Jaylen Samuels

[EzraTank]

This guy needs his own thread after yesterday. Yes I know it's a small body of work but he's been fantastic since Conner got hurt and the other guy (won't say his name anymore) decided to ride jet skis in Miami.

Getting 142 rushing yards (172 total) against a Belichick defense is NOT and easy thing. With Conner (23) and Samuels (22) at the running back position heading into next season we can use our picks on defense and Bell/Shazier's cap space on defensive free agents.

I hope this kid can keep it up because we're going to need everyone next week in New Orleans (BTW if we win next week and the Chargers take out Baltimore we clinch the division).

The biggest difference between him and Conners right now is Conners is running "afraid" with the ball after his fumbles. You simply cannot run like that in the NFL. Conners is double clutching the ball when he gets near players instead of looking to make a move like he was earlier in the season. It's all mental and only he can fix it.

As for Samuels, listen to his post game presser ... the kid was smart enough to go down on that catch to keep the clock running! That's not something a lot of 22 year old's think about when up against the Patriots.

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1DXxyaMbEYNxM

[Dwinsgames]

some old thoughts of many of us ..... http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/28818-How-Jaylen-Samuels-Can-Help-Now

[tube517]

I hope when Conner comes back, Samuels won't become an afterthought.

[DesertSteel]

I like Samuels and I like Conner. I used to like Bell.

Moral:

#runningbacksareadimeadozen

[AtlantaDan]

I like Samuels and I like Conner. I used to like Bell.

Moral:

#runningbacksareadimeadozen

:yup:

1074454887067500547

[Edman]

The Steelers should split the workload between Conner and Samuels.


I hope when Conner comes back, Samuels won't become an afterthought.

With Ben wanting to throw the ball, AB wanting his catches, and Fichtner being Ben's best friend, I doubt we'll be seeing much of Conner and Samuels. I hope to be wrong.

[EzraTank]

some old thoughts of many of us ..... http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/28818-How-Jaylen-Samuels-Can-Help-Now

What I noticed watching that highlight video and last night is he has a very deceptive 2nd gear where it seems he can burst for speed for a few seconds. I like this kid and could see him replacing the "other" guy.

[Shoes]

Great time of the year for Samuels to get on the stage.

[Iron Steeler]

They guy is a baller... I loved when he sat on the pats bench for a breather :heh:

The guy can catch very well, maybe on par or better hands then Bell.

So far the only thing we are missing from Bell is a "patient" Running Back.

[lipps83]

The better him and Conner play, the more money Bell loses. Everyone wins (except Bell's ego). I wish the best for Bell absolutely, but I will not serve his ego.

I just hope there isn't a team out there desperate enough to pay him what he wants in the offseason. The Steelers (and Bell himself) have proven without a doubt that he is clearly not worth what he is/was demanding.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The Patriots losses vs Miami, Tennessee, Pittsburgh and Detroit all were cases where those teams had big rushing days against the Pats Defense. Looks like a simple case of "run the football, control the clock and keep the Pats offense off the field".

Also, what has been the one constant whether its Bell, Conner or Samuels in the backfield?? The Steelers O line and getting them a chance to establish the run game maybe? :rolleyes:

Samuels showed good burst to the gaps and outside, more than I recall seeing from him before. Samuels also showed a more determined attitude to keep moving his feet after contact, when running between the tackles than he has in the past. When I watched his tape and in the Senior Bowl he reminded me of a finesse guy between the tackles like Tashard Choice, but a very good receiver as a RB.

Good on him with the stats, but IMO he was the benefactor of a good O line performance and a Patriots defense that was susceptible to the run, as they have shown in the past. IMO, the Steelers could have run the football even more the way they were running at the Pats defense.

[Mojouw]

I think Samuels future is really really bright. I predict he will have an even larger contribution in 2019. While last night was great and he may play a huge role in things moving forward - think how much better year two was of both Bell and Conner. Now, imagine Samuels in year 2?

Remakes his body a bit for the NFL - gains strength and quickness.
Refines his route running and blocking - more opportunities to see the field in a diverse set of personnel groups.
Continues transition to being a RB - improved decisiveness and vision

I honestly believe those are realistic and necessary improvements for any rookie RB, particularly one that came into the league w/out a true position.

[Fire Goodell]

I think Samuels future is really really bright. I predict he will have an even larger contribution in 2019. While last night was great and he may play a huge role in things moving forward - think how much better year two was of both Bell and Conner. Now, imagine Samuels in year 2?

Remakes his body a bit for the NFL - gains strength and quickness.
Refines his route running and blocking - more opportunities to see the field in a diverse set of personnel groups.
Continues transition to being a RB - improved decisiveness and vision

I honestly believe those are realistic and necessary improvements for any rookie RB, particularly one that came into the league w/out a true position.

I think his route running is solid, he just needs to get more experience as an actual AB, running between the tackles. As a pure WR I believe he's already better than Bell and Conner, he just needs more consistency toting the rock. This week was a good step in the right direction.

In any case this draft is already looking solid. Edmunds is our starter, Washington, Okafor, and Samuels look like they can be something

[Rotorhead]

I never doubted him, the few time he came in before Conner got hurt he made some decent runs and has shown the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. He just needed to learn his blocking assignments. I feel totally comfortable with him and Conner for the next few seasons, hopefully we can use them effectively to be sure they are both rested for any possible playoff runs we make.

[st33lersguy]

James saxon is our 2nd best coach behind munchak. Also further testament to the oline

[Mojouw]

I think his route running is solid, he just needs to get more experience as an actual AB, running between the tackles. As a pure WR I believe he's already better than Bell and Conner, he just needs more consistency toting the rock. This week was a good step in the right direction.

In any case this draft is already looking solid. Edmunds is our starter, Washington, Okafor, and Samuels look like they can be something

Agree with all that. I just think he can expand on his already solid passing game skills. Learn more routes and read coverages better and can function as a WR in certain packages not just a RB out on the edge. The role Bell played before they got worried someone would explode his knees.

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James saxon is our 2nd best coach behind munchak. Also further testament to the oline

Yeah. Both can not be overlooked.

The line was ridiculous yesterday. I'm not sure any other team in the league is pulling off that toss counter. Let alone having it be a bread and butter play for at least one week.

Fichtner sometimes loses sight of it, but I think that the movement skills of this o-line are what separates it as a unit. They are better pass blockers than run blockers. And in the run game, they are not really straight ahead maulers. But if they can stand some of the front wall defenders up and then get a few o-line guys moving -- then this unit shines.

[Steeldude]

If Samuels can show that consistently I feel he will take the starting job. Probably not this year, but perhaps next.

[Lady Steel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI1SsDBh8OE


:lol:

[Fire Goodell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI1SsDBh8OE


:lol:

Thug life moment lol

[Craic]

If Samuels can show that consistently I feel he will take the starting job. Probably not this year, but perhaps next.

I think that will hinge on one factor: who can hang on to the ball better. Right now, the needle swings to Samuels, but it's an unfair sample at the moment.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Lots of his success was the O line getting a chance to run block.

Doesnt seem to matter who is there, Samuels, Conner or Bell. If the guys up front get a chance to establish the run game, Steeler backs can be productive.

[Shoes]

I think Samuels future is really really bright. I predict he will have an even larger contribution in 2019. While last night was great and he may play a huge role in things moving forward - think how much better year two was of both Bell and Conner. Now, imagine Samuels in year 2?

Remakes his body a bit for the NFL - gains strength and quickness.
Refines his route running and blocking - more opportunities to see the field in a diverse set of personnel groups.
Continues transition to being a RB - improved decisiveness and vision

I honestly believe those are realistic and necessary improvements for any rookie RB, particularly one that came into the league w/out a true position.

Do you think the Steelers will draft another RB in 2019?

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Thug life moment lol

:lol:

[Mojouw]

Do you think the Steelers will draft another RB in 2019?

Yes. If nothing else a RB depth chart of Conner/Samuels/Draft Pick is cheaper than Conner/Samuels/Ridley.

I also wholeheartedly believe any NFL team has a far far better chance of "hitting" on a 5th-7th round RB or WR over a DB or LB.

[Rotorhead]

Do you think the Steelers will draft another RB in 2019?

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:lol:

No need at this point, and far more pressing needs

[Shoes]

Yes. If nothing else a RB depth chart of Conner/Samuels/Draft Pick is cheaper than Conner/Samuels/Ridley.

I also wholeheartedly believe any NFL team has a far far better chance of "hitting" on a 5th-7th round RB or WR over a DB or LB.

Agreed, not good news for L. Bell

[Mojouw]

Agreed, not good news for L. Bell

Bells' best bet for a massive payday is a team like the Jets. They have a young QB who seems to have not made consistent strides his rookie year. A new staff may feel that surrounding him with better talent would aid in that development process.

If teams want to "clone" the Rams, Chiefs, and Saints blueprint, a flexible RB is a core piece. If Bell wants big $$$ then he needs to have his agent start working to convince Buffalo and Jets that Bell can be a massive stepping stone and shortcut to their young QB elevating their games to Mahomes/Goff levels. If they weren't so capped out, I would put the Eagles on the list as well. They have been trying to cobble it together with about a half-dozen guys this year and it isn't working like they want. Bell does everything that offense needs and more.

[Fire Goodell]

Yes. If nothing else a RB depth chart of Conner/Samuels/Draft Pick is cheaper than Conner/Samuels/Ridley.

I also wholeheartedly believe any NFL team has a far far better chance of "hitting" on a 5th-7th round RB or WR over a DB or LB.

I think it really depends who drops to us. If the BPA is a running back, why not. Sure it's not an immediate need, but with the shelf life of a RB, I'll go out on a limb and say there's always a need for capable running backs. New England always seemed to have a stable of young RBs on their rookie contract which were effective but also inexpensive.

However our RB room looks good right now with Conner/Samuels, and Trey Edmunds is a good talent as well.

[ThorndikeFFA]

He better learn to pick up a blitz!

[EzraTank]

Do you think the Steelers will draft another RB in 2019?

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:lol:

Maybe another shot at a late rounder but not in the first 3-4 rounds. No need. Conner/Samuels will be our starting backfield next year and I have no problem with Ridley as #3.

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Bells' best bet for a massive payday is a team like the Jets. They have a young QB who seems to have not made consistent strides his rookie year. A new staff may feel that surrounding him with better talent would aid in that development process.

If teams want to "clone" the Rams, Chiefs, and Saints blueprint, a flexible RB is a core piece. If Bell wants big $$$ then he needs to have his agent start working to convince Buffalo and Jets that Bell can be a massive stepping stone and shortcut to their young QB elevating their games to Mahomes/Goff levels. If they weren't so capped out, I would put the Eagles on the list as well. They have been trying to cobble it together with about a half-dozen guys this year and it isn't working like they want. Bell does everything that offense needs and more.

I think KC might take a shot at him as well. They cut Hunt and have no one really to replace him. Imagine Bell's talent on KC?

[Mojouw]

Maybe another shot at a late rounder but not in the first 3-4 rounds. No need. Conner/Samuels will be our starting backfield next year and I have no problem with Ridley as #3.

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I think KC might take a shot at him as well. They cut Hunt and have no one really to replace him. Imagine Bell's talent on KC?

Great point. I just assumed they won't have the cap room and what room they do have they will desperately throw at the defense. But the more I think about it, it makes sense and according to the internet they will have $42 million dollars in cap space!!

I also agree on the round priority for the RB in the draft. While Conner/Samuels/Ridley or Edmunds is fine, improving that with a potentially explosive player is NEVER a bad idea. If you look around the league you can find RB success stories of guys that wildly outperform their draft stock.

Taking a player like Philip Lindsey or Justin Jackson or Chris Carson late or even undrafted or Damien Willams (example of a NFL free agent) can really help the bottom of a roster. Let alone the impact injury can allow these players to have on the top of your roster!

Long story short, I am a general fan of Ridley. Edmunds is likely a great athlete (all his brothers are). But imagine if your 3rd string RB is Lindsey who you picked up as a UDFA?

[EzraTank]

Great point. I just assumed they won't have the cap room and what room they do have they will desperately throw at the defense. But the more I think about it, it makes sense and according to the internet they will have $42 million dollars in cap space!!

Plus the cap is going up from $177 million to 191 million next year. I fully expect him to land there.

[DesertSteel]

I think KC might take a shot at him as well. They cut Hunt and have no one really to replace him. Imagine Bell's talent on KC?
They had Hunt for $500K a year and they're going to replace him with a guy no better for $15M a year? I don't see it. D-R-A-F-T

[EzraTank]

They had Hunt for $500K a year and they're going to replace him with a guy no better for $15M a year? I don't see it. D-R-A-F-T

Someone's going to pay Bell and if the Cap goes up to $191 million why not them? They have Mahomes cheap for a few more years.

Bell and Hunt are about the same but Bell is a better receiver. Imagine their weapons. Hill, Bell, Kelce ...

[DesertSteel]

Someone's going to pay Bell and if the Cap goes up to $191 million why not them? They have Mahomes cheap for a few more years.

Bell and Hunt are about the same but Bell is a better receiver. Imagine their weapons. Hill, Bell, Kelce ...
I think the only reason people believe that is because the media keeps saying so. Personally, I'll believe Bell gets $15M and big guaranteed money when I see it. His backups have equalled his performance and he's a year away from football and also has two knee injuries and two drug suspensions.

Why not the Chiefs? Because they seem to make reasonable personnel decisions.

[Mojouw]

I think the only reason people believe that is because the media keeps saying so. Personally, I'll believe Bell gets $15M and big guaranteed money when I see it. His backups have equalled his performance and he's a year away from football and also has two knee injuries and two drug suspensions.

Why not the Chiefs? Because they seem to make reasonable personnel decisions.

It may not be the Chiefs, but it could be. While we can point to several RBs across the league and say "See! This is why no RB is worth $15 million dollars! Just get a guy in the draft." The other side of that coin is also true. we can point to a number of RBs across the league and argue that "Well, there is no guarantee that a rookie RB can come in and help a team win let alone make a playoff run."

For every Philip Lindsay there is a Rashaad Penny or Peyton Barber or Royce Freeman.

We seem to remember the instant success or unheralded lightening bolts and forget about the underperformers, the slow developers, or the outright busts.

If the Chiefs are convinced that they are otherwise a SB team and have a window to get cap goofy because of Mahomes cheap rookie deal, then spending premium dollars on an established known quantity at the RB position may seem more attractive then drafting and developing. In fact, I would argue that the Chiefs should throw dumptrucks of money at any and all veteran FAs they can to maximize their window before they have to start paying through the nose for Mahomes and Hill.

[DesertSteel]

It may not be the Chiefs, but it could be. While we can point to several RBs across the league and say "See! This is why no RB is worth $15 million dollars! Just get a guy in the draft." The other side of that coin is also true. we can point to a number of RBs across the league and argue that "Well, there is no guarantee that a rookie RB can come in and help a team win let alone make a playoff run."

For every Philip Lindsay there is a Rashaad Penny or Peyton Barber or Royce Freeman.

We seem to remember the instant success or unheralded lightening bolts and forget about the underperformers, the slow developers, or the outright busts.

If the Chiefs are convinced that they are otherwise a SB team and have a window to get cap goofy because of Mahomes cheap rookie deal, then spending premium dollars on an established known quantity at the RB position may seem more attractive then drafting and developing. In fact, I would argue that the Chiefs should throw dumptrucks of money at any and all veteran FAs they can to maximize their window before they have to start paying through the nose for Mahomes and Hill.
But that's the thing. Not only do you not need to pay an overaged, overused running back in FA, you also don't need to burn a 1-2 round pick on one. They are there at low-risk in mid to late and UFA. If I am a GM, I'm taking my chances through that avenue because it's not like a Kurt Warner story, Running Backs are a dime a dozen IMO.

[Mojouw]

But that's the thing. Not only do you not need to pay an overaged, overused running back in FA, you also don't need to burn a 1-2 round pick on one. They are there at low-risk in mid to late and UFA. If I am a GM, I'm taking my chances through that avenue because it's not like a Kurt Warner story, Running Backs are a dime a dozen IMO.

This is all kind of an exercise in confirmation bias. It is easy to focus on the pieces that support what we each already believe. For every late round success story at RB, we can likely find 2+ that were not. We are basically stating the same general idea from a slightly different perspective. Specifically, what is the least risky way to get a good RB on the roster?

1. Successful RBs can be found in ALL rounds of the draft and even undrafted.
2. Each of those sources of players is also littered with misses at the RB position.
3. Paying high $$$ for a veteran proven NFL performer is about the closest and NFL team can come to "low risk" in player acquisition and future performance projection.
4. Option 3 also comes with the real and present danger that you have chosen to pay for past performance and have tied yourself to a declining player.

Basically. there is risk no matter what path an NFL team chooses to pursue to fill holes on the roster. But with a low QB cap #, little other high $$$ talent on the roster, and a window to win SB right now -- there is a logical case to be made that the Chiefs pay Bell a big $$$ contract front loaded with 2019-2021 money and then they cut him when it is time to pay Mahomes and some of the defensive players they hope start coming on-line.

I view that scenario as the lowest risk path to replacing Kareem Hunt in the Chiefs 2019 offense. Since you are percieving the risk a bit differently, then you are all for the lower rounds of the draft.

[DesertSteel]

For every late round success story at RB, we can likely find 2+ that were not.
Not to discount everything else you wrote, but this above is the point I was making: bring in 2-3 RBs for peanuts and it's likely one will emerge. Teams that fail to accomplish this normally have issues on the OL. The conundrum with the high priced FA RB is that he is on his second contract and for that position in particular, you are paying for past production that may not be indicative of future performance.

I suppose that we just view it differently philosophically when we put our GM hats on. With Gurley, the timing was just right in his contract status to extend him. Perhaps Barkley will fit that mold as well in a couple years. Bell, heading into his "7th" year and the injury/suspension issues would never work for me as a GM. Especially given that he averaged 4.0 YPC his last year and his replacements have not missed a beat. All of that factors in when putting out money that eats up cap.

[EzraTank]

But that's the thing. Not only do you not need to pay an overaged, overused running back in FA, you also don't need to burn a 1-2 round pick on one. They are there at low-risk in mid to late and UFA. If I am a GM, I'm taking my chances through that avenue because it's not like a Kurt Warner story, Running Backs are a dime a dozen IMO.

Are you saying Bell is too old? He's not? As far as overused, he just had a year off and will be 27 years old next fall. Yes he has a injury history but look at Conner. He's younger and this is the second time he's missing time. Melvin Gordon missed time this year as well, that position gets hurt.

Like Mojouw said if the Chiefs are close to winning and have Mahomes/Hill on rookie contracts you offer Bell a 3 year deal with an option for a 4th year. Yes running backs are a dime a dozen but regardless of our hatred of Bell when he's playing he's worth more than a dime a dozen.

[DesertSteel]

Are you saying Bell is too old? He's not? As far as overused, he just had a year off and will be 27 years old next fall. Yes he has a injury history but look at Conner. He's younger and this is the second time he's missing time. Melvin Gordon missed time this year as well, that position gets hurt.

Like Mojouw said if the Chiefs are close to winning and have Mahomes/Hill on rookie contracts you offer Bell a 3 year deal with an option for a 4th year. Yes running backs are a dime a dozen but regardless of our hatred of Bell when he's playing he's worth more than a dime a dozen.
Yeah 27 with the miles and injuries he has on his resume is too old for a heavily guaranteed 2nd contract. Conner and Gordon are not making big money. Whatever Bell is worth, it's not $15-17M a year.

[EzraTank]

Yeah 27 with the miles and injuries he has on his resume is too old for a heavily guaranteed 2nd contract. Conner and Gordon are not making big money.

He'll get a 3 year offer somewhere for big money.

[DesertSteel]

He'll get a 3 year offer somewhere for big money.
Will he get a bigger offer than the one he rejected?

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And regardless of what a team pays him, IMO the decline already began in 2017. It will be poorly spent money.

[Fire Goodell]

Will he get a bigger offer than the one he rejected?

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And regardless of what a team pays him, IMO the decline already began in 2017. It will be poorly spent money.

Smaller offer with more guaranteed money, that's my bet. I don't think this guy even wants to play football anymore, hence why he's wanting guaranteed money. He seems to have more interest in starting a rap career than football, but I can't say he has the same talent with that :chuckle:

In my opinion, nobody who really loves the game and wants to play would have turned down the Steelers' offer. NOBODY. I don't know a single RB that would have turned down that deal, Gurley included.

[DesertSteel]

Smaller offer with more guaranteed money, that's my bet. I don't think this guy even wants to play football anymore, hence why he's wanting guaranteed money. He seems to have more interest in starting a rap career than football, but I can't say he has the same talent with that :chuckle:

In my opinion, nobody who really loves the game and wants to play would have turned down the Steelers' offer. NOBODY. I don't know a single RB that would have turned down that deal, Gurley included.
Teams overpay for QBs but I just don't see it at the RB position.

[pczach]

Teams overpay for QBs but I just don't see it at the RB position.


I understand your point, but I think there are exceptions.

A team that has a loyal fanbase and a bad team could be willing to pay big money to give fans a reason to get excited and cheer. It happens all the time. They don't know how to build a team through the draft. They look to make a splash with a huge free agent signing and show the fans they are trying.

The other possibility is a team that believes they are a great running back away from winning a Super Bowl. If a team really believes that they are one player away and they have the cap space, why gamble on a draft pick when they know they could be getting a great player that has proven himself over a few years. It costs more, but it is a known quantity. Windows close very quickly in the NFL, and teams are willing to make big moves to try to win right now.

I'm not saying I would do it. I'm saying there are teams that would spend huge money and probably will.

[Dwinsgames]

I understand your point, but I think there are exceptions.

A team that has a loyal fanbase and a bad team could be willing to pay big money to give fans a reason to get excited and cheer. It happens all the time. They don't know how to build a team through the draft. They look to make a splash with a huge free agent signing and show the fans they are trying.

The other possibility is a team that believes they are a great running back away from winning a Super Bowl. If a team really believes that they are one player away and they have the cap space, why gamble on a draft pick when they know they could be getting a great player that has proven himself over a few years. It costs more, but it is a known quantity. Windows close very quickly in the NFL, and teams are willing to make big moves to try to win right now.

I'm not saying I would do it. I'm saying there are teams that would spend huge money and probably will.

I get where you are coming from but it would be foolish to not also believe that the more success the Steelers RBs have the more of a hit Bell takes on his potential payday ....

2 different RBs have had big time success in Bells absence making it look as much like a product of system and great line play as it is RB talent level ...

couple that with 1 year away from the game and teams may have a degree of hesitance to even look at him let alone make him an offer ( also knowing the Offer amount that he turned down and walked away from ) you have greatly limited your potential audience from the start

[pczach]

I get where you are coming from but it would be foolish to not also believe that the more success the Steelers RBs have the more of a hit Bell takes on his potential payday ....

2 different RBs have had big time success in Bells absence making it look as much like a product of system and great line play as it is RB talent level ...

couple that with 1 year away from the game and teams may have a degree of hesitance to even look at him let alone make him an offer ( also knowing the Offer amount that he turned down and walked away from ) you have greatly limited your potential audience from the start


I guess we'll find out about Bell's value soon enough.

[DesertSteel]

I guess we'll find out about Bell's value soon enough.
I hope the Patriots or the Ravens pay him $100M.