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View Full Version : Keith Butler Admits Steelers Had Two Different Coverages On Kelce Touchdown



Shoes
09-20-2018, 07:12 PM
James Harrison said a large part of miscommunication in 2017 came from the Pittsburgh Steelers defense playing two different coverages. That problem evidently isn’t solved based on what Keith Butler admitted in speaking with reporters this afternoon

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/09/keith-butler-admits-steelers-had-two-different-coverages-on-kelce-touchdown/

Edman
09-20-2018, 07:16 PM
I'm not angry or upset, I'm not even humored as a defense mechanism.

Right now, I'm just waiting for Butler to lose his job. Why they thought that he's was a good fit in Pittsburgh after the Jacksonville debacle is beyond me, but hey, maybe it needs to happen.

teegre
09-20-2018, 07:21 PM
Remember the Gay Meter?

We something clever like that for Butler.

Edman
09-20-2018, 07:23 PM
Remember the Gay Meter?

We something clever like that for Butler.

"The Butler Did It" Counter.

Every time the Defense looks unprepared, confused, or out of whack.

"The Butler Did It" +1.

GoSlash27
09-20-2018, 08:00 PM
I'm not even going to argue the point with Butler. We have an established pattern where either 1) a DB leaves his assignment or 2) the DBs don't seem to know what their assignment is.
This tends to manifest itself when the senior DB is out of the game. It still comes back to Butler for failing to prep the players. There must always be a chain of command; a single player calling the plays. What he says goes, even if it's the wrong coverage. Likewise, all players must understand their assignment and the assignments of their neighbors so there is is no confusion. That way, the entire defense doesn't hinge on the health of one player.

Butler has failed in the "command and control" aspect of his job. Not saying he needs fired, necessarily... but he needs to do a better job at this.

pczach
09-20-2018, 08:03 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/aZ3LDBs1ExsE8/giphy.gif

BlackAndGold
09-20-2018, 08:22 PM
It's either Butler's lack of abilty to call plays, or they're putting too many dumb players on the field. It's likely both.

stillers4me
09-20-2018, 08:25 PM
Playing two defenses at the same time.....that takes some skill.

Dwinsgames
09-20-2018, 08:31 PM
It's either Butler's lack of abilty to call plays, or they're putting too many dumb players on the field. It's likely both.


said it so many times in so many threads ...

Listen to Butler talk in any interview or draft pick press conference ... he is SLOW to process a thought and get it out .... and thats a no pressure situation

now take that same basic inability to get out a thought into play calling ....

now consider he has 7-10 seconds to make a call because once he does the green dot has to relay that call to the defense on the field ....

my argument is Butler takes to long to make the call and then the green dot doesn't have time to get the call in and for all to hear it ... so

summation ....

Butler sucks
Team doesnt get the call
green dot and guys around him are playing the called play ... everyone else if left guessing because they didn't get the relayed msg
opposition then scores points

BlackAndGold
09-20-2018, 08:37 PM
said it so many times in so many threads ...

Listen to Butler talk in any interview or draft pick press conference ... he is SLOW to process a thought and get it out .... and thats a no pressure situation

now take that same basic inability to get out a thought into play calling ....

now consider he has 7-10 seconds to make a call because once he does the green dot has to relay that call to the defense on the field ....

my argument is Butler takes to long to make the call and then the green dot doesn't have time to get the call in and for all to hear it ... so

summation ....

Butler sucks
Team doesnt get the call
green dot and guys around him are playing the called play ... everyone else if left guessing because they didn't get the relayed msg
opposition then scores points

It's just a mess that I'm tired of seeing. Many thought Mitchell was a part of the issue, and.... it's still happening.

If it continues he should be gone. Let Bradley, or better yet Tomlin call the plays

Shoes
09-20-2018, 09:01 PM
It's either Butler's lack of abilty to call plays, or they're putting too many dumb players on the field. It's likely both.



Playing two defenses at the same time.....that takes some skill.

Sent from my SM-T807V using Tapatalk


:lol:

st33lersguy
09-20-2018, 09:02 PM
The big mystery of 2018, why wasn't Keith Butler fired last offseason?

Shoes
09-20-2018, 09:05 PM
The big mystery of 2018, why wasn't Keith Butler fired last offseason?

Because the Rooneys promised him the DC job and they would look like dumb asses if they did. So, this will continue until they find another scapegoat.

st33lersguy
09-20-2018, 09:05 PM
It's either Butler's lack of abilty to call plays, or they're putting too many dumb players on the field. It's likely both.

It is both, Butler is incompetent, but you also have complete idiot Artie Burns as one of the corners and Bud Dupree whose knowledge of football is limited to running up the field and getting pushed away from the QB

teegre
09-20-2018, 09:13 PM
"The Butler Did It" Counter.

Every time the Defense looks unprepared, confused, or out of whack.

"The Butler Did It" +1.

It has to be spelled Buttler though.

86WARD
09-20-2018, 09:56 PM
So basically none of the problems from last season have been fixed this season. Thanks for the confirmation...

Fire Goodell
09-20-2018, 11:01 PM
Remember the Gay Meter?

We something clever like that for Butler.

The butt meter?

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-21-2018, 09:08 AM
It has to be spelled Buttler though.

I like where you guys are going with this. Can we measure the Buttler meter in increments of "Jeeves"?

I'd say on a scale of 1-10 Jeeves, that Butler is currently around 7. Another terrible performance this week and he could climb to 9 Jeeves, which is risk of imminent dismissal. If his defense balls out, then he may take things down to 6Jeeves.

- - - Updated - - -

Or we could use Benson, Alfred or Belvedere's as well.

Mojouw
09-21-2018, 10:50 AM
I'm all in support of the meter. But I really think we need to resign ourselves to the fact that Butler is here to stay - at least through the season.

No one else on the defensive staff could get promoted if he is dismissed. Frazier and Bradley are in Year 1. Porter and Olsavsky are not DC material. So that leaves Tomlin. If you think "distractions" are an issue now, imagine a sideline where a HC was trying to call defensive plays and monitor his first year OC?

So that just leaves the current set-up. It is what it is.

Steeldude
09-21-2018, 10:55 AM
It's just a mess that I'm tired of seeing. Many thought Mitchell was a part of the issue, and.... it's still happening.

If it continues he should be gone. Let Bradley, or better yet Tomlin call the plays


Please, do not have Tomlin call plays. That was a disaster last season.

Steeldude
09-21-2018, 11:06 AM
Getting rid of Butler won't solve the problem. The team will remain confused, unprepared and undisciplined.

I guess we can blame the punter.

steelreserve
09-21-2018, 11:18 AM
Remember the Gay Meter?

We something clever like that for Butler.

Why not just use the same thing but with a lower-case "g"

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-21-2018, 11:25 AM
I'm all in support of the meter. But I really think we need to resign ourselves to the fact that Butler is here to stay - at least through the season.

No one else on the defensive staff could get promoted if he is dismissed. Frazier and Bradley are in Year 1. Porter and Olsavsky are not DC material. So that leaves Tomlin. If you think "distractions" are an issue now, imagine a sideline where a HC was trying to call defensive plays and monitor his first year OC?

So that just leaves the current set-up. It is what it is.

I agree that too many new coaches around to let Butler go. I personally am still not sure Fichtner knows what he is doing as an OC either.

AtlantaDan
09-21-2018, 11:33 AM
I personally am still not sure Fichtner knows what he is doing as an OC either.

Having the OC be the QB's caddy works if the QB is Peyton Manning in his prime - we shall see if that works out for the Steelers

The opening series in the first quarter debacle of the KC game were not encouraging

86WARD
09-21-2018, 12:30 PM
Talent just isn’t there at this stage but I’ll be honest, I’d feel better with Bradley managing this group than I do with Butler at the moment.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-21-2018, 12:32 PM
Having the OC be the QB's caddy works if the QB is Peyton Manning in his prime - we shall see if that works out for the Steelers

The opening series in the first quarter debacle of the KC game were not encouraging
Agreed, but there was a time in the KC game where they showed Fichtner on the sidelines talking to a player and he looked more panicked than a guy that had a plan in mind of how to adapt. He looked about as confident as the albino kid that was caddy for Happy Gilmore.

Count Steeler
09-21-2018, 01:24 PM
Let's really raise some hell and let Joey take the reigns.

AtlantaDan
09-21-2018, 01:36 PM
Agreed, but there was a time in the KC game where they showed Fichtner on the sidelines talking to a player and he looked more panicked than a guy that had a plan in mind of how to adapt. He looked about as confident as the albino kid that was caddy for Happy Gilmore.

I was at the game so I did not see that (or AB acting out on the sidelines)

Instead I watched the Keystone Kops fire drill of trying to get the correct defensive personnel on and off the field along with players acting out after yet another blown coverage - that looked far worse in person than what I have seen on TV

st33lersguy
09-21-2018, 01:39 PM
Why not just hire an outside guy to be DC? Teams do it all the time? They don't have to promote someone from within (and they probably shouldn't either)

stillers4me
09-21-2018, 01:45 PM
This season is probably a wash, but keep in mind the noticable difference Munch made with the O line.

86WARD
09-21-2018, 01:48 PM
Let's really raise some hell and let Joey take the reigns.

I would looove it. Shit would get sideways and real crazy real quick!!

fansince'76
09-21-2018, 01:51 PM
I would looove it. Shit would get sideways and real crazy real quick!!

Have a feeling it would be more of the same. I don't really see the LBs being coached up.

Not an indictment of Porter either - Mean Joe was at best a mediocre DL coach as well.

Time to get some new blood at DC from outside the organization, IMO.

tube517
09-21-2018, 01:52 PM
Why not just hire an outside guy to be DC? Teams do it all the time? They don't have to promote someone from within (and they probably shouldn't either)

The Steelers looked outside (thank God) and got Munchak. Why not for DC? Question is, who?

86WARD
09-21-2018, 01:53 PM
Have a feeling it would be more of the same. I don't really see the LBs being coached up.

Not an indictment of Porter either - Mean Joe was at best a mediocre DL coach as well.

Lol. I’m not talking about the coaching I’m just talking about the drama and mayhem that would ensue on and off field.

fansince'76
09-21-2018, 01:55 PM
Lol. I’m not talking about the coaching I’m just talking about the drama and mayhem that would ensue on and off field.

:chuckle:

Mojouw
09-21-2018, 01:58 PM
The Steelers looked outside (thank God) and got Munchak. Why not for DC? Question is, who?

Jim Leonhard - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Leonhard

Runs an attacking 3-4 at UW and his guys play hard, rally to the ball, and seem fundamentally sound.

I realize that I am highly biased towards all things UW, but still watch them play sometime. Especially the quality snaps he gets out of his LBs and CBs.

86WARD
09-21-2018, 02:29 PM
Jim Leonhard - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Leonhard

Runs an attacking 3-4 at UW and his guys play hard, rally to the ball, and seem fundamentally sound.

I realize that I am highly biased towards all things UW, but still watch them play sometime. Especially the quality snaps he gets out of his LBs and CBs.

Is that the Leonard that played for the Bills and Ravens? I think he played elsewhere as well?

Mojouw
09-21-2018, 02:33 PM
Is that the Leonard that played for the Bills and Ravens? I think he played elsewhere as well?

The same.

steelreserve
09-21-2018, 04:03 PM
Lol. I’m not talking about the coaching I’m just talking about the drama and mayhem that would ensue on and off field.

If you think yelling at each other on the sidelines after another botched play leading to an 80-yard touchdown for the opponents is entertaining, I guess. Otherwise I'd prefer all the drama and mayhem to be on the field or at the strip club.

BlackAndGold
09-21-2018, 05:59 PM
Is that the Leonard that played for the Bills and Ravens? I think he played elsewhere as well?

Played for the Jets during the Revis Island era.

Shoes
09-21-2018, 06:53 PM
Have a feeling it would be more of the same. I don't really see the LBs being coached up.

Not an indictment of Porter either - Mean Joe was at best a mediocre DL coach as well.

Time to get some new blood at DC from outside the organization, IMO.


Agreed 100% It's ok to hire from inside but at least bring in some compitition for all the positions available. There's a very good chance you'll find someone better than the homegrown buck tooth, 4 string banjo players in house.

Butch
09-21-2018, 08:10 PM
Agreed 100% It's ok to hire from inside but at least bring in some compitition for all the positions available. There's a very good chance you'll find someone better than the homegrown buck tooth, 4 string banjo players in house.

What do you have against Banjo??? I loved this intro.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjYWVia5bAM

Shoes
09-21-2018, 08:22 PM
What do you have against Banjo??? I loved this intro.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjYWVia5bAM


I'm speaking of a closed clan mindset above. As for the banjo, love them when played well.

The late great Mike Seeger & Doc Watson are two great American Root Music icons that I love. Incidentally, Mike Seeger was the younger brother of Pete Seeger




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh5ommi2SRY



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9YRYzRwqXc

GBMelBlount
09-21-2018, 08:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meCZ5hWNRFU

Steeldude
09-21-2018, 08:26 PM
Let's really raise some hell and let Joey take the reigns.

Sarcasm?

st33lersguy
09-22-2018, 09:06 AM
I'd take Jim Leonhard. I always like how hard Wisconsin's defense plays. There will be a risk in making a college coordinator a first time NFL coordinator, but then again there is risk of making a position coach a first time coordinator as well, and a having a previous defensive coordinator does not guarantee success either, so yeah why not Jim Leonhard.

P.S. I still remember his long punt return in the 08 AFC Championship game late in the first half that helped get Baltimore back in that game and swing momentum towards them before Troy's INT

Count Steeler
09-25-2018, 06:56 PM
Sarcasm?

Dripping.

Steeler-in-west
09-25-2018, 09:03 PM
All I know is that Haden is the only player i notice that plays the ball in coverages, the others like Burns, Sensebaugh, Sutton, are playing the receiver and have their backs facing the oncoming pass; they have no idea where the ball is they're just chasing after the receiver and sticking their hands in the air hoping to distract the receiver - just doesn't look good.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-25-2018, 10:33 PM
All I know is that Haden is the only player i notice that plays the ball in coverages, the others like Burns, Sensebaugh, Sutton, are playing the receiver and have their backs facing the oncoming pass; they have no idea where the ball is they're just chasing after the receiver and sticking their hands in the air hoping to distract the receiver - just doesn't look good.

If the CB is watching the QB and the football, then how are they going to know where the WR is running, so that they can cover the WR?

Textbook CB coverage is to backpedal until the WR makes up the cushion and then turn and run with the WR, with their eyes focused on the receiver. Then, when the WR hands go up for the reception, the CB is taught to put their hands between the WR's hands and then turn their head to the QB to look for the ball and avoid a PI call.

In game 1, Cam Sutton had a pass breakup on the sideline vs Josh Gordon and it was exactly that, textbook CB play. He had his back to the QB and was running with Gordon, but when Gordon put his hands up to catch the football he put his right hand between Gordon's and broke up the pass.

Steeler-in-west
09-25-2018, 10:50 PM
If the CB is watching the QB and the football, then how are they going to know where the WR is running, so that they can cover the WR?

Textbook CB coverage is to backpedal until the WR makes up the cushion and then turn and run with the WR, with their eyes focused on the receiver. Then, when the WR hands go up for the reception, the CB is taught to put their hands between the WR's hands and then turn their head to the QB to look for the ball and avoid a PI call.

In game 1, Cam Sutton had a pass breakup on the sideline vs Josh Gordon and it was exactly that, textbook CB play. He had his back to the QB and was running with Gordon, but when Gordon put his hands up to catch the football he put his right hand between Gordon's and broke up the pass.

yeah, but I don’t see them turning their heads when the receiver stretches his arms out or better yet when they see his eyes looking up for the ball, you don’t turn around at the right time, your more likely to get called for PI, like you said, and also, they’ll never get a chance to make a play on the ball and get a pic.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-25-2018, 11:03 PM
yeah, but I don’t see them turning their heads when the receiver stretches his arms out or better yet when they see his eyes looking up for the ball, you don’t turn around at the right time, your more likely to get called for PI, like you said, and also, they’ll never get a chance to make a play on the ball and get a pic.

Very true, but sometimes you don't have time to get your head around, because you are catching up to the receiver. I saw Bostic make a pass breakup on Howard last night in the seam where he did that very thing....he put his hand up when Howard put his hands up to catch the football. Bostic didn't have time to turn his head around because Howard outran him down the field.

Sutton plays very close to the WR and has good feet and change of direction IMO. Burns doesn't have as good short area quickness and feet, but rather long speed and he likes to turn his hips and play in "bail" coverage, so I get what you are saying. Sensabaugh likes to play bail technique a lot from what I see too, but I think he gives a lot of cushion because he doesn't have the quick change of direction or makeup speed long.

Short of it is, I think Sensabaugh is the #5 CB, I think Burns has #2 talent, but #5 technique and awareness. I think Hayden, Sutton and Hilton are the best CB combination the team has.