ARTICLEKozora: Tomlin Offers Lame Excuses For Steelers Bad Matchups

[Shoes]

The standard is the standard.
Next man up.
Injuries won’t be blamed.
Ask any Pittsburgher who is even remotely a Steelers fan and they’ll know those are the most common Mike Tomlin phrases and sentiments. “Standard is the standard” is nearly as well-known in the Steel City as “Won’t you be my neighbor?”

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/12/kozora-tomlin-offers-lame-excuses-for-steelers-bad-matchups/

[SteeleReign]

Good article. Alex is correct. I don't know if Tomlin is taking the arrow for Butler, or if he's just getting worn out trying to field a defense that can help support our high-powered offense. In any case, Tomlin seems to be running out of ideas.

The Steelers have spent so much time, energy, and draft picks on fixing the defense and it's not showing up on the field.

We couch experts had been crying for a pass rush to help mask our deficiencies at DB. Now, we have the pass rush, but the defensive backs can't hold up.

It's maddening.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[lipps83]

I just wonder how many players they have to cycle through before they realize Lebeau/Butler have been the problem all along?

A 2nd string linebacker covering the other teams top receiver?

Really?

My mom, who doesn't know a thing about football, wouldn't be stupid enough to repeatedly try that expecting to find success when it is blatantly obvious the first 5 times you get torched that it isn't going to work.

[pczach]

Here's the thing. I would rather take my chances on a safety or a CB used in dime and fail in coverage, than to have a LB consistently put in a position where he cannot succeed.

Put in the kids. Let them play. I don't care which Allen you want to run out there. I don't care about any of that. Just put someone out there that is supposed to be equipped to handle the duties. I can live with it if players are hurt and the reason it isn't getting done on the field because the 3rd string young, inexperienced player can't keep up. What I can't live with is coaches willfully running out 245lb linebackers to cover elite receivers with no chance to make a play.

Shazier would lose that matchup to Allen. They know that the linebackers they have now have literally...no chance.
Let's find out what these players can do in that spot.

I can live with the results and understand it.

[Edman]

The Lebeau Defensive system is broken and obsolete.

Dick Lebeau was blessed to special generational freak athlete in Troy Polamalu, who was so good he masked the deficiencies. Without Troy in the lineup, Lebeau’s Defenses was quite mediocre. This was with better D Linemen and Harrison/Woodley on the edges.

Butler is, and always will be the problem.

[Mojouw]

I think this is just Tomlin taking the hit for Butler in public. Unless he plans on taking over play calling this week, he can't go out and just flame Butler. If nothing changes after the season, then I'm officially in the "this is ridiculous" camp.

I think you can run a 3-4 base and be successful. I think you just have to be more innovative than Butler has proven to be in disguising coverages.

[Mojouw]

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/12/5/18124882/breaking-down-how-keith-butler-cost-the-steelers-the-game-chargers-week-13-keenan-allen-afc-playoffs

This is one of the best breakdowns of why Butler just doesn't seem to get it.

Combine with this one: https://steelersdepot.com/2018/12/film-room-the-steelers-still-cant-defend-empty/

And this one: https://steelersdepot.com/2018/12/film-room-keith-butler-gave-the-steelers-no-chance/

And we can identify a repeated pattern:

1. No answer for empty sets.
2. Attempt to stay in base against 3 WR sets.
3. No disguise in sub-package pass rush
4. Little to no switching of defenders in response to motion or pre-snap adjustments by the offense.

I used to think it was covering up for underwhelming players. But, at this point, it just seems to be a failure of imagination on Butler's part.

[Fire Goodell]

If I see another game where their #1 WR is being covered by TJ Watt, Bud Dupree, or Vince Williams I'm turning the game off

[Mojouw]

If I see another game where their #1 WR is being covered by TJ Watt, Bud Dupree, or Vince Williams I'm turning the game off

Especially when Butler added the super duper awesome wrinkle of doing that and NOT blitzing a 5th or 6th guy! I mean I can look past putting a LBer on a WR, even a #1 WR if you then send a DB to overload the protection scheme and cook up some pass rush. But to cover WRs with LBs and then rush only 4 -- that is a new level of frustrating.

I think that Butler due to injury and player incompetence only has confidence in his base package + Mike Hilton. So he figures out dumb-ass ways to keep those players on the field.

[DesertSteel]

If I see another game where their #1 WR is being covered by TJ Watt, Bud Dupree, or Vince Williams I'm turning the game off
You should probably avoid the games from the start then lol. I can't imagine a world where it won't continue to happen, at least this season.

[Neversatisfied]

Mike Tomlin is a defensive minded coach, its tiring to hear people make excuses for why the team continues to fail after a total rebuild.

[Steeldude]

Getting rid of Butler won't change anything

[Mojouw]

Getting rid of Butler won't change anything

Except for potentially the entire defensive playbook, coaching staff, coverage schemes, blitz packages, personnel groupings, draft priorities, and player evaluations.
But other than that, it shouldn't change anything at all.

- - - Updated - - -


Mike Tomlin is a defensive minded coach, its tiring to hear people make excuses for why the team continues to fail after a total rebuild.

For me, at least, it isn't an attempt to construct excuses, but to understand (as best I can as a total outsider) the chains of logic and reasoning that may be at play in the team's decision making processes. In other words, why am I seeing the Steelers do what they do?

I would rather do that and attempt to scour the internet and other people's brains for explanations rather than just throw up my hands and yell incoherently at my television. Oddly enough...that happens anyways...

[AtlantaDan]

Getting rid of Butler won't change anything

Except for potentially the entire defensive playbook, coaching staff, coverage schemes, blitz packages, personnel groupings, draft priorities, and player evaluations.
But other than that, it shouldn't change anything at all.

Only if a DC with LeBeau like control is brought in, which is not happening - that ship sailed when LeBeau was forced out after the 2014 season and Tomlin incorported more of his preferences into how the D operated

This from Gerry Dulac of the P-G in his chat today

I give this answer every week it seems....it's not always Keith Butler. Mike Tomlin is heavily involved in the defensive play-calling. He is not without blame, nor is he not without credit when it's working.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2018/12/05/Gerry-Dulac-s-Steelers-chat-12-5-18/stories/201812050127

Butler has been a useful buffer for Tomlin not getting more blame for the ongoing defensive woes, which might be one reason Butler has been allowed to hang around.

If Butler is thrown from the sled after Haley was tossed last season, AJRII can only move up the chain of command if results do not improve.

Twelve seasons is a long time to hang around as a NFL HC and with exceptions such as Landry and Belichick even the greatest HCs (Gibbs, Walsh, Noll, Shula) got their best work done within their first decade with a team.

Cowher got over the hump in his 14th season but that of course coincided with the arrival of a franchise QB and Cowher admits he was worn out by then.

This seems more like something on a downslope rather than an uptick.

[Steeldude]

Except for potentially the entire defensive playbook, coaching staff, coverage schemes, blitz packages, personnel groupings, draft priorities, and player evaluations.
But other than that, it shouldn't change anything at all.

Tomlin is still there so it will remain the same. The defense has become worse under Tomlin.

[pczach]

Straight from the horses mouth... https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14377445-74/steelers-defensive-coordinator-keith-butler-explains-the-linebackers-covering-keenan-allen

Well....I feel better after reading that multiple paragraph article which explains nothing other than a couple guys were hurt. I guess I was unaware that there were no replacement players available. They must have been playing with only 51 players in this game. :rolleyes:

[86WARD]

Straight from the horses mouth... https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14377445-74/steelers-defensive-coordinator-keith-butler-explains-the-linebackers-covering-keenan-allen

Well....I feel better after reading that multiple paragraph article which explains nothing other than a couple guys were hurt. I guess I was unaware that there were no replacement players available. They must have been playing with only 51 players in this game. :rolleyes:

Only thing is that this sort of thing has been happening all season...no?

[pczach]

Only thing is that this sort of thing has been happening all season...no?


Yes it has. But the Chargers game was different from the standpoint that Butler made a conscious decision to do it even after the opposing team identified the weakness in coverage and kept exploiting it over and over again. Butler/Tomlin refused to play the backup players and change the personnel to a more physically/skillset appropriate lineup.

There are always going to be times during games when the offense dictates a mismatch. It happens. But to look to the other side of the field as the opposing coaches are handing you your ass over and over again until they finally caught the Steelers, and eventually took the lead is infuriating to me. This does remind me of some of the LeBeau hard-headed approaches he took against the Patriots for years. You throw the new kids into the fight and see how it turns out. You don't sit there and throw your hands up in resignation. You adapt and try to find a way to win with the available talent.

The worst part is when he said they had a good game plan.....Is he kidding me? A good game plan doesn't have a flaw that a 10 year old could identify and exploit, and a complete lack of adaptability when the other team solves what you are doing.

[Six Rings]

Yes it has. But the Chargers game was different from the standpoint that Butler made a conscious decision to do it even after the opposing team identified the weakness in coverage and kept exploiting it over and over again. Butler/Tomlin refused to play the backup players and change the personnel to a more physically/skillset appropriate lineup.

There are always going to be times during games when the offense dictates a mismatch. It happens. But to look to the other side of the field as the opposing coaches are handing you your ass over and over again until they finally caught the Steelers, and eventually took the lead is infuriating to me. This does remind me of some of the LeBeau hard-headed approaches he took against the Patriots for years. You throw the new kids into the fight and see how it turns out. You don't sit there and throw your hands up in resignation. You adapt and try to find a way to win with the available talent.

The worst part is when he said they had a good game plan.....Is he kidding me? A good game plan doesn't have a flaw that a 10 year old could identify and exploit, and a complete lack of adaptability when the other team solves what you are doing.

An upset loss to the Raiders would mean three upset losses in a row.

Tomlin just doesn't seem to have his team ready. I don't see adjustments. His red flag challenges have been bad, and I'm beginning to wonder if he's part of the problem. After sticking with Haley for all these year, he's responsible for the Butler hire.

Seeing LB's trying to cover WR's, just 2 DL players in some sets, including the goal line, and deploying a " bend but don't break " that looks more like a prevent defense.

I'd just about have enough. We have too much talent. Yet we are just 3-6 in the last nine playoff games under Tomlin. If we are one and done again, its time to find a new head coach.

[teegre]

deploying a " bend but don't break " that looks more like a prevent defense.

I'd just about have enough. We have too much talent. Yet we are just 3-6 in the last nine playoff games under Tomlin. If we are one and done again, its time to find a new head coach.

PREVENT:
Belichick runs the epitome of a “bend but don’t break” defense. He does NOT care about yards; only points. So, when Belichick does it, it’s genius; whenTomlin does it, it’s dumb.

I know, I know: Belichick has won more Super Bowls... yadda... The point is still the same: it’s a logical defensive scheme (by whomever is running it).

PLAYOFFS:
It’s always interesting (and trending on Twitter) when people add that sixth loss to the fray... the loss to the Packers in the Super Bowl.

(Sidenote: If Manny Sanders doesn’t get injured, I truly feel that we win that game. Antwan Randle El ran at least three incorrect routes, with one occurring on the final drive. Ugh!!!)

Back to that loss in the Super Bowl... people stop there, but fail to look a few games past that, where Tomlin won 5 in a row. So, in his past 14 play-off games, he is 8-6 (lifetime: 8-7). Here are his losses:

2007: Jaguars (who’ve had our number)
2010: Packers... Super Bowl champions
2011: Tebow (ARGH!!!)
2014: Ravens (rival & divisional foe)
2015: Broncos... Super Bowl champions
2016: Taperiots... Super Bowl champions
2017: Jaguars (who’ve had our number)

The Tebow loss was the only truly “bad” loss... and in that game, Tebow made some MIRACLE throws. On one TD, William Gay was in perfect position, even getting his arm between the WR’s arms... but, the ball dropped PERFECTLY into the receiver’s hands. A “good” QB makes that completion 1 out of 100 times, and Tebow would never be able to make that throw again if given unlimited opportunities. Truly a “miracle”... and a microcosm for the entire game.

Anyway... 3-6 ...okay. :noidea:

[Hawkman]

Yep, you can skew numbers anyway you want to prove a point.

[86WARD]

Yes it has. But the Chargers game was different from the standpoint that Butler made a conscious decision to do it even after the opposing team identified the weakness in coverage and kept exploiting it over and over again. Butler/Tomlin refused to play the backup players and change the personnel to a more physically/skillset appropriate lineup.

There are always going to be times during games when the offense dictates a mismatch. It happens. But to look to the other side of the field as the opposing coaches are handing you your ass over and over again until they finally caught the Steelers, and eventually took the lead is infuriating to me. This does remind me of some of the LeBeau hard-headed approaches he took against the Patriots for years. You throw the new kids into the fight and see how it turns out. You don't sit there and throw your hands up in resignation. You adapt and try to find a way to win with the available talent.

The worst part is when he said they had a good game plan.....Is he kidding me? A good game plan doesn't have a flaw that a 10 year old could identify and exploit, and a complete lack of adaptability when the other team solves what you are doing.

I think it’s a flaw that many teams have identified and created those mismatches on a regular basis. The Chargers game was just a shit show but it’s something that we see year in and year out lately is that they refuse to adapt and change...

[SteelMember]

Curious if Sutton not playing was just the simple result of the "no practice, no play" policy.
Seems like if a player showed up in time, and they were really that thin at the position, he'd still play.

I mean, "it's just practice!" :wink02:

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

If I see another game where their #1 WR is being covered by TJ Watt, Bud Dupree, or Vince Williams I'm turning the game off I don't think The Raiders have a 1 WR, so should be fine this week.

[Mojouw]

Curious if Sutton not playing was just the simple result of the "no practice, no play" policy.
Seems like if a player showed up in time, and they were really that thin at the position, he'd still play.

I mean, "it's just practice!" :wink02:

I saw somewhere that he was out last week to attend to a serious personal situation that the team decided to not release details of. Also think he is back in the fold this week and the player and team are not at odds or anything.

Not sure if this addresses your comment or not.

[AtlantaDan]

I saw somewhere that he was out last week to attend to a serious personal situation that the team decided to not release details of. Also think he is back in the fold this week and the player and team are not at odds or anything.

Not sure if this addresses your comment or not.

P-G article this afternoon confirms that Sutton was out on short notice and Steelers were left with few options with Burnett out as well

Smoke and mirrors: Why Steelers got stuck with LBs covering Keenan Allen

Sutton had to miss the game with a personal issue, and the Steelers did not know until late in the week that he would miss the game....

If Sutton, a trained cornerback, can play dime linebacker, then why not corners Artie Burns or Brian Allen?

Sutton explained how difficult it would be to perform on short notice, especially for someone who has never played the position.

“Playing inside in the dime and playing outside at corner, it’s a different mentality,” Sutton said. “A guy who has been consistently playing outside and then in 48 or 72 hours, you have to learn a position, learn what to do, study film … it can be a lot. You’re trying to get acclimated from moving outside to inside. Your entire thought process changes. Who are you working with now? What gap do I have to fit in the run game? I have to do this. I have to do that. It’s a lot of thinking. Even for me, it’s challenging.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/07/Steelers-smoke-and-mirrors-Cameron-Sutton-Morgan-Burnett-L-J-Fort/stories/201812070126

No surprise Burns was not an option since he allegedly is not smart enough to learn anything other than man to man coverage for his outside CB position

FWIW Burnett is no sure thing for the Oakland game

1071138970124386307

[SteelMember]

I saw somewhere that he was out last week to attend to a serious personal situation that the team decided to not release details of. Also think he is back in the fold this week and the player and team are not at odds or anything.

Not sure if this addresses your comment or not.

Right. I saw that too. I'd understand if he was distraught and/or not mentally prepared to play, but since he missed the practice week and showed up in time to play (before the inactive list is required) and said he was okay to go, then I wondered if it was just the fact that he just missed the practices or not.

From the Triblive article posted up stream: "Sutton returned from his family in Georgia in time to attend the Chargers game but did not play."

So, not knowing the exact time of arrival, and the game was at 4, maybe he didn't meet the list required time... which I though was only 1 hour prior to kickoff. :noidea:

[Mojouw]

Right. I saw that too. I'd understand if he was distraught and/or not mentally prepared to play, but since he missed the practice week and showed up in time to play (before the inactive list is required) and said he was okay to go, then I wondered if it was just the fact that he just missed the practices or not.

From the Triblive article posted up stream: "Sutton returned from his family in Georgia in time to attend the Chargers game but did not play."

So, not knowing the exact time of arrival, and the game was at 4, maybe he didn't meet the list required time... which I though was only 1 hour prior to kickoff. :noidea:

Ok. I guess you are on the right path with practice time and what-not. We will likely never know, as this is the kind of thing the Steelers don't typically disclose.

[pczach]

P-G article this afternoon confirms that Sutton was out on short notice and Steelers were left with few options with Burnett out as well

Smoke and mirrors: Why Steelers got stuck with LBs covering Keenan Allen

Sutton had to miss the game with a personal issue, and the Steelers did not know until late in the week that he would miss the game....

If Sutton, a trained cornerback, can play dime linebacker, then why not corners Artie Burns or Brian Allen?

Sutton explained how difficult it would be to perform on short notice, especially for someone who has never played the position.

“Playing inside in the dime and playing outside at corner, it’s a different mentality,” Sutton said. “A guy who has been consistently playing outside and then in 48 or 72 hours, you have to learn a position, learn what to do, study film … it can be a lot. You’re trying to get acclimated from moving outside to inside. Your entire thought process changes. Who are you working with now? What gap do I have to fit in the run game? I have to do this. I have to do that. It’s a lot of thinking. Even for me, it’s challenging.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/07/Steelers-smoke-and-mirrors-Cameron-Sutton-Morgan-Burnett-L-J-Fort/stories/201812070126

No surprise Burns was not an option since he allegedly is not smart enough to learn anything other than man to man coverage for his outside CB position

FWIW Burnett is no sure thing for the Oakland game

1071138970124386307


I get that guys were out. I understand that, but here's the thing. I can understand playing it the way they did on most downs, but that still doesn't explain why they didn't do something different on third and long or obvious passing situations. Just get another cornerback or safety into the game, play man coverage, and give him his responsibilities of who to cover. The likelihood of having to defend the run is nearly zero. In man coverage, there is no getting confused on responsibility as all that is handled on the field. What is this crap with the "no options" routine they are playing here. There are almost always options. They chose not to use them.

Marcus Allen did well when he was in there. Why wasn't he used more?

Remember, every time you saw a LB in coverage on Keenan Allen they were in man coverage. ANY man can cover another in man coverage. If it's third down and 9, they aren't going to run the ball. Get different personnel on the field.

In other words....improvise, adapt, overcome.

I hope they are teaching the position to some of the other players as we speak....:rolleyes:

[AtlantaDan]

I get that guys were out. I understand that, but here's the thing. I can understand playing it the way they did on most downs, but that still doesn't explain why they didn't do something different on third and long or obvious passing situations. Just get another cornerback or safety into the game, play man coverage, and give him his responsibilities of who to cover. The likelihood of having to defend the run is nearly zero. In man coverage, there is no getting confused on responsibility as all that is handled on the field. What is this crap with the "no options" routine they are playing here. There are almost always options. They chose not to use them.

Marcus Allen did well when he was in there. Why wasn't he used more?

Remember, every time you saw a LB in coverage on Keenan Allen they were in man coverage. ANY man can cover another in man coverage. If it's third down and 9, they aren't going to run the ball. Get different personnel on the field.

In other words....improvise, adapt, overcome.

I hope they are teaching the position to some of the other players as we speak....:rolleyes:

I certainly agree - just passing along the party line

Hoping the pass rush will not give Rivers time to find the Chargers best receiver running free against a LB in coverage is a prayer, not a coverage scheme

[pczach]

I certainly agree - just passing along the party line

Hoping the pass rush will not give Rivers time to find the Chargers best receiver running free against a LB in coverage is a prayer, not a coverage scheme



I wasn't responding to you personally Dan. I was commenting on the link you posted and what I thought of it. :drink:

I understand that there is a lot to know when you play a hybrid position, but I just wish they wouldn't insult our intelligence and hide their own anxieties about playing inexperienced players or making excuses for not taking a chance to try to fix an issue.

It sounds like someone was living in their fears. :chuckle:

[fansince'76]

I wasn't responding to you personally Dan. I was commenting on the link you posted and what I thought of it. :drink:

I understand that there is a lot to know when you play a hybrid position, but I just wish they wouldn't insult our intelligence and hide their own anxieties about playing inexperienced players or making excuses for not taking a chance to try to fix an issue.

It sounds like someone was living in their fears. :chuckle:

It's really not much different than when rookies were routinely rotting on the bench for 3 seasons (or longer) because "young players just couldn't grasp the 'mad scientist' defense" of LeBeau, though, is it? :rolleyes:

[teegre]

I saw somewhere that he was out last week to attend to a serious personal situation that the team decided to not release details of. Also think he is back in the fold this week and the player and team are not at odds or anything.

Not sure if this addresses your comment or not.

One thing about Tomlin: practice means something to him.

You practice; you play.
You don’t practice; you don’t play.

It says something to a player who busts his ass in practice: you have a chance to play (and move up the depth chart). As Bear Bryant once said: “Practice does not make perfect... perfect practice makes perfect.”

[Steeler-in-west]

Can we learn something from the Ravens defensive scheme? They seem to be doing ok today.