A Grinchy look ahead to whose Steeler career is about to be over.

[zulater]

When they Steelers pack their locker room up these are some of the players I expect and in certain cases hope to never see in a Steeler uni again.

1. Steve Ridley. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 80 yards on 29 carries! 2 fumbles!

2. Xavier Grimble. His decision to truck the safety instead of concentrating on ball security is one of the things that headed the Steelers down the road to ruin.

3. Justin Hunter. Never got on the same page as Ben.

4. Marcus Gilbert. Makes too much money to miss that many games. Can and has been cost effectively replaced.

5. Artie Burns, Burns gets torched nearly every time he steps on the field. Wasted 1st round pick.

6. Dan McCullers. How can someone his size disappear so often when they take the field?

7. Ramon Foster. Sounds like he's going to price himself out of Pittsburgh. Plus B.J. Finney is waiting in the wings and will be a solid replacement.

Now here's some I want gone but could go either way.

1. DHB. He used to be a special team standout. Not so much anymore. And he's an empty jersey when he lines up on offense.

2. Joshua Dobbs. He doesn't have NFL stuff. Poor mechanics and poor delivery and worse accuracy. One surprise pass against the Ravens and a productive pre season game when neither team gave a shit ( game 4 Panthers) doesn't add up to NFL backup to me. With a capable backup qb we likely come out of Oakland with a W.

3. Sean Davis. Misses too many tackles and has zero ball skills. Our safety play may be the NFL's worst.

4. Morgan Burnett. I say this with slight reluctance because he played his best game as a Steeler yesterday. But still his season as a whole sucked. Don't think there's much left in this tank.

Discuss.

[Edman]

I refuse to start smashing on Steelers players until I see the Steelers coaching staff held accountable. The only guy I think legitimately blows on that list is Dan McCullers and probably Ridley. Everyone else is fine.

Until the coaching improves beyond "fucking awful" on this team, blaming the players is useless. Mike Munchak and RB coach Saxon are the only coaches worth a damn on the Steelers.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think McCullers was on a 1 year deal and he hasnt shown much. I too think Foster is passed over for some younger guys inside. Ridley, I still question why keep him on the 53 if you dont hand the football to him at all. IMO, Toussaint was a better special team player.

Dobbs will stay, but gets beat out by Rudolph for the #2 spot next season. Davis will stay as he actually had a good season at FS. Burnett, maybe they reach a settlement or maybe they keep him for vet insurance, as he played OK yesterday but hasnt most of the season. Gilbert, I think will still be back another year if healthy, as Feiler really isnt that good a RT and Okorafor isnt ready yet.

The #3 TE and #6WR are always likely replacement candidates, although DHB can play till he is 50 if Tomlin is head coach.

[zulater]

I think McCullers was on a 1 year deal and he hasnt shown much. I too think Foster is passed over for some younger guys inside. Ridley, I still question why keep him on the 53 if you dont hand the football to him at all. IMO, Toussaint was a better special team player.

Dobbs will stay, but gets beat out by Rudolph for the #2 spot next season. Davis will stay as he actually had a good season at FS. Burnett, maybe they reach a settlement or maybe they keep him for vet insurance, as he played OK yesterday but hasnt most of the season. Gilbert, I think will still be back another year if healthy, as Feiler really isnt that good a RT and Okorafor isnt ready yet.

The #3 TE and #6WR are always likely replacement candidates, although DHB can play till he is 50 if Tomlin is head coach.

Disagree strongly about Davis. I think Pro football focus has him rated near the bottom among all safeties. Yesterday he missed several tackles that could have made a difference. One interception all season isn't doing the job when you're a free safety. Also having trouble forgiving him for his bull in china shop destruction of Joe Haden in the end zone against the Chargers.

[steelcityboyz]

Add Dupree to the list .. Almost getting to the QB all season doesn't cut it in the NFL. He's had enough time to prove he's a quality player which he has failed at miserably.

[Michael]

When they Steelers pack their locker room up these are some of the players I expect and in certain cases hope to never see in a Steeler uni again.

1. Steve Ridley. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 80 yards on 29 carries! 2 fumbles!

2. Xavier Grimble. His decision to truck the safety instead of concentrating on ball security is one of the things that headed the Steelers down the road to ruin.

3. Justin Hunter. Never got on the same page as Ben.

4. Marcus Gilbert. Makes too much money to miss that many games. Can and has been cost effectively replaced.

5. Artie Burns, Burns gets torched nearly every time he steps on the field. Wasted 1st round pick.

6. Dan McCullers. How can someone his size disappear so often when they take the field?

7. Ramon Foster. Sounds like he's going to price himself out of Pittsburgh. Plus B.J. Finney is waiting in the wings and will be a solid replacement.

Now here's some I want gone but could go either way.

1. DHB. He used to be a special team standout. Not so much anymore. And he's an empty jersey when he lines up on offense.

2. Joshua Dobbs. He doesn't have NFL stuff. Poor mechanics and poor delivery and worse accuracy. One surprise pass against the Ravens and a productive pre season game when neither team gave a shit ( game 4 Panthers) doesn't add up to NFL backup to me. With a capable backup qb we likely come out of Oakland with a W.

3. Sean Davis. Misses too many tackles and has zero ball skills. Our safety play may be the NFL's worst.

4. Morgan Burnett. I say this with slight reluctance because he played his best game as a Steeler yesterday. But still his season as a whole sucked. Don't think there's much left in this tank.

Discuss.


I am back to posting after about an 8 year absence of posting so my first reply will be short. . Zu as you are admirably called your posts are excellent please keep doing what your doing only more frequently. This is a critical off season coming . Many of us know what must be done and the herein changes recommended by Zu are spot on. To establish intensity ranking I would move the termination of Artie Burns as the number one PLAYER move . The organization has to honest with themselves they made a mistake with the track man/ non football player. I want to see some capability and honesty Quit the politics.

Zu what impressed me most in your recent post is the technical awareness you have of Joshua Dobbs, "poor mechanics and poor delivery". I saw this the first time i viewed his videos when he was drafted. My question is how could Colbert & Tomlin not see this. I love the guys intelligence, articulation skills and his overall personality . Young man get on with your "life's work'. Your going to be great but not as an NFL QB IMO.

Most all of you on this forum know what the real number problem is. Continue to speak up. Blier has, Harrison has, Bradshaw has, I am done defending the Cheer Leader. Art Rooney Jr. your they key man and your clear thinking and courage is required. There are so many of you I look forward to replying to with the common interest of maintaining the great Steeler Legacy and lets not let the BS diminish what so many great players & coaches & of course Dan Rooney built. I want to be believe "The Flow " has been broken. The BS is not working any more.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Disagree strongly about Davis. I think Pro football focus has him rated near the bottom among all safeties. Yesterday he missed several tackles that could have made a difference. One interception all season isn't doing the job when you're a free safety. Also having trouble forgiving him for his bull in china shop destruction of Joe Haden in the end zone against the Chargers.

PFF has him rated #25 in the NFL, Above Average, 74.5 grade. https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/sean-davis/10692

You are having trouble forgiving a NFL safety for making a full speed attack of the football in the air and accidentally hitting a teammate? That is somewhat sad.

[zulater]

PFF has him rated #25 in the NFL, Above Average, 74.5 grade. https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/sean-davis/10692

You are having trouble forgiving a NFL safety for making a full speed attack of the football in the air and accidentally hitting a teammate? That is somewhat sad.

He was out of control on that play which is often the case with him. The thing is if instead of stupidly hitting his own man he had hit the intended receiver instead it still would have been a bad result because he hit Haden in the head - neck area. Which translate to a defensive penalty.

He's had a few decent moments but not nearly enough. I imagine he gets one more season to prove his value.

His ceiling is 'just a guy' imo. I want a playmaker at that position. Too bad the Steelers didn't do what Ben tried to steer them to do and sign Eric Weddle when he was a free agent.

[Born2Steel]

This is an interesting discussion to me. I thought that our safety play overall improved over last season. But our CB play regressed a lot. I am not impressed with Coach Bradley either way. The secondary was not good last season but showed promise. And moving Davis to FS was supposed to be a fix to a consistent problem. This season, the secondary regressed and was worse than last season. Is this a coaching issue or is the talent simply not there. That seems to be the real debate. I'm not one to fire coaches after only one season but i think Bradley may need a closer look at to see if he should return.

Burns regressed the most. Sutton and Hilton were less than effective most of the time this year. Burnett was injured/pointless. Davis was better than last season, IMO, but still not up to the level we need him. Which will be easier to fix? Replacing players or replacing a position coach? Which is needed? I see a lot of DBs getting looked at this offseason.

[st33lersguy]

I'd say rescind Bud Dupree's option. He has been useless his 4 years here and I think it is safe to say he'll never make an impact on the league. Chickillo too, the guy gets tossed like a rag doll (I know the depth then will be extremely thin, but fortunately there will be a whole slew of OLBs available for the Steelers to try and better the position and fill out depth) he has made no impact. Ex-Patriot RB can go too, 2nd time the Steelers have been burned by an ex-Patriot RB. Justin Hunter is useless, he can go as is Dan McCullers. Morgan Burnett is the perfect example of how free agency can be a crapshoot just like the draft. His best days are behind him, he can go. Also dump Xavier Grimble and promote Bucky Hodges, Hodges was the better TE in training camp anyway

- - - Updated - - -


Disagree strongly about Davis. I think Pro football focus has him rated near the bottom among all safeties. Yesterday he missed several tackles that could have made a difference. One interception all season isn't doing the job when you're a free safety. Also having trouble forgiving him for his bull in china shop destruction of Joe Haden in the end zone against the Chargers.

Davis was a sieve yesterday, arguably had the worst performance yesterday (and that's saying a lot)

[86WARD]

There’s not a player on the backend. Of the Steelers Defense that shouldn’t be replaced. 4, maybe 5 starting NFL players is all that is on that defense.

[Born2Steel]

There’s not a player on the backend. Of the Steelers Defense that shouldn’t be replaced. 4, maybe 5 starting NFL players is all that is on that defense.

Let's say this comment is true. If it's a talent problem, why compound that with a whole new group of coaches? It's either a talent problem or a coaching problem. Rarely is it both.

[Shoes]

The only ones I'd keep on the list would be Davis and Dobbs, as far as I'm concerned you could put Tomlin and his sidekicks Porter, Butler and Smith out with the rest of the trash.

[zulater]

There’s not a player on the backend. Of the Steelers Defense that shouldn’t be replaced. 4, maybe 5 starting NFL players is all that is on that defense.

Let's see. Hargrove, Heyward, Tuitt, Watt, and Hayden. Yep, you nailed it. 5.

[ALLD]

Not to mention everybody on this board scored just as many TDs as Le'Veon Bell this season.

[AtlantaDan]

When they Steelers pack their locker room up these are some of the players I expect and in certain cases hope to never see in a Steeler uni again.

1. Steve Ridley. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 80 yards on 29 carries! 2 fumbles!

P-G reporter Ray Fittipaldo has some thoughts on Mr Ridley, in addition to other observations on the coaching, in a salty online chat today :chuckle:

Ridley has had a fumbling problem for years. That's what makes that decision inexcusable. Tomlin has these pet projects like Ridley. He was on the street last December before the Steelers signed him. And yet they brought him back and he ends up costing them the game and perhaps the playoffs. Enough of these pet projects.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/24/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-12-24-18/stories/201812240078

[st33lersguy]

P-G reporter Ray Fittipaldo has some thoughts on Mr Ridley, in addition to other observations on the coaching, in a salty online chat today :chuckle:

Ridley has had a fumbling problem for years. That's what makes that decision inexcusable. Tomlin has these pet projects like Ridley. He was on the street last December before the Steelers signed him. And yet they brought him back and he ends up costing them the game and perhaps the playoffs. Enough of these pet projects.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/24/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-12-24-18/stories/201812240078



Wasn't he brought on to solely beat the Patriots a 2nd time? Because Tomlin was too busy thinking about a rematch with the Patriots to focus on anyone else?

[pepsyman1]

I think your list is a good assessment. I don't have a problem with holding on to Dobbs. I don't hold the Raiders game against him. I don't think the play calling helped him in any way. I liked the progress he showed in the preseason and honestly feel much better with the idea of him starting as a back up than Landry Jones who was effectively useless. I think he's got a good head on his shoulders. He keeps his eyes downfield even when he's running. If I had to go into a game with him I would expect he'd hold up his end.

I'd add Dupree to the list. He was better this year but that's not saying much considering what's he's shown up to this point. Why pay the money for mediocre? We could pay someone else less to get equal performance.

Please add most of the defensive staff and Danny Smith to your list. lol

[86WARD]

Let's say this comment is true. If it's a talent problem, why compound that with a whole new group of coaches? It's either a talent problem or a coaching problem. Rarely is it both.

Great players can cover up average coaching and great coaching can cover up average players. I don’t see either of these happening within that group of players. Look at the O-Line for example...great coaching turned that line from trash to one of the best in the league. Hubbard, Feiler, etc. look like seasoned veterans with Munchak coaching them. They are average talents at best.

This could be a case where neither the talent nor the coaching is up to par.

[Born2Steel]

Great players can cover up average coaching and great coaching can cover up average players. I don’t see either of these happening within that group of players. Look at the O-Line for example...great coaching turned that line from trash to one of the best in the league. Hubbard, Feiler, etc. look like seasoned veterans with Munchak coaching them. They are average talents at best.

This could be a case where neither the talent nor the coaching is up to par.

Maybe. For the sake of discussion let's say you are correct and both the coaches and the talent is subpar. If the rest of what you say is also true, replacing with better talent is the logical approach. You describe the OL backups as average talent, but the starting OL certainly is not average talent.

[86WARD]

Maybe. For the sake of discussion let's say you are correct and both the coaches and the talent is subpar. If the rest of what you say is also true, replacing with better talent is the logical approach. You describe the OL backups as average talent, but the starting OL certainly is not average talent.

Before Munchak was hired, that O-Line was less than average. They were pretty bad...point is, Munchak is a great coach that has gotten the best out of his unit...far more than any other coach on the team.

I don’t think replacing 3-5 guys is more logical...replacing Bradley and Butler, imo, is the more logical approach based on numbers and salary cap, then see what you have after that. If the Steelers replace all the talent on the O-Line before Munchak arrived, I don’t think anyone would think they’d be where they are today...who know where they would be. AV certainly wasn’t a Pro Bowl talent until Munchak got ahold of him. That unit of Beachum, Foster, Pouncey, DeCastro, Gilbert was a mess in 2013 and early 2014.

[Born2Steel]

Before Munchak was hired, that O-Line was less than average. They were pretty bad...point is, Munchak is a great coach that has gotten the best out of his unit...far more than any other coach on the team.

I don’t think replacing 3-5 guys is more logical...replacing Bradley and Butler, imo, is the more logical approach based on numbers and salary cap, then see what you have after that. If the Steelers replace all the talent on the O-Line before Munchak arrived, I don’t think anyone would think they’d be where they are today...who know where they would be. AV certainly wasn’t a Pro Bowl talent until Munchak got ahold of him. That unit of Beachum, Foster, Pouncey, DeCastro, Gilbert was a mess in 2013 and early 2014.

They may have played below average, but their talent level was and is above average. Is Munch a great OL coach? Yes he is. That does not equate to the OL had below average talent before he got there.

If you are just looking to debate then let's talk talent level vs coaching across all the defensive positions. The "communication" issues were in the secondary, the talent regressed from last year. Coach needs replaced, IMO. Talent at ILB, replace the talent and keep the coach. Must have good LBs in a 3-4, no coach can succeed without them. OLB, keep both, IMO. DL, keep both, IMO. The DC needs more from the secondary and the ILBs. By my assessment of this defense, a new secondary coach and a in his prime Timmons level ILB improves this defense drastically.

Replacing 3-5 guys may include a SS that can stay on the field. An outside CB that can play opposite Haden and do his job consistently. A sideline to sideline ILB that plays the run and the pass with equal skill. Perhaps an upgrade for Davis if one presents itself. Other than that I think this is a pretty good defense. If you are of the mind, as some on here, that blowing it up and starting anew is the answer, then I will listen with an open mind. Present your case.

[86WARD]

They may have played below average, but their talent level was and is above average. Is Munch a great OL coach? Yes he is. That does not equate to the OL had below average talent before he got there.

If you are just looking to debate then let's talk talent level vs coaching across all the defensive positions. The "communication" issues were in the secondary, the talent regressed from last year. Coach needs replaced, IMO. Talent at ILB, replace the talent and keep the coach. Must have good LBs in a 3-4, no coach can succeed without them. OLB, keep both, IMO. DL, keep both, IMO. The DC needs more from the secondary and the ILBs. By my assessment of this defense, a new secondary coach and a in his prime Timmons level ILB improves this defense drastically.

Replacing 3-5 guys may include a SS that can stay on the field. An outside CB that can play opposite Haden and do his job consistently. A sideline to sideline ILB that plays the run and the pass with equal skill. Perhaps an upgrade for Davis if one presents itself. Other than that I think this is a pretty good defense. If you are of the mind, as some on here, that blowing it up and starting anew is the answer, then I will listen with an open mind. Present your case.

You could say a lot of players play below average and that’s where a coach elevates that level and a coach with average coaching skills can be elevated by good players. It’s pretty much a fact. A good coach will get the absolute best out of their players where a poor coach will not.

IMO, there are really only 5 players on defense worthy of keeping. Haden, Watt, Hargrave, Heyward L, Tuitt. If you want to add a solid corner or number one corner across from Haden and a Lawrence Timmons ILB...yes, that will drastically improve the defense. The coaching however is subpar on that side of the ball. Bradley, Peezy and Butler have shown to be subpar. Can better players improve them? Maybe. Can better coaches improve what they currently have? Maybe. Can a combination of them both improve the defense? Maybe.

Thing is there isn’t a solid 100% correct answer until action is taken. something needs to be fixed and I’m not sure we aren’t debating from the same side.

[Born2Steel]

You could say a lot of players play below average and that’s where a coach elevates that level and a coach with average coaching skills can be elevated by good players. It’s pretty much a fact. A good coach will get the absolute best out of their players where a poor coach will not.

IMO, there are really only 5 players on defense worthy of keeping. Haden, Watt, Hargrave, Heyward L, Tuitt. If you want to add a solid corner or number one corner across from Haden and a Lawrence Timmons ILB...yes, that will drastically improve the defense. The coaching however is subpar on that side of the ball. Bradley, Peezy and Butler have shown to be subpar. Can better players improve them? Maybe. Can better coaches improve what they currently have? Maybe. Can a combination of them both improve the defense? Maybe.

Thing is there isn’t a solid 100% correct answer until action is taken. something needs to be fixed and I’m not sure we aren’t debating from the same side.

Maybe. But replacing coaches AND players is not fixing a problem. That is hoping that a reboot will yield better results than what you have. It's a shot in the dark at best. The Browns and the Rams are perfect examples of how good players can succeed in the right system. I don't see this defense as a failure so much as missing some pieces. The front of this defense is playing well. Being coached well. The secondary as a unit has regressed considerably. That falls to coaching. The ILBs are simply below the talent level needed. That falls to players. If you believe the talent at ILB is fine then that too would fall on the coaching. I only see 1 position coach that needs to be replaced and 1 position coach that I'm on the fence about. Rebooting this defense would be a mistake, IMO.

[zulater]

Anyone else notice Grimble finally gets a chance to make another play against the Bengals in the season finale, I think it was his first catch since his infamous fumble into the ez at Denver. Makes a nice catch and converts an important 3rd or 4th down, runs for 16 yards I think. But again carries the ball in the wrong arm! :doh: I'm sure the coaches have addressed this with him. Guess it's just so ingrained that he can't change his ways.