2019 Instant Defensive Upgrades

[GBMelBlount]

I think it is almost guaranteed there will be significant changes to the defensive coaching staff.

However what I am more interested to know is how many linebacker/secondary positions can we upgrade with average/above average players with our current estimated cap space vis a vis the current wages being commanded at these positions of need?

Sure we can draft a linebacker and maybe someone for the secondary early, but we don't know if they will pan out or how long it will take.

Thoughts?

[Shoes]

I suppose that includes Tomlin since it's clearly a Tomlin/Butler defense.

[Born2Steel]

I think it is almost guaranteed there will be significant changes to the defensive coaching staff.

However what I am more interested to know is how many linebacker/secondary positions can we upgrade with average/above average players with our current estimated cap space vis a vis the current wages being commanded at these positions of need?

Sure we can draft a linebacker and maybe someone for the secondary early, but we don't know if they will pan out or how long it will take.

Thoughts?

Hopefully 2 of each.

[GBMelBlount]

Hopefully 2 of each.

So you think we have enough cap space to significantly upgrade 4 positions on defense?

That SOUNDS great to me.

Keep in mind, if we brought someone in for 10 million per year to replace someone who is 5 million, that is only 5 million in additonal cap space used.

[Born2Steel]

So you think we have enough cap space to significantly upgrade 4 positions on defense?

That SOUNDS great to me.

Keep in mind, if we brought someone in for 10 million per year to replace someone who is 5 million, that is only 5 million in additonal cap space used.

I think the Burnett role can be upgraded easily since he rarely sees the field anyway. Hopefully Edmunds can move into the SS role next season and be that upgrade. I also don't think it will take much to upgrade Artie Burns. Sensabaugh did that and he should be a backup. At ILB I don't know how to approach it since Fort, VW make a decent pair, just not consistent enough. Maybe a FA will be the answer, or Marcus Allen will become more than expected, or maybe there is another LVE or Evans in this draft when we pick. Unlike most on here I am pleased with the combo of Dupree/Watt on the outside. Depth is the question mark, IMO. And if somebody comes in that is an upgrade, BONUS. A big part of the problem to me is how much the secondary regressed after last season. Have to ask was it multiple players just became not that good anymore, or is it the position coaching change? Bradley has not impressed.

[Rotorhead]

I think you have to upgrade Dupree, if we can get a bookend to Watts 12+ sacks, say someone who get pick up 8+ or get consistent pressure our def is significantly better right away. We have the cap space to bring in either a top CB or a top OLB. We need that, preferable a CB though.

[GBMelBlount]

It sounds like we may have enough cap space to significantly upgrade one defensive lineman, linebacker AND secondary position? No?

[Fire Goodell]

If we get a shutdown #1 corner and Haden can go to a #2 this secondary will go from average to crazy good.

I also think Edmunds will be a good player for us.

[BlackAndGold]

Of course a legit starting corner will go a long way but they need to upgrade the ILB position. I want 3 down LB's. Find one via FA then draft.

I'm a fan of VW98, he's bleeds B&G but with the game becoming more spread out offensively, he shouldn't see the field much other than playing in the 34 base defense.

[steelreserve]

Draft an ILB first

New DB coach because apparently this one only made things worse

Consider what always happens when you draft dumb players with the label "incredible raw athlete, needs coaching up to develop his game to the NFL level" in the early rounds, versus what happens with players you draft in the sixth round with the label "very high football IQ but not an incredible athlete," and maybe try to apply that knowledge to more than your last couple of picks

If it is going to take a couple years for an ILB or pass rusher to completely fix that deficiency, use LeVeon Bell's money to address it immediately

Try to grasp that you do not really need DHB on the team any longer

NO FAT CHICKS

[Fire Goodell]

NO FAT CHICKS

I don't like small cars or big women, but I keep finding myself in em :chuckle:

[steelreserve]

I don't like small cars or big women, but I keep finding myself in em :chuckle:

Hopefully not at the same time.

Either way, gross.

[st33lersguy]

We don't know if the people they sign as free agents/acquire through trades will pan out. Free agency is a crap shoot as well. Jon Bostic and Morgan Burnett haven't improved the defense one iota, in fact Morgan Burnett has been a massive bust. Coty Sensashit was a free agent, so was Ladarius Green. All the defensive backs they acquired via trades, none of them panned out.

Frankly the Steelers track record of obtaining other teams players recently hasn't been good overall either.

The best way for them to upgrade the defense will be trade up into the top 12. Preferably trade up to get Devin White ILB LSU

[Rotorhead]

We don't know if the people they sign as free agents/acquire through trades will pan out. Free agency is a crap shoot as well. Jon Bostic and Morgan Burnett haven't improved the defense one iota, in fact Morgan Burnett has been a massive bust. Coty Sensashit was a free agent, so was Ladarius Green. All the defensive backs they acquired via trades, none of them panned out.

Frankly the Steelers track record of obtaining other teams players recently hasn't been good overall either.

The best way for them to upgrade the defense will be trade up into the top 12. Preferably trade up to get Devin White ILB LSU

That’s because we are picking other teams garbage castoffs, not shopping in the upper end of the FA pool.

[st33lersguy]

That’s because we are picking other teams garbage castoffs, not shopping in the upper end of the FA pool.

You mean the upper end of FA like Albert Haynesworth, Adam Archuletta, Javon Walker, Jarius Byrd, like that?

[Mojouw]

Man. If only someone invented a system where we could ask questions and then find the answers to it. If I invented that is call it Geegle.

Seriously, unless there are multiple unexpected roster cuts none of what you all want will be available on the 2019 free agent market. Or, basically ever.

[steelreserve]

Man. If only someone invented a system where we could ask questions and then find the answers to it. If I invented that is call it Geegle.

That's an odd name. I would've called it Chicken Fucker. But I guess that works too.


Seriously, unless there are multiple unexpected roster cuts none of what you all want will be available on the 2019 free agent market. Or, basically ever.

I was about to reply to the guy two posts above you with "Don't let Moujow see that, or he will be in here faster than you can say rocks and blocks telling you that it is impossible to ever find an impactful free agent ever. And while we're at it, that it's impossible to find anything other than "incredible athlete, needs work" outside the top 3 picks in the draft. But you were one step ahead.

While it is rare to simply straight-up sign a superstar free agent out of the blue, that's not really what we need to do. I don't think using free agency to go from meh to superstar at a position is realistic. But going from deficient to pretty-good at a position via free agency - OR TRADE - happens all the time.

Every year there are like 50 guys who get unloaded for a comically low draft pick for one reason or another. Salary cap reasons, new scheme where they're the odd man out, drafted someone younger and cheaper, doesn't like the team, coach's doghouse, etc. And some guys who get traded for a reasonable offer, although fewer of those.

I mean, sure, you can look at only the players whose contracts are expiring and the team is not going to re-sign, and you can sign for free, and you will get a very small number of impact players. Or you can consider other offers that you can make, and it opens it up to potentially several key players at any position. Some of which will be at a reasonable cost to you, and a subset of which might actually happen. Silly to take the attitude of "no hope / our hands are tied" unless you're just refusing to consider a large portion of the way players of all levels move around the league. You might not be able to predict who is available for what price or when, but it is a damn sight better than sitting on our hands with $40 million in cap space and extending Bud Dupree because "oh well, he could be worse."

[Mojouw]

That's an odd name. I would've called it Chicken Fucker. But I guess that works too.



I was about to reply to the guy two posts above you with "Don't let Moujow see that, or he will be in here faster than you can say rocks and blocks telling you that it is impossible to ever find an impactful free agent ever. And while we're at it, that it's impossible to find anything other than "incredible athlete, needs work" outside the top 3 picks in the draft. But you were one step ahead.

While it is rare to simply straight-up sign a superstar free agent out of the blue, that's not really what we need to do. I don't think using free agency to go from meh to superstar at a position is realistic. But going from deficient to pretty-good at a position via free agency - OR TRADE - happens all the time.

Every year there are like 50 guys who get unloaded for a comically low draft pick for one reason or another. Salary cap reasons, new scheme where they're the odd man out, drafted someone younger and cheaper, doesn't like the team, coach's doghouse, etc. And some guys who get traded for a reasonable offer, although fewer of those.

I mean, sure, you can look at only the players whose contracts are expiring and the team is not going to re-sign, and you can sign for free, and you will get a very small number of impact players. Or you can consider other offers that you can make, and it opens it up to potentially several key players at any position. Some of which will be at a reasonable cost to you, and a subset of which might actually happen. Silly to take the attitude of "no hope / our hands are tied" unless you're just refusing to consider a large portion of the way players of all levels move around the league. You might not be able to predict who is available for what price or when, but it is a damn sight better than sitting on our hands with $40 million in cap space and extending Bud Dupree because "oh well, he could be worse."

You know me so well!! I kind of agree with what you are saying. But I believe there is one part to getting players that change outcomes of games and seasons - the draft. Trades and FA can fill in around that and add spice to the sauce.

But other than Reggie White I can't think of too many FA signings that catapulted a team to another level.

Also to be clear the defense needs at least one superstar level player and two highly impactful guys to come anywhere close to being what you all want it to be.

[steelreserve]

You know me so well!! I kind of agree with what you are saying. But I believe there is one part to getting players that change outcomes of games and seasons - the draft. Trades and FA can fill in around that and add spice to the sauce.

But other than Reggie White I can't think of too many FA signings that catapulted a team to another level.

Also to be clear the defense needs at least one superstar level player and two highly impactful guys to come anywhere close to being what you all want it to be.

Nah, it's more of ... think about the effect on the 2008 defense if we hadn't signed Ryan Clark or James Farrior. There would be a couple of pretty crappy guys starting in their place.

Those are the kinds of moves we need to make, except we're not gunning for best defense in the league, just pretty good. Replace Bostic with a guy who can cover, maybe a legit #2 corner, maybe a better pass rusher than Dupree or just the same as Dupree but not for $10 million (of ee can bring him back paying him for his actual performance and not double that, then fine).

We don't need to shoot for a superstar, just plug the two worst holes. I guess we tried to do that on a shoestring last year, but we kind of fucked up. We have more resources for that this year, if say, we had the chance to trade a 5th-round pick for an ILB making $9 million who his team was going to dump for salary reasons - we could totally do that now.

[teegre]

Go “all in” on Jalen Ramsey.

[st33lersguy]

Go “all in” on Jalen Ramsey.

No thank you, the last thing the team needs is another locker room cancer. I've had enough of clowns like Bell and Bryant, don't need another one

[FrancoLambert]

No thank you, the last thing the team needs is another locker room cancer. I've had enough of clowns like Bell and Bryant, don't need another one

Are you crazy?

Coach Tomlin will make him tow the line.

:sarcasm2:

[Mojouw]

Nah, it's more of ... think about the effect on the 2008 defense if we hadn't signed Ryan Clark or James Farrior. There would be a couple of pretty crappy guys starting in their place.

Those are the kinds of moves we need to make, except we're not gunning for best defense in the league, just pretty good. Replace Bostic with a guy who can cover, maybe a legit #2 corner, maybe a better pass rusher than Dupree or just the same as Dupree but not for $10 million (of ee can bring him back paying him for his actual performance and not double that, then fine).

We don't need to shoot for a superstar, just plug the two worst holes. I guess we tried to do that on a shoestring last year, but we kind of fucked up. We have more resources for that this year, if say, we had the chance to trade a 5th-round pick for an ILB making $9 million who his team was going to dump for salary reasons - we could totally do that now.

Without a playmaking star and two more supporting pieces this defense will continue to leak yards and bleed points.

Keep patching with duct tape and baling wire or swing from your heels and hope to hit a home run.

[Fire Goodell]

I wish we had vander esch

[vader29]

I don't like small cars or big women, but I keep finding myself in em :chuckle:

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/97000/Man-Driving-with-a-Fat-Lady--97088.jpg

[GBMelBlount]

You know me so well!! I kind of agree with what you are saying. But I believe there is one part to getting players that change outcomes of games and seasons - the draft. Trades and FA can fill in around that and add spice to the sauce.

But other than Reggie White I can't think of too many FA signings that catapulted a team to another level.

Also to be clear the defense needs at least one superstar level player and two highly impactful guys to come anywhere close to being what you all want it to be.

Agreed, however two or three thoughtful and significant upgrades can make THE difference now imo.

While not to the same level as Reggie White, what about an FA acquisition similar to Ravens picking up Weddle when he became available.

I remember us discussing Weddle when he became available and while many felt he would be a significant upgrade, we were more cash strapped at that point.

I think the benefits of the (hopeful) coaching changes next year and a few instant upgrades on defense can make all the difference.

While uncommon, we currently have a little money to actually do this while we hopefully still have a window with Ben.

[steelcityboyz]

No thank you, the last thing the team needs is another locker room cancer. I've had enough of clowns like Bell and Bryant, don't need another oneRamsey would make this Defense better and this team a serious contender immediately. I agree 100 % Ramsey is a cancer. But the drama on the Steelers team is never going to go away, as long as Tomlin let's it happen. And as history has proven, Tomlin is going to let it happen. So, what have we got to lose by signing him? For that matter Earl Thomas would look good in a steeler uni as well.

[st33lersguy]

Ramsey would make this Defense better and this team a serious contender immediately. I agree 100 % Ramsey is a cancer. But the drama on the Steelers team is never going to go away, as long as Tomlin let's it happen. And as history has proven, Tomlin is going to let it happen. So, what have we got to lose by signing him? For that matter Earl Thomas would look good in a steeler uni as well.

The only thing Ramsey will do for the team is turn them into an even bigger clown show than they have already become. For the steep price Ramsey will command, the team needs a high character guy, not a loudmouth who spends most of his time trash talking

[Shoes]

AJRII "standard" for a player is "Fit our culture", "Good teammate" and a "Good Steeler." Makes me wonder why they picked up LeGarrette Blount? :chuckle:

[Six Rings]

If we get a shutdown #1 corner and Haden can go to a #2 this secondary will go from average to crazy good.

I also think Edmunds will be a good player for us.

We could trade for J. Ramsey. He's the best corner in the NFL, a shut down type who can make the other team pay if they test him too much. I'd trade our 1st and 3rd round pick for Ramsey, give him the Bell Money. Then we'd have two really good corners.

Round 2? Best iLB on the board, three down variety.

[GBMelBlount]

DEFENSE:

It looks like the deepest positions in the draft next year are interior linemen and edge rushers (https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/08/30/top-3-deepest-positions-for-the-2019-nfl-draft/).

Draft two blue chip defensive linemen in rounds 1 & 2 because the value should be off the charts and it will upgrade to the rest of the defense.

Acquire a top shelf linebacker and cornerback in free agency to significantly upgrade the secondary without question. Maybe an extra 6-8 mil net spent at each position? We have the money.

Upgrade our defensive coaching.

Done.

OFFENSE:

Rounds 3-5 - a lineman for Munchak (makes chicken salad out of chicken sh*t), a receiver (have to keep Ben loaded!) and a running back (unless you feel Samuels is the #2 guy).

Done.

[43Hitman]

Todd Bowles as DC when he gets canned in NY

[86WARD]

Go “all in” on Jalen Ramsey.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

[GBMelBlount]

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Anyone know how much of our cap space he would chew up?

Also, can you put a STFU clause in a contract?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Anyone know how much of our cap space he would chew up?

Also, can you put a STFU clause in a contract?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P_H1lUkqrk

[teegre]

No thank you, the last thing the team needs is another locker room cancer. I've had enough of clowns like Bell and Bryant, don't need another one

For most positions, I want a team guy. But, for CB, you sort of need a me first, ego-centric a$$hole.

Deion Sanders: me first, ego-centric a$$hole

Darrelle Revis: me first, ego-centric a$$hole

Richard Sherman: me first, ego-centric a$$hole

[teegre]

I wish we had vander esch

:no: #saltinthewound

[Rotorhead]

For the comment above saying there are no impact players found in FA, Khalil Mack would have changed our season, and we could have afforded him by rescinding Bells tag.

If the draft is supposed to be deep in DL and OLB then we draft Dupree’s replacement in the first, then go FA for the best CB we can afford. I can live with our ILB play we had this season if we can upgrade the other 2.

[86WARD]

:no: #saltinthewound

Use a first and third to get Ramsey. Use 2 and 3 on LB help, use 4 on BOPA and use 5-6 on BPA. 7 use on a K.

[Mojouw]

For the comment above saying there are no impact players found in FA, Khalil Mack would have changed our season, and we could have afforded him by rescinding Bells tag.

If the draft is supposed to be deep in DL and OLB then we draft Dupree’s replacement in the first, then go FA for the best CB we can afford. I can live with our ILB play we had this season if we can upgrade the other 2.

Mack wasn't a free agent. He was a trade acquisition. Mack never got the UFA market and he never will.

Trading for a guy like Mack or Ramsay or Marcus Peters is far different than looking to free agency.

[Born2Steel]

Go “all in” on Jalen Ramsey.

I would need a definition of "ALL IN" first. Is this going to cost me AB, JuJu, Watt, etc? Is this going to strap the franchise financially so we have great CBs but 2nd tier everywhere else? That statement looks great on the forum but what all does it involve. I'm not against it just can't be for it until I see the expected costs.

- - - Updated - - -


Mack wasn't a free agent. He was a trade acquisition. Mack never got the UFA market and he never will.

Trading for a guy like Mack or Ramsay or Marcus Peters is far different than looking to free agency.

A trade for Mack probably would have cost us somewhere around the neighborhood of JuJu plus a 1st rd draft pick this draft.

[Steeldude]

Getting rid of Tomlin would be an upgrade.

[Mojouw]

I would need a definition of "ALL IN" first. Is this going to cost me AB, JuJu, Watt, etc? Is this going to strap the franchise financially so we have great CBs but 2nd tier everywhere else? That statement looks great on the forum but what all does it involve. I'm not against it just can't be for it until I see the expected costs.

- - - Updated - - -



A trade for Mack probably would have cost us somewhere around the neighborhood of JuJu plus a 1st rd draft pick this draft.

Sure. But my only point is rostering altering players rarely make it to free agency in their prime any more.

If you want to improve a part of your team to a high level it's the draft or trades.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Born2Steel]

Sure. But my only point is rostering altering players rarely make it to free agency in their prime any more.

If you want to improve a part of your team to a high level it's the draft or trades.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. I was only trying to put an qualifying price to a trade like that. You get better in one area but lose strength in another.

[Mojouw]

Agreed. I was only trying to put an qualifying price to a trade like that. You get better in one area but lose strength in another.

For sure! It's a big roll of the dice.

[86WARD]

I would need a definition of "ALL IN" first. Is this going to cost me AB, JuJu, Watt, etc? Is this going to strap the franchise financially so we have great CBs but 2nd tier everywhere else? That statement looks great on the forum but what all does it involve. I'm not against it just can't be for it until I see the expected costs.

- - - Updated - - -



A trade for Mack probably would have cost us somewhere around the neighborhood of JuJu plus a 1st rd draft pick this draft.

It wouldn’t cost you JuJu at all. It would cost a first and six from 2019...not a big deal and a first and third from 2020...again, not a big deal considering you have a compensatory third from Bell in 2020 to replace the one you’ve given for Mack. Basically, two first round picks. In addition, it would cost $141M contract with $90M guaranteed over 6 years (basically Bells money plus a little). If you want one of the best defensive players in the league, you have to pay...and look what he did for a floundering Bears defense and what missing him did to the Raiders.

JuJu wouldn’t have been included in that deal...neither would AB, Watt, etc. Contracts down the line? Meh...if they want to keep them, they can make the contracts work creatively...Mack’s deal wouldn’t have cap strapped them to that point...

[teegre]

I would need a definition of "ALL IN" first. Is this going to cost me AB, JuJu, Watt, etc? Is this going to strap the franchise financially so we have great CBs but 2nd tier everywhere else? That statement looks great on the forum but what all does it involve. I'm not against it just can't be for it until I see the expected costs.

I guess I should not have used the phrase “all in”, because I’m not trading away “everyone” for one player.

My intention was to make Jalen Ramsey my sole focus of the off-season.

I would easily trade a R1 & R3. If it cost a R1 & R2... so be it. Getting a CB of Ramsey’s ability-level would require trading up into the top ten... which would cost more than a R1 & R2 pick.

[86WARD]

I guess I should not have used the phrase “all in”, because I’m not trading away “everyone” for one player.

My intention was to make Jalen Ramsey my sole focus of the off-season.

I would easily trade a R1 & R3. If it cost a R1 & R2... so be it. Getting a CB of Ramsey’s ability-level would require trading up into the top ten... which would cost more than a R1 & R2 pick.

Would you do a package similar to what Chicago did for Mack? Not quite that large but let’s say it had to involve a contract restructure and minimum 2 firsts and a third?

[teegre]

Would you do a package similar to what Chicago did for Mack? Not quite that large but let’s say it had to involve a contract restructure and minimum 2 firsts and a third?

R1 in 2019
R1 & R3 in 2020

Done!!!

Then, use the “Le’Veon Bell” money to give Ramsey a front-loaded contract.

[86WARD]

R1 in 2019
R1 & R3 in 2020

Done!!!

Then, use the “Le’Veon Bell” money to give Ramsey a front-loaded contract.

We are on the same page. That third round in 2020 is nothing really because you’ll be getting that back via Bell (and who knows what else you could get from Bell if they decide to go to arbitration and then were to win and retain the tag for another season). To me, what you listed above is an “all in” deal.

[teegre]

We are on the same page. That third round in 2020 is nothing really because you’ll be getting that back via Bell (and who knows what else you could get from Bell if they decide to go to arbitration and then were to win and retain the tag for another season). To me, what you listed above is an “all in” deal.

100% I’ll email Colbert. Is his email still:

icannotdraftcorners@wideoutsindroves

[86WARD]

100% I’ll email Colbert. Is his email still:

icannotdraftcorners@wideoutsindroves

Lol. I’m sure once he sees we are in agreement, he’ll get right on that.

It would be funny if a fan could get to an opposing teams owner and broker a deal like that and then make it happen...

[teegre]

Lol. I’m sure once he sees we are in agreement, he’ll get right on that.

It would be funny if a fan could get to an opposing teams owner and broker a deal like that and then make it happen...

An interesting tidbit (that’s in the same vein)...

Decades ago, Marty Schottenheimer walked up to an NFL head coach and handed him a list of who Marty had as the top players in the draft (complete with analysis). There were several names that the coach hadn’t really thought about... and, low & behold, they turned out to be great players. That was Marty’s entry-point into the NFL... so, stranger things have indeed happened.

[pczach]

An interesting tidbit (that’s in the same vein)...

Decades ago, Marty Schottenheimer walked up to an NFL head coach and handed him a list of who Marty had as the top players in the draft (complete with analysis). There were several names that the coach hadn’t really thought about... and, low & behold, they turned out to be great players. That was Marty’s entry-point into the NFL... so, stranger things have indeed happened.


Maybe we should try that. Talk about my dream job!

Then we can have every decision we make get questioned by other clowns just like us. :flap:

[Mojouw]

R1 in 2019
R1 & R3 in 2020

Done!!!

Then, use the “Le’Veon Bell” money to give Ramsey a front-loaded contract.

I wouldn’t even think twice about this. The need for a corner is getting absolutely dire.

Haden could fall off a cliff at any point (and he isn’t as good as he looks by comparison to the rest of the dirt balls that play CB for the team)

The rest of the CB depth chart is just a wasteland.

[Born2Steel]

I guess I should not have used the phrase “all in”, because I’m not trading away “everyone” for one player.

My intention was to make Jalen Ramsey my sole focus of the off-season.

I would easily trade a R1 & R3. If it cost a R1 & R2... so be it. Getting a CB of Ramsey’s ability-level would require trading up into the top ten... which would cost more than a R1 & R2 pick.

I do not see either on any FA list for this off season, I'm interested in a guy of the Ramsay/Peters ability in FA. When I think of the probable cost though I think, but I may need those draft picks to get my next QB in 2020. Then I think, what's maybe a cheaper version of the Ramsay/Peters CB in FA? Also like what you posted, a front loaded deal on any FA so it doesn't stick out down the road as a bad move. A player such as Bradley Roby/Brashaud Breeland who is coming off his rookie deal and is looking for his first "real" NFL contract may be such a candidate. To me the FA route makes more sense than the trade route I guess is the gist of this. To my way of looking at it (just throwing out names for conversation purposes) for the same cost as trading for Ramsay, we can get a combo of Bradley Roby and Deone Bucannon (or whichever combo better fits in your opinion).

The Ravens are apparently going to go through a drastic organizational change at the end of this season. What are the chances of stealing away an UFA CJ Mosley or Patrick Onwuasor? Or RFA Stanley Jean-Baptiste? Too early to get deep into anything but I would like to explore FA first.

[Shoes]

Earl Thomas will be looking for work.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001004481/article/cowboys-sean-lee-bucs-jameis-winston-need-new-team-in-19

[Born2Steel]

It wouldn’t cost you JuJu at all. It would cost a first and six from 2019...not a big deal and a first and third from 2020...again, not a big deal considering you have a compensatory third from Bell in 2020 to replace the one you’ve given for Mack. Basically, two first round picks. In addition, it would cost $141M contract with $90M guaranteed over 6 years (basically Bells money plus a little). If you want one of the best defensive players in the league, you have to pay...and look what he did for a floundering Bears defense and what missing him did to the Raiders.

JuJu wouldn’t have been included in that deal...neither would AB, Watt, etc. Contracts down the line? Meh...if they want to keep them, they can make the contracts work creatively...Mack’s deal wouldn’t have cap strapped them to that point...

My point is there is a cap. Paying a Mack salary will possibly cost us a premier player down the road. Trades are expensive. If Mack is worth 2 1st round picks, then why not worth a straight trade of one 1st and TJ?(1 of Best D player in NFL > TJ) Or a 1st, 3rd, and JuJu? Because you cannot re-sign all rookies anyway. Asking mainly because I don't try to understand the finances. I just know trades cost way more than FAs in most cases.

- - - Updated - - -


Earl Thomas will be looking for work.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001004481/article/cowboys-sean-lee-bucs-jameis-winston-need-new-team-in-19

StarBucks is always hiring.

[teegre]

I do not see either on any FA list for this off season, I'm interested in a guy of the Ramsay/Peters ability in FA. When I think of the probable cost though I think, but I may need those draft picks to get my next QB in 2020. Then I think, what's maybe a cheaper version of the Ramsay/Peters CB in FA? Also like what you posted, a front loaded deal on any FA so it doesn't stick out down the road as a bad move. A player such as Bradley Roby/Brashaud Breeland who is coming off his rookie deal and is looking for his first "real" NFL contract may be such a candidate. To me the FA route makes more sense than the trade route I guess is the gist of this. To my way of looking at it (just throwing out names for conversation purposes) for the same cost as trading for Ramsay, we can get a combo of Bradley Roby and Deone Bucannon (or whichever combo better fits in your opinion).

The Ravens are apparently going to go through a drastic organizational change at the end of this season. What are the chances of stealing away an UFA CJ Mosley or Patrick Onwuasor? Or RFA Stanley Jean-Baptiste? Too early to get deep into anything but I would like to explore FA first.

Ramsey gives your defense two shutdown corners. It essentially takes two receivers out of the game. The other receivers would get doubled and/or bracketed. Furthermore, two shotdown corners makes the opposing QB have to “find” his third & fourth reads, which means he has to hold the ball for 1 second longer... and, with our pass rush, that’s at least two more sacks (and four more pressures) per game.

There are lower-cost corners who would definitely be an upgrade over Sensabaugh, but I want the BEST corner out there. I think that that one move would solve a TON of our defensive woes.

You bring up a good counterpoint about the 2020 Draft; it will be chock full of franchise QBs: Jake Fromm, Jacob Eason, and Justin Herbert should go 1-2-3. Acquiring them would cost a TON. Plus, I think the Steelers roll with either Dobbs or Rudolph for a few seasons.

[Shoes]

My point is there is a cap. Paying a Mack salary will possibly cost us a premier player down the road. Trades are expensive. If Mack is worth 2 1st round picks, then why not worth a straight trade of one 1st and TJ?(1 of Best D player in NFL > TJ) Or a 1st, 3rd, and JuJu? Because you cannot re-sign all rookies anyway. Asking mainly because I don't try to understand the finances. I just know trades cost way more than FAs in most cases.

- - - Updated - - -



StarBucks is always hiring.


:chuckle:

[86WARD]

My point is there is a cap. Paying a Mack salary will possibly cost us a premier player down the road. Trades are expensive. If Mack is worth 2 1st round picks, then why not worth a straight trade of one 1st and TJ?(1 of Best D player in NFL > TJ) Or a 1st, 3rd, and JuJu? Because you cannot re-sign all rookies anyway. Asking mainly because I don't try to understand the finances. I just know trades cost way more than FAs in most cases.

- - - Updated - - -



StarBucks is always hiring.

You keep a known like Watt and JuJu and give up the unknown of the first round pick. Could be Jarvis Jones Jr. and Bud Dupree Jr. in 2019 and 2020. You wouldn’t give up those two “seniors” for Jalen Ramsey? Financially it’s little to no impact on the future as far as those guys you listed go...this is TE money they had slotted for Bell so it’s not really like it isn’t already accounted for. As far as a future premier player...there’s no need for it if you can get that player now while Ben and AB are here...in the future, it may be a bigger waste...

[Born2Steel]

You keep a known like Watt and JuJu and give up the unknown of the first round pick. Could be Jarvis Jones Jr. and Bud Dupree Jr. in 2019 and 2020. You wouldn’t give up those two “seniors” for Jalen Ramsey? Financially it’s little to no impact on the future as far as those guys you listed go...this is TE money they had slotted for Bell so it’s not really like it isn’t already accounted for. As far as a future premier player...there’s no need for it if you can get that player now while Ben and AB are here...in the future, it may be a bigger waste...

I get that part. And maybe my brain is hung up on something small here. What I guess I am thinking is if you make that 'blockbuster' trade, Ramsay/Mack, that doesn't allow you to re-sign at least one of your current premier players, Watt/JuJu, due to cap restraints in the future. IF it is just that easy to trade away draft picks and add more premier players to the roster via trade, then why go into the draft at all? I would never have a first or second round pick because I would trade them away for known players. There must be something that prevents teams from simply taking this route instead of the draft. The "if it were that easy everyone would be doing it" thought process is what I am trying to find my way around here.

[Born2Steel]

Ramsey gives your defense two shutdown corners. It essentially takes two receivers out of the game. The other receivers would get doubled and/or bracketed. Furthermore, two shotdown corners makes the opposing QB have to “find” his third & fourth reads, which means he has to hold the ball for 1 second longer... and, with our pass rush, that’s at least two more sacks (and four more pressures) per game.

There are lower-cost corners who would definitely be an upgrade over Sensabaugh, but I want the BEST corner out there. I think that that one move would solve a TON of our defensive woes.

You bring up a good counterpoint about the 2020 Draft; it will be chock full of franchise QBs: Jake Fromm, Jacob Eason, and Justin Herbert should go 1-2-3. Acquiring them would cost a TON. Plus, I think the Steelers roll with either Dobbs or Rudolph for a few seasons.

That one more shutdown CB could be ALL that is lacking from this defense actually. Haden stays healthy, Davis and Edmunds grow fully into their roles, Hilton and Sutton get to concentrate on slot/nickel this secondary is suddenly good again. Very good on paper.

[BlackAndGold]

The Jags will pay Ramsey his money. Shut down corners don't get traded.

[hawaiiansteeler]

The Jags will pay Ramsey his money. Shut down corners don't get traded.

Jalen Ramsey would make a great addition to any team lacking a locker room cancer...

[BlackAndGold]

Jalen Ramsey would make a great addition to any team lacking a locker room cancer...

That cancer can play though.

[hawaiiansteeler]

That cancer can play though.

so could T.O., would you want him on your team?

[st33lersguy]

For most positions, I want a team guy. But, for CB, you sort of need a me first, ego-centric a$$hole.

Deion Sanders: me first, ego-centric a$$hole

Darrelle Revis: me first, ego-centric a$$hole

Richard Sherman: me first, ego-centric a$$hole

I never remembered Champ Bailey being a loudmouth locker room cancer, Patrick Peterson doesn't seem like one either. Also Revis was never the loudmouth asshole Ramsey is

[st33lersguy]

As for corners, I'd probably give up a 1st and possibly as high as a 3rd in 2020 for Patrick Peterson, highly talented, special CB, not the loudmouth locker room cancer Jalen Ramsey is. I wouldn't trade a bag of peanuts for Ramsey, the team is a big enough clown show without Ramsey spewing dumb insults at every opponent he is about to face.

- - - Updated - - -


That one more shutdown CB could be ALL that is lacking from this defense actually. Haden stays healthy, Davis and Edmunds grow fully into their roles, Hilton and Sutton get to concentrate on slot/nickel this secondary is suddenly good again. Very good on paper.

This team needs help all over the back 8 though. They still need ILBs who can cover and aren't just 2 down run stuffers, they need a pass rusher opposite TJ Watt (and a lot of depth), they also need an upgrade at safety (and depth there as well).

[Mojouw]

so could T.O., would you want him on your team?

Didn't like every one of TO teams to to the SB?

[teegre]

I never remembered Champ Bailey being a loudmouth locker room cancer, Patrick Peterson doesn't seem like one either. Also Revis was never the loudmouth asshole Ramsey is

I’ll give you Bailey & Peterson, but Revis (while not a loudmouth) was the epitome of “me, me, me”.

[st33lersguy]

Didn't like every one of TO teams to to the SB?

T.O. appeared in only one Super Bowl in his career (and he missed that year's playoffs due to injury)

[Born2Steel]

T.O. was a great player and a lousy teammate. His downfall was he made his QBs hate playing so he was shipped off. If the player is a DB with the same skill level as T.O. he doesn't get shipped off because it doesn't affect the play of the QB. The players in the locker room couldn't care less if a player is a loud mouthed asshat so long as he puts in the work and can back it up on the field. Same for fans and coaches and owners. Ryan Clark was a shit talker but everybody knew he was bringing it every play too.

[BlackAndGold]

so could T.O., would you want him on your team?

Believe I would.

Only time I wouldn't want T.O. is if the team was filled with young players.

- - - Updated - - -


I’ll give you Bailey & Peterson, but Revis (while not a loudmouth) was the epitome of “me, me, me”.

2 years after he signed a contract he wanted more money.

[NCSteeler]

I haven't even read the whole thread, but basically we need to find a Bus or a Farrior free agent find. Very hard ask. Would love to find another Potsie. Seal up the middle for years

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[Born2Steel]

The Jags will pay Ramsey his money. Shut down corners don't get traded.

Ramsay is only in his 3rd year of his rookie contract. Add in the Jags picking up his 5th year option, he won't hit FA until 2021. That means he would cost US 2 first rounders plus to get him via trade this offseason, IMO. He's just not worth that I don't think. There are UFAs that would be much cheaper however expensive they are.

[Istina]

I would try and figure out a way to get either Jalen Ramsey or Earl Thomas, either makes the defense good enough to win a Super Bowl with Ben and the offense. If Ben is going to play 2 more years (as he's said) then go all in and get the piece to make those two years potential super Bowl years.

Pappy

[teegre]

Ramsay is only in his 3rd year of his rookie contract. Add in the Jags picking up his 5th year option, he won't hit FA until 2021. That means he would cost US 2 first rounders plus to get him via trade this offseason, IMO. He's just not worth that I don't think. There are UFAs that would be much cheaper however expensive they are.

Ramsey wants out... making him “tradable”.

[Mojouw]

Ramsey wants out... making him “tradable”.

Besides Jags can't pay everyone now much less in 2 years when rookie deals expire.

Disgruntled player traded for draft picks and cap relief? That never happens.

[teegre]

Besides Jags can't pay everyone now much less in 2 years when rookie deals expire.

Disgruntled player traded for draft picks and cap relief? That never happens.

Ramsey will be playing elsewhere in 2019. (Why not in Pittsburgh?)

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ramsey will be playing elsewhere in 2019. (Why not in Pittsburgh?)

because Ramsey wants to be the highest paid CB in the NFL...

[Shoes]

because Ramsey wants to be the highest paid CB in the NFL...

Le'Veon Ramsey, just what we need. :chuckle:

[teegre]

because Ramsey wants to be the highest paid CB in the NFL...

1. Pay him $17 million/season for 2019 & 2020.
2. Win two more Super Bowls.
3. When he wants to renegotiate, trade him.

[Mojouw]

Ok. Fire all the coaches but don't like the idea of certain players because you think they're crappy people or want too much money.

Huh? Either it's all about winning or it's not.

Personally, Id consider employing a few low key alleged serial killers if they were the best at their position.

[hawaiiansteeler]

1. Pay him $17 million/season for 2019 & 2020.
2. Win two more Super Bowls.
3. When he wants to renegotiate, trade him.

should have done that with Le'Veon Bell :stirthepot:

[GBMelBlount]

1. Pay him $17 million/season for 2019 & 2020.
2. Win two more Super Bowls.
3. When he wants to renegotiate, trade him.

My main concern with this is the Shazier factor...

I wonder if we can upgrade two or three positions (ILB/secondary) via free agency instead of one blockbuster player and achieve a similar overall improvement with the same investment but lower risk.

Then upgrade the defensive line / edge rushers through the early draft.

[pczach]

My main concern with this is the Shazier factor...

I wonder if we can upgrade two or three positions (ILB/secondary) via free agency instead of one blockbuster player and achieve a similar overall improvement with the same investment but lower risk.

Then upgrade the defensive line / edge rushers through the early draft.


They can also take that approach, and I'm fine with it. The only problem when you try to land multiple quality free agents is that sometimes, you end up getting neither because they most often go where they get the most money, and the best FA set the market and compete for the big pieces of the pie. In other words, they may go into it intending to get 2 players that are in the top 5-6 players at their positions, but end up settling for two guys that are more like top 12-15 at their positions because of limited availability and money.

I get it. Multiple great players is better than one, but it's not that simple with a limited quantity and competing against every other team in the NFL for the same player.

If you trade for a player, You are the only team negotiating with him on a new contract, and are guaranteed to be getting the player you really want.

[Six Rings]

I think it is almost guaranteed there will be significant changes to the defensive coaching staff.

However what I am more interested to know is how many linebacker/secondary positions can we upgrade with average/above average players with our current estimated cap space vis a vis the current wages being commanded at these positions of need?

Sure we can draft a linebacker and maybe someone for the secondary early, but we don't know if they will pan out or how long it will take.

Thoughts?

True for Jaylen Ramsey! This would give us a shut down type of cornerback, and Haden. IMO, he's worth our 1st and 3rd round pick. Then we can use our 2nd round pick on a three down ILB who can tackle, run and cover.

[teegre]

My main concern with this is the Shazier factor...

I wonder if we can upgrade two or three positions (ILB/secondary) via free agency instead of one blockbuster player and achieve a similar overall improvement with the same investment but lower risk.

Then upgrade the defensive line / edge rushers through the early draft.

We have tried that. Normally, I’m all for improving though the draft. But, I want to win NOW.

Draft picks... that is hit & miss; plus, it can take them a year or two to get up to speed. . Free agehts... Bostic... meh.

I just want a home run, and Ramsey is the only top-echelon player who is “available”.

WHY?
With Ramsey on the opposition’s WR1, and Haden on the WR2, the opposing QBs would have to locate their third & fourth options... which takes an extra 1/2 second. Add to that the fact that the Steelers have “just enough” talent in the front 7 to already create a good pass rush... the Steelers pass rush would go from good to great. They’d get pressure on almost every drop back.

[Born2Steel]

We have tried that. Normally, I’m all for improving though the draft. But, I want to win NOW.

Draft picks... that is hit & miss; plus, it can take them a year or two to get up to speed. . Free agehts... Bostic... meh.

I just want a home run, and Ramsey is the only top-echelon player who is “available”.

WHY?
With Ramsey on the opposition’s WR1, and Haden on the WR2, the opposing QBs would have to locate their third & fourth options... which takes an extra 1/2 second. Add to that the fact that the Steelers have “just enough” talent in the front 7 to already create a good pass rush... the Steelers pass rush would go from good to great. They’d get pressure on almost every drop back.

I do not disagree with your logic. I only think using FA is the better route.

[teegre]

I do not disagree with your logic. I only think using FA is the better route.

If there is a FA anywhere near as good as Ramsey, then Yes that would be the better route. (Saves draft picks.)

Alas, I just do not see anyone “on his level” out there.

[hawaiiansteeler]

If there is a FA anywhere near as good as Ramsey, then Yes that would be the better route. (Saves draft picks.)

Alas, I just do not see anyone “on his level” out there.

there isn't, I think the top FA CBs this year are Darqueze Bernard, Jason Verrett and Bradley Roby...

[teegre]

there isn't, I think the top FA CBs this year are Darqueze Bernard, Jason Verrett and Bradley Roby...

Yep :nod: Any of those three would be an instant upgrade over Sensabaugh, but I do not merely want an upgrade...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE&app=desktop

[pczach]

Yep :nod: Any of those three would be an instant upgrade over Sensabaugh, but I do not merely want an upgrade...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE&app=desktop



How would you feel about picking up 2 of those cornerbacks, and moving Haden to FS if he was willing to make the switch?

Haden is a smart, instinctive player with ball skills. They would probably need to get rid of Burnett and then decide on Sean Davis and Edmunds. It's a lot of change, but I would be up for any infusion of talent in secondary free agents. I'm just wondering if Haden changing positions is on the table. It would be the equivalent of upgrading the entire secondary from a coverage standpoint with 2 signings. It would also allow them to really lock down in man coverage because there would be 3 legit cover corners on the field....which is exactly what you need to hold up against modern, wide-open passing schemes.

[hawaiiansteeler]

How would you feel about picking up 2 of those cornerbacks, and moving Haden to FS if he was willing to make the switch?

Haden is a smart, instinctive player with ball skills. They would probably need to get rid of Burnett and then decide on Sean Davis and Edmunds. It's a lot of change, but I would be up for any infusion of talent in secondary free agents. I'm just wondering if Haden changing positions is on the table. It would be the equivalent of upgrading the entire secondary from a coverage standpoint with 2 signings. It would also allow them to really lock down in man coverage because there would be 3 legit cover corners on the field....which is exactly what you need to hold up against modern, wide-open passing schemes.

I remember a lot of people in favor of drafting Dennard with our #1 draft pick...

[Born2Steel]

If there is a FA anywhere near as good as Ramsey, then Yes that would be the better route. (Saves draft picks.)

Alas, I just do not see anyone “on his level” out there.

There is not a FA "on his level". I don't believe that is what we require though. I love the thought of it, I do. I use Hilton as the analogy here. Hilton via FA, or trade for PJ Williams/Honey Badger? Hilton is not considered on the level of Williams/HB, but he works here. He just fits the scheme. And the cost is in line with 'US'.

[pczach]

I remember a lot of people in favor of drafting Dennard with our #1 draft pick...


I was one of them. He got off to a slow start, but he has improved and has become a good player.