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View Full Version : Who's most to blame for Steelers perilous playoff predicament?



zulater
12-23-2018, 09:28 AM
I put it equally on Tomlin, Boswell and Butler . Tomin for his mismanagement of Ben and the clock against the Raiders. In the end that's the game that put us in this situation. Yes there were other games we could have and should have won, but that game more than any other stands out to me as the absolute one you couldn't let get away.

And then of course there's Boswell. If he nails the OT should have been game winner in the season opener we would be sitting fine right now. And then of course his 2 misses in Oakland for obvious reasons and even the missed xp against the Chargers influenced the way the rest of the game was played.

Keith Butler. As bad as Tomlin coached against the Raiders Butler was worse. 4th and 6 and you don't bring any pressure against Carr? His defense rarely gets off the field when it matters most. Give him much of the blame for allowing game winning come back drives by the Chargers and Raiders. Yes there's a lack of talent. But the constant breakdowns and lack of communication falls largely on him.



Dishonorable mentions.

Big Ben for throwing too many interceptions. Could place a lot of the blame for the Denver loss on him.

Refs. For gifting the Chargers two touchdowns. Also fumbled punt non call against the Browns . Get that call right very little chance Browns come back ever happens.

Sean Davis. For lack of big plays throughout the season. But more to the point about the only notable pass defense he had to his credit this season was when he blindly leveled Joe Haden out of an interception that likely would have sealed a win against the Chargers. Think about it. Get that interception and the Steelers have the ball first and 10 at their own 20. 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter up 23-7.

Feel free to add your own.

Mojouw
12-23-2018, 10:05 AM
No turnovers on defense. They are minus double digits in turnovers. Simply too hard to consistently beat teams giving them multiple extra possessions.

For the Ben Raiders thing. It was damned if you do and Ben goes down for the season on a second hit. Damned if you don’t and lose. Steelers almost threaded that needle. I’ll give them a slight pass.

teegre
12-23-2018, 10:15 AM
I am thankful for John Harbaugh for pissing away an early-season division lead by losing to the Bengals & Browns in back-to-back weeks... keeping the Steelers in the race for the division crown.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-23-2018, 10:16 AM
I still maintain that if the Steelers didn't abandon the run game vs Denver or Chargers, they have one more win(possibly 2) and are firmly in control of division.

st33lersguy
12-23-2018, 10:32 AM
A lot of factors have contributed. From Fichtner abandoning the run too quickly on far too many times to Ben being a turnover machine to a defensive backfield that can't cover, to Keith Butler's incompetence, to Danny Smith's incompetence, and to defensive position coaches complete inabilities to coach up players.

However, the person most to blame starts at the top with Tomlin. He has created a culture of complacency, a culture where players believe they can piss around and still have star players bail out the team in the end, it started last year with numerous wins against garbage and mediocre teams and instead of learn from the embarrassing playoff loss, it's continued. Tomlin who can't challenge a play to save his life or manage a clock correctly and whose players are so ill-prepared some of the time that they don't have the proper cleats. I'm really starting to think Bradshaw was correct when he called Tomlin a glorified cheerleader. He's the AFC's Mike McCarthy, the NFL's Dan Bylsma. I wouldn't be surprised if he took more time to come up with the X-ray excuse for mismanaging the Ben situation in Oakland than he took in actually preparing for Oakland. And I would be surprised if Tomlin didn't sit back and have the guy he brought in prepare the defense to stuff New England.

P.S.: I hope anyone who picks the refs has never made fun of Seawhiner fans for bitching about the refs

AtlantaDan
12-23-2018, 10:34 AM
No turnovers on defense. They are minus double digits in turnovers. Simply too hard to consistently beat teams giving them multiple extra possessions.

For the Ben Raiders thing. It was damned if you do and Ben goes down for the season on a second hit. Damned if you don’t and lose. Steelers almost threaded that needle. I’ll give them a slight pass.

Agreed on the turnovers but interesting that the Ravens are tied with Steelers in generating turnovers with 14 (which includes the Ravens INT to start the game and fumble run back that ended it last night). Sometimes you just have to generate three and outs so the offense is not always starting drives inside the 30

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/turnovers.html

The Ben INTs ( particularly in the red zone) hurt but I attribute the current predicament mostly to Boswell, Fichtner abandoning the run in some games, and the defense being unable to get off the field (notably in Chargers second half & Raiders 4th quarter. That last problem goes back to the Burnett signing flaming out, the ILBs being unable to handle pass coverage, and failing to develop a competent CB opposite Haden

And that in turn leads back to the personnel selected by Colbert & Tomlin to execute the flawed schemes of Tomlin & Butler.

Missing the playoffs presumably will lead to heads rolling with regard to defensive coaches.

Shoes
12-23-2018, 11:08 AM
FO, Coaches and Players, they are all knee deep in the s**t. If I'm Rooney heads will roll at the end of the season with no head safe. There are issues that carry over year after year and come back to haunt this team, surgery is needed.

cubanstogie
12-23-2018, 11:28 AM
too much blame to go around. Its hard to fault Ben for pics because without him we would be at bottom of division. You take the good with the bad, lets face it he's always going to be at risk for pics. I would say Boz is the main reason. If we had Tucker this year the division would be locked up by now. But thats like saying if we had Belicheat as HC we would have it locked up as well. They are both #1 at their profession. Boz has underperformed more than anyone , and he doesn't have a back up like Artie has so we are stuck unless Tomlin cuts him. I mean a few of his crucial misses like Browns or Raiders were only 40-45 yard field goals.

Fire Goodell
12-23-2018, 12:00 PM
Tomlin and Boswell. Seriously I don't care what our record is vs the Raiders in away games, if you lose to a 2-10 team something is just not right

Bos for obvious reasons, he was paid to keep up that high level of play which he totally failed at

zulater
12-23-2018, 12:03 PM
A lot of factors have contributed. From Fichtner abandoning the run too quickly on far too many times to Ben being a turnover machine to a defensive backfield that can't cover, to Keith Butler's incompetence, to Danny Smith's incompetence, and to defensive position coaches complete inabilities to coach up players.

However, the person most to blame starts at the top with Tomlin. He has created a culture of complacency, a culture where players believe they can piss around and still have star players bail out the team in the end, it started last year with numerous wins against garbage and mediocre teams and instead of learn from the embarrassing playoff loss, it's continued. Tomlin who can't challenge a play to save his life or manage a clock correctly and whose players are so ill-prepared some of the time that they don't have the proper cleats. I'm really starting to think Bradshaw was correct when he called Tomlin a glorified cheerleader. He's the AFC's Mike McCarthy, the NFL's Dan Bylsma. I wouldn't be surprised if he took more time to come up with the X-ray excuse for mismanaging the Ben situation in Oakland than he took in actually preparing for Oakland. And I would be surprised if Tomlin didn't sit back and have the guy he brought in prepare the defense to stuff New England.

P.S.: I hope anyone who picks the refs has never made fun of Seawhiner fans for bitching about the refs


I don't use the refs as an excuse often, and I don't think they play favorites. I think they are randomly bad and sometimes you benefit and sometimes you wear it based on bad calls. That said I think there were two games where they absolutely influenced results negatively against us where undoubtedly the wrong call or non call influenced the game. The missed facemask fumble against the Browns and the two horrific non calls in the Chargers game where they were gifted touchdowns on plays where obvious penalties occurred that would have wiped away the TD. 14 points is a lot to give away through incompetence.

That said I voted Tomlin as the biggest negative factor this season.


And oh yeah. As far as the Seawhiners go. Every call they complain about from SB 40 was entirely defensible upon review. That was a clear push off in the end zone against Hope and they offensive lineman did in fact rope the Steeler DL ( forget his name, think it was #54) around the neck on the two most contraversial calls. I blame the perception of unfair refereeing of that game on John Madden who painted it that way on calls that were correctly made. Everyone just parroted that asshole afterwards.

Shoes
12-23-2018, 12:06 PM
I don't use the refs as an excuse often, and I don't think they play favorites. I think they are randomly bad and sometimes you benefit and sometimes you wear it based on bad calls. That said I think there were two games where they absolutely influenced results negatively against us where undoubtedly the wrong call or non call influenced the game. The missed facemask fumble against the Browns and the two horrific non calls in the Chargers game where they were gifted touchdowns on plays where obvious penalties occurred that would have wiped away the TD. 14 points is a lot to give away through incompetence.

That said I voted Tomlin as the biggest negative factor this season.


And oh yeah. As far as the Seawhiners go. Every call they complain about from SB 40 was entirely defensible upon review. That was a clear push off in the end zone against Hope and they offensive lineman did in fact rope the Steeler DL ( forget his name, think it was #54) around the neck on the two most contraversial calls. I blame the perception of unfair refereeing of that game on John Madden who painted it that way on calls that were correctly made. Everyone just parroted that asshole afterwards.

Good to see you Zu!

Edman
12-23-2018, 12:20 PM
Mike Tomlin.

Everything we're seeing this year is par for the course of what we expect from him. This season, and especially his abortion in the Raiders game, sold me on where he is as a coach and where this team is headed if he stays. Mike tomlin is great emotional leader, but he can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag, and he won't take this team anywhere.

This team is in big trouble once Ben retires and he's let to stay. The Steelers won't "fire" Tomlin, but they will definitely let him go after 2020 (hopefully).

Fire Goodell
12-23-2018, 12:22 PM
Mike Tomlin.

Everything we're seeing this year is par for the course of what we expect from him.

Yeah him pulling Ben in Oakland was his trademark complacency / hubris that gets us in trouble vs teams we have no business losing to

W&M_Steeler
12-23-2018, 12:31 PM
Xavier Grimble should receive at least an honorable mention in this thread. Had he simply scored the touchdown in the Broncos game instead of trying (and miserably failing) to truck the safety, the Steelers probably win that game.

I think the Grimble fumble and the Davis hit on Haden that turned the interception into a Chargers TD are the two biggest plays in the second half of this season. They very well might keep the Steelers out of the playoffs.

Edman
12-23-2018, 12:34 PM
Yeah him pulling Ben in Oakland was his trademark complacency / hubris that gets us in trouble vs teams we have no business losing to

It wasn't even that. It was the aftermath after Ben was pulled that convinced me that this team was fucked. The playcalling and game management fell off a cliff. It's like Ben was the glue holding everything together.

Ben is the head coach and the quarterback now. Mike Tomlin is just a figurehead and a puppet.

ALLD
12-23-2018, 05:25 PM
Steelers need a coaching change. One that holds the players accountable. Steelers have about 25 mins left in their season to keep the playoff hopes alive. Defense is not good enough and coaching is subpar at best. STs again is a bad squad. They finally got the OL together after several years of mediocrity and Ben getting killed.

I would keep Munch and flip a coin on the rest with D & STs must be gones.

Lady Steel
12-23-2018, 05:26 PM
I voted Tomlin. The guy just isn't cuttin' it and hasn't been for quite some time.

GBMelBlount
12-23-2018, 06:53 PM
F. All of the above. Ben is included imo for seeming to only show up for tough games when the underdog or the season is on the line.

steelreserve
12-23-2018, 07:12 PM
At some point, everything is a reflection on the coach and the front office.

We won a championship 10 years ago, and since then it's been "almost good enough." But we haven't exactly been frontrunners during that time, more like "might make the conference championship game if they're really lucky."

Just pretty good. Talented but without focus or a killer instinct. The best teams come in to every season saying "our goal EVERY year is to win the Super Bowl," and you believe it. That's not this team. A handful of elite players every year, but no longer with the drive or focus to be an elite franchise. That starts at the top, and not just Tomlin, but probably at the ownership level too.

Games like this, to an "elite" franchise, are a showdown of monumental importance. It didn't feel like that. But actually, even being in the situation where the season hinged on this game was not an elite franchise move. This joke of a division should've been wrapped up long ago. We just didn't have what it took. And that, as the sum total of a decade of effort and planning, is just a totally unacceptable result.

Neversatisfied
12-23-2018, 07:14 PM
Under NO circumstance should Mike Tomlin have a job following nexts weeks game against the Bengals. I dont care if they fire him or he steps down, Tomlin has rested on a Superbowl win 10 years ago with a team he had no hand in Building

Craic
12-23-2018, 07:20 PM
Why isn't there an option for everyone?

fansince'76
12-23-2018, 07:21 PM
Starts at the top. However, I think Tomlin gets another year, but is given an ultimatum to clean house as far as a number of his assistants are concerned like Rooney gave Noll back in 1988. At least that's what I'm hoping.

pczach
12-23-2018, 07:26 PM
Starts at the top. However, I think Tomlin gets another year, but is given an ultimatum to clean house as far as a number of his assistants are concerned like Rooney gave Noll back in 1988. At least that's what I'm hoping.


I think Fichtner has done a pretty good job with only one season under his belt and the star RB AWOL all year.

After that, nothing would be out of the question. Some of the decisions made on the defensive side of the ball are mystifying.

fansince'76
12-23-2018, 07:27 PM
I think Fichtner has done a pretty good job with only one season under his belt and the star RB AWOL all year.

After that, nothing would be out of the question. Some of the decisions made on the defensive side of the ball are mystifying.

Agreed. I'm thinking DC and STs.

Another boneheaded move today by taking the pressure off Brees on 3rd-and-20 when bringing the heat was largely effective. Predictably, Brees completes a 25-yard pass. 1st-and-goal at the 8-yard line.

tube517
12-23-2018, 07:35 PM
Agreed. I'm thinking DC and STs.

Another boneheaded move today by taking the pressure off Brees on 3rd-and-20 when bringing the heat was largely effective. Predictably, Brees completes a 25-yard pass. 1st-and-goal at the 8-yard line.

Where was the defense on that? It's plays like that where Butlin piss me off.

EzraTank
12-23-2018, 07:58 PM
Tomlin. End of discussion.

Fire Goodell
12-23-2018, 07:59 PM
Tomlin is the Kordell Stewart of NFL coaches

Neversatisfied
12-23-2018, 08:13 PM
Tomlin is the Kordell Stewart of NFL coaches

This made me feel better....but just for a minute.

lipps83
12-23-2018, 08:14 PM
Agreed. I'm thinking DC and STs.

Another boneheaded move today by taking the pressure off Brees on 3rd-and-20 when bringing the heat was largely effective. Predictably, Brees completes a 25-yard pass. 1st-and-goal at the 8-yard line.

3 and longs are almost a guaranteed first down against a LeButler defense. When the defense is in 3rd and long I usually take a break from watching and do something else real quick because I know how it will end and I am usually right.

GBMelBlount
12-23-2018, 08:20 PM
Why isn't there an option for everyone?

that is option F.


GBmelAlloftheAboveBlount

F. All of the above. Ben is included imo for seeming to only show up for tough games when the underdog or the season is on the line.

86WARD
12-23-2018, 08:54 PM
Simple. Coaching. It’s been horrendous in all facets this year.

j-d-s
12-23-2018, 08:56 PM
The loss in New Orleans is solely on the refs who gifted the Saints 7 points with that imaginary pass interference on Haden on 4th down.

Shoes
12-23-2018, 08:58 PM
The loss in New Orleans is solely on the refs who gifted the Saints 7 points with that imaginary pass interference on Haden on 4th down.

Mike Tomlin likes this post. :chuckle:

Steeldude
12-23-2018, 09:23 PM
Tomlin.

Tomlin will be retained and it will be the same result.

zulater
12-23-2018, 09:23 PM
F. All of the above. Ben is included imo for seeming to only show up for tough games when the underdog or the season is on the line.

Yeah get rid of Ben and enjoy those 5-11 seasons/

FrancoLambert
12-23-2018, 09:24 PM
I
Starts at the top. However, I think Tomlin gets another year, but is given an ultimatum to clean house as far as a number of his assistants are concerned like Rooney gave Noll back in 1988. At least that's what I'm hoping.

That’s the way I see it too. The head coach is ultimately responsible.
Don’t think Rooney will make a change after this season, but Tomlin is getting close to moving on.
”Coach, we want you to keep Munchak but we want you to replace your other assistants.”
Now, that’s a vote of confidence.

JayC
12-23-2018, 09:26 PM
Tomlin sucks at coaching. He is more of a cheerleader, just like Bradshaw said years ago. He is to blame for this collapse more than anyone else. If I ran the team, he would be fired next Monday.

zulater
12-23-2018, 09:34 PM
3rd and 2 at Saints 34. Up 4 points. Ben is on fire having led the Steelers on 2 consecutive touchdown drives previously. And you give the ball to Ridley! Really? Didn't you understand the importance of that play? Ridley all of 2 carries and 3 yards! You thought that was your best path to close things out? Damn!

Shoes
12-23-2018, 09:38 PM
3rd and 2 at Saints 34. Up 4 points. Ben is on fire having led the Steelers on 2 consecutive touchdown drives previously. And you give the ball to Ridley! Really? Didn't you understand the importance of that play? Ridley all of 2 carries and 3 yards! You thought that was your best path to close things out? Damn!

yep, mindboggling

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-23-2018, 09:56 PM
3rd and 2 at Saints 34. Up 4 points. Ben is on fire having led the Steelers on 2 consecutive touchdown drives previously. And you give the ball to Ridley! Really? Didn't you understand the importance of that play? Ridley all of 2 carries and 3 yards! You thought that was your best path to close things out? Damn!

How about the 2nd drive? 3rd down and 1 from the Saints 30 and a pass to AB for -1 yard??

Fichtner is Bruce Arians lite.

zulater
12-23-2018, 10:00 PM
How about the 2nd drive? 3rd down and 1 from the Saints 30 and a pass to AB for -1 yard??

Fichtner is Bruce Arians lite.

What bothered me on that play was running it from an empty back set. I'm not saying you have to run the ball but at least make them defend the possibility!

Shoes
12-23-2018, 10:00 PM
Well AJR II was rubbing his face after a September loss which makes one wonder what he's rubbing now. :chuckle:


https://mobile.twitter.com/C_AdamskiTrib/status/1046613211825537027?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Godfather
12-23-2018, 10:02 PM
The Patriots** suck and Tom Brady is gay.

86WARD
12-23-2018, 10:02 PM
3rd and 2 at Saints 34. Up 4 points. Ben is on fire having led the Steelers on 2 consecutive touchdown drives previously. And you give the ball to Ridley! Really? Didn't you understand the importance of that play? Ridley all of 2 carries and 3 yards! You thought that was your best path to close things out? Damn!

Not to mention Ridley has been awful all season with the exception of one nice run against the Patriots.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-23-2018, 10:04 PM
What bothered me on that play was running it from an empty back set. I'm not saying you have to run the ball but at least make them defend the possibility!

So true, the D linemen just have to come off in pass rush mode and not even fear staying in a rush lane for a draw and the Linebackers either just come on the blitz or get into coverage. No question what is going to happen...its a pass on 3rd and 1.

Its seriously Arians crap all over again.

pepsyman1
12-23-2018, 10:14 PM
Tomlin gets my vote. I think Butler has largely been a failed experiment but THAT is Tomlin's responsibility. The defensive coaching hasn't gotten it done in the last 5 years but there haven't been any significant changes to fix it. It's the same old approach with a little bit of touch up paint. As much as I get frustrated when Ben throws a pic or gets sacked from holding the ball too long, I think it's far outweighed but the clutch plays he creates out of thin air. Even this year he's got 16 interceptions vs 33 TDs and 64% complete and they're the 4th highest scoring team in the league this year (and the defense didn't have a slew of scores to help). At the beginning of the year, if we were told we'd average 28 points a game on offense, I think all of us would expect a great overall year. Tomlin needs to can Butler and make better use of the defensive talent we've got. If he doesn't do that, he should be canned as well.

Lady Steel
12-23-2018, 10:20 PM
The Patriots** suck and Tom Brady is gay.

Best post of the day! :lol:

Six Rings
12-25-2018, 04:15 PM
F. All of the above. Ben is included imo for seeming to only show up for tough games when the underdog or the season is on the line.



After thinking about it, I'm going for a choice not presented. In fact, I created a new thread on the topic. The answer is Art Rooney, he has to fire Tomlin, and if he won't then he's the biggest obstacle for another Lombardi trophy.

GBMelBlount
12-25-2018, 05:01 PM
After thinking about it, I'm going for a choice not presented. In fact, I created a new thread on the topic. The answer is Art Rooney, he has to fire Tomlin, and if he won't then he's the biggest obstacle for another Lombardi trophy.

Great post and I feel at minimum Rooney needs to draw a line in the sand and apply pressure!

My concern with firing the head coach AND a number of coaches (which I feel needs to be done) at the same time is that if we FIRE TOMLIN and replace several coaches CHANGING TOO MUCH at one time can quickly turn a team into the Cleveland Browns...stability has been our trademak and a large reason for our long term success.

I would look at replacing Tomlin after next year if and only if there is again significant underperfromance. I think Tomlin now knows he is on the hot seat so I would give him at least one year to turn things around. Also, we might still make the playoffs and win the Superbowl. Small chance, but still.

Lastly, there were some crazy things like the refs and unbelievably bad random luck that contributed to this as well imo....not an excuse, just a mitigating factor.

GBMelBlount
12-25-2018, 05:17 PM
Gbmelblount

F. All of the above. Ben is included imo for seeming to only show up for tough games when the underdog or the season is on the line.


Zulater

Yeah get rid of Ben and enjoy those 5-11 seasons/

I doubt few would disagree with you, however it has nothing to do with this thread or my post old friend! :drink:

zulater
12-25-2018, 05:50 PM
I doubt few would disagree with you, however it has nothing to do with this thread or my post. :drink:

I get you GB. I think you could make the case for the Denver and first Cleveland game that Ben was a major culprit in the wrong result. He sucked in the first Raven game, second half in particular. But I can't think of so much as one player or coach who distinguished themselves in a positive way that game.

- - - Updated - - -

To further the case against Sean Davis. I just read in the DK site that he missed 3 tackles in the Saints game. The Steelers have had 4 individual performances this season where a defensive player missed 3 or more tackles in a game. 3 times it was Davis. He needs to bring his game up soon or be gone.

hawaiiansteeler
12-25-2018, 06:04 PM
After thinking about it, I'm going for a choice not presented. In fact, I created a new thread on the topic. The answer is Art Rooney, he has to fire Tomlin, and if he won't then he's the biggest obstacle for another Lombardi trophy.

http://m.memegen.com/oagdi8.jpg

Lady Steel
12-26-2018, 02:29 AM
Great post and I feel at minimum Rooney needs to draw a line in the sand and apply pressure!

My concern with firing the head coach AND a number of coaches (which I feel needs to be done) at the same time is that if we FIRE TOMLIN and replace several coaches CHANGING TOO MUCH at one time can quickly turn a team into the Cleveland Browns...stability has been our trademak and a large reason for our long term success.

I would look at replacing Tomlin after next year if and only if there is again significant underperfromance. I think Tomlin now knows he is on the hot seat so I would give him at least one year to turn things around. Also, we might still make the playoffs and win the Superbowl. Small chance, but still.

Lastly, there were some crazy things like the refs and unbelievably bad random luck that contributed to this as well imo....not an excuse, just a mitigating factor.

You are far more generous than I am.

No more YEARS for Tomlin for me. I'm done with him. Period.

zulater
01-01-2019, 10:42 AM
I decided in the end to blame Boswell. He's got one job to do and he blew a minimum of two games. His misses also influenced how other losses played out. Anyway make the OT kick in the season opener and you're in. Make that one and do your job in Oakland and you're 11-5 and possibly sitting with the 2 seed. Not hating on the guy. Hopefully he comes back to his old form next season. But we missed out by a razor thin margin. And the simplest answer is get those two needed fg's.

Moose
01-01-2019, 06:53 PM
My opinion is the coaching, primarily defense and special teams coaching, is mainly responsible for alot of our playoff predicament. Of course Tomlin has some fault with it also. Not counting the 1st Cleve. game tie, the loss to chargers, loss to bronco's and the loss to oakland was the ending of our season. Then the pathetic ....almost loss... to the 2nd string bungholes in the last game was the icing on the cake. If NO changes in the coaching staff are made, next year is looking scary as hell....probably worst than this year. Balt. is better, cleveland is improving......doesn't look good for us.

86WARD
01-01-2019, 08:30 PM
Coaching.

Michael
01-02-2019, 02:17 AM
Easy answer the disgusting dimwit Tomlin. I can't stand the sight & thought of this con man. Art 11 is on center stage, We will find out soon if Art chooses to rule over the collapse of a proud legacy. Mike Tomlin you are a disgrace.

Dwinsgames
01-02-2019, 10:13 AM
to answer the original question .....


The Man in Mike Tomlin's bathroom mirror