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View Full Version : Another example of Tomlin's terrible clock management



Steelerchad
12-09-2018, 11:35 PM
Overall, I don't think Tomlin is that terrible. But I've said many times that his clock management is likely close to the worst in the league. He once again demonstrated it this afternoon as he allowed the Raiders to bleed the clock at the end. It is an afterthought since they pulled off the hook and ladder and had the missed FG opportunity. The Raiders hit the big play to the 8 yard line with 1:50 and a timeout left. Immediately, Tomlin should have realized that time is no longer a factor for the Raiders, only for the Steelers. They burn the clock and run the ball as the clock hits 1:15. Clock still running on 2nd down they throw incomplete on 2nd and 3rd leaving only 25 seconds left and the Steelers still with 2 timeouts. He then takes a dead ball timeout on defense to set the correct defense on 4th and 5 and they blow the coverage anyway. (That's another story).
Now they are left with only 21 seconds to get into FG range, and only 1 timeout since they wasted the 2nd one on the 4th down with the clock stopped. 21 seconds should not have been enough time, but they executed a great trick play so his inept clock management will be overlooked.
If he calls the first to with 1:50 and after the first down run, we have 1:30 or so to drive the field for a winning TD, not the missed FG. Even if he waits until after 2nd down and then they also ran instead of passed on 3rd, he could have used both timeouts and we still have around 1:10 with no timeouts left to drive the field, which is still significantly better than 21 seconds and 1 timeout.

Even in his postgame presser, he seems not to get it? He was asked about the situation and he stated he likes to save a timeout for the offense. What? You'd rather have a timeout than an extra 35 seconds on offense?
On offense, you control the clock, you can spike, get out of bounds, hurry to the line and run a play all of which take much less time than 35 seconds.
I don't know why I'm surprised, this is an ongoing issue.

DesertSteel
12-09-2018, 11:49 PM
Cheerleader :cheer2:

Lady Steel
12-10-2018, 12:13 AM
You say cheerleader, I say dumbass. And I mean it. :lol:

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2018, 10:27 AM
It would have been very much of a gamble, but I was thinking that the Defense was playing so badly, that you just let the Raiders score with 1:30 left so that you give Ben and the Offense a chance to win with a final drive.

Mojouw
12-10-2018, 10:49 AM
It would have been very much of a gamble, but I was thinking that the Defense was playing so badly, that you just let the Raiders score with 1:30 left so that you give Ben and the Offense a chance to win with a final drive.

That was my thought as well.

DesertSteel
12-10-2018, 10:57 AM
Letting a team score is like fouling in basketball at the end when you're up by 3. It all makes too much sense for any coach to follow.

Fire Goodell
12-10-2018, 11:20 AM
Another example of horrible clock management, failure to make in-game adjustments, and making bone-headed challenges, need I say more? Issues that have plagued him for 10 years, at this point, things will NOT get better. This is who he is. I thought this was the season for a turnaround since I saw Bryant and Bell as problem players, but no. This problem is looking like it's coming from higher than that.

Lack of ingame management, clock management to me shows a lack of attention to detail, and these details are what you need to win Super Bowls. Tomlin a good coach? Sure, he'll tease you with 10 years of straight playoff appearances only to fall short in the clutch. And I'm willing to say he's been carried by Roethlisberger for all these years. Without Ben do you have faith in this team to ever reach even the playoffs?

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2018, 11:23 AM
That was my thought as well.

Yeah, I just saw the 2nd half and it looked like Dobbs wasn't going to complete any kind of pass downfield, but when Ben came in the game it was just so easy for him. If they were going to continue to get no pressure on the QB and matchup Fort on WR's, then it was a matter of time the Raiders would score again.

- - - Updated - - -


Letting a team score is like fouling in basketball at the end when you're up by 3. It all makes too much sense for any coach to follow.

I think they wanted to put it on the Defense to get that stop and win the game. Its the right mindset to show that you trust your Defense to do the job, but strategically they were not playing well, so I would have put Bostic, Williams and Chickillo in coverage and taken Fort, Burnett and Davis out of the game to let them score.

Fire Goodell
12-10-2018, 11:25 AM
I think they wanted to put it on the Defense to get that stop and win the game. Its the right mindset to show that you trust your Defense to do the job, but strategically they were not playing well, so I would have put Bostic, Williams and Chickillo in coverage and taken Fort, Burnett and Davis out of the game to let them score.

The offense has a better chance of winning the game than this defense does, that's for sure. This isn't the 1997 Steelers where we could confidently count on the D to win us the game.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2018, 11:35 AM
The offense has a better chance of winning the game than this defense does, that's for sure. This isn't the 1997 Steelers where we could confidently count on the D to win us the game.

Agreed. The defensive line and ability to get pressure or collapse the pocket is disappointing. Heyward, Tuitt, Hargraves Alualu should be able to get the QB off his spot, so Watt can chase him. I also think that the Raiders WR's were not that great so the Steelers could have played Cover-2 but Man to man underneath and with some D line pressure....force Carr into some uncomfortable throws.

In the end, Carr had pre snap reads of mismatches of LB on receivers and then he had time to sit in the pocket and complete the throws. Sad to watch a bend and break defense.

EzraTank
12-10-2018, 12:14 PM
It would have been very much of a gamble, but I was thinking that the Defense was playing so badly, that you just let the Raiders score with 1:30 left so that you give Ben and the Offense a chance to win with a final drive.

I saw Belichick do that once and it worked for him.

Mojouw
12-10-2018, 12:25 PM
Agreed. The defensive line and ability to get pressure or collapse the pocket is disappointing. Heyward, Tuitt, Hargraves Alualu should be able to get the QB off his spot, so Watt can chase him. I also think that the Raiders WR's were not that great so the Steelers could have played Cover-2 but Man to man underneath and with some D line pressure....force Carr into some uncomfortable throws.

In the end, Carr had pre snap reads of mismatches of LB on receivers and then he had time to sit in the pocket and complete the throws. Sad to watch a bend and break defense.

Even more damning, is that several of the crucial plays DID NOT involve a LB on a receiver.

1. Burnett and Edmunds combined to not contain Seth Roberts.
2. Mike Hilton yielded the goal line on a 4th and goal play to some guy I still don't know if he was a TE or a WR.
3. The TD to the other 112th string TE or whatever, wasn't that against a DB as well?

These guys are SO focused on keeping the play in front of them to not yield the big play and tackling the catch, they can not play in short areas or aggressively break on the ball. They are just not good players.

Mach1
12-10-2018, 01:12 PM
Even more damning, is that several of the crucial plays DID NOT involve a LB on a receiver.

1. Burnett and Edmunds combined to not contain Seth Roberts.
2. Mike Hilton yielded the goal line on a 4th and goal play to some guy I still don't know if he was a TE or a WR.
3. The TD to the other 112th string TE or whatever, wasn't that against a DB as well?

These guys are SO focused on keeping the play in front of them to not yield the big play and tackling the catch, they can not play in short areas or aggressively break on the ball. They are just not good players.

They are doing what they've been coached to do.

Mojouw
12-10-2018, 01:22 PM
They are doing what they've been coached to do.

Right. Which is why I am solidly in the Butler has to go camp. But it needs to remain really well lodged in everyone's mind that part of why Butler coaches the way he does is because his secondary players stink.

fansince'76
12-10-2018, 01:28 PM
These guys are SO focused on keeping the play in front of them to not yield the big play and tackling the catch, they can not play in short areas or aggressively break on the ball.

Which was also LeBeau's MO. And Brady (for one) has made a career out of shredding this defense because of it. Not really Butler's fault he doesn't have a Polamalu to largely mask the flaws.

Mach1
12-10-2018, 01:30 PM
Right. Which is why I am solidly in the Butler has to go camp. But it needs to remain really well lodged in everyone's mind that part of why Butler coaches the way he does is because his secondary players stink.

Tomlin has his sticky fingers in the D also. I agree there is a lack of talent but with proper coaching that talent level would improve somewhat. imo

Steeldude
12-10-2018, 01:33 PM
That would be Butler's fault or maybe the punter. Nothing is Tomlin's fault.

Mojouw
12-10-2018, 01:37 PM
Tomlin has his sticky fingers in the D also. I agree there is a lack of talent but with proper coaching that talent level would improve somewhat. imo
I think that whole issue is a personal litmus test for how you see Tomlin. If you don't like him as a coach, you figure that all the bad in the defense over the last two years is his fault. If you like him as a coach, you can figure he had all the ideas that worked and improved things and Butler had all the bad ones.

We will never really know and the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.

Mach1
12-10-2018, 01:51 PM
I see the coaching for what it is. It's the same shit year after year and the only constant has been Tomlin. I personally don't have a problem with him but enough is enough.


I seriously doubt anything has changed this year. Getting a new DC I'm not so sure Tomlin could resist sticking his nose in it.

Bouchette: Mike Tomlin Ran Steelers’ Defense In 2017
https://steelersdepot.com/2018/01/bouchette-mike-tomlin-ran-steelers-defense-2017/

Why Butler is still here I have no clue other than playing the roll of scapegoat.

86WARD
12-10-2018, 02:03 PM
Raiders WRs May be the worst collective group in the league.

Fire Goodell
12-10-2018, 02:07 PM
Raiders WRs May be the worst collective group in the league.

Same with our secondary

86WARD
12-10-2018, 02:11 PM
Same with our secondary

True.

pepsyman1
12-10-2018, 04:12 PM
Right. Which is why I am solidly in the Butler has to go camp. But it needs to remain really well lodged in everyone's mind that part of why Butler coaches the way he does is because his secondary players stink.

I'm not buying the talent part of it anymore. As many people that we've drafted and brought in here, I refuse to keep believing it's all lack of talent. The front office has done well with the rest of the team. Our O-line sucked for years and had many of the same players we have now...then we got Munchak as a coach and within a single season there was HUGE improvement. Hell, now Ben gets sacked a little over once a game. He used to run for his life on every pass play. I lay most of this at Butler and Tomlin's feet. Good coaches coach up the talent. The high talent guys become stars but the average ones execute the system they're taught and currently, I think the average DB on the Steelers is doing exactly what he's been taught......a crap system

Steelerchad
12-10-2018, 07:22 PM
Yeah, I just saw the 2nd half and it looked like Dobbs wasn't going to complete any kind of pass downfield, but when Ben came in the game it was just so easy for him. If they were going to continue to get no pressure on the QB and matchup Fort on WR's, then it was a matter of time the Raiders would score again.

- - - Updated - - -



I think they wanted to put it on the Defense to get that stop and win the game. Its the right mindset to show that you trust your Defense to do the job, but strategically they were not playing well, so I would have put Bostic, Williams and Chickillo in coverage and taken Fort, Burnett and Davis out of the game to let them score.

I wouldn't have let them score. Especially since they forced a 4th and 5 and almost certain passing down with a cramped field. No way a guy should have slipped out that open at the goal line. Plus, a tip pass, sack, pressure, bad pass, drop. I'd make the Raiders execute in that situation, which they did. The problem I saw was why you came out with only 21 seconds when you carried over 1 timeout and wasted the other on the dead ball with the clock stopped. Tomlin's an idiot for that and his statement that he likes to have a timeout for the offense shows how little he comprehends real time, clock management situations. Ask any coach if you'd rather drive the field for a score with 21 seconds and 1 timeout or about a minute and none and 31 coaches take the minute.

Mojouw
12-10-2018, 07:27 PM
I'm not buying the talent part of it anymore. As many people that we've drafted and brought in here, I refuse to keep believing it's all lack of talent. The front office has done well with the rest of the team. Our O-line sucked for years and had many of the same players we have now...then we got Munchak as a coach and within a single season there was HUGE improvement. Hell, now Ben gets sacked a little over once a game. He used to run for his life on every pass play. I lay most of this at Butler and Tomlin's feet. Good coaches coach up the talent. The high talent guys become stars but the average ones execute the system they're taught and currently, I think the average DB on the Steelers is doing exactly what he's been taught......a crap system

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. With the inability to find 4-6 guys that can play complex coverage schemes, the Steelers are left with putting everyone into the most basic situations possible. Keep the play in front of you, don't give up the big yardage play, etc.

I know it sounds dumb, but Pouncey looked not that impressive when he was surrounded by traffic cones and repurposed floor polishers at OG.

Like I can't tell if Sean Davis is bad or if he has to just cover up simultaneously for 3 guys potentially getting roasted that it just looks like he stinks.

Steelerchad
12-10-2018, 09:02 PM
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. With the inability to find 4-6 guys that can play complex coverage schemes, the Steelers are left with putting everyone into the most basic situations possible. Keep the play in front of you, don't give up the big yardage play, etc.

I know it sounds dumb, but Pouncey looked not that impressive when he was surrounded by traffic cones and repurposed floor polishers at OG.

Like I can't tell if Sean Davis is bad or if he has to just cover up simultaneously for 3 guys potentially getting roasted that it just looks like he stinks.

What happened with him. I actually thought Burns and Davis both showed promise in their rookie years and now it looks like Burns is a complete bust and Davis is on his way to being one.

Mojouw
12-10-2018, 09:11 PM
What happened with him. I actually thought Burns and Davis both showed promise in their rookie years and now it looks like Burns is a complete bust and Davis is on his way to being one.
No Idea. I typically figure it is all on the players when on field performance takes a downturn. Can't figure it out or whatever.

But I saw an article that broke down Burns pretty good awhile back. Author's point was that the Steelers took a guy who really only worked well in man coverages and asked him to play a lot of read and react zones and it broke his brain/confidence.

Maybe Davis yo-yoing between 3 positions in 3 years has caused him to play hesitant as well? Best explanation I got to what was largely a rhetorical question!

Steeldude
12-10-2018, 09:25 PM
What happened with him. I actually thought Burns and Davis both showed promise in their rookie years and now it looks like Burns is a complete bust and Davis is on his way to being one.

Burns? Really? He looked the same from day one to the day he was finally benched for good.

Mojouw
12-10-2018, 09:34 PM
No Idea. I typically figure it is all on the players when on field performance takes a downturn. Can't figure it out or whatever.

But I saw an article that broke down Burns pretty good awhile back. Author's point was that the Steelers took a guy who really only worked well in man coverages and asked him to play a lot of read and react zones and it broke his brain/confidence.

Maybe Davis yo-yoing between 3 positions in 3 years has caused him to play hesitant as well? Best explanation I got to what was largely a rhetorical question!


Burns? Really? He looked the same from day one to the day he was finally benched for good.

Good Artie Burns: https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/10/27/18024788/the-roller-coaster-ride-that-is-the-play-of-artie-burns-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-news

Bad Artie Burns: https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/11/13/18084124/at-this-stage-artie-burns-is-his-own-worst-enemy-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-news-cb-depth-chart

Kid got his psyche broken somehow. Coaching? Bad player? A little of column a and b? Who knows at this point.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-11-2018, 09:42 AM
Good Artie Burns: https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/10/27/18024788/the-roller-coaster-ride-that-is-the-play-of-artie-burns-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-news

Bad Artie Burns: https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/11/13/18084124/at-this-stage-artie-burns-is-his-own-worst-enemy-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-news-cb-depth-chart

Kid got his psyche broken somehow. Coaching? Bad player? A little of column a and b? Who knows at this point.

I don't think his phsyche is broken, its possibly that he just doesn't understand the technique and discipline required to play NFL football.

Burns is a college track athlete that played football in college, where he had bad technique, but played man to man and cheated off some routes to get interceptions. In short, he used his athletic ability to get INT's off guys that are now articling for law firms or preparing tax returns.

Burns may not be mentally prepared to put in the film time, have an understanding and practice of techniques and how to cover different receivers in different routes, in close proximity. When all else fails on the field he defaults on being an athlete and trying to jump the first move to defend a pass....and is very susceptible to getting beat for a big play. So to combat that he gives too much space and tackles the catch and allows yardage.