Post-Trade Deadline Tweet Offers Some Context On 2015 First-Round Draft Picks

[polamalubeast]

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1057410006537003008

[Mojouw]

That's a list of failed promise and some dudes that are already on their way out.


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[BlackAndGold]

Landon Collins is the only one on that list I would place over Dupree.

[polamalubeast]

Landon Collins is the only one on that list I would place over Dupree.

That means that Dupree's pick is not disastrous as many could think.

This is not a great pick, far from it, but it's not as if the steelers had the chance to pick several pro bowl caliber players.

[Mojouw]

That means that Dupree's pick is not disastrous as many could think.

This is not a great pick, far from it, but it's not as if the steelers had the chance to pick several pro bowl caliber players.

Exactly. He picks up a sack every other game or so and is at worst league average at other LB skills.

Take a look at the edge rusher class from 2015 sorted on sacks: http://pfref.com/tiny/Hhs9f

(http://pfref.com/tiny/Hhs9f)Danielle Hunter is clearly a far better player and draft pick, but does he do LB stuff? His spider pizza web says he COULD -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/danielle-hunter

For me, Hunter will be the one who got away in that draft. MAYBE the guy picked right after Dupree, Shane Ray. But other than that -- they might have ended up with the 3rd best OLB in the class. Doesn't mean that Dupree can not be improved upon or he should be automatically resigned to a big $$$ deal -- but when looked at in a realistic context, what are you gonna do? Dupree might have actually been the best guy not named Hunter available. As staggering as that concept may be...

[teegre]

Exactly. He picks up a sack every other game or so and is at worst league average at other LB skills.

Take a look at the edge rusher class from 2015 sorted on sacks: http://pfref.com/tiny/Hhs9f

(http://pfref.com/tiny/Hhs9f)Danielle Hunter is clearly a far better player and draft pick, but does he do LB stuff? His spider pizza web says he COULD -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/danielle-hunter

For me, Hunter will be the one who got away in that draft. MAYBE the guy picked right after Dupree, Shane Ray. But other than that -- they might have ended up with the 3rd best OLB in the class. Doesn't mean that Dupree can not be improved upon or he should be automatically resigned to a big $$$ deal -- but when looked at in a realistic context, what are you gonna do? Dupree might have actually been the best guy not named Hunter available. As staggering as that concept may be...

Danielle Hunter was my guy in R2.

http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/dinner-takes-all-meals-influence-the-2015-nfl-draft/

In hindsight, I’d have been fine with him in R1.

[Mojouw]

Danielle Hunter was my guy in R2.

http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/dinner-takes-all-meals-influence-the-2015-nfl-draft/

In hindsight, I’d have been fine with him in R1.

I remember you and others were really arguing hard for Hunter. I think too many 3-4 teams didn't like his work in space and against the run. I dunno -- dude can rush the passer!

[pczach]

Dupree has one more sack this year than Dante Fowler. The Jags got a third and a fifth for him in the trade. That's a pretty big name with a ton of talent that has not produced much more than Dupree. Fowler has been underachieving this year.

Dupree's sacks have been going up every year. Not big numbers, but he's on pace for about 8 sacks this year. They could have done worse. Is it what everyone hoped for? Of course not....but he's not a stiff. He's an athletic guy that has shown some improvement. He needs to find the level he played at against the Browns, and do it consistently. If he can continue to improve, he will be considered much more than many want to give him credit for.

We as fans want every pick to be a homerun.....to be a superstar. The reality is that it is impossible to do that.

Let's hope he continues to get better, and he becomes closer to the player they thought they drafted a few years ago.

[teegre]

I remember you and others were really arguing hard for Hunter. I think too many 3-4 teams didn't like his work in space and against the run. I dunno -- dude can rush the passer!

:nod: Yep

That was indeed the rationale behind people not liking Hunter (and, they weren’t necessarily wrong). Hunter was a freak pass-rusher, but wasn’t asked to do much against the run. Sort of like Bruce Irvin.

Still, my contention was that Hunter could harass a QB on any given pass play... which, in a passing league, is about 75% of the snaps.

[Mojouw]

Dupree has one more sack this year than Dante Fowler. The Jags got a third and a fifth for him in the trade. That's a pretty big name with a ton of talent that has not produced much more than Dupree. Fowler has been underachieving this year.

Dupree's sacks have been going up every year. Not big numbers, but he's on pace for about 8 sacks this year. They could have done worse. Is it what everyone hoped for? Of course not....but he's not a stiff. He's an athletic guy that has shown some improvement. He needs to find the level he played at against the Browns, and do it consistently. If he can continue to improve, he will be considered much more than many want to give him credit for.

We as fans want every pick to be a homerun.....to be a superstar. The reality is that it is impossible to do that.

Let's hope he continues to get better, and he becomes closer to the player they thought they drafted a few years ago.


:nod: Yep

That was indeed the rationale behind people not liking Hunter (and, they weren’t necessarily wrong). Hunter was a freak pass-rusher, but wasn’t asked to do much against the run. Sort of like Bruce Irvin.

Still, my contention was that Hunter could harass a QB on any given pass play... which, in a passing league, is about 75% of the snaps.

These two posts point out, for me, the bottom line reality about Dupree.

Dupree, in theory, gives you the ability to rush the passer and do OLB things. Hunter provides just the pass rush.

However, at this point, we need to admit what Dupree is as a pass rusher. He is an electric athlete that can get to the QB through scheme. He needs to be in a stunt or on a delay or schemed into a free rush position. That allows him to win and create pressure. Polamalu Beast posted a breakdown from Baldinger that showed this really well. Dupree can execute when he doesn't have to take on the OT directly. When asked to do that he is not very good. Hunter is a contrast. He can beat an OT all on his own. But he doesn't, unless Vikings watchers can offer a corrective, do much else all that well.

As Teegre said, I would prefer the guy who can just line up and beat his man in the pass rush. Dupree just isn't ever going to be that guy. Honestly, not a defense of Dupree, but how many DE/OLBs truly are that guy? Maybe 10-12 guys across the entire league? More? Less? I don't know, but they certainly don't grow on trees.

[pepsyman1]

Dupree has one more sack this year than Dante Fowler. The Jags got a third and a fifth for him in the trade. That's a pretty big name with a ton of talent that has not produced much more than Dupree. Fowler has been underachieving this year.

Dupree's sacks have been going up every year. Not big numbers, but he's on pace for about 8 sacks this year. They could have done worse. Is it what everyone hoped for? Of course not....but he's not a stiff. He's an athletic guy that has shown some improvement. He needs to find the level he played at against the Browns, and do it consistently. If he can continue to improve, he will be considered much more than many want to give him credit for.

We as fans want every pick to be a homerun.....to be a superstar. The reality is that it is impossible to do that.

Let's hope he continues to get better, and he becomes closer to the player they thought they drafted a few years ago.

If Dupree plays with the aggression and effort we saw Sunday against the Browns on a consistent basis, I would consider it to be a successful draft pick. He played hard, suddenly seemed to find some strength moving the guy in front of him (sorely lacking in the past) and made an impact.

[teegre]

If Dupree plays with the aggression and effort we saw Sunday against the Browns on a consistent basis, I would consider it to be a successful draft pick. He played hard, suddenly seemed to find some strength moving the guy in front of him (sorely lacking in the past) and made an impact.

If Dupree can stop running past the QB, he’d have 12-15 sacks/season. This last game, he slowed down a tad... and got a lot more pressure on the QB.

[teegre]

As “bad” as the Dupree pick may have been, look at the 2015 Packers draft:


1. Damarious Randall - traded
2. Quinten Rollins - IR
3. Ty Montgomery - traded
4. Jake Ryan - IR
5. Brett Hundley - traded
6. Aaron Ripkowski - released
6. Christian Ringo - released
6. Kennard Backman - released

:scared:

[teegre]

Picks taken before Dupree in the 2015 draft. That’s 12 teams who basically got nothing with their pick.


1 Winston - meh
2 Mariota - meh
3 Fowler - traded
4 Cooper - traded
7 Kevin White - bust
9 Ereck Flowers - bust
12 Danny Shelton - traded
14 DeVante Parker - bust
16 Kevin Johnson - meh
18 Marcus Peters - traded
19 Cameron Erving - traded
21 Cedric Ogbuehi - meh

[Mojouw]

As “bad” as the Dupree pick may have been, look at the 2015 Packers draft:


1. Damarious Randall - traded
2. Quinten Rollins - IR
3. Ty Montgomery - traded
4. Jake Ryan - IR
5. Brett Hundley - traded
6. Aaron Ripkowski - released
6. Christian Ringo - released
6. Kennard Backman - released

:scared:

Or this Patriots murderers row - https://www.masslive.com/expo/erry-2018/05/b089bdafd42675/regrading_patriots_2015_draft.html

Another rogues gallery of suck -- https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2018/6/8/17441946/grading-ravens-15-draft-nfl-breshad-perriman-maxx-williams-carl-davis-jameis-winston-marcus-mariota

It might just be that 2015 was one of those just "meh" draft classes overall. I can not remember how it was being talked about overall prior to draft weekend, but it certainly has ended up being underwhelming across the league.

The Pack, Pats, Ravens, and Steelers are generally regarded as teams that have this whole draft thing somewhat figured out...and they all sorta blew it.

[st33lersguy]

Picks taken before Dupree in the 2015 draft. That’s 12 teams who basically got nothing with their pick.


1 Winston - meh
2 Mariota - meh
3 Fowler - traded
4 Cooper - traded
7 Kevin White - bust
9 Ereck Flowers - bust
12 Danny Shelton - traded
14 DeVante Parker - bust
16 Kevin Johnson - meh
18 Marcus Peters - traded
19 Cameron Erving - traded
21 Cedric Ogbuehi - meh

Wasn't Marcus Peters a pro bowler though? And isn't the Kansas City Chiefs defense currently a dumpster fire without Peters?

- - - Updated - - -

2015 draft class is looking bad though that doesn't make the Bud Dupree pick inherently better. You never want to justify bad behavior by pointing at other bad behavior. In hindsight, Landon Collins was probably the better choice

[BlackAndGold]

Wasn't Marcus Peters a pro bowler though? And isn't the Kansas City Chiefs defense currently a dumpster fire without Peters?

Peters is looking more like Artie Burns than a Pro Bowler this year.

He's one hell of a ball hawk(not this year) but his coverage skills as a corner have always been overrated.

[teegre]

Wasn't Marcus Peters a pro bowler though? And isn't the Kansas City Chiefs defense currently a dumpster fire without Peters?

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2015 draft class is looking bad though that doesn't make the Bud Dupree pick inherently better. You never want to justify bad behavior by pointing at other bad behavior. In hindsight, Landon Collins was probably the better choice

My point is that 12 of the first 21 picks aren’t playing very well (or even playing at all) for the team which drafted them. Some are underperforming, some have been benched, and some were traded. In other words, only 9 teams in the top 21 picks feel “good” about who they drafted.

In hindsight, Yes, Collins would have been a better pick. That’s the beauty of looking back at drafts: we all can make the “correct” picks four years later. Sure, it would have been great to have drafted like this:
R1: Landon Collins
R2: David Johnson (or, Markus Golden)
R3: Danielle Hunter

I’d say that the Vikings were the only team who had a good draft that year. Because, as MojoUW mentioned, the entire 2015 draft was weak, with only 1/3 of the R1 picks doing much of anything; it was a crapshoot, with 2/3 of the teams crapping out. But, Yes, the Steelers “could” have drafted Collins.

It should be noted that Tomlin tried like crazy to trade up to 33 for Landon Collins, but it simply didn’t happen. The Shamarko trade (in 2014) killed that. Ouch. (see: below)

http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/they-might-be-giants-but-could-have-been-steelers/

[Butch]

My point is that 12 of the first 21 picks aren’t playing very well (or even playing at all) for the team which drafted them. Some are underperforming, some have been benched, and some were traded. In other words, only 9 teams in the top 21 picks feel “good” about who they drafted.

In hindsight, Yes, Collins would have been a better pick. That’s the beauty of looking back at drafts: we all can make the “correct” picks four years later. Sure, it would have been great to have drafted like this:
R1: Landon Collins
R2: David Johnson (or, Markus Golden)
R3: Danielle Hunter

I’d say that the Vikings were the only team who had a good draft that year. Because, as MojoUW mentioned, the entire 2015 draft was weak, with only 1/3 of the R1 picks doing much of anything; it was a crapshoot, with 2/3 of the teams crapping out. But, Yes, the Steelers “could” have drafted Collins.

It should be noted that Tomlin tried like crazy to trade up to 33 for Landon Collins, but it simply didn’t happen. The Shamarko trade (in 2014) killed that. Ouch. (see: below)

http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/they-might-be-giants-but-could-have-been-steelers/

I love that article, and he is right about the trades being in favor of the g-men. That being said we got them to go after Eli instead of taking Ben. I think when it comes to trading with the g-men we got the better deal.

[86WARD]

Peters is looking more like Artie Burns than a Pro Bowler this year.

He's one hell of a ball hawk(not this year) but his coverage skills as a corner have always been overrated.

Losing Talib across from him hurts and I believe he is hampered with injuries. But he’s not close to the Chiefs version of himself.