements you are next out the door

Problem with the Noll scenario was Noll probably should have been fired after the 1988 season rather than agreeing to the changes and providing three more seasons of mediocrity

Biggest problem with firing Tomlin, other than the Steelers being due for a bad HC hire after going 3 for 3 since 1969, is the Steelers presumably lose Munchak as well

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9g78n5wLE

[Shoes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9g78n5wLE


What a crew a rat and two weasels under the bridge. Carter the very guy that made up stories about Tomlin's half-time changes that Tomlin said he never made.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Tomlin just said we aren't playing to not lose, we are playing to win! For that I think we need to keep him for at least one more year!

[zulater]

Option 3. It doesn't matter what we think, he's not getting fired. The Steelers don't do business that way. So why get worked up over something that has zero chance of happening? Hopefully he's made to bring in a defensive coordinator from outside the building and will be told to give said coach full autonomy over the defense. If he would park his ego and allow a Gregg Williams or Ron Rivera truly run the defense he might be able to cash in one more SB win before Ben hangs them up.

[teegre]

No.. if Boz did what any decent kicker in the league does and make his kicks we're up by 3 games despite losing weapons left and right (Shazier, Bell, Bryant, and now Boz is a no-show). They're in contention with/beating strong teams (KC,NE,NO) and looking good doing it. It seems no matter what's thrown at us, they hold it together and that says a lot.

:nod:

Boz makes two kicks... that’s two more wins.

Grimble doesn’t fumble... that’s one more win.

The refs disregard false starts and/or blocks in the back... that’s another win.

The refs do not understand DPI... that’s yet another win.

SUMMATION:
That is 13 wins that were snakebitten back down to 8.


Note: The Ravens loss and the Chiefs loss are the only two true “losses” IMO, and even in the Chiefs game, Boz cost us 4 points (which would have changed the look of the fourth quarter).

[DesertSteel]

:nod:

Boz makes two kicks... that’s two more wins.

Grimble doesn’t fumble... that’s one more win.

The refs disregard false starts and/or blocks in the back... that’s another win.

The refs do not understand DPI... that’s yet another win.

SUMMATION:
That is 13 wins that were snakebitten back down to 8.


Note: The Ravens loss and the Chiefs loss are the only two true “losses” IMO, and even in the Chiefs game, Boz cost us 4 points (which would have changed the look of the fourth quarter).
But the root problem is that it shouldn’t come down to a blown call by the official or a missed kick. This team was their own worst enemy. You can’t blame +10 turnovers on anyone else but the team.

[AtlantaDan]

But the root problem is that it shouldn’t come down to a blown call by the official or a missed kick. This team was their own worst enemy. You can’t blame +10 turnovers on anyone else but the team.

Agreed - leave aside that in addition to last second losses there were very fortunate last second wins against the Bengals and Jags

After a bad break the Steelers failed to remember the first law of holes - when you are in one quit digging - Steelers kept digging this season

Denver game after Grimble screwup - get ahead 17-10 after being down 10-3. Then first bad Ben INT on third down kills drive/Conner fumble/second bad INT to end game after sketchy play calling on first & goal

Saints game after first Haden PI - giving up FG to end first half/putting Ridley in game who then fumbles/giving up 25 yards on 3rd and 20 after second Haden PI on winning drive

This team consistently has found a way to lose and has deserved its record. Screwups on a recurring basis indicate deep rooted problems

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

It's rough to beat The refs, Top team at their home and Tomlin. Steelers came close to beating all above!

[smokin3000gt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9g78n5wLE

It's hard to listen to these bobble heads talk about LB in any regard. "Pittsburgh didn't appreciate and pay the man, they under valued him :blah: :blah: :blah: "

It's not like they declined to renew his contract. It's not like they offered the dude $7M/year and dug their heals in the ground. Their offer was more than fair and far from insulting, if LB wakes up and puts his stupid pants on the Steelers can't do much about it.

[teegre]

But the root problem is that it shouldn’t come down to a blown call by the official or a missed kick. This team was their own worst enemy. You can’t blame +10 turnovers on anyone else but the team.

But, a lot of games do indeed come down to FGs. For example, the Taperiots’s first three Super Bowl victories came down to last-second game-winning FGs. FGs do matter.

People like to say that “every team gets bad calls”. True. But, when there is a disproportionate amount (Chargers game) or game-changing ones (the two DPI calls both occurring on fourth downs) it makes it extremely difficult to overcome... in a game that is generally decided by less than 7 points.

Okay, for argument’s sake, assuming that the Grimble turnover in the Broncos game was indeed due to Tomlin (as were Conner’s fumble and Ben’s INT), I will consider the Broncos game an out-&-out loss... so... 12-3.

[DesertSteel]

Okay, for argument’s sake, assuming that the Grimble turnover in the Broncos game was indeed due to Tomlin (as were Conner’s fumble and Ben’s INT), I will consider the Broncos game an out-&-out loss... so... 12-3.
Meh... you're just isolating bad plays and stating the obvious, that Tomlin didn't cause them. I was a Tomlin supporter until the past 12 months. I really don't think this team will be back in the Super Bowl as long as Tomlin is coach. If you want to isolate plays, how about the past 10 challenges Tomlin has made?

[Shoes]

It's hard to listen to these bobble heads talk about LB in any regard. "Pittsburgh didn't appreciate and pay the man, they under valued him :blah: :blah: :blah: "

It's not like they declined to renew his contract. It's not like they offered the dude $7M/year and dug their heals in the ground. Their offer was more than fair and far from insulting, if LB wakes up and puts his stupid pants on the Steelers can't do much about it.


It's amazing theses morons actually get paid for this crap!

[Michael]

It amazes me how unintelligent these two clowns are. They both have probably invested a total of 10 minutes into their analysis of what has gone wrong with the Steelers. Bell is not and was not the missing savior. Bad coaching & Boz struggles top the list of what went wrong.Conner & Samuels did a fine job. Defense must get better. Shazier was greatly missed. Drafting of defensive back has been poor for past several years. Burns is just as bad as J J.

[teegre]

Meh... you're just isolating bad plays and stating the obvious, that Tomlin didn't cause them. I was a Tomlin supporter until the past 12 months. I really don't think this team will be back in the Super Bowl as long as Tomlin is coach. If you want to isolate plays, how about the past 10 challenges Tomlin has made?

No, what I’m saying is that a few bad plays here and there can indeed change the outcome of a game.

Tomlin hasn’t had a successful challenge in over a year. Okay. If those would have been the difference in a game, that would be relevant. Were they?

[DesertSteel]

No, what I’m saying is that a few bad plays here and there can indeed change the outcome of a game.

Tomlin hasn’t had a successful challenge in over a year. Okay. If those would have been the difference in a game, that would be relevant. Were they?
Of course those botched challenges have made a difference in outcomes.

As for a few bad plays, most teams not making the playoffs can play that game of buts and ifs. Bottom line is they were 7-2-1 and have now lost 4 of 5. Tomlin has nothing but bravado and rhetoric IMO. The same problems persist year after year.

- - - Updated - - -

But I also know that no one will be fired. Not even the DC or STC.

[teegre]

Of course those botched challenges have made a difference in outcomes.

As for a few bad plays, most teams not making the playoffs can play that game of buts and ifs. Bottom line is they were 7-2-1 and have now lost 4 of 5. Tomlin has nothing but bravado and rhetoric IMO. The same problems persist year after year.

- - - Updated - - -

But I also know that no one will be fired. Not even the DC or STC.

Would they? Really. I’m asking. Because, I know exactly which miscues from this season would have changed the outcomes of games. But, not once (in my memories) did I think, “That challenge really cost us a game.”

But, can most teams really point to egregious calls like the Chargers game and/or the Saints game? The Browns certainly can, and I agree: the Browns should have one more win due to poor officiating, and the Browns should be vying for the AFC North title.

I disagree: I think that the entire defensive coaching staff gets fired. But, Yes, for some reason, Danny Smith will stay. (Seriously, WTF is up with that???)

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I don't blame Tomlin for everything. NFL didn't want us being the 1 seed last year and made damn sure that didn't happen. I think the NFL don't want us in the playoffs this year and are making damn sure that wont happen. What I don't like about Tomlin though. Even when we are overcoming the refs, Tomlin has to make some stupid call so we beat ourselves! Opps drop the mic.

[Dwinsgames]

personally I would open the door and sweep everyone not named Munch and Saxson out those doors and wouldn't look back ..

this team has stagnated , rumbled and fumbled and stumbled its way for years .... the 1 and done playoffs or narrowly missing the playoffs with a supposed Franchise QB and All world WR and very good RBs and not being able to win 1 freaking playoff game in what seems like forever and now not being able to make the playoffs with out help from the Browns ....

we can blame the defense and it would be a legit complaint , BUT all the while doing so remember the Manning led Colts they never had a def and they managed to make the playoffs and they managed to win in the playoffs we can not do either with the same basic setup .... 1st Ballot HoF QB ..1st Ballot HoF WR ( and we have a much better running game )

this SHOULD be a 10 win team year in year out just because of the talent on Offense .... give them any amount of Def whatsoever and that total should climb from there .....

No Excuse should be good enough IMO to NOT obtain 10 wins .. we shall see how ArtII feel on the subject soon enough

[EzraTank]

He's wasted enough of Ben's and AB's career. He's clueless, the playing down to teams, the blown leads, the sloppiness, the drama, the unpreparedness, the blaming of the x-ray machine, and that shit about game flow. Enough is enough. It's never too early to try and find their Mike Sullivan, sure you can end up with a joke of a coach too, but it is always better to try and improve rather than stick with the same disappointment for yearsI was about to type something but st33lersguy did it for me.

Agree 100%.

[Moose]

I voted NO. I do agree he has his times when some of his play calling is suspect to say the least, but, who else is out there ? How much of these play's are his decisions or just the lack of his player's NOT being able to perform. I do like some of his 'gutsiness' on some plays, some of which if they worked he was a genius, or if they failed...he was a ass. I'd say give him another year or two and see what happens. I'm more on the stand that the STEELER's need to go back to the OLD STEELER style of football.....defense kickin' ass !

[Dwinsgames]

I voted NO. I do agree he has his times when some of his play calling is suspect to say the least, but, who else is out there ? How much of these play's are his decisions or just the lack of his player's NOT being able to perform. I do like some of his 'gutsiness' on some plays, some of which if they worked he was a genius, or if they failed...he was a ass. I'd say give him another year or two and see what happens. I'm more on the stand that the STEELER's need to go back to the OLD STEELER style of football.....defense kickin' ass !

who else was out there when it was time for Noll to go .... would anyone have said Bill Cowher ?

who was out there when Cowher decided to go would anyone have said Mike Tomlin ?

Now it is time for Tomlin to go .....

what we know is this ... if Tomlin does go it will be a younger up and coming assistant that likely replaces him ....

perhaps a Kris Richard or a John DeFilippo

maybe they break the mold as some would like and go to the College game to find an answer then maybe a guy like Lincoln Riley becomes a factor

[DesertSteel]

Would they? Really. I’m asking. Because, I know exactly which miscues from this season would have changed the outcomes of games. But, not once (in my memories) did I think, “That challenge really cost us a game.”

But, can most teams really point to egregious calls like the Chargers game and/or the Saints game? The Browns certainly can, and I agree: the Browns should have one more win due to poor officiating, and the Browns should be vying for the AFC North title.

I disagree: I think that the entire defensive coaching staff gets fired. But, Yes, for some reason, Danny Smith will stay. (Seriously, WTF is up with that???)
Failed challenges don't just effect that one play. They take a timeout away and more importantly they remove a challenge for the ones that would get overturned. They also make him gun shy of throwing the red flag because he only has one left. I can think of several instances where that happened. However, challenges are just one area that he's bad at. It's just so obvious that it can't be overlooked.

I'm pretty sure every team gets bad calls from the refs. Unless it hurts your favorite team, it just doesn't stand out. I completely reject this conspiracy theory about the league trying to keep us out of the playoffs. Right.... keep out one of the highest rated teams on TV. Great strategy!!

The only way Tomlin fires anybody is of the Rooneys force him.

And if Tomlin went to a team that needed bravado and rhetoric (aka cheerleading), he'd thrive again. That act has just been worn out here with too many losses to bad teams.

[teegre]

Failed challenges don't just effect that one play. They take a timeout away and more importantly they remove a challenge for the ones that would get overturned. They also make him gun shy of throwing the red flag because he only has one left. I can think of several instances where that happened. However, challenges are just one area that he's bad at. It's just so obvious that it can't be overlooked.

I'm pretty sure every team gets bad calls from the refs. Unless it hurts your favorite team, it just doesn't stand out. I completely reject this conspiracy theory about the league trying to keep us out of the playoffs. Right.... keep out one of the highest rated teams on TV. Great strategy!!

The only way Tomlin fires anybody is of the Rooneys force him.

And if Tomlin went to a team that needed bravado and rhetoric (aka cheerleading), he'd thrive again. That act has just been worn out here with too many losses to bad teams.

You’re not wrong; I just do not recall a specific challenge that had me wringing my fists.

I do not think there’s a conspiracy. I do think there is a lot of inept officiating.

ARII will force him to fire his entire coaching staff. Derek Carr’s drive sealed their fates.

Tomlin’s players play play hard for him. Yes, he has his faults, but aside from Belichick, every coach has a weakness or three.

[DesertSteel]

They play hard for him because he’s a cheerleader. #nolongeratomlinsupporter

[DesertSteel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9g78n5wLE
One thing they got right. 600+ passes and you’re not going to the playoffs.

[Dwinsgames]

#1 in passing yards of of today - Big Ben

#4 in receiving yards as of today - JuJu

#9 in receiving yards as of today -A.B

#12 rushing as of today James Conner ( and that's with missing several games )

#4 in total points in the league - Pittsburgh

#3 team in NFL for TD's - Pittsburgh

YET
number 18 defense in points allowed
given up the 17th most yards via the pass ( middle of the pack )
given up the 27th most yards via the run ( top 6 in league )

so as badly as we look at this defense its not been atrocious just not up to our standards

no reason in the world good enough to have one of the league premier offenses and a middle of the road defense and not have a team in the playoffs NONE ZERO ZILCH

[Iron Steeler]

I voted yes.

Although I would fire his whole staff first to send him a message.

[DesertSteel]

#1 in passing yards of of today - Big Ben

#4 in receiving yards as of today - JuJu

#9 in receiving yards as of today -A.B

#12 rushing as of today James Conner ( and that's with missing several games )

#4 in total points in the league - Pittsburgh

#3 team in NFL for TD's - Pittsburgh

YET
number 18 defense in points allowed
given up the 17th most yards via the pass ( middle of the pack )
given up the 27th most yards via the run ( top 6 in league )

so as badly as we look at this defense its not been atrocious just not up to our standards

no reason in the world good enough to have one of the league premier offenses and a middle of the road defense and not have a team in the playoffs NONE ZERO ZILCH

The defense is 15th in points allowed and 9th in yards.

I agree.

[Renegade]

This year along with 2012, 2013, and 2009 were not all that great. Of course 9-6-1 (and possibly a division if you win) when your first running back acts like a child, your second running back gets hurt during a stretch of games that are must wins and your defense is trashy... isn't that bad. I think most coaches under these conditions would lose maybe 10 games. Tomlin had his teams in all these games. The Chargers are a better team. Almost won (This game is on Bos for an extra point miss. 17 point lead is a whole lot larger than a 16 point lead. That punt return Touchdown would have made it 24-21 Steelers instead of 23-23. The Raiders game is on Bos too.) The Saints and Patriots are better teams and the Steelers had a shock win over New England! Both games they were picked to lose. Assuming they win this week they would finish 4-1-1 in their division.. that is not that bad. Tomlin, with the exception of the first 5 years, has not had a very good group of defenders to work with.. this might fall on him... but he cannot sign players. Only the front office can do that. I like Tomlin.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

#1 in passing yards of of today - Big Ben

#4 in receiving yards as of today - JuJu

#9 in receiving yards as of today -A.B

#12 rushing as of today James Conner ( and that's with missing several games )

#4 in total points in the league - Pittsburgh

#3 team in NFL for TD's - Pittsburgh

YET
number 18 defense in points allowed
given up the 17th most yards via the pass ( middle of the pack )
given up the 27th most yards via the run ( top 6 in league )

so as badly as we look at this defense its not been atrocious just not up to our standards

no reason in the world good enough to have one of the league premier offenses and a middle of the road defense and not have a team in the playoffs NONE ZERO ZILCH

The Steelers rank #31 in team rushing, only ahead of Arizona. They rank #30 in rushing attempts.

Steelers rank #1 in Passing Attempts and are tied with Carolina for #6 in the most INT's.

So your offense passes more than anybody in the NFL, but only 2 teams in the NFL try and run it fewer than the Steelers and they throw more INT's than 25 other teams. Looks like a unbalanced Offensive scheme that cant put away leads with a run game or throws away games with costly INT's. This should be a "Do You Think Randy Fichtner Should Be Fired" thread. (aka Ben's Caddy)

[Shoes]

The Steelers rank #31 in team rushing, only ahead of Arizona. They rank #30 in rushing attempts.

Steelers rank #1 in Passing Attempts and are tied with Carolina for #6 in the most INT's.

So your offense passes more than anybody in the NFL, but only 2 teams in the NFL try and run it fewer than the Steelers and they throw more INT's than 25 other teams. Looks like a unbalanced Offensive scheme that cant put away leads with a run game or throws away games with costly INT's. This should be a "Do You Think Randy Fichtner Should Be Fired" thread. (aka Ben's Caddy)

That's what Ben wanted! :lol:

[Dwinsgames]

The Steelers rank #31 in team rushing, only ahead of Arizona. They rank #30 in rushing attempts.

Steelers rank #1 in Passing Attempts and are tied with Carolina for #6 in the most INT's.

So your offense passes more than anybody in the NFL, but only 2 teams in the NFL try and run it fewer than the Steelers and they throw more INT's than 25 other teams. Looks like a unbalanced Offensive scheme that cant put away leads with a run game or throws away games with costly INT's. This should be a "Do You Think Randy Fichtner Should Be Fired" thread. (aka Ben's Caddy)


Conner is still the #12 RB in the league for Yards regardless of how many times they have run vs pass .... and seems like many here Bitched Conner was getting the ball to much early on and was gonna wear him out .... cant please nobody might be the better name for the thread !

[smokin3000gt]

Conner is still the #12 RB in the league for Yards regardless of how many times they have run vs pass .... and seems like many here Bitched Conner was getting the ball to much early on and was gonna wear him out .... cant please nobody might be the better name for the thread !

That would be a better name for steeler fans as a whole. There is no gray area, only black and white. If a RB is getting the ball we're 'running his wheels off, save him!', if we're throwing the ball we're 'not utilizing him'. If we're running the ball fans are pissed that we're not using our weapons (Ben/AB/JJS). If we're throwing the ball then we're not running it enough. Boz is in a slump and it seemed like everyone wanted to wait it out with him and that he'll pull through it. Now that we might not make post season Tomlin is the fool for keeping him. We were on a 6 game win streak and Tomlin is a great coach finally getting his dues. We lose a few and now we need to gut the entire team/front office/coaching staff. I'm starting to think some fans will never be happy and would find things to bitch about even with a SB win.

[Steeldude]

The Steelers could lose their next 20 seasons and fans here will still say keep Tomlin.

[FrancoLambert]

After watching James Harrison give his take on this season and the “why” behind it, he comes across as an objective observer with a strong opinion more than an angry ex-employee with an axe to grind.

I know he wouldn’t resist an opportunity to throw Tomlin under the bus, but his breakdown of Tomlin’s record rings true.

[Born2Steel]

The Steelers could lose their next 20 seasons and fans here will still say keep Tomlin.

20 seasons?

[DesertSteel]

This whole Steelers don’t fire coaches thing has become the proverbial tail wagging the dog.

[Dwinsgames]

This whole Steelers don’t fire coaches thing has become the proverbial tail wagging the dog.


Noll was forced out , Lebeau was forced out , Arains was forced out , lots of guys were fired ( coordinators ) some have went on to be HC elsewhere ....

[hawaiiansteeler]

That would be a better name for steeler fans as a whole. There is no gray area, only black and GOLD.

there, fixed that for ya...:tt02:

[DesertSteel]

My biggest complaint on Tomlin this year is him allowing the pass-heavy attack of 67.24%, which lead the NFL. For the record, 9 out of the 12 playoff teams (as it stands now) are in the bottom half of those rankings. As a comparison, New Orleans is 29th at 53.70%. Last year when we were 13-3, we passed 59.70% (11th). It was clear that when they were on the winning streak, they were running the ball, but then he allowed the OC to go right back to throwing it all over the place (including to the other team) and we lose 4 of 5. Amazingly, the one game we won, our rushing attack was strong. It doesn't take a genius...

[Mojouw]

My biggest complaint on Tomlin this year is him allowing the pass-heavy attack of 67.24%, which lead the NFL. For the record, 9 out of the 12 playoff teams (as it stands now) are in the bottom half of those rankings. As a comparison, New Orleans is 29th at 53.70%. Last year when we were 13-3, we passed 59.70% (11th). It was clear that when they were on the winning streak, they were running the ball, but then he allowed the OC to go right back to throwing it all over the place (including to the other team) and we lose 4 of 5. Amazingly, the one game we won, our rushing attack was strong. It doesn't take a genius...

You realize you have the answer to why those stats are they way they are right in your post. Running attempts do not cause winning, they correlate with it. If you are winning, you get to run the ball. Against the Steelers, because they were not winning, the Saints didn’t rush the ball all that much. So when the Steelers are not winning the game, they are not rushing the ball.

You pass to get the lead and run to keep it in the NFL. It is something that has been taking place over the last 15 years or so and is turning over the conventional wisdom that running is the key to succcess.

https://thepowerrank.com/2018/09/24/the-surprising-truth-about-passing-and-rushing-in-the-nfl/

However, the insignificance of rushing in the NFL might surprise you.
From 1997 through 2017, only 57.5% of playoff teams (145 of 252) had a positive team rush efficiency. The visual of rush efficiency for playoff teams shows a random scatter of points with both positive and negative values. A strong run game or stout rush defense has little effect in helping an NFL team win enough games to make the playoffs.

[DesertSteel]

You realize you have the answer to why those stats are they way they are right in your post. Running attempts do not cause winning, they correlate with it. If you are winning, you get to run the ball. Against the Steelers, because they were not winning, the Saints didn’t rush the ball all that much. So when the Steelers are not winning the game, they are not rushing the ball.

You pass to get the lead and run to keep it in the NFL. It is something that has been taking place over the last 15 years or so and is turning over the conventional wisdom that running is the key to succcess.

https://thepowerrank.com/2018/09/24/the-surprising-truth-about-passing-and-rushing-in-the-nfl/

However, the insignificance of rushing in the NFL might surprise you.
From 1997 through 2017, only 57.5% of playoff teams (145 of 252) had a positive team rush efficiency. The visual of rush efficiency for playoff teams shows a random scatter of points with both positive and negative values. A strong run game or stout rush defense has little effect in helping an NFL team win enough games to make the playoffs.
I understand the passing because you're playing from behind, but I actually watched the games. They never committed to the run in the beginning and often continued to fling it when they had the lead. So, I'm not buying your one-size-fits-all answer to the arithmetic.

[AtlantaDan]

So when the Steelers are not winning the game, they are not rushing the ball.

IMO the focus on the apparent aversion to the run was not just the % but focusing on not rushing when they have first and goal inside the 5. Sometimes that worked out (Oakland) - sometimes not (Denver)

But damned if you do damned if you don't I suppose

1076993016429195265

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

You realize you have the answer to why those stats are they way they are right in your post. Running attempts do not cause winning, they correlate with it. If you are winning, you get to run the ball. Against the Steelers, because they were not winning, the Saints didn’t rush the ball all that much. So when the Steelers are not winning the game, they are not rushing the ball.

You pass to get the lead and run to keep it in the NFL. It is something that has been taking place over the last 15 years or so and is turning over the conventional wisdom that running is the key to succcess.

.

I have to disagree. Just look at the Ravens game last week and they ran it 20 times in the first half and 15 times in the second half. They beat the Chargers teams that the Steelers could not. I think you look at what Seattle has done this year with the run game and it also shows that its an important part of playing winning football games, not just holding onto a lead.

I don't think any NFL OC goes into the game thinking they are going to pass in the first half until they get a lead and then think of running the football. (Maybe Fichtner does) But, I think they go in with a gameplan of mixing pass and run to best gain yardage and score. Once a pattern or strength has been established, they call the game according to what is working.

Steelers are one of the most imbalanced teams in the nfl from a pass-run standpoint. They don't try and establish the run that last 6 weeks, they don't let the O linemen be aggressive in run blocking and it has resulted in giving away a sizeable lead and likely the AFC North title and a playoff berth. I think it was week 12 that an NFL commentator pointed to as the time the Steelers stopped trying to run the football and we all know the games they lost during that timeframe.

I honestly would not be surprised if Ownership gives input on why the Steelers OC should be calling a more balanced game, or even advises it would be best if he moves on.

[Mojouw]

I dunno. I watch the games too. I watch several other NFL games over the course of the season and maybe I read too much into the posts around here. But I think folks are describing an offense that just runs the ball to run the ball because reasons/philosophy and other than the Titans and Jaguars, I don’t see anyone doing that in the actual NFL.

My only requirement for an offense is that it is efficient, converts majority of 3rd downs, and scores TDS in the red zones. For the bulk of the season, the team did that and did that well. Balance or whatever is pretty far down the list for me on the list of things to be concerned about.

I honestly believe that it wasn’t a lack of running plays that caused the losses. It was not converting 3rd downs, prolonging drives, and scoring points. Combine that with turning the ball over and not stopping the other team — that is the recipe for losses.

Hey, but I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time or the last time. But it is interesting to talk about and I don’t mean to come across (although I acknowledge that I often do!) that I have it all figured out. I just try to present my line of thinking and why I do or don’t worry about an individual aspect.

[Born2Steel]

I dunno. I watch the games too. I watch several other NFL games over the course of the season and maybe I read too much into the posts around here. But I think folks are describing an offense that just runs the ball to run the ball because reasons/philosophy and other than the Titans and Jaguars, I don’t see anyone doing that in the actual NFL.

My only requirement for an offense is that it is efficient, converts majority of 3rd downs, and scores TDS in the red zones. For the bulk of the season, the team did that and did that well. Balance or whatever is pretty far down the list for me on the list of things to be concerned about.

I honestly believe that it wasn’t a lack of running plays that caused the losses. It was not converting 3rd downs, prolonging drives, and scoring points. Combine that with turning the ball over and not stopping the other team — that is the recipe for losses.

Hey, but I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time or the last time. But it is interesting to talk about and I don’t mean to come across (although I acknowledge that I often do!) that I have it all figured out. I just try to present my line of thinking and why I do or don’t worry about an individual aspect.

I can agree with this pretty much to the word. Yet I do have concerns with this offense in the 4th quarter. Other than the Jax game, this offense either 'turtled' or committed TOs or simply did not produce, and the other guys did. To my view this offense lost multiple games for us in the 4th quarter.

As for the other 3 quarters the offense ran fairly efficiently and looked unstoppable at times. I'm not getting into the run vs pass debate for the same reasons you posted. AND there will ALWAYS be play calls we fans will second guess. But for the most part the offense was what they needed to be.

[pczach]

I have to disagree. Just look at the Ravens game last week and they ran it 20 times in the first half and 15 times in the second half. They beat the Chargers teams that the Steelers could not. I think you look at what Seattle has done this year with the run game and it also shows that its an important part of playing winning football games, not just holding onto a lead.

I don't think any NFL OC goes into the game thinking they are going to pass in the first half until they get a lead and then think of running the football. (Maybe Fichtner does) But, I think they go in with a gameplan of mixing pass and run to best gain yardage and score. Once a pattern or strength has been established, they call the game according to what is working.

Steelers are one of the most imbalanced teams in the nfl from a pass-run standpoint. They don't try and establish the run that last 6 weeks, they don't let the O linemen be aggressive in run blocking and it has resulted in giving away a sizeable lead and likely the AFC North title and a playoff berth. I think it was week 12 that an NFL commentator pointed to as the time the Steelers stopped trying to run the football and we all know the games they lost during that timeframe.

I honestly would not be surprised if Ownership gives input on why the Steelers OC should be calling a more balanced game, or even advises it would be best if he moves on.



I understand what you're saying, but using the Ravens as an example is not apples to apples. They are a team with a running quarterback that is challenged in his ability to throw the football.

Lamar Jackson had 13 of those carries for 39 yards which means that non-quarterbacks only had 22 rushes. On the season, Lamar Jackson has 127 rushing attempts for 605 yards. He has 146 pass attempts and 85 completions for 1022 yards.

Also, running out of necessity because you can't throw the ball isn't really a fair comparison. The Raven's defense is also far better than the Steelers defense has been. It fits what they are trying to do based on the talent they have on the team and particularly the quarterback they have on the field.

I do agree that the Steelers didn't run the ball enough times or effectively enough when Conner started to slow down later in the season. However, I really believe they were making a conscious effort to not wear down Conner because they didn't trust the depth behind him or that he was banged up. That's where the loss of Bell was huge this year. Samuels did prove that he has some ability, but Ridley is a fumble waiting to happen. Again, the dilemma of the Bell hold out reared its ugly head late in the year by exposing the lack of depth at the position. You can say that a guy like Ridley shouldn't be on the roster. If you believe that....that is on Tomlin for keeping one of his pet players that he knows has ball security issues. But it's hard to blame a coach too much when the third and fourth string RB's are carrying the load and what's behind them is NFL debris.

Again, I agree that they should have committed to the run a little more. However, the Steelers had 18 rushes for 65 yards total. Ben had 2 rushes for 4 yards....so non-quarterbacks had 16 carries for 61 yards.

The Ravens non-quarterbacks had 22 carries for 120 yards.

That's a huge difference in production as the Ravens got nearly twice the yards with only 6 more carries.

I just think a bunch of factors have added up to the team having difficulty running the football.

[st33lersguy]

Keeping butler after this year following the eifert comments is itself a fireable offense

[hawaiiansteeler]

Keeping butler after this year following the eifert comments is itself a fireable offense

what are you talking about, Butler is 100% correct. I guarantee that the Steelers will not intercept or even break up one pass thrown in Eifert's direction this Sunday! :wink02:

[Mojouw]

Another variable to consider. Many are speculating that 8 coaches could get canned. That means you may end up scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I mean multiple reports have it that Jim Caldwell is assembling a staff.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I understand what you're saying, but using the Ravens as an example is not apples to apples. They are a team with a running quarterback that is challenged in his ability to throw the football.

Lamar Jackson had 13 of those carries for 39 yards which means that non-quarterbacks only had 22 rushes. On the season, Lamar Jackson has 127 rushing attempts for 605 yards. He has 146 pass attempts and 85 completions for 1022 yards.

Also, running out of necessity because you can't throw the ball isn't really a fair comparison. The Raven's defense is also far better than the Steelers defense has been. It fits what they are trying to do based on the talent they have on the team and particularly the quarterback they have on the field.

I do agree that the Steelers didn't run the ball enough times or effectively enough when Conner started to slow down later in the season. However, I really believe they were making a conscious effort to not wear down Conner because they didn't trust the depth behind him or that he was banged up. That's where the loss of Bell was huge this year. Samuels did prove that he has some ability, but Ridley is a fumble waiting to happen. Again, the dilemma of the Bell hold out reared its ugly head late in the year by exposing the lack of depth at the position. You can say that a guy like Ridley shouldn't be on the roster. If you believe that....that is on Tomlin for keeping one of his pet players that he knows has ball security issues. But it's hard to blame a coach too much when the third and fourth string RB's are carrying the load and what's behind them is NFL debris.

Again, I agree that they should have committed to the run a little more. However, the Steelers had 18 rushes for 65 yards total. Ben had 2 rushes for 4 yards....so non-quarterbacks had 16 carries for 61 yards.

The Ravens non-quarterbacks had 22 carries for 120 yards.

That's a huge difference in production as the Ravens got nearly twice the yards with only 6 more carries.

I just think a bunch of factors have added up to the team having difficulty running the football.

Yes, I understand that a running QB like Jackson isn't the norm in the NFL and as you point out, the Ravens still gained 120 yards on 22 carries last week from RB's other than Lamar Jackson. Similarly, the Seahawks have managed to run the football effectively and put themselves in a playoff position with good QB play and a solid running game. If you want to compare the Ravens with Flacco, then look at the Steelers game vs them, where the Ravens won by running the football 30 times and the Steelers something like 11 rushes(1 was Ben).

I can only think of Marshall Yanda and maybe Sweezy as solid O linemen on either the Seahawks or Ravens, yet they manage to run the football effectively with a bunch of RB's that I would not consider marquee players. The Steelers have 3 Pro Bowl Offensive Linemen and yet they manage to have the 3rd worst amount of rushing attempts and the 2nd worse rushing offense in the NFL??? Depth at the RB position means nothing, when you have one of the best Offensive Lines in the NFL. You can plug anybody in there and be productive(Samuels, Ridley, CJ Anderson, etc).

Fact is that the Steelers Offense is the most imbalanced in the NFL and Randy Fichtner could have playcalled the team to wins vs the Broncos and Chargers by running the football more than he did. I'm not saying a run heavy offense, but I bet Mike Munchak is wishing that his guys got more work in the run game than they have the last 5-6 weeks.

[Shoes]

I guess AJRII will have to make another public statement about running the ball more as he did a few years ago.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2010/01/15/Rooney-wants-Steelers-to-run-the-ball-more/stories/201001150244


"I don't think we're in a blow-it-up, start-over mode," Rooney said. :chuckle: wonder if he still feels that way?



I believe the Steelers are running the ball less now than in 2009 (42.2%) and if I'm correct we are at 32.76% now?


https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-play-pct

[st33lersguy]

what are you talking about, Butler is 100% correct. I guarantee that the Steelers will not intercept or even break up one pass thrown in Eifert's direction this Sunday! :wink02:

LOL

[NCSteeler]

for those voting yes, remember that not once has Tomlin ever had a losing season. if we fired him, Tomlin would immediately become the most sought after head coaching candidate for other NFL teams.John fox was once fired and the most sought after HC too

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[hawaiiansteeler]

John fox was once fired and the most sought after HC too

so was Bill Belicheat...

[NCSteeler]

#1 in passing yards of of today - Big Ben

#4 in receiving yards as of today - JuJu

#9 in receiving yards as of today -A.B

#12 rushing as of today James Conner ( and that's with missing several games )

#4 in total points in the league - Pittsburgh

#3 team in NFL for TD's - Pittsburgh

YET
number 18 defense in points allowed
given up the 17th most yards via the pass ( middle of the pack )
given up the 27th most yards via the run ( top 6 in league )

so as badly as we look at this defense its not been atrocious just not up to our standards

no reason in the world good enough to have one of the league premier offenses and a middle of the road defense and not have a team in the playoffs NONE ZERO ZILCHQFT

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[NCSteeler]

so was Bill Belicheat...I don't remembered people clamoring to get cheater but I could be wrong. All the pundits said fox would be hired in days and it was less than that. Twice I think. And he sucked

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[Born2Steel]

I don't remembered people clamoring to get cheater but I could be wrong. All the pundits said fox would be hired in days and it was less than that. Twice I think. And he sucked

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John Fox coached 2 SBs. One for the Panthers and one for the Broncos. His defenses were usually ranked in the top 10, even on his terrible Bears teams. Fox is a very good coach. He just wasn't successful in Chicago. Don't be surprised if you hear his name mentioned again this off season as teams fire and hire coaches.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I don't remembered people clamoring to get cheater but I could be wrong. All the pundits said fox would be hired in days and it was less than that. Twice I think. And he sucked

It is what it is, obviously John Fox lives in his fears above the neck and doesn't utilize teachable moments and learning experiences. Tomlin is not in the business of making excuses, the standard is the standard. Such is life of winning games in the National Football League, that's how we measure success and we're excited about that.

[NCSteeler]

John Fox coached 2 SBs. One for the Panthers and one for the Broncos. His defenses were usually ranked in the top 10, even on his terrible Bears teams. Fox is a very good coach. He just wasn't successful in Chicago. Don't be surprised if you hear his name mentioned again this off season as teams fire and hire coaches.2 losers one really bad. Manning carried fox in Denver. Fox did decent work with Panthers but he wore out . I don't see Tomlin doing anything after Steelers.

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[NCSteeler]

It is what it is, obviously John Fox lives in his fears above the neck and doesn't utilize teachable moments and learning experiences. Tomlin is not in the business of making excuses, the standard is the standard. Such is life of winning games in the National Football League, that's how we measure success and we're excited about that.This is actually quite correct as I remember it. Fox was famous in the Carolinas for making lousy in game decisions and he carried that to Denver.

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[Born2Steel]

2 losers one really bad. Manning carried fox in Denver. Fox did decent work with Panthers but he wore out . I don't see Tomlin doing anything after Steelers.

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I guess that depends on how long Tomlin stays with the Steelers.

[NCSteeler]

I guess that depends on how long Tomlin stays with the Steelers.I honestly give him one more year to change up the DC and ST staff and then even the Rooney's tire of being has been. Wasting Ben's final years. Spending five years rebuilding. I don't have high hopes at this point. Maybe if they change things up.

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[Born2Steel]

6 losses by a total of 33 points and fans on here want to blow it up and start all over? I'm glad most of you work for a living like me. I would hate to have you all making the decisions.

[fansince'76]

It is what it is, obviously John Fox lives in his fears above the neck and doesn't utilize teachable moments and learning experiences. Tomlin is not in the business of making excuses, the standard is the standard. Such is life of winning games in the National Football League, that's how we measure success and we're excited about that.

:tomlinism: :chuckle:

[Craic]

I honestly give him one more year to change up the DC and ST staff and then even the Rooney's tire of being has been. Wasting Ben's final years. Spending five years rebuilding. I don't have high hopes at this point. Maybe if they change things up.

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What? What five years did they spend rebuilding? They went to the playoffs in 2011, and then missed the playoffs for two years. And, those two years of rebuilding was the front-office's decision. ARII specifically said they put themselves in cap-hell because they wanted to extend the SB window of the 2005-10 SB players.

As to the rest of it, I can agree with most of what you said. Butler should be gone. Fichtner called some very good games. He called some not so good games. I think he stays. I sorely hope we are looking for a ST coordinator and a D coordinator.

[fansince'76]

Fichtner called some very good games. He called some not so good games. I think he stays.

Agreed. If Haley got 6 years, Fichtner should get at LEAST 3.

[DesertSteel]

Agreed. If Haley got 6 years, Fichtner should get at LEAST 3.
I don't know about 3, but at least 2. After he hears from Rooney about his 32% run ratio, I think he'll make some adjustments.

[Dwinsgames]

I don't know about 3, but at least 2. After he hears from Rooney about his 32% run ratio, I think he'll make some adjustments.

if we do not see a clean sweep of the staff , he may not hear much about the ratio , because when you are a shitty football team you are playing from behind most times late in games kind of forced to be one dimensional ...

I just can not fathom continuing steering the ship the same course when we know the outcome all to often.......

failed 2 make playoffs / failed to win division crown / 1 and done in the playoffs when we do make it .......

the system is broken ... number 1 QB in the league for passing yards ... #4 WR and #9 wr ..top 5 in scoring #12 RB ( even though he missed several games and was not highly utilized ) and a middle of the road defense statistically and not make the playoffs ???/ are you freaking kidding me ????

I mean come on man !!!

[pczach]

Yes, I understand that a running QB like Jackson isn't the norm in the NFL and as you point out, the Ravens still gained 120 yards on 22 carries last week from RB's other than Lamar Jackson. Similarly, the Seahawks have managed to run the football effectively and put themselves in a playoff position with good QB play and a solid running game. If you want to compare the Ravens with Flacco, then look at the Steelers game vs them, where the Ravens won by running the football 30 times and the Steelers something like 11 rushes(1 was Ben).

I can only think of Marshall Yanda and maybe Sweezy as solid O linemen on either the Seahawks or Ravens, yet they manage to run the football effectively with a bunch of RB's that I would not consider marquee players. The Steelers have 3 Pro Bowl Offensive Linemen and yet they manage to have the 3rd worst amount of rushing attempts and the 2nd worse rushing offense in the NFL??? Depth at the RB position means nothing, when you have one of the best Offensive Lines in the NFL. You can plug anybody in there and be productive(Samuels, Ridley, CJ Anderson, etc).

Fact is that the Steelers Offense is the most imbalanced in the NFL and Randy Fichtner could have playcalled the team to wins vs the Broncos and Chargers by running the football more than he did. I'm not saying a run heavy offense, but I bet Mike Munchak is wishing that his guys got more work in the run game than they have the last 5-6 weeks.




I'm not disagreeing with you about most of what you said. I'm simply pointing out that the Ravens can play that game because they have a running quarterback, a better defense ,and their line apparently does a better job run blocking than the Steelers OL does in power formations. I think the quality of the RBs does matter. Any back can still be pretty successful if the OL blocks well. But I think the play of the OL has been exaggerated. They are terrific in pass protection, but this offensive line hasn't been able to line up and convert in the running game on short yardage plays for years now. They lose at the point of attack. They have a very difficult time running the ball into the end zone, and they have for some time. Some of that is play calling and formations IMO, but they almost never convert when they are called upon to get the job done. It is obvious to anyone that watches them play.

Do I think that they would become better if they were to make it a point of emphasis? Yes I do...and I think the OC and the head coach have not committed enough to the running game at times....particularly at the end of the season. I do think that something happened to change the way they did things late in the year. Conner showed he could do almost everything Bell could do, but he must have been hurt because he became ineffective. Once Conner was injured, it changed the way they could attack teams. The other backs aren't capable of that.

Samuels is talented in the passing game, and he has shown that he can run in space. I still am not convinced he's a guy that can make a living between the tackles. He has much more to learn and needs to play stronger. He also struggles in pass protection.

Ridley is a fumble waiting to happen, and can't be leaned on to produce without risking turnovers. Everyone talks about Ben's turnovers being horrible, yet they can't see a guy like Ridley and his fumbling problems as an issue. He fumbles....a lot. You can't just put him back there and give him lots of snaps.

The entire situation is a combination of everything I list above. It doesn't mean the offensive line is terrible. Obviously they are not. The do need to improve a drive blocking in short yardage situations in tight formations...period. If there is nowhere to go, it doesn't matter who the RB is. The team needs to figure it out, or change the way they attack defenses in the running game in short yardage situations. They may need to spread the field more to get more space to operate. That, again, is something the coaches should have figured out by now.

I've been saying this a lot lately. Next year is the year that the team should be great. It will answer all the questions.

Bell will almost certainly be gone. The team will have the offseason to address the RB position. They should have the necessary depth at the position, and gives a guy like Samuels a full offseason to prepare his body for what is required of him and to work on his deficiencies. Ridley should be gone. That should answer whether the running game is going to become a bigger factor in this offense going forward. It will also answer the questions about the offensive line's run blocking abilities, particularly in short yardage. It will also tell us what Tomlin and Fichtner are going to do philosophically on the offensive side of the ball.

They will also have the money that was slotted to Bell that they weren't able to use to improve the roster. They had $14.5 million in cap space that they didn't use to get players that could have helped the team this year. That money rolls over to next year.

The WR position should be stronger next year as well. AB and JuJu are studs, Rogers is back healthy, and Washington will be in his second year and should be better while giving Ben a solid, reliable weapon to exploit with the coverages rolling to AB and JuJu.

They have a draft and a full offseason to make trades and bolster the team defensively as well as addressing any team deficiencies.

The coaches will not have any excuses. I believe it will give the team all the information they need to make decisions on how they move forward and who they do that with.

All will be revealed and the team will either have great success and will demonstrate that they have what they need from a coaching standpoint, or they will struggle and know that it is time to move in a different direction.

This is a long winded answer when we were just discussing the running game, but I think there were so many factors this year that contributed to things unravelling at times that I wanted to address the entire situation in this thread.

For the record, I'm fine if Butler is let go. I think there are schematic weaknesses in the way he handles the defense and attacks offenses. He also doesn't always use proper personnel in situational football.

The coach has some pet players on the team like DHB, Ridley, and Matakevich that don't produce much. That needs to change.

I think next year is THE year that gives us the answers to all the questions.

[DesertSteel]

if we do not see a clean sweep of the staff , he may not hear much about the ratio , because when you are a shitty football team you are playing from behind most times late in games kind of forced to be one dimensional ...

I just can not fathom continuing steering the ship the same course when we know the outcome all to often.......

failed 2 make playoffs / failed to win division crown / 1 and done in the playoffs when we do make it .......

the system is broken ... number 1 QB in the league for passing yards ... #4 WR and #9 wr ..top 5 in scoring #12 RB ( even though he missed several games and was not highly utilized ) and a middle of the road defense statistically and not make the playoffs ???/ are you freaking kidding me ????

I mean come on man !!!
As someone else posted, our 6 losses are by a total of 33 points. Our run percentage is not from playing from behind.

[GoSlash27]

6 losses by a total of 33 points and fans on here want to blow it up and start all over? I'm glad most of you work for a living like me. I would hate to have you all making the decisions.

This, about a thousand times.
Football is one of those curious subjects where everyone who weighs in imagines themselves to be experts, even though there's only like 32 people *actually* qualified to speak on the subject.

All of us on this forum would do well to keep that in mind: You don't know better than the FO. You're just like me: Just another rando on the internet with a keyboard and an opinion. If only we could all just learn our proper place in the general scheme of things... :ranger:

[DesertSteel]

This, about a thousand times.
Football is one of those curious subjects where everyone who weighs in imagines themselves to be experts, even though there's only like 32 people *actually* qualified to speak on the subject.

All of us on this forum would do well to keep that in mind: You don't know better than the FO. You're just like me: Just another rando on the internet with a keyboard and an opinion. If only we could all just learn our proper place in the general scheme of things... :ranger:
All that said, what about Keith Butler? Keep him too?

[Dwinsgames]

As someone else posted, our 6 losses are by a total of 33 points. Our run percentage is not from playing from behind.

when you lose 7 football games and tied in another .... you were playing from behind late in games a significant part of the time

[GoSlash27]

All that said, what about Keith Butler? Keep him too?

I don't make that determination, I leave it to the professionals ;)
I sit tf down, stfu, and wave my towel in support of my team. I trust our FO to make the right call AFA who gets kept or fired. They have a more complete picture, make their decisions dispassionately, and are paid to make these decisions for a living.

[teegre]

I don't remembered people clamoring to get cheater but I could be wrong.

Belichick was the Jets head coach. Then, Parcells suddenly quit... and likewise, Belichick quit the Jets job, and went to the Taperiots.

The Jets were not happy, and the Taperiots had to pay draft picks to the Jets.

SUMMATION:
I’m not sure that I’d call it clamoring, but the Taperiots had to “pay” in order to get Belichick.

[Dwinsgames]

1079539335530274816

[st33lersguy]

1079539335530274816

Agreed

- - - Updated - - -

That god awful performance should be the end of Tomlin. What was that? That certainly wasn't football that was played

[Born2Steel]

Wake me when the poll gets to around 50,000 votes.

[smokin3000gt]

Good news everyone! Dirk Koetter is available now from the Bucs. 19-29 record for his career but surely he's not a cheerleader so let's bring him in

[vasteeler]

Good news everyone! Dirk Koetter is available now from the Bucs. 19-29 record for his career but surely he's not a cheerleader so let's bring him in

Todd Bowles too!!

[Dwinsgames]

Todd Bowles too!!

Bowles won't be out of work long , someone will snatch him up to run their defense he is a top notch DC

[Shoes]

Bowles won't be out of work long , someone will snatch him up to run their defense he is a top notch DC


well if he is we better grab him.

[vasteeler]

Bowles won't be out of work long , someone will snatch him up to run their defense he is a top notch DC

Agreed

[DesertSteel]

There will be no changes to the Steelers coaching staff. Another successful non-losing campaign (since that’s what we’re counting).

[ALLD]

Tomlin should have been fired after last season.

[Craic]

There will be no changes to the Steelers coaching staff. Another successful non-losing campaign (since that’s what we’re counting).

Wait, nonlosing = winning. Why is it bad to count that?

[DesertSteel]

I don't make that determination, I leave it to the professionals ;)
I sit tf down, stfu, and wave my towel in support of my team. I trust our FO to make the right call AFA who gets kept or fired. They have a more complete picture, make their decisions dispassionately, and are paid to make these decisions for a living.
Are you the message board police to remind people that they’re not allowed to have an opinion? Just wave our towels? I think we all realize we don’t have a say. We are sharing opinions. You can’t answer a simple question if you’d retain Butler? Geez...

[j-d-s]

for those voting yes, remember that not once has Tomlin ever had a losing season. if we fired him, Tomlin would immediately become the most sought after head coaching candidate for other NFL teams.

I really don't care. He won the Super Bowl ten years ago and after that never again, and that's the only thing that counts.

Plus, certain habits like playing down to competition just don't go away and that can be pinned on him personally.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I really don't care. He won the Super Bowl ten years ago and after that never again, and that's the only thing that counts.



neither have 3/4 of other NFL teams...

[Lady Steel]

Tomlin should have been fired after last season.

:nod:

[Dwinsgames]

another testament to the state of the team and its locker room under Tomlins watch

1079846208615649282

[steelreserve]

This, about a thousand times.
Football is one of those curious subjects where everyone who weighs in imagines themselves to be experts, even though there's only like 32 people *actually* qualified to speak on the subject.

All of us on this forum would do well to keep that in mind: You don't know better than the FO. You're just like me: Just another rando on the internet with a keyboard and an opinion. If only we could all just learn our proper place in the general scheme of things... :ranger:

I figured you were being sarcastic, but based on some of your other posts, it doesn't look like it. Yikes.

Well, guess we'd better shut down the forum. Since the only valid idea is to agree with the front office, what is there to talk about? After all, they're the only ones qualified to have an opinion, so nobody else should have one. Hey, by that logic, none of us understand the inner workings of government, only the career politicians do, so there's no reason we should have an opinion about it and no one should be allowed to vote.

On the other hand, I can think of many, many, many, many, many, many, many times when I have been right about something and the front office has been miserably, unquestionably wrong. Many. Not to mention that if nothing else, out of the 32 sacrosanct individuals in this world who are worthy of having an opinion about football, some of them do better than others. How is that possible? I thought their ideas were all beyond reproach! If the other head coaching football deities are doing better than ours, how is that? Are they using different ideas? Should we be using some of them? No, this one singular approach is beyond question, sit down and shut up.

Like, I may not be an architect, but I'm pretty sure I could tell you if the roof on your house was collapsing, and suggest some general ideas for fixing it that would be entirely correct. Same principle here. Perhaps none of us could run a practice or scout out 400 draft prospects in depth, but there is plenty of macro shit on display for everyone to see, and there is no reason not to have an opinion on it.

I mean, YOU can avoid having an opinion on it if you want, but fuck off if you think anyone else can't.

[86WARD]

I figured you were being sarcastic, but based on some of your other posts, it doesn't look like it. Yikes.

Well, guess we'd better shut down the forum. Since the only valid idea is to agree with the front office, what is there to talk about? After all, they're the only ones qualified to have an opinion, so nobody else should have one. Hey, by that logic, none of us understand the inner workings of government, only the career politicians do, so there's no reason we should have an opinion about it and no one should be allowed to vote.

On the other hand, I can think of many, many, many, many, many, many, many times when I have been right about something and the front office has been miserably, unquestionably wrong. Many. Not to mention that if nothing else, out of the 32 sacrosanct individuals in this world who are worthy of having an opinion about football, some of them do better than others. How is that possible? I thought their ideas were all beyond reproach! If the other head coaching football deities are doing better than oura, how is that? Are they using different ideas? Should we be using some of them? No, this one approach is beyond question.

Like, I may not be an architect, but I'm pretty sure I could tell you if the roof on your house was collapsing, and suggest some general ideas for fixing it that would be entirely correct. Same principle here. Perhaps none of us could run a practice or scout out 400 draft prospects in depth, but there is plenty of macro shit on display for everyone to see, and there is no reason not to have an opinion on it.

I mean, YOU can avoid having an opinion on it if you want, but fuck off if you think anyone else can't.

If the AB fiasco is true, I. Leaning more towards Tomlin is the problem and he may need to take a hike...

[cubanstogie]

If the AB fiasco is true, I. Leaning more towards Tomlin is the problem and he may need to take a hike...
I don't know what to think. Tomlin benches AB with playoffs on the line is a ballsy move. AB had to be in the wrong. Thats a coaches job, I say AB is held accountable, Tomlin enforces rules. Now I know most fans don't give a shit as long as a player produces but isn't Tomlin setting a precedence there. Imaging if Steelers lost and the Ravens had lost what the fan base would have said. Not fair to his teammates. The story is bigger than this one event, so maybe Tomlin deserves some blame but he held his 2nd best player accountable, I don't fault him for that.

[Born2Steel]

Tell you what I would do. I'd hire that Huge Axing guy. The people in Ohio can't seem to get enough of him. They love that guy. He's like the second coming of Marv and Louis over there. Know who's another good Ohio boy? That Urban Meyer. He had that Buckeyes team almost good last year.

[teegre]

I don't know what to think. Tomlin benches AB with playoffs on the line is a ballsy move. AB had to be in the wrong. Thats a coaches job, I say AB is held accountable, Tomlin enforces rules. Now I know most fans don't give a shit as long as a player produces but isn't Tomlin setting a precedence there. Imaging if Steelers lost and the Ravens had lost what the fan base would have said. Not fair to his teammates. The story is bigger than this one event, so maybe Tomlin deserves some blame but he held his 2nd best player accountable, I don't fault him for that.

Yep. This is discipline with millennials.

Noll would have cut him (can’t do that today). Cowher would have cut him (can’t do that today). Tomlin benched him (which AB obviously didn’t like) for a playoff game... which takes huuuuuge balls.

[DesertSteel]

Trade Tomlin to the AZ Cardinals for the #1 pick. Problem solved.

[Edman]

another testament to the state of the team and its locker room under Tomlins watch

1079846208615649282

Another glaring quote from a player who gives it his all every week.

Jesse James, among many, is simply fed up with all the bullshit.

[86WARD]

Another glaring quote from a player who gives it his all every week.

Jesse James, among many, is simply fed up with all the bullshit.

Tells a lot when a guy like James is fed up.

[Mojouw]

Tells a lot when a guy like James is fed up.

Why? What do we know about James attitudes and beliefs? What is his bar for drama? Is it high is it low?

If it's as low as his blocking than it may not be very much.

I told you I'd do it...had to force it in early since Jsmes appears to be off to fail to seal the edge for a less dramatic team.

You'll be missed. Pack your roller skates!

[steelerdude15]

Yep. This is discipline with millennials.

Noll would have cut him (can’t do that today). Cowher would have cut him (can’t do that today). Tomlin benched him (which AB obviously didn’t like) for a playoff game... which takes huuuuuge balls.

Teams will still cut players who do bad things off the field unless they're good players. If you can play, you can stay.

[DesertSteel]

Why? What do we know about James attitudes and beliefs? What is his bar for drama? Is it high is it low?

If it's as low as his blocking than it may not be very much.

I told you I'd do it...had to force it in early since Jsmes appears to be off to fail to seal the edge for a less dramatic team.

You'll be missed. Pack your roller skates!
You always deny this this stuff has any effect on the players but it obviously does. Even when they come right out and say so, you marginalize it.

You just need to realize that everyone isn't calm, cool and collected like you my friend.

[Crow-Magnon]

I vote yes.

But only if AJR II hires Hue Jackson! :behindsofa:

[teegre]

Teams will still cut players who do bad things off the field unless they're good players. If you can play, you can stay.

I mean, yea, the Steelers “can” cut AB... and take a $20 million cap hit.

My point is that the current CBA sort of prevents the “out-&-out” cutting of players (due to fiscal reasons / the guaranteed portions of contracts).

[st33lersguy]

This poll has been tight with a slight edge of No, right up until the AB story, then after that, the majority has been yes

[Michael]

A soft adjustment would be to promote Munchak to Assistant Head Coach with designated duties. Duties which would minimize Tomlin's ever present damage potential. Hire a capable & strong minded
defensive coordinator. As a loyal fan I give this arrangement a better chance than Art 11 firing Tomlin this year. Offer Tomlin free Black & Gold pomp poms that he can ceremoniously throw into the stands after every Steeler victory.

[zulater]

I seriously doubt that there will be any serious thought given to firing Tomlin this year. He might have to amend some of his stubborn ways. Get a coach to help with challenges and clock management. Get rid of his buddy Joey Porter. Not sure what he should do to reign in AB? Suspend without pay comes to mind when he disregards team rules and protocals.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Joe Starkey: Mike Tomlin’s seat needs to heat up

JOE STARKEY
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
DEC 30, 2018

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/paul-zeise/2018/12/31/ben-roethlisberger-steelers-playoffs-afc-antonio-brown-injury/stories/201812310098

[st33lersguy]

I honestly want to know why Keith Butler and Danny Smith haven't been fired yet?

[DesertSteel]

I honestly want to know why Keith Butler and Danny Smith haven't been fired yet?
Because they are both likely up for extensions.

[NCSteeler]

Man I was a no before all this brown stuff, but it's getting harder everyday to not think it's time for Tomlin to fix it or move on

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

I honestly want to know why Keith Butler and Danny Smith haven't been fired yet?

That’s what we cannot forget about! That’s the priority here!!!

[86WARD]

Man I was a no before all this brown stuff, but it's getting harder everyday to not think it's time for Tomlin to fix it or move on

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Feel like I’m climbing in that same boat. Trying to stay out but someone is reeling me in...

[cubanstogie]

Im going to say no as long as long as Ben is here. As soon as Ben retires go with a younger offense minded HC. I don't have faith in current coaches to groom Rudolph. I really think next year will be Bens last. I don't know if it will be his decision, injury or big decline in production(I don't see that).

[Mojouw]

You always deny this this stuff has any effect on the players but it obviously does. Even when they come right out and say so, you marginalize it.

You just need to realize that everyone isn't calm, cool and collected like you my friend.

The whole thing was a joke to get previously mentioned "Jesse James can't block" annual rant out in off-season day one.

I'm gonna keep my powder dry on the whole locker room culture thing until more comes out. Or at least try to.

All I'll say is that there is clearly a team source that likes to leak stuff ASAP without full knowledge. Happens every time.

[GoSlash27]

I figured you were being sarcastic, but based on some of your other posts, it doesn't look like it. Yikes.

Well, guess we'd better shut down the forum. Since the only valid idea is to agree with the front office, what is there to talk about? After all, they're the only ones qualified to have an opinion, so nobody else should have one. Hey, by that logic, none of us understand the inner workings of government, only the career politicians do, so there's no reason we should have an opinion about it and no one should be allowed to vote.

On the other hand, I can think of many, many, many, many, many, many, many times when I have been right about something and the front office has been miserably, unquestionably wrong. Many. Not to mention that if nothing else, out of the 32 sacrosanct individuals in this world who are worthy of having an opinion about football, some of them do better than others. How is that possible? I thought their ideas were all beyond reproach! If the other head coaching football deities are doing better than ours, how is that? Are they using different ideas? Should we be using some of them? No, this one singular approach is beyond question, sit down and shut up.

Like, I may not be an architect, but I'm pretty sure I could tell you if the roof on your house was collapsing, and suggest some general ideas for fixing it that would be entirely correct. Same principle here. Perhaps none of us could run a practice or scout out 400 draft prospects in depth, but there is plenty of macro shit on display for everyone to see, and there is no reason not to have an opinion on it.

I mean, YOU can avoid having an opinion on it if you want, but fuck off if you think anyone else can't.

Sorry, this post is entirely missing my point.

You, I and every other rando with a keyboard is entitled to have and express any opinion we want. But keep firmly in mind the worth (or lack thereof) of said opinion.
Your opinion doesn't matter. My opinion doesn't matter. The only opinions that matter are those of the people who actually run the show.

There's no percentage in getting all worked up over how "right" you think you are or how "wrong" you think anyone else is. No sense in trying to start petitions or convince the rest of us about what you think needs to be done.
We.
Don't.
Control.
S*&t.

*That's* what I'm saying.

[86WARD]

After thinking about it and what’s been going on, I’ve changed my stance. Tomlin is the leader of this three ring circus. It all stems from him. We don’t see this shit happening ANYWHERE else. It’s a culture that Tomlin created and as a football team, you don’t trade the leagues best (or one of the best WRs) and keep a problem like Tomlin.

Stepping on the field, LeGarrett Blount walking out on the team, the fiasco in Chicago, James Harrison, LeVeon Bell and now Antonio Brown.

There’s one common factor in all of this and it’s Mike Tomlin.

The Steelers are at their lowest point in the history of the franchise right now. They are the laughing stock of the NFL...I’d be willing to bet if you threw a poll out to the informed public and asked which franchise they would take right now...Pittsburgh Steelers or Cleveland Browns, majority would pick Cleveland.

This team is an embarrassment and it all stems from Tomlin. Sure AB is immature and needs to grow up...absolutely and he’s not without fault here, but this all stems from Tomlin and it clearly has for years. Tomlins time is up...he expired and the Steelers are still throwing him out there like spoiled milk.

If the team trades AB and keeps Tomlin...they’ll be the laughing stock of the league for years to come until Tomlin is gone for good.

[AtlantaDan]

The Steelers are at their lowest point in the history of the franchise right now.

LOL - good to keep this mess in perpective

We are posting about a franchise that had only one playoff game for the first 40 years of its history and even in the Noll era kicked that off with a 1-13 season.

There are not many of us posting here who were around prior to Noll but before Noll's arrival The Chief gave the franchise its nickname when it really was at its lowest point

The Steelers finally tied for first place in 1947 with the Philadelphia Eagles, but lost the Eastern Division title in a playoff. They also had a near-miss in 1963, needing only a victory over the New York Giants in the final game to win the division. But they lost that one, too.

Other than that, the Steelers were perennial losers.

It was Rooney who inadvertently gave his team its most notorious nickname of that era. In the late '40s, the Steelers got new uniforms. During training camp a sports writer was beside Rooney as they watched practice. The writer asked the Chief what he thought of the new outfits. "The only thing different is the uniforms. Inside, it's the same old Steelers," he said.

"Same Old Steelers," was a tag the club couldn't live down for another 25 years.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2007/10/14/From-the-PG-Archives-Steelers-Art-Rooney-in-retrospect/stories/200710140183

:drink:
(https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2007/10/14/From-the-PG-Archives-Steelers-Art-Rooney-in-retrospect/stories/200710140183)

[86WARD]

I’d take the “Same Old Steelers” and their losing ways over the embarrassment and laughing stock that this franchise has become over the last few seasons. Both the “SOS” and the current ones have pretty much accomplished the same thing in the end...only there’s much more circus value added to the current group...led by a “witty” Ring Leader.

[AtlantaDan]

I’d take the “Same Old Steelers” and their losing ways over the embarrassment and laughing stock that this franchise has become over the last few seasons. Both the “SOS” and the current ones have pretty much accomplished the same thing in the end...only there’s much more circus value added to the current group...led by a “witty” Ring Leader.

You would rather take these seasons immediately prior to Noll being hired, which was what I experienced when I started to watch the NFL?

1964 5-9
1965 2-12
1966 5-8-1
1967 4-9-1
1968 2-11-1

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/index.htm

This season was a train wreck but stating the 1964-1968 and 2014-2018 Steelers "pretty much accomplished the same thing" (since they did not get to a championship game?) sets a pretty high bar for what you regard to be a satisfactory season

[86WARD]

Rather than the let down and drama that has been this team since 2013?

I would.

With the SOS Teams, there was little to no expectation. With 2013 (maybe even 2011) to 2018 there’s been nothing but drama during the season, after the season, let down amongst let down. Under achieving like I’ve never seen before. Really...this past season and this season, there’s no team more talented on paper than this offense the Steelers have had. No team. The fact that all the 2014-18 team accomplished was a winning record and a boot out of the playoffs is basically the same as not making the playoffs. My ultimate goal is Super Bowl. If you don’t get it, you fail. If you fail at 13-3 or 5-9, a fail is a fail.

Maybe I’m saying it out of frustration and my answer would be different in a few months, but as if today, I’d take those 5-9 teams over this shit show.

[Shoes]

The Wednesday presser should have been one where Tomlin had to answer questions about the team's offense, defense, ST and coaching decisions for 2018. Its too bad this AB drama took all that time.

[86WARD]

The Wednesday presser should have been one where Tomlin had to answer questions about the team's offense, defense, ST and coaching decisions for 2018. Its too bad this AB drama took all that time.

Exactly. He should still be up there answering questions...lol

[Six Rings]

I saw an online Pittsburgh newspaper poll that have over 4,000 replies. 67% want Tomlin fired.