Le'Veon Bell is unlikely to report to the team by Tuesday's deadline

[polamalubeast]

1061423626187145216

1061424433615777797

[st33lersguy]

Good, as of Tuesday the team can be officially rid of Bell and they can officially put it past him (and questions about him will probably stop by say Friday). The guy is a cancer, plain and simple. It takes a team to win, not just the sum of all the parts. The Steelers have a great thing going and don't need a locker room cancer come in out of shape after months of partying, rapping, and bitching about being painted as the bad guy.

[teegre]

As I said elsewhere... if so, give that $14.5 million to Mike Hilton (three-year extension).

[polamalubeast]

1061425972480761856

[AtlantaDan]

1061425972480761856

Same from Rapoport, who appears to be hearing it from the Steelers

If he came back and was motivated Bell would be a great addition - given all the bullshit that has gone down and that he clearly fears getting injured probably better for everyone he is gone

IMO this puts him over the top to pass Barry Bonds as most hated Pittsburgh athlete

[polamalubeast]

I never wanted to see Bell play another snap with the steelers this year, so it's not a problem for me and I was not expecting Bell to play this year

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Well F him then and will glad to stop hearing about him soon.

- - - Updated - - -


As I said elsewhere... if so, give that $14.5 million to Mike Hilton (three-year extension). I'm all for that!

[polamalubeast]

1061432299726819328

[Lady Steel]

1061432299726819328


Well, it was his best season. While his teammates were working and sweating their balls off, he was rappin', playing basketball, riding jetskis, and hangin' out with strippers.

Bye, Felicia. Don't come back now, ya hear?!

[Dwinsgames]

The gamesmanship of Art2 can not be undersold here ...

The Lawyer in him came out and he pushed buttons methodically ...

He said exactly what Bell wanted to hear the other night in that interview " we want him back , we expect him back" and that Makes bell go into " I will show you mode" and do the opposite ...

so Art2 acting like he wanted and expected Le'veon to show up prior to the deadline may be exactly what kept him from showing up and in the process saving the team close to 15 million bucks for next years cap ....

[teegre]

The gamesmanship of Art2 can not be undersold here ...

The Lawyer in him came out and he pushed buttons methodically ...

He said exactly what Bell wanted to hear the other night in that interview " we want him back , we expect him back" and that Makes bell go into " I will show you mode" and do the opposite ...

so Art2 acting like he wanted and expected Le'veon to show up prior to the deadline may be exactly what kept him from showing up and in the process saving the team close to 15 million bucks for next years cap ....

ARII was playing chess, and Bell was playing chec- ...uh... Chutes-&-Ladders.

[Fire Goodell]

WELL 2018 would be his best season to date if they gave Conner a #26 jersey because he's blowing up.

I'll laugh if we win the SB this year without him, that'll be a sweet piece of bling he'll never be getting,, and you can't put a price tag on a championship

[Fire Goodell]

Le'Veon wears his franchise tag like a crown
He calls his child Conner cause he likes the name
And he sends him to the finest football team in town

Le'Veon, Le'Veon likes his money
He makes a lot they say
Spends his day makin it rain
down in Florida, Tootsie's Cabaret

In a contract dispute
on a fateful day
2nd time on the franchise tag
said i want more guaranteed
but the Steelers said no way

And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
And he shall be Le'Veon
Going against the Rooney's family plan
And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
He shall be Le'veon

Le'Veon sells rap albums out of town
His album doesn't really thrive
Conner blows up stats all day
In the end zone, watching terrible towels fly
Conner, he wants to go to Atlanta
Leave Le'Veon far behind
Win a championship and a Lombardi
While Le'Veon, can only watch and cry

In a contract dispute
on a fateful day
2nd time on the franchise tag
said i want more guaranteed
but the Steelers said no way

And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
And he shall be Le'Veon
Going against the Rooney's family plan
And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
He shall be Le'veon

And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
And he shall be Le'Veon
Going against the Rooney's family plan
And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
He shall be Le'veon

[Iron Steeler]

So if he does not show. He cant play for us or anyone else?

Which scenerio do we get draft picks for his departure? Thats all I want at this point

[GBMelBlount]

Le'Veon wears his franchise tag like a crown
He calls his child Conner cause he likes the name
And he sends him to the finest football team in town

Le'Veon, Le'Veon likes his money
He makes a lot they say
Spends his day makin it rain
down in Florida, Tootsie's Cabaret

In a contract dispute
on a fateful day
2nd time on the franchise tag
said i want more guaranteed
but the Steelers said no way

And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
And he shall be Le'Veon
Going against the Rooney's family plan
And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
He shall be Le'veon

Le'Veon sells rap albums out of town
His album doesn't really thrive
Conner blows up stats all day
In the end zone, watching terrible towels fly
Conner, he wants to go to Atlanta
Leave Le'Veon far behind
Win a championship and a Lombardi
While Le'Veon, can only watch and cry

In a contract dispute
on a fateful day
2nd time on the franchise tag
said i want more guaranteed
but the Steelers said no way

And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
And he shall be Le'Veon
Going against the Rooney's family plan
And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
He shall be Le'veon

And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
And he shall be Le'Veon
Going against the Rooney's family plan
And he shall be Le'Veon
And he shall be a rich man
He shall be Le'veon

:applaudit:

From the 2nd album I ever owned.

Given to me by my brother...who knew I loved Elton John

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d4/Elton_John_-_Madman_Across_the_Water.jpg/220px-Elton_John_-_Madman_Across_the_Water.jpg

My first album?

Yes, bubble gum rock!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4181pq2cboL.jpg

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

So if he does not show. He cant play for us or anyone else?

Which scenerio do we get draft picks for his departure? Thats all I want at this point If he doesn't sign he can't play this season period. As for draft pick possible 3rd in 2020 ?

[lipps83]

Do we have the chance to tag him next year? I hope they do and screw him further.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Anyhow he seems to get dumber by the moment! Sitting out the whole season is only making it worse. Yes some team with money will make a play for him but they will get him at a discount now. Way to many question marks with him now.

- - - Updated - - -

Rooney should Tweet don't bother passing the stick cause that is the only football you are going to play this year!

[Steeldude]

That is fantastic news.

Tag him again next season then trade him.

[steelreserve]

If you were going to sign by Tuesday, I don't know why you wouldn't sign as soon as Thursday's game is over. Unless you're just a dildo, which is possible. But yeah, I'd say signs point to no. Take a fuggn hike.

[ETL]

That is fantastic news.

Tag him again next season then trade him.

this is the Steelers best move as long as it nets a draft pick higher than round 3

[steelreserve]

this is the Steelers best move as long as it nets a draft pick higher than round 3

The big question is, do we want to tie up another $14.5 million in cap space when we already appear to have his replacement? Because who is to say the same thing doesn't happen again, and we end up in a situation where we can't sign him, can't trade him, and it's just a bunch of money sitting there?

Side note: Of all the things we can do with the $14.5M cap space rollover next year, the only thing I would say is dumber than this is if we pick up the $10 million option for Dupree.

[BlackAndGold]

The 3rd franchise tag is QB money. He'll walk and the Steelers will get a 3rd round comp pick in 2020.

[Craic]

The big question is, do we want to tie up another $14.5 million in cap space when we already appear to have his replacement? Because who is to say the same thing doesn't happen again, and we end up in a situation where we can't sign him, can't trade him, and it's just a bunch of money sitting there?

Side note: Of all the things we can do with the $14.5M cap space rollover next year, the only thing I would say is dumber than this is if we pick up the $10 million option for Dupree.

It won't be 14 million. It seems as though it is the QBs tag number, which is $23,189,000 this year (unless the Steelers can successfully argue that Bell gets the second tag rather than the third since he didn't sign the tender for the second tag). That being said, next year we should get all 14 million back from Bell, and also get another 8 million back from Shazier's salary, and drop over 6 million in dead money. That's 28 million in cap room right there. Personally, I say tag him with the non-exclusive tag and let him try to get himself traded so we get a first and a third round draft pick (second tag is two 1st round picks, third tag is 1st and 3rd). If Bell actually shows up to play, fine. We literally are not taking away from the cap space we had this year. We still come out with five million in cap space just by dropping dead money from this year, and that doesn't include the increase in the cap or players not resigning or the extra cap room we carried into this year. Moreover, of all the free agents after this year, the only two I think i want to keep is Hilton and Feiler. Jessie James we can keep around as well. Fort's 29, so I don't know if they'll keep him. Sensabaugh is thirty right now and foster is 33. I don't know if he stays or not. Probably not. So that extra 5 million for this year is enough to cover the free agents. A little shuffling of contracts and we're golden, and then get all 24 million in cap room back again the following year anyway.

[Craic]

The 3rd franchise tag is QB money. He'll walk and the Steelers will get a 3rd round comp pick in 2020.

I don't know why everyone's saying we get a 3rd round pick. If Bell sucks as much as everyone says he does, we're not going to get anything for him. Moreover, if we go out and pick ourselves up a good CB or LB like everyone wants, it'll negate a 3rd round pick pretty fast. Now, if we also lose Foster in the offseason, it'll help us out some with picks. How, I'm not sure, but it will.

[Fire Goodell]

If he sits out the entire year and tagging him next year would count the same as a 3rd tag, does that give ANY player an incentive to accept a 2nd franchise tag? Well other than being the highest paid at their position for a year lol.

But if this is the case I don't blame Bell for sitting out the entire year, for what he wants, a 2nd franchise tag would be counterproductive

With that said I still think he's a moron for turning down the Steelers deal

[BlackAndGold]

I don't know why everyone's saying we get a 3rd round pick. If Bell sucks as much as everyone says he does, we're not going to get anything for him. Moreover, if we go out and pick ourselves up a good CB or LB like everyone wants, it'll negate a 3rd round pick pretty fast. Now, if we also lose Foster in the offseason, it'll help us out some with picks. How, I'm not sure, but it will.

It'll depend on the $$$ he receives which I think will be enough to secure a 3rd.

[polamalubeast]

230394953266761729

[Lady Steel]

230394953266761729

That may have been true when he tweeted that six years ago, but it sure as hell isn't now. He is a hypocrite and a coward. He doesn't have the guts to face his teammates or the organization's top brass. He probably showed up in Pittsburgh thinking the organization and his teammates would be falling all over him and begging him to report. But that didn't happen because everyone is done with his lying ass.

[Fire Goodell]

230394953266761729

You know what some famous rap stars once said "Don't let money change youuuu" :chuckle:

[Steelerchad]

Bell will only be missed if Conner is injured. There is a clear drop off to Ridley. I like Samuels, but he is not the threat that Conner or Bell would be obviously.
Bell will never recoup this $14.5M he has left on the table. It would be fitting to get #7 this year without him, while he goes to an over paying bottom feeder and has 3 forgettable seasons before retiring due to wear and tear.

[polamalubeast]

I don't know why everyone's saying we get a 3rd round pick. If Bell sucks as much as everyone says he does, we're not going to get anything for him. Moreover, if we go out and pick ourselves up a good CB or LB like everyone wants, it'll negate a 3rd round pick pretty fast. Now, if we also lose Foster in the offseason, it'll help us out some with picks. How, I'm not sure, but it will.

Because for the compensation pick, the only thing that is important is the salary ....I mean, the steelers had a 3rd round pick for Mike Wallace, though he was not very good in his first year with Miami and the steelers only had a 5th round pick for Sanders despite his monster season with Denver at his first season.

[teegre]

Because for the compensation pick, the only thing that is important is the salary ....I mean, the steelers had a 3rd round pick for Mike Wallace, though he was not very good in his first year with Miami and the steelers only had a 5th round pick for Sanders despite his monster season with Denver at his first season.

:nod: Yep

The comp picks have nothing to do with performance; it is based off of salary. Ergo, we actually want Bell to get a $20 million/season deal. That way (as steelreserve has mentioned) if we sign a free agent or two, those salaries would would be offset, and we’d still get a R3 comp pick.

Honestly though, there aren’t any free agents hitting the market worth even half of Bell’s contract; plus, the Steelers simply don’t sign “big name” free agents. What will happen is: we will re-sign/extend “our” players (which does not factor into the comp picks)... and get a R3 in 2020 for Bell.

[AtlantaDan]

What will happen is: we will re-sign/extend “our” players (which does not factor into the comp picks)... and get a R3 in 2020 for Bell.

The extra $$$ from Bell may allow the Steelers to be more realistic on an extension for Ben and structure a contract where much of the bonus will be paid off while he is still playing rather than have a big dead money hit when Ben retires since there would be several years to run on the usual let's pretend length of his contract to amortize the bonus

Lots of contracts that could be extended prior to start of next season

Contracts that expire after 2018 season
Foster

Contracts that expire after 2019 season (other than Ben Steelers traditionally negotiate extensions before start of regular season for last year of contract)
Ben
Pouncey
Gilbert
Haden
Dupree
Davis
Hargrave

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/contracts/

[teegre]

The extra $$$ from Bell may allow the Steelers to be more realistic on an extension for Ben and structure a contract where much of the bonus will be paid off while he is still playing rather than have a big dead money hit when Ben retires since there would be several years to run on the usual let's pretend length of his contract to amortize the bonus

Lots of contracts that could be extended prior to start of next season

Contracts that expire after 2018 season
Foster

Contracts that expire after 2019 season (other than Ben Steelers traditionally negotiate extensions before start of regular season for last year of contract)
Ben
Pouncey
Gilbert
Haden
Dupree
Davis
Hargrave

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/contracts/

Exactly

They have the option to...

a) prepare for Ben’s retirement, by paying off his salary now.

b) extend their core group of players.

c) go for broke and “Win now!!!” by splurging on free agents.

SUMMATION:
I’m betting on a little bit from A and a little bit from B (a la Grampa Simpson).

[steelreserve]

Exactly

They have the option to...

a) prepare for Ben’s retirement, by paying off his salary now.

b) extend their core group of players.

c) go for broke and “Win now!!!” by splurging on free agents.

SUMMATION:
I’m betting on a little bit from A and a little bit from B (a la Grampa Simpson).

What they will probably do:

1. Actually pay Bud Dupree the $10 million option like we were afraid of

2. Don't draft a pass rusher above like the 5th round for the next few years

3. "But we don't have anyone!"

4. Overpay Dupree on a multi-year contract

5. He immediately gets hurt and is never the same, which is really too bad because he was never very good to begin with

6."But who would YOU have taken???"

6a. "You can't say anyone below round 1 - everybody passed on them at least once!"

6b. "See! By this flawless logic, it is impossible to ever find a player at any position we want without a top-10 pick! Signing Dupree was the only option! See how I argue!"

7. Also no comp pick for Bell

[Dwinsgames]

Exactly

They have the option to...

a) prepare for Ben’s retirement, by paying off his salary now.

b) extend their core group of players.

c) go for broke and “Win now!!!” by splurging on free agents.

SUMMATION:
I’m betting on a little bit from A and a little bit from B (a la Grampa Simpson).


Hargrave - shouldn't break the bank he hasn't been stellar and his pos is not a " back up the brinks truck " kind of pos unless you are Uber elite ...

Pouncey - Honestly not sure he wants to play anywhere else , so as long as your offer is not a slap in the face he probably takes it ..

Gilbert - Now may be the best time to lock him down a season where he has shown to not be the picture of health and coming off a league suspension

Haden - I believe will stay as long as the team extends an offer ( like Pouncey just do not insult him ) he has been elsewhere he knows life outside of Pittsburgh

Dupree - I have no " feel" for this one ..... hard to say he has been lackluster his entire stay here save the past few weeks .....

Davis - I could be wrong but at this point , I do not believe he has done enough to make a strong market for himself , that could change ....

Ben - I think its all on him , I think he is a Steeler for life ( wifes family ) would never forgive him if he left the Burgh , and I do not think Ben wants to play anywhere else

Foster isn't going ANYWHERE he has been a staple since entering the lineup as a starter

[polamalubeast]

I do not know what will be Roethlisberger's next contract if he stays with us, that I expect

It could be 30 million a year like Matt Ryan, Rodgers have had and several QB's going to have a contract of over 30 million in the next few years like Wilson, Goff and Wentz but at the same time, Brees has only had 25 million a year on a 2 years contract on the open market, which was less than Kirk Cousins ... Of course he wanted to stay with the saints and maybe he took a little a paycut or it was because of his age, but Roethlisberger could have a smaller contract also because of his age .... we'll see.

[polamalubeast]

1061649850482286592

[Dwinsgames]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dru-6h5XQAE4S5X.jpg:large

[polamalubeast]

100% agree with Rex!

1061644265804193801

[polamalubeast]

1061656752733728768

[stillers4me]

1061674838354358272

[Fire Goodell]

1061656752733728768

How many of these due to coming back from injuries though?

[ALLD]

Bell will be broke and out of the NFL in less than 3 years.

[Dwinsgames]

Bell will be broke and out of the NFL in less than 3 years.

he has already thrown more money away than probably all of us board members ( in our lifetimes combined ) this year alone

[polamalubeast]

301812139256061952

[Drazo85]

301812139256061952Aaand we have a winner ladies and gentlemen!

Послато са Mi A1 уз помоћ Тапатока

[smokin3000gt]

301812139256061952

I like to think that someone is firing all of these tweets back at LB

[Shoes]

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Article/LeVeon-Bell-ignoring-solution-to-his-own-cause-with-Pittsburgh-Steelers-124582109/

[polamalubeast]

453595433831776256

- - - Updated - - -

200615213194682368

[Lady Steel]

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Article/LeVeon-Bell-ignoring-solution-to-his-own-cause-with-Pittsburgh-Steelers-124582109/

Great article by Jim Wexell. Thanks for posting it, Mr. Shoes. :)

All Bell needs to do is report by 4:00 PM Eastern on Tuesday. Do it, LeVeon!

[GoSlash27]

All Bell needs to do is report by 4:00 PM Eastern on Tuesday. Do it, LeVeon!

You know... or not. Whichever. :ranger:
Either way, the train rolls on.

[EzraTank]

WELL 2018 would be his best season to date if they gave Conner a #26 jersey because he's blowing up.

I'll laugh if we win the SB this year without him, that'll be a sweet piece of bling he'll never be getting,, and you can't put a price tag on a championshipNo thanks. Keep him far away from anything #26 related. Conner is making #30 work just fine.

[HollywoodSteel]

Wasn’t the whole point of him possibly coming back to accrue a season?

Wasn’t the whole point of accruing a season so that the Steelers could not tag him again at the same price?

Is that because HE NEVER SIGNED A SECOND TENDER so NEXT YEAR would be his second franchise tag, rather than his third?

- - - Updated - - -

By my count Bell has played exactly one season under a franchise tag. Not two.

[teegre]

What they will probably do:

1. Actually pay Bud Dupree the $10 million option like we were afraid of

2. Don't draft a pass rusher above like the 5th round for the next few years

3. "But we don't have anyone!"

4. Overpay Dupree on a multi-year contract

5. He immediately gets hurt and is never the same, which is really too bad because he was never very good to begin with

6."But who would YOU have taken???"

6a. "You can't say anyone below round 1 - everybody passed on them at least once!"

6b. "See! By this flawless logic, it is impossible to ever find a player at any position we want without a top-10 pick! Signing Dupree was the only option! See how I argue!"

7. Also no comp pick for Bell

Okay :huh: Re-signing your own players doesn’t affect the comp picks. They could sign Dupree to a five year/ $70 million contract... and as long as they don’t sign any outside free agents, they’d still get a R3 for Bell.

[HollywoodSteel]

In opinion, if the Steelers can re tag him for 14 mil. They should do it. Then they make nice with Bell and sign him to a decent long term deal that is really good but not quite Gurley money, which Bell will take because he can’t negotiate with anyone else. Then the Steelers trade Bell and his reasonable long term deal to the Raiders for one of their first round picks. :)

[AtlantaDan]

Wasn’t the whole point of him possibly coming back to accrue a season?

Wasn’t the whole point of accruing a season so that the Steelers could not tag him again at the same price?

Is that because HE NEVER SIGNED A SECOND TENDER so NEXT YEAR would be his second franchise tag, rather than his third?

- - - Updated - - -

By my count Bell has played exactly one season under a franchise tag. Not two.

Who knew this thread would become a labor law forum? :chuckle:

CBA says it is the number of times you are designated to be a franchise player, not the number of times you accept the tender pursuant to that designation and play under the tag, that controls the amount of the contract tender.

Steelers are not going to franchise tag Bell again since they want him out after this season and do not want to play chicken and tie up big $$ under their cap by applying the franchise tag again. But this isn't like trying to divine the meaning of the U.S. Constitution - the management and NFLPA reps who drafted this clause of the CBA are around to testify if the NFL and the Steelers want to fight it, which they do not.

Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one year NFL Player Contract for the greater of: (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average; (B) 120% of the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year; or (C) 144% of his Prior Year Salary. (By way of example, a kicker desig-nated as a Franchise Player for the third time in the 2014 League Year would have a Required Tender equal to the greater of: (i) the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for quarterbacks; (ii)120% ofthe average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for kickers; or (iii) 144% of the player’s own 2013 Salary.) If the Club designates the player as a Franchise Player for the third time, the designating Club shall be the only Club with which the player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract. In lieu of designating such a player as a Franchise Player for the third time, any Club may designate such player as a Transition Player.

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.n...u%201-5-15.pdf (https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Active%20Players/2011%20CBA%20Updated%20with%20Side%20Letters%20thr u%201-5-15.pdf)

Bell already has been designated twice in 2017 and 2018.

By virtue of his franchise-tag designation, Bell will make $14.5 million this season, assuming he ever signs the tender.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/03/leveon-bell-has-yet-to-report-as-steelers-running-back-continues-holdout-on-labor-day/?utm_term=.bd5833c68aa2


(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/03/leveon-bell-has-yet-to-report-as-steelers-running-back-continues-holdout-on-labor-day/?utm_term=.bd5833c68aa2)

[steelreserve]

Okay :huh: Re-signing your own players doesn’t affect the comp picks. They could sign Dupree to a five year/ $70 million contract... and as long as they don’t sign any outside free agents, they’d still get a R3 for Bell.

Yeah, they'll have so much cap space that they'll feel fine wasting $10M on Dupree ... then they'll actually have enough cap space after that to sign free agents that they'll get nothing for Bell.

Simply the presence of so much extra space is likely to cause them to make a stupid move with Dupree, because that's just the kind of shit that happens with players like this.

[teegre]

Yeah, they'll have so much cap space that they'll feel fine wasting $10M on Dupree ... then they'll actually have enough cap space after that to sign free agents that they'll get nothing for Bell.

Simply the presence of so much extra space is likely to cause them to make a stupid move with Dupree, because that's just the kind of shit that happens with players like this.

Okay... and again, if they give Dupree $10 million, that has zero bearing on the comp pick.

They “could” sign $20 million in free agents, but when was the last time that the Steelers did that? Really. I’ll answer: never. Conversely, when they have cap space, they tend to extend existing players.

Ergo, expect VW, Conner, Dupree, Hilton, Pouncey, and Haden to see the majority of that money... and... we will then get a R3 comp pick for Bell.

[Mojouw]

Well, since they draft such crappy players like Dupree and Burns, who cares if we get and extra pick?

Also in case everyone hasn’t noticed it is pretty easy to have cap space this day and age. Teams routinely have 10-30 million in space each offseason.

[Dwinsgames]

Who knew this thread would become a labor law forum? :chuckle:

CBA says it is the number of times you are designated to be a franchise player, not the number of times you accept the tender pursuant to that designation and play under the tag, that controls the amount of the contract tender.

Steelers are not going to franchise tag Bell again since they want him out after this season and do not want to play chicken and tie up big $$ under their cap by applying the franchise tag again. But this isn't like trying to divine the meaning of the U.S. Constitution - the management and NFLPA reps who drafted this clause of the CBA are around to testify if the NFL and the Steelers want to fight it, which they do not.

Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one year NFL Player Contract for the greater of: (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average; (B) 120% of the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year; or (C) 144% of his Prior Year Salary. (By way of example, a kicker desig-nated as a Franchise Player for the third time in the 2014 League Year would have a Required Tender equal to the greater of: (i) the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for quarterbacks; (ii)120% ofthe average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for kickers; or (iii) 144% of the player’s own 2013 Salary.) If the Club designates the player as a Franchise Player for the third time, the designating Club shall be the only Club with which the player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract. In lieu of designating such a player as a Franchise Player for the third time, any Club may designate such player as a Transition Player.

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.n...u%201-5-15.pdf (https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Active%20Players/2011%20CBA%20Updated%20with%20Side%20Letters%20thr u%201-5-15.pdf)

Bell already has been designated twice in 2017 and 2018.

By virtue of his franchise-tag designation, Bell will make $14.5 million this season, assuming he ever signs the tender.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/03/leveon-bell-has-yet-to-report-as-steelers-running-back-continues-holdout-on-labor-day/?utm_term=.bd5833c68aa2


(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/03/leveon-bell-has-yet-to-report-as-steelers-running-back-continues-holdout-on-labor-day/?utm_term=.bd5833c68aa2)

I believe you have to sign it for it to be counted .....

its like having the winning numbers on a lotto card you filled out but you never handed it to the cashier to purchase the ticket

[HollywoodSteel]

Who knew this thread would become a labor law forum? :chuckle:

CBA says it is the number of times you are designated to be a franchise player, not the number of times you accept the tender pursuant to that designation and play under the tag, that controls the amount of the contract tender.

Steelers are not going to franchise tag Bell again since they want him out after this season and do not want to play chicken and tie up big $$ under their cap by applying the franchise tag again. But this isn't like trying to divine the meaning of the U.S. Constitution - the management and NFLPA reps who drafted this clause of the CBA are around to testify if the NFL and the Steelers want to fight it, which they do not.

Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one year NFL Player Contract for the greater of: (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average; (B) 120% of the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year; or (C) 144% of his Prior Year Salary. (By way of example, a kicker desig-nated as a Franchise Player for the third time in the 2014 League Year would have a Required Tender equal to the greater of: (i) the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for quarterbacks; (ii)120% ofthe average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for kickers; or (iii) 144% of the player’s own 2013 Salary.) If the Club designates the player as a Franchise Player for the third time, the designating Club shall be the only Club with which the player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract. In lieu of designating such a player as a Franchise Player for the third time, any Club may designate such player as a Transition Player.

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.n...u%201-5-15.pdf (https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Active%20Players/2011%20CBA%20Updated%20with%20Side%20Letters%20thr u%201-5-15.pdf)

Bell already has been designated twice in 2017 and 2018.

By virtue of his franchise-tag designation, Bell will make $14.5 million this season, assuming he ever signs the tender.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/03/leveon-bell-has-yet-to-report-as-steelers-running-back-continues-holdout-on-labor-day/?utm_term=.bd5833c68aa2


(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/03/leveon-bell-has-yet-to-report-as-steelers-running-back-continues-holdout-on-labor-day/?utm_term=.bd5833c68aa2)

I don’t really doubt you on this.

But if this is true, why would there ever have been any question that he would not report this year. As soon as he decided to sit out the first few weeks because he valued his safety over the $900,000 or so he was giving up on any given week, why in the hell would that change on some magical deadline that didn’t really exist.

If anything, he is MORE right to sit out the rest of the season with every week that passes. If he has no financial incentive to accrue a season then why the hell would he be more likely to report now than he was on ANY previous week?

Earlier in the season, why was EVERYONE talking about how important it was for him to accrue the season when it was virtually meaningless?

Why has the narrative somehow changed than the terms we were told about at the beginning of his hold out?

If safety is worth more than $900,000 a week than how would ANYONE think that’s LESS true now than it was on week 1 through 10?

There is no internal logic to that. Of course Bell will sit out the rest of the season at this point. His safety from injury becomes MORE valuable with every week closer to free agency, not less.

[GoSlash27]

But if this is true, why would there ever have been any question that he would not report this year. As soon as he decided to sit out the first few weeks because he valued his safety over the $900,000 or so he was giving up on any given week, why in the hell would that change on some magical deadline that didn’t really exist.

IIRC, nobody realized that the franchise tag counts for this season even though L Bell never signed it until some sports reporter pointed that fact out last week. Maybe the Steelers FO knew it, maybe not. Maybe Bell knew it, maybe not. Neither side talked about it.
So that fact changes the whole narrative now that the reporters know it.
Steelers FO wrote him off early in the season, which suggests that they knew all along. Bell showing up when he did may be just him playing games hoping that the Steelers FO didn't know about the loophole, or maybe he didn't know himself until the story broke. Possibly neither side knew.

[AtlantaDan]

I don’t really doubt you on this.

But if this is true, why would there ever have been any question that he would not report this year. As soon as he decided to sit out the first few weeks because he valued his safety over the $900,000 or so he was giving up on any given week, why in the hell would that change on some magical deadline that didn’t really exist.

If anything, he is MORE right to sit out the rest of the season with every week that passes. If he has no financial incentive to accrue a season then why the hell would he be more likely to report now than he was on ANY previous week?

Earlier in the season, why was EVERYONE talking about how important it was for him to accrue the season when it was virtually meaningless?

Why has the narrative somehow changed than the terms we were told about at the beginning of his hold out?

If safety is worth more than $900,000 a week than how would ANYONE think that’s LESS true now than it was on week 1 through 10?

There is no internal logic to that. Of course Bell will sit out the rest of the season at this point. His safety from injury becomes MORE valuable with every week closer to free agency, not less.

Because it is assumed players are not into deferred gratification and would never sit out an entire season in a contract dispute. Last, and probably only, Steeler to do it was Mike Merriweather in 1988

[AtlantaDan]

Possibly neither side knew.

Everyone knew who gets paid to know - Adam Schefter tweeted this Thursday night

1060685220561723392

It is first year contract law principles and AJRII took that course, as did the Steelers outside counsel

It was not well reported until recently because sportswriters are not known to specialize in labor law

The sports media guy who got on to it was Mike Florio at PFT, who made his living as a labor lawyer before he hit the jackpot with PFT

[HollywoodSteel]

IIRC, nobody realized that the franchise tag counts for this season even though L Bell never signed it until some sports reporter pointed that fact out last week. Maybe the Steelers FO knew it, maybe not. Maybe Bell knew it, maybe not. Neither side talked about it.
So that fact changes the whole narrative now that the reporters know it.

If it’s true and neither side knew until now, people on both sides should be immediately fired.

ESPECIALLY Bell’s agent, because if this is true, Bell had WAY more leverage back when they were negotiating. Bell’s agent could have said back then that Bell would never play for the Steelers this year without a long term deal that he found acceptable.

There should have been NO question Bell would either get his deal or preserve his body until free agency. If Bell was willing to forego $14,000,000 for a guaranteed contract of way more in 2019, he could have said so and NOT BEEN BLUFFING because it’s obviously true. Bell could have changed the whole narrative back then and would have either gotten the deal he wanted, or been able to rightly claim that the Steelers made their choice back then to not have him for 2018.

Some people would have still hated Bell for making that ultimatum, but he’d have at least been honest and respected for not bluffing:

The Steelers just happened to get really lucky that Conner turned out to be a stud. But if they did their dealmaking back then without knowing the actual rules and that Bell had no incentive to accrue a season, it doesn’t matter that it turned out for the best, someone still failed to do his job of knowing all the variables.

[HollywoodSteel]

Because it is assumed players are not into deferred gratification and would never sit out an entire season in a contract dispute. Last, and probably only, Steeler to do it was Mike Merriweather in 1988


But Bell didn’t need to assume anything false. He knows what he values most, and could have used it WAY to his advantage.

If Bell’s agent knew that Bell had this card to play, why NOT scream it out to every sportswriter back then?

There was NO downside for Bell’s team not to make this widely known. They should have said that the Steelers were choosing to take that risk by not making a deal with Bell.

Then if Bell DID decide to show up anyway for the money, then fine. But it would have served him far better to announce that he probably wouldn’t.

[GoSlash27]

If it’s true and neither side knew until now, people on both sides should be immediately fired.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that neither side knew. *Maybe* both sides knew. *Maybe* only one side knew. *Maybe* neither side knew. The important thing is that neither side said it, so the media didn't know and we didn't either. Thus, this 'deadline' seemed much more important to us than it actually was.

[HollywoodSteel]

Everyone knew who gets paid to know - Adam Schefter tweeted this Thursday night

1060685220561723392

It is first year contract law principles and AJRII took that course, as did the Steelers outside counsel

It was not well reported until recently because sportswriters are not known to specialize in labor law

The sports media guy who got on to it was Mike Florio at PFT, who made his living as a labor lawyer before he hit the jackpot with PFT

And if this is the clear and ONLY POSSIBLE interpretation of the CBA, then labor law doesn’t play into it at all. There is no LAW to be referenced. It is a private contract between the NFLPA and the owners. There is no U.S. state or federal law involved. Except the law that says contracts between private actors are legally binding. But it takes no expert in labor law to understand that.

Labor law only comes into play if the wording of the CBA ITSELF violates some labor law. Then the State can step in and override the CBA as written. Otherwise it’s just a matter of reading a contract and following its terms.

- - - Updated - - -


To be clear, I'm not suggesting that neither side knew. *Maybe* both sides knew. *Maybe* only one side knew. *Maybe* neither side knew. The important thing is that neither side said it, so the media didn't know and we didn't either. Thus, this 'deadline' seemed much more important to us than it actually was.

Okay, then Bell’s agent should be fired whether he knew or not.

If he didn’t know, he should obviously be fired.

If he knew and didn’t use it to his advantage by SCREAMING IT LOUD AND CLEAR to the press, then he should be fired even harder. :)

[AtlantaDan]

But Bell didn’t need to assume anything false. He knows what he values most, and could have used it WAY to his advantage.

If Bell’s agent knew that Bell had this card to play, why NOT scream it out to every sportswriter back then?

There was NO downside for Bell’s team not to make this widely known. They should have said that the Steelers were choosing to take that risk by not making a deal with Bell.

Then if Bell DID decide to show up anyway for the money, then fine. But it would have served him far better to announce that he probably wouldn’t.

Adam Schefter said the agent went on ESPN NFL Live and said it last summer - that is a pretty loud scream

The Steelers properly assumed Bell would not sit out an entire season - no player hit under the franchise tag has ever done it

They wanted one more year out of him and thought they would get it

[Mojouw]

Umm Bell and his camp have been saying some version of this for over a year. Just because sports “pundits” were too dumb to understand or talk about it doesn’t mean it’s not new or unexpected.

[GoSlash27]

Okay, then Bell’s agent should be fired whether he knew or not.
I don't think you'll find anyone around here who will dispute that. ;)

[HollywoodSteel]

Adam Schefter said the agent went on ESPN NFL Live and said it last summer - that is a pretty loud scream

The Steelers properly assumed Bell would not sit out an entire season - no player hit under the franchise tag has ever done it

They wanted one more year out of him and thought they would get it

It just seems very strange that there was ever a false narrative. If the agent knew and announced that this was Bell’s negotiating position, it should have been clear to everyone that accruing a season meant NOTHING.

No one in the press needs to understand labor law one bit to read a rule book, which is all the CBA is.

It’s fine if everyone had known the rules and just assumed Bell would show up because he wanted the money. But it makes no sense that everyone was claiming that THIS deadline meant anything other than once it passes, Bell can’t play in 2018.

But why was everyone saying, up until recently, that the Steelers could tag Bell again at $14 mil if he doesn’t accrue this season?

Nobody read the rule book until now? Bell’s agent was screaming it and nobody believed him?

This makes absolutely no sense UNLESS it is NOT clear that the CBA means what you claim it means. This only makes sense if your claim (and Florio’s) is a NOVEL, but perhaps plausible INTERPRETATION of the CBA.

If it was simply an uncontroversial and obvious rule in the rule book, it seems crazy that no one in the press read the rule book until now.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't think you'll find anyone around here who will dispute that. ;)

I knew someone was gonna say that. :)

I just meant... here’s a NEW reason Bell’s agent should be fired. :)

[AtlantaDan]

It just seems very strange that there was ever a false narrative. If the agent knew and announced that this was Bell’s negotiating position, it should have been clear to everyone that accruing a season meant NOTHING.

No one in the press needs to understand labor law one bit to read a rule book, which is all the CBA is.

It’s fine if everyone had known the rules and just assumed Bell would show up because he wanted the money. But it makes no sense that everyone was claiming that THIS deadline meant anything other than once it passes, Bell can’t play in 2018.

But why was everyone saying, up until recently, that the Steelers could tag Bell again at $14 mil if he doesn’t accrue this season?

Who is “everyone”? :noidea:

IMO the focus was on when Bell would report this season and that the possibility of the Steelers applying the franchise tag on Bell for a third year was never taken seriously.

Taking the infotainment NFL coverage seriously burns us all at some point
:drink:

[HollywoodSteel]

Umm Bell and his camp have been saying some version of this for over a year. Just because sports “pundits” were too dumb to understand or talk about it doesn’t mean it’s not new or unexpected.

It still seems like a REALLY weird thing for the pundits to have any reason to get wrong if the rule is clear and universally accepted. It only makes sense if this is a novel interpretation by Bell’s camp.

And if Bell’s camp has been making this claim since day 1, why ever misplay your hand by saying Bell would play in 2018 without a long term deal?

This hold out was not a game of chicken. The game of chicken should have been played when negotiations were possible. If Bell’s team had the rulebook on their side, they NEVER should have claimed that Bell would play in 2018 without a deal that he accepted.

Bell could then always change his mind and show up for the money.

Anyway, the whole thing seems like it was mishandled by Bell’s team every step of the way.

[GoSlash27]

It just seems very strange that there was ever a false narrative. If the agent knew and announced that this was Bell’s negotiating position, it should have been clear to everyone that accruing a season meant NOTHING.

No one in the press needs to understand labor law one bit to read a rule book, which is all the CBA is.

Hollywood,
Okay, but hear me out... #1 assume that the press is lazy and particularly stupid. They won't bother to learn unless somebody actually tells them. Not a far stretch.
#2 assume that neither side knows if the other side knows or not. It's the classic "prisoners dilemma" game theory position. You could maximize your personal position by blabbing, but you see the risk of the other side's awareness as a net negative, so you keep the info to yourself. The advantage of each side is maximized (by their own perception) if they know themselves, but the other side doesn't.

End result: both sides know but neither side tells, resulting in a net loss for both sides.

A lawyer will never give his opponent a freebie, so that's how this sort of thing happens. The press wasn't aware until recently, so we weren't aware either. *Maybe* one or both sides weren't aware... but now all of us are. So this 'deadline' has suddenly become unimportant.

[HollywoodSteel]

Who is “everyone”? :noidea:

IMO the focus was on when Bell would report this season and that the possibility of the Steelers applying the franchise tag on Bell for a third year was never taken seriously.

Taking the infotainment NFL coverage seriously burns us all at some point
:drink:

I guess so.

But by everyone, I guess I mean everyone on this site. And obviously the people on this site only have media sources to rely on for information.

It seemed like the only reason why ANYONE would assume Bell might show up AT ALL (once he made it clear that on any given week his safety was worth more than $900,000) was because he had some deterrent to missing the last few weeks of the season that didn’t exist in the first few weeks of the season.

If not, OF COURSE he’ll miss the whole season. He has already established his risk/reward calculus. There’s no reason for that to suddenly change now, at this arbitrary time, unless this time IS NOT arbitrary.

[HollywoodSteel]

Hollywood,
Okay, but hear me out... #1 assume that the press is lazy and particularly stupid. They won't bother to learn unless somebody actually tells them. Not a far stretch.
#2 assume that neither side knows if the other side knows or not. It's the classic "prisoners dilemma" game theory position. You could maximize your personal position by blabbing, but you see the risk of the other side's awareness as a net negative, so you keep the info to yourself. The advantage of each side is maximized (by their own perception) if they know themselves, but the other side doesn't.

End result: both sides know but neither side tells, resulting in a net loss for both sides.

A lawyer will never give his opponent a freebie, so that's how this sort of thing happens. The press wasn't aware until recently, so we weren't aware either. *Maybe* one or both sides weren't aware... but now all of us are. So this 'deadline' has suddenly become unimportant.

I understand what you are saying in theory.

From the Steelers side, perhaps The strategy of knowing and not saying anything makes sense.

But in this particular case, I see no advantage gained by Bell’s side by not using the information as LEVERAGE back when the negotiations were happening.

If I’m missing a reason for keeping this info under their hats, then please tell me.

It’s information that HELPS Bell if the other side realizes that Bell has the extra card to play. If the Steelers falsely assume they have the leverage of retaggging Bell at 14 mil if Bell sits out the season, that only hurts Bell’s negotiationing position.

They wanted the best long term deal out of the Steelers. Perhaps the Steelers would have offered more at the time if they didn’t falsely assume they had Bell over this barrel; that he HAD to report by a certain date or risk getting tagged again at the same amount.

You see what I’m saying. Bell’s side had a negotiating card to play that they stupidly never played... and if they did play it, they should have informed the press that they played it, so that Bell wouldn’t look like a liar and a fool for not showing up.

[AtlantaDan]

The Steelers properly assumed Bell would not sit out an entire season - no player hit under the franchise tag has ever done it

I was wrong on this. From Albert Breer in his MMQB column this morning

We’re less than 48 hours from the deadline for Le’Veon Bell to report to the Steelers, and we’re going to look how we got to this point—where a star could sit out an entire season on the franchise tag for the first time since Sean Gilbert did it 21 years ago.

Breer then observes

But it’s tough to make money at running back, and all you have do is look at the guy running the ball right now for Pittsburgh to figure out why. James Conner was a fourth-round pick in a draft in which Kansas City’s Kareem Hunt and New Orleans’ Alvin Kamara went in the third round.

It’s not that Bell isn’t a great player. He most certainly is one. It’s that it’s too easy to find someone else to do his job.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/12/week-10-mmqb-andrew-luck-colts-titans-patriots-rams-wildfires-philip-rivers-chargers-leveon-bell

[cold-hard-steel]

I don't believe i'm even talking about Bell because i have basically written him off. But all the crap i have read about his showing up.....no he is not showing up,he has done the exact opposite of whatever was being reported.So all that being said the latest is he is not showing up,which tells me he will in fact show up.........if he sticks with what is being reported on out there in NFL circles. Frankly i'm with Tomlin on this one......i'm only concerned about those men that are with the team now.

[polamalubeast]

1062012593483759616

[GoSlash27]

I see no advantage gained by Bell’s side by not using the information as LEVERAGE back when the negotiations were happening.

If I’m missing a reason for keeping this info under their hats, then please tell me.

AD,
I can only speculate on that one. Perhaps they were hoping for the Steelers to tank before announcing it. Perhaps Bakari knew and witheld the fact from Bell in order to force a 3rd tag. Perhaps Bakari didn't know or wasn't certain. Perhaps Bakari and/ or Bell are just dipshits. :noidea:

But yeah, on their side there was no reason to keep that loophole to themselves. Therefore they either didn't know about it or mistakenly thought it was in their best interest to not divulge it. Either way, it's like you said; Bakari deserves to be fired.

[AtlantaDan]

AD,
I can only speculate on that one. Perhaps they were hoping for the Steelers to tank before announcing it. Perhaps Bakari knew and witheld the fact from Bell in order to force a 3rd tag. Perhaps Bakari didn't know or wasn't certain. Perhaps Bakari and/ or Bell are just dipshits. :noidea:

But yeah, on their side there was no reason to keep that loophole to themselves. Therefore they either didn't know about it or mistakenly thought it was in their best interest to not divulge it. Either way, it's like you said; Bakari deserves to be fired.

Bakari did not keep it to himself

Bakari went on ESPN Live this past July 17. When asked why this probably would be Bell's last season with the Steelers, starting around the 20:30 mark of the linked audio, Bakari said the value of the franchise tender when a player is franchise tagged for the third time is based upon salaries for the top 5 highest paid quarterbacks

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/espn/nfl-live/e/55370047

No surprise Ian Rapoport has contributed to the confusion on this point by tweeting this clearly false statement last week
1060570743065468928

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Anybody see Coach Cowher on the pregame yesterday? Bill said :

" The Steelers will use the 2 week roster exemption or the transition tag on LeVeon Bell. One thing Mr. Rooney always used to say was that you don't reward players for not showing up."

So they have probably told Bell's agent to get ready for roster exemption, to which he is likely to stand firm based upon his ego and not show up this week. Then, forget the franchise tag because its too expensive, the Steelers will likely use the transition tag so they can keep lines of communication open and not just let Bell walk freely to free agency, but instead have the right to match any offer he receives.

[j-d-s]

Even if we could tag Bell in 2019 for second-year tag money again, I wouldn't do it. While I would love to rub it in just out of spite against Bell, we have Conner now and don't need Bell anymore. We can spend those $14 million on players we really need, players that will help us win a Lombardi. Ben probably is retired in less than 5 years, so our window to win it all is closing fast. And I am certain that with $14 million in a defensive player that puts us in a way better position than spend it on Bell.

And when all said and done, it all comes down to whether you win the Super Bowl.

I don't see us using any kind of tag on Bell, because the transition tag also means no comp pick. If we were to use a tag it would be the non-exclusive franchise tag, but then the danger is that Bell might sign it, which would cost us a fortune better spent on other players. So I think at this point it's better if we let him go.

[steel striker]

I can't believe I'm going to say this but, I'm glad Bell is going to sit out this season. The season the Conner has and, yes James has done everything anyone could ask & more. I know the Bell thing was all about the money but, buyer beware you have to wonder about Bell's desire to play football. I know he does deserve a nice contract because, he is real good football play one of the best all round backs. I say the heck with him.

[EzraTank]

Even if we could tag Bell in 2019 for second-year tag money again, I wouldn't do it. While I would love to rub it in just out of spite against Bell, we have Conner now and don't need Bell anymore. We can spend those $14 million on players we really need, players that will help us win a Lombardi. Ben probably is retired in less than 5 years, so our window to win it all is closing fast. And I am certain that with $14 million in a defensive player that puts us in a way better position than spend it on Bell.

And when all said and done, it all comes down to whether you win the Super Bowl.

I don't see us using any kind of tag on Bell, because the transition tag also means no comp pick. If we were to use a tag it would be the non-exclusive franchise tag, but then the danger is that Bell might sign it, which would cost us a fortune better spent on other players. So I think at this point it's better if we let him go.

Bell is done. He will be a free agent but the Steelers will put the transition tag on him so they can match (which they won't). They will get a pick for him leaving.

$14 million buys you two VERY good defensive guys and a solid backup RB (think older guy like Frank Gore) to sit behind and spell Connor.

[AtlantaDan]

Bell is done. He will be a free agent but the Steelers will put the transition tag on him so they can match (which they won't). They will get a pick for him leaving.

Ray Fittipaldo of the P-G sums up his view of the Bell end game

The franchise tag for a third year in a row would be the third-year tag, which is the QB money tag. So obviously, the Steelers don't value him at $25 million for one season. They won't use that, but they could use the transition tag if they're so inclined. I doubt it, but it would make much more sense than the third-year franchise tag....

The relationship appears to be beyond repair. Plus, if some team offers him $70 million guaranteed over four years the Steelers wouldn't match it and wouldn't get a compensatory pick.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/11/12/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-11-12-18/stories/201811120078

[Mojouw]

$14 million does not get you 2 very good defenders and a back-up RB.

$14 million gets you Morris Claiborne, Daquan Jones, and Doug Martin.

All of those can help a team, but they are not changing your outlook.

$14 million is not a ton of cap space when you are talking about bringing in a FA that can "change" the outlook of a unit on a football team. In today's market where multiple teams have tens of millions in cap space every year, a CB or pass rusher that would really change the Steelers defense is going to cost that $14 million plus another 1-4 million in annual salary PLUS a big fat old signing bonus.

That would make this new player the highest paid member of the defense. Typically the Steelers don't do that and make the "leaders" of their defense paid less than an outsider. So Heyward, Tuitt, and Haden set the salary scale on the Steelers defense. Looking at the list of scheduled FA's, I see ONE guy that the Steelers may be willing to wreck that structure for: Jadeveon Clowney. In equaling their 10-12 million value, MAYBE Dee Ford.

There is no impact starter coming in FA for the defense. The best use of that cap space is to either extend existing guys or make a trade for a guy one year away from FA that the present team doesn't think they can resign. Then throw that cap space at them a year early. Say make the Jags a monster offer for a disgruntled Jalen Ramsey. Or maybe Miami is worried that they won't be able to resign Xavien Howard.

This is the list of 2020 FA's -- https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2020/all/defense/ -- some interesting names. Target a year early, throw a 3rd rounder+ at their current team and hope this cap money enables you to poach a guy that another team is worried about resigning.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Ray Fittipaldo of the P-G sums up his view of the Bell end game

The franchise tag for a third year in a row would be the third-year tag, which is the QB money tag. So obviously, the Steelers don't value him at $25 million for one season. They won't use that, but they could use the transition tag if they're so inclined. I doubt it, but it would make much more sense than the third-year franchise tag....

The relationship appears to be beyond repair. Plus, if some team offers him $70 million guaranteed over four years the Steelers wouldn't match it and wouldn't get a compensatory pick.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/11/12/Ray-Fittipaldo-s-Steelers-chat-11-12-18/stories/201811120078




But if they tag him with the non-exclusive franchise tag, doesn't any team that signs Bell have to give up a 1st round pick for him if the Steelers don't match?

Either way, I don't expect to see him signed by Tuesday, so its all offseason speculation in reality.

[steelreserve]

$14 million does not get you 2 very good defenders and a back-up RB.

$14 million gets you Morris Claiborne, Daquan Jones, and Doug Martin.

All of those can help a team, but they are not changing your outlook.

$14 million is not a ton of cap space when you are talking about bringing in a FA that can "change" the outlook of a unit on a football team. In today's market where multiple teams have tens of millions in cap space every year, a CB or pass rusher that would really change the Steelers defense is going to cost that $14 million plus another 1-4 million in annual salary PLUS a big fat old signing bonus.

That would make this new player the highest paid member of the defense. Typically the Steelers don't do that and make the "leaders" of their defense paid less than an outsider. So Heyward, Tuitt, and Haden set the salary scale on the Steelers defense. Looking at the list of scheduled FA's, I see ONE guy that the Steelers may be willing to wreck that structure for: Jadeveon Clowney. In equaling their 10-12 million value, MAYBE Dee Ford.

There is no impact starter coming in FA for the defense. The best use of that cap space is to either extend existing guys or make a trade for a guy one year away from FA that the present team doesn't think they can resign. Then throw that cap space at them a year early. Say make the Jags a monster offer for a disgruntled Jalen Ramsey. Or maybe Miami is worried that they won't be able to resign Xavien Howard.

This is the list of 2020 FA's -- https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2020/all/defense/ -- some interesting names. Target a year early, throw a 3rd rounder+ at their current team and hope this cap money enables you to poach a guy that another team is worried about resigning.


Sorry, but I think that's way exaggerated. $14 million will get you a VERY good player that absolutely changes the look of things. There are four outside linebackers and a handful of defensive ends that make more than that.

No, you are not going to get the best pass rusher in the game for that. You will merely get an excellent one. Very few players are out of your price range for $14 million. And between Bell / Shazier / Not Paying Bell Long-Term, we are going to have not $14 million, but $25 million to $40 million to play around with, depending on how you look at it. Seems to me like we'll be able to get a meaningful free agent or two if we want.

[Mojouw]

Sorry, but I think that's way exaggerated. $14 million will get you a VERY good player that absolutely changes the look of things. There are four outside linebackers and a handful of defensive ends that make more than that.

No, you are not going to get the best pass rusher in the game for that. You will merely get an excellent one. Very few players are out of your price range for $14 million. And between Bell / Shazier / Not Paying Bell Long-Term, we are going to have not $14 million, but $25 million to $40 million to play around with, depending on how you look at it. Seems to me like we'll be able to get a meaningful free agent or two if we want.

The salaries of all the past FA classes are out there. Plus a great amount of info on salary projections for future FAs. This all started because $14 million was supposed to buy two players that could impact on the defense and a back-up RB. My counter is that it doesn't. Not at the level of a team with the Steelers needs and aspirations requires.

Taking a look at CB, a potential massive area of need. The range for a top end FA CB is basically Joe Haden to Trumaine Johnson or $9 million to $16 million. The next tier down is 3-5 million per year and for return on that FA investment, Steelers might as well try and roll with Cam Sutton or Brian Allen. Next tier down is the Cockrell and Sensabaugh level.

Taking a look at edge rushers and it gets harder to tell, because edge rushers that matter don't make it to free agency. But guys like Alex Okafor and Sam Acho are getting 3.5-4.0 million per year. Last big impact edge rusher I find is Campbell and he got $15 million. We gave Alalu $3million per year. Most cost effective (non-rookie contract) edge rusher I can find on this list is Jerry Hughes at $9 million per year and he is how far down the list? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/edge/. Sacks cost money and they cost about double if anyone ever hits the FA market that can actually reliably get to the QB. Jabaal Sheard is getting paid about $8.5 million per year to be Bud Dupree and that is considered a FA pass rushing success/bargain https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/jabaal-sheard-7752/

My point is that $14 million doesn't go far if you want a player who can crack the top 14 guys in your defensive rotation. Particularly if you want that player to rush the passer or man cover a receiver. Now you want something outside of that, then $14 million can go pretty far. But depth is not this team's problem. It is an "impact" player or two to push the defense to the next level.

$14 million might get you ONE of those guys. Might - depending on the FA class that year. But it certainly won't come anywhere close to getting you two. Need to keep in mind that everything has a mark-up in FA. Sure the average NFL salary for an edge rusher with 6-10 sacks is X. But in FA, where 1-2 of those guys show up on the market and every team wants them, well then it is often 2X. Same with good DBs.

It is an important perspective to keep in mind. Because if we all just sit around and say "Well, gosh. $14 million is a ton of money and that should get the team pass rush and secondary help." And then it doesn't, there will be dozens of threads about how the team screwed it all up and lost their SB window.

Take a look at potential 2019 FAs and their anticipated costs. Tell me who is gonna be out there to provide a noticeable improvement to the pass rush or the coverages for less than $12 million per year?

[AtlantaDan]

But if they tag him with the non-exclusive franchise tag, doesn't any team that signs Bell have to give up a 1st round pick for him if the Steelers don't match?

Either way, I don't expect to see him signed by Tuesday, so its all offseason speculation in reality.

Yes - except it is two first round picks. Which is why no other team likely would do it.

And then the Steelers would be stuck with either tying up the $25 million QB salary calculation under the cap just as they have tied up $14 million this year while waiting for Bell to sign or risk having Bell sign the non-exclusive franchise tender for $25 million. The application of the QB salary calculation applies when someone gets the franchise tag for the third time regardless of whether that third time is exclusive or non-exclusive.

Section 2. Required Tender for Franchise Players:
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b) below, any Club that designates a Franchise Player shall on the date the designation is made notify the player and the NFLPA which one of the following two potential required tenders the Club has selected:
(i) Nonexclusive Franchise Tender....
(ii) Exclusive Franchise Tender....

(b) Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one-year NFL Player Contract for the greater of: (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average;

As you said, that is next year's problem.

He is gone.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yes - except it is two first round picks. Which is why no other team likely would do it.

And then the Steelers would be stuck with either tying up the $25 million QB salary calculation under the cap just as they have tied up $14 million this year while waiting for Bell to sign or risk having Bell sign the non-exclusive franchise tender for $25 million. The application of the QB salary calculation applies when someone gets the franchise tag for the third time regardless of whether that third time is exclusive or non-exclusive.

Section 2. Required Tender for Franchise Players:
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b) below, any Club that designates a Franchise Player shall on the date the designation is made notify the player and the NFLPA which one of the following two potential required tenders the Club has selected:
(i) Nonexclusive Franchise Tender....
(ii) Exclusive Franchise Tender....

(b) Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one-year NFL Player Contract for the greater of: (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average;

As you said, that is next year's problem.

He is gone.

OK, but isn't the Non-exclusive the average of the top 5 RB, not the top 5 QB, like the Exclusive tag would be?

If they tagged him non-exclusive and the cost was again say $15million and a team was willing to give up 2 first round picks to sign him(with an agreement the Steelers would say trade a 1st for a 4th with that team later), then the Steelers could conceivably tag Bell and get a first and a 4th for him. Or they could trade him if he signed the tag and somebody else would have him the one season with the baggage of trying to sign him long term.

I just think that he wont sign this season, but the Steelers can still leverage his value to maximize what comes back to them in the offseason. For now, I think the guy gave up $14 million on principle and ego that he may never recover. A whole box of duct tape cant fix that kind of stupid.

[86WARD]

Third tag is the Top-5 salaries (which happens to be QBs)...I think.

[GoSlash27]

Bakari did not keep it to himself

Bakari went on ESPN Live this past July 17. When asked why this probably would be Bell's last season with the Steelers, starting around the 20:30 mark of the linked audio, Bakari said the value of the franchise tender when a player is franchise tagged for the third time is based upon salaries for the top 5 highest paid quarterbacks

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/espn/nfl-live/e/55370047

No surprise Ian Rapoport has contributed to the confusion on this point by tweeting this clearly false statement last week
1060570743065468928

AD,
I'm not talking about the value of a 3rd franchise tag, I'm talking about the 2nd tag still counting even though he sat out and never signed it.
Best,
-Slashy

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

AD,
I'm not talking about the value of a 3rd franchise tag, I'm talking about the 2nd tag still counting even though he sat out and never signed it.
Best,
-Slashy

Yes, this is what I thought. I recall reading something where the value would actually be lower than the $14million because average RB salary was lower this season. Technically Bell hasn't signed the 2nd franchise tag.

[AtlantaDan]

AD,
I'm not talking about the value of a 3rd franchise tag, I'm talking about the 2nd tag still counting even though he sat out and never signed it.
Best,
-Slashy

Bakari’s statement speaks for itself, with no equivocation, when he said any third designation in 2019 would trigger the QB salary calculation with no caveat Bell would also need to sign the second tender.

If anyone in a position of authority (agent, owner, GM, player, NFLPA rep, league office rep) has taken the position that Bell first needs to sign and play under the second tender I would appreciate a link.

So far I have read nothing other than a tweet from the less than credible Ian Rapoport that Bakari did not know about or was holding back his knowledge of what seems to be a fairly straightforward application of what a designation (as opposed to acceptance of a tender) is under the CBA

Since the Steelers are done with Bell after this season, most likely at 4 pm tomorrow, I guess we will never know with certainty.

:drink:

[GoSlash27]

If anyone in a position of authority (agent, owner, GM, player, NFLPA rep, league office rep) has taken the position that Bell first needs to sign and play under the second tender I would appreciate a link.
Right... But the general assumption out there in the media and thus *the fan base* was that if he was re- signed, it would be on the same tender. Nobody in any position of authority corrected that until just last week. *This* is what Hollywood and I were discussing; Why didn't Bakari use that fact as leverage in the negotiations or announce it to the general public?

[steelreserve]

The salaries of all the past FA classes are out there. Plus a great amount of info on salary projections for future FAs. This all started because $14 million was supposed to buy two players that could impact on the defense and a back-up RB. My counter is that it doesn't. Not at the level of a team with the Steelers needs and aspirations requires.

Taking a look at CB, a potential massive area of need. The range for a top end FA CB is basically Joe Haden to Trumaine Johnson or $9 million to $16 million. The next tier down is 3-5 million per year and for return on that FA investment, Steelers might as well try and roll with Cam Sutton or Brian Allen. Next tier down is the Cockrell and Sensabaugh level.

Taking a look at edge rushers and it gets harder to tell, because edge rushers that matter don't make it to free agency. But guys like Alex Okafor and Sam Acho are getting 3.5-4.0 million per year. Last big impact edge rusher I find is Campbell and he got $15 million. We gave Alalu $3million per year. Most cost effective (non-rookie contract) edge rusher I can find on this list is Jerry Hughes at $9 million per year and he is how far down the list? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/edge/. Sacks cost money and they cost about double if anyone ever hits the FA market that can actually reliably get to the QB. Jabaal Sheard is getting paid about $8.5 million per year to be Bud Dupree and that is considered a FA pass rushing success/bargain https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/jabaal-sheard-7752/

My point is that $14 million doesn't go far if you want a player who can crack the top 14 guys in your defensive rotation. Particularly if you want that player to rush the passer or man cover a receiver. Now you want something outside of that, then $14 million can go pretty far. But depth is not this team's problem. It is an "impact" player or two to push the defense to the next level.

$14 million might get you ONE of those guys. Might - depending on the FA class that year. But it certainly won't come anywhere close to getting you two. Need to keep in mind that everything has a mark-up in FA. Sure the average NFL salary for an edge rusher with 6-10 sacks is X. But in FA, where 1-2 of those guys show up on the market and every team wants them, well then it is often 2X. Same with good DBs.

It is an important perspective to keep in mind. Because if we all just sit around and say "Well, gosh. $14 million is a ton of money and that should get the team pass rush and secondary help." And then it doesn't, there will be dozens of threads about how the team screwed it all up and lost their SB window.

Take a look at potential 2019 FAs and their anticipated costs. Tell me who is gonna be out there to provide a noticeable improvement to the pass rush or the coverages for less than $12 million per year?


I think what would help us are three things, in this order:

1. Fast ILB who can cover tight ends

2. A dominant defensive tackle to go along with Heyward and Tuitt; or that failing, at least a solid DT who does not have to come off the field on passing plays

3. Pass rusher, maybe

#1 and #2 don't have to be a $14 million guy, although if that's what it takes, that cost is actually not prohibitive this year. Especially in the case of #1, even a pretty-good player will help immensely. (Bostic is not too far off that skill level, for example, but has the completely wrong skill set for the job.)

I actually think that if we can fix #1 or #2, or better yet #1 AND #2, we don't even necessarily need an improved pass rusher. Our pass rush is actually not doing bad with Tuitt, Heyward and Watt plus whatever we can get from the others. VW and Bostic are decent, but both go in the same role and are poor at the other role that Shazier used to occupy. We don't need another Shazier, just a guy with the speed/coverage half of his skill set. Hargrave has been OK I guess, but seems more of a rotational player than a deciding factor. I would think both of those should be available in some respect, even if we have to make a trade and take on salary to get one. And we don't just have $14 million, we have much more than that.

We would easily blow our chance to do that if we stupidly pick up the option on Dupree for $10 million, which is why I really hope we don't. Put the $10 million toward fixing our other problems and replace him with a mid-round draft pick, we'll get the same results with the other pass rushers still being good. Has he done anything to make himself worth even close to $10 million? No, he hasn't, so that's where that discussion ends for me.

[86WARD]

Less than 24 hours. I’m excited for the outcome!!

[Mojouw]

I think what would help us are three things, in this order:

1. Fast ILB who can cover tight ends

2. A dominant defensive tackle to go along with Heyward and Tuitt; or that failing, at least a solid DT who does not have to come off the field on passing plays

3. Pass rusher, maybe

#1 and #2 don't have to be a $14 million guy, although if that's what it takes, that cost is actually not prohibitive this year. Especially in the case of #1, even a pretty-good player will help immensely. (Bostic is not too far off that skill level, for example, but has the completely wrong skill set for the job.)

I actually think that if we can fix #1 or #2, or better yet #1 AND #2, we don't even necessarily need an improved pass rusher. Our pass rush is actually not doing bad with Tuitt, Heyward and Watt plus whatever we can get from the others. VW and Bostic are decent, but both go in the same role and are poor at the other role that Shazier used to occupy. We don't need another Shazier, just a guy with the speed/coverage half of his skill set. Hargrave has been OK I guess, but seems more of a rotational player than a deciding factor. I would think both of those should be available in some respect, even if we have to make a trade and take on salary to get one. And we don't just have $14 million, we have much more than that.

We would easily blow our chance to do that if we stupidly pick up the option on Dupree for $10 million, which is why I really hope we don't. Put the $10 million toward fixing our other problems and replace him with a mid-round draft pick, we'll get the same results with the other pass rushers still being good. Has he done anything to make himself worth even close to $10 million? No, he hasn't, so that's where that discussion ends for me.

I don't know. Dupree is a separate discussion. As to your list, I just think you are tilting at windmills.

As we saw last off-season, #1 doesn't show up on the open market. If a team has a 3-4 ILB that can turn and run with TEs, they don't let those guys go. If they do by some odd quirk of fate become available, they cost 8-10 million per year (Hitchens, Bradham, and Hightower) and it is not clear how much better those FA signings have been than VW and Bostic.

As to #2, I would argue we have the passing down version already in Hargraves and why they insist on never letting him get some run in pass rushing situations is beyond me. As for dominant, not sure what you are thinking. When I hear "dominant DT" I think Donald or Suh for pass rush or Brandon Williams for run stuffing and now you are back to 10-14+ million per year.

The rest of your post seems to be supporting my limited point that $14 million getting two "very good" defenders and a "back-up RB" was not held up by the available data points. On the free agent market $14 million buys ONE very good defender and a crappy almost washed up veteran RB. That was my only point.

Now if we want to talk about what the Steelers can do with 20-30 million in cap space in their pocket, then we are having a totally different conversation. As to who will be available, we can look up the possibilities and they are underwhelming. Even if we assume that KJ Wright and Clowney make it to the open market, those are 2 of a very small group of names that I think would move the needle in a meaningful way for this defense. I think the best path for defensive improvement would be to sign a # of 2nd and 3rd tier guys and build up depth...but where does that get you?

[AtlantaDan]

Right... But the general assumption out there in the media and thus *the fan base* was that if he was re- signed, it would be on the same tender. Nobody in any position of authority corrected that until just last week. *This* is what Hollywood and I were discussing; Why didn't Bakari use that fact as leverage in the negotiations or announce it to the general public?

The general assumption of the media and the fan base was Bell would not sit out the whole year so until recently nobody focused on what if he does sit out the entire year

And we do not know what was discussed in negotiations except what was leaked

FWIW an agent has no obligation to do a CBA 101 course on ESPN but I do not think Bakari failing to read the franchise tag provisions of the CBA verbatim on ESPN and define the plain meaning of what a designation is was necessary - he said if Bell is franchise tagged in 2019 it is going to trigger QB $$$.

Nobody saw fit to ask what if he sits out the whole year just as they did not ask Colbert. Nobody is accusing the Steelers of hiding or not knowing about that provision of the CBA

[lipps83]

I just don't see how the franchise tag for this year could count if it was never signed? IIRC the 3rd year Franchise QB amount comes from when the Seattle Seahawks tagged Walter Jones 3 years (might have even been more) in a row. This was added as a deterrent to continuously tag a player year-after-year.

That was a long time and many beers ago. My memory is probably wrong, but sounds good enough to me that I will say it is true to everyone I talk too :)

[AtlantaDan]

I just don't see how the franchise tag for this year could count if it was never signed? IIRC the 3rd year Franchise QB amount comes from when the Seattle Seahawks tagged Walter Jones 3 years (might have even been more) in a row. This was added as a deterrent to continuously tag a player year-after-year.

That was a long time and many beers ago. My memory is probably wrong, but sounds good enough to me that I will say it is true to everyone I talk too :)

Think of a designation as an invitation.

If I invite you to a party in 2017 and you attend after returning a signed RSVP, then I invite you to another party in 2018 for which you do not return the signed RSVP or attend, if I invite you to yet another party in 2019 is that the second invitation or the third invitation?

[Shoes]

Less than 24 hours. I’m excited for the outcome!!


You know he’s not going to show up. :lol:

[AtlantaDan]

You know he’s not going to show up. :lol:

Need to send up a #26 signal at the Steelers facilities like the Bat signal

[GoSlash27]

FWIW an agent has no obligation to do a CBA 101 course on ESPN...
AD,
Yeah, we know... I'm afraid either you're missing the point or else I'm not explaining it clearly. It would've been in Bakari's and Bell's best interest to clearly state that if Bell sat out this season, he was entitled to QB pay next year way back during negotiations, yet they did not. Having everyone aware of that fact (media, fans, Steelers FO) only benefits them, so why didn't they? If tomorrow afternoon isn't any sort of "deadline" for him getting credit for this season... why did he even bother showing up in Pittsburgh last week?

[GoSlash27]

Think of a designation as an invitation.

If I invite you to a party in 2017 and you attend after returning a signed RSVP, then I invite you to another party in 2018 for which you do not return the signed RSVP or attend, if I invite you to yet another party in 2019 is that the second invitation or the third invitation?
That's the plain text interpretation of the CBA, and both sides agree that it is so, but both sides also agree that it wasn't intended to be that way; it's a loophole due to an oversight they intend to fix during the next CBA. The original intent was IAW what lipps thought; a tag doesn't count if you don't sign it.
It's no stretch to imagine that not everybody was aware it would be a problem or even that it existed. We can't say for sure who in the process knew about it or who didn't. It's only now at this late date that we've gotten confirmation from both sides that it is so.

[GBMelBlount]

OK, but isn't the Non-exclusive the average of the top 5 RB, not the top 5 QB, like the Exclusive tag would be?

If they tagged him non-exclusive and the cost was again say $15million and a team was willing to give up 2 first round picks to sign him(with an agreement the Steelers would say trade a 1st for a 4th with that team later), then the Steelers could conceivably tag Bell and get a first and a 4th for him. Or they could trade him if he signed the tag and somebody else would have him the one season with the baggage of trying to sign him long term.

I just think that he wont sign this season, but the Steelers can still leverage his value to maximize what comes back to them in the offseason.

For now, I think the guy gave up $14 million on principle and ego that he may never recover.

A whole box of duct tape cant fix that kind of stupid.

Agreed.

I think one reason he may not have come back is because he is embarrassed that Conner's numbers BLOW his away.

The only thing that would look worse imo is if he comes back and Conner still blows his numbers away side by side.

If that happened his stock would drop even more.

It seems to me he has created a lose lose situation for himself.

[steelreserve]

Now if we want to talk about what the Steelers can do with 20-30 million in cap space in their pocket, then we are having a totally different conversation. As to who will be available, we can look up the possibilities and they are underwhelming. Even if we assume that KJ Wright and Clowney make it to the open market, those are 2 of a very small group of names that I think would move the needle in a meaningful way for this defense. I think the best path for defensive improvement would be to sign a # of 2nd and 3rd tier guys and build up depth...but where does that get you?

That situation is what we are talking about for sure. If all we had was $14 million to mess around with, I doubt we'd spend it on a high-profile player anyway. With twice that or more, I can see them making a move.

Don't count out the possibility of a trade ... while there is always the notion that the best players "are never going to reach free agency," there are always a good number of disgruntled high-level players with a year or two left on their contracts, or disgruntled teams who employ those players, and in either case the team is often looking to move them before they leave for nothing. Sometimes the price is steep, sometimes they just want to unload salary.

Arguments along these lines have been made for years - "Well we don't have enough money!" followed by "Well, we might have money, but who is available!" But high-level players change teams all the time one way or another, whether it's straight free agency or something else. We have rarely been involved in that, but it seems we might have a rare opportunity to do so.

Oh yeah, as for the ILB question specifically, I would suggest we take a look at Arizona ... IIRC they had two of those speedy 3-4 coverage type ILBs but switched to a 4-3 and now both are kind of the odd man out. Neither is a star per se, but I think players like that do exist out there who can do one thing well and not cost a fortune. Our ILB problem that we need one complementary skill to go at the other position, not that we need a rare unicorn at the other position.

[AtlantaDan]

AD,
Yeah, we know... I'm afraid either you're missing the point or else I'm not explaining it clearly. It would've been in Bakari's and Bell's best interest to clearly state that if Bell sat out this season, he was entitled to QB pay next year way back during negotiations, yet they did not. Having everyone aware of that fact (media, fans, Steelers FO) only benefits them, so why didn't they? If tomorrow afternoon isn't any sort of "deadline" for him getting credit for this season... why did he even bother showing up in Pittsburgh last week?

How would it have been in Bakari's and Bell's best interest to clearly state that if Bell sat out this season, he was entitled to QB pay next year if the Steelers already knew that? And how do you know Bakari did not raise it anyhow? If you have a link to the transcripts of Bakari negotiating with the Steelers please pass it along.

If I can read the CBA and figure it out, while nobody who does this for their day job is now disputing that is the correct interpretation of the CBA, someone as successful as Bakari figured it out or was told what it means by the NFLPA before he went into negotiations this year. As far as not telling the media and fans, that was what he said on ESPN last July

The only reason there is any contention Bakari did not know how it works is because that ignorant jackass Ian Rapoport tweeted last Thursday morning it looked like Bakari did not know while pumping a story about how the CBA works by one of colleagues on NFL Network. That prompted Adam Schefter to tweet out that Bakari's appeared on ESPN last July when Bakari said the third tag triggers QB money in order to establish (once again) that Rapoport often tweets swill - like this

399557204199899137
As far as Bell showing up in Pittsburgh last week after tweeting Fairwell Miami to play basketball at LA Fitness, why did we see him on jet skis, read his snarky emojis after the Cleveland tie, or his other self-indulgent tweets since September? He is screwing with the media and us because he craves the attention. He could have caught a flight anytime between last week and tonight out of Miami if he thought he needed to sign by tomorrow's 4 pm deadline with no publicity.


That's the plain text interpretation of the CBA, and both sides agree that it is so, but both sides also agree that it wasn't intended to be that way; it's a loophole due to an oversight they intend to fix during the next CBA. The original intent was IAW what lipps thought; a tag doesn't count if you don't sign it.
It's no stretch to imagine that not everybody was aware it would be a problem or even that it existed. We can't say for sure who in the process knew about it or who didn't. It's only now at this late date that we've gotten confirmation from both sides that it is so.

Where is the link to the story that both the NFL and the NFLPA screwed up drafting that clause in the CBA, did not intend to agree to its plain meaning, and plan to change it? That is a joint admission to a major screwup when the NFL and NFLPA have trouble jointly agreeing on anything.

I have my doubts - the 2011 CBA negotiations were not the first rodeo for any of the main players or their high priced attorneys

:drink:

[Dwinsgames]

I could be wrong ... But I do not believe I am ....

I Believe he has to SIGN the tag for the tag to count ....

but believe me the league will make a ruling on this prior to the need to tag

[ALLD]

Less than 24 hours. I’m excited for the outcome!!

Read all of my previous posts. Bell is done in Pittsburgh. It takes talent to make big money and it takes a brain to keep it. We know which he has and which he does not. He took a year off and it cost him an opportunity of a lifetime. You also cannot go into a season thinking that you will get a career ending injury, especially if you have a drug and injury history. He made the case himself for why no team will give him big guaranteed money.

[Mojouw]

That situation is what we are talking about for sure. If all we had was $14 million to mess around with, I doubt we'd spend it on a high-profile player anyway. With twice that or more, I can see them making a move.

Don't count out the possibility of a trade ... while there is always the notion that the best players "are never going to reach free agency," there are always a good number of disgruntled high-level players with a year or two left on their contracts, or disgruntled teams who employ those players, and in either case the team is often looking to move them before they leave for nothing. Sometimes the price is steep, sometimes they just want to unload salary.

Arguments along these lines have been made for years - "Well we don't have enough money!" followed by "Well, we might have money, but who is available!" But high-level players change teams all the time one way or another, whether it's straight free agency or something else. We have rarely been involved in that, but it seems we might have a rare opportunity to do so.

Oh yeah, as for the ILB question specifically, I would suggest we take a look at Arizona ... IIRC they had two of those speedy 3-4 coverage type ILBs but switched to a 4-3 and now both are kind of the odd man out. Neither is a star per se, but I think players like that do exist out there who can do one thing well and not cost a fortune. Our ILB problem that we need one complementary skill to go at the other position, not that we need a rare unicorn at the other position.

I think a trade targeting a player that a current team doesn't think they can resign is the best hope. The Eagles and Rams have been showing how to make this happen.

Plus, I think, but don't know for sure -- trades may not impact comp pick formula. So best of both worlds?

I honestly think they are "done" at ILB and are going to try and get through with VW, Bostic, Thomas, and a variety of safeties until they identify another elite prospect in the draft. Not saying I agree with this move, but that is pretty much Colbert's style.

I see them really wanting to add something at OLB and CB. Realistically what was a potential position of strength has turned into Joe Haden and the misfit broken toys.

What would you have to offer to convince the Jags that Ramsey's mouth isn't worth it? Or to convince the Rams they need some of those mid round draft picks back and they won't be able to afford Peters? Maybe load up and make a run at Peterson again?

Neither is likely a possibility but fun to think about.

[GoSlash27]

AD,

As far as not telling the media and fans, that was what he said on ESPN last July
Okay, now we're just arguing around in circles. What he said back in July isn't the same thing as what we've been discussing. You're not picking up what I'm putting down, or I'm just not putting it down clearly enough. I didn't even have any intention of arguing with you about it, I was just trying to explain to you what we were talking about.Tappin' out.

[AtlantaDan]

AD,

[/U]Okay, now we're just arguing around in circles. What he said back in July isn't the same thing as what we've been discussing. You're not picking up what I'm putting down, or I'm just not putting it down clearly enough. I didn't even have any intention of arguing with you about it, I was just trying to explain to you what we were talking about.Tappin' out.

We agree to disagree

Not agreeing with your position does not mean I am not picking up on it

:drink:

[GoSlash27]

We agree to disagree

Not agreeing with your position does not mean I am not picking up on it

:drink:

No, we don't even disagree. You're disagreeing with a position that hasn't even been made. We are talking about two related but different subjects. You're not understanding me or I'm not making myself understood, and I'm giving up trying to explain it.
We're talking past each other, and sometimes that happens. We're still cool.
Best,
-Slashy

[pczach]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0K4mVE5b5WZ1sctW/giphy.gif

[teegre]

Think of a designation as an invitation.

If I invite you to a party in 2017 and you attend after returning a signed RSVP, then I invite you to another party in 2018 for which you do not return the signed RSVP or attend, if I invite you to yet another party in 2019 is that the second invitation or the third invitation?

Brilliant analogy :nod:

[polamalubeast]

1062154732913848320

[teegre]

1062154732913848320

I wonder if Maurice Jones-Drew will call out Willie McGinest for siding with Ramon Foster...

[GoSlash27]

1062154732913848320
Honestly, I have no issue with Bell putting money ahead of the team. Guaranteed, the team will put money ahead of him every time. He's just looking out for #1, and I've never seen him be anything less than 100% in for the win when he's suited up.
The problem is he demanded more money than the team can afford and priced himself out of the market. Conner has proven that they don't need him.
Sorry, dood. Nuthin' personal, good luck in Oakland or wherever.

[AtlantaDan]

I wonder if Maurice Jones-Drew will call out Willie McGinest for siding with Ramon Foster...

Only after Maurice Jones-Drew finishes comparing Bell to his fellow business geniuses of our time

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[teegre]

Only after Maurice Jones-Drew finishes comparing Bell to his fellow business geniuses of our time

1061992552801259522

Bwahahaha!!!! :toofunny:

[Lady Steel]

Less than 24 hours. I’m excited for the outcome!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvXUZKEkhDA

[polamalubeast]

1062167584643207168

[FrancoLambert]

1062167584643207168

Booger McFarland is a bad joke as an analyst.
Adds nothing and only states/restates the obvious.
ie. After an interception: “he’d like to have that throw back.”
After a fumble: “ you can’t put the ball on the ground there.”
Is there a good time to fumble?

[polamalubeast]

1062345175203229696

[polamalubeast]

July 2016: Under the alias "Juice," a nickname given by coach Mike Tomlin, Bell releases the rap song "Focus," which revealed his self-worth on the field. "I’m at the top, and if not, I’m the closest. I’m a need 15 a year and they know this," he rapped, hinting at a $15 million salary.

March 29, 2018: Bell posts a cryptic tweet about how fans and media depict his approach to his contract. "It's so hard to be a hero in a city that paints youu out to be the villain," he tweets. Bell had spoken in the past about fans taking the team's side over the player, so this tweet addresses his feelings on the issue.

May 25, 2018: Bell releases a rap track, "Target,' a 3-plus-minute song that addresses his current feelings about the negotiations. A sample:

So they put me on the tag, all right/Definitely not going to trip like I that bad guy/Wonder why they treat me like the bad guy/You say I ain't the best, but that's a bad lie/I'mma do what I want, just leave me alone/If I don't do what you want then you want me gone/I'mma say you being real aggressive/The way you switch up on me real impressive.

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/29309/the-30-month-leveon-bell-contract-saga-how-we-got-here

Several reasons why Bell is hated in Pittsburgh and his tweets have not helped his popularity

[86WARD]

Read all of my previous posts. Bell is done in Pittsburgh. It takes talent to make big money and it takes a brain to keep it. We know which he has and which he does not. He took a year off and it cost him an opportunity of a lifetime. You also cannot go into a season thinking that you will get a career ending injury, especially if you have a drug and injury history. He made the case himself for why no team will give him big guaranteed money.

I actually brought up the topic of him not showing at all this season 3-4 weeks ago. Maybe longer.

I’m just excited to see it as an “official” show or no show...lol.

[AtlantaDan]

1062345175203229696

Thanks for the link

In other words there has never been a plan for what the endgame was for Bell reporting. Instead it is subject to the mood swings of #26.

Booger McFarland may still be spinning for Team Bell (good to know the horrible MNF crew is still discussing everything except the game in front of them) but the consensus is Bell blew it. Add sports agent Ralph Cindrich and Peter King to that list.

1061026614337662977
1061658232379207680
1061684121724870657

I’m not optimistic for Bell. Someone who has experience in negotiating major NFL contracts, whose opinion I trust implicitly in contract matters, told me Sunday: “He can’t ever get back $14.5 million. We’re not talking a couple million. That’s some serious, life-changing money.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/12/rams-seahawks-fires-nfl-week-10-fmia-peter-king/

[EzraTank]

1062167584643207168

Yeah because anyone that goes by Booger must me listened to ...

Bell could have made $14 million dollars and STILL controlled his "families" future after this year.

You know how many lifetimes a "average" person would have to work to get $14 million dollars? Let's say you make the average household income in 2018 for the United States (roughly $61K). You would need to work about 230 years.

F you Le'Veon Bell and Booger.


Oct. 1, 2018: Bell speaks publicly about his holdout for the first time in an interview with ESPN. Bell says he's playing in 2018, doesn't expect to be traded, expects the team to transition-tag him in 2019 and still wants to be a Steeler long term. "I miss football," Bell says. "When I do get back, I plan to give it my all. I still do want to go out there and win a Super Bowl with the Steelers." Bell adds he had to "take this stand" and confirms he turned down a $70 million offer over five years because of the low guarantee ($17 million). "It's monopoly money," he says.

What a douche.

[polamalubeast]

1062369240248926208

[hwalker84]

When we win the Superbowl does he still get a ring?

[T&B fan]

tic tic tic tic ,you my be a runner but you running out of time ,tic tic tic tic ...

[EzraTank]

When we win the Superbowl does he still get a ring?

He's not under contract anymore so HELL NO!

[steelreserve]

When we win the Superbowl does he still get a ring?

Do unsigned free agents get a Super Bowl ring? Bell was never on a team this season and never signed a contract. As far as I know, he was never even in the same building with anyone from the Steelers, and except for the past few days was not even in the same state. So I would have to guess the answer is no.



Oct. 1, 2018: Bell speaks publicly about his holdout for the first time in an interview with ESPN. Bell says he's playing in 2018, doesn't expect to be traded, expects the team to transition-tag him in 2019 and still wants to be a Steeler long term. "I miss football," Bell says. "When I do get back, I plan to give it my all. I still do want to go out there and win a Super Bowl with the Steelers." Bell adds he had to "take this stand" and confirms he turned down a $70 million offer over five years because of the low guarantee ($17 million). "It's monopoly money," he says.

I hate to keep bringing it up, but it needs to be ... the "rolling guarantee" of the contract he was offered essentially meant $32 million would have been guaranteed the minute he showed up, and $40-million-plus guaranteed by March 2019 for all practical purposes, including injury. The only way he could possibly screw that up was by getting another drug suspension.

Dude is screaming "fight the man" from the rooftops, but there's not even any man to fight.

[Lady Steel]

https://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i-w600/keep-calm-only-4-hours-to-go.jpg

[smokin3000gt]

♫♫ He's on a mission ona mission.. ♫♫

[Fire Goodell]

When we win the Superbowl does he still get a ring?

No but in all honestly it'd be funny to mail him one anyway with a letter saying we never needed him to get one of these lol

[tube517]

When we win the Superbowl does he still get a ring?

Nope

[GoSlash27]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwlqymYLCb4

[steelreserve]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwlqymYLCb4

oh my god what an awful band

[Fire Goodell]

oh my god what an awful band

Dude no way, they were one hit wonders but I've heard a lot worse.

[Shoes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suy_H92byrM

[86WARD]

When we win the Superbowl does he still get a ring?

He would not. He’s not a rostered or ever was a rostered player for this season.

[DesertSteel]

I think we should start a GoFundMe page for Bell to help him get through the year before he signs for $200M next year.

[cheezheadsteeler]

♫♫ He's on a mission ona mission.. ♫♫

And he's wishin, someone would cure his lonely condition?
Bust-a-move

[polamalubeast]

This is over


1062446265483583489

[GoSlash27]

4:00, no L. Bell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaG2Acg8n60
All done with this silliness :D

[vasteeler]

Thank God, no longer our problem. Dont let the door hit you where the good Lord split you!

[SteelMember]

No one knew for sure what he was going to do at 4:00, but I'm sure we all have a pretty good idea what he'll be doing at 4:20...

[Fire Goodell]

No one knew for sure what he was going to do at 4:00, but I'm sure we all have a pretty good idea what he'll be doing at 4:20...

:chuckle:

[polamalubeast]

1062452087215349760

[Fire Goodell]

This is over


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkEcNmBPlVg

Oh... It ain't over MFers :chuckle:

[AtlantaDan]

Ed B. of the P-G is a curmudgeon but since he seems to share my view on Bell as an alleged soldier in the legacy of struggle I guess I am too

1062445868052373504

If the NFL is the WWE in shoulder pads, Conner stepping in for wrestling heel Bell is a great plot twist

[Shoes]

Bell's been freed from the Steeler Plantation! Light em up LeVeon! :smoker:

[T&B fan]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000987961/article/leveon-bell-does-not-sign-tag-will-miss-2018-season


"As for Bell, he'll be limited to cheering on his teammates from afar as he waits for next important date in his quest to find contractual bliss. The Steelers can place him on transition tag starting Feb. 19 "

not anymore

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Bell's been freed from the Steeler Plantation! Light em up LeVeon! :smoker:

Well, the Steelers have their volunteers that have been there all season.....no hostages.

Although, I would volunteer for $145,000.....never mind the $14,500,000.

[86WARD]

$14.5M back into the Steelers wallet. It’s gotta kinda feel good...lol.

[Edman]

Do not ask for whom the Bell tolls. It tolls for thee.

[tube517]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46184616_2867737559919079_2628516987264827392_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=2d1e18064b4d851e0b3aef85007f36aa&oe=5C6F7E0E

[polamalubeast]

1062452862985342977

- - - Updated - - -

1062454731858161671

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

$14.5M back into the Steelers wallet. It’s gotta kinda feel good...lol.

True. Seem to be taking control of the AFC North as the weeks go on, but just saved all that money!

[ALLD]

He will never survive the head game and will be out of the NFL in 3 years. Broke in less than 10 years. He still needs to pass a drug test and a tryout for the next team. He blew it and it was so obvious to most people, but himself.

[fansince'76]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVrEwCa8nSA

[Dwinsgames]

1062464831104655360

[Fire Goodell]

Le'Veon Bell sure had a record breaking season alright, is he the only one that was ever stupid enough to turn down 14 million a year?

[Shoes]

Well, the Steelers have their volunteers that have been there all season.....no hostages.

Although, I would volunteer for $145,000.....never mind the $14,500,000.

I'd race you to the door. :lol:

[SteelMember]

I'd race you to the door. :lol:

Sure, you may have the suddenness, but you're nothing without the glide. :chuckle:

[GBMelBlount]

:asskick:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gmZ4RJp5GQ

[SteelMember]

True. Seem to be taking control of the AFC North as the weeks go on, but just saved all that money!

Sounds like it could be a Geico-esque commercial for the Steelers... "Sure the playoffs are always the goal, but we just saved a bunch of money with a backup (in waiting)." :wink02:

[GoSlash27]

Sounds like it could be a Geico-esque commercial for the Steelers... "Sure the playoffs are always the goal, but we just saved a bunch of money with a backup (in waiting)." :wink02:

That's awesome!
"I just saved a ton of money by switching to Conner!" :toofunny:

[polamalubeast]

I think the colts or the texans will be the next team for Bell.

[86WARD]

So early word is that the Steelers and the league will be fighting that since Bell didn’t sign nor play this season, that it’s not an accrued season and the Steelers should be able to tag him again...lol.

So there’s that option, the third tag option, the franchise tag option, let him just go and get the third round pick or sign him to one of the tags and trade. Quite a few options...the only thing we know is he’s not a 2019 free agent...lol.

[polamalubeast]

1062478078016811010

[vader29]

https://www.yourtango.com/sites/default/files/styles/body_image_default/public/image_list/11%20bye%20felicia.png

[polamalubeast]

So early word is that the Steelers and the league will be fighting that since Bell didn’t sign nor play this season, that it’s not an accrued season and the Steelers should be able to tag him again...lol.

So there’s that option, the third tag option, the franchise tag option, let him just go and get the third round pick or sign him to one of the tags and trade. Quite a few options...the only thing we know is he’s not a 2019 free agent...lol.

do you have the link?

It will be funny if this is true:lol:

[steelreserve]

So early word is that the Steelers and the league will be fighting that since Bell didn’t sign nor play this season, that it’s not an accrued season and the Steelers should be able to tag him again...lol.

So there’s that option, the third tag option, the franchise tag option, let him just go and get the third round pick or sign him to one of the tags and trade. Quite a few options...the only thing we know is he’s not a 2019 free agent...lol.


I think the "accrued season" definition only applies to whether you are a restricted (3 or less seasons) or unrestricted free agent (4 or more seasons) when your contract expires. Bell would be a UFA anyway.

What they are probably fighting over is whether being franchise tagged but not signing it counts as the second franchise tag or not, which affects their ability to do it again next year.

I also learned today that the tranny tag does not mean you get zero compensation if the free agent signs with someone else; you get comp picks like any other free agent. You just don't get a guaranteed pick from the tag itself. So there's really no reason not to do it and keep the right to match offers, unless we are really just done with the guy, which is what I would think.

[86WARD]

I think the "accrued season" definition only applies to whether you are a restricted (3 or less seasons) or unrestricted free agent (4 or more seasons) when your contract expires. Bell would be a UFA anyway.

What they are probably fighting over is whether being franchise tagged but not signing it counts as the second franchise tag or not, which affects their ability to do it again next year.

I also learned today that the tranny tag does not mean you get zero compensation if the free agent signs with someone else; you get comp picks like any other free agent. You just don't get a guaranteed pick from the tag itself. So there's really no reason not to do it and keep the right to match offers, unless we are really just done with the guy, which is what I would think.

Yes. Accrued was a poor choice of words. Basically they would go to arbitration over whether the season counts at all.

From the sounds of it, they aren’t going to let him go without some sort of effort to get maximum compensation and rightfully so. They’ll wind up getting something no matter what according to the clowns on NFL Radio.

[steelreserve]

Yes. Accrued was a poor choice of words. Basically they would go to arbitration over whether the season counts at all.

From the sounds of it, they aren’t going to let him go without some sort of effort to get maximum compensation and rightfully so. They’ll wind up getting something no matter what according to the clowns on NFL Radio.

To be honest, at this point unless they think they're going to get a first and a third in a trade offer, there's not a whole lot of point in another tag; just tying up a huge amount of cap space again for a guy who may or may not show, and probably hates your guts. Maybe it could be good leverage to get him to do a sign-and-trade, I guess. I'd be shocked if we signed him to a long-term deal given everything else that's happened in the meantime, and equally shocked if we used another tag except maybe the tranny, which isn't affected by this.

[polamalubeast]

1062487644511330304

[DShell31]

What get's me is Bell accually thinks he has a leg up on the steelers. You think colbert is happy the way this has gone down. Steelers front office don't like being make look stupid. They will franchise him again and do a sign and trade or he will sit out another year. He's my logic. We take the 14.5 mil we saved this year add another 12.4 mil or so to place it on him. Heck we were expecting that number to be 30 mil first 2 years anyway so we are not out anything. And we can now decide where he gets to play. NO Baltimore. Bell doesn't have the leverage. His agent has fed him some bad advise.

[EzraTank]

I think the colts or the texans will be the next team for Bell.Ravens. You just know it.

[EzraTank]

What get's me is Bell accually thinks he has a leg up on the steelers. You think colbert is happy the way this has gone down. Steelers front office don't like being make look stupid. They will franchise him again and do a sign and trade or he will sit out another year. He's my logic. We take the 14.5 mil we saved this year add another 12.4 mil or so to place it on him. Heck we were expecting that number to be 30 mil first 2 years anyway so we are not out anything. And we can now decide where he gets to play. NO Baltimore. Bell doesn't have the leverage. His agent has fed him some bad advise.Not going to happen, he's done here.

[Buckinnuts]

thank god it is over...give conner and hilton alittle extra

[AtlantaDan]

Bell doesn't have the leverage. His agent has fed him some bad advise.

If the ESPN article linked earlier today is to be believed, the agent lost control of this process some time ago. Hard to believe it was agent who recommended Bell should report after the Steelers went 1-2-1 since Bell would be the “missing piece” then recommended no let’s wait until after the trade deadline since that will increase Bell’s leverage in 2019.

It was Bell that drove the process off the cliff - the agent was like a media rep for a politician or celebrity who needs to spin whatever crazy act the client commits

Good times ahead next year when Bell fires Bakari after the anticipated big $$$ offers do not come rolling in

[polamalubeast]

1062499491574620160

[GoSlash27]

Ravens. You just know it.

Somebody's got to be dumb enough to pay his outrageous asking price. I suspect it'll be a bottom- feeder (read: desperate) team. That'll be fun to watch.

[polamalubeast]

1062499104771719173

[GoSlash27]

Ravens. You just know it.

Let him play for the Ravens if that's the case. Their o- line is weak. Both of them will find out the hard way that football is a *team* sport. There is no Lebron James in football.

[smokin3000gt]

$14.5M back into the Steelers wallet. It’s gotta kinda feel good...lol.


Absolutely! It's not everyday you replace a $15,000,000 diva with a $500,000 long term solution

[j-d-s]

Somebody's got to be dumb enough to pay his outrageous asking price. I suspect it'll be a bottom- feeder (read: desperate) team. That'll be fun to watch.
Even more fun that those bottom feeder team usually have bad O-Lines and bad QBs so it will be hard for Bell to succeed.

Just look at Dallas, they made DeMarco Murray look like an All-Pro with their O-Line. As soon as Murray left things went south very fast.

[Fire Goodell]

What get's me is Bell accually thinks he has a leg up on the steelers. You think colbert is happy the way this has gone down. Steelers front office don't like being make look stupid. They will franchise him again and do a sign and trade or he will sit out another year. He's my logic. We take the 14.5 mil we saved this year add another 12.4 mil or so to place it on him. Heck we were expecting that number to be 30 mil first 2 years anyway so we are not out anything. And we can now decide where he gets to play. NO Baltimore. Bell doesn't have the leverage. His agent has fed him some bad advise.

We can't tag him unless we're willing to spend $25M. The Steelers won't do that, although Bell would jump to play at that price even for a year. I think if we transition tag him too, we don't get a comp pick if he's signed away (almost definitely will).

It's like a bad marriage, sometimes best for both parties just to walk away and move on.

[smokin3000gt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo-KmOd3i7s

[Shoes]

Somebody's got to be dumb enough to pay his outrageous asking price. I suspect it'll be a bottom- feeder (read: desperate) team. That'll be fun to watch.


There is always a Miami/Wallace team out there.

[Fire Goodell]

I said it before and will say it again, paying RBs ridiculous money isn't a formula that wins super bowls. How many championships did Adrian Peterson or Larry Johnson win? :chuckle:

Certainly less than Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc

[HollywoodSteel]

Somebody's got to be dumb enough to pay his outrageous asking price. I suspect it'll be a bottom- feeder (read: desperate) team. That'll be fun to watch.

I read that the Jets are the odds on favorite to sign him, followed by the Raiders and the Eagles.

He’ll find a home in one of those places... hopefully the Jets. Bad O-line and those fans will HATE him if he underperforms.

[Fire Goodell]

I read that the Jets are the odds on favorite to sign him, followed by the Raiders and the Eagles.

He’ll find a home in one of those places... hopefully the Jets. Bad O-line and those fans will HATE him if he underperforms.

NY fans are brutal too, he had better blow it up there or he's gonna be sent crying lol

[polamalubeast]

I said it before and will say it again, paying RBs ridiculous money isn't a formula that wins super bowls. How many championships did Adrian Peterson or Larry Johnson win? :chuckle:

Unless you're a great talent all-time, it can be a good idea, but Bell is not.

Even with DeAngelo Williams in his last legs in 2015, our offense was very successful, so yes Bell had big stats with us, but that does not mean that his impact was incredible,unless our backup RB was not a NFL caliber....

[GoSlash27]

I read that the Jets are the odds on favorite to sign him, followed by the Raiders and the Eagles.

He’ll find a home in one of those places... hopefully the Jets. Bad O-line and those fans will HATE him if he underperforms.
Having a money pit like Bell on the roster might delay their rebuilding efforts for years, but I could see them trying it. There's a reason why consistently bad teams are consistently bad.

[polamalubeast]

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[Dwinsgames]

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[polamalubeast]

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[stillers4me]

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[Dwinsgames]

We can't tag him unless we're willing to spend $25M.


that is unfounded and yet to be determined ...

it will be determined prior to time to tag by the league and its lawyers ...

I believe it will end up being that he can be tagged at this years number again in 2019 and he will have to decide to sign it or retire

[polamalubeast]

that is unfounded and yet to be determined ...

it will be determined prior to time to tag by the league and its lawyers ...

I believe it will end up being that he can be tagged at this years number again in 2019 and he will have to decide to sign it or retire

I did not see it on twitter .... Where did you see that?

[stillers4me]

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I did not see it on twitter .... Where did you see that?


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[vasteeler]

So...can we delete all the LB threads now?

[polamalubeast]

Jason La Canfora is not the most credible reporter, so we'll see.

[Dwinsgames]

I did not see it on twitter .... Where did you see that?

I wish I could tell you .... but I can't ..

Read the league and it's lawyers along with the Steelers will be trying to determine what this all means come 2019 and what Bells tag number will be ..

this is uncharted waters many believe an unsigned Tag is like no tag at all because the terms of it where not carried out by both parties and the team has a right to the player at the premium price if they so desire and if the player did not hold up to his end of it why would he be credited with the Tagged year ....

others believe simply placing the tag is enough even though the player dictated the results and did not play or practice a down or sign the tag ...

personally I believe that the former will be the result and if so there is a very good chance the Steelers tag him and control his destination via a trade and reap some value above a comp selection

[Steelerchad]

I don't know why everyone's saying we get a 3rd round pick. If Bell sucks as much as everyone says he does, we're not going to get anything for him. Moreover, if we go out and pick ourselves up a good CB or LB like everyone wants, it'll negate a 3rd round pick pretty fast. Now, if we also lose Foster in the offseason, it'll help us out some with picks. How, I'm not sure, but it will.

It doesn't take much to get a 3rd rounder. If he goes away and becomes a feature back we'll get the 3rd.

[GoSlash27]

If Bell sucks as much as everyone says he does...

I don't think anyone anywhere said "Bell sucks". He does not suck. He's probably the most complete back in the league today. He's just not worth the price he demands and more than a bit of a head case. We have proven that we can get comparable (in some ways superior) performance from a much more grounded and affordable RB.
Also no longer our problem. Let him go be a money sucking primadonna elsewhere. We've got work to do.

[teegre]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkEcNmBPlVg

Oh... It ain't over MFers :chuckle:

:applaudit:

Colbert = Cube
Bell = Eazy

[j-d-s]

I don't think anyone anywhere said "Bell sucks". He does not suck. He's probably the most complete back in the league today. He's just not worth the price he demands and more than a bit of a head case. We have proven that we can get comparable (in some ways superior) performance from a much more grounded and affordable RB.
Also no longer our problem. Let him go be a money sucking primadonna elsewhere. We've got work to do.
At least Bell will miss out on a ring by not signing :).

[Lady Steel]

Soooo happy this drama is over.

Next man up! The job is officially all yours, James Conner. LET'S GO! :tt02:

[86WARD]

To be honest, at this point unless they think they're going to get a first and a third in a trade offer, there's not a whole lot of point in another tag; just tying up a huge amount of cap space again for a guy who may or may not show, and probably hates your guts. Maybe it could be good leverage to get him to do a sign-and-trade, I guess. I'd be shocked if we signed him to a long-term deal given everything else that's happened in the meantime, and equally shocked if we used another tag except maybe the tranny, which isn't affected by this.

Sure there is. Anything more than a third is a bonus. The $14.5M could be used later to extend players, not necessary to have it immediately. On top of a possible extra pick or two above a third, the Steelers could possibly decide where to send him. What’s the worst that happens? An arbitrator finds in favor of Bell or they franchise him for $14.5M again and he no shows them?

Pat Kirwan floated a theory out there today that he believes Bell has a deal in place already with another team and that’s why he would give up the $15M so easily. Which makes sense. If you know you have a big pay day waiting, then it’s very easy to pass on $15M later. He may have a $100M deal with $40M guaranteed sitting out there with some easy to attain bonuses that he may not of normally had.

If I’m Pittsburgh and I suspected such, I’d make sure I’d make that as difficult as possible for him.

[86WARD]

Jason La Canfora is not the most credible reporter, so we'll see.

It’s coming from a lot of sources that this will most likely go to arbitration to decide if it can/should be done again.

[stillers4me]

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So...can we delete all the LB threads now?

I wish. :lol:

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[DesertSteel]

I don't think anyone anywhere said "Bell sucks". He does not suck. He's probably the most complete back in the league today. He's just not worth the price he demands and more than a bit of a head case. We have proven that we can get comparable (in some ways superior) performance from a much more grounded and affordable RB.
Also no longer our problem. Let him go be a money sucking primadonna elsewhere. We've got work to do.
He neither sucks nor is he the most complete back in the league. Steelers got his prime, which was over before last year.

[ALLD]

Bell will never make up the $ in the long run. He will be the Jamarcus of RBs. Next contract he will show a little and then take a dive.

[tube517]

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Poor Levar Burton. He gets confused for LaVar Ball and Le'Veon Bell. :lol:

[polamalubeast]

1062722908169166848

[EzraTank]

I said it before and will say it again, paying RBs ridiculous money isn't a formula that wins super bowls. How many championships did Adrian Peterson or Larry Johnson win? :chuckle:

Certainly less than Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc

Totally agree. When's the last time a stud RB lead their team to a Superbowl victory? In today's pass happy NFL it's been a VERY long time.

Here is a list of Superbowl Champions and their starting RB's. I'd argue you have to go all the way back to Marshall Faulk in 1999 to find a stud RB that won a Superbowl but that team had a TON of weapons and air attack. So looking back past 1999 maybe you could argue Terrell Davis in 97 & 98 he was pretty dominant. But the 1995 Cowboys with Emmitt Smith were probably the last team with a stud RB to win it all. So essentially since 1999 teams with "okay" starting running backs have won it all.



Year

Team

Starting Running Back(s)









1995

Cowboys

Smith


1996

Packers

Levens


1997

Broncos

Terrell Davis


1998

Broncos

Terrell Davis


1999

Rams

Marshall Faulk


2000

Ravens

Jamal Lewis


2001

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2002

Bucs

Alstott


2003

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2004

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2005

Steelers

Parker, Bettis (end of Career)


2006

Colts

Addai


2007

Giants

Bradshaw, Jacobs


2008

Steelers

Parker, Moore


2009

Saints

Bush


2010

Packers

Starks


2011

Giants

Bradshaw, Jacobs


2012

Ravens

Rice


2013

Seahawks

Marshawn Lynch


2014

Pats

James White, Blount


2015

Broncos

Anderson, Hillman


2016

Pats

James White, Blount


2017

Eagles

Blount, Ajayi



I mean look at the RB's the Pats have won their five Superbowls with ...

[AtlantaDan]

1062722908169166848

Ben could have let that stay private - shows he is pissed at how Bell has handled communicating

Full quote from Ben

1062724443405983744

I hope Ben and the other players follow Tomlin's lead and just say it is over

[polamalubeast]

Totally agree. When's the last time a stud RB lead their team to a Superbowl victory? In today's pass happy NFL it's been a VERY long time.

Here is a list of Superbowl Champions and their starting RB's. I'd argue you have to go all the way back to Marshall Faulk in 1999 since a stud RB won a Superbowl but that team had a TON of weapons and air attack. So looking back past 1999 maybe you could argue Terrell Davis in 97 & 98 he was pretty dominant. But the 1995 Cowboys with Emmitt Smith are probably the last team with a stud RB to win it all. So essentially since 1999 teams with "okay" starting running backs have won it all.



Year

Team

Starting Running Back(s)









1995

Cowboys

Smith


1996

Packers

Levens


1997

Broncos

Terrell Davis


1998

Broncos

Terrell Davis


1999

Rams

Marshall Faulk


2000

Ravens

Jamal Lewis


2001

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2002

Bucs

Alstott


2003

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2004

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2005

Steelers

Parker, Bettis (end of Career)


2006

Colts

Addai


2007

Giants

Bradshaw, Jacobs


2008

Steelers

Parker, Moore


2009

Saints

Bush


2010

Packers

Starks


2011

Giants

Bradshaw, Jacobs


2012

Ravens

Rice


2013

Seahawks

Marshawn Lynch


2014

Pats

James White, Blount


2015

Broncos

Anderson, Hillman


2016

Pats

James White, Blount


2017

Eagles

Blount, Ajayi



What make Marshall Faulk very special is that as receiver he was a huge mismatch, even against a CB!

In 1999, Faulk had more that 1,000 yards as receiver and was a true homerun threat.

Bell is a good receiver, but most of his catch are checkdown against a linebacker and he is not a HR threat.

The player that looks like the most Faulk is also playing for rams right now (Gurley) but I do not think he's a good receiver like Faulk was.

For the list of players you have named since 2001, not many players who have made the pro bowl in the year that their team won the SB too!

Only Dillon in 2004,Rice in 2012 and Lynch in 2013.

[EzraTank]

What make Marshall Faulk very special is that as receiver he was a huge mismatch, even against a CB!

In 1999, Faulk had more that 1,000 yards as receiver and was a true homerun threat.

Bell is a good receiver, but most of his catch are checkdown against a linebacker and he is not a HR threat.

The player that looks like the most Faulk is also playing for rams right now (Gurley) but I do not think he's a good receiver like Faulk was.

For the list of players you have named since 2001, not many players who have made the pro bowl in the year that their team won the SB too!

Only Dillon in 2004,Rice in 2012 and Lynch in 2013.

Yeah, I think Marshall Faulk was the first version of the new RB of the future. I still argue the last true stud RB to win it all was Emmitt Smith in 1995, although Terrell Davis was pretty darn good before the headaches ended his career.

[Dwinsgames]

Yeah, I think Marshall Faulk was the first version of the new RB of the future. I still argue the last true stud RB to win it all was Emmitt Smith in 1995, although Terrell Davis was pretty darn good before the headaches ended his career.

technically it was Marcus Allen , he was years ahead of his time ...

He is the first RB I recall splitting out wide and being successful at it ..

[polamalubeast]

Dunlap: Bell Never Thought Conner Would Succeed

Like you, I grew tired of the Le'Veon Bell saga. Sure, the incessant talk about it --- remember, I'm in the talk business --- was good for business. But it got grating, it got mundane and, really, it just got plain old.

I'm pretty happy, for the most part, it's all done.

In retrospect looking back at all of this, I don't care to revisit it chapter and verse. I'm not interested in going over the intricacies of the different franchise tags or where Le'Veon Bell will end up or the general boneheaded nature of his agent. I'd much rather talk about the real chances of this edition of the Pittsburgh Steelers moving forward and how they could just be turning into a legitimate contender in the AFC.

But I do want to get to the heart of one thing. I want to get to the heart of this whole thing...

This entire Le'Veon Bell situation happened, and continued to roar through into mid-November because, quite simply, he never thought James Conner would be this good.

Bell bet against Conner --- he bet heavy against Conner.

Bell never thought Conner would be anything more than his backup. He thought Conner would be the guy who comes in when he taps his helmet.

Don't ever forget that.

Don't ever let Le'Veon Bell fool you into thinking he was some team player.

Don't ever let the charade of Le'Veon Bell posting his Pro Bowl vote for Conner on social media twist your thinking. It was and is all a front and a lie. A big game for Le'Veon Bell who has proven, if anything, he doesn't know all that much how to play the P.R. game. In reality, he really sucks at it.

You see, the truth of the matter in all of this is that Bell was actively rooting against Conner. He wanted Conner to --- and thought he would --- fall flat on his face. Bell felt as if the Steelers would be in a position where they quickly needed Bell to hustle back into the lineup because Conner wouldn't be a guy who couldn't handle the rigors of the NFL as a feature back.

That was Bell's fundamental plan in all of this.

It turned out to be his fundamental flaw and ultimate failure as a Steeler.

read more

https://937thefan.radio.com/articles/dunlap-bell-never-thought-conner-would-succeed

[86WARD]

Totally agree. When's the last time a stud RB lead their team to a Superbowl victory? In today's pass happy NFL it's been a VERY long time.

Here is a list of Superbowl Champions and their starting RB's. I'd argue you have to go all the way back to Marshall Faulk in 1999 to find a stud RB that won a Superbowl but that team had a TON of weapons and air attack. So looking back past 1999 maybe you could argue Terrell Davis in 97 & 98 he was pretty dominant. But the 1995 Cowboys with Emmitt Smith were probably the last team with a stud RB to win it all. So essentially since 1999 teams with "okay" starting running backs have won it all.



Year

Team

Starting Running Back(s)









1995

Cowboys

Smith


1996

Packers

Levens


1997

Broncos

Terrell Davis


1998

Broncos

Terrell Davis


1999

Rams

Marshall Faulk


2000

Ravens

Jamal Lewis


2001

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2002

Bucs

Alstott


2003

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2004

Pats

Kevin Faulk


2005

Steelers

Parker, Bettis (end of Career)


2006

Colts

Addai


2007

Giants

Bradshaw, Jacobs


2008

Steelers

Parker, Moore


2009

Saints

Bush


2010

Packers

Starks


2011

Giants

Bradshaw, Jacobs


2012

Ravens

Rice


2013

Seahawks

Marshawn Lynch


2014

Pats

James White, Blount


2015

Broncos

Anderson, Hillman


2016

Pats

James White, Blount


2017

Eagles

Blount, Ajayi



I mean look at the RB's the Pats have won their five Superbowls with ...

Lol. You could probably argue that since 2000, Willie Parker is the best RB on that list.

[86WARD]

technically it was Marcus Allen , he was years ahead of his time ...

He is the first RB I recall splitting out wide and being successful at it ..

Roger Craig was no slouch.

[polamalubeast]

1062754391973863425


1062738075007119360

31 PPG for the Steelers this year....

And LOL at you...The steelers have a WR number 2(JuJu) and a number 1 RB(Conner)...The only thing that this offense have not right now is a number 3 WR...

[AtlantaDan]

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUOwGnuFfSCHEFHU8U/giphy.gif

[tube517]

1062804000670711809