Maybe this WR thing didn't Quite Work Out

[Mojouw]

I hate to say it, but I think the Steelers overcompensated with the drafting of James Washington. They wanted to ensure the deep ball stayed a part of the offense and being Rudolph's security blanket didn't hurt.

But Washington looks, well, lost? Not ready? Something less than positive. Meanwhile, this kid was drafted in the 5th round and looks every inch a legitimate deep threat and playmaker -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/ValdMa00.htm

The sad part is, that the "deep threat" is really the ONLY missing element on offense right now.

I am not saying that Washington won't develop into a good or even really good WR, but I just don't think he is what they thought he was.

Maybe, I'm just in crappy mood today -- but either you can run a "go" route and get open in the NFL or you can't. I mean even Sammi Coates could run the route - He just couldn't catch. We don't even know if Washington can catch because it looks like he can't separate.

Perhaps I'm over-reacting and all the kid needs is a chance...but I dunno.

[86WARD]

I think he needs time to develop. You say they are missing a deep threat...but do they really need one at the moment?

[Mojouw]

I think he needs time to develop. You say they are missing a deep threat...but do they really need one at the moment?

Never hurts. That is a significant component of why AB isn't automatically open 15 times a game. They are rolling far more help his way because no one scares other teams on the opposing side of the field deep.

Obviously, it is not necessary but it would certainly be more than helpful to have one.

My only point is that being a deep threat WR was what Washington was drafted to do. Other guys that were drafted to do the same thing (Valdez Scantling, TreQuan Smith) are doing the thing and Washington is not. Makes me raise an eyebrow and wonder what is going on. No one seems to have an explanation and Fichtner raves about the kid. So, I'm not freaking out or anything, but thought it was worth rolling out there and seeing what others thought.

[Mach1]

AB wasn't an All Pro his rookie season.

[Shoes]

I think he will be fine, he seemed to play well in preseason then kinda flatten out. Unfortunately Hunter can’t get it together.

i know Hodges is a TE but he’s big fast and has good hands, Griffey 6’3” and is also on the PS. Why not rotate some of these guy in? Like Allen for Burns, I mean could he really be worse?

[cubanstogie]

Ju Ju spoiled us, raised the bar. Plus with emergence of Vance or I should say Vance staying healthy there’s just not enough touches to go around.

[Fire Goodell]

Juju and AB seem to be making some big plays, I don't think we're necessarily missing a big play threat.

[AtlantaDan]

Maybe WRs are as interchangeable as RBs for winning :noidea:

Other than Gronk the Pats have worked with interchangeable parts while the Seahawks, Broncos and Eagles won Lombardis without brimming over with great WRs

AB’s targets are down the last several games and the offense is doing fine

[SteelMember]

I think Mojouw is just moody... :chuckle:

[tube517]

Fire Darryl Drake!!!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yeah, I thought for sure that Washington would be an important part of this offense as the #3 WR, or #5 option behind AB, JuJu, RB(Conner), TE. He looked real good in preseason and his work ethic, hands and speed are all there. Maybe he ends up contributing like Nate Washington did back in the day when he was a rookie....at the playoff run.

[Fire Goodell]

AB didn't really start making noise in his rookie season until the playoffs. And Sanders the same year, not until late in the season. Can happen. I'm liking Switzer's production as a #3/#4, he came up big last week with a few key 1st downs. Doesn't seem to fear making catches over the middle either. I'm really liking that Switzer kid, seems like a steal for a 5th round pick.

[lipps83]

I always felt Washington just looked kind of awkward. To me, he doesn't really seem to be a WR type of player.

As others have said, he certainly can develop into a productive player.

However, I am going to give it the trusty eyeball test half a season in and go ahead and say "I doubt it". I never liked the pick either even though I understood why they made the pick having just traded Bryant.

He reminds me of how I felt about Jarvis Jones. Didn't like the pick, but understood the selection. Being a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers made me hopeful. Reality sets in and then you realize the kid just can't play.

Hopefully he makes me eat crow.

[86WARD]

Never hurts. That is a significant component of why AB isn't automatically open 15 times a game. They are rolling far more help his way because no one scares other teams on the opposing side of the field deep.

Obviously, it is not necessary but it would certainly be more than helpful to have one.

My only point is that being a deep threat WR was what Washington was drafted to do. Other guys that were drafted to do the same thing (Valdez Scantling, TreQuan Smith) are doing the thing and Washington is not. Makes me raise an eyebrow and wonder what is going on. No one seems to have an explanation and Fichtner raves about the kid. So, I'm not freaking out or anything, but thought it was worth rolling out there and seeing what others thought.

I’m not saying your wrong at all and won’t disagree but they’ve been doing pretty good without it at the moment. I think there are more options in Pittsburgh for Ben than what Rodgers and Brees have on their respective teams as well. Those guys are getting more opportunities due to lack of talent where Washington is behind a lot more talent.

You kinda make it sound like AB isn’t so good without Martavis Bryant or Mike Wallace. ;)

[Mojouw]

I’m not saying your wrong at all and won’t disagree but they’ve been doing pretty good without it at the moment. I think there are more options in Pittsburgh for Ben than what Rodgers and Brees have on their respective teams as well. Those guys are getting more opportunities due to lack of talent where Washington is behind a lot more talent.

You kinda make it sound like AB isn’t so good without Martavis Bryant or Mike Wallace. ;)

It's not that he isn't good it is that it isn't easy when no one is worried about a deep threat to pull coverages apart vertically. They are great at spreading defenses horizontally with Juju, Vance, and Conner.

I'm just saying that AB is on pace for his lowest # of catches per game, yards per game, catch %, and second lowest yards per catch. It by no means that AB is still not amazing. It means that defenses are making the Steelers work just a bit harder for the results.

[Craic]

I also have to wonder if it isn't a bit more about scheming. Without that deep ball that is the lowest percentage pass, Ben's having one of his statistically best years in yards per game, QB average, top 1/3 in TD percentage, and absolute top in sack percentage. The only thing that is middle of the road is his yards per completion average. It'd be nice to see someone stretch the field and be a legitimate threat, but I'm not too worried about it because if need be, that can be JuJu in a pinch.

[86WARD]

It's not that he isn't good it is that it isn't easy when no one is worried about a deep threat to pull coverages apart vertically. They are great at spreading defenses horizontally with Juju, Vance, and Conner.

I'm just saying that AB is on pace for his lowest # of catches per game, yards per game, catch %, and second lowest yards per catch. It by no means that AB is still not amazing. It means that defenses are making the Steelers work just a bit harder for the results.

Yet it seems like the Steelers are getting the results easier.

[Mojouw]

I also have to wonder if it isn't a bit more about scheming. Without that deep ball that is the lowest percentage pass, Ben's having one of his statistically best years in yards per game, QB average, top 1/3 in TD percentage, and absolute top in sack percentage. The only thing that is middle of the road is his yards per completion average. It'd be nice to see someone stretch the field and be a legitimate threat, but I'm not too worried about it because if need be, that can be JuJu in a pinch.


Yet it seems like the Steelers are getting the results easier.

I get that and I'm not saying the sky is falling or that anything is actually wrong. I just wonder a few things. And maybe it is scheme. Maybe without Haley and Arians there to insist that they push the ball deep down the sidelines there is no call for the 2-4 deep shots per game that until this season seemed mandatory.

If that is the case, then great! If it is because Washington is so raw and imprecise as a route runner that he can't run a simple "GO" route or deep post against NFL DBs, than less than great?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yet it seems like the Steelers are getting the results easier.

Every day I log on, I see what should be 6 Lombardi trophies(there is one Lombardi and a pic of Chief).....not 6 Receiving Titles.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I get that and I'm not saying the sky is falling or that anything is actually wrong. I just wonder a few things. And maybe it is scheme. Maybe without Haley and Arians there to insist that they push the ball deep down the sidelines there is no call for the 2-4 deep shots per game that until this season seemed mandatory.

If that is the case, then great! If it is because Washington is so raw and imprecise as a route runner that he can't run a simple "GO" route or deep post against NFL DBs, than less than great?

Do you really think a Belitnekoff award winner for the best WR in College and a guy with more 40yard+ receiving TD's than anybody else in 2017 in college cant run a 9 ?? You can watch his NFL Combine workout where he runs great routes and Michael Irvin comments on how much he likes Washington in that workout.

The kid is a receiver that can work outside or from the slot, but for whatever reason hasn't established himself yet as the #3 WR. Honestly, I think there are too many other receiving options with guys that aren't rookies, like AB, JuJu, James, McDonald, Conner. Also, its been years since Fichtner was a OC, but he wasn't known for a lot of guys running vertical routes.

[Mojouw]

Do you really think a Belitnekoff award winner for the best WR in College and a guy with more 40yard+ receiving TD's than anybody else in 2017 in college cant run a 9 ?? You can watch his NFL Combine workout where he runs great routes and Michael Irvin comments on how much he likes Washington in that workout.

The kid is a receiver that can work outside or from the slot, but for whatever reason hasn't established himself yet as the #3 WR. Honestly, I think there are too many other receiving options with guys that aren't rookies, like AB, JuJu, James, McDonald, Conner. Also, its been years since Fichtner was a OC, but he wasn't known for a lot of guys running vertical routes.

Ok. Maybe he can. But almost every pre-draft scouting report I read and I have no idea what their quality was or wasn't, but they all spoke about how he was raw and imprecise as a route runner. Many seemingly knowledgeable outlets with tape and examples questioned Washington's ability to get in and out of breaks with precision and proper footwork and balance. Several further questioned whether he would transition smoothly from the wild wild west of his college conference to the more technical and precision oriented coverages in the NFL.

I am by no means giving up on Washington or claiming that the team "missed" on the pick. I am simply wondering out loud whether his lack of production of any kind is an inability to get open, scheme, poor route running, not being needed in the offense, lack of rapport with Ben, etc, etc...

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I think he is coming a long fine and just not enough balls to go around. He has skills and showed them in preseason!

[BlackAndGold]

Just a feeling I have but, Washington Imo is going to make a big play sometime in the next few weeks and it'll be something teams will watch for come playoff time.

[Fire Goodell]

Just a feeling I have but, Washington Imo is going to make a big play sometime in the next few weeks and it'll be something teams will watch for come playoff time.

Good, hopefully they stop watching AB, Juju, and Conner :chuckle:

[Hound]

Kids a rookie, give it some time. AB wasn’t lighting up Pittsburgh when he first got here. Saw some spectacular plays in the preseason, I’m not ready to call it quits.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Ok. Maybe he can. But almost every pre-draft scouting report I read and I have no idea what their quality was or wasn't, but they all spoke about how he was raw and imprecise as a route runner. Many seemingly knowledgeable outlets with tape and examples questioned Washington's ability to get in and out of breaks with precision and proper footwork and balance. Several further questioned whether he would transition smoothly from the wild wild west of his college conference to the more technical and precision oriented coverages in the NFL.

I am by no means giving up on Washington or claiming that the team "missed" on the pick. I am simply wondering out loud whether his lack of production of any kind is an inability to get open, scheme, poor route running, not being needed in the offense, lack of rapport with Ben, etc, etc...

Have a look at the below link to a video of where Mike Mayock and Charles Davis break down Washington at the Senior Bowl. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000909844/Mike-Mayock-explains-why-height-isn-t-a-concern-for-OKST-WR-James-Washington

They go over his 226 career catches, average of 20 yards per catch, strength, speed, 34" long arms, strong build like a RB, etc. Davis does say he will need more exposure to the route tree in the NFL, which basically is saying he probably ran more deep routes than the rest of the tree. I still believe 100% that the kid is gonna be good for a long time for the Steelers.

[slippy]

what is he like 22 years old? give him more than nine games please.

why can't we all remember how dreadful Conner looked last year, like a wasted feel good pick. but now he can block and catch on a pro bowl level along with his always fierce running ability.

[Mojouw]

Have a look at the below link to a video of where Mike Mayock and Charles Davis break down Washington at the Senior Bowl. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000909844/Mike-Mayock-explains-why-height-isn-t-a-concern-for-OKST-WR-James-Washington

They go over his 226 career catches, average of 20 yards per catch, strength, speed, 34" long arms, strong build like a RB, etc. Davis does say he will need more exposure to the route tree in the NFL, which basically is saying he probably ran more deep routes than the rest of the tree. I still believe 100% that the kid is gonna be good for a long time for the Steelers.

I saw that link and for every positive review of the guy's route running, we can find a negative one. Happens for almost every prospect outside the top 15 to 20 guys each class. I think everyone is assuming that I am passing some sort of final judgement of Washinton's capability and I'm really not. All I am saying is that he has less catches and yards than any other WR drafted in the first 3 rounds of the 2018 draft (10 in total). And he ranks about 16th out of 30 guys in the whole draft class -- with only 5 of the other 15 or so getting playing time.

I'm asking the question of why that is? In the NFL you tend not to get the ball when either you are not open, the QB doesn't trust you, or you are simply buried behind superior playmakers.

If everyone seems convinced that it is the third option, then whatever, it is what it is. If it is some aspect of the first two, I wonder if the issue is correctable over time or if Washington has a flaw as a WR that wasn't seen at the college level due to competition, scheme, etc. Since, no one else seems to have a single iota of concern, I'll stop worrying.

[GBMelBlount]

I'm asking the question of why that is?

In the NFL you tend not to get the ball when either you are:

1. not open

2. the QB doesn't trust you, or

3. you are simply buried behind superior playmakers.



While it could be all three, from the little I have seen I would guess it is more 2. & 3.

However 2. could be possibly best stated as they are simply not on the same page yet.

[Mojouw]

While it could be all three, from the little I have seen I would guess it is more 2. & 3.

However 2. could be possibly best stated as they are simply not on the same page yet.

I am hoping and, honestly, suspect that it may be. Some of the other more "productive" guys have been forced into more prominent roles. I just think it is really surprising that a guy as highly regarded and who was drafted as early as Washington has essentially now production in 9 games or whatever.

Not like any of this will matter. Since I started thinking about it, he will have 10 catches for over 250 yards and 3 scores in the next 4 games or something.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I saw that link and for every positive review of the guy's route running, we can find a negative one. Happens for almost every prospect outside the top 15 to 20 guys each class. I think everyone is assuming that I am passing some sort of final judgement of Washinton's capability and I'm really not. All I am saying is that he has less catches and yards than any other WR drafted in the first 3 rounds of the 2018 draft (10 in total). And he ranks about 16th out of 30 guys in the whole draft class -- with only 5 of the other 15 or so getting playing time.

I'm asking the question of why that is? In the NFL you tend not to get the ball when either you are not open, the QB doesn't trust you, or you are simply buried behind superior playmakers.

If everyone seems convinced that it is the third option, then whatever, it is what it is. If it is some aspect of the first two, I wonder if the issue is correctable over time or if Washington has a flaw as a WR that wasn't seen at the college level due to competition, scheme, etc. Since, no one else seems to have a single iota of concern, I'll stop worrying.

I'd say some of the issues for lack of production from Washington, other than being a rookie are as follows:
-AB, JuJu, McDonald, James all are good targets that Ben likes and there is only 1 football to go aroun
- James Conner and the Run game have been emphasized heavily in the offense
-Randy Fichtner's offense doesn't seem to favor a lot of vertical routes and that was Washington's biggest strength. The crossing routes, bubble screens and digs seem to be more drawn up for AB, JuJu and TE's.
-Washington may need to refine his ability to run the other routes in the passing tree, instead of just the 7,8 and 9

He's gonna be OK. I still thought he would be more involved by now, but really didn't know what Fichtner offense was going to be like. A lot of East-West, with blocking WR's and bubble screens like at Memphis or something more vertical like BA.

[DesertSteel]

The Steelers are Wide Receiver U....... trust the process...... It'll work out.

[Mojouw]

I'd say some of the issues for lack of production from Washington, other than being a rookie are as follows:
-AB, JuJu, McDonald, James all are good targets that Ben likes and there is only 1 football to go aroun
- James Conner and the Run game have been emphasized heavily in the offense
-Randy Fichtner's offense doesn't seem to favor a lot of vertical routes and that was Washington's biggest strength. The crossing routes, bubble screens and digs seem to be more drawn up for AB, JuJu and TE's.
-Washington may need to refine his ability to run the other routes in the passing tree, instead of just the 7,8 and 9

He's gonna be OK. I still thought he would be more involved by now, but really didn't know what Fichtner offense was going to be like. A lot of East-West, with blocking WR's and bubble screens like at Memphis or something more vertical like BA.
I can see that and get behind that take. I liked the pick when it was made. I really liked it when Washington seemed to have a really good preseason. I liked it less when though half the year he seems to have been lost in the shuffle.

But, like I said, I am likely just finding something to worry about.

[86WARD]

Every day I log on, I see what should be 6 Lombardi trophies(there is one Lombardi and a pic of Chief).....not 6 Receiving Titles.

What?

[GoSlash27]

What?

:tomlinism:

[86WARD]

The Steelers are Wide Receiver U....... trust the process...... It'll work out.

Limas Swed.
Troy Edwards.
DeMarcus Ayers.
Sammie Coates.
Markus Wheaton.

There are quite a few that didn’t work out that well...

[teegre]

Washington has the physique more like a RB... thick... but, not tall & lean. When Ben has passed it to him, the balls have been “just” out of Washington’s grasp. JuJu catches those balls, because he’s taller/longer. AB catches those, because he’s AB. Once Ben figures out the best ball-placement for Washington, as BlackAndGold said, the floodgates will open.

[DesertSteel]

Washington has the physique more like a RB... thick... but, not tall & lean. When Ben has passed it to him, the balls have been “just” out of Washington’s grasp. JuJu catches those balls, because he’s taller/longer. AB catches those, because he’s AB. Once Ben figures out the best ball-placement for Washington, as BlackAndGold said, the floodgates will open.
Interesting comparing the measurable between the two.....

Height
JuJu 6'1"
JW 5'11"

Arm
JuJu 32 7/8"
JW 32 3/8"

Vert
JuJu 32.5"
JW 34.5"

40
JuJu 4.54
JW 4.54

I think JW will figure it out. This might be a redshirt year.... or better yet he'll have his confidence by the playoffs and be catching 3-4 balls for 40-50 yards, with a splash play here and there.

- - - Updated - - -


Limas Swed.
Troy Edwards.
DeMarcus Ayers.
Sammie Coates.
Markus Wheaton.

There are quite a few that didn’t work out that well...
I'm pretty sure that USC had a few RBs that weren't that great too :)

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Interesting comparing the measurable between the two.....

Height
JuJu 6'1"
JW 5'11"

Arm
JuJu 32 7/8"
JW 32 3/8"

Vert
JuJu 32.5"
JW 34.5"

40
JuJu 4.54
JW 4.54

I think JW will figure it out. This might be a redshirt year.... or better yet he'll have his confidence by the playoffs and be catching 3-4 balls for 40-50 yards, with a splash play here and there.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm pretty sure that USC had a few RBs that weren't that great too :)

Its kind of interesting that Washington was measured at the Senior Bowl with arm length of 33-7/8", but the Combine measurements his arms are 1.5" shorter.

[GBMelBlount]

I am hoping and, honestly, suspect that it may be. Some of the other more "productive" guys have been forced into more prominent roles.

I just think it is really surprising that a guy as highly regarded and who was drafted as early as Washington has essentially no production in 9 games or whatever.

Not like any of this will matter. Since I started thinking about it, he will have 10 catches for over 250 yards and 3 scores in the next 4 games or something.

Well, Ben has:

1. AB
2. JuJu
3. Vance, Jesse James (who looks like he lost an ear in a gunfight and it was sewn back on)
4. Conner
5. Switzer (surprisingly)
6. Washington, et al.

My guess (and hope) is that as things occur down the road (Vance breaks, AB slows down, etc.) that he will simply grow into a bigger role as he continues to develop and through attrition.

We are blessed to have such an incredible offense top to bottom imo.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nfl/players/full/2979590.png&w=350&h=254

[teegre]

Its kind of interesting that Washington was measured at the Senior Bowl with arm length of 33-7/8", but the Combine measurements his arms are 1.5" shorter.

I swear that it’s due to his shoulder pads. Really. The dude looks like he’s wearing Nix’s pads. :lol:

Joking aside, Washington “looks” like a RB to me.

[Hound]

Because the shit receivers that the Steelers drafted were listed, do we list the good ones? Steelers usually pick towards the bottom of the draft and USUALLY draft well and tend to crush it on receivers. Steelers haven’t stayed this good for so long by making big splashes in free agency. Look at some of the cornerstones on this team and think about when they were rookies. Cam, another wasted buckeye pick, Conner, not a starter wasted pick. Such a now culture we live in, give the kid some time

[DesertSteel]

Its kind of interesting that Washington was measured at the Senior Bowl with arm length of 33-7/8", but the Combine measurements his arms are 1.5" shorter.
His arms keep shrinking!! That’s why he can’t catch the ball.

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I swear that it’s due to his shoulder pads. Really. The dude looks like he’s wearing Nix’s pads. :lol:

Joking aside, Washington “looks” like a RB to me.
I’d like to see him on a few end arounds.

[cold-hard-steel]

Washington has the physique more like a RB... thick... but, not tall & lean. When Ben has passed it to him, the balls have been “just” out of Washington’s grasp. JuJu catches those balls, because he’s taller/longer. AB catches those, because he’s AB. Once Ben figures out the best ball-placement for Washington, as BlackAndGold said, the floodgates will open.

This kind of leads along the lines i was thinking.He has not made the few opportunities he's had count by jumping up,and coming down with the ball.I was in the frame of mind that he could battle for and come down with the ball in traffic. I don't know where i got that idea,but that was certainly my chain of thinking.Any way,i think when he starts to make some of those catches then we will see his opportunities start to increase.He seemed to be alright when Mason was throwing the rock.All in all i believe he will get it together and add yet another weapon to be at the offenses disposal.

[cold-hard-steel]

Every day I log on, I see what should be 6 Lombardi trophies(there is one Lombardi and a pic of Chief).....not 6 Receiving Titles.

Good ism ,i tend you use that myself from time to time "The old Rush-hardism" i like to call it. Oh that Mike.He sure has an enviable way with words. Wonder what his phrase is for the "MACH-5".

[teegre]

This kind of leads along the lines i was thinking.He has not made the few opportunities he's had count by jumping up,and coming down with the ball.I was in the frame of mind that he could battle for and come down with the ball in traffic. I don't know where i got that idea,but that was certainly my chain of thinking.Any way,i think when he starts to make some of those catches then we will see his opportunities start to increase.He seemed to be alright when Mason was throwing the rock.All in all i believe he will get it together and add yet another weapon to be at the offenses disposal.

You are correct about contested balls. One of the knocks on Rudolph was that he’d simply toss the ball up, and Washington would fight for (and usually get) the ball.

From what I’ve seen, Washington has been open, but the ball simply doesn’t get to the right place for him to catch it. That is NOT a knock on Ben; but, it’s the truth. It’s as if Ben assumes that Washington will cut/stop at the 30 yard line, and instead, Washington cuts/stops at the 33 yard line.

#theyrenotonthesamepageyet
#timingtakestime
#JuJuwasananomoly

[cold-hard-steel]

Yeah man,my concerns for this team is not really at the WR pos.

[Istina]

James Washingtion is a rookie
he high points the ball
he catches it with his hands
he will learn the offense
I've heard nothing about him being lazy, a malcontent, sulking, etc.
AB wasn't AB his rookie year

Washington will be a good addition to the receiving corps, maybe not this year but next year. The Steelers have other guys that are stepping up, including two tight ends and last minute pickup of a return man and chain mover.

[Mojouw]

Odd. Maybe not be able to attack vertically is a problem.

[AtlantaDan]

Odd. Maybe not be able to attack vertically is a problem.

Or just forcing the ball to AB

Brown got in Ben’s ear after AB beat Ramsey deep and has been forcing it to AB (and ignoring JuJu) ever since

[Mojouw]

Or just forcing the ball to AB

Brown got in Ben’s ear after AB beat Ramsey deep and has been forcing it to AB (and ignoring JuJu) ever since

Sure. That is terrible too. But the Steelers have been killing teams working across the middle. The Jags are totally compressing and taking that space away because the feel ZERO need to roll their safeties deep and outside the hashmarks because there is no threat of a vertical route beating them.

If you can not threaten a defense as good as the Jags in all directions, they will make the field really crowded real quick and force sacks and turnovers -- which is exactly what his happening and why I am no going to do chores prior to family arriving for the holiday week than watch the rest of this crap-fest. :)

[Mojouw]

This damn team. Sucked me back.in!

[Mojouw]

I re-submit for your consideration that James Washington is not currently a NFL caliber WR.

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/11/film-room-james-washington-struggling-with-limited-route-tree/

Those are some bad rounded off routes. He seems to have no ability to impact on a football field in the NFL.

I guess he gets a "redshirt" year and hope for the best next year? So...the Limas Sweed plan?

[Shoes]

Well, I've been hearing about the great WR's on this team for the last 5 years or so that should have put up 30+ points a game and it never happened. I think Washington will be fine. Tomlin said yesterday he had a great deal of confidence in him.

[Mojouw]

Well, I've been hearing about the great WR's on this team for the last 5 years or so that should have put up 30+ points a game and it never happened. I think Washington will be fine. Tomlin said yesterday he had a great deal of confidence in him.

Hopefully. So far I see no redeeming value in Washington. He runs crappy routes. He only appears to know small portions of the playbook. He has lost all situational awareness on a football field. The list goes on. This is the same team and system that made useful players out of "one trick ponies" before at the WR position. A system that allowed Cobi Hamilton and Demarcus Ayers to look like functional NFL caliber WRs. Not to mention Sammie Coates. For me the inability of Washington to do anything useful in essentially the same circumstances is not a good indicator.

All that being said, he wouldn't be the first or last WR prospect to take a year or so to make his mark in the NFL. I'm not saying to give up on the kid, but I think there are more than enough data points to start getting seriously concerned that Washington may not have "it".

[86WARD]

Hopefully. So far I see no redeeming value in Washington. He runs crappy routes. He only appears to know small portions of the playbook. He has lost all situational awareness on a football field. The list goes on. This is the same team and system that made useful players out of "one trick ponies" before at the WR position. A system that allowed Cobi Hamilton and Demarcus Ayers to look like functional NFL caliber WRs. Not to mention Sammie Coates. For me the inability of Washington to do anything useful in essentially the same circumstances is not a good indicator.

All that being said, he wouldn't be the first or last WR prospect to take a year or so to make his mark in the NFL. I'm not saying to give up on the kid, but I think there are more than enough data points to start getting seriously concerned that Washington may not have "it".

*cough* LIMAS *cough* SWEED

[Mojouw]

*cough* LIMAS *cough* SWEED

That's what my gut tells me. But it also tells me to eat tons of terrible food and unhealthy snacks all day every day. So who knows!

[86WARD]

That's what my gut tells me. But it also tells me to eat tons of terrible food and unhealthy snacks all day every day. So who knows!

My gut tells me the same...it’s always talking junk food...lol

[Shoes]

That's what my gut tells me. But it also tells me to eat tons of terrible food and unhealthy snacks all day every day. So who knows!


Artie Burns. :chuckle:

[vasteeler]

*cough* LIMAS *cough* SWEED

I just said the same thing in a different thread. I sure hope he doesn't turn out like Sweed did

[st33lersguy]

Some other WRs that did little to nothing their rookie years: Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Hines Ward. AB also did very little outside of those two playoff catches and the return TD against the Titans

[Shoes]

Some other WRs that did little to nothing their rookie years: Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Hines Ward. AB also did very little outside of those two playoff catches and the return TD against the Titans

Many were high on Sammie Coates with all his "tape" but he has bounced from team to team with 1 rec for 12 yards (2018) and 4 years in the NFL. My money is on rookie Washington.

[AtlantaDan]

Some other WRs that did little to nothing their rookie years: Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Hines Ward. AB also did very little outside of those two playoff catches and the return TD against the Titans

74 Steelers did not pass much but Swann (2 starts/11 regular season catches) led the league in punt return yardage (577) and made an epic back of the end zone toe tap TD catch in the AFC championship game.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SwanLy00.htm

I also recall Stallworth made a one handed TD catch that was incorrectly ruled out of bounds in the Raiders AFC championship game.

So there were signs Swan, Stallworth and AB could be very good. Zip from Washington so far.

FWIW Gerry Dulac of the P-G remains optimistic for some reason

Any concerns with Washington? Another Big 12 receiver who can't shine in the NFL. Thank you.

Gerry Dulac: Not concerns, just surprised, based on what I saw in the spring and summer. I think his problem is his awareness of the ball relative to his spacing on the field. I think the deep incompletion is a perfect snapshot of James Washington right now -- a player who is so gifted he can float acrobatically in the air to lay out for a pass, but also a guy who didn't have to dive for the ball because he was unaware of his spacing. I still think JW will break out...soon!!

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/11/28/Gerry-Dulac-s-Steelers-chat-11-28-18/stories/201811280119

[Shoes]

74 Steelers did not pass much but Swann (2 starts/11 regular season catches) led the league in punt return yardage (577) and made an epic back of the end zone toe tap TD catch in the AFC championship game.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SwanLy00.htm

I also recall Stallworth made a one handed TD catch that was incorrectly ruled out of bounds in the Raiders AFC championship game.

So there were signs Swan, Stallworth and AB could be very good. Zip from Washington so far.

FWIW Gerry Dulac of the P-G remains optimistic for some reason

Any concerns with Washington? Another Big 12 receiver who can't shine in the NFL. Thank you.

Gerry Dulac: Not concerns, just surprised, based on what I saw in the spring and summer. I think his problem is his awareness of the ball relative to his spacing on the field. I think the deep incompletion is a perfect snapshot of James Washington right now -- a player who is so gifted he can float acrobatically in the air to lay out for a pass, but also a guy who didn't have to dive for the ball because he was unaware of his spacing. I still think JW will break out...soon!!

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/11/28/Gerry-Dulac-s-Steelers-chat-11-28-18/stories/201811280119


I agree with Dulac, I feel strongly Washington will pull it all together.

[Shoes]

I think Washington NFL career will be just like college, starts slow and gets better & better each year

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/james-washington-5.html

[tube517]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0468/9773/products/AlexanderHamilton1_large.jpg?v=1532974828 :chuckle:

[Fire Goodell]

I think it's premature to make a call on Washington yet. Sanders and Brown didn't do much until the postseason and it was still a really limited sample size. We were all kinda spoiled with Juju's production last year and Bryant at the time flashing some freakish athleticism. I think Washington will be fine, most rookie WR's take a while to adjust to the NFL game.

Let's be real about Juju, that guy was a steal. If the NFL knew how good this guy was he probably would have gone top 15.

[st33lersguy]

74 Steelers did not pass much but Swann (2 starts/11 regular season catches) led the league in punt return yardage (577) and made an epic back of the end zone toe tap TD catch in the AFC championship game.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SwanLy00.htm

I also recall Stallworth made a one handed TD catch that was incorrectly ruled out of bounds in the Raiders AFC championship game.

So there were signs Swan, Stallworth and AB could be very good. Zip from Washington so far.

FWIW Gerry Dulac of the P-G remains optimistic for some reason

Any concerns with Washington? Another Big 12 receiver who can't shine in the NFL. Thank you.

Gerry Dulac: Not concerns, just surprised, based on what I saw in the spring and summer. I think his problem is his awareness of the ball relative to his spacing on the field. I think the deep incompletion is a perfect snapshot of James Washington right now -- a player who is so gifted he can float acrobatically in the air to lay out for a pass, but also a guy who didn't have to dive for the ball because he was unaware of his spacing. I still think JW will break out...soon!!

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/11/28/Gerry-Dulac-s-Steelers-chat-11-28-18/stories/201811280119

Still though it is 11 games into Washington's career, not the time to hit the panic button

[86WARD]

I think it's premature to make a call on Washington yet. Sanders and Brown didn't do much until the postseason and it was still a really limited sample size. We were all kinda spoiled with Juju's production last year and Bryant at the time flashing some freakish athleticism. I think Washington will be fine, most rookie WR's take a while to adjust to the NFL game.

Let's be real about Juju, that guy was a steal. If the NFL knew how good this guy was he probably would have gone top 15.

That used to be the three year rule. But now a lot of the college offenses are not pro oriented so it’s not as long to develop as it used to be. WR is probably the hardest position to come out of college and play right away and while Washington showed promise in the preseason, he’s shown little to nothing in the regular season. I think if/when Rogers returns, we will see Washington as a healthy scratch pretty often.

[Fire Goodell]

That used to be the three year rule. But now a lot of the college offenses are not pro oriented so it’s not as long to develop as it used to be. WR is probably the hardest position to come out of college and play right away and while Washington showed promise in the preseason, he’s shown little to nothing in the regular season. I think if/when Rogers returns, we will see Washington as a healthy scratch pretty often.

We'll see, we don't know how ready Eli is to play yet. I won't call Washington a bust unless I don't see any improvement next year. Promise in the preseason though, that's already more than what we can say about Sweed lol.

[86WARD]

We'll see, we don't know how ready Eli is to play yet. I won't call Washington a bust unless I don't see any improvement next year. Promise in the preseason though, that's already more than what we can say about Sweed lol.

Dri Archer-like?

[DesertSteel]

We'll see, we don't know how ready Eli is to play yet. I won't call Washington a bust unless I don't see any improvement next year. Promise in the preseason though, that's already more than what we can say about Sweed lol.
Dude already showed that this year. I was pumped about him based on preseason showings. Bright lights came on and he wilted.

[pczach]

I think Washington has a chance to be a difference maker. He appears to have a lot of personal character, and he has a history of doing the difficult things as a receiver. His confidence has taken a hit, and he is trying to find himself.

He is clearly feeling the pressure of NFL football and it is in his head. I believe there has probably been a lot of encouragement and support from teammates, but he is now being challenged to be better. Some may argue that "his quarterback is throwing him under the bus", some may believe that encouragement and support isn't working and they are trying to get him to play the game angry. Different players respond to different things.....I know....crazy....right?

[Mojouw]

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/12/1/18119136/dont-worry-steelers-fans-james-washington-will-come-around-antonio-brown-juju-smith-schuster-nfl

Good article that gives many reasons for optimism.

[Shoes]

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/12/1/18119136/dont-worry-steelers-fans-james-washington-will-come-around-antonio-brown-juju-smith-schuster-nfl

Good article that gives many reasons for optimism.

good read, thanks!

[HollywoodSteel]

I think it's premature to make a call on Washington yet. Sanders and Brown didn't do much until the postseason and it was still a really limited sample size. We were all kinda spoiled with Juju's production last year and Bryant at the time flashing some freakish athleticism. I think Washington will be fine, most rookie WR's take a while to adjust to the NFL game.

Let's be real about Juju, that guy was a steal. If the NFL knew how good this guy was he probably would have gone top 15.

Yeah, Ju-Ju was a steal. And not even the biggest steal amongst our starting WRs. :)

[pczach]

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/12/1/18119136/dont-worry-steelers-fans-james-washington-will-come-around-antonio-brown-juju-smith-schuster-nfl

Good article that gives many reasons for optimism.



Great read.

This is one of the reasons that football players that come from some of these spread offenses are hard to project as NFL players. The things that are discussed in the article are the reason teams have doubts about quarterbacks as well. Everyone knew what Patrick Mahomes could do physically. What they didn't know was how he would respond mentally to the huge step up in complexity in NFL offenses.


The offensive coaches make the pre-snap calls and adjustments from the sidelines in many cases.


Washington played in a system that didn't require him to run a full route tree. In addition to that, most NFL offenses require that the WR needs to read the defense exactly the way the quarterback reads the defense to make adjustments to the routes they run. So they not only have to learn to run the entire route tree at the next level, they need to learn to identify defenses and adjust on the fly. That's why you see miscommunication between the quarterback and receivers. Many people watching football just don't understand that. When you see Ben throw a ball outside, and AB comes inside on a route, someone didn't read the defense correctly. When you listen to the comments of people, everyone assumes Ben missed his receivers because he was inaccurate when in fact, it's two players seeing different things or simply one of them making a mistake.

Honest NFL receivers will tell you that the vast majority of these miscommunications are the fault of the WR when there is an established, experienced quarterback. People always say they're not on the same page when actually, it is one person that made the incorrect read.

This is how football works.

James Washington just needs to push through to the other side. He has all the tools to do it. It is simply a mental hurdle he needs to navigate and a confidence issue that will resolve itself with small successes that build upon themselves. I'm confident this kid will be fine. We all hope it clicks this year, but it may not be until next year that we see real growth. Most WRs don't tear it up in their rookie season because the complete acclimation to the NFL isn't easy.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Many were high on Sammie Coates with all his "tape" but he has bounced from team to team with 1 rec for 12 yards (2018) and 4 years in the NFL. My money is on rookie Washington.

Those many that were high on him had B&G blinders on then. If they actually watched his "tape" from College and the NFL Combine, they would see that he had many "double catches" and "fought the football" when making catches. Never mind that he wasn't a natural at tracking the deep ball in the air. Coates had elite size, speed and made plays when he caught the football.

I said when he was drafted that fans will be wringing their hands, gnashing their teeth and bitching the first time he drops a pass, but jumping on the bandwagon when he makes a big play. The guy was a slot machine.

You just had to watch Coates gauntlet drill on NFL Network at the combine and see he wasn't a natural hands catcher. Similarly, you just have to watch James Washington's NFL Combine workout tape and see that he catches the ball naturally, tracks the deep ball well and runs good routes.