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View Full Version : The 1-2-1 Steelers With No Identity



Cyphon25
10-01-2018, 08:12 AM
I was born in 85 so didn't see the teams of the 80's a lot of fans will tell you is their worst Steelers experience. We have had some off years and disappointments since I have been watching but never did I feel hopeless towards the teams chances. That changed last night. This is easily the worst Steelers team I have ever watched and I was trying to put my finger on exactly why. Before you rip my head off let me explain why I was trying to figure it out. I know the obvious answers like poor coaching, lack of discipline, and lack of talent. All of that definitely has some truth to it but that it still didn't feel right. Remember, this is more or less the same team that went 13-3 just last year. We lost Bell but Conner is a solid replacement and we upgraded somewhat on defense by getting rid of Mitchell and Spence and adding Bostic. On the whole I'd say we came out just about even on gains and losses. So my initial thought was "how can I feel hopeless about a team with the potential to be a 13-3 team"? Then I remembered how I felt last year.

We put up crazy sack numbers and went 13-3 but I remember talking to people and pointing out how we never felt like a dominant defense and that this 13-3 team wasn't nearly as fun to watch as some of our 8-8 or 10-6 teams from the 2000's or even in the 90's. So what the hell is the problem? We have absolutely no identity as a team anymore. If you ask any Steelers fan about previous teams it wouldn't take more than a second to give an answer on the identity of those other teams. Grind the clock offenses and smash mouth defenses who played with an attitude. Now just because that worked doesn't mean it has to be our teams identity but the problem is there isn't any identifying characteristic for this team. We like to believe we have this high powered offense but how often have we watched them sputter to a standstill in the last few years including putting up 0's in each of the last 2 games 2nd halfs? We know the defense has been bad so there is no identity there outside of being consistently bad.

In the past we had a team. Whether they were 6-10 or 12-4 you knew the product you were getting. There were some ups and downs like with any team but you always knew the type of game they would play and you always had hope they could win. What we have now is a collection of players that form a 22 man roster, not a team. Bell flat out quit on the Steelers, Ben has wanted to retire for 3 years, AB seems as concerned about the media and if they care about his feelings as he does with his on the field production, and our coaches don't seem to have a clue on how to fix any of it. 3 times in 4 games we have had penalties for having 12 men on the field. It is amateur hour out there.

So what will get in the Falcons game. Every thing out there tells me it will be a score of 57-54 or some crazy number like that but will our offense even show up? Will the defense surprise us and play well like they do on the very rare occasion? We just have no idea because this team has no damn identity at all. There is no attitude, no want to, no......anything. So yeah, coaching is an issue, talent is an issue (although a slightly overblown one IMO), and discipline is an issue but for me it goes beyond that. This is 53 players wearing Steelers jerseys. This isn't the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Craic
10-01-2018, 10:59 AM
I'm not sure I agree with the second half of the second to the last paragraph but other than that, I'd say you have the gist of the problem. Of course, since you're too young to remember the 80s, I have to ask, do you remember 2003? Talk about feeling helpless. That year, the Steelers went 2-2 only to drop the next four games straight. They finished the year playing .500 ball to end with a 6-10 record.

Of course, then there was that single game the year before that seemed a harbinger of the following year. Playing the expansion team Texans, the Steelers lost 24-6. Houston's QB completed 3 passes on 10 attempts for 22 yards. Their best RB gained 19 yards. None of them had a TD. Instead, the Steelers gave the Texans three TDs on two pick-sixes and a fumble return.

Man, that 2002 season, even though we were 10-5-1, just didn't feel right, and the following season was horrible.

Edman
10-01-2018, 11:00 AM
I made a bold prediction that the 2018 Steelers would disappoint, and its turning out to be the case. Even after winning in Tampa I wasn't impressed with the team, the offense was shut out in the second half, and somehow Ben wins AFC OPoW. I guess there was someone who just couldn't do better. Even in 2013, that team lacked talent but had a ton of heart to compete. The 2013 team finished 8-8 and wasn't great, but they fought hard to the end. Same with the 2015 team.

Last night was the first time in a long time I've ever seen a Steelers team effectively quit. They gave up. They just wanted to get out of there and move on. Years of drama and baggage have taken their toll. The Defense has no will or fight anymore, and I honestly don't blame them. Our great HOF Quarterback stunk up the joint again, and threw in his trademark turnovers into the mix. You are absolutely right, this isn't a team anymore, they're just a collection of individuals. Cleveland looks more cohesive and competent than the Steelers do. They look more like a team.

The team has a poor foundation and is fundamentally rotten from the top down. For the past few years their talent has covered up average at best coaching. This year, the talent has fallen off and our average coaching is exposed. If there is anything I learned from the dysfunctional Cowboys teams of the 2000's, You cannot win for long on talented drama and divas. This is why T.O was regarded as a such a cancer. He trainwrecked teams. Butler should've been sent to the gallows after Jacksonville, and now we're witnessing the single most inept Steelers Defense in over 30 years.

I said the Super Bowl window shut on this squad last January, and people called me crazy. We are witnessing the ugly end of the 2010's Steelers. Ben the head diva is who he is. He isn't getting any better or younger, Bell is on his way out of town, and Brown as far as I'm concerned, can go with him. He's the diva of divas. He has his great splash plays. But we haven't won with it. It's time to consider moving on after this season. Trying to salvage this mess will only make 2019 and beyond worse, because that means changes won't be made and the same broken foundation will remain. The AFC is getting better, The Offense will remain inconsistent, The Defense will stay horrible, the drama will continue, it's time to move on. Tomlin will keep his job, but Fichtner, Porter, and Butler need to go.

The Steelers' run is over. This is a team in transition from here on. Buckle in, because its going to be ugly.

Steeldude
10-01-2018, 11:11 AM
The Steelers need to rebuild. They won't be able to do that until Tomlin is gone.

BlackAndGold
10-01-2018, 11:13 AM
The Steelers' run is over. This is a team in transition from here on. Buckle in, because its going to be ugly.

I'm usually a optimistic fan but this is a hard truth that we all may have to accept. Every era has to end, we're starting to see it.

Steelerschik
10-01-2018, 11:14 AM
I made a bold prediction that the 2018 Steelers would disappoint, and its turning out to be the case. Even after winning in Tampa I wasn't impressed with the team, the offense was shut out in the second half, and somehow Ben wins AFC OPoW. I guess there was someone who just couldn't do better. Even in 2013, that team lacked talent but had a ton of heart to compete. The 2013 team finished 8-8 and wasn't great, but they fought hard to the end. Same with the 2015 team.

Last night was the first time in a long time I've ever seen a Steelers team effectively quit. They gave up. They just wanted to get out of there and move on. Years of drama and baggage have taken their toll. The Defense has no will or fight anymore, and I honestly don't blame them. Our great HOF Quarterback stunk up the joint again, and threw in his trademark turnovers into the mix. You are absolutely right, this isn't a team anymore, they're just a collection of individuals. Cleveland looks more cohesive and competent than the Steelers do. They look more like a team.

The team has a poor foundation and is fundamentally rotten from the top down. For the past few years their talent has covered up average at best coaching. This year, the talent has fallen off and our average coaching is exposed. If there is anything I learned from the dysfunctional Cowboys teams of the 2000's, You cannot win for long on drama and divas. Butler should've been sent to the gallows after Jacksonville, and now we're witnessing the single most inept Steelers Defense in over 30 years.

I said the Super Bowl window shut on this squad last January, and people called me crazy. We are witnessing the ugly end of the 2010's Steelers. Ben is who he is. He isn't getting any better or younger, Bell is on his way out of town, and Brown as far as I'm concerned, can go with him. He has his great splash plays. But we haven't won with it. It's time to consider moving on after this season. Trying to salvage this mess will only make 2019 and beyond worse, because that means changes won't be made and the same broken foundation will remain. The AFC is getting better, The Offense will remain inconsistent, The Defense will stay horrible, the drama will continue, it's time to move on. Tomlin will keep his job, but Fichtner, and Butler need to go.

The Steelers' run is over. This is a team in transition from here on. Buckle in, because its going to be ugly.

LOL I had to comment on this. While you seem to be aiming in the correct prediction range, I made the bold prediction that this is our year. Of course I say that every year. I'm 52 and I've seen the great, the rotten and the fugly and everything in between. I'd like to believe in my own little rainbows and unicorns world it's only up from here. I hate being wrong.

st33lersguy
10-01-2018, 12:05 PM
I really hope that serious changes are made and we get an improvement from 2018 to 2019 that is similar from the improvements from 2003 to 2004. In that time they got new coordinators, Whisenhunt and LeBeau, drafted a young excited rookie in Ben, and saw Troy P step up and go from an unimpressive rookie season to an amazing 2nd season and the start of a hall of fame career. Something similar will need to happen here. Hopefully a new batch of young coordinators can yield better systems and new players can breathe life into this team. Then maybe 2019 they can back to form

86WARD
10-01-2018, 12:42 PM
I really hope that serious changes are made and we get an improvement from 2018 to 2019 that is similar from the improvements from 2003 to 2004. In that time they got new coordinators, Whisenhunt and LeBeau, drafted a young excited rookie in Ben, and saw Troy P step up and go from an unimpressive rookie season to an amazing 2nd season and the start of a hall of fame career. Something similar will need to happen here. Hopefully a new batch of young coordinators can yield better systems and new players can breathe life into this team. Then maybe 2019 they can back to form

The talent is not there on defense for that improvement to happen that quickly...

DesertSteel
10-01-2018, 01:57 PM
The talent is not there on defense for that improvement to happen that quickly...
They're always out of place. It's really hard to read whether there's no talent, other than the guy with the ballcap and headset standing on the sideline.

Mojouw
10-01-2018, 02:23 PM
They're always out of place. It's really hard to read whether there's no talent, other than the guy with the ballcap and headset standing on the sideline.

That's the sad thing. From what I saw last night, more often than not - the players were being put in the "proper" positions. They just can't do the assignments at an NFL level. Sensabaugh and Berhe can't keep up and Edmunds is mentally below the mark, likely because he is a rookie.

The rest is the Ravens just being really clever with how the isolated TEs on guys that can't cover their TEs. Happened over and over again.

If you stay in base all night, you are going to get TEs on Lbs and slot CBs that can't hang.

Fire Goodell
10-01-2018, 02:24 PM
As I told my friend yesterday, "Time to embrace the suck"

The Steelers' championship window is over, and ended with Shazier going down last year. Yes, the defense wasn't great when he was still here, but he made enough impact plays to where it covered up a lot of our deficiencies. There's no playmakers on defense, and that's the truth of the matter. Heyward is solid but not what I'd call an impact player. Tuitt is a pretender that is still living on the coat tails of a strong 2nd season that he's been unable to replicate so far. Dupree, yeah we know about that guy. And TJ Watt is nothing more than a solid player, but he's not going to be a star. He lacks both elite level strength or speed to really beat the tackle, his sacks seem to come from hustle when coverage makes the QB hold on to the ball a second or 2 longer. He's definitely got heart and hustle but imo not elite level ability.

Outside of Haden there's nobody good on the secondary. It is what it is. We knew our defense wouldn't be great this year. But to show no improvement, or maybe even a regression since then? Keith Butler needs to go.

IMO, the organization already screwed the pooch when they gave into Roethlisberger's demands of getting rid of Haley. Yeah we know those 2 don't like each other, but at the same time, nobody on the Patriots*** like Billy B either. However they win games. Your coach isn't supposed to be your buddy. What we have now is an offense that isn't on the same page and is predictable as hell with the play calling. I know I called out Haley with his play calling at times but holy crap Fitch is 10x worse. And how the heck are AB and Ben so out of sync? For a duo that has been untouchable for years, this is extremely concerning. All in all, trying to keep our QB happy by giving him a coordinator he could be buddy buddy with, well we're seeing the results on the field. Ben wants to be the one running the offense, but he's not a student of the game like Peyton Manning. Recipe for disaster imo.

Now we're left with a mess which I'm not sure the FO will be able to fix for a very long time. Tomlin is the one hiring these position coaches / coordinators who obviously are performing below the line, so does he have to shoulder a lot of the blame?

Cyphon25
10-01-2018, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure I agree with the second half of the second to the last paragraph but other than that, I'd say you have the gist of the problem. Of course, since you're too young to remember the 80s, I have to ask, do you remember 2003? Talk about feeling helpless. That year, the Steelers went 2-2 only to drop the next four games straight. They finished the year playing .500 ball to end with a 6-10 record.

The commentary on Ben and them? Yeah, it was somewhat of an exaggeration on my part but I also think there is some truth in it. I believe these guys in general want to play and want to win but it doesn't always feel like they love the game anymore as they do it if that makes sense.

As for 2003 I sort of rememeber and actually mentioned that 6-10 record in my post, just without the year to go with it. Maybe I am thinking of when Ben came in 2004 and beyond but I don't remember feeling hopeless in 2003 but maybe I did at the time. I was younger than and more optimistic as well lol.

I just know as my memory sits today and I can't remember ever feeling less interested and inspired by the Steelers. Part of it too might just be that there aren't a lot of players I love. At one point I liked damn near all 22 starters on the roster when you starting talking about Hampton, Smith, Farrior, Porter, Polamalu, Clark, etc....Now I can name like 3 starters who I would buy a jersey for.

Edman
10-01-2018, 08:58 PM
Yeah we know those 2 don't like each other, but at the same time, nobody on the Patriots*** like Billy B either.

Terry Bradshaw and Chuck Noll hated each others' guts to the point the bad blood spilled over into Terry not attending Chuck's funeral years later.

Four Championships between them.

Mojouw
10-01-2018, 09:04 PM
I can't get too worked up over Haley being ushered out. Everywhere he has gone, he has left a trail of burnt bridges and bad feelings. Dude is just an abrasive jerk. An NFL team is a workplace, a bizarre one, but a workplace. Haley uses up his welcome everywhere he goes.

He'll be out in Cleveland in no less than 4 years. No way him and Baker get along for more than that.

Steeler-in-west
10-01-2018, 09:18 PM
Terry Bradshaw and Chuck Noll hated each others' guts to the point the bad blood spilled over into Terry not attending Chuck's funeral years later.

Four Championships between them.

i think the hate and resentment was coming mostly from Terry.

Getting back to Ben, yeah, seems he needs an OC that won’t take any BS. Maybe they all do - i.e. not enough leaders on this team.

Craic
10-02-2018, 12:13 AM
The commentary on Ben and them? Yeah, it was somewhat of an exaggeration on my part but I also think there is some truth in it. I believe these guys in general want to play and want to win but it doesn't always feel like they love the game anymore as they do it if that makes sense.

As for 2003 I sort of rememeber and actually mentioned that 6-10 record in my post, just without the year to go with it. Maybe I am thinking of when Ben came in 2004 and beyond but I don't remember feeling hopeless in 2003 but maybe I did at the time. I was younger than and more optimistic as well lol.

I just know as my memory sits today and I can't remember ever feeling less interested and inspired by the Steelers. Part of it too might just be that there aren't a lot of players I love. At one point I liked damn near all 22 starters on the roster when you starting talking about Hampton, Smith, Farrior, Porter, Polamalu, Clark, etc....Now I can name like 3 starters who I would buy a jersey for.

In all honesty (and not being snarky at all), that' a matter of age. It seems as though you're just beginning to run into the eye-opening fact of life that a next generation will always replace the generation you love in a given medium. I remember the first time I ran into that . . . it was when Johnny Carson left the Tonight Show. Shortly thereafter, several other entertainment changes/deaths occurred, and it just seems like the world shifted a bit. Talking about football, I remember watch the Steelers on MNF and someone held up a sign that said, "The Steel Curtain's a' Hurtin'." The announcers went on to talk about the age of the front four (and most of the defense), and how they'd all be out of football in just a little while. I couldn't believe it.

IMO, when you recognize that, it's the first step in getting old (and usually, it comes somewhere around the mid-twenties).

OF course, for Steelers fans back then, we had the Mark Malone and Bubby Brister days. Yeah, this is nothing​! I fully expect that no matter the issue this year, next year we will be back in playoff contention (and heck, we still may end up in playoff contention this year).

Edman
10-02-2018, 12:36 AM
I really hope that serious changes are made and we get an improvement from 2018 to 2019 that is similar from the improvements from 2003 to 2004. In that time they got new coordinators, Whisenhunt and LeBeau, drafted a young excited rookie in Ben, and saw Troy P step up and go from an unimpressive rookie season to an amazing 2nd season and the start of a hall of fame career. Something similar will need to happen here. Hopefully a new batch of young coordinators can yield better systems and new players can breathe life into this team. Then maybe 2019 they can back to form

Transitions don't happen in one year. I give it at least until 2020 that this team is back in even remotely competitive shape again.

I believe The Steelers are past the point of 1-2 players away from a championship. That boat sailed two years ago. The time to strike for #7 was 2016-2017, and they blew it. This team is only going to trend downward in all aspects for the next few years if things persist as they are, to the point where rebuilding will take even longer. Keeping Jeeves Buttler set this team back 1-2 years on Defense. The Defense is in absolute shambles.

When the Defense got old in 2012, they wasted little time letting guys go started re-building. Except back then, Ben was in his Early 30's and still playing at a relatively high level and had quite a few years ahead of him. Now he's 36. He's getting slower, and his accuracy has gone to shit. With Haley gone, Ben isn't going to get any better. What we're seeing this year is what we're going to get from here on. Erratic play in games where sometimes Ben is on fire, and others where he is horrid, like last night, stretches like the Chiefs and Bucs games, and against Cleveland.

The team's foundation is a mess and unsustainable. It's going to take a lot of house cleaning to fix it. Even if it means having to let go of some longtime staples. Coordinators and coaches have to go. Some vets have to go as well.

I think the Steelers overall right now are in a very bad place that many of us don't like. It's persist with this mess and regress into awfulness for years, or implode and move on to the next era. As far as I'm concerned, this team hit its ceiling and is on the verge of collapsing, and its better off in the long run to blow it up before it inevitably gets even worse.

cold-hard-steel
10-02-2018, 07:40 AM
Yeah,it's just so sad and disheartening to know that there has been no team in the history of the NFL that started the season 0-4 or 1-3 or 1-2-1 that ever made it to the Super Bowl or deep into the play offs. I hate knowing that no team can ever turn their season around after 4 games and make something of their season.Man i hate IT !!!!!!!

86WARD
10-02-2018, 08:45 AM
I can't get too worked up over Haley being ushered out. Everywhere he has gone, he has left a trail of burnt bridges and bad feelings. Dude is just an abrasive jerk. An NFL team is a workplace, a bizarre one, but a workplace. Haley uses up his welcome everywhere he goes.

He'll be out in Cleveland in no less than 4 years. No way him and Baker get along for more than that.

The way the coaching carousel is in the NFL that’s not really that surprising...

Dwinsgames
10-02-2018, 09:14 AM
An NFL team is a workplace


I used this point in the anthem thread ...

Mojouw
10-02-2018, 09:17 AM
Yes, you did. I don't think anyone stated it wasn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ALLD
10-02-2018, 06:03 PM
I have not been watching the games, but have seen the scores online. My handle is ALLD or All Defense. The 2018 seems like theirs could be NOD.

st33lersguy
10-02-2018, 09:15 PM
At this point the best case scenario is they do poorly enough to end up with a dynamic talent like Devin White or Clelin Ferrell in the draft. This defense needs a star tone setter on it. Frankly a playoff berth does them no good, it keeps the illusion that everything is fine when it isn't and that no change needs to be made when it truly does, not to mention, they are prime fodder to go one-and-done, and then picking 21-24 they'll just end up settling for some athlete who has no actual football playing ability that the coaching staff won't coach up, and of course going 8-7-1 and picking 17-20 is useless.

ALLD
10-03-2018, 02:23 PM
When Dan Rooney passed away the team lost one of its most important intangibles. Team is a long way from their last SB win with Cowher's players.