Fire Tomlin... Promote Munchak

[StillCurtains]

I think this is about enough.

This team under Tomlin has been able to string together some successful years. Of course the most notable was 2008 in which they won the Superbowl.

Most of those players were brought in under Cowher. Tomlin inherited many of Cowher’s players in their prime. The 2010 season is when they started to show signs of age losing the Superbowl to the Packers.

The Steelers have not been the same since that loss. The 2011 Team was the last time they had a defense that wasn’t laughable, and even that defense was done in by Tebow. The Tebow playoff loss also seemed to jumpstart an ongoing trend of losing to inferior opponents.

Yes, we have had some successful seasons after that. We have had playoff runs from 2014 thru 2017. Injuries have played a part in some of the failure, but so has a lack of focus and preparation. The sloppiness of this team seems to get worse each season.

Special Teams: This unit is a penalty machine. They allow FG’s to get blocked. Boswell can’t make routine FG’s and extra points. They don’t understand the rules; like Switzer letting go a free kick. They also have lapses in coverage.

Offense: This unit will put up 600 yards of offense only to score 13 points. They make questionable calls in the redzone. They scrap the running game from the offense too often. They rarely use Nix in the running game. They get holding and false start penalties in critical moments. They are very stupidly turnover prone. Their turnovers are self inflicted, like Grimble fumbling out of the endzone because he wanted to run over the defender, instead of getting a routine TD by avoiding him.
We have a 15 year QB that is careless with the football that throws around 2 picks a game. You would think that after 15 years, he would know to protect it better. If he didn’t know that, then you would think that he would know not to give it away because the defense can’t stop anyone.

Defense: It’s been 8 years and the Steelers have not yet been able to field a good defense. Shazier was the best defensive player they have drafted. Even with him, they are a middling defense at best. Without him they have fallen apart and lack leadership. Watt is promising, but still is coming into his own. Heyward, Tuitt and Hargraves are good, but disappear in games at times. Haden is their best player in the secondary. Everyone else is average. All these years rebuilding the defense and they get worse every year. Our draft picks have been average to busts in Burns, Davis, Dupree, Jarvis Jones, Worilds and Edmunds.

It’s clear that Carnell Lake was not the problem. They continue to draft players in the secondary with no coverage or ball skills. It’s a shame when watching that getting a turnover never comes to mind. QB’s, WR’s and TE’s have career days vs the Steelers. Players look average to bad in weeks prior to playing the Steelers and after playing the Steelers. You have a better chance in winning the powerball than the defense getting a turnover.

First they couldn’t tackle, now they are back to showing their inability to cover and constantly have blown coverages. Butler and Tomlin put our ILB’s on the opposition’s best WR’s. They also have no clue in how to make adjustments. Tomlin makes stupid challenges. He let’s time run off the clock on Oakland’s final drive instead of using a TO. He brings Ben back in too late, when he should have let him come back in earlier.

He has to go. I’m tired of this clueless dumpster fire direction he is sending this team in. Hire Munchak. Yes, he didn’t have much success with the Titans, but he didn’t have the talent this team has had. Munchak’s unit has been the only unit that has been consistently good over these past few years. Give him a shot.

[Fire Goodell]

My patience with him is running thin, after 10 years his clock management is still terrible, in game adjustments are non existent and he can't win a challenge for shit

[Edman]

I said in the gameday thread that Mike McCarthy was recently cut loose in Green Bay for riding on Aaron Rodgers for a decade. The Packers have continually underachieved under McCarthy, but they held on to him for too long because "stability" and he won a Super Bowl in 2010, even though it was clear that he was outmatched as a coach and the Packers continually found ways to blow winnable games. McCarthy rode on the back of Rodgers' Miracles, and kept weak coaches like Dom Capers and his obsolete Defenses who continually faltered in the clutch and failed in big games.

Sound familiar?

It finally took a shitty season for the Packers to kick McCarthy out, even the writing was already on the wall and he should've been gone years ago. Yesterday was telling more than ever about Mike Tomlin's ability to coach and manage. Ben goes out, Joshua Dobbs comes in, we get the most uninspired, chickenshit, weakass playcalling ever seen. Result? Dobbs has no confidence, doesn't step into a throw and heaves a duck that is picked. The Raiders just shifted to man coverage. Why did the Steelers even bother cutting Landry Jones if they were going to play not to lose? If they have no confidence in Dobbs, then what is the point? Rudolph wouldn't have made a difference either. Tomlin's lacking coaching ability will make even the most talented players subpar. He is the anchor sinking this team. When Ben retires, yesterday is the glimpse of the future of Mike Tomlin's Steelers. It isn't the players, its the coaching.

Great Coaches put players in position to succeed, and great coaching makes up for average talent. Tomlin put the team in a position to lose yesterday, which they did. I am officially convinced that this team will not get anywhere with Tomlin. He is nothing more than an average coach propped up by upper echelon talent. The Penguins finally had to say adios to Disco Dan Bylsma before they got two cups. Mike Tomlin is in the exact same boat. He has to go.

Mike Munchak is the only coach on the team worth a damn. Everyone else can vamoose.

[EzraTank]

Tomlin and Ben were right about one thing. Their playoffs started yesterday ........ and they were eliminated with the loss to a 2-10 team.

The Ravens will finish 9-7 and we will finish 8-7-1 and lose the division by 1/2 a game. To be honest though, watching the Raven play the Chiefs on the road to the wire was enough for me. As much as I hate the Ravens they just are the better team right now. Without Moonball Joe they are better balanced offense.

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When Ben retires, yesterday is the glimpse of the future of Mike Tomlin's Steelers. It isn't the players, its the coaching.



I said the same exact thing in the GDT. Watching them fumble around when Ben was out was our future w/o Ben. It reeks of perpetual 6-10 seasons.

[Craic]

Wait . . .

Promote a guy to head coach who failed at that position the only three years he was at it, meanwhile promoting him out of the only coaching position he's proven himself to be great at.

And that's supposed to be an improvement? I think many of us don't have realistic expectations of NFL coaches. Very few coaches even win as many games as Tomlin has, and I can think of one, maybe two active coaches who have had their teams consistently in the playoffs like Tomlin. Do I like everything I see? No. It's frustrating. But let's keep perspective. Firing someone who, for all intents and purposes, is one of the top five to eight coaches in the NFL is a knee-jerk reaction. Firing him and then replacing him with someone whose best year was 9-7 in a three-year stint is just silly.

[86WARD]

Belichick failed first time around...36-44 with the Browns. Munchak was 22-26.

Not by any means saying that Munchak is the next Belichick or that he’s a good candidate but stranger things have been suggested around here.

[Shoes]

Tomlin has leadership qualities but he’s not a good coach and that is the problem.

[DesertSteel]

How is 13 picks in 13 games “2 picks a game?”

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Tomlin made Gruden look like a good coach... which isn’t easy.

[FrancoLambert]

Wait . . .

Promote a guy to head coach who failed at that position the only three years he was at it, meanwhile promoting him out of the only coaching position he's proven himself to be great at.

And that's supposed to be an improvement? I think many of us don't have realistic expectations of NFL coaches. Very few coaches even win as many games as Tomlin has, and I can think of one, maybe two active coaches who have had their teams consistently in the playoffs like Tomlin. Do I like everything I see? No. It's frustrating. But let's keep perspective. Firing someone who, for all intents and purposes, is one of the top five to eight coaches in the NFL is a knee-jerk reaction. Firing him and then replacing him with someone whose best year was 9-7 in a three-year stint is just silly.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction when you continue to see the same problems resurface.
Losing to inferior teams (I know...on any given Sunday....). A two win team with no stars is clearly inferior.
Clock management...try defending Tomlin on that.
In-game adjustments....yeah, we see plenty of those.

Everything comes to an end; it did for Chuck Noll.
It may be the end of the cycle for Tomlin.

To suggest that Munchak wouldn’t be successful with a second try at being a head coach is what’s really silly.

[AtlantaDan]

It’s not a knee jerk reaction when you continue to see the same problems resurface.
Losing to inferior teams (I know...on any given Sunday....). A two win team with no stars is clearly inferior.
Clock management...try defending Tomlin on that.
In-game adjustments....yeah, we see plenty of those.

Everything comes to an end; it did for Chuck Noll.
It may be the end of the cycle for Tomlin.

To suggest that Munchak wouldn’t be successful with a second try at being a head coach is what’s really silly.

Agreed Tomlin and the Steelers both probably need a change. But unless there is a lot of tension behind the scenes I see Tomlin getting one more year after 4 straight playoff appearances

This is like the 2009 collapse without Tomlin having just won a Lombardi - for the first time I think AJRII is running out of patience. But when the change comes AJRII is not breaking the pattern of the last three HC hires by going with a thirtysomething assistant as the new HC

Who knew a month ago that it would be Tomlin rather than Harbaugh who could be the coach on a hotter seat when this season ended? :noidea:

[GBMelBlount]

Wait . . .

Promote a guy to head coach who failed at that position the only three years he was at it, meanwhile promoting him out of the only coaching position he's proven himself to be great at.

And that's supposed to be an improvement? I think many of us don't have realistic expectations of NFL coaches. Very few coaches even win as many games as Tomlin has, and I can think of one, maybe two active coaches who have had their teams consistently in the playoffs like Tomlin. Do I like everything I see? No. It's frustrating. But let's keep perspective. Firing someone who, for all intents and purposes, is one of the top five to eight coaches in the NFL is a knee-jerk reaction. Firing him and then replacing him with someone whose best year was 9-7 in a three-year stint is just silly.

I agree.

I would first consider upgrading the defensive coaches first, similar to what we did on offense by acquiring Munchak to coach the Oline.

[Craic]

It’s not a knee jerk reaction when you continue to see the same problems resurface.
Losing to inferior teams (I know...on any given Sunday....). A two win team with no stars is clearly inferior.
Clock management...try defending Tomlin on that.
In-game adjustments....yeah, we see plenty of those.

Everything comes to an end; it did for Chuck Noll.
It may be the end of the cycle for Tomlin.

To suggest that Munchak wouldn’t be successful with a second try at being a head coach is what’s really silly.

Name one team outside of the Pats* who do not have problems resurface. And, in all honesty, I discount the Pats* because I seriously still believe Belicheat is cheating. There are things that players have said from his own team that still haven't been investigated.

Other than that, I think you're confusing my post for defending Tomlin. I'm not. I'm arguing that wanting to upgrade from Tomlin is a very risky move because despite the problems you listed, there are few coaches out there who have done better than him. He has a .653 win percentage with no losing seasons. His teams have missed the playoffs only 3 times in eleven years.

Some people on this site harp on "It's Cowher's players." Fine, then why does Tomlin have a better winning percentage with Cowher's players? (.623 for Cowher). Cowher's teams missed the playoffs 1/3 of the time (5 out of 15 seasons).

So, we have a coach that has coached a previous coach's players better than that coach did (Not your argument, FL, but I'm anticipating responses from the resident Archie Bunker) and is sixteenth on the all time win percentage list, third on the list of all coaches beginning their career after 1980 (when the game began to change) and second on the active coaching list (and thus, second on all coaches who have coached in today's high-flying NFL).

Tell me what coaches are available who are either proven they can do better, or is considered by people in the know to have the talent to do better. And no, Munchak is not one of them. Moreover, with our line starting to age up, he's the last position coach I'd move at the moment. We're going to need him to focus on the O line in the coming two or three years, or we're going to be right back where we were in 2010-2013 when Russ Grimm left us a mess of untrained, no-talented underlings and aging starters. No way, no thank you.

Look, do I want to see the things fixed that keep popping up? Absolutely. However, there's a fine between being the edgy win-it-all franchise and cutting off one's nose to spite their face because of a few losses in a single season.

[Shoes]

I agree.

I would first consider upgrading the defensive coaches first, similar to what we did on offense by acquiring Munchak to coach the Oline.

I can agree with this as long as Tomlin keeps his hands off the defense, he has his hands full with clock management. I don’t have inside info but I’d bet he has no part of what Munch is doing with the Oline. Tomlin imo has leadership skills but he isn’t a good coach. He should make a run for governor in pa. :chuckle:

[st33lersguy]

No, keep Munchak where he has been successful. Hiring retreads at head coach has had a poor track record. Recent years teams have done poorly/are doing poorly with retreat head coaches such as Jon Gruden, John Fox, Jeff Fisher (and these are coaches who actually have had some measure of success in previous stints).

The best course of action would be hiring an NFL coordinator 45 years or younger who has had success coordinating an offense or defense. John DiFillipo would be at the top of my list

Another course of action that would be risky but could make sense with NFL trends is Lincoln Riley of Oklahoma. Hiring a college head coach is risky and there have been plenty of failures, but might make some sense given that NFL offenses are seeing success using spread/Big 12 offensive ideas and considering that he may work well with presumed future franchise QB Mason Rudolph who is from the Big 12, Riley may make a system suitable to him. Then of course you hire someone like Jim Leonhard for DC position.

[SteelMayhem72]

All you need to know is the raiders had 130 penalty yards and we had only 2 penalties and we Still lost to a 2-10 team...that is as bad as it gets

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[DesertSteel]

If the Steelers lose their final three to make it six in a row, Tomlin will still not be fired. We all know that...

[Dwinsgames]

wait till seasons end . fire everyone including Colbert and hand a lifetime contract to Much to stay on as line coach with a 25% bonus over next highest paid line coach yearly ....

[Craic]

If the Steelers lose their final three to make it six in a row, Tomlin will still not be fired. We all know that...

Yep. Of course, there's still to right the ship, but . . .

[vader29]

1072252154860199941

[86WARD]

Name one team outside of the Pats* who do not have problems resurface. And, in all honesty, I discount the Pats* because I seriously still believe Belicheat is cheating. There are things that players have said from his own team that still haven't been investigated.

Other than that, I think you're confusing my post for defending Tomlin. I'm not. I'm arguing that wanting to upgrade from Tomlin is a very risky move because despite the problems you listed, there are few coaches out there who have done better than him. He has a .653 win percentage with no losing seasons. His teams have missed the playoffs only 3 times in eleven years.

Some people on this site harp on "It's Cowher's players." Fine, then why does Tomlin have a better winning percentage with Cowher's players? (.623 for Cowher). Cowher's teams missed the playoffs 1/3 of the time (5 out of 15 seasons).

So, we have a coach that has coached a previous coach's players better than that coach did (Not your argument, FL, but I'm anticipating responses from the resident Archie Bunker) and is sixteenth on the all time win percentage list, third on the list of all coaches beginning their career after 1980 (when the game began to change) and second on the active coaching list (and thus, second on all coaches who have coached in today's high-flying NFL).

Tell me what coaches are available who are either proven they can do better, or is considered by people in the know to have the talent to do better. And no, Munchak is not one of them. Moreover, with our line starting to age up, he's the last position coach I'd move at the moment. We're going to need him to focus on the O line in the coming two or three years, or we're going to be right back where we were in 2010-2013 when Russ Grimm left us a mess of untrained, no-talented underlings and aging starters. No way, no thank you.

Look, do I want to see the things fixed that keep popping up? Absolutely. However, there's a fine between being the edgy win-it-all franchise and cutting off one's nose to spite their face because of a few losses in a single season.


You can't just say "name a coach". Their are probably a dozen out there that would do better than Tomlin. Would the everyday guy know who they are? Most likely not. How many people thought Sean McVay would do as well as he's done? Not many...just a few guys in the Rams organization evidently. Without going through an interview process and knowing what type of candidates the Steelers would be looking for and knowing the ins and outs...you can't jut say "name a guy". No offense, but that's more silly than suggesting Munchak replace Tomlin as a topic of discussion. No one saw Cowher coming. No one saw Tomlin coming. People probably weren't running around the streets of Pittsburgh saying hire Bill Cowher...

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1072252154860199941

He's got a great Christmas Story Reading Voice...lol.

[SteelerCountry58]

You can't just say "name a coach". Their are probably a dozen out there that would do better than Tomlin. Would the everyday guy know who they are? Most likely not. How many people thought Sean McVay would do as well as he's done? Not many...just a few guys in the Rams organization evidently. Without going through an interview process and knowing what type of candidates the Steelers would be looking for and knowing the ins and outs...you can't jut say "name a guy". No offense, but that's more silly than suggesting Munchak replace Tomlin as a topic of discussion. No one saw Cowher coming. No one saw Tomlin coming. People probably weren't running around the streets of Pittsburgh saying hire Bill Cowher...

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He's got a great Christmas Story Reading Voice...lol.
Haha, right before he flips the table and has a Nam flashback mowing down Tomlin and co. If bitch ass Colbert won’t change things then Art needs to wake up and chop some fuckin heads!

[Born2Steel]

Agreed Tomlin and the Steelers both probably need a change. But unless there is a lot of tension behind the scenes I see Tomlin getting one more year after 4 straight playoff appearances

This is like the 2009 collapse without Tomlin having just won a Lombardi - for the first time I think AJRII is running out of patience. But when the change comes AJRII is not breaking the pattern of the last three HC hires by going with a thirtysomething assistant as the new HC

Who knew a month ago that it would be Tomlin rather than Harbaugh who could be the coach on a hotter seat when this season ended? :noidea:

I have no inside info or any way to know the truth, BUT.....I do feel there is something wrong with this team. It seems to have been there for a couple years now and really has manifested on the field about the same time as the Bell locker cleaning incident. I do not think there is a 'one mind, one team, one goal' here anymore. I do not blame this "feeling" on the current team performances only, but things we see on social media, and have seen by teammates regarding the Bell holdout this year. I have this gut feeling this team is about to implode. If Tomlin is actually fired for instance. Does that lead to BR's retirement? Which then leads to retirements by 53, 73, and possibly even 77? What happens to Nix in this scenario? The defense is not good yet but it was a work in progress and has actually made progress, IMO. I think the leadership in the lockerroom is more to blame for this than coaching. But again that's only my opinion. Tomlin may be the one on the hotseat but I think this is a much deeper issue than a coaching change will fix.

Hope I am wrong.

[Fire Goodell]

I have no inside info or any way to know the truth, BUT.....I do feel there is something wrong with this team. It seems to have been there for a couple years now and really has manifested on the field about the same time as the Bell locker cleaning incident. I do not think there is a 'one mind, one team, one goal' here anymore. I do not blame this "feeling" on the current team performances only, but things we see on social media, and have seen by teammates regarding the Bell holdout this year. I have this gut feeling this team is about to implode. If Tomlin is actually fired for instance. Does that lead to BR's retirement? Which then leads to retirements by 53, 73, and possibly even 77? What happens to Nix in this scenario? The defense is not good yet but it was a work in progress and has actually made progress, IMO. I think the leadership in the lockerroom is more to blame for this than coaching. But again that's only my opinion. Tomlin may be the one on the hotseat but I think this is a much deeper issue than a coaching change will fix.

Hope I am wrong.

It did almost feel like they lost that hunger after the whole Bell situation was finalized. It was like they were out to prove they could win without him, and after it was a done deal they lost their purpose of playing it seems.

[smokin3000gt]

My patience with him is running thin, after 10 years his clock management is still terrible, in game adjustments are non existent and he can't win a challenge for shit

https://i.imgur.com/YAGpXPd.png

[steelreserve]

The only reason this would make sense is if Munchak said he was leaving and the only way to keep him was to make him the head coach. I'd take my chances with that, if only for the chance he could still work his magic with the OL which was a problem for years.

Otherwise, it'd be a sideways move, just trading one set of problems for another.

While I am sure there are many coaches worse than Tomlin, I am also getting tired of the same problems persisting year in and year out ... player development at a standstill for several seasons at key positions ... unable to fix the problems with the defense after a decade and numerous #1 and #2 draft picks ... failing to adapt and getting outcoached in-game by the top-tier opponents. The clock management and challenges are penny-ante shit, just a distraction from the bigger picture items that we cannot get the hang of.

[Craic]

The only reason this would make sense is if Munchak said he was leaving and the only way to keep him was to make him the head coach. I'd take my chances with that, if only for the chance he could still work his magic with the OL which was a problem for years.

Otherwise, it'd be a sideways move, just trading one set of problems for another.

While I am sure there are many coaches worse than Tomlin, I am also getting tired of the same problems persisting year in and year out ... player development at a standstill for several seasons at key positions ... unable to fix the problems with the defense after a decade and numerous #1 and #2 draft picks ... failing to adapt and getting outcoached in-game by the top-tier opponents. The clock management and challenges are penny-ante shit, just a distraction from the bigger picture items that we cannot get the hang of.

See, there's very little here I can disagree with. I don't know if he's getting "out-coached" as much as some people think. However, his team continues to get outplayed. So, six in one, half a dozen in the other....

[DesertSteel]

The only reason this would make sense is if Munchak said he was leaving and the only way to keep him was to make him the head coach. I'd take my chances with that, if only for the chance he could still work his magic with the OL which was a problem for years.

Otherwise, it'd be a sideways move, just trading one set of problems for another.

While I am sure there are many coaches worse than Tomlin, I am also getting tired of the same problems persisting year in and year out ... player development at a standstill for several seasons at key positions ... unable to fix the problems with the defense after a decade and numerous #1 and #2 draft picks ... failing to adapt and getting outcoached in-game by the top-tier opponents. The clock management and challenges are penny-ante shit, just a distraction from the bigger picture items that we cannot get the hang of.
The "game flow" issues trump all the clock management and challenge issues combined! A fireable offense IMO.

[Steeldude]

Some people on this site harp on "It's Cowher's players." Fine, then why does Tomlin have a better winning percentage with Cowher's players? (.623 for Cowher). Cowher's teams missed the playoffs 1/3 of the time (5 out of 15 seasons).

Simple. Kordell? One of the worst QBs in NFL history.

[Dwinsgames]

Simple. Kordell? One of the worst QBs in NFL history.

and Kordell was one of the better ones Cowher had ....

Kent Graham anyone ?

Mike Tomczak ?

Tommy Maddox ?

[tube517]

and Kordell was one of the better ones Cowher had ....

Kent Graham anyone ?

Mike Tomczak ?

Tommy Maddox ?

I still don't know why we got Kent f'n Graham. What in the world was Cowher thinking? Yes, Kordell sucked but Graham was awful.

[86WARD]

I have no inside info or any way to know the truth, BUT.....I do feel there is something wrong with this team. It seems to have been there for a couple years now and really has manifested on the field about the same time as the Bell locker cleaning incident. I do not think there is a 'one mind, one team, one goal' here anymore. I do not blame this "feeling" on the current team performances only, but things we see on social media, and have seen by teammates regarding the Bell holdout this year. I have this gut feeling this team is about to implode. If Tomlin is actually fired for instance. Does that lead to BR's retirement? Which then leads to retirements by 53, 73, and possibly even 77? What happens to Nix in this scenario? The defense is not good yet but it was a work in progress and has actually made progress, IMO. I think the leadership in the lockerroom is more to blame for this than coaching. But again that's only my opinion. Tomlin may be the one on the hotseat but I think this is a much deeper issue than a coaching change will fix.

Hope I am wrong.

Certainly when everything fell off for Conner...

[Craic]

Simple. Kordell? One of the worst QBs in NFL history.

Nope. According to Pro Football Reference, he just misses being in the top 100 QBs for total value to a team, which puts him in the top 12-14 percent of all QBs that every played in the NFL. Oh, and his pass rating puts him in the top 15 percent for all QBs in the NFL (and literally two spots away from Terry Bradshaw).

Of course, let's say he did suck. Why? Why did they go with him? Well, this one we know. The head coach. Cowher seriously devalued the QB position in lieu of the defense and supporting the run. Or, do we forget all those AFCCG losses under him because Cowher-ball could never defeat the top teams in the playoffs. It was only when the Rooneys forced a QB on Cowher that we actually won something. So, no, I don't think Cowher is the be-all-in-all. He had serious blind spots, just as Tomlin has his.

That being said, I find it interesting that Tomlin has the better win percentage. Perhaps if Cowher didn't have his blindspot towards QBs maybe he would have the better percentage. But, he did, so he doesn't.

[FrancoLambert]

Nope. According to Pro Football Reference, he just misses being in the top 100 QBs for total value to a team, which puts him in the top 12-14 percent of all QBs that every played in the NFL. Oh, and his pass rating puts him in the top 15 percent for all QBs in the NFL (and literally two spots away from Terry Bradshaw).

Of course, let's say he did suck. Why? Why did they go with him? Well, this one we know. The head coach. Cowher seriously devalued the QB position in lieu of the defense and supporting the run. Or, do we forget all those AFCCG losses under him because Cowher-ball could never defeat the top teams in the playoffs. It was only when the Rooneys forced a QB on Cowher that we actually won something. So, no, I don't think Cowher is the be-all-in-all. He had serious blind spots, just as Tomlin has his.

That being said, I find it interesting that Tomlin has the better win percentage. Perhaps if Cowher didn't have his blindspot towards QBs maybe he would have the better percentage. But, he did, so he doesn't.

Kordell in the top 12-14% of QB’S that ever played. Hmmm.

His pass rating puts him only two spots behind Bradshaw. Hmmm.

Proof that stats don’t necessarily reveal the truth.
Putting any stock in the stat that compares Kordell to Terry so favorably is laughable.

[LambertsLunatic58]

I agree that it's probably time for Tomlin to go. I like Munchak, he's turned this line into one of the best I can remember. Should he be the "next man up?" I think so. Not because I think he's the best coaching candidate (he might prove me wrong), but because I believe Ben would be comfortable with him. Let's face it, we're only gonna be able to have BR under center for a couple more years. A "new" coach would probably not work best for Ben at this point in his career. Perhaps having an "in-house" coach (who's created an O-Line that's keeping Ben safe) would be a little easier to accept.
If that didn't work out, then whenever BR retires it might be the time to really "clean house" and start over. Whatever happens, I love watching the Steelers!

LambertsLunatic

[Craic]

Kordell in the top 12-14% of QB’S that ever played. Hmmm.

His pass rating puts him only two spots behind Bradshaw. Hmmm.

Proof that stats don’t necessarily reveal the truth.
Putting any stock in the stat that compares Kordell to Terry so favorably is laughable.

Not really. The reason we dislike Kordell so much is because he crapped the bed in playoff games. Terry wasn't such a good QB in the regular season, but he turned it on in playoff games. That, and being a QB in Terry's time was twice as hard as in Kordell's time. Being a QB in his time is probably twice as hard again as today.

Another interesting thing if you check the record books. Total Approximate value for QBs at Pittsburgh? Ben, Terry, Kordell. Completion percentage among QBs? Ben, Tommy Maddox, Neil O'Donnell, and Kordell Stewart. Lowest Interception percentage? Neil, then Ben, then Kordell (for more than 5 games. Kent Graham and Dennis Dixon are in there, but they each played five games or less).

The problem with dismissing stats is it usually due to confirmation bias. We remember things in ways that confirm our bias and the stats speak against it. So, we dismiss the stats rather than dismissing our bias. Really interesting thing about that . . . (and now on a complete tangent), there's studies that show the smarter a person is, the more biased they are because of their ability to create arguments and structures that support their position regardless of reality.

[pczach]

Kordell in the top 12-14% of QB’S that ever played. Hmmm.

His pass rating puts him only two spots behind Bradshaw. Hmmm.

Proof that stats don’t necessarily reveal the truth.
Putting any stock in the stat that compares Kordell to Terry so favorably is laughable.


He's not even in the same universe as Terry Bradshaw as a quarterback.

Kordell was also one of those players that wilted in pressure situations, regardless of what stats say. If you watched him play, you know that he wasn't very good. He played with a very good team around him and made nobody better.

He was a below average starting NFL quarterback at best. To me, he was not a good quarterback. He had moments that people hold onto, but his overall body of work was well below average.

So much of being a quarterback is how often you are able to do something and when ​you are able to do something. Kordell was on the wrong side of both of those things.

[FrancoLambert]

He's not even in the same universe as Terry Bradshaw as a quarterback.

Kordell was also one of those players that wilted in pressure situations, regardless of what stats say. If you watched him play, you know that he wasn't very good. He played with a very good team around him and made nobody better.

He was a below average starting NFL quarterback at best. To me, he was not a good quarterback. He had moments that people hold onto, but his overall body of work was well below average.

So much of being a quarterback is how often you are able to do something and when ​you are able to do something. Kordell was on the wrong side of both of those things.

:clap2:

But...but, you’re ignoring the numbers. :rolleyes:
Kordell was a better WR than Bradshaw, Kordell was a better gadget player than Bradshaw.
Let’s leave it at that.

[Dwinsgames]

Kordell in the top 12-14% of QB’S that ever played. Hmmm.

His pass rating puts him only two spots behind Bradshaw. Hmmm.

Proof that stats don’t necessarily reveal the truth.
Putting any stock in the stat that compares Kordell to Terry so favorably is laughable.


the Bold ... also kids of today do not realize ( well some do ) that you could beat the shit out of a wr his entire way through a route during most of Bradshaw's days and that is why his completion percentage ( and all other QBs of yesteryear ) was low .... timing routes LMAO forget those you may NEVER make it to that spot on the field let alone in rhythm ....

[teegre]

A franchise QB generally takes up 15% of your cap space (sometimes 20%). Let’s use $100 million for easy math. That leaves $85 million for 52 other players.

$1 million minimum for 52 players is $52 million... leaving $33 million for signing stars. Let’s assume $5 million per star, so that’s an extra $4 per... giving you 8 stars per team.

Now... Cowher’s philosophy was sound, and for the era, kind of smart. Spend only $5 million on your QB and sign FOUR more quality defenders.

SUMMATION:
It almost worked... but, his subpar QBs lost each & every playoff game for him.

1994: incompletion
1995: INTs
1997: INTs
2001: INTs

#passonPennington
#passonBrees
#kissKordell

[Craic]

:clap2:

But...but, you’re ignoring the numbers. :rolleyes:
Kordell was a better WR than Bradshaw, Kordell was a better gadget player than Bradshaw.
Let’s leave it at that.
Funny how you focus on that. My POINT was that Kordell wasn't the worst QB in the league as someone else had said. Be snarky all you want. My original point stands.

[86WARD]

Funny how you focus on that. My POINT was that Kordell wasn't the worst QB in the league as someone else had said. Be snarky all you want. My original point stands.

Agree. He wasn’t even close to the worst. He wasn’t great and was most likely ahead of his time but he wasn’t the worst....lol.