winds of change ...........

[Dwinsgames]

its looking like Mike Hilton has been demoted to scout team reps and Cam Sutton is moving to the slot .... this is the answer from Butler and Tomlin on our defensive woes Bench the guy whom has been the best cover man for most of the season ( 2 poor games last 2 weeks ) but over all still the best cover guy on the team .....


I do not see this ending well

[Mojouw]

What else can they do?

Sutton and Hilton can not play on the outside. Every time they have tried it, it has been real ugly. Burns is unplayable. Davis and Edmunds are certainly better than Burnett and Marcus Allen.

So that leaves Sutton in the slot and Brian Allen on the outside as the only parts to be swapped in. Anyone have confidence after this preseason that Brian Allen is an answer to any question aside from "who might surprise us all and play well in 2019?" I certainly don't.

Move to linebacker. Your available options are Bostic, Chickillo, and Matakevich. All those three we have seen repeatedly get exposed as flawed in extended time with the first string defense. Chickillo is almost an automatic isolation and completion in coverage for the offense -- in his limited time on the field this year I can think of at least 2 TDs he is almost solely responsible for. The remaining LBs are an unproven pass rusher from Toledo and another UDFA who is a reputed mental midget. Putting another athletic guy on the field who doesn't understand what his role/assignment is is essentially how we go here in the first place.

To return to the original thing -- Sutton for Hilton -- it is the only change you can make that has even a remote chance of representing an improvement from a personnel standpoint. Every other change would be in regard to how you employ existing starters and key reserves.

[SteeleReign]

What else can they do?

Sutton and Hilton can not play on the outside. Every time they have tried it, it has been real ugly. Burns is unplayable. Davis and Edmunds are certainly better than Burnett and Marcus Allen.

So that leaves Sutton in the slot and Brian Allen on the outside as the only parts to be swapped in. Anyone have confidence after this preseason that Brian Allen is an answer to any question aside from "who might surprise us all and play well in 2019?" I certainly don't.

Move to linebacker. Your available options are Bostic, Chickillo, and Matakevich. All those three we have seen repeatedly get exposed as flawed in extended time with the first string defense. Chickillo is almost an automatic isolation and completion in coverage for the offense -- in his limited time on the field this year I can think of at least 2 TDs he is almost solely responsible for. The remaining LBs are an unproven pass rusher from Toledo and another UDFA who is a reputed mental midget. Putting another athletic guy on the field who doesn't understand what his role/assignment is is essentially how we go here in the first place.

To return to the original thing -- Sutton for Hilton -- it is the only change you can make that has even a remote chance of representing an improvement from a personnel standpoint. Every other change would be in regard to how you employ existing starters and key reserves.I'm confused. How does demoting Hilton, who has been one of our better defenders, for a complete unknown in Sutton impart positive change?

Unless the coaches believe that Hilton has been a poor performer, it makes no sense to make this change for the sake of change.

Why not use Sutton in place of Sensabaugh? Or give Hilton a go at CB2 and Sutton at Slot?

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[Mojouw]

I'm confused. How does demoting Hilton, who has been one of our better defenders, for a complete unknown in Sutton impart positive change?

Unless the coaches believe that Hilton has been a poor performer, it makes no sense to make this change for the sake of change.

Why not use Sutton in place of Sensabaugh? Or give Hilton a go at CB2 and Sutton at Slot?

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They have tried both Hilton and Sutton at CB2 and they performed poorly, albeit in limited time.

I have NO idea if Sutton will be better, worse, or the same as Hilton. But ANY other change I can think of in the top 14 defensive players would certainly result in worse outcomes.

For instance, no one in their right mind would propose that Walton should play in place of Heyward.

FWIW -- Hilton bungled the coverage on the winning Raiders TD. He also allowed a TD against the Chargers.

[SteeleReign]

They have tried both Hilton and Sutton at CB2 and they performed poorly, albeit in limited time.

I have NO idea if Sutton will be better, worse, or the same as Hilton. But ANY other change I can think of in the top 14 defensive players would certainly result in worse outcomes.

For instance, no one in their right mind would propose that Walton should play in place of Heyward.

FWIW -- Hilton bungled the coverage on the winning Raiders TD. He also allowed a TD against the Chargers.I'd agree that Hilton has struggled of late, I'm just surprised that Sensabaugh wasn't the player demoted. If we're being honest, Haden hasn't been good lately either.

Maybe they see Sutton as a better size match up with Gronk over the middle?

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[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_O5VW7A0Uw

[Dwinsgames]

I'd agree that Hilton has struggled of late, I'm just surprised that Sensabaugh wasn't the player demoted. If we're being honest, Haden hasn't been good lately either.

Maybe they see Sutton as a better size match up with Gronk over the middle?

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Sutton is bigger than Hilton , but lets face it 5'10-185 is still a small man trying to cover Gronk with his physicality

[SteeleReign]

Sutton is bigger than Hilton , but lets face it 5'10-185 is still a small man trying to cover Gronk with his physicalityTrue. We need to unleash holy hell on Brady or Gronk is gonna set more records. I just don't see any fathomable way for us to win this game. James White is gonna gash us too.

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[teegre]

My guess is that Hilton is going to play man on Gronk the entire game.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

True. We need to unleash holy hell on Brady or Gronk is gonna set more records. I just don't see any fathomable way for us to win this game. James White is gonna gash us too.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk Pats are on the decline and just look at the teams who beat them this year. I think it's a very winnable game as long as Steelers don't beat the Steelers again. Would help a lot to have Conner playing though!

[GBMelBlount]

Tomlin is going to unleash wind in December


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSJomg7UrcA

[Dwinsgames]

My guess is that Hilton is going to play man on Gronk the entire game.


he was running with the scout team at practice

[SteeleReign]

Pats are on the decline and just look at the teams who beat them this year. I think it's a very winnable game as long as Steelers don't beat the Steelers again. Would help a lot to have Conner playing though!We certainly CAN beat them. I would have assumed that we COULD beat the Raiders too.

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[teegre]

he was running with the scout team at practice

Yea... so he could cover McDonald (the only guy close to matching Gronk’s stature).

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Where is the Scorpions Video in this post ?

[steelreserve]

What else can they do?

For this one game only? Swap Edmunds for Bostic in their base package to make a 3-3-5, and have either Hilton or Sutton as the extra DB for dime packages, I don't really care which.

No, really, just use an extra safety the whole game - the guy who is 6'1" and has 30 pounds on either of our slot corners gives you a lot better chance of covering Polack Party Bro. Having one less linebacker won't matter, since they are going to throw the ball 80% of the time anyway.

For the long term? Get a DB coach and a defensive coordinator who have a fucking clue. Burns, Sutton, Sensabaugh, Allen, Hilton ... we had five young up-and-coming CBs who showed flashes, needed some polish ... all are now trash-tier, none have learned a thing, can barely have them on the field, and the one guy who is halfway decent is a Pro Bowler from another team. Incidentally, the same story as with the last dozen or so young DBs we've chewed through. Davis possibly the only serviceable homegrown DB we've had since William Gay over a decade ago, but even there the jury's still out.

That is hands-down, the WORST record of player development I have ever seen, and by all appearances it has somehow gotten even worse this year, as the players are not only not improving, but forgetting things they already knew how to do. Every single CB except Haden has regressed into an inconsistent basket-case. Sensabaugh is starting, not because he is any less of a liability than before, but by default because he stood still while everyone else fell apart around him, and he is now better by comparison. I do not think it's the personnel, we should have been at least OK with that many players who obviously had some promise. It is almost impossible that it is just bad luck.

Then after that shitshow is dealt with, use a high draft pick on a fast ILB with coverage skills, or sign one, or trade for one. You don't need Shazier, you just need someone who can cover the tight end and not get completely run over on rushing plays. With what is looking like about the 18th pick in the draft, and $25-$40 million in cap space, there is no excuse whatsoever for failing to address that this time.

[SteeleReign]

Yea... so he could cover McDonald (the only guy close to matching Gronk’s stature).Why would Hilton have to run Scout team to practice against McDonald though?

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[Dwinsgames]

Tomlin is going to unleash wind in December


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSJomg7UrcA

funny stuff but most hilarious for me was 3:28

[teegre]

Why would Hilton have to run Scout team to practice against McDonald though?

The scout team defense goes up against the Steelers starters. This allows Hilton to get lots of reps against McDonald.

Sort of like how they had James Washington play WR#1 on the scout team; so, that he’d get 1) lots of reps against 2) our top CBs.

No one (not Sutton, not Hilton, not Tomlin) called this a demotion. In fact, aside from Sutton, no one has said anything. It sort of reminds me of the regular-season game against the Broncos in 1997 when Cowher closed practices and shook up the defense. Alas, in today’s “media-centric” NFL, nothing can be kept a secret.

[SteeleReign]

The scout team defense goes up against the Steelers starters. This allows Hilton to get lots of reps against McDonald.

Sort of like how they had James Washington play WR#1 on the scout team; so, that he’d get 1) lots of reps against 2) our top CBs.

No one (not Sutton, not Hilton, not Tomlin) called this a demotion. In fact, aside from Sutton, no one has said anything. It sort of reminds me of the regular-season game against the Broncos in 1997 when Cowher closed practices and shook up the defense. Alas, in today’s “media-centric” NFL, nothing can be kept a secret.The more I've read of the situation since, the more I agree. I think this is just situational adjustments against our nemesis in, nearly, a must-win game.

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[teegre]

The more I've read of the situation since, the more I agree. I think this is just situational adjustments against our nemesis in, nearly, a must-win game.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

:nod:

[Dwinsgames]

For this one game only? Swap Edmunds for Bostic in their base package to make a 3-3-5, and have either Hilton or Sutton as the extra DB for dime packages, I don't really care which.

No, really, just use an extra safety the whole game - the guy who is 6'1" and has 30 pounds on either of our slot corners gives you a lot better chance of covering Polack Party Bro. Having one less linebacker won't matter, since they are going to throw the ball 80% of the time anyway.

For the long term? Get a DB coach and a defensive coordinator who have a fucking clue. Burns, Sutton, Sensabaugh, Allen, Hilton ... we had five young up-and-coming CBs who showed flashes, needed some polish ... all are now trash-tier, none have learned a thing, can barely have them on the field, and the one guy who is halfway decent is a Pro Bowler from another team. Incidentally, the same story as with the last dozen or so young DBs we've chewed through. Davis possibly the only serviceable homegrown DB we've had since William Gay over a decade ago, but even there the jury's still out.

That is hands-down, the WORST record of player development I have ever seen, and by all appearances it has somehow gotten even worse this year, as the players are not only not improving, but forgetting things they already knew how to do. Every single CB except Haden has regressed into an inconsistent basket-case. Sensabaugh is starting, not because he is any less of a liability than before, but by default because he stood still while everyone else fell apart around him, and he is now better by comparison. I do not think it's the personnel, we should have been at least OK with that many players who obviously had some promise. It is almost impossible that it is just bad luck.

Then after that shitshow is dealt with, use a high draft pick on a fast ILB with coverage skills, or sign one, or trade for one. You don't need Shazier, you just need someone who can cover the tight end and not get completely run over on rushing plays. With what is looking like about the 18th pick in the draft, and $25-$40 million in cap space, there is no excuse whatsoever for failing to address that this time.

..... !

[AtlantaDan]

Sort of like how they had James Washington play WR#1 on the scout team; so, that he’d get 1) lots of reps against 2) our top CBs.

Which prepared Washington in a game like simulation by practicing against CBs with skill levels equivalent to the third and fourth best CBs of upcoming opponents he would face while the other team's better CBs covered AB and JuJu?

[Dwinsgames]

Which prepared Washington by practicing against CBs with skill levels equivalent to the third and fourth best CBs of upcoming opponents he would face while the other team's better CBs covered AB and JuJu?


I bet he kills it in practice

[Fire Goodell]

Well the Patriots are gonna stomp us, some things never change

[teegre]

Which prepared Washington in a game like simulation by practicing against CBs with skill levels equivalent to the third and fourth best CBs of upcoming opponents he would face while the other team's better CBs covered AB and JuJu?

For game-planning, yes.

The scout team (usually third string and/or practice squad players) run plays/defenses that the opposition routinely runs. That way the starters get used to seeing those alignments.

[AtlantaDan]

For game-planning, yes.

The scout team (usually third string and/or practice squad players) run plays/defenses that the opposition routinely runs. That way the starters get used to seeing those alignments.

I was being sarcastic :chuckle:

What better way to get ready for playing against non-top shelf DBs that cover a team’s #3 receivers than to practice against the Steelers top DBs who, with the exception of Haden, would be lucky to see the field for anything other than special teams for many other rosters

Maybe Washington has been such a disappointment because what he faces in games is such a step up from the sorry Steelers DBs he practices against

[teegre]

I was being sarcastic :chuckle:

What better way to get ready for playing against non-top shelf DBs that cover a team’s #3 receivers than to practice against the Steelers top DBs who, with the exception of Haden, would be lucky to see the field for anything other than special teams for many other rosters

Maybe Washington has been such a disappointment because what he faces in games is such a step up from the sorry Steelers DBs he practices against

Got it. :lol: I missed it there for a second... I’m having a slow day. #fluseason

It reminds me of when Malcolm Butler used to rip it up during practices... but... it was against Ricardo Colclough.

[Rotorhead]

Why don’t we just jam Gronk at the LOS and let someone follow him all over the field, that would seem to be the best option.

[teegre]

Why don’t we just jam Gronk at the LOS and let someone follow him all over the field, that would seem to be the best option.

Dupree at the LOS, with Hilton bracketing him. :nod:

[DesertSteel]

its looking like Mike Hilton has been demoted to scout team reps and Cam Sutton is moving to the slot .... this is the answer from Butler and Tomlin on our defensive woes Bench the guy whom has been the best cover man for most of the season ( 2 poor games last 2 weeks ) but over all still the best cover guy on the team .....


I do not see this ending well
I’m sure it will be based on “game flow.”

[BlackAndGold]

1073049027149737985

[AtlantaDan]

1073049027149737985

Since it may be his last performance for a full house at Heinz I guess Butler is going to play all of his greatest hits on defense :noidea:

Maybe they can bring back Antwon Blake and Brandon Boykin as well to get the whole band of misfits together one last time

[Shoes]

Lmao! Artie Burns! Tom Brady approves this move. Go coach Tomlin & Butler :cloud9: :cuckoo::cuckoo:

[Dwinsgames]

if this does not prove this coaching staff is fucking clueless nothing does

[tube517]

1073049027149737985

Replacing who? Sensabaugh? I mean both of them suck but Sensabaugh isn't a head case like Artie Burnt.

[Steeldude]

If Burns is going to play it means the Steelers are already looking ahead to the draft and next season.

[86WARD]

Burns Sutton and SenasBaugh should be cut. I’d rather see three street free agents Out there than that trash.

[Fire Goodell]

eh burns or senselessbaugh, both of them suck

[AtlantaDan]

1073332036927152129

This is as if the captain of the Titanic tried to hit rather than avoid the iceberg

[SteeleReign]

This reeks of panic and desperation. If Burns is a liability on Sunday the Steelers have clearly admitted that they have no answers on defense. There will a coach or two looking for work in January.

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[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Might as well spot the pats 7 points if Artie is playing. That is a guaranteed 50 yard PI call waiting to happen.

[SteeleReign]

Might as well spot the pats 7 points if Artie is playing. That is a guaranteed 50 yard PI call waiting to happen.7 might be a tad short.

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[SteelMember]

Tomlin said in the presser that changes would be made and most folks probably wouldn't even notice...

If Artie Burns is the "tweak", I'm pretty sure everyone's gonna see that. Brady already scripted 10 plays today... [same call]

[86WARD]

7 might be a tad short.

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Way short. 17 minimum if Burns is playing a full game. 2 major PIs and whatever he gives up not defending passes...

[BlackAndGold]

if this does not prove this coaching staff is fucking clueless nothing does

At this point all they can do is throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks.

It's late in the season, they are who they are.

[SteelMember]

At this point all they can do is throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks.

It's late in the season, they are who they are.

Shit on the wall... shit on the field. Nice analogy. I approve this message. :chuckle:

[BlackAndGold]

Shit on the wall... shit on the field. Nice analogy. I approve this message. :chuckle:

https://media.giphy.com/media/NAnYvSGZMYenS/200.gif

[Shoes]

Brady is going to have a field day on Burnt Burns. Here's how it will go for 4quaters holding, PI, TD, PI, holding, TD,TD PI, holding. Game over, Pats win. Next NO. Maybe Tomlin can run out on the field and trip Gronkowski

[teegre]

Brady picks apart the zone.

People want man coverage.

We draft Burns, because he can play man. You know who else is really good at man: Sutton. I’m guessing that we are actually going to see man coverage (just like everyone has been asking for).

[pepsyman1]

Brady picks apart the zone.

People want man coverage.

We draft Burns, because he can play man. You know who else is really good at man: Sutton. I’m guessing that we are actually going to see man coverage (just like everyone has been asking for).

ya know what? I don't need to see man coverage all the time. I know this defense is built around zone coverage schemes, BUT they've got to be able to play SOME man to be able to disrupt the rhythm of ANY QB that understands this defense. ON TOP of that, it's not just man coverage but being able to jam receivers at the line on some plays. THIS is what they don't do and the reason that regardless of how good our pass rush is, it never makes a difference to Brady. We rush, we blitz, whatever. Brady takes a 3 step drop, hits a receiver that's open the moment the play starts and bam...they're 7-10 yards down the field and we do the same thing again...or more aggravating, he throws to a WR who's been given a 10-12 yard cushion at the line (even on 3rd and 5) who runs 6-7 yards stops and is wide open. They've got to be able to switch it up. It doesn't have to be every play, but it has to happen enough that they cause some doubt and hesitation.

[86WARD]

Brady picks apart the zone.

People want man coverage.

We draft Burns, because he can play man. You know who else is really good at man: Sutton. I’m guessing that we are actually going to see man coverage (just like everyone has been asking for).

Along with man coverage, you have to get pressure in Brady’s face. No pressure and man coverage will fail...

[Edman]

Seems the Steelers have accepted this season as a shitshow and are just doing whatever they can do at this point to minimize the bleeding.

[teegre]

ya know what? I don't need to see man coverage all the time. I know this defense is built around zone coverage schemes, BUT they've got to be able to play SOME man to be able to disrupt the rhythm of ANY QB that understands this defense. ON TOP of that, it's not just man coverage but being able to jam receivers at the line on some plays. THIS is what they don't do and the reason that regardless of how good our pass rush is, it never makes a difference to Brady. We rush, we blitz, whatever. Brady takes a 3 step drop, hits a receiver that's open the moment the play starts and bam...they're 7-10 yards down the field and we do the same thing again...or more aggravating, he throws to a WR who's been given a 10-12 yard cushion at the line (even on 3rd and 5) who runs 6-7 yards stops and is wide open. They've got to be able to switch it up. It doesn't have to be every play, but it has to happen enough that they cause some doubt and hesitation.

True
Just like the Taperiots disrupted the Colts receivers in 2003 (bringing about a rule change). It threw Manning off.

- - - Updated - - -


Along with man coverage, you have to get pressure in Brady’s face. No pressure and man coverage will fail...

That’s actually the ONLY important factor. Brady eats up zone and man; he can beat blitzes; but, pressure in his face is his Achilles heel.

Javon Hargrave has been so, so close to making some game-changing plays recently. He’s on the cusp of breaking out... but, not being greedy, I’d settle for a well-timed sack (or three).

[86WARD]

True
Just like the Taperiots disrupted the Colts receivers in 2003 (bringing about a rule change). It threw Manning off.

- - - Updated - - -



That’s actually the ONLY important factor. Brady eats up zone and man; he can beat blitzes; but, pressure in his face is his Achilles heel.

Javon Hargrave has been so, so close to making some game-changing plays recently. He’s on the cusp of breaking out... but, not being greedy, I’d settle for a well-timed sack (or three).

They are going to win Sunday...

[Steeldude]

So implant the team's worst CB into the starting lineup against a team that effortlessly passes against us every season? Classic Tomlin move.

[pepsyman1]

So implant the team's worst CB into the starting lineup against a team that effortlessly passes against us every season? Classic Tomlin move.

You don't see this as the perfect solution to our coverage woes? :frusty:

[Craic]

So implant the team's worst CB into the starting lineup against a team that effortlessly passes against us every season? Classic Tomlin move.

Unless, of course, they are going to do what we've all been crying for the last few years and play man coverage—the only coverage pretty much everyone agrees Burns can play.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Unless, of course, they are going to do what we've all been crying for the last few years and play man coverage—the only coverage pretty much everyone agrees Burns can play. Has to be and no other reason to put that moron on the field. Tomlin is unleashing hell on the Pats! Playing Burns and Sutton!