Big Dan has to go

[Hound]

When your only job is to stop the run and your horrible at it. I understand that there aren’t a bunch of D lineman out there but if Alan Branch can pass a physical I’m bringing him in and cutting big Dan

[steelerdude15]

I was surprised they kept him after he was deactivated a lot last year. You barely see the guy play at all even now.

[Mojouw]

I strongly suspect that when the game film from this one gets examined McCullers will grade out fine. Hopefully the internet will breakdown the play of the DL in Tuitt's absence. Did Hargrave get free because McCullers was soaking up blockers? Did Fournette's runs come mostly right at Alualu or did it just feel that way? Etc. Etc.

[Hound]

Highly doubt he grades out well. Might be a reason why he hardly played the second half and the Steelers only gave up 38 yards on the ground.

[Fire Goodell]

I think they were hoping he'd be a massive wall in the middle like fat Casey was. But he's not close to that level. He's a feast or famine type of player, sometimes looks like he could be a productive player, other times it's like eh..

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yeah, I thought Hooks had a good preseason and was gonna push McCullers off the roster. Maybe they didn't think that Alualu or Hooks could play the Nose Tackle spot if needed. McCullers has underwhelmed his entire career.

[steelreserve]

He was a long shot project guy from the beginning, and this is roughly where he still is now. Not difficult to figure out.

Like, I can halfway understand why they keep giving first and second round picks opportunity after opportunity to make sure they're absolutely sure before cutting them loose (even though this is mostly an irrational atrachment to a sunk cost). But this is not the same thing.

By the way, being 6'8" helps if you're trying to be an offensive tackle, but is exactly the opposite for defensive tackle.

[ETL]

It may be time to use a #1 pick on a NT like we did when we drafted Hampton. McCullers did not impress me yesterday

[Fire Goodell]

It may be time to use a #1 pick on a NT like we did when we drafted Hampton. McCullers did not impress me yesterday

Don't know if we need to spend a 1 on a NT. Hargrave is the perfect NT for modern type offenses. But it would be nice to have a space eater on the roster for the power rushing teams, though they're not very common. Jacksonville is one of the few

[steelreserve]

Don't know if we need to spend a 1 on a NT. Hargrave is the perfect NT for modern type offenses. But it would be nice to have a space eater on the roster for the power rushing teams, though they're not very common. Jacksonville is one of the few

Hargrave alternates between good and invisible. I don't really know why. It's a damn sight better than the non-functional Steve McLendon head-against-wall strategy that we used for half a decade, but it would be nice if we had someone who was more consistently disruptive.

[Mojouw]

Drafting a NT in the first round would be a criminal allocation of resources.

Vita Vea was drafted 12th overall to be that run-stopping presence in the center of a D-line and he has 1 sack, and like 5 tackles for a team that is 32nd overall on defense and #19 against the run.

Andrew Billings was also supposed to be this amazing DT. He has done nothing. He plays in the middle for a team that ranks dead last against the run.

I could go on, but hopefully the point is clear. Run plugging NTs are the Maginot Line of NFL defensive options. 2018 NFL offenses will just blitzkrieg right by them. While improving on McCullers wouldn't be the worst idea, only with a lower round pick -- which they tried to do with Frazier and Big Dan straight up beat him out for the roster spot.

As to Hargrave - he looks good whenever the let him play pass rush downs. While I understand why any team would want to play Tuitt and Heyward as much as possible, I find it confounding why Hargrave doesn't get some rotational run as a nickel pass rusher. He is really darn good at it.

[pczach]

Drafting a NT in the first round would be a criminal allocation of resources.

Vita Vea was drafted 12th overall to be that run-stopping presence in the center of a D-line and he has 1 sack, and like 5 tackles for a team that is 32nd overall on defense and #19 against the run.

Andrew Billings was also supposed to be this amazing DT. He has done nothing. He plays in the middle for a team that ranks dead last against the run.

I could go on, but hopefully the point is clear. Run plugging NTs are the Maginot Line of NFL defensive options. 2018 NFL offenses will just blitzkrieg right by them. While improving on McCullers wouldn't be the worst idea, only with a lower round pick -- which they tried to do with Frazier and Big Dan straight up beat him out for the roster spot.

As to Hargrave - he looks good whenever the let him play pass rush downs. While I understand why any team would want to play Tuitt and Heyward as much as possible, I find it confounding why Hargrave doesn't get some rotational run as a nickel pass rusher. He is really darn good at it.



Hargraves' explosiveness and natural pass rushing ability is what made me fall in love with him coming out of college. His ability to defeat and shed blockers and explode towards the objective is what made him special in my mind.

I wish they could find a way to get him on the field more, but the pass rush has been tremendous with Heyward, Tuitt, Watt, and Dupree getting after the QB. They are getting pressure with just 4, and the defense is playing much better because of it.

I guess it's a good problem to have, but man....

[steelreserve]

Drafting a NT in the first round would be a criminal allocation of resources.

...

I could go on, but hopefully the point is clear. Run plugging NTs are the Maginot Line of NFL defensive options. 2018 NFL offenses will just blitzkrieg right by them. While improving on McCullers wouldn't be the worst idea, only with a lower round pick -- which they tried to do with Frazier and Big Dan straight up beat him out for the roster spot.


This is not directed to you specifically, but a PSA to clear up what seems to be a misconception among about half to two-thirds of fans still:

THE NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A RUN STUFFER
THE NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A RUN STUFFER
THE NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A RUN STUFFER
THE NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A RUN STUFFER
THE NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A RUN STUFFER
THE NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A RUN STUFFER

There is no place in a modern 3-4 defense for a lineman who only does that, or even mostly does that. The main desirable attribute of a nose tackle in 2018 is to be DISRUPTIVE, whether that's against the run or the pass.

Using Casey Hampton as an example - he was not a great nose tackle because he stopped the run. He was a great nose tackle because whether it was a running play or a passing play, it was like trying to block a bull.

Despite the fact that the pass has become so much more prevalent, a lot of the same things that help a NT contribute to the pass rush are also really good against the run. It is amazing how much difference it makes on a running play if you can consistently shove the center backwards three yards and make the guard come over to help. That's also really good for collapsing the pocket on a passing play. Hampton in his best years - in other words, up through 2009 or so - would have been a great nose tackle in today's defense or any other time, just because he was a dominant athlete and very disruptive across all situations.

What this means is that the days of the old nose tackle who is the "anchor" in the middle of the line are long gone. That's a very situational skill that most teams are not willing to use a roster spot on, much less a high draft pick. Unfortunately, that's what we have in McCullers, and it is irrelevant to the defense we are trying to run. (I would argue, as before, that there is a place for a guy like that as one DT in a 4-3 if the other DT is the disruptive rusher, but that is not very useful to us.)

Hargrave is exactly what a modern 3-4 NT is supposed to be, just not as dominant as a Hampton. In fact, it is very difficult to find someone like that. That is what Billings was SUPPOSED to be, what Louis Nix III was supposed to be, what Terrance Cody was supposed to be ... but it seems like what happens is that there are a handful of guys who look like that kind of athlete coming out of college, and out of that handful, most of them either cannot translate it to the pros, or end up injured.

But if you actually can get that kind of interior presence, it absolutely would be worth a R1 draft pick. It is just so damn hard to figure out which are for real, and rare that it coincides with your team having a pick to spend without some other urgent need at the same time.

[polamalubeast]

Casey Hampton was a great pick and a great player, but in today's NFL, very questionable that Hampton would have been a first round pick with the way the NFL has changed.

I know Hampton was doubling, but at the same time, Hampton only had 9 sacks in his career, so he was not a pass rusher ... he was incredible against the run and very useful in the 2000s but he would be less useful in this decade because teams are rarely in the base defense now.

He would be very useful against teams like the Jaguars, but very few teams are built like the jaguars.

[Mojouw]

Say we have a spectrum from Aaron Donald to Sam Adams/Ted Washington for what a DT/NT can play like.

For 2018 and beyond you want to be as close to the Donald pole of that spectrum as you can get.

What the Steelers have attempted to do is to get both ends of the spectrum covered with a 3rd round pick and a 7th round pick. Not a bad plan for a position that plays about a 3rd of total defensive snaps.

[steelreserve]

Say we have a spectrum from Aaron Donald to Sam Adams/Ted Washington for what a DT/NT can play like.

For 2018 and beyond you want to be as close to the Donald pole of that spectrum as you can get.

What the Steelers have attempted to do is to get both ends of the spectrum covered with a 3rd round pick and a 7th round pick. Not a bad plan for a position that plays about a 3rd of total defensive snaps.

It depends on the player. If you have an Aaron Donald type of talent at NT, that position had better be paying close to 100 percent of defensive snaps or you are an idiot.

If you have an anchor / space-filler NT, then that position had better be on the field for about zero percent of snaps, or you are also an idiot.

[Mojouw]

It depends on the player. If you have an Aaron Donald type of talent at NT, that position had better be paying close to 100 percent of defensive snaps or you are an idiot.

If you have an anchor / space-filler NT, then that position had better be on the field for about zero percent of snaps, or you are also an idiot.

Yup. We are saying the same thing. I think Hargrave is a lesser type of Donald style talent and should see more snaps. Somehow.

Like someone else said, this is all a good problem to have.

But any discussion of drafting a NT to fill space or stop the run in the first round is just out of touch with reality. Again, here, I think we both agree.

[polamalubeast]

Where would be drafted a Casey Hampton type player in the NFL of today?

[steelreserve]

Yup. We are saying the same thing. I think Hargrave is a lesser type of Donald style talent and should see more snaps. Somehow.

Like someone else said, this is all a good problem to have.

But any discussion of drafting a NT to fill space or stop the run in the first round is just out of touch with reality. Again, here, I think we both agree.


Yeah, that's pretty much the crux of it. Hargrave is good at the NT role that we need for a modern defense; would be nice if we had a truly dominant DT like that, but those players are very rare. Probably only a few of them in the league at any given time. But I would definitely give up a high pick to get one.



Where would be drafted a Casey Hampton type player in the NFL of today?

It depends on whether you consider him a run-first defender or an all-around good NT. As I remember him, he was very effective against the pass because he could really create havoc and break down the pocket. He rarely got a sack, but he often allowed other people to get to the QB, or just ruined the play without causing a sack by turning it into one of those bullshit plays where the quarterback had to take off and make a rushed throw on the run, and couldn't wind up for a deep ball because that would mean a 400-pound fat guy would run into him.

For a guy like that, I would absolutely spend a first or second-round pick. But if you remember him mostly as a run stopper who didn't generate pressure or break down the pocket, then that's not worth much. That's what Hampton deteriorated into by the end of his career, and it didn't help us. I wonder if people's idea of a good NT is influenced by that ... thinking the game changed and passed Hampton by, rather than he simply got too old and lost effectiveness. For his first 7 or 8 years, I don't remember an "old-school" run-stuffing NT, I remember a guy who was explosive and created a lot of problems in the backfield against the run and against the pass, or in other words exactly what still makes a good NT.

[Hound]

The Steelers are heading into the end of the season playoff push, and if Mr Colbert can find a upgrade on the D line let’s do it. I’m not saying we need to find a starter, but let’s at least have a guy who can spell the NG without being a liability in the run. I’m happy with our starters. Can we get someone who can contribute? Dan has been bad for a long time and spent the first half of the game against the jaguars getting of the ground. They were doing this with 3rd and 4th string guys. Sorry but if he is on the field the Steelers are in trouble. Rewatch the first half of the game and watch Dan. He is on his back more than a Tijuana prostitute during New Years

[polamalubeast]

I would be very interested to see the stats of our run defense against the Jaguars with Dan on the field and without him on the field.

[GoSlash27]

It may be time to use a #1 pick on a NT like we did when we drafted Hampton. McCullers did not impress me yesterday

I think the 2019 draft will be just like all the others; the Steelers will draft whoever they consider to be the best player available in the first round, even if they don't *need* a player in that position. The building and project players come later.
Happens pretty much every year and the analysts are confused pretty much every year.

[polamalubeast]

1065388112493240320

[polamalubeast]

1065394194569707520

[Hound]

Guess he didn’t grade out so well? He needs to be axed and a NG who can play the run needs to be brought in as depth. The season is now, and this guy is a liability! Alan Branch is a guy I would like to see the Steelers bring in(as long as he passes a physical). I know the picking is slim, but there has to be someone out there better than this guy.

[Dwinsgames]

actually FWIW ... prior to Sunday McCullers was better vs the run than Hargrave ( yes I was shocked too ) a half yard better to be exact ....

1065389754395574283

[HollywoodSteel]

He was a long shot project guy from the beginning, and this is roughly where he still is now. Not difficult to figure out.

Like, I can halfway understand why they keep giving first and second round picks opportunity after opportunity to make sure they're absolutely sure before cutting them loose (even though this is mostly an irrational atrachment to a sunk cost). But this is not the same thing.

By the way, being 6'8" helps if you're trying to be an offensive tackle, but is exactly the opposite for defensive tackle.

Give Big Dan to Munch. He’ll turn him into a pro bowl offensive tackle within a year. :)

[Hound]

The jaguars game was the most significant time Dan has played all year, we all saw the results against their backups. The film does not lie.

[Dwinsgames]

The jaguars game was the most significant time Dan has played all year, we all saw the results against their backups. The film does not lie.

79 snaps on the year on defense ....

to be fair ......

taking a guy who is that size and not used to getting a lot of snaps and then suddenly giving them a bunch all at once ( no stamina for it ) and then doing so in the heat when you live where it is currently cold , may not have been the wisest coaching call in the world either .... just saying

[Hound]

It’s his JOB! I’m over hearing the excuses for this guy. The heat? It was in the low 70’s with a 7mph wind. Sorry Dan, I know you were hot and you were going against backups but you need to try harder not to get knocked over and pushed back.

[st33lersguy]

There's always the 7th round draft pick from Alabama, I think he's still available

[Hound]

Well it looks like Dan will get another large dose of playing time this week. Hopefully he can at least anchor and give Hargraves a breather.