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AtlantaDan
11-28-2018, 12:00 PM
Radio Ben tore into AB, Washington and Fichtner for the 3rd down call that resulted in the INT on his weekly free association seminar yesterday

Ben doubles down today and says he is the captain so deal with it

“Being around for a long time and dealing with a lot of different players you have to know how to motivate different guys in different ways,” Roethlisberger said. “I think that’s part of being a leader, being a captain, just understanding players. Sometimes you just grab them off to the side and sometimes you have to be honest with them. I think I’ve earned the right to be able to do that with as long as I’ve been here. I’ll be just as critical on myself in front of you guys, as well.”

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/11/28/Ben-Roethlisberger-Antonio-Brown-James-Washington-Steelers-broncos-jaguars-JuJu-Smith-Schuster/stories/201811280126

Ben knows the window is closing and is going to be calling out anyone who screws up (including coaches :chuckle: )

86WARD
11-28-2018, 12:21 PM
Again...if you have a QB that’s not calling people out, he shouldn’t be an NFL QB. Just like AB should be me, me, me and just like JuJu should be me, me, me, Ben should be calling people out for not being in the right places...just like he takes the blame when it’s on him.

Non-story.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 12:22 PM
Ben doesn't throw INT's. Ben's OC and WR's make INT's happen.

AtlantaDan
11-28-2018, 12:39 PM
Again...if you have a QB that’s not calling people out, he shouldn’t be an NFL QB. Just like AB should be me, me, me and just like JuJu should be me, me, me, Ben should be calling people out for not being in the right places...just like he takes the blame when it’s on him.

Non-story.

Not every non-journeyman QB (I have followed Matt Ryan for 11 years now in Atlanta and he does not regularly do it) does it to the extent Ben does

It is paywalled but Mark Kaboly had a good article this week in The Athletic on how Ben’s radio show/therapy session is not the usual QB pablum (apparently Coach Todd used to tune in to hear if Ben ripped him)

Ben Roethlisberger's radio show has turned into a must-listen because he's 'not afraid to say things'
https://theathletic.com/608515/2018/11/26/ben-roethlisbergers-radio-cult-following/

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 12:49 PM
Not every non-journeyman QB (I have followed Matt Ryan for 11 years now in Atlanta and he does not regularly do it) does it to the extent Ben does
/ (https://theathletic.com/608515/2018/11/26/ben-roethlisbergers-radio-cult-following/)

Interesting, you mean guys like Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, Rivers, Manning, Ryan, Stafford, Cousins don't call out their teammates in public on a weekly basis?? Maybe the young guys like Wentz, Goff, Mahomes, Trubisky, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen will be a new generation that starts doing it more frequently. :noidea:

AtlantaDan
11-28-2018, 12:58 PM
Interesting, you mean guys like Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, Rivers, Manning, Ryan, Stafford, Cousins don't call out their teammates in public on a weekly basis?? Maybe the young guys like Wentz, Goff, Mahomes, Trubisky, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen will be a new generation that starts doing it more frequently. :noidea:


I said “not every” not “most” and gave an example of someone I actually follow

And I used Ryan as an example

I do not follow the entire league - maybe you do and are correct everyone you cited other than Ryan (I know Rivers, Brady & Rodgers do - Rodgers calls out his head coach) do it as often as Ben does :noidea:

st33lersguy
11-28-2018, 01:38 PM
Technically everyone on the team has the right to criticize any teammate they please. A WR on the practice squad has the right to call Ben a garbage QB and call Tomlin a head coach. Doesn't mean it's a good idea or good for the team

DesertSteel
11-28-2018, 01:42 PM
How many Bens are there???

Clutch Ben
Drama Ben
Injured Ben
Fake injury Ben
Pick Throwing Ben
Super Bowl Ben
Radio Ben
College Girls Ben

We'll miss them all when he becomes Retired Ben (may not that last one)...

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 01:46 PM
Technically everyone on the team has the right to criticize any teammate they please. A WR on the practice squad has the right to call Ben a garbage QB and call Tomlin a head coach. Doesn't mean it's a good idea or good for the team

So are you saying that Ben is incorrect, that he hasn't "earned" the right to criticize teammates and OC in public, but rather he is "entitled" to that right, as is anybody similarly entitled to criticize?

If that is the case, then I will criticize Ben for not throwing that 3rd down pass into the 5th row behind the end zone, rather than into the arms of a defensive lineman. I'm entitled to that right.

DesertSteel
11-28-2018, 01:49 PM
I have been on Steelers forums for 15 years and I feel like I have earned the right to criticize Ben, Tomlin, AB, et al. Those of you with fewer posts under your belt need to pipe down.

Shoes
11-28-2018, 01:58 PM
Well lets hope Ben calls out more than rookie Washington.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 01:59 PM
How many Bens are there???

Clutch Ben
Drama Ben
Injured Ben
Fake injury Ben
Pick Throwing Ben
Super Bowl Ben
Radio Ben
College Girls Ben

We'll miss them all when he becomes Retired Ben (may not that last one)...

Ya know, I got my young son a #7 jersey when Ben was drafted and my kid is now 17 years old. I have enjoyed what comes to the Steelers with having a top talented QB over that time, but I now realize that the real likelihood of winning another SB with Ben is pretty slim.

For a few years now, Ben has had the top WR and top RB in football with him, plus pro bowl caliber Offensive Linemen in front of him. Every year the great hope of offensive production, or 30 points a game has been talked about every training camp and the reality is that the last 3 trips to the Super Bowl for the Steelers were with the likes of Polamalu, Harrison, Taylor, Keisel, Farrior, Hampton, etc on the team.

Clutch Ben is entertaining to watch, but without having a few defensive pro bowl players on the Steelers team, Drama Ben, Radio Ben, Injured Ben is gonna help the team get to a wildcard game, maybe the next round and that is it. Because that is when Pick Throwing Ben will show up and start us on our next cycle of looking towards the draft. I think the sound that I heard isn't Radio Ben, but the window closing shut on his chance to win another Super Bowl.

Mojouw
11-28-2018, 02:07 PM
This is quickly circling the drain...gotta love armchair psychology to interpret sports results. I'm starting to think the team isn't really that "dramatic" but the fans certainly are.

Maybe you all need to talk it out with someone...really access those feelings...

AtlantaDan
11-28-2018, 02:23 PM
This is quickly circling the drain...gotta love armchair psychology to interpret sports results. I'm starting to think the team isn't really that "dramatic" but the fans certainly are.

Maybe you all need to talk it out with someone...really access those feelings...

The easy way to stop it would be for the QB to shut down his Tuesday morning free association binges - certainly gives the Steelers reporters story lines

With the Bell saga being over (#26 apparently now is flirting with the Colts - let fans of other teams deal with that) and AB having calmed down since earlier in the season the one stirring the pot is Ben

DesertSteel
11-28-2018, 02:27 PM
I'm starting to think the team isn't really that "dramatic" but the fans certainly are.

Just give us a radio show and sit back!!

st33lersguy
11-28-2018, 02:33 PM
So are you saying that Ben is incorrect, that he hasn't "earned" the right to criticize teammates and OC in public, but rather he is "entitled" to that right, as is anybody similarly entitled to criticize?

If that is the case, then I will criticize Ben for not throwing that 3rd down pass into the 5th row behind the end zone, rather than into the arms of a defensive lineman. I'm entitled to that right.

People are free to say whatever they want, they are just not free from the negative consequences/negative reactions from others.

Of course it would probably have been better if Ben chose to just address it with Washington directly and not broadcast his criticism to the media (something I wish was practiced more frequently on the team)

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 02:43 PM
the one stirring the pot is Ben

...and that is why I don't think he is going to win another Super Bowl in his career.

He is sitting back and trying to push along his team with peanut gallery criticism from a radio show, rather than leading from the front and bringing them along. I honestly think that the Super Bowl winning days were there with vocal leaders like Farrior, Porter, Bettis, while guys like Faneca, Marvel Smith, Heath Miller, Troy, James Harrison lead by example.

The current Steelers have deferred leadership to Ben and I don't know that enough players respect him enough to follow.

fansince'76
11-28-2018, 03:02 PM
For a few years now, Ben has had the top WR and top RB in football with him, plus pro bowl caliber Offensive Linemen in front of him.

Really? How many times was Bell available in the postseason? So it's now Ben's fault that a 4th-string RB coughs up the ball in a divisional round game on the road when the offense is driving to ice the game?

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 03:14 PM
Really? How many times was Bell available in the postseason? So it's now Ben's fault that a 4th-string RB coughs up the ball in a divisional round game on the road when the offense is driving to ice the game?

Really? You are going to say the fault of the loss is on a 4th string RB that scored the only TD in a 23-16 playoff game Boswell kicked 3FG's that day, Fitzgerald Toussaint scored 1 rushing TD that day and Ben threw 0 TD passes.

I think Steeler fans have been expecting their biggest stars to step up in the moment, but when they don't step up, its still easier to find somebody less significant to point to than their biggest stars when its time to blame.

Shoes
11-28-2018, 03:21 PM
It's a shame Haley was fired before Ben earned this right to call people out, that would have been entertaining! :lol:

https://twitter.com/dejan_kovacevic/status/930006866020757504

fansince'76
11-28-2018, 03:22 PM
Really? You are going to say the fault of the loss is on a 4th string RB that scored the only TD in a 23-16 playoff game Boswell kicked 3FG's that day, Fitzgerald Toussaint scored 1 rushing TD that day and Ben threw 0 TD passes.

I think Steeler fans have been expecting their biggest stars to step up in the moment, but when they don't step up, its still easier to find somebody less significant to point to than their biggest stars when its time to blame.

Bottom line: Steelers had the lead with the offense driving, Toussaint coughed it up, the Broncos then took the lead and won the game. Oh yeah, AB was absent for that game as well thanks to Burfict almost decapitating him the week before (one more reason I'd like to avoid the WC round).

So our starting skill players that day were Roethlisberger, Touissant, Bongtavis, Wheaton, Spaeth and Heath Miller.

Fun fact: Peyton Manning had zero TD passes that game as well (and a QB rating that was 20 points lower for the game than Roethlisberger's).


I think Steeler fans have been expecting their biggest stars to step up in the moment, but when they don't step up, its still easier to find somebody less significant to point to than their biggest stars when its time to blame.

Sounds awfully familiar...


Outside of Rodgers, Jones and Adams, the rest of the team is hot garbage including the coaching staff.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 03:38 PM
Bottom line: Steelers had the lead with the offense driving, Toussaint coughed it up, the Broncos then took the lead and won the game. Oh yeah, AB was absent for that game as well thanks to Burfict almost decapitating him the week before (one more reason I'd like to avoid the WC round).

So our starting skill players that day were Roethlisberger, Touissant, Bongtavis, Wheaton, Spaeth and Heath Miller.

Fun fact: Peyton Manning had zero TD passes that game as well (and a QB rating that was 20 points lower for the game than Roethlisberger's).

OK, so just like 2016, again Ben Roethlisberger is considered to be one of the great QB's in the NFL this season. He is again putting up good stats on the whole(except his league leading INT numbers). But when the team that he is the alleged leader of, seems to falter, he goes on his radio show and criticizes his OC, teammates, and anybody else he can think of.

Sadly, he isn't the kind of leader that everybody is going to follow. The Steelers miss guys with the leadership qualities of Ward, Bettis, Farrior, Porter and will likely not win another Lombardi this season due to that lack of leadership.

fansince'76
11-28-2018, 03:43 PM
OK, so just like 2016, again Ben Roethlisberger is considered to be one of the great QB's in the NFL this season. He is again putting up good stats on the whole(except his league leading INT numbers). But when the team that he is the alleged leader of, seems to falter, he goes on his radio show and criticizes his OC, teammates, and anybody else he can think of.

Sadly, he isn't the kind of leader that everybody is going to follow. The Steelers miss guys with the leadership qualities of Ward, Bettis, Farrior, Porter and will likely not win another Lombardi this season due to that lack of leadership.

Perhaps if Ben started questioning other players' manhood on national TV when they "tap out" due to a self-reported concussion...

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 04:00 PM
Perhaps if Ben started questioning other players' manhood on national TV when they "tap out" due to a self-reported concussion...

You can keep deflecting the topic, picking at comments, but the reality of the situation is that teammates responded to the leadership of guys like Ward, Bettis, Farrior, Porter...much better than Ben.

If you want to be specific about the concussion issue that you refer to, Ward actually apologized to his team publicly for creating a distraction by his comments. He didn't stand in front of his locker and state that he has "earned the right" to his comments.


Ward apologizes to Steelers

Ward had already apologized to Roethlisberger on Monday. Ward wasn't aware a team doctor had advised the quarterback not to play because of post-concussion headaches that followed each of the team's three practices last week.









Roethlisberger hasn't reported any headaches since Friday and practiced Wednesday for Sunday's game against the Oakland Raiders (http://www.espn.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak) (3-8).Ward is disappointed he spoke out of frustration in an NBC-TV interview taped Saturday night, not long after learning Roethlisberger wouldn't play in an important game for last season's Super Bowl champions."In hindsight, we're never going to jeopardize a man's health issues to play a game," Ward said Wednesday. "A lot of people forget, Ben came from a motorcycle incident [in 2006] and still had a lot of head trauma, so we don't want to ... push him to play a game. I wasn't trying to really not be concerned about his head injury. We were just frustrated we didn't have our starting quarterback."http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=4707191

AtlantaDan
11-28-2018, 04:07 PM
...and that is why I don't think he is going to win another Super Bowl in his career.

He is sitting back and trying to push along his team with peanut gallery criticism from a radio show, rather than leading from the front and bringing them along. I honestly think that the Super Bowl winning days were there with vocal leaders like Farrior, Porter, Bettis, while guys like Faneca, Marvel Smith, Heath Miller, Troy, James Harrison lead by example.

The current Steelers have deferred leadership to Ben and I don't know that enough players respect him enough to follow.

IMO members of the OL (DeCastro, Pouncey, Foster) and Heyward are leaders within the locker room who probably are not tuned out

Radio Ben is the QB in the role of “starring Ben Roethliberger as the Leader”

Radio Ben calling out AB for acting out on the sidelines or running a sloppy route might actually be a way to get AB to straighten up by embarrassing him - and saying the last series should have been 4 passes to JuJu might be a way to stroke JuJu’s ego (although doing little for Ben’s allegedly beloved OL or Conner’s shaky confidence)

But I agree a public shaming of Washington serves no purpose

Of course maybe it is just Ben having reached the stage of his career where he enjoys trolling to see what the reaction is (such as Radio Ben pondering retirement) :noidea: :chuckle:

stillers4me
11-28-2018, 04:11 PM
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- - - Updated - - -

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fansince'76
11-28-2018, 04:12 PM
You can keep deflecting the topic, picking at comments, but the reality of the situation is that teammates responded to the leadership of guys like Ward, Bettis, Farrior, Porter...much better than Ben.

Yeah, I can tell by the way DeCastro, Pouncey, et al. jump to his defense on the field...

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUo3p6MFXwgpzdeCy2/giphy.gif

If he was the insufferable prick you make him out to be, I doubt that happens.

Shoes
11-28-2018, 04:19 PM
Ben's problem has been saying things publicly that should remain private, between him and his teammates.

fansince'76
11-28-2018, 04:24 PM
Of course maybe it is just Ben having reached the stage of his career where he enjoys trolling to see what the reaction is (such as Radio Ben pondering retirement) :noidea: :chuckle:

I've been saying this for YEARS now. :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 04:32 PM
Yeah, I can tell by the way DeCastro, Pouncey, et al. jump to his defense on the field...

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUo3p6MFXwgpzdeCy2/giphy.gif

If he was the insufferable prick you make him out to be, I doubt that happens.

And where did I use the term "insufferable prick"? Keep deflecting the topic and manufacturing words if that is what makes you feel better.

This is about time for a Teegre summation...:

Ben as a football player: Hall of Fame career. Lots of TD's, but lots of bonehead throws that ended up in INT's. Kind of like Favre, without the country bumpkin persona.
Ben as a leader : Better to leave leadership to somebody else. Self-centered attitude and willingness to air out your thoughts in public, instead of talking to men face to face.

Mojouw
11-28-2018, 04:36 PM
I feel like people are reacting based on some mythologized dewy eyed concept of a "locker room". Do you seriously think that when Ben says a thing on the radio, that is the first time other members of the Pittsburgh Steelers have heard it? It may be the first time the Twitterverse and the other media has heard it, but I suspect it isn't news to Washington, AB, Juju, etc.

I feel like I can hear echoes of every youth coach and high school coach I ever had talking about "keeping it in the family" and "what goes on in here stays in here" and whatever other rah-rah team building nonsense they had for us that year in this thread.

Meanwhile, the "pot stirring" "dirty laundry airing" bad leader has a center who may retire when he hangs it up because he cant imagine playing for another QB. Decastro and the other lineman seem ready to decapitate dudes for their QB. Based on the few camera shots we see during games, the entire roster listens when Ben speaks on the sidelines during games. The entire defense seems to truly believe that if they get their QB the ball with at least 2 minutes left and only down one score or less, they will win the game.

I dunno, I see a 53 man roster who is more than ready to ride or die with their QB. I suspect Ben is kind of a jerk and likely not the easiest guy to get along with, but who the hell cares? These dudes don't need to be friends. They just need to work well enough together to make plays on Sundays. This isn't high school.

fansince'76
11-28-2018, 04:39 PM
And where did I use the term "insufferable prick"? Keep deflecting the topic and manufacturing words if that is what makes you feel better.

Ben as a leader : Better to leave leadership to somebody else. Self-centered attitude and willingness to air out your thoughts in public, instead of talking to men face to face.

Sure. And I'll completely forget about the innumerable times after a loss that I've watched Roethlisberger look straight into a TV camera and said "this loss is on me."

Shoes
11-28-2018, 04:48 PM
I feel like people are reacting based on some mythologized dewy eyed concept of a "locker room". Do you seriously think that when Ben says a thing on the radio, that is the first time other members of the Pittsburgh Steelers have heard it? It may be the first time the Twitterverse and the other media has heard it, but I suspect it isn't news to Washington, AB, Juju, etc.

I feel like I can hear echoes of every youth coach and high school coach I ever had talking about "keeping it in the family" and "what goes on in here stays in here" and whatever other rah-rah team building nonsense they had for us that year in this thread.

Meanwhile, the "pot stirring" "dirty laundry airing" bad leader has a center who may retire when he hangs it up because he cant imagine playing for another QB. Decastro and the other lineman seem ready to decapitate dudes for their QB. Based on the few camera shots we see during games, the entire roster listens when Ben speaks on the sidelines during games. The entire defense seems to truly believe that if they get their QB the ball with at least 2 minutes left and only down one score or less, they will win the game.

I dunno, I see a 53 man roster who is more than ready to ride or die with their QB. I suspect Ben is kind of a jerk and likely not the easiest guy to get along with, but who the hell cares? These dudes don't need to be friends. They just need to work well enough together to make plays on Sundays. This isn't high school.

That's just it, there is no point in saying it on the radio. What is gained with this?

Mojouw
11-28-2018, 04:56 PM
That's just it, there is no point in saying it on the radio. What is gained with this?

And there is no negative either. It is a neutral thing. These are grown-ass men doing grown men things. This is not some group of cliquey group of high school girls.

Does anyone really think that now AB is not going to run good routes or not get in shape because Ben did him dirty on the radio? That would just impact AB's "brand" and bottom line. These dudes get paid on performance in the ultimate what have you done for me lately league. AB starts running bad routes or dogging it to show up the QB who dissed him and the team goes after his $$$$.

And Ben is far from the only QB in the league who calls out teammates. Other teams have not disintegrated into some dysfunctional mess and neither will the Steelers. This is about the biggest non-issue that I can think of. Additionally, this has been going on for years. Now that Kaboly and other lazy writers have used it for a story everyone seems to be wringing their hands and clutching their pearls.

Fire Goodell
11-28-2018, 04:56 PM
Radio Ben sounds like a cool nickname

Shoes
11-28-2018, 05:12 PM
And there is no negative either. It is a neutral thing. These are grown-ass men doing grown men things. This is not some group of cliquey group of high school girls.

Does anyone really think that now AB is not going to run good routes or not get in shape because Ben did him dirty on the radio? That would just impact AB's "brand" and bottom line. These dudes get paid on performance in the ultimate what have you done for me lately league. AB starts running bad routes or dogging it to show up the QB who dissed him and the team goes after his $$$$.

And Ben is far from the only QB in the league who calls out teammates. Other teams have not disintegrated into some dysfunctional mess and neither will the Steelers. This is about the biggest non-issue that I can think of. Additionally, this has been going on for years. Now that Kaboly and other lazy writers have used it for a story everyone seems to be wringing their hands and clutching their pearls.


There sure as hell is, by "Kaboly and other lazy writers." Nothing is gained by publicly calling out a player. This would never be done by a good manager in a common workplace.

AtlantaDan
11-28-2018, 05:26 PM
And there is no negative either. It is a neutral thing. These are grown-ass men doing grown men things. This is not some group of cliquey group of high school girls.

Does anyone really think that now AB is not going to run good routes or not get in shape because Ben did him dirty on the radio? That would just impact AB's "brand" and bottom line. These dudes get paid on performance in the ultimate what have you done for me lately league. AB starts running bad routes or dogging it to show up the QB who dissed him and the team goes after his $$$$. .,.

Now that Kaboly and other lazy writers have used it for a story everyone seems to be wringing their hands and clutching their pearls.

Kaboly published the story on Ben’s radio appearances on Monday before Ben went off yesterday.

FWIW Kaboly was not clutching his pearls or criticizing but noted Ben actually generates coverage of what is said unlike most QBs who have their obligatory radio appearance and say nothing. Guess he called that, eh?

I agree nothing Ben says on the radio is likely to be news to his teammates (although Ben said in the story he knew coaches “used to listen” to hear what Ben said (Coach Todd? :chuckle: ) and Ben has used the show for Dr. Ben injury updates that have been news to Tomlin)

And it is a business - whether or not Ben is beloved in the locker room is more or less irrelevant - lots of successful operations put up with jerks who enhance the bottom line

And in the case of AB (who is having a very good but not typical AB season) I think Ben has known AB long enough to think a public shaming might result in less sloppy routes such as the one Ben said was run in the end zone

But criticizing the play calling is a cheap shot (just check out of the damn play) and contributes to the impression Fichtner is Ben’s poodle. And Ben may not be the best assessor of which young players that are struggling, such as Washington, will respond positively to being called out (note he is not calling out Conner for his drops and fumbles).

So maybe after throwing 5 picks in the past 2 games while the offense has had trouble scoring it simply might not be a best practice to go off on anyone else :noidea:

Of course we will miss all of this in the not too distant future when Ben is retired while the Steelers are slogging through another 6-10 season as the Browns seek to repeat as Super Bowl champs

Shoes
11-28-2018, 05:30 PM
Kaboly published the story on Ben’s radio appearances on Monday before Ben went off yesterday.

FWIW Kaboly was not clutching his pearls or criticizing but noted Ben actually generates coverage of what is said unlike most QBs who have their obligatory radio appearance and say nothing. Guess he called that, eh?

I agree nothing Ben says on the radio is likely to be news to his teammates (although Kaboly implied Haley was a listener since that was Ben’s forum of choice for taking shots at Coach Todd and Ben has used the show for Dr. Ben injury updates that have been news to Tomlin)

And it is a business - whether or not Ben is beloved in the locker room is more or less irrelevant - lots of successful operations put up with jerks who enhance the bottom line

And in the case of AB (who is having a very good but not typical AB season) I think Ben has known AB long enough to think a public shaming might result in less sloppy routes such as the one Ben said was run in the end zone

But criticizing the play calling is a cheap shot (just check out of the damn play) and contributes to the impression Fichtner is Ben’s poodle. And Ben may not be the best assessor of which young players that are struggling, such as Washington, will respond positively to criticism (note he is not calling out Conner for his drops
and fumbles).

So maybe after throwing 5 picks in the past 2 games while the offense has had trouble scoring it simply might not be a best practice to go off on anyone else :noidea:

Of course we will miss all of this in the not too distant future when Ben is retired while the Steelers are slogging through another 6-10 season as the Browns seek to repeat as Super Bowl champs


Maybe then we'll get a TE. :lol:

Istina
11-28-2018, 06:04 PM
There sure as hell is, by "Kaboly and other lazy writers." Nothing is gained by publicly calling out a player. This would never be done by a good manager in a common workplace.

I don't know that I'd equate Ben to a manager, that would be Tomlin and he never called out anyone in public that I can remember. Ben on the other hand is an employee and employees call each out on the regular in the workplace if someone isn't holding up their end of the deal.

Carolina Steelers
11-28-2018, 06:07 PM
I agree Ben has earned the right to criticize I get it, but I’ve always like to praise in public and criticize in private. Washington being a young player maybe he has 4-6 Sunday night and a TD then we’ll be saying see it worked. Or if Washington drops 2 passes and one is crucial we’ll be saying it didn’t work. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shoes
11-28-2018, 06:14 PM
I don't know that I'd equate Ben to a manager, that would be Tomlin and he never called out anyone in public that I can remember. Ben on the other hand is an employee and employees call each out on the regular in the workplace if someone isn't holding up their end of the deal.

He's a captain of the team and Offensive team "leader" that's manager enough. I do agree with you on Tomlin, maybe Ben should follow his lead.

Mojouw
11-28-2018, 06:21 PM
There sure as hell is, by "Kaboly and other lazy writers." Nothing is gained by publicly calling out a player. This would never be done by a good manager in a common workplace.

What is the negative? Some sportswriter wrote a piece that puts the story in the media eye? Oh no! Cancel the playoffs! Break up the team! These guys will never be able to make it work!

Honestly, what will the impact of Ben's comments be on the field this Sunday? Next Sunday? A month from now?

I've started a shift in shouting matches with a co-worker before. Ended the day hitting all our goals and going for tacos and beers. And that was for far less stakes than an NFL football game. I think these guys might be able to figure it out.

To be crystal clear, I think that Ben is an ego driven guy who likes to humble brag whenever possible and blame shift when things get really dicey. I also think he over-dramatizes stuff and is most likely not that great of a dude. So what? This is not news to anyone, much less his team mates. He has done this before. Off the top of my head, with Martavis Bryant and dude went out and blew up on the field including that ridiculous somersaulting TD catch against the Bengals.

Long story short, this kinda crap happens all the time and is latched onto by fans as some sort of window into the soul of a football team or something and is read into like the divine oracles of old. At the end of the day it doesn't mean that much.

Shoes
11-28-2018, 06:33 PM
What is the negative? Some sportswriter wrote a piece that puts the story in the media eye? Oh no! Cancel the playoffs! Break up the team! These guys will never be able to make it work!

Honestly, what will the impact of Ben's comments be on the field this Sunday? Next Sunday? A month from now?

I've started a shift in shouting matches with a co-worker before. Ended the day hitting all our goals and going for tacos and beers. And that was for far less stakes than an NFL football game. I think these guys might be able to figure it out.

To be crystal clear, I think that Ben is an ego driven guy who likes to humble brag whenever possible and blame shift when things get really dicey. I also think he over-dramatizes stuff and is most likely not that great of a dude. So what? This is not news to anyone, much less his team mates. He has done this before. Off the top of my head, with Martavis Bryant and dude went out and blew up on the field including that ridiculous somersaulting TD catch against the Bengals.

Long story short, this kinda crap happens all the time and is latched onto by fans as some sort of window into the soul of a football team or something and is read into like the divine oracles of old. At the end of the day it doesn't mean that much.

Nothing is negative, Ben has earned the right. :cookie::cookie:

86WARD
11-28-2018, 06:37 PM
They should cut Ben today and sign a street free agent like Mark Sanchez and just win the Super Bowl with Dobbs. Ben sucks, he throws too many interceptions, criticizes too many fellow players (constructive criticism like telling the receiver where to run the route doesn’t count...that’s bad too), constructive criticism is the worst and he goes on and speaks to much running his mouth on a radio show. Clearly the team has no respect for him...especially Pouncey...that dude hates Ben’s hands up his ass. Hopefully he retires after this season, if they don’t cut him first, and they don’t have to deal with his QB skills anymore...or lack of skills.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 06:38 PM
Sure. And I'll completely forget about the innumerable times after a loss that I've watched Roethlisberger look straight into a TV camera and said "this loss is on me."

Go ahead, keep parsing posts and deflecting from the original discussion.

It doesn't change the fact that Ben seems to like talking more about members of his team so they hear it on the radio first, instead of talking to them face to face like a grown up.

86WARD
11-28-2018, 06:43 PM
Not every non-journeyman QB (I have followed Matt Ryan for 11 years now in Atlanta and he does not regularly do it) does it to the extent Ben does

It is paywalled but Mark Kaboly had a good article this week in The Athletic on how Ben’s radio show/therapy session is not the usual QB pablum (apparently Coach Todd used to tune in to hear if Ben ripped him)

Ben Roethlisberger's radio show has turned into a must-listen because he's 'not afraid to say things'
https://theathletic.com/608515/2018/11/26/ben-roethlisbergers-radio-cult-following/

Lol. Really? Ryan is seen yelling at receivers all the time, he criticized Shanahans play calling in the Super Bowl. Maybe he doesn’t do it on a radio show, maybe you don’t follow Ryan as much as you follow Ben and maybe the Steelers beat writers write more stories about the Steelers then the Falcons best writers just because people car more for the Steelers and there’s a bigger fan base.

Lol. A QB that sits quiet is a QB that sucks.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-28-2018, 06:43 PM
Vintage Ben from last season vs Patriots. Throws the coaches under the bus in a press conference. Basically says "the loss is on me for listening to the coaches".

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Ben Roethlisberger says "I'll take the blame for the INT at the end of the game." Says in hindsight, he should've listened to himself and not the coaches, and just spike the ball as he wanted to - and as his teammates expected.

8:13 AM - 19 Dec 2017


In other words, “Yeah it’s my fault … for not doing what I actually wanted to do.”Roethlisberger makes it sound like an either/or decision: Either I spike the ball or throw the interception. That’s not how it works. The throw wasn’t there. There was still time left on the clock for the game-tying field goal. Just throw it away.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/12/nfl-steelers-patriots-ben-roethlisberger-fake-spike-interception-blame-coaches

86WARD
11-28-2018, 06:48 PM
Go ahead, keep parsing posts and deflecting from the original discussion.

It doesn't change the fact that Ben seems to like talking more about members of his team so they hear it on the radio first, instead of talking to them face to face like a grown up.

Because you know what he says to them on the sideline and in the locker room? Lol. You also know how and what they respond to better than Ben would. I get it now...

GBMelBlount
11-28-2018, 06:48 PM
I have been on Steelers forums for 15 years and I feel like I have earned the right to criticize Ben, Tomlin, AB, et al. Those of you with fewer posts under your belt need to pipe down.

:toofunny:

Personally, while I enjoy the forum banter over topics like this in general, it is most enjoyable when wit & humor is injected.

GBMelBlount
11-28-2018, 07:00 PM
I am curious if people feel Cam Heywards more general criticism earlier this seaon is a better approach?


Heyward noted that players need to work together to fix the issue.

"It's assignment football and being more accountable," Heyward said. "It's understanding rush and coverage work together. If the rush doesn't get there,

we have to get our hands up.

We have to get better push.

And our secondary has to make some plays.

If we're in man, we have to keep our leverage inside.

In the run game, we have to be in our gaps and stay sound, not shooting blocks and trying to make plays.

Our defense isn't about making plays. It's about doing your job.

That's for everyone out there. I don't give a [darn] if I never get a sack again. But if everyone else does their job and we get off the field, then so be it."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000969279/article/cam-heyward-either-buy-in-or-dont-get-on-the-field

DesertSteel
11-28-2018, 07:03 PM
Do you seriously think that when Ben says a thing on the radio, that is the first time other members of the Pittsburgh Steelers have heard it?
Honest answer: Yes. Ben has a passive aggressive personality type and I can easily see him hiding behind a microphone and not telling someone to their face.

That said, I really don't care about this latest drama. It's not just the fans on this forum who overreact after a loss - the players do too. Time to move on to the Chargers...

- - - Updated - - -


Because you know what he says to them on the sideline and in the locker room? Lol. You also know how and what they respond to better than Ben would. I get it now...
If you said it to their face what would be the need to go 'spank' them in public? That would be very bizarre.

86WARD
11-28-2018, 07:24 PM
Honest answer: Yes. Ben has a passive aggressive personality type and I can easily see him hiding behind a microphone and not telling someone to their face.

That said, I really don't care about this latest drama. It's not just the fans on this forum who overreact after a loss - the players do too. Time to move on to the Chargers...

- - - Updated - - -


If you said it to their face what would be the need to go 'spank' them in public? That would be very bizarre.

Lol...constructive criticism is far from “spanking them” in public and actually with how intelligent the football fan is getting, he’s giving those exactly what they want...a description and breakdown of the plays...what went right and what went wrong. Saying that Brown should flatten the route, that he didn’t know why Washington is diving is hardly something that should hurt a players feeling...if it does, they shouldn’t be playing football. Maybe each week Ben should give Washington a participation sticker or glitter star on his helmet for doing a good job? Not to mention the fact that he’s filling content and answering questions on a dopey radio show.

DesertSteel
11-28-2018, 07:46 PM
I think Washington needs to participate before he gets a sticker. I’m leaning towards bust after that game. I hope I’m wrong.

vasteeler
11-28-2018, 07:53 PM
I think Washington needs to participate before he gets a sticker. I’m leaning towards bust after that game. I hope I’m wrong.

Agreed. I hope he's not another Limas Sweed.

AtlantaDan
11-28-2018, 09:30 PM
Lol. Really? Ryan is seen yelling at receivers all the time, he criticized Shanahans play calling in the Super Bowl. Maybe he doesn’t do it on a radio show, maybe you don’t follow Ryan as much as you follow Ben and maybe the Steelers beat writers write more stories about the Steelers then the Falcons best writers just because people car more for the Steelers and there’s a bigger fan base.

Lol. A QB that sits quiet is a QB that sucks.

Maybe you believe yelling at receivers during the game is the same as going on sports talk radio Tuesday morning to drop bombs but I respectfully disagree

As far as coverage & interest, Atlanta has pretty much the same media set up as Pittsburgh - monopoly newspaper (AJC compared to P-G), two sports talk stations (do not know if Pitt has 2 or just the one Ben spouts off on), local TV for all major networks, local bureau of The Athletic that covers local teams, ESPN.com coverage. As far as passive reporting, Ed Bouchette and Gerry Dulac of the P-G are not exactly the Woodward & Bernstein of aggressive local NFL coverage

Main difference is the local Atlanta market is 5.5 million metro rather than 2 million metro population like Pittsburgh (the two metros were the same size when I moved to Atlanta in the 80s) - so it is not as if the Falcons play in a backwater like Jacksonville with a small fan base and the media just reports game highlights

As far as Ryan going after Shanahan's play calling after a bitter Super Bowl loss (which Ryan at least tried to clean up at the start of the next season), that was a day at the beach compared to Ben's passive aggressive behavior with Coach Todd for six freaking seasons.

Bottom line is Ben is a great QB (certainly better than Ryan) but also someone who likes to share his views and has thrown off quotable stuff of sometimes dubious credibility since his rookie year more than other QBs - he got into it with Cowher after the "broken toes" in his first season and it has gone on from there

:drink:

fansince'76
11-28-2018, 10:40 PM
Because you know what he says to them on the sideline and in the locker room? Lol. You also know how and what they respond to better than Ben would. I get it now...

This.


As far as Ryan going after Shanahan's play calling after a bitter Super Bowl loss (which Ryan at least tried to clean up at the start of the next season), that was a day at the beach compared to Ben's passive aggressive behavior with Coach Todd for six freaking seasons.

And considering Coach Todd's rather brief tenure in Cleveland, perhaps Ben had a point? It wasn't exactly like he was butting heads with Bill Walsh.

AtlantaDan
11-28-2018, 11:05 PM
And considering Coach Todd's rather brief tenure in Cleveland, perhaps Ben had a point?

Haley is a jackass who has been booted out of every job since he was OC with the Cardinals - although based on what has come out about Hue Jackson from Browns players, Coach Todd may have been brought in by a HC who still wanted to call plays and was a snake

Regardless of Haley’s issues, Ben was bitching from the start about no longer being able to play Arians Hero Ball after AJRII forced BA out

I guess it depends on whether it is better to have an OC who indulges you or one that forced you to adjust your game and add about 5 years to your career along with about $100 million in additional income

fansince'76
11-28-2018, 11:11 PM
Haley is a jackass who has been booted out of every job since he was OC with the Cardinals - although based on what has come out about Hue Jackson from Browns players, Coach Todd may have been brought in by a HC who still wanted to call plays and was a snake

Regardless of Haley’s issues, Ben was bitching from the start about no longer being able to play Arians Hero Ball after AJRII forced BA out

I guess it depends on whether it is better to have an OC who indulges you or one that forced you to adjust your game and add about 5 years to your career along with about $100 million in additional income

I credit Munchak for that far more than I do Haley, personally. Ben continued to take a beating on a regular basis until Munchak arrived in 2014.



The schemes have changed, but the beatings have remained the same for Ben Roethlisberger.
Actually, they’ve gotten worse.

The Steelers quarterback is getting sacked at a higher rate than when he was playing under coordinator Bruce Arians, who was criticized for not sufficiently protecting the investment.

According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the 26 sacks Roethlisberger has absorbed so far puts him on pace for 59, well beyond his career-high of 50 — if he makes it that long.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/01/ben-roethlisberger-taking-hits-at-record-rates/

Butch
11-29-2018, 04:01 AM
Really? You are going to say the fault of the loss is on a 4th string RB that scored the only TD in a 23-16 playoff game Boswell kicked 3FG's that day, Fitzgerald Toussaint scored 1 rushing TD that day and Ben threw 0 TD passes.

I think Steeler fans have been expecting their biggest stars to step up in the moment, but when they don't step up, its still easier to find somebody less significant to point to than their biggest stars when its time to blame.

Where was Ben's #1 RB and #1 WR for that game? Both were injured the game before. Matter of fact Ben was playing hurt from the game before as well, but well he played so let's hold his feet to the fire. Certainly don't want to blame the Defense for not making a play when we needed it.

Now let's look at that great O-line that Ben had in SB 43, the one that got caught holding in the endzone and gave up a safety late in the game. Same O-line that on the very next play from scrimmage took another penalty before Ben drove us down the field for the game winning TD. Who did Ben call out that game? Oh yeah the O-line for the win.

How bout that Great D you mentioned. What did they do with the game on the line and all we needed was a stop? Oh yeah they gave up a Touchdown to Fitzgerald. Good thing they did it quickly so that Ben had enough time to drive the field and win the game. I guess maybe at least for that day Ben was the leader who stepped up when it was time to be Great.Don't get me wrong that was a Great D, but they were a hell of a lot better with Ben as the QB than whoever his backup was at the time.

a couple weeks ago it was the Jags game. Ben threw some int's in that game too. I even hear that some on this very board wanted Dobbs. ROFLMAO!!! that is beyond hilarious. One of those int's was in the endzone when Ramsey jumped over ABs head to get the ball. Is this Ben's fault for forcing the ball to one of our "Greats" and expecting him to make a play, or did Ramsey simply want the ball more? I am guessing it's all on Ben. You seem to believe that Ben's int. alone cost us the last game, I am guessing you are willing to concede that his TD run the game before was the only reason we won against Jax?

I certainly hope that when Ben steps down we have his replacement waiting on the sidelines, but if not I am sure we will all be grateful that, even though we are not winning games, we don't have the drama. :jerkit:

Six Rings
11-29-2018, 07:14 AM
He's earned the right to say what he wants. But there is a difference between calling Washington out ( 25 targets, under 100 receiving yards ) and calling out a more established veteran, like say Sean Davis who stunk up the joint in Denver.

86WARD
11-29-2018, 08:55 AM
Maybe you believe yelling at receivers during the game is the same as going on sports talk radio Tuesday morning to drop bombs but I respectfully disagree

As far as coverage & interest, Atlanta has pretty much the same media set up as Pittsburgh - monopoly newspaper (AJC compared to P-G), two sports talk stations (do not know if Pitt has 2 or just the one Ben spouts off on), local TV for all major networks, local bureau of The Athletic that covers local teams, ESPN.com coverage. As far as passive reporting, Ed Bouchette and Gerry Dulac of the P-G are not exactly the Woodward & Bernstein of aggressive local NFL coverage

Main difference is the local Atlanta market is 5.5 million metro rather than 2 million metro population like Pittsburgh (the two metros were the same size when I moved to Atlanta in the 80s) - so it is not as if the Falcons play in a backwater like Jacksonville with a small fan base and the media just reports game highlights

As far as Ryan going after Shanahan's play calling after a bitter Super Bowl loss (which Ryan at least tried to clean up at the start of the next season), that was a day at the beach compared to Ben's passive aggressive behavior with Coach Todd for six freaking seasons.

Bottom line is Ben is a great QB (certainly better than Ryan) but also someone who likes to share his views and has thrown off quotable stuff of sometimes dubious credibility since his rookie year more than other QBs - he got into it with Cowher after the "broken toes" in his first season and it has gone on from there

:drink:

But he didn’t drop “bombs”. Saying a receiver should flatten a route or God forbid “not dive” is far from dropping bombs...lol.

Atlanta’s Fan Base is no where near that of the Steelers.

Haley clearly has had issues with all his players. But not really a point of the conversation. No need to derail. Point is...Ben Criticizes. Ryan Criticizes. Doesn’t matter who or what. Plain and simple. Ben’s also a better QB than Ryan so maybe Ryan should criticize more...or maybe he’s satisfied with not being great.

FrancoLambert
11-29-2018, 09:05 AM
Radio Ben should have criticized himself first for the interception late in the third quarter.
Up by 7, and driving to take control of the game, he throws a pick that completely changes the momentum.
Conner then adds to it with his fumble.
Then, the icing on the cake is his (or was it Fichtner’s) interception at the end of the game.
:violin:

Shoes
11-29-2018, 09:18 AM
But he didn’t drop “bombs”. Saying a receiver should flatten a route or God forbid “not dive” is far from dropping bombs...lol.

Atlanta’s Fan Base is no where near that of the Steelers.

Haley clearly has had issues with all his players. But not really a point of the conversation. No need to derail. Point is...Ben Criticizes. Ryan Criticizes. Doesn’t matter who or what. Plain and simple. Ben’s also a better QB than Ryan so maybe Ryan should criticize more...or maybe he’s satisfied with not being great.


Ben doesn't drop fart bombs, he specializes in the drive-by fart bomb. You know like when you're at work and someone rips one as they walk by and keeps on going while you're left with a lingering fart. :chuckle:

tube517
11-29-2018, 09:32 AM
Ben doesn't drop fart bombs, he specializes in the drive-by fart bomb. You know like when you're at work and someone rips one as they walk by and keeps on going while you're left with a lingering fart. :chuckle:

Ben's stomach earns the right to fart once in a while. BTW, when Ben left the game the other day, someone in our local Steelers group said they thought he went to take a dump. :noidea: :chuckle:

86WARD
11-29-2018, 10:00 AM
Ben doesn't drop fart bombs, he specializes in the drive-by fart bomb. You know like when you're at work and someone rips one as they walk by and keeps on going while you're left with a lingering fart. :chuckle:

The old crop dust method. Lol.

86WARD
11-29-2018, 10:01 AM
Ben's stomach earns the right to fart once in a while. BTW, when Ben left the game the other day, someone in our local Steelers group said they thought he went to take a dump. :noidea: :chuckle:

Was definitely #1. Too fast to be a #2 with that equipment on.

AtlantaDan
11-29-2018, 10:08 AM
But he didn’t drop “bombs”. Saying a receiver should flatten a route or God forbid “not dive” is far from dropping bombs...lol.

Atlanta’s Fan Base is no where near that of the Steelers.

Haley clearly has had issues with all his players. But not really a point of the conversation. No need to derail. Point is...Ben Criticizes. Ryan Criticizes. Doesn’t matter who or what. Plain and simple. Ben’s also a better QB than Ryan so maybe Ryan should criticize more...or maybe he’s satisfied with not being great.

You seemed to indicate Ryan gets softer local coverage unlike the supposedly aggressive Pittsburgh sports media with Ben then shift it to which team has the more devoted fan base

Move the goalposts wherever you want and thanks for educating me on how much I did not know about Atlanta and the Falcons :drink:

I will attribute my impression Ben is an outlier for how chatty he gets with the media about the shortcomings of his teammates to my lack of information

86WARD
11-29-2018, 10:19 AM
No. It’s been the same Narrative all along. Pittsburgh has more
Followers, more fan base, more coverage, therefore these type of stories have more legs than those from Atlanta/Matt Ryan would. Ben is more of a media personality, interest story than Matt Ryan...lol. It’s actually not even close.

Your welcome. It’s really not that hard a concept to understand if you’ve followed Ben throughout his career and the development of the NFL and media over time.

But for the sake of time...I’ll agree. Nobody/No QB (good QB) calls anyone else out...especially a teammate that shouldn’t dive or a WR that should flatten a route. Gosh darn that’s some harsh shit there...lol. And he did it on a radio show...lol.

AtlantaDan
11-29-2018, 10:45 AM
No. It’s been the same Narrative all along. Pittsburgh has more
Followers, more fan base, more coverage, therefore these type of stories have more legs than those from Atlanta/Matt Ryan would. Ben is more of a media personality, interest story than Matt Ryan...lol. It’s actually not even close.

Your welcome. It’s really not that hard a concept to understand if you’ve followed Ben throughout his career and the development of the NFL and media over time.

But for the sake of time...I’ll agree. Nobody/No QB (good QB) calls anyone else out...especially a teammate that shouldn’t dive or a WR that should flatten a route. Gosh darn that’s some harsh shit there...lol. And he did it on a radio show...lol.

Some others disagree with your position but they only follow the league for a living.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/ben-roethlisberger-pittsburgh-steelers-frustrated-week-12-performance?ls=pftvod

Safe to say we are not going to change each other's views on this :chuckle: :drink:

But NBC is happy Ben gave Dungy and Harrison a topic for discussion on the Sunday night pregame show

86WARD
11-29-2018, 11:00 AM
It’s a non-story that people are giving legs. It’s actually quite funny how everyday comments are getting blown out of proportion. Not really sure two more harmless things could be said to garner such attention.

Guess Ben shoulda said AB ran a great route that gave him no chance to catch a pass and wow that was quite the dive by Washington. Too bad he didn’t catch it. Darn.

:coffee:

Shoes
11-29-2018, 11:21 AM
Sanders on Ben.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/11/emmanuel-sanders-on-how-steelers-wrs-should-respond-to-roethlisbergers-criticism

DesertSteel
11-29-2018, 01:13 PM
Sanders on Ben.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/11/emmanuel-sanders-on-how-steelers-wrs-should-respond-to-roethlisbergers-criticism
Sanders is right.

fansince'76
11-29-2018, 02:17 PM
Ah, Sanders - another one who couldn't catch a cold when he was in the B&G.

And of course, the "consummate leader" (according to Sanders) Peyton Manning NEVER passed the buck or threw his teammates under the bus in public after a loss. :rolleyes:

Yo, Emmanuel, don't look now but your team is 5-6, 3rd in its division and still on the outside looking in as far as playoff seeding is concerned, so you really ought to tend to your own knitting... :coffee:

Mojouw
11-29-2018, 02:34 PM
Actually listen/read what Ben said -- most commentators don't seem to have -- and it is some pretty benign stuff. He basically indicates him an AB talk about how to freelance and adjust routes on RPO plays. Imagine the hue and cry if they didn't do that?

"Looking at it on film, I can't tell if he would've caught it or not, obviously, but he did undercut AB. So who knows what would've happened? That's where I talk to AB, like, 'AB, you have to come flat. You can't drift in the end zone, because those undercuts can happen.' So would the guy have had a chance? Yes, I definitely think he would've had a chance. I can't control that guy. I can only control the safety and if he comes and takes the run away, I can throw it over his head."

That isn't exactly throwing AB under the bus. He simply said that the play situation caused him to believe the best opportunity was to try and put the ball in a spot his all world WR would beat the DB to. If Ben and AB weren't thinking of the same spot -- that is what Ben's comments are directed at. He later goes on to say that he should've thrown the ball away.

For Washington, he is relating what happened in film study and criticism that has already been directed towards Washington by multiple coaches and Ben himself in the privacy of the locker room:

"I think he just didn't trust his hands. For some reason he jumped/drove. I'm not really sure what he's doing. We looked at it. Coach got on him pretty good yesterday. We took a long hard look at it. James just needs to run through it, and it's a touchdown. ... James, he needs to make that play. Yes, he's a rookie, but you cant be out there if you're not gonna make those plays for us." "When I said 'confidence,' I think he needs to have confidence in himself. I think when you leave your feet for a ball that you don't need to leave your feet for — it's not just me, this is, I think, if you ask receivers, if you ask coaches, if you ask people around the NFL — it's the same sort of thing if you talk about a DB who's having issues intercepting a ball, they're trying to catch it with their chest or their body, right?
“When receivers are having issues, they're trying to catch it in their bellies instead of trusting their hands, right? When you trust and you have confidence in yourself, you use your hands and you catch the ball. I just felt like when he jumped and dove, whatever you want to call it, that just to me show showed a lack of confidence in himself and his hands. I have the confidence in him. I mean, I wouldn't have thrown it to him if I didn't. He needs to just have the trust and confidence in himself, and he needs to bounce back, right? We need him to bounce back and make some plays this week for us."

That isn't exactly torching a guy. I mean, I wish my supervisors criticized me that gently.

Shoes
11-29-2018, 02:42 PM
Ah, Sanders - another one who couldn't catch a cold when he was in the B&G.

And of course, the "consummate leader" (according to Sanders) Peyton Manning NEVER passed the buck or threw his teammates under the bus in public after a loss. :rolleyes:


His hands sure improved in Denver! I always liked Sanders good player and attitude and has something AB doesn't. Sadly, I doubt AB will get a ring in Pittsburgh.

- - - Updated - - -


Actually listen/read what Ben said -- most commentators don't seem to have -- and it is some pretty benign stuff. He basically indicates him an AB talk about how to freelance and adjust routes on RPO plays. Imagine the hue and cry if they didn't do that?

"Looking at it on film, I can't tell if he would've caught it or not, obviously, but he did undercut AB. So who knows what would've happened? That's where I talk to AB, like, 'AB, you have to come flat. You can't drift in the end zone, because those undercuts can happen.' So would the guy have had a chance? Yes, I definitely think he would've had a chance. I can't control that guy. I can only control the safety and if he comes and takes the run away, I can throw it over his head."

That isn't exactly throwing AB under the bus. He simply said that the play situation caused him to believe the best opportunity was to try and put the ball in a spot his all world WR would beat the DB to. If Ben and AB weren't thinking of the same spot -- that is what Ben's comments are directed at. He later goes on to say that he should've thrown the ball away.

For Washington, he is relating what happened in film study and criticism that has already been directed towards Washington by multiple coaches and Ben himself in the privacy of the locker room:

"I think he just didn't trust his hands. For some reason he jumped/drove. I'm not really sure what he's doing. We looked at it. Coach got on him pretty good yesterday. We took a long hard look at it. James just needs to run through it, and it's a touchdown. ... James, he needs to make that play. Yes, he's a rookie, but you cant be out there if you're not gonna make those plays for us." "When I said 'confidence,' I think he needs to have confidence in himself. I think when you leave your feet for a ball that you don't need to leave your feet for — it's not just me, this is, I think, if you ask receivers, if you ask coaches, if you ask people around the NFL — it's the same sort of thing if you talk about a DB who's having issues intercepting a ball, they're trying to catch it with their chest or their body, right?
“When receivers are having issues, they're trying to catch it in their bellies instead of trusting their hands, right? When you trust and you have confidence in yourself, you use your hands and you catch the ball. I just felt like when he jumped and dove, whatever you want to call it, that just to me show showed a lack of confidence in himself and his hands. I have the confidence in him. I mean, I wouldn't have thrown it to him if I didn't. He needs to just have the trust and confidence in himself, and he needs to bounce back, right? We need him to bounce back and make some plays this week for us."

That isn't exactly torching a guy. I mean, I wish my supervisors criticized me that gently.

Do they do it privately or go on your local PBS station and tell you?

fansince'76
11-29-2018, 02:45 PM
His hands sure improved in Denver! I always liked Sanders good player and attitude and has something AB doesn't.

Something to be said for being lucky and in the right place at the right time...

Shoes
11-29-2018, 02:51 PM
Something to be said for being lucky and in the right place at the right time...

True, Sanders seems very happy, AB not so much.

cubanstogie
11-29-2018, 02:51 PM
Actually listen/read what Ben said -- most commentators don't seem to have -- and it is some pretty benign stuff. He basically indicates him an AB talk about how to freelance and adjust routes on RPO plays. Imagine the hue and cry if they didn't do that?

"Looking at it on film, I can't tell if he would've caught it or not, obviously, but he did undercut AB. So who knows what would've happened? That's where I talk to AB, like, 'AB, you have to come flat. You can't drift in the end zone, because those undercuts can happen.' So would the guy have had a chance? Yes, I definitely think he would've had a chance. I can't control that guy. I can only control the safety and if he comes and takes the run away, I can throw it over his head."

That isn't exactly throwing AB under the bus. He simply said that the play situation caused him to believe the best opportunity was to try and put the ball in a spot his all world WR would beat the DB to. If Ben and AB weren't thinking of the same spot -- that is what Ben's comments are directed at. He later goes on to say that he should've thrown the ball away.

For Washington, he is relating what happened in film study and criticism that has already been directed towards Washington by multiple coaches and Ben himself in the privacy of the locker room:

"I think he just didn't trust his hands. For some reason he jumped/drove. I'm not really sure what he's doing. We looked at it. Coach got on him pretty good yesterday. We took a long hard look at it. James just needs to run through it, and it's a touchdown. ... James, he needs to make that play. Yes, he's a rookie, but you cant be out there if you're not gonna make those plays for us." "When I said 'confidence,' I think he needs to have confidence in himself. I think when you leave your feet for a ball that you don't need to leave your feet for — it's not just me, this is, I think, if you ask receivers, if you ask coaches, if you ask people around the NFL — it's the same sort of thing if you talk about a DB who's having issues intercepting a ball, they're trying to catch it with their chest or their body, right?
“When receivers are having issues, they're trying to catch it in their bellies instead of trusting their hands, right? When you trust and you have confidence in yourself, you use your hands and you catch the ball. I just felt like when he jumped and dove, whatever you want to call it, that just to me show showed a lack of confidence in himself and his hands. I have the confidence in him. I mean, I wouldn't have thrown it to him if I didn't. He needs to just have the trust and confidence in himself, and he needs to bounce back, right? We need him to bounce back and make some plays this week for us."

That isn't exactly torching a guy. I mean, I wish my supervisors criticized me that gently.
I don't live in Pittsburgh so have never heard the radio show. I hadn't read what Ben said until the post I quoted above. If thats all he said not sure how this makes news. If Washington's skin is that thin and cant take constructive criticism from a future hall of famer then he's got bigger problems in his future career. And this is coming from a guy who thinks Ben is a douche. Great QB though. I guess we don't have LB to talk about now so we need to fill in the time. I mean the guy has been on the field quite a bit recently and I cant think of one big play he has made all year. Bens right, the kid needs to have confidence and step up, maybe Bens smarter than I think which wouldn't be that tough since his IQ bar is pretty low IMO . This could be a turning point for the kid and he may actually produce through playoffs and SB.

Mojouw
11-29-2018, 02:56 PM
His hands sure improved in Denver! I always liked Sanders good player and attitude and has something AB doesn't. Sadly, I doubt AB will get a ring in Pittsburgh.

- - - Updated - - -


[/B]
Do they do it privately or go on your local PBS station and tell you?

That's the thing. It was done during film study and meetings between Ben, the other players, and coaches prior to the radio show. That couldn't be more clear. Then on the radio show Ben relates some of the things that were spoken about.

I can not believe we have gotten so conflict and confrontation adverse that this is even a thing. How this is bad I just can not wrap my head around. Both Washington and AB appear to have failed to perform fundamental job functions. They were critiqued in a self-scouting session by coaches and players and then the QB related an abbreviated version of that conversation. What's the big deal?

Again, remember when Ben basically leveled that EXACT same criticisms at Martavis Bryant and then Bryant went out and stormed through a series of games? No one cared then. So on a slow news cycle after a series of boring and predictable games over a holiday weekend, some national sportswriters decide to make this a "big" story to fill air time and now everyone is on here hyperventilating. Seriously?

This relates back to comments DeCastro made after the playoff lose last year. He referred to "some guys" -- like how is that any different? No one was confused or uncertain as to exactly who he was talking about. I mean, clearly, it was the 4th string offensive guard, right? C'mon. I just really think it is indescribably silly how fans and the media have convinced each other that athlete comments must fit in a narrow band or they are some how the verbal equivalents of hand grenades and may destroy whole teams and careers. If Ben had went on his radio show and said, "We looked at it on film and I have spoken with coaches and players about how to correct the mistakes that individuals made in key situations." Why is that so much different/better? Like is anyone really unsure of what situations and individuals that comment would be talking about? Please.

I can't believe this thread has 70+ comments in it and over 800 views. And I can't believe I get sucked into arguing about it. Especially when no one has provided a single potential tangible negative outcome? Other than maybe these dudes all wear the same uniform but might not like each other. If someone honestly thought that now James Washington was going to go and stop trying to get better or AB was going to start dropping passes because this is the root of some vendetta against Roethlisberger...I guess we might have a topic for discussion. But since NFL teams don't operate on "omerta", I don't think we have to worry about that.

fansince'76
11-29-2018, 03:02 PM
I can not believe we have gotten so conflict and confrontation adverse that this is even a thing.

Show me on the doll where... :chuckle:

Mojouw
11-29-2018, 03:06 PM
Show me on the doll where... :chuckle:

Right?

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/11/big-ben-ryan-switzer-a-tough-little-booger-who-makes-a-lot-of-plays/

I mean here he called Switzer "little" and "a booger" -- that's surely gonna make him sad.

He further says he makes mistakes, just not twice. Can't believe he called him out like that with such a back-handed compliment.

This team is "team drama" and is in danger of imploding. Forget a bye, they will be lucky to pull it together enough for the playoffs.

Shoes
11-29-2018, 03:09 PM
That's the thing. It was done during film study and meetings between Ben, the other players, and coaches prior to the radio show. That couldn't be more clear. Then on the radio show Ben relates some of the things that were spoken about.

I can not believe we have gotten so conflict and confrontation adverse that this is even a thing. How this is bad I just can not wrap my head around. Both Washington and AB appear to have failed to perform fundamental job functions. They were critiqued in a self-scouting session by coaches and players and then the QB related an abbreviated version of that conversation. What's the big deal?

Again, remember when Ben basically leveled that EXACT same criticisms at Martavis Bryant and then Bryant went out and stormed through a series of games? No one cared then. So on a slow news cycle after a series of boring and predictable games over a holiday weekend, some national sportswriters decide to make this a "big" story to fill air time and now everyone is on here hyperventilating. Seriously?

This relates back to comments DeCastro made after the playoff lose last year. He referred to "some guys" -- like how is that any different? No one was confused or uncertain as to exactly who he was talking about. I mean, clearly, it was the 4th string offensive guard, right? C'mon. I just really think it is indescribably silly how fans and the media have convinced each other that athlete comments must fit in a narrow band or they are some how the verbal equivalents of hand grenades and may destroy whole teams and careers. If Ben had went on his radio show and said, "We looked at it on film and I have spoken with coaches and players about how to correct the mistakes that individuals made in key situations." Why is that so much different/better? Like is anyone really unsure of what situations and individuals that comment would be talking about? Please.

I can't believe this thread has 70+ comments in it and over 800 views. And I can't believe I get sucked into arguing about it. Especially when no one has provided a single potential tangible negative outcome? Other than maybe these dudes all wear the same uniform but might not like each other. If someone honestly thought that now James Washington was going to go and stop trying to get better or AB was going to start dropping passes because this is the root of some vendetta against Roethlisberger...I guess we might have a topic for discussion. But since NFL teams don't operate on "omerta", I don't think we have to worry about that.


Ben's normal drive-by comments, sleight of hand if you will. I have no problem with Ben speaking his mind with any player but it should be private, and if it's done in private what's the point in singling out a rookie on the radio? Why didn't he call out McDonald for dropping a TD in the EZ or Grimble's stupid play?

As for the comments and views of this thread, your's seem the most lengthy. :chuckle:

tube517
11-29-2018, 03:10 PM
I mean here he called Switzer "little" and "a booger" -- that's surely gonna make him sad.


How dare he compares Switzer to Mark Sanchez. :nono: :chuckle:

DesertSteel
11-29-2018, 04:10 PM
Right?

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/11/big-ben-ryan-switzer-a-tough-little-booger-who-makes-a-lot-of-plays/

I mean here he called Switzer "little" and "a booger" -- that's surely gonna make him sad.

He further says he makes mistakes, just not twice. Can't believe he called him out like that with such a back-handed compliment.

This team is "team drama" and is in danger of imploding. Forget a bye, they will be lucky to pull it together enough for the playoffs.
I know this is your tact and you are consistent with it. But sometimes you act as if it's just a "fan forum" thing. But teammates are commenting about it, so unless they're members on here (I'm really David Decastro), then silly or not, these things are a bigger issue than you downplay them to be.

Mojouw
11-29-2018, 04:26 PM
I know this is your tact and you are consistent with it. But sometimes you act as if it's just a "fan forum" thing. But teammates are commenting about it, so unless they're members on here (I'm really David Decastro), then silly or not, these things are a bigger issue than you downplay them to be.

I haven't seen one report of team mates saying word one out about it. But then, I am not on Twitter or any other NFL related social media stuff. And further, are those reports because some media type shoved a recorder in a players face during an open media session and asked a question about Ben's comments OR did a player seek out a platform to respond? Those are two very very different things.

Players answering questions and making comments during a forced/mandatory open media session and players seeking out a platform to air out their grievances are not the same thing. All I ever see is Steelers players give a straight answer to a straight question; not leaking a bunch of stuff out on purpose.

And it isn't that it is a "fan forum" thing. It is about the level of importance of the "thing". This board, in particular, has elevated "drama" to about an 8 or 9 on a 10 point scale of importance of what impacts winning or losing football games. I think that kinda stuff is about a 4 at best. The top portion of the scale is (for me) reserved for actual scheme, tactics, roster talent, and execution.

I suspect that, honestly, this all rooted in my frustration that 90% of NFL reporting/analysis has ZERO to do with how the games are actually played. It is difficult, as a fan who can't want to spend hours watching/re-watching ALL-22 tape in front of my computer, to get concrete explanations why this team is finding success and this team isn't. Instead, we (meaning fans) get fed cliches and over-baked nonsense as to why teams are either meeting or falling short of expectations. Further, I truly believe this is because most people paid to talk/write/yell about the NFL have long since stopped putting in much work on it. They don't watch all the games, much less "break them down". It is increasingly clear, that they watch the NFL Redzone and some highlight packages and develop their "takes" from there. And then, it seems, like most NFL fans sagely nod their heads and buy-in that their team only needs to overcome "chemistry issues" or just "mesh" better and they will be in a SB or something.

AtlantaDan
11-29-2018, 05:19 PM
Something to be said for being lucky and in the right place at the right time...

Luck cuts both ways - IMO Sanders might have been a difference maker if he had not broken his foot early in the Green Bay Super Bowl - AB was not yet ready to step in on plays Arians claimed had been set up for Sanders

AtlantaDan
11-29-2018, 05:48 PM
I haven't seen one report of team mates saying word one out about it.

“Maybe it’s his way of challenging guys, letting them know we’re not perfect as a team,” Steelers guard Ramon Foster (https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/note/a670dcc6-607c-4eae-9efe-3b4676d57f6d_note.html?questionId=55b771f0-ffe3-4f90-b1fe-2d123261e28f) said of Roethlisberger (via the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14347602-74/kevin-gorman-when-big-ben-speaks-steelers-should-listen)).

“He’s a 15-year vet. He’s a Hall of Famer. What makes it that he can’t say something, but the guys that sit on TV can say something?” Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey (https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/note/a670dcc6-607c-4eae-9efe-3b4676d57f6d_note.html?questionId=1bdd1100-dc07-472e-b6a6-9cfe7e800dc8) said (https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1067886611487236107) of Roethlisberger.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/29/ben-roethlisberger-says-hes-earned-right-publicly-criticize-teammates/?utm_term=.7a05ac8e4603

“You take it for what it is, man,” Steelers receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey said. “Everybody has different ways to encourage guys or to get guys going. You hear what he has to say, whether it’s in front of you or in the media, and you just try to get better because each and every day is a battle for every guy in here to prove themselves, not only to the coaching staff but to your teammates.”

https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14347602-74/kevin-gorman-when-big-ben-speaks-steelers-should-listen

“Talking about a Hall of Fame guy who’s played 15 years here, who’s won Super Bowls,” DeCastro said. “So people listen. You respect that resume and what he has to say. No doubt.”

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2018/11/28/Joe-Starkey-Yes-Ben-Roethlisberger-has-earned-the-right-to-call-out-teammates-But-to-what-end/stories/201811280188

“With him being the captain of this team, he has freedom of speech as well as we all do,” Washington said

https://clutchpoints.com/steelers-news-james-washington-defends-ben-roethlisberger-calling-out-teammates/

My recollection is that Friday is the day AB deigns to address the media rabble so we will find out if he crosses everyone up and says nothing.

Nobody demanded to be heard. But nobody had to answer any questions if the QB does not stir up stuff.


I suspect that, honestly, this all rooted in my frustration that 90% of NFL reporting/analysis has ZERO to do with how the games are actually played. It is difficult, as a fan who can't want to spend hours watching/re-watching ALL-22 tape in front of my computer, to get concrete explanations why this team is finding success and this team isn't. Instead, we (meaning fans) get fed cliches and over-baked nonsense as to why teams are either meeting or falling short of expectations. Further, I truly believe this is because most people paid to talk/write/yell about the NFL have long since stopped putting in much work on it. They don't watch all the games, much less "break them down". It is increasingly clear, that they watch the NFL Redzone and some highlight packages and develop their "takes" from there. And then, it seems, like most NFL fans sagely nod their heads and buy-in that their team only needs to overcome "chemistry issues" or just "mesh" better and they will be in a SB or something.

It is a business and the business is to maximize viewers/page hits.

The NFL is delighted to sell GamePass for $99 to purists who want to watch the coaches 22 but catering to only fans who may pay for premium subscriptions to Pro Football Focus is not going to max out revenue anymore than folks who read hearings transcripts and drafts of legislation are going to fund a viable media strategy to cover national politics. Articles are written for online and (now much less often) print to max out page hits/readers. ESPN used to have a very good Sunday morning show with Ron Jaworski breaking down video. ESPN dumped that show (along with Jaworski) to expand the NFL Sunday pregame chucklefest for another hour because it draws more viewers and higher revenue for ads.

The NBA is the leader in having the players boost ratings through their personal stories/beefs (e.g. Draymond Green v Kevin Durant several weeks ago). MLB is the worst with the commissioner going after the best player in baseball (Mike Trout) last summer for not seeking a higher media profile. The NFL also wants to play that game and stories about which players allegedly are beefing with their coaches or teammates achieves that goal.

Goodell is probably delighted to have a high profile player like Ben stir the pot on a recurring basis with his radio appearances almost as much as is he is with games that have both teams scoring in the 50s.

It's all about the Benjamins.

86WARD
11-29-2018, 05:50 PM
His hands sure improved in Denver! I always liked Sanders good player and attitude and has something AB doesn't. Sadly, I doubt AB will get a ring in Pittsburgh.

- - - Updated - - -


[/B]
Do they do it privately or go on your local PBS station and tell you?

Its part of a discussion. Not Ben criticizing the receivers. It's not hard to understand. If the title of the article is: Roethlisberger Reviews Pass Plays On Radio Show, it's a non-story...lol.

Shoes
11-29-2018, 06:21 PM
Its part of a discussion. Not Ben criticizing the receivers. It's not hard to understand. If the title of the article is: Roethlisberger Reviews Pass Plays On Radio Show, it's a non-story...lol.


You are correct those drive-by farts by Ben are pretty slick. :lol:

Mojouw
11-29-2018, 06:29 PM
“Maybe it’s his way of challenging guys, letting them know we’re not perfect as a team,” Steelers guard Ramon Foster (https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/note/a670dcc6-607c-4eae-9efe-3b4676d57f6d_note.html?questionId=55b771f0-ffe3-4f90-b1fe-2d123261e28f) said of Roethlisberger (via the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14347602-74/kevin-gorman-when-big-ben-speaks-steelers-should-listen)).

“He’s a 15-year vet. He’s a Hall of Famer. What makes it that he can’t say something, but the guys that sit on TV can say something?” Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey (https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/note/a670dcc6-607c-4eae-9efe-3b4676d57f6d_note.html?questionId=1bdd1100-dc07-472e-b6a6-9cfe7e800dc8) said (https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1067886611487236107) of Roethlisberger.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/29/ben-roethlisberger-says-hes-earned-right-publicly-criticize-teammates/?utm_term=.7a05ac8e4603

“You take it for what it is, man,” Steelers receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey said. “Everybody has different ways to encourage guys or to get guys going. You hear what he has to say, whether it’s in front of you or in the media, and you just try to get better because each and every day is a battle for every guy in here to prove themselves, not only to the coaching staff but to your teammates.”

https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14347602-74/kevin-gorman-when-big-ben-speaks-steelers-should-listen

“Talking about a Hall of Fame guy who’s played 15 years here, who’s won Super Bowls,” DeCastro said. “So people listen. You respect that resume and what he has to say. No doubt.”

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2018/11/28/Joe-Starkey-Yes-Ben-Roethlisberger-has-earned-the-right-to-call-out-teammates-But-to-what-end/stories/201811280188

“With him being the captain of this team, he has freedom of speech as well as we all do,” Washington said

https://clutchpoints.com/steelers-news-james-washington-defends-ben-roethlisberger-calling-out-teammates/

My recollection is that Friday is the day AB deigns to address the media rabble so we will find out if he crosses everyone up and says nothing.

Nobody demanded to be heard. But nobody had to answer any questions if the QB does not stir up stuff.



It is a business and the business is to maximize viewers/page hits.

The NFL is delighted to sell GamePass for $99 to purists who want to watch the coaches 22 but catering to only fans who may pay for premium subscriptions to Pro Football Focus is not going to max out revenue anymore than folks who read hearings transcripts and drafts of legislation are going to fund a viable media strategy to cover national politics. Articles are written for online and (now much less often) print to max out page hits/readers. ESPN used to have a very good Sunday morning show with Ron Jaworski breaking down video. ESPN dumped that show (along with Jaworski) to expand the NFL Sunday pregame chucklefest for another hour because it draws more viewers and higher revenue for ads.

The NBA is the leader in having the players boost ratings through their personal stories/beefs (e.g. Draymond Green v Kevin Durant several weeks ago). MLB is the worst with the commissioner going after the best player in baseball (Mike Trout) last summer for not seeking a higher media profile. The NFL also wants to play that game and stories about which players allegedly are beefing with their coaches or teammates achieves that goal.

Goodell is probably delighted to have a high profile player like Ben stir the pot on a recurring basis with his radio appearances almost as much as is he is with games that have both teams scoring in the 50s.

It's all about the Benjamins.

So other prominent team members support the decision and actions? That would seem to run counter to the popular media and message board narrative.

Your commentary on what drives media coverage and priorities when it comes to the NFL is spot on and excellent, as is typical for your postings. I agree with all of what you have presented. I fully understand that it is not going to change and move towards more nuts and bolts analytical stuff. That is why I consume almost zero major network and website NFL coverage - because it is largely useless and immaterial. I haven't watched a pregame show in maybe a decade.

But the other side of that coin is that just because a "narrative" is pushed out to generate views/clicks/discussion or whatever does not mean I have to buy that it is either relevant or important. This has been a 2-3 day cycle of stories on this issue and it has ZERO impact on the Steelers being able to beat the Chargers on Sunday night. It also has little to do with the actual reasons the team lost the Broncos game. Don't turn the ball over the other 3 times and there is no endzone interception to end the game and the team likely walks out with about a 30+ to 20 something victory.

Very long story short. If the Steelers turned the ball over less and actually generated meaningful takeaways on defense, they would be likely 9-2 or whatever the math works out to with the Ravens and Chiefs games being the only losses. That is the more relevant and useful story for understanding the won/loss record of the 2018 Pittsburgh Steelers. It is about field position, turnover margin, and not being able to defend empty sets. Very little, if anything, has to do with the attitude and commentary of the players.

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2018, 10:14 PM
Ben's stomach earns the right to fart once in a while. BTW, when Ben left the game the other day, someone in our local Steelers group said they thought he went to take a dump. :noidea: :chuckle:Yeah, I think I said he went to take a shit lmao

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

DesertSteel
11-29-2018, 11:09 PM
So other prominent team members support the decision and actions? That would seem to run counter to the popular media and message board narrative.


"He has a right to say what he wants" doesn't necessarily constitute a positive vibe.

Once more though, the original comments were no big deal. I think the comments that set things off were the "I've earned the right to criticize my teammates" that came afterwards. That's where the reaction is coming from. Ben just isn't media savvy. But he never was and never will be.

And nobody is saying this is affecting wins and losses. Nothing we say on this board is affecting W/L's either. We're just discussing things that are related to the game, but not related to X's and O's.

Cheers!
:tea:

teegre
11-30-2018, 06:56 AM
Things I enjoy watching Ben do:
-lead the 2-minute drill
-lead come-from-behind victories
-scramble around
-make amazing plays
-connect uncannily with AB
-throw completions to JuJu
-make mediocre WRs look great
-win games (lots & lots of games)

Things I do NOT enjoy watching Ben do:
-speak
-make balloon animals
-visit co-ed bars

tube517
11-30-2018, 09:12 AM
Things I enjoy watching Ben do:
-lead the 2-minute drill
-lead come-from-behind victories
-scramble around
-make amazing plays
-connect uncannily with AB
-throw completions to JuJu
-make mediocre WRs look great
-win games (lots & lots of games)

Things I do NOT enjoy watching Ben do:
-speak
-make balloon animals
-visit co-ed bars

Tiger has earned the right to call shitty WRs "mediocre".....:chuckle:

AtlantaDan
11-30-2018, 09:39 AM
Ben just isn't media savvy. But he never was and never will be.

:iagree:

But we need to remember that sometimes gunslingers miss three point shots :huh:

1067737523810697216

tube517
11-30-2018, 09:45 AM
:iagree:

But we need to remember that sometimes gunslingers miss three point shots :huh:

1067737523810697216


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiDlkEzORZY Steve Nash earned the right to tell Ben to stick w/football :chuckle:

AtlantaDan
11-30-2018, 03:07 PM
We have entered the parallel universe of Bizarro Steelers where the calming influence is provided by peacemaker AB :chuckle:

1068562704686829568

“Ben is my guy, man,” Brown said Friday afternoon following practice. “I love him. There’s a method to his madness. It’s only going to inspire the group, encourage the group to do better. I know the type of guys he is. I know it can be misconstrued and changed in regards to how you guys put it out there. But he means well. He’s here to inspire us all. He’s the only one in this locker room that has a championship under his belt. If you do the little things, it’s only going to encourage us to do something special.”

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/11/30/ben-roethlisberger-criticism-steelers-receivers-antonio-brown-juju-smith-schuster/stories/201811300481

pczach
12-01-2018, 02:19 PM
Most people that don't like Big Ben personally are going to take the other side anytime there is something in question.

I truly believe much of this is that simple.

Aaron Rodgers questions everything and every coach, but he's a god of the position. He's not Ben.

It only matters when Ben does it. He's not a real leader and he hurts his team.

Rodgers can stick his face into any camera or microphone and criticize any player, coach, play call, etc.....and he's a tremendous player and leader and it's clearly not detrimental to his team.

Tom Brady can whine like a little bitch, scream at teammates and act like an ass....and he's a fiery competitor.

We have people here that actually claim that he doesn't say anything to other players' faces. I had no idea we had so many members of this board that work for the Steelers and spend so much time with Ben Roethlisberger and other players.

I am seeing a ton of quotes posted from Steelers players commenting on Ben's comments when they are asked a question, and it is put forward as if these guys are running to microphones to comment on Ben on their own without prodding. There is a difference between players commenting on their own, and responding to a question by the media.

Many here are predisposed to not like anything Ben Roethlisberger.

Ben has his faults, but this is a complete non-story.

steelcityboyz
12-02-2018, 07:32 AM
Most people that don't like Big Ben personally are going to take the other side anytime there is something in question.

I truly believe much of this is that simple.

Aaron Rodgers questions everything and every coach, but he's a god of the position. He's not Ben.

It only matters when Ben does it. He's not a real leader and he hurts his team.

Rodgers can stick his face into any camera or microphone and criticize any player, coach, play call, etc.....and he's a tremendous player and leader and it's clearly not detrimental to his team.

Tom Brady can whine like a little bitch, scream at teammates and act like an ass....and he's a fiery competitor.

We have people here that actually claim that he doesn't say anything to other players' faces. I had no idea we had so many members of this board that work for the Steelers and spend so much time with Ben Roethlisberger and other players.

I am seeing a ton of quotes posted from Steelers players commenting on Ben's comments when they are asked a question, and it is put forward as if these guys are running to microphones to comment on Ben on their own without prodding. There is a difference between players commenting on their own, and responding to a question by the media.

Many here are predisposed to not like anything Ben Roethlisberger.

Ben has his faults, but this is a complete non-story.WORD. :amen:

AtlantaDan
12-02-2018, 08:27 AM
Most people that don't like Big Ben personally are going to take the other side anytime there is something in question.

I truly believe much of this is that simple....

Many here are predisposed to not like anything Ben Roethlisberger.

Ben has his faults, but this is a complete non-story.

The cake was baked for Ben's image when he was a jackass off the field (and that is an understatement considering off the field behavior included multiple allegations of sexual assault) in the first part of his career. If he had not reached a civil settlement with the college student he encountered in the Milledgeville bathroom (remarkable coincidence how her family retained an Atlanta attorney who specializes in representing plaintiffs alleging sexual harassment in civil litigation and she then quit cooperating with the prosecutors) his career very well could have ended in 2010. Unlike Brady and Rodgers his off the field conduct is what established his unfavorable image.

All that matters is that he remains a very productive QB

But if he wants to take shots on his Tuesday morning radio show and then talk about "earning" the right to take them it is fair game for him to be criticized for blaming everyone except himself for not reading the defense (the DL who made the pick was not blocked downfield by Pouncey but dropped into coverage) and throwing a game ending INT that did not even get to the WR he criticized for running a sloppy route. After throwing 5 picks in the past 2 games maybe just STFU and quit talking about gunslingers and 3 point shooters gotta shoot

There was an easy way to avoid this - Radio Ben created this latest dust up and then doubled down with his comments about his "rights"

teegre
12-02-2018, 08:43 AM
If Washington runs through the ball (and catches it), he waltzes into the end-zone.

Should Ben have called him out publicly? Probably not

Was it an awful decision by Washington? Absolutely

Butch
12-02-2018, 09:25 AM
The cake was baked for Ben's image when he was a jackass off the field (and that is an understatement considering off the field behavior included multiple allegations of sexual assault) in the first part of his career. If he had not reached a civil settlement with the college student he encountered in the Milledgeville bathroom (remarkable coincidence how her family retained an Atlanta attorney who specializes in representing plaintiffs alleging sexual harassment in civil litigation and she then quit cooperating with the prosecutors) his career very well could have ended in 2010. Unlike Brady and Rodgers his off the field conduct is what established his unfavorable image.

All that matters is that he remains a very productive QB

But if he wants to take shots on his Tuesday morning radio show and then talk about "earning" the right to take them it is fair game for him to be criticized for blaming everyone except himself for not reading the defense (the DL who made the pick was not blocked downfield by Pouncey but dropped into coverage) and throwing a game ending INT that did not even get to the WR he criticized for running a sloppy route. After throwing 5 picks in the past 2 games maybe just STFU and quit talking about gunslingers and 3 point shooters gotta shoot

There was an easy way to avoid this - Radio Ben created this latest dust up and then doubled down with his comments about his "rights"

I have 2 questions for this.

1. Are you a Steelers fan?
2. If yes how do you cheer for a team when you believe the QB is a rapist who simply bought his way out of trouble?

AtlantaDan
12-02-2018, 11:12 AM
I have 2 questions for this.

1. Are you a Steelers fan?
2. If yes how do you cheer for a team when you believe the QB is a rapist who simply bought his way out of trouble?

No I just post here because I am a Ravens fan :rolleyes:

I lived in Pittsburgh until 1980 and have rooted for the Steelers since the 60s when I attended games when they played at Pitt Stadium prior to moving to TRS

I am able to cheer for a team where the QB used his money wisely to hire excellent criminal attorneys (Ed Garland and Don Samuel - they also represented Ray Lewis) as part of assembling a legal team to resolve his liability - he was going to face a civil lawsuit and settling those claims quickly is standard operating procedure that can be can be resolved in a manner that is neither witness tampering or bribery.

As as far as how can I root for the Steelers when their QB quite possibly engaged in sexual assault, it is because I have no illusions NFL players are necessarily admirable people off the field. By way of example, Greg Lloyd by all indications is a rotten person, Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter, James Harrison slapped his girlfriend in the face after knocking down a door to go after her, and Santonio Holmes most likely assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I cheered for them too.

Jerry Seinfeld expressed my view


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WSD6Y2YWj4

How do you root for for the Steelers given the players involved in such incidents?

Shoes
12-02-2018, 11:55 AM
No I just post here because I am a Ravens fan :rolleyes:

I lived in Pittsburgh until 1980 and have rooted for the Steelers since the 60s when I attended games when they played at Pitt Stadium prior to moving to TRS

I am able to cheer for a team where the QB used his money wisely to hire excellent criminal attorneys (Ed Garland and Don Samuel - they also represented Ray Lewis) as part of assembling a legal team to resolve his liability - he was going to face a civil lawsuit and settling those claims quickly is standard operating procedure that can be can be resolved in a manner that is neither witness tampering or bribery.

As as far as how can I root for the Steelers when their QB quite possibly engaged in sexual assault, it is because I have no illusions NFL players are necessarily admirable people off the field. By way of example, Greg Lloyd by all indications is a rotten person, Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter, James Harrison slapped his girlfriend in the face after knocking down a door to go after her, and Santonio Holmes most likely assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I cheered for them too.

Jerry Seinfeld expressed my view


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WSD6Y2YWj4

How do you root for for the Steelers given the players involved in such incidents?

Man, I remember games at Pitt Stadium and Forbes Field also. I still remember the vendors at FF screaming "Popcorn, Peanuts 15 cents a box" My uncle was the equipment manager for Pitt back in the day and had a really nice piece written about him by a young sportswriter named Myron Kopelman.

pczach
12-02-2018, 12:55 PM
The cake was baked for Ben's image when he was a jackass off the field (and that is an understatement considering off the field behavior included multiple allegations of sexual assault) in the first part of his career. If he had not reached a civil settlement with the college student he encountered in the Milledgeville bathroom (remarkable coincidence how her family retained an Atlanta attorney who specializes in representing plaintiffs alleging sexual harassment in civil litigation and she then quit cooperating with the prosecutors) his career very well could have ended in 2010. Unlike Brady and Rodgers his off the field conduct is what established his unfavorable image.

All that matters is that he remains a very productive QB

But if he wants to take shots on his Tuesday morning radio show and then talk about "earning" the right to take them it is fair game for him to be criticized for blaming everyone except himself for not reading the defense (the DL who made the pick was not blocked downfield by Pouncey but dropped into coverage) and throwing a game ending INT that did not even get to the WR he criticized for running a sloppy route. After throwing 5 picks in the past 2 games maybe just STFU and quit talking about gunslingers and 3 point shooters gotta shoot

There was an easy way to avoid this - Radio Ben created this latest dust up and then doubled down with his comments about his "rights"



That's great Dan, but the first paragraph you posted above has nothing to do with football or what he can or cannot say in a football forum. Your commentary is exactly what I'm talking about.

Ray Lewis was the ultimate leader, and there's more than a reasonable chance he was involved in stabbing two men to death. In a football forum, your thoughts on what makes someone a leader is invalid. Apparently, it hasn't stopped Ray Lewis from being on TV and people asking him his takes on everything. Only Ben has to carry the scarlet letter and carry any perceived indiscretions around with him forever. If NFL locker room cred was decided by how each player treated women over their lifetimes, not many men would ever be allowed to speak. Let's be honest and realistic about this.

Now to get back to football. Do you know what Ben is talking about? He's talking about how many of those 5 picks that can be explained away as amazing plays by other players that got it done over certain players that want the ball thrown their way all the time, no-calls by refs, or mistakes by his teammates.

Let me ask you this. Why is Ben on the hook for this whole thing, when he is the guy delivering the balls that turned into fumbles, dropped TD passes, misjudged perfect throws, and multiple plays that HE made that should have easily decided this game way before the last play when he got a bad snap and made a bad split decision? Then everyone is dumping on Ben for the interception when that game should have NEVER come down to that play.....NEVER. Was it a dumb play? Yes, it was. He should have eaten the ball and taken the sack or thrown it out of the end zone. He couldn't see the play develop because of the snap. He couldn't identify anyone dropping into coverage because of the snap. He couldn't identify anything pre-snap because that's how those work. You can only identify a DL dropping into coverage when you see him drop. He just came up with it and let it go. It was a screwup, but it was a screwup that was helped along by a complete broken play from the snap.

As many on this message board have been saying, this team makes entirely too many mistakes...Ben included. But he is the leader of the team and he knows a hell of a lot more about who is running a wrong route, missing an assignment or reading a defense incorrectly than anyone here. He is trying to make a point to his team in a time where some players only seem to give a shit when everyone knows when they fuck up or hear about it on TV or social media.

One of the guys he's criticizing is AB. You know....the guy that put a live feed of his coach speaking privately to the team in the locker room. Who gives a flying squirrel what someone that committed that breach of trust thinks about it? Spare me about him not having the right to speak. Do you want to know why AB and Ben aren't "on the same page" so often this year? AB is fucking up more than he has in years. He's not getting his feet down every time. He's dropping more balls. He's reading defenses incorrectly. He's running wrong routes. AB freelances more than your average WR. Everybody knows this. His chemistry with Ben and Ben being able to adjust to AB have helped make AB what he is. AB runs the wrong route...everything is cool. Ben gets picked when he throws to the best WR in the NFL in man coverage?....It's OK....Ben fucked up. It doesn't matter that the guy that's supposed to be the greatest WR in the NFL shouldn't be allowing interceptions on 50/50 balls in man coverage. He's "Tony Toe Tap", he's "business is boomin' ", but if Ben misses him when he's open or doesn't see him when he's running for his life from the pass rush....It's a shit show on the sideline. Has anyone noticed that JuJu doesn't have many "miscommunications" with his quarterback and is lighting up the league right now? It's because they aren't "miscommunications" as everyone wants to say it. There is only one person screwing up by running the wrong route or misreading the defense. Since JuJu isn't making these mistakes, and Ben isn't making them with JuJu, You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to decide who is most likely screwing things up in the Ben/AB interactions on the field. Is anyone noticing that JuJu was winning on 50/50 balls in man coverage against Jalen Ramsey? I know that having AB on the other side getting more double teams helps JuJu get more opportunities. There is no doubt about that, but Ben is trying to get everyone in line with the litany of mistakes we are seeing every week.

I also believe that he is challenging Washington because encouragement hasn't been working. He's trying to motivate the kid. Sometimes getting someone to play angry helps a player overcome confidence issues. I believe he is trying what he feels may ultimately help Washington push through his issues.

On the best teams, the best players need to be able to take criticism so that everyone further down on the food chain understands that they better get their shit together. I believe Ben is trying to reinforce that point and make everyone understand that there are times when guys think things need to be said. Everyone sits in the film room. Everyone knows the calls that were made, the assignments missed, and what they could have done differently or better. There are no secrets here or in that locker room.

We also have no way of knowing if Ben talked to AB personally before he spoke to let him know what he was going to say. This happens in locker rooms with coaches all the time. They pull a player aside and say look, I need you to take one for the team today. I'm going to come at you hard in front of everyone, so the entire team knows that they will be held accountable. That's how things work sometimes in sports. Putting everything on himself doesn't seem to be working so he's trying different tact. When guys do it right, he lets everyone know about it. He praises Conner and JuJu all the time. There are messages to the individual players and the team as a whole in everything he says....everything.

I also don't want to hear that Ben needs to take blame. He sits in front of a microphone every week and holds himself accountable while many of his teammates that fuck up are posting on social media pimping their brand from the locker room. He does have the right to say things.

Maybe if he went on his radio show and told everyone to "r-e-l-a-x", nobody would have a problem with that....Oh, that's right...he's Big Ben....someone is always going to have a problem when he says something.

With all that said, do I like when Ben runs his mouth publicly? No I don't. I'm more of an old school guy that didn't believe in that, but times are changing. The modern age of football is seeing so much going on in different forums that I believe this is just a reality of the times, and that this is going to continue to happen more often as young players have changing values and means of communicating. I also don't think it matters in the big scheme of things.

I too wish Ben would STFU about a lot of things, but this is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If you listen to what he said instead of reading what he said, it isn't nearly as bad as it is being portrayed.

If a sure fire HOF player has to explain himself to people every time he says something according to people here, I sure as here better hear these same people burying other players that say or do stupid things. Way too many people love to defend a certain player that throws furniture out of his apartment window, throws tantrums on the field, and has all kinds of social media bizarre comments constantly...but want to crush Ben every time he says literally anything.

Just sayin'

vasteeler
12-02-2018, 01:06 PM
That's great Dan, but the first paragraph you posted above has nothing to do with football or what he can or cannot say in a football forum. Your commentary is exactly what I'm talking about.

Ray Lewis was the ultimate leader, and there's more than a reasonable chance he was involved in stabbing two men to death. In a football forum, your thoughts on what makes someone a leader is invalid. Apparently, it hasn't stopped Ray Lewis from being on TV and people asking him his takes on everything. Only Ben has to carry the scarlet letter and carry any perceived indiscretions around with him forever. If NFL locker room cred was decided by how each player treated women over their lifetimes, not many men would ever be allowed to speak. Let's be honest and realistic about this.

Now to get back to football. Do you know what Ben is talking about? He's talking about how many of those 5 picks that can be explained away as amazing plays by other players that got it done over certain players that want the ball thrown their way all the time, no-calls by refs, or mistakes by his teammates.

Let me ask you this. Why is Ben on the hook for this whole thing, when he is the guy delivering the balls that turned into fumbles, dropped TD passes, misjudged perfect throws, and multiple plays that HE made that should have easily decided this game way before the last play when he got a bad snap and made a bad split decision? Then everyone is dumping on Ben for the interception when that game should have NEVER come down to that play.....NEVER. Was it a dumb play? Yes, it was. He should have eaten the ball and taken the sack or thrown it out of the end zone. He couldn't see the play develop because of the snap. He couldn't identify anyone dropping into coverage because of the snap. He couldn't identify anything pre-snap because that's how those work. You can only identify a DL dropping into coverage when you see him drop. He just came up with it and let it go. It was a screwup, but it was a screwup that was helped along by a complete broken play from the snap.

As many on this message board have been saying, this team makes entirely too many mistakes...Ben included. But he is the leader of the team and he knows a hell of a lot more about who is running a wrong route, missing an assignment or reading a defense incorrectly than anyone here. He is trying to make a point to his team in a time where some players only seem to give a shit when everyone knows when they fuck up or hear about it on TV or social media.

One of the guys he's criticizing is AB. You know....the guy that put a live feed of his coach speaking privately to the team in the locker room. Who gives a flying squirrel what someone that committed that breach of trust thinks about it? Spare me about him not having the right to speak. Do you want to know why AB and Ben aren't "on the same page" so often this year? AB is fucking up more than he has in years. He's not getting his feet down every time. He's dropping more balls. He's reading defenses incorrectly. He's running wrong routes. AB freelances more than your average WR. Everybody knows this. His chemistry with Ben and Ben being able to adjust to AB have helped make AB what he is. AB runs the wrong route...everything is cool. Ben gets picked when he throws to the best WR in the NFL in man coverage?....It's OK....Ben fucked up. It doesn't matter that the guy that's supposed to be the greatest WR in the NFL shouldn't be allowing interceptions on 50/50 balls in man coverage. He's "Tony Toe Tap", he's "business is boomin' ", but if Ben misses him when he's open or doesn't see him when he's running for his life from the pass rush....It's a shit show on the sideline. Has anyone noticed that JuJu doesn't have many "miscommunications" with his quarterback and is lighting up the league right now? It's because they aren't "miscommunications" as everyone wants to say it. There is only one person screwing up by running the wrong route or misreading the defense. Since JuJu isn't making these mistakes, and Ben isn't making them with JuJu, You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to decide who is most likely screwing things up in the Ben/AB interactions on the field. Is anyone noticing that JuJu was winning on 50/50 balls in man coverage against Jalen Ramsey? I know that having AB on the other side getting more double teams helps JuJu get more opportunities. There is no doubt about that, but Ben is trying to get everyone in line with the litany of mistakes we are seeing every week.

I also believe that he is challenging Washington because encouragement hasn't been working. He's trying to motivate the kid. Sometimes getting someone to play angry helps a player overcome confidence issues. I believe he is trying what he feels may ultimately help Washington push through his issues.

On the best teams, the best players need to be able to take criticism so that everyone further down on the food chain understands that they better get their shit together. I believe Ben is trying to reinforce that point and make everyone understand that there are times when guys think things need to be said. Everyone sits in the film room. Everyone knows the calls that were made, the assignments missed, and what they could have done differently or better. There are no secrets here or in that locker room.

We also have no way of knowing if Ben talked to AB personally before he spoke to let him know what he was going to say. This happens in locker rooms with coaches all the time. They pull a player aside and say look, I need you to take one for the team today. I'm going to come at you hard in front of everyone, so the entire team knows that they will be held accountable. That's how things work sometimes in sports. Putting everything on himself doesn't seem to be working so he's trying different tact. When guys do it right, he lets everyone know about it. He praises Conner and JuJu all the time. There are messages to the individual players and the team as a whole in everything he says....everything.

I also don't want to hear that Ben needs to take blame. He sits in front of a microphone every week and holds himself accountable while many of his teammates that fuck up are posting on social media pimping their brand from the locker room. He does have the right to say things.

Maybe if he went on his radio show and told everyone to "r-e-l-a-x", nobody would have a problem with that....Oh, that's right...he's Big Ben....someone is always going to have a problem when he says something.

With all that said, do I like when Ben runs his mouth publicly? No I don't. I'm more of an old school guy that didn't believe in that, but times are changing. The modern age of football is seeing so much going on in different forums that I believe this is just a reality of the times, and that this is going to continue to happen more often as young players have changing values and means of communicating. I also don't think it matters in the big scheme of things.

I too wish Ben would STFU about a lot of things, but this is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If you listen to what he said instead of reading what he said, it isn't nearly as bad as it is being portrayed.

If a sure fire HOF player has to explain himself to people every time he says something according to people here, I sure as here better hear these same people burying other players that say or do stupid things. Way too many people love to defend a certain player that throws furniture out of his apartment window, throws tantrums on the field, and has all kinds of social media bizarre comments constantly...but want to crush Ben every time he says literally anything.

Just sayin'

Great post, Zack!

FrancoLambert
12-02-2018, 02:46 PM
I guess I’m too old and out of touch to accept the fact that the backlash one is subjected to after legitimately criticizing Ben is warranted.

May be oversimplifying a bit but if you have any part (WR or QB) in 5 picks over two games, just STFU, at least in public, it’s better for all.

DesertSteel
12-02-2018, 04:03 PM
As as far as how can I root for the Steelers when their QB quite possibly engaged in sexual assault, it is because I have no illusions NFL players are necessarily admirable people off the field. By way of example, Greg Lloyd by all indications is a rotten person, Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter, James Harrison slapped his girlfriend in the face after knocking down a door to go after her, and Santonio Holmes most likely assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I cheered for them too.

I can root for Ben because, while I think he 'may' have been guilty of what he was accused of, there was no real proof presented to the public. I combine that with the fact that I truly believe that Ben has changed for the better. As for continuing to cheer for guys who have been convicted of crimes of violence against women, unlike you I can't and will never do it.

AtlantaDan
12-02-2018, 05:36 PM
That's great Dan, but the first paragraph you posted above has nothing to do with football or what he can or cannot say in a football forum. Your commentary is exactly what I'm talking about.

Actually it does. You wondered why Aaron Rodgers criticizes others and does not catch hell for it. I gave you my perception why.

The difference is to my knowledge there are no stories of the Green Bay equivalent of Charlie Batch calling out Rodgers for being a bad teammate as Batch did with Ben along with the other incidents involving Ben through 2010. It may be unfair but off the field conduct matters and when you solidify an image as a self-centered jerk through 2010 that is going to carry over to how any comments you make are perceived by many, specifically me. Props to you if you are able to compartmentalize the different aspects of the Ben Roethlisberger experience. That is not a shot at you - I admit I cannot do it.

And because Rodgers is not regarded to be a self-entitled jackass (who knows if he is - those State Farm endorsement deals indicate he is not perceived that way although I have read he is estranged from his immediate family) he gets cut slack Ben does not. That is why I raised it, not just to rehash why I root for Ben but do not regard him as anyone I would suggest anyone follow for any reason other than how to be a good on the field QB.


Ray Lewis was the ultimate leader, and there's more than a reasonable chance he was involved in stabbing two men to death. In a football forum, your thoughts on what makes someone a leader is invalid. Apparently, it hasn't stopped Ray Lewis from being on TV and people asking him his takes on everything. Only Ben has to carry the scarlet letter and carry any perceived indiscretions around with him forever. If NFL locker room cred was decided by how each player treated women over their lifetimes, not many men would ever be allowed to speak. Let's be honest and realistic about this.

Ray Lewis is regarded as an immoral fraud by me and I am not alone. If you think Ray Lewis got a lifetime pass for his excellent adventure in Buckhead when attending the 2000 Super Bowl here are links to stories that ran during Ravens-49ers Super Bowl week in 2013. Not exactly a Jerome Bettis returning in glory to Detroit in SB XL storyline. So if Ben makes it to Atlanta in February and we read about Milledgeville again it has happened before.

Slayings not forgotten, Ray Lewis not forgiven
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/01/10/ray-lewis-baltimore-ravens-atlanta-murder-2000/1566198/

Ray Lewis’ Atlanta legacy not so storied
Baltimore football star embroiled in 2000 murder case that changed Buckhead
https://www.ajc.com/news/ray-lewis-atlanta-legacy-not-storied/FFZpIyi9k9m7TJNMmkifKK/QUOTE]


Let me ask you this. Why is Ben on the hook for this whole thing, when he is the guy delivering the balls that turned into fumbles, dropped TD passes, misjudged perfect throws, and multiple plays that HE made that should have easily decided this game way before the last play when he got a bad snap and made a bad split decision?

I have not said he is on the hook for this whole thing. FWIW I would have brought in Nix to run Conner from first and goal on the three and blame Fichtner for not sending in the personnel to run.

And with regard to holding others accountable I posted earlier this week I would have released Grimble, after reading his claim he could have avoided being tackled but wanted to run over the safety on the fumble, as a low cost means of telling everyone mental errors have consequences.



But he is the leader of the team and he knows a hell of a lot more about who is running a wrong route, missing an assignment or reading a defense incorrectly than anyone here.

I have not read anyone post anything to indicate they disagree with you on that.


He is trying to make a point to his team in a time where some players only seem to give a shit when everyone knows when they fuck up or hear about it on TV or social media.

One of the guys he's criticizing is AB. You know....the guy that put a live feed of his coach speaking privately to the team in the locker room. Who gives a flying squirrel what someone that committed that breach of trust thinks about it? Spare me about him not having the right to speak....

Do you want to know why AB and Ben aren't "on the same page" so often this year? AB is fucking up more than he has in years.

I posted earlier that the one person he might be justified in calling out in public was AB for running a bad route since AB may not react anymore to private counseling (although AB certainly took the high road in his media comments on Friday in responding to Ben's comments) and Brown has not been putting up numbers to his standards all season.

But how about you do it when the pass actually gets to that line of the defense? Instead we get a combo platter of the DL was not where he was supposed to be because Pouncey blocked him there (wrong), Fichtner sent in a bad play (check out of it), and AB needs to run a better route - thinking Ben was pointing fingers at everyone other than himself (when asked if he should have done something different Ben responds "what should I have done, fallen down?") is to me a reasonable conclusion


I also believe that he is challenging Washington because encouragement hasn't been working. He's trying to motivate the kid. Sometimes getting someone to play angry helps a player overcome confidence issues. I believe he is trying what he feels may ultimately help Washington push through his issues.

Interesting he is doing it with Washington and not Conner. Maybe Washington's body language or responses indicate he is not as receptive to criticism as Conner? It may just be my personal preference that younger players not be called out in public by anyone other than Tomlin unless they are five star screwups like Martavis Bryant.


Way too many people love to defend a certain player that throws furniture out of his apartment window, throws tantrums on the field, and has all kinds of social media bizarre comments constantly.

Not me - I started the thread about the furniture tossing and the followup about more $$$ being "stolen" from an AB safe in Pittsburgh

Thanks for the thoughtful response - I only quoted excerpts in my reply in the interest of saving space

:drink:

pczach
12-02-2018, 07:16 PM
Actually it does. You wondered why Aaron Rodgers criticizes others and does not catch hell for it. I gave you my perception why.

The difference is to my knowledge there are no stories of the Green Bay equivalent of Charlie Batch calling out Rodgers for being a bad teammate as Batch did with Ben along with the other incidents involving Ben through 2010. It may be unfair but off the field conduct matters and when you solidify an image as a self-centered jerk through 2010 that is going to carry over to how any comments you make are perceived by many, specifically me. Props to you if you are able to compartmentalize the different aspects of the Ben Roethlisberger experience. That is not a shot at you - I admit I cannot do it.

And because Rodgers is not regarded to be a self-entitled jackass (who knows if he is - those State Farm endorsement deals indicate he is not perceived that way although I have read he is estranged from his immediate family) he gets cut slack Ben does not. That is why I raised it, not just to rehash why I root for Ben but do not regard him as anyone I would suggest anyone follow for any reason other than how to be a good on the field QB.



This literally took 5 seconds to find. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ex-teammate-self-centered-aaron-rodgers-isnt-a-natural-born-leader/

Here's the story mentioned in the link above: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2676645-can-aaron-rodgers-be-the-type-of-leader-the-packers-need

His brother questions Aaron Rodgers for asking for charity for fire victims in California, but doesn't even try to contact his own family who live in the effected areas to see if they're ok. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/11/nfl-aaron-rodgers-jordan-rodgers-family-fued-california-wildfires


Sometimes people get so microscopic when they are looking at everything players do on their own team, they don't always see a lot of stuff that's going on with other players on other teams. I'm as guilty of it as others at times.

Thanks for the response to my post. We don't agree on everything, but I always enjoy our conversations.


:drink:

st33lersguy
12-02-2018, 10:27 PM
With the way Ben has played these past 2 weeks, I hope he doesn't criticize anyone else for poor play the rest of the season

Rotorhead
12-02-2018, 10:34 PM
I will say, AB played a great game, the rest of the team forgot to play

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
12-02-2018, 11:22 PM
I won't even mention INT Ben, oops but coaching lost this game.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-02-2018, 11:23 PM
No I just post here because I am a Ravens fan :rolleyes:

I lived in Pittsburgh until 1980 and have rooted for the Steelers since the 60s when I attended games when they played at Pitt Stadium prior to moving to TRS

I am able to cheer for a team where the QB used his money wisely to hire excellent criminal attorneys (Ed Garland and Don Samuel - they also represented Ray Lewis) as part of assembling a legal team to resolve his liability - he was going to face a civil lawsuit and settling those claims quickly is standard operating procedure that can be can be resolved in a manner that is neither witness tampering or bribery.

As as far as how can I root for the Steelers when their QB quite possibly engaged in sexual assault, it is because I have no illusions NFL players are necessarily admirable people off the field. By way of example, Greg Lloyd by all indications is a rotten person, Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter, James Harrison slapped his girlfriend in the face after knocking down a door to go after her, and Santonio Holmes most likely assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I cheered for them too.

Jerry Seinfeld expressed my view


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WSD6Y2YWj4

How do you root for for the Steelers given the players involved in such incidents?

You can root for a team, since you have been a fan for decades. You can even love what the QB does on the football field and in games, yet not agree with the choices off the field that he makes.

In short, you cheer for the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back of the jersey.

Shoes
12-02-2018, 11:24 PM
I won't even mention INT Ben, oops but coaching lost this game.

Well, Ben earned the right to call out Hunter on this weeks radio program for diving to catch his overthrown ball in the EZ.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
12-02-2018, 11:26 PM
With the way Ben has played these past 2 weeks, I hope he doesn't criticize anyone else for poor play the rest of the season How many interceptions has he had in the last three weeks ? Love him but wouldn't mind if he retires after this season. Would like to see what we have in Dobbs and Rudolph.

Mojouw
12-02-2018, 11:27 PM
Good to see everyone is out on the ledge tonight.


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JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
12-02-2018, 11:29 PM
Well, Ben earned the right to call out Hunter on this weeks radio program for diving to catch his overthrown ball in the EZ. Lol.

- - - Updated - - -


Good to see everyone is out on the ledge tonight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'm not and said they are playoff bound cause of the crap division. Can they do anything with it ?

Shoes
12-02-2018, 11:29 PM
Good to see everyone is out on the ledge tonight.


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I'm not on the edge, what we saw tonight is a reality.

SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:30 PM
With the way Ben has played these past 2 weeks, I hope he doesn't criticize anyone else for poor play the rest of the seasonAt this point, Ben has earned the right to STFU...he needs to be called out...these boneheaded picks are atrocious...that pick tonight potentially cost us at least 3 points. My confidence level has dropped to 0 after tonight.

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SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:32 PM
Good to see everyone is out on the ledge tonight.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNot on the ledge but this team has insanity written all over them. The exact definition of insanity

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Mojouw
12-02-2018, 11:33 PM
I'm not on the edge, what we saw tonight is a reality.

I don’t get the shock. They lost to the 2nd best team in the AFC. Revealed themselves to be somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best team in the conference. That’s where I’ve pegged them from the jump. Why the surprise?

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
12-02-2018, 11:34 PM
Ben's INT's is very concerning and has to stop!

SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:34 PM
I don’t get the shock. They lost to the 2nd best team in the AFC. Revealed themselves to be somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best team in the conference. That’s where I’ve pegged them from the jump. Why the surprise?The WAY they lost

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Mojouw
12-02-2018, 11:37 PM
By being soft up the middle on defense and lacking a deep threat on offense? How is this news? They did what they’ve done all year on defense. They traded open WRs for the chance to generate pressure. That’s playing with Fire. Got burned. Again, not surprising.


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Shoes
12-02-2018, 11:37 PM
I don’t get the shock. They lost to the 2nd best team in the AFC. Revealed themselves to be somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best team in the conference. That’s where I’ve pegged them from the jump. Why the surprise?

You will.

SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:38 PM
I don’t get the shock. They lost to the 2nd best team in the AFC. Revealed themselves to be somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best team in the conference. That’s where I’ve pegged them from the jump. Why the surprise?We are NOT between the 3rd and 5th best team in the conference

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Mojouw
12-02-2018, 11:39 PM
You will.

I’ll grant I wasn’t able to pay close attention to the game tonight. And I’m not a rewatcher. But from what I did see, it’s the same good and same bad as this team has been from Week 1. Add in some crap calls by refs that led to pints and a handful of bad bounces. Pretty easy to see. What’s surprising?


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Mojouw
12-02-2018, 11:40 PM
We are NOT between the 3rd and 5th best team in the conference

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Sure they are. And what does it matter? Not enough turnovers on defense to make a deep run.


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SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:41 PM
Boils down to this team is inept at making adjustments as well...that's coaching

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fansince'76
12-02-2018, 11:41 PM
We are NOT between the 3rd and 5th best team in the conference

Actually, they are - the AFC is pretty damn bad all the way around.

Shoes
12-02-2018, 11:43 PM
I’ll grant I wasn’t able to pay close attention to the game tonight. And I’m not a rewatcher. But from what I did see, it’s the same good and same bad as this team has been from Week 1. Add in some crap calls by refs that led to pints and a handful of bad bounces. Pretty easy to see. What’s surprising?


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Nothing, I expect one and done at best.

Mojouw
12-02-2018, 11:43 PM
Boils down to this team is inept at making adjustments as well...that's coaching

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With Burnett injured and Burns tanking there are no adjustments to make. Today’s plan was to sell out Fort in coverage between the hashes to generate pressure. Almost worked. But fell 3 plays short.

SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:43 PM
Sure they are. And what does it matter? Not enough turnovers on defense to make a deep run.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf that's what you think then each to his own...can't be considered in the top 5 if all 3 phases are not playing well

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Mojouw
12-02-2018, 11:45 PM
Nothing, I expect one and done at best.

That was my baseline since first few weeks. Burns and Davis not generating turnovers and Burnett basically being on IR mean the defense is down to pass rush and duct tape and baling wire.


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SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:47 PM
Chiefs, Pats, Houston, Denver, San Diego, Baltimore? then Steelers???

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SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:48 PM
6th -7th at best in afc

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Shoes
12-02-2018, 11:50 PM
That was my baseline since first few weeks. Burns and Davis not generating turnovers and Burnett basically being on IR mean the defense is down to pass rush and duct tape and baling wire.


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I know you have and are correct, but there is too much helter-skelter team-wide that just seems to continue to carry over year after year. There is too much talent on this team for this to continue but it does. I don't think this team will see another SB for a very long time.

SteelMayhem72
12-02-2018, 11:50 PM
I'm putting Denver up there cause they are better than their record shows

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JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
12-03-2018, 12:04 AM
I know you have and are correct, but there is too much helter-skelter team-wide that just seems to continue to carry over year after year. There is too much talent on this team for this to continue but it does. I don't think this team will see another SB for a very long time. To much talent on this team now and even before. That lies on Tomlin that doesn't know how to win with it!

86WARD
12-03-2018, 05:39 AM
I don’t get the shock. They lost to the 2nd best team in the AFC. Revealed themselves to be somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best team in the conference. That’s where I’ve pegged them from the jump. Why the surprise?

Chargers aren’t the second best team in the AFC. The Steelers are. They just play like the 7th best and they lost last week to the 8th best...lol.

Week after week it’s the same nonsense lately.

People can analyze and try to rationalize the losses, but the fact is good teams find ways to win, this team has been finding ways to lose. This is a team that should be battling for the number one seeds.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-03-2018, 10:16 AM
Chargers aren’t the second best team in the AFC. The Steelers are. They just play like the 7th best and they lost last week to the 8th best...lol.

Week after week it’s the same nonsense lately.

People can analyze and try to rationalize the losses, but the fact is good teams find ways to win, this team has been finding ways to lose. This is a team that should be battling for the number one seeds.

IDK, the Chargers QB has 28TD and 6INT with a 115.7 passer rating. That is a pretty good TD:INT ratio for the guy leading their offense.

The Steelers QB has a 26TD to 13INT ratio with a 95.1 passer rating. Looks like Ben is throwing twice as many game changing INT's than Rivers, so I would say the Chargers are the better team.

Also, the Chargers didn't try to cover Antonio Brown with a ILB, so I would say that strategically they have a leg up on the Steelers as well.

86WARD
12-03-2018, 11:50 AM
IDK, the Chargers QB has 28TD and 6INT with a 115.7 passer rating. That is a pretty good TD:INT ratio for the guy leading their offense.

The Steelers QB has a 26TD to 13INT ratio with a 95.1 passer rating. Looks like Ben is throwing twice as many game changing INT's than Rivers, so I would say the Chargers are the better team.

Also, the Chargers didn't try to cover Antonio Brown with a ILB, so I would say that strategically they have a leg up on the Steelers as well.

Doesn’t mean their “better”. The Steelers have far more talent in offense than the Chargers do.

The Chargers have better coaching.

DesertSteel
12-03-2018, 12:36 PM
Doesn’t mean their “better”. The Steelers have far more talent in offense than the Chargers do.

The Chargers have better coaching.

I'm not sure about the HC since the guy is just getting started. What they do have is a QB who takes better care of the football.

86WARD
12-03-2018, 01:46 PM
The DC and ST Coaches on the Steelers are horrendous.

Steelerchad
12-03-2018, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't give Denver, Baltimore or San Diego a clear edge over the Steelers. Still a month to go. We played as close to perfect as I've seen just a few weeks ago against Carolina. There is time to fix these issues.
Calls and bounces didn't go our way yesterday. Denver needed 4 to's to squeak out a win at home against us.
I'll be surprised if we don't win 3 of the last 4 and hold on for the division.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-03-2018, 02:01 PM
I'm not sure about the HC since the guy is just getting started. What they do have is a QB who takes better care of the football.

Exactly!

You can have a better O line and better WR's, a better RB, but if the guy that has the football in his hands every time the ball is snapped, doesn't make good plays or decisions, then the offense falters.

Rivers is playing better than Ben this year. Whiz is calling better game than Fichtner.

AtlantaDan
12-03-2018, 05:55 PM
Exactly!

You can have a better O line and better WR's, a better RB, but if the guy that has the football in his hands every time the ball is snapped, doesn't make good plays or decisions, then the offense falters.

Rivers is playing better than Ben this year. Whiz is calling better game than Fichtner.

Ray Fittipaldo of the P-G notes the gunslinger is not shooting the intended targets often enough

The interceptions are a gigantic problem. He has 13. Only Sam Darnold has more. He's not careful. He's careless. He doesn't play to situations in the game. He doesn't have a great feel for how to manage a game. It's gunsling or go home. And the Steelers could be going home for the playoffs if the interceptions continue

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/03/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-12-3-18/stories/201812030113

Tomlin presides over a team that is not particularly effective at creating turnovers, so he should demand a more conservative approach with his offense. But there’s nothing conservative or even careful about the offense. Not when quarterback Ben Roethlisberger says things like, “I’m going to keep slinging it” when asked about his interception total. Or when offensive coordinator Randy Fichtner says things like, “Why wouldn’t we pass it?” when he was asked about the Steelers leading the league in pass attempts.

(https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/03/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-12-3-18/stories/201812030113)https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/12/03/pittsburgh-steelers-mike-tomlin-turnovers-chargers-raiders-nfl-2018/stories/201812030134

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
12-03-2018, 05:58 PM
Well guess we will find out who Ben throws under the bus tomorrow.

AtlantaDan
12-03-2018, 06:12 PM
Well guess we will find out who Ben throws under the bus tomorrow.

I bet tomorrow is going to be contrite Ben with no ID on anyone other than him who fell short of the standard along with a continuation of the upbeat message from last night that the Steelers have not hit an iceberg but have just paused on their cruise to pick up some ice

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
12-03-2018, 06:28 PM
Yep sounds about right an Ben will be nice and blaming himself. He took to much heat from last weeks show.