My solution to fix things in Pittsburgh

[Renegade]

Hello, Sportsfans!

This was a really tough loss. Losing doesn't bother me as much as the way our Steelers lost. No fight, no care, boredom... Ravens using a west-coast style strategy to maintain the clock in the second half. By the way... This is the 4th straight game in which the Steelers started the 2nd half of a game against the Ravens with the football and did nothing. (Christmas day, Ben got picked... In Baltimore last year, Ben got picked... AFC North clincher last year... punt.) Of course the difference in all of those games compared to this one was that Le'veon Bell was in a Steeler uniform and in those games he scored 7 Touchdowns combined... The Steelers won all 3. They need him bad.

But considering the days of the beautiful Bell ringing loudly in the ears of those Ratbirds are more than likely a beautiful shadow of a not-so-distant past never to rise again, here is my solution to the mess in the 'Burgh.

1. Don't panic. It is very early. That tie in Cleveland was not a loss. It will help us ultimately (A loss can never be taken away).
2. Change the play calling. As I said in another post, the play calling and really the whole offensive game plan is shaped around a Bell-like figure whom the steelers dont have. (Dump offs, draws, stretch plays). These will not work with Connor and Switzer. Ben needs to go no huddle and call the plays at the line of scrimmage. There is no way that was all him on Sunday night. The plays were too bad for that to be all him. That had to be some Randy Fictner in there. Defensively, they need to be more aggressive and get in the QB's face. That puts pressure on the secondary but, Terrell Edmonds, Haden, and Burnet will be fine. I like Hilton too.
3. Get a power Running back. Steelers havent had this in a long, long, long, time. You can't be physical if you don't have this implemented.They have the physical QB, violent offensive and defensive lines, aggressive players in the secondary (the fact that they are not good is another matter). They need a big bruising running back like a Marshawn Lynch or Blount. Going back to the 2010 season, this is something they have lacked every year. I'm tired of seeing scrawny folks getting thrown back by a defender after a 1 yard gain or a 2 yard loss (I myself am 6-2 and 270ish and really should try out!)
4. (This is most important) CHANGE THE DRAFT STRATEGY!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember when Ben said of drafting Mason Rudolph "I don't see how that helps us win now" ?!? Everyone flipped out (not us, but the media). And Ben was absolutely right. The Steelers need to draft the polished star that is the best player currently on the table. This is the Ravens strategy when it comes to their defense (and everything else really) and they produced some really mean and nasty teams reminiscent of the 1970s Steelers teams.
5. Don't be afraid of a young free agent. The Steelers front office would rather draft players than pick someone up. This is well documented but it is also self-defeating when you think of the aged receivers that they used to give Big Ben. Khalil Mack. Nothing more needs to be said. I wish the Steelers would go get someone like that.

I have ranted and I feel better. The best is yet to come in this season!
To the superbowl we go!
Jesus Saves!
-Daniel

[EzraTank]

Fire Tomlin and his coaches.

/THREAD.

[Count Steeler]

Play the offensive and defensive starters for at least 1 quarter in EVERY preseason game.

Fit the scheme to the personnel. Offense does not have Bell. Defense does not have Polamalu nor Shazier.

Discipline and adhering to assignments will win more games than splash.

[Cyphon25]

2. Change the play calling. As I said in another post, the play calling and really the whole offensive game plan is shaped around a Bell-like figure whom the steelers dont have. (Dump offs, draws, stretch plays). These will not work with Connor and Switzer. Ben needs to go no huddle and call the plays at the line of scrimmage. There is no way that was all him on Sunday night. The plays were too bad for that to be all him.

I agree on your bigger point but your reasoning is wrong. Conner can handle all of the responsbilities and load that Bell did but they have to actually USE him and the line has to block. The OL has just flat out not been good when it comes to run blocking. Conner had nowhere to go last night and Bell hardly would have been better. In fact if you go back to our first game vs the Ravens last year Bell had 48 yards and a 3.7 average. Hardly numbers that represent our savior.

Ben was most of the problem last night on offense and his timing with our receivers has been off. He even said as much after the game. The other problem is something I already knew coming into this season and that was that firing Haley was a bad decision. Fichtner and Ben are too close which means Ben has nobody to reign him in like Haley would. They fired Haley solely because Ben didn't like him. He didn't like him, but he needs him or someone like him.


3. Get a power Running back. Steelers havent had this in a long, long, long, time. You can't be physical if you don't have this implemented.They have the physical QB, violent offensive and defensive lines,

Conner is a power back, the problem is that the line isn't as aggressive or as good as you think they are. They haven't been good run blockers for 2 or 3 years. I agree with the idea of a power run game but you have to have the line to do it. We don't. They are better pass blockers than run blockers.


4. (This is most important) CHANGE THE DRAFT STRATEGY!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember when Ben said of drafting Mason Rudolph "I don't see how that helps us win now" ?!? Everyone flipped out (not us, but the media). And Ben was absolutely right. The Steelers need to draft the polished star that is the best player currently on the table. This is the Ravens strategy when it comes to their defense (and everything else really) and they produced some really mean and nasty teams reminiscent of the 1970s Steelers teams.
5. Don't be afraid of a young free agent. The Steelers front office would rather draft players than pick someone up. This is well documented but it is also self-defeating when you think of the aged receivers that they used to give Big Ben. Khalil Mack. Nothing more needs to be said. I wish the Steelers would go get someone like that.

IMO this is your best point. It often times feels like Steelers draft more like Al Davis and less like the Steelers of the past. They are more into SPARQ numbers and athletes than they are into football players. Burns was a track star who hardly even practiced football in college. Bud Dupree was more athlete than player. They loved Dri Archer because he ran a 4.3. They drafted Dan McCullers because he was huge. Shazier was the fastest ILB while Mosely was probably the better player coming out. Granted, Shazier worked out okay for us but still.

You have to find a balance between both. I understand they were burned on Jarvis Jones but they should have seen that coming watching him on tape.

[86WARD]

Play the offensive and defensive starters for at least 1 quarter in EVERY preseason game.

Fit the scheme to the personnel. Offense does not have Bell. Defense does not have Polamalu nor Shazier.

Discipline and adhering to assignments will win more games than splash.

They don’t have the talent. The talent they have isn’t solid talent...it’s splash worthy talent.

[Neversatisfied]

Fire Tomlin and his coaches.

/THREAD.

This!

[Dwinsgames]

ehhh

when you have 57 offensive plays and just 10 are runs ( one of which is by your slot receiver ) you are 1 dimensional & the name on the back of the primary ball carrier means NOTHING zero zilch .........

the way I seen it this team looked like they have no fight in them , they looked as though this was game 2 of a double header that the first game went 17 innings ...

we lost because Ben and AB have not been on the same page all year

we lost because we miss a ton of tackles

we lost because we cant cover in the secondary very well ( sometimes it looks like we cant cover at all )

we lost because we want to get rookie 1st round players on the field when it is clear they do not know what they are doing and are out of position ( Edmunds is talented but he is lost assignment wise )

we lost because we can not cover the seam route

we lost because we lack fire .... biggest rival at home in primetime and we were FLAT and unmotivated

we lost looking to play it safe and drop in coverage instead of attacking , when we attacked we were successful most times

we lost because our coaching staff sucks ass

lets face it folks this team has ZERO Identity on defense

lets face it if Ben is not on fire our offense has no identity

this team blows chunks right now .... we are NOT good

The Bright side ....

Ben will have better days and when he is red hot we will forget these problems !

but sadly they will not be gone and will rear their ugly heads again and again

[Mojouw]

Someone should re-watch the game and look for these things:

1. Was it really a big play whenever Berhe and Sensabaugh were on the field or did it just feel that way?

2. Did Cam Sutton successfully do anything?

3. Was Edmunds terrible all night or just when I paid attention?

All these articles can get written about the 12 men on the field penalties and we can post on here for hours and hours about this or that pet theory of each of ours. But the bottom line is this looks like a defense that can't play sub-package football because the players are not good enough. This means they stay in a base defense more often than they should. This base defense then gets exposed up the middle. Seems pretty simple to me.

[AtlantaDan]

But the bottom line is this looks like a defense that can't play sub-package football because the players are not good enough. This means they stay in a base defense more often than they should. This base defense then gets exposed up the middle. Seems pretty simple to me.

^^^^^
This

Collinsworth repeatedly emphasized that Butler was staying in a base defense and was not bringing additional pressure because he did not trust his secondary to handle anything else

[Dwinsgames]

^^^^^
This

Collinsworth repeatedly emphasized that Butler was staying in a base defense and was not bringing additional pressure because he did not trust his secondary to handle anything else


the issue I have is .....

when you are a poor cover team dropping more guys to cover ( that are also poor at it ) does nothing to help you ....

what does help or mask deficiencies is pressure and we are no longer a pressure defense , we need to blitz and blitz often but we don't ..

I call that stupidity .........

[Dwinsgames]

3. Was Edmunds terrible all night or just when I paid attention?



touched on this in another thread ...

we complain as a fan base when we do not get rookie 1st round defensive players on the field soon enough , but Edmunds is a prime example of why Lebeau held them back ...

Edmunds has athletic ability but right now he simply does not understand the scheme or his responsibilities ... isnt getting deep enough to give over the top support to his corner , playing to wide and out of position .. he is plenty fast yet gets beat by his deep / over the top responsibilities .... these are rookie mistakes and he has LOTS of them ....

[Mojouw]

^^^^^
This

Collinsworth repeatedly emphasized that Butler was staying in a base defense and was not bringing additional pressure because he did not trust his secondary to handle anything else

Which in a screwed up way is goodcoaching. Doesn't everyone always yammer on about putting guys in positions to succeed? Butler and Tomlin (don't kid yourself, Tomlin was calling some of the plays last night had a play card and everything) refused to expose themselves to Berhe and Dangerfield at all while keeping Sensabaugh and Sutton protected with safeties. The other half of that is that a good offensive line stonewalled a modest pass rush.

But the plan forced the Ravens into chaining 10-12 plays together to score and it kept them out of the endzone for the most part. Giving up 24-27 points had to actually be their goal. Figured, hey if we hold them to that - the offense can certainly hang 28-35 on them.

So, WTF happened on offense? There's your big question. Conner and Ben didn't play well in the second half. Please stop with the idea that they do not miss Bell. In this same game last year, Bell went 35 for 144 with 2 TDs. While I do not believe they NEED Bell to win, the offense certainly is missing a cylinder right now.

So an offense that is not sure what to do when they stop their first 2 options combined with a defense that can only play base and a passive version of nickel due to injury and ineffectiveness leads to a loss? What a shocker!

I think the better question is whether we all want sound solid coaching or bold coaching? Last night was sound solid coaching - protect your reserves on defense and play to not give up the big play. Bold coaching would've been to roll with Burns over Sensabaugh and hope Artie brought his big boy pants, nail Berhe to the bench and tell Thomas that "Seminole" is now a big part of the defense. I also think bold coaching would've cut Dangerfield for Allen this week and made Allen part of a "big nickel" set to combat all those TEs.

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touched on this in another thread ...

we complain as a fan base when we do not get rookie 1st round defensive players on the field soon enough , but Edmunds is a prime example of why Lebeau held them back ...

Edmunds has athletic ability but right now he simply does not understand the scheme or his responsibilities ... isnt getting deep enough to give over the top support to his corner , playing to wide and out of position .. he is plenty fast yet gets beat by his deep / over the top responsibilities .... these are rookie mistakes and he has LOTS of them ....

Oh. I TOTALLY agree. Just wanted to get outside confirmation that I wasn't just being unreasonable. Thanks for confirming you are seeing similar.

[AtlantaDan]

So, WTF happened on offense? There's your big question. Conner and Ben didn't play well in the second half. Please stop with the idea that they do not miss Bell. In this same game last year, Bell went 35 for 144 with 2 TDs. While I do not believe they NEED Bell to win, the offense certainly is missing a cylinder right now.

Not just missing Bell but the shift to a new play caller replacing Haley. IMO that is not just Ben having a strong influence on inexperienced OC Fichtner but Ben simply calling more of the plays himself.

That having been said I have no clue what has happened to the chemistry between Ben and AB unless either AB (preseason leg injury) and/or Ben (elbow at end of week one) are still nursing injuries

[Mojouw]

Some other things I do if I'm running things:

1. Berhe is out of town this week and told to enjoy his life's work, whatever it may be. Guy has no ability to cover in even sub-packages. There are enough other guys who can play on STs.

2. Dangerfield is on the same plane as Berhe. Same reasons.

3. Brian Allen is promoted from the PS and I begin the limited conversion of him from outside CB to sub-package weapon against TEs. Start him with that and expand his role as he masters things. Of course, I would've done this from the jump and multiple threads can be found where I say that Berhe and Dangerfield are pointless players on the roster.

4. I give Marcus Allen a hat on gamedays. He comes in for Bostic on some pass formations. This isn't that Bostic is bad - in fact he is not and is often in the correct place - but more that Allen may have enough juice to turn and run with some of the players that simply run away from Bostic.

5. I go outside the organization for the other roster spot. Not sure what I do with it, but I'm looking for pass rush and/or CB help.

6. I bench Sensabaugh. He just can't do the role. Maybe he is a reserve slot CB? But teams just isolate and target him whenever he is on the field. I roll with Burns, kinda like how Cowher did with early Ike Taylor. I tell Haden he has a new shadow. I want Haden in Burns ear between every defensive series.

7. Mix up my backs on offense. Use Ridley and Samuels to see if I can generate some mismatches.

8. Maybe Ben has to actually practice some? Veteran, leader, and blah blah...but his timing with guys is crap right now.

9. Thomas sees the field as a sub-package guy and maybe even a rotational pass rusher. I need the athleticism somewhere on defense, even if just as a gimmick.

I got more, but those are the big ones. It usually takes 4-5 weeks for an offensive line to gel. So I'll just assume the run blocking comes together.

[steel striker]

The one thing that was working in the first half over the middle passing to Mcdonald and, in the second half none.

[Renegade]

I agree on your bigger point but your reasoning is wrong. Conner can handle all of the responsbilities and load that Bell did but they have to actually USE him and the line has to block. The OL has just flat out not been good when it comes to run blocking. Conner had nowhere to go last night and Bell hardly would have been better. In fact if you go back to our first game vs the Ravens last year Bell had 48 yards and a 3.7 average. Hardly numbers that represent our savior.

Ben was most of the problem last night on offense and his timing with our receivers has been off. He even said as much after the game. The other problem is something I already knew coming into this season and that was that firing Haley was a bad decision. Fichtner and Ben are too close which means Ben has nobody to reign him in like Haley would. They fired Haley solely because Ben didn't like him. He didn't like him, but he needs him or someone like him.



Conner is a power back, the problem is that the line isn't as aggressive or as good as you think they are. They haven't been good run blockers for 2 or 3 years. I agree with the idea of a power run game but you have to have the line to do it. We don't. They are better pass blockers than run blockers.



IMO this is your best point. It often times feels like Steelers draft more like Al Davis and less like the Steelers of the past. They are more into SPARQ numbers and athletes than they are into football players. Burns was a track star who hardly even practiced football in college. Bud Dupree was more athlete than player. They loved Dri Archer because he ran a 4.3. They drafted Dan McCullers because he was huge. Shazier was the fastest ILB while Mosely was probably the better player coming out. Granted, Shazier worked out okay for us but still.

You have to find a balance between both. I understand they were burned on Jarvis Jones but they should have seen that coming watching him on tape.

First game in baltimore last year Bell went over 100 on the ground with 2 touchdowns and we won 26-9. Connor might be a power back but not the kind of size or ferocity im thinking of. That was my fault I should have said Bettis. And Connor isnt as strong as lynch. The Steelers recent rbs arent the kind i like in a power game. Just my opinion.

[Cyphon25]

Some other things I do if I'm running things:

1. Berhe is out of town this week and told to enjoy his life's work, whatever it may be. Guy has no ability to cover in even sub-packages. There are enough other guys who can play on STs.

2. Dangerfield is on the same plane as Berhe. Same reasons.

3. Brian Allen is promoted from the PS and I begin the limited conversion of him from outside CB to sub-package weapon against TEs. Start him with that and expand his role as he masters things. Of course, I would've done this from the jump and multiple threads can be found where I say that Berhe and Dangerfield are pointless players on the roster.

4. I give Marcus Allen a hat on gamedays. He comes in for Bostic on some pass formations. This isn't that Bostic is bad - in fact he is not and is often in the correct place - but more that Allen may have enough juice to turn and run with some of the players that simply run away from Bostic.

5. I go outside the organization for the other roster spot. Not sure what I do with it, but I'm looking for pass rush and/or CB help.

6. I bench Sensabaugh. He just can't do the role. Maybe he is a reserve slot CB? But teams just isolate and target him whenever he is on the field. I roll with Burns, kinda like how Cowher did with early Ike Taylor. I tell Haden he has a new shadow. I want Haden in Burns ear between every defensive series.

7. Mix up my backs on offense. Use Ridley and Samuels to see if I can generate some mismatches.

8. Maybe Ben has to actually practice some? Veteran, leader, and blah blah...but his timing with guys is crap right now.

9. Thomas sees the field as a sub-package guy and maybe even a rotational pass rusher. I need the athleticism somewhere on defense, even if just as a gimmick.

I got more, but those are the big ones. It usually takes 4-5 weeks for an offensive line to gel. So I'll just assume the run blocking comes together.


1 and 2 I am good with. 3 and 6 are sort of part of the same conversation. Sensabaugh outplayed Brian Allen in the preseason so there is no reason to believe Allen will fix anything. He is taller than the other guys and that is it. The problem here is that nobody on the roster is the answer. We should just accept the fact that Burns is a first round bust. He was as much a track athlete as a football player coming out and the Steelers reached because it was a MAJOR need. Sensabaugh isn't any better but also isn't any worse and unless a miracle advancement happens Allen is even worse than those 2. So I guess I half agree? I mean you can bench Sensabaugh but the results will just be the same or worse. What I have noticed is that Sensabaugh makes less mental mistakes but just doesn't have any natural CB instincts, Burns has better instincts but is too dumb.

4 and 9 I would also put together. Thomas should already be rotating in for Bostic at times. The dude has some freak skills he displayed in preseason and even if he has some mental gaffes so what? The defense is nothing but mental errors. I guess following that line of thinking, don't really see an advantage to giving Allen a helmet other than there would be one availabe with Behre gone in this scenario. I would try Thomas before Allen though, no question.

5 and 8 absolutely

7 meh. I am all for not running Conner into the ground but those other guys don't necessarily offer anything extra. Samuels a little as a route runner but when he is on the field his role is somewhat obvious since he isn't a great blocker.

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First game in baltimore last year Bell went over 100 on the ground with 2 touchdowns and we won 26-9.

Sorry I had the dates reversed. It was the 2nd game when we faced Baltimore at home. He had 13 rushes for 48 yards.

Again though it is hard to truly compare because the Steelers worked their offense around Bell, they don't do that for Conner and give him the same oppurtunity.

[Steeldude]

It all comes back to Tomlin. This is his mess that he created.

[Born2Steel]

It all comes back to Tomlin. This is his mess that he created.

OK. Now it's time for you to drop us a name or two that you want to replace Tomlin. You want to offer it to Haley? Every thread you have a post saying the same thing. What is your solution if we fire Tomlin. Tomlin leaving doesn't solve anything by itself. There has to be a next step. What do you suggest? The pressure of a name.

[tube517]

Some other things I do if I'm running things:

1. Berhe is out of town this week and told to enjoy his life's work, whatever it may be. Guy has no ability to cover in even sub-packages. There are enough other guys who can play on STs.

2. Dangerfield is on the same plane as Berhe. Same reasons.

3. Brian Allen is promoted from the PS and I begin the limited conversion of him from outside CB to sub-package weapon against TEs. Start him with that and expand his role as he masters things. Of course, I would've done this from the jump and multiple threads can be found where I say that Berhe and Dangerfield are pointless players on the roster.

4. I give Marcus Allen a hat on gamedays. He comes in for Bostic on some pass formations. This isn't that Bostic is bad - in fact he is not and is often in the correct place - but more that Allen may have enough juice to turn and run with some of the players that simply run away from Bostic.

5. I go outside the organization for the other roster spot. Not sure what I do with it, but I'm looking for pass rush and/or CB help.

6. I bench Sensabaugh. He just can't do the role. Maybe he is a reserve slot CB? But teams just isolate and target him whenever he is on the field. I roll with Burns, kinda like how Cowher did with early Ike Taylor. I tell Haden he has a new shadow. I want Haden in Burns ear between every defensive series.

7. Mix up my backs on offense. Use Ridley and Samuels to see if I can generate some mismatches.

8. Maybe Ben has to actually practice some? Veteran, leader, and blah blah...but his timing with guys is crap right now.

9. Thomas sees the field as a sub-package guy and maybe even a rotational pass rusher. I need the athleticism somewhere on defense, even if just as a gimmick.

I got more, but those are the big ones. It usually takes 4-5 weeks for an offensive line to gel. So I'll just assume the run blocking comes together.

Once Ola gets off IR-DTR, activate him and get rid of Sensablake or one of the other guys mentioned above (Mr. No Respect and Berhe).

And I agree w/Brian Allen. Get that guy in the mix somewhere.

[AtlantaDan]

OK. Now it's time for you to drop us a name or two that you want to replace Tomlin. You want to offer it to Haley? Every thread you have a post saying the same thing. What is your solution if we fire Tomlin. Tomlin leaving doesn't solve anything by itself. There has to be a next step. What do you suggest? The pressure of a name.

While I have raised the possibility, I still see Tomlin surviving this season unless we see a total collapse to double digit losses

But the Steelers tradition is hiring semi-obscure young DCs - with the change to it being a league based on offense maybe AJRII mixes it up and hires a semi-obscure young OC

I have no clue but here is a preseason list of HC candidates, some of whom already may have faded as their teams had a rotten September

NFL Head Coaches-To-Be: Seven Coordinators To Watch in 2018

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/28/nfl-coordinators-to-watch-james-bettcher-matt-lafleur-george-edwards

[86WARD]

Some other things I do if I'm running things:

1. Berhe is out of town this week and told to enjoy his life's work, whatever it may be. Guy has no ability to cover in even sub-packages. There are enough other guys who can play on STs.

2. Dangerfield is on the same plane as Berhe. Same reasons.

3. Brian Allen is promoted from the PS and I begin the limited conversion of him from outside CB to sub-package weapon against TEs. Start him with that and expand his role as he masters things. Of course, I would've done this from the jump and multiple threads can be found where I say that Berhe and Dangerfield are pointless players on the roster.

4. I give Marcus Allen a hat on gamedays. He comes in for Bostic on some pass formations. This isn't that Bostic is bad - in fact he is not and is often in the correct place - but more that Allen may have enough juice to turn and run with some of the players that simply run away from Bostic.

5. I go outside the organization for the other roster spot. Not sure what I do with it, but I'm looking for pass rush and/or CB help.

6. I bench Sensabaugh. He just can't do the role. Maybe he is a reserve slot CB? But teams just isolate and target him whenever he is on the field. I roll with Burns, kinda like how Cowher did with early Ike Taylor. I tell Haden he has a new shadow. I want Haden in Burns ear between every defensive series.

7. Mix up my backs on offense. Use Ridley and Samuels to see if I can generate some mismatches.

8. Maybe Ben has to actually practice some? Veteran, leader, and blah blah...but his timing with guys is crap right now.

9. Thomas sees the field as a sub-package guy and maybe even a rotational pass rusher. I need the athleticism somewhere on defense, even if just as a gimmick.

I got more, but those are the big ones. It usually takes 4-5 weeks for an offensive line to gel. So I'll just assume the run blocking comes together.

I like all of your suggestions except for the O-Line gelling. These guys have been together long enough...they shouldn’t need 4-5 weeks to get their shit straight. Other teams don’t and neither should this group. They are big boys who have been together for quite sometime now, if one needs to shit, the others should feel the pain.

Ben and AB should be working together all day and then some...

And even though your suggestions are great and can’t hurt, they really aren’t going to help much. Edmunds will still play flat footed. Sucktton will still be very overrated in the fans eyes and Burnt is well...burnt.

[Mojouw]

OK. Now it's time for you to drop us a name or two that you want to replace Tomlin. You want to offer it to Haley? Every thread you have a post saying the same thing. What is your solution if we fire Tomlin. Tomlin leaving doesn't solve anything by itself. There has to be a next step. What do you suggest? The pressure of a name.

He doesn't have a name or a real solution to any of this. He never has.

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I like all of your suggestions except for the O-Line gelling. These guys have been together long enough...they shouldn’t need 4-5 weeks to get their shit straight. Other teams don’t and neither should this group. They are big boys who have been together for quite sometime now, if one needs to shit, the others should feel the pain.

Ben and AB should be working together all day and then some...

And even though your suggestions are great and can’t hurt, they really aren’t going to help much. Edmunds will still play flat footed. Sucktton will still be very overrated in the fans eyes and Burnt is well...burnt.

I don't personally disagree on the o-line stuff. But Bettis and other former players always talk about how each year it takes 3-5 weeks for the line to come together. That's where that is coming from.

Again, take it for it is worth.

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While I have raised the possibility, I still see Tomlin surviving this season unless we see a total collapse to double digit losses

But the Steelers tradition is hiring semi-obscure young DCs - with the change to it being a league based on offense maybe AJRII mixes it up and hires a semi-obscure young OC

I have no clue but here is a preseason list of HC candidates, some of whom already may have faded as their teams had a rotten September

NFL Head Coaches-To-Be: Seven Coordinators To Watch in 2018

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/28/nfl-coordinators-to-watch-james-bettcher-matt-lafleur-george-edwards

That is not an impressive list based on recent on field performances.

[Steeldude]

OK. Now it's time for you to drop us a name or two that you want to replace Tomlin. You want to offer it to Haley? Every thread you have a post saying the same thing. What is your solution if we fire Tomlin. Tomlin leaving doesn't solve anything by itself. There has to be a next step. What do you suggest? The pressure of a name.

Because in every thread the obvious is deliberately overlooked. Dupree needs to be let go at the end of the season too, but I don't know who to replace him with. Does that mean he should be kept?

HC prospects aren't as easily evaluated as players. At this point I would give Munchak the job over Tomlin. Cutting Tomlin does solve one thing. It gives the Steelers a chance to turn things around. I never said other things don't need to be addressed as well.

Do you want to keep Tomlin?

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He doesn't have a name or a real solution to any of this. He never has.


Still bending over for Tomlin. I guess we can change punters. That will fix it.

Any coach would do at this point.

[Mojouw]

Because in every thread the obvious is deliberately overlooked. Dupree needs to be let go at the end of the season too, but I don't know who to replace him with. Does that mean he should be kept?

HC prospects aren't as easily evaluated as players. At this point I would give Munchak the job over Tomlin. Cutting Tomlin does solve one thing. It gives the Steelers a chance to turn things around. I never said other things don't need to be addressed as well.

Do you want to keep Tomlin?

- - - Updated - - -



Still bending over for Tomlin. I guess we can change punters. That will fix it.

Any coach would do at this point.

So your best idea is to replace Tomlin with a guy who by his own admission was not a good head coach? Who had a losing record?

Letting Dupree go is the beginning of an idea, but not really a fully formed thought. A fully thought out idea would be to NOT pay him at the high option amount. Attempt to negotiate an incentive laden deal and bring him to camp in an honest competition with a series of other OLB players.

Every single post is a one sentence knee-jerk reaction that offers no ideas or conversation topics.

And we will leave alone that entire concept of what it says about you as a person that the worst insult you can think to level is blatantly homophobic.

[DesertSteel]

I'd prefer Munchak to Tomlin also. He only had three years and went 22-26 with a bad team.

[Mojouw]

I'd prefer Munchak to Tomlin also. He only had three years and went 22-26 with a bad team.

I dunno. I just went over the rosters really quickly from those Titans teams - and it didn't look terrible. Chris Johnson in his early days, a later career Hasselback, some nice pieces on defense. Not sure that is a 6-10 roster -- but I don't remember details either.

Point is, nothing in Munchak's record indicates that he would be able to do anything different.

Say that those Titans' rosters were pretty bad. If he wasn't able to get marginal NFL players to perform well enough to win then, how is he going to take marginal NFL players and get them to perform well now? Or if he couldn't get production out of "raw athletes" like Jared Cook, Kenny Britt, Derrick Morgan, or Akeem Ayers how would he translate his coaching style to get production out of the "raw athletes" littering the Steelers roster?

There are many critical and troubling questions surrounding the 2018 Pittsburgh Steelers. "Mike Munchak" is the answer to only one of them -- who will make the offensive line a team strength.

[DesertSteel]

I dunno. I just went over the rosters really quickly from those Titans teams - and it didn't look terrible. Chris Johnson in his early days, a later career Hasselback, some nice pieces on defense. Not sure that is a 6-10 roster -- but I don't remember details either.

Point is, nothing in Munchak's record indicates that he would be able to do anything different.

Say that those Titans' rosters were pretty bad. If he wasn't able to get marginal NFL players to perform well enough to win then, how is he going to take marginal NFL players and get them to perform well now? Or if he couldn't get production out of "raw athletes" like Jared Cook, Kenny Britt, Derrick Morgan, or Akeem Ayers how would he translate his coaching style to get production out of the "raw athletes" littering the Steelers roster?

There are many critical and troubling questions surrounding the 2018 Pittsburgh Steelers. "Mike Munchak" is the answer to only one of them -- who will make the offensive line a team strength.
I'd prefere MM to MT, but I'd really start from scratch and blow all of it up. MM would probably be the only guy I'd offer to stay. I'm afraid that Tomlin is turning into Jeff Fischer.

[Born2Steel]

Because in every thread the obvious is deliberately overlooked. Dupree needs to be let go at the end of the season too, but I don't know who to replace him with. Does that mean he should be kept?

HC prospects aren't as easily evaluated as players. At this point I would give Munchak the job over Tomlin. Cutting Tomlin does solve one thing. It gives the Steelers a chance to turn things around. I never said other things don't need to be addressed as well.

Do you want to keep Tomlin?

- - - Updated - - -



Still bending over for Tomlin. I guess we can change punters. That will fix it.

Any coach would do at this point.

I can completely agree with you on the personnel. I have said since the draft this is a bad defense with no LB corps. We tried to get Hightower and he didn't sign. We wanted to get an ILB in the draft but none were available. Dupree is not where we want to be. But he is better than what is backing him up. I like playing him next to VW inside and rushing Watt and 3 DL. That is a plan.
Where I disagree is the 'fire everyone' mentality. Unless there is a plan in place that never works. Example...Tomlin gets let go because Munchak is made head coach, Fichtner stays as OC, and Butler stays as DC. Now we have a plan. Only an example. Fire Tomlin, fire Butler, fire Fichtner, fire Porter, keep Munch as OL coach....is not a plan.

[Fire Goodell]

in my opinion:

1 - Haley shouldn't have been fired last year. So Ben doesn't like the guy, who cares, we're in the business of winning and not being golf buddies. Haley's offense hung 42 points on Jacksonville which is getting it done
2 - Instead they let him walk and didn't do jack about the guy who gave up 45 points at home to a middle of the road offense.
3 - So we promote Fitchner who's nothing more than a yes-man to Ben, which makes the offense much more predictable.

So what we're stuck with, is a defense where everyone is running around like chickens with their heads cut off. The most predictable offense in the league, which defenses seem to easily adjust to hence the scoreless 2nd halves. Ben Roethlisberger has never been a student of the game, mostly a gunslinger who got by on arm strength and talent. Now however, that level of talent is dwindling which is resulting in less heroics and highly inconsistent play. I don't think the guy is a top 5 QB anymore.

We partially got ourselves in this mess by firing Haley, and not getting rid of Butler. Now who's responsible for this dumpster fire, Colbert or Tomlin?

[Mojouw]

I think you guys are not wrong, but you need to take a deep breath and like count to 10 or something. Also watch some other football.

The Steelers are bad right now. That sucks. But they are not the worst offense in the league. Maybe the worst defense - but KC and San Fran will have something to say about that before the year is through. And maybe the Raiders as well.

I could go out and get links and video and pics that underscore the point, but would anyone care?

Maybe sometime on Wednesday or Thursday everyone will finish shouting wildly exaggerated things and trying to see who can sound the the most upset. That will be the same time that multiple websites, podcasts, and radio shows start to release detailed breakdowns of the game. Lo and behold, people will calm down and start to think about what actually happened not what they felt like happened.

Until then...resume saying ridiculous things.

[Cyphon25]

I think you guys are not wrong, but you need to take a deep breath and like count to 10 or something. Also watch some other football.

The Steelers are bad right now. That sucks. But they are not the worst offense in the league. Maybe the worst defense - but KC and San Fran will have something to say about that before the year is through. And maybe the Raiders as well.

I could go out and get links and video and pics that underscore the point, but would anyone care?

Maybe sometime on Wednesday or Thursday everyone will finish shouting wildly exaggerated things and trying to see who can sound the the most upset. That will be the same time that multiple websites, podcasts, and radio shows start to release detailed breakdowns of the game. Lo and behold, people will calm down and start to think about what actually happened not what they felt like happened.

Until then...resume saying ridiculous things.

I was saying similar-ish on the Depot just the other day.

For as bad as our defense looks if you look around the NFL defenses are mostly bad on the whole. Even the Vikings and Rams gave up over 30 to each other. So what you need to win this year is a great offense and a defense who can at least show up at times. On paper we have both. The offense goes without saying where it SHOULD be and the defense while mostly terrible, has made some timely stops and was strong against the Ravens in the redzone yesterday.

The obvious issue is that games aren't played on paper and our offense keeps crapping the bed. If they were played on paper, I'd say even where we sit now you could make a semi-coherent argument that we should still be considered a top team.

[GoSlash27]

The problems I'm seeing right now are fundamentals, execution, and communication. And yeah, that means it's bad coaching. Since it's happening in all 3 phases, it's on Tomlin.

This is not to say that Tomlin needs replaced in order to fix the problem. Merely that his approach to training needs to change until the team is back on track. Training needs to revert to a more "summer camp" style this week. More of a focus on technique and fundamentals.
Ben shouldn't get a vet's day off this week. He needs to work on his release, vision, and play selection. We need a full pads practice this week. The O line needs to work on their run blocking and our d line needs work on shedding blocks and containment. Our secondary... well, you know.
If it's me, I'd do what Cowher did back in '05: Sit all the players down and have them grade themselves in these last 4 games, have them list what they need to improve, and then focus on those.

We have a lot of problems stemming from fundamentals which creates inconsistency. This is why (imo) we can't get off the field on D, can't sustain drives, and can't flip the field. We keep alternating between occasional "splash" plays and getting beaten most of the time. Tomlin has them practicing like they know how to play football. They need to start practicing like they *don't* know how to play football until they can demonstrate 4 quarters of consistent play.

My $0.02
-Slashy

[AtlantaDan]

But they are not the worst offense in the league. Maybe the worst defense - but KC and San Fran will have something to say about that before the year is through. And maybe the Raiders as well.

The Falcons also may have a say :chuckle:

Falcons-Steelers matchup Sunday is the 76 Steelers v 85 Bears of defensive matchups, only for epically bad defenses

[Rotorhead]

My solution, let it play out, get your young guys as much experience as possible and try to find what works and what doesn’t. Our offense is probably still ok right now, so we will once again be drafting a lot of defense, but hopefully higher to get a quality OLB (to pair with Watt) and another CB. After the season I am for getting rid of Tomlin and Butler, but at this point I don’t know who for. I will day one thing, if they would have really pursued Mack, we would probably have zero losses. We could have done that (yeah we would have been in cap hell for the next couple years, but that is our honest SB window. I am usually happy without any big free agent signings and building through the draft, but since we have struck out on 2 of our last 3 high OLB picks, we needed a rare big signing.

[GBMelBlount]

Solution on offense: Ben needs to play inspired. That is all. Usually this is when we are the underdogs, losing badly or at the point of elimination.

Solution for Defense: Ben needs to score 35 points per game.